- This topic has 71 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 1 week, 6 days ago by Tatyana.
March 18, 2021 at 17:19 #69125ET
“That last sentence is a classic. It’s as if two people who’ve both taken a new kind of pill at different ends of the country have both been found the next day with their heads turned round back to front, and then somebody says that since there are very few cases of that happening to people who haven’t taken the pill then we can’t say whether there’s a link.”
If only two people had the pill and had their heads turned round back to front then you’d be right to be cautious (
scared out of your wits) if you were the next in line for that pill. If however 1 million people had been given that pill and only two had their heads turnrd round back to front and the other 999,998 people were fine you’d be justified not being too bothered about taking that pill. If head back-to-front syndrome has a background incidence of 2 in a million in those who have never had that pill…………then that pill doesn’t increase your risk.
C’mon N_, you know as well as anyone how statistics work.
March 18, 2021 at 17:41 #69126SA
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by modbot.
Good news from the EMA
COVID-19: European regulator says Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is ‘safe and effective’
The EMA says the Oxford jab is not linked to an overall risk of blood clots – but is still investigating a rare clotting disorder.
Thursday 18 March 2021 18:08, UKMarch 18, 2021 at 18:32 #69132glenn_uk
SA: “The same say would apply if several people who have had the vaccine were run over by a bus the next day, you wouldn’t ascribe this to the vaccine.”
Actually, he would. You don’t hear any of this nonsense about whether they had blood clots “with” the vaccine or “from” the vaccine, do you? Of course not. This particular bit of sophistry only works on one side of the equation when there’s an agenda to be worked.
Compare with the opposite approach when it comes to people dying “with” Covid-19 (even when they died from its obvious symptoms), pretending they didn’t die “from” it. There’s a definite agenda with these people, and it ain’t to get at the truth.
It also seems like the vaccine has now been approved by the EU. Bummer eh, Mystic N_eg? Never mind, carry on working to undermine it and that will discourage people from taking the vaccine. A longer game, but you have got to work hard on behalf of the virus!March 18, 2021 at 21:45 #69136Clark
N_, you are parading your innumeracy and flaunting your anti-scientific prejudice. You say not to trust “eckshpurts”, but also say this:
– “Do” [blah blah rhetorical blah] “before anybody should even consider the possibility that it might be safer NOT to accept this vaccine?”
Well why don’t you do the sums yourself then? It’s not hard. In fact, a wild guestimate will do. If, following millions of vaccinations there have been tens of cases of blood clots including a handful of deaths, whereas millions of cases of covid have resulted in tens of thousands of deaths, then even if all these blood clots are caused exclusively by the AZ vaccine, and the vaccine is say only 10% effective, it’s still hundreds of times safer to take the vaccine than not to.
The fact that you neglect to do the maths and instead leap to misleading rhetoric marks you out as an anti-vaxxer.
Then there’s this:
– “It is a fact that the government are pushing vaccination even on those who are known to be immune because like the prime minister himself…”
This is wrong on two counts:
1) The experience in Manaus, Brazil demonstrates that covid often does not impart immunity.
2) Vaccination stimulates far stronger antibody production than covid itself does.
And you’re not even honest. You dismiss “eckshpurts”, but parrot what they say if they happen to reinforce your preferred message. You do precisely what you’re accusing others of doing, and that’s hypocritical.March 19, 2021 at 21:47 #69186Kempe
Vaccination now being resumed.March 19, 2021 at 22:36 #69189ET
Yeah, good for all concerned. Now could EU and UK sort out the vaccine contractual stuff and do it quietly please. It doesn’t need to become Uk Vs EU.March 19, 2021 at 23:30 #69195Clark
Come on Kempe, own up; you’re obviously just an agent for the depopulation agenda 😀March 20, 2021 at 12:19 #69216Mockingbird
The masks are here for a very long time, not because of a virus which is no longer a danger to the vast majority of
people, who have either been vaccinated or the majority who have contracted the virus without symptoms or very mild symptoms. It’s a form of control to shut people up and constantly remind them of a virus which imo has been exaggerated to instil fear by Government and media working in tandem. The economies of the world are in real jeopardy from these lockdown measures,
but most people are oblivious to the poverty, suffering and restriction of our freedoms which is going to happen for years if not decades to come.
Fauci spars with Sen. Rand Paul: ‘Masks are not theater‘ (YouTube, 1m)March 20, 2021 at 12:49 #69217glenn_uk
Masks are just a form of control, eh? Fascinating that every government, of every persuasion, should suddenly have leapt on this as a good thing. Even more fascinating that those that having invested so much in face recognition capabilities, decided to impose a non-essential measure that makes it useless.
Fascinating too, that every government just decided they’d like to damage their economies. Quite amazing that All Governments (inc) managed to get the medical establishments in every country to go along with the scam!
Totally amazing too, that All Governments (inc) decided they would like to make life miserable for their citizens for no reason whatsoever, the opposition all decided to get in on it too…
Quite, quite, astonishing. But wait! There is one much more obvious and simple explanation – that Covid deniers are a small subset of the population who know next to nothing, are terrified, easily fooled dupes who leap onto any half-baked conspiracy theory and think science is a hoax. Surely that couldn’t be the case? Naah… that’s far too far-fetched.March 20, 2021 at 13:07 #69218Mockingbird
Masks are a form of control. The New World order is a fallacy?
Gordon Brown New World Order speech (YouTube, 2m 8s)March 20, 2021 at 13:10 #69221Mockingbird
Dear oh dear. The New World order is a fallacy!
George H W Bush New World Order speech (YouTube, 1m 13s)March 20, 2021 at 13:25 #69223glenn_uk
Dear or dear… this isn’t just going to be a “dueling youtubes” fest, I sincerely hope?
Node, sorry, I mean ‘Mockingbird’ – don’t forget “Agendah 21”, “The Great Ree-set”, Bill Gates, Contrails, 5G… come on, you know you want to
[ Mod: It would be wrong to assume that ‘Mockingbird’ is another Node sockpuppet. Mockingbird has used a consistent email address (albeit with a series of names separated by long gaps) for several years. ]March 20, 2021 at 13:42 #69229ET
There has always been a “world order” of some form or other if you mean how nations conduct their relations with one another. Nations have had relations with one another for thousands of years. There was a “world order” in Roman times, Egyptian times, classical Greek times, colonial times, stoneage times. There weren’t nations as we see them today in stoneage times but there were relatons between groups of stoneage humans amounting to their “world order.” My bedroom has a bedroom order (
disorder), my kitchen a kitchen order.
That the current “world order” is far too much predicated on the interests of private capital and corporate interests is probably not going to be disputed by many here. What exactly is your point n presenting those two videos which I’ll bet everyone here has seen many times? What exactly is your argument? Is it that a “world order” in the sense already mentioned exists? Well, cheers, thanks for pointing out the obvious.
What changes to the current “world order” do you think ought to be made?March 20, 2021 at 14:33 #69231Mockingbird
You ridicule me. Why? You quoted the Great Reset by the World Economic Forum, not me.
Why would you want to own nothing which I assume you have worked hard for and paid taxes?
I would like to pass on my small hard owned wealth to my child and future grandchildren. Who wouldn’t?
“You will own nothing and be happy!”
Someone is going to own the land and property you own and millions of others … who will it be?
Heinzelmann Heinz – WEF by 2030 You’ll own nothing And you’ll be happy (YouTube, 1m 29s)March 20, 2021 at 16:20 #69242Clark
– “not because of a virus which is no longer a danger to the vast majority of people”
Covid is a danger to everyone because it spreads so fast that it overwhelms health services, turning hospitals into centres of infection and thereby closing them to the general public, and infecting and killing the medical staff.
“Anti-lockdown” arguments focussed exclusively on the death rate, but covid-19’s death rate is highly variable depending upon availability of medical treatment. For every one hundred people requiring hospital care (eg. simple oxygen support), ten require intensive care (eg. invasive ventilation), of whom between five (at first) and three (later, when understanding of treatment had improved) die.
Now run those figures for the whole population but with no social restrictions. Infection prevalence was doubling every week in the first wave, and every fortnight in the second. As soon as intensive care is full, nearly ten out of ten requiring it die, ie. the death rate doubles or triples. As ordinary ward beds fill and oxygen support becomes unavailable, more patients progress to requiring intensive care, but it’s already saturated.
Meanwhile the medical staff are falling ill any dying, so healthcare provision decreases still further.
Covid is still a danger because vaccination can’t be administered nearly as fast as covid can spread. This is obvious if you think about it; covid can be passed on anywhere, from anyone to anyone, but vaccination can only be administered by trained staff at specific distribution centres. There’s time for another wave yet before vaccination can protect the population.March 20, 2021 at 16:52 #69245glenn_uk
@Mockingbird: Don’t take it personally. It’s just tough to take any of this seriously, when we’ve seen it time after time. Someone comes along with a bunch of youtube videos saying, “Ooh – Ohh! Have you seen this?”
People – like yourself – think you’ve unearthed some _massive_ conspiracy which everyone else is just too dumb to have noticed. This conspiracy is so overwhelmingly large, that just listing the various agencies and professions who would all have to be “in on it” would take many pages. the individuals would run to millions. But we’ve all been too dumb to notice, and “they” have it sewn up so tightly, nothing has really leaked out.
But wait! A couple of national leaders blew the gaff, they said the Secret Words out loud! Those damned fools, didn’t anyone tell them it was supposed to be secret? Even the lowest hospital janitor or gravedigger is “in on it” and hides the secret that it’s all a hoax, yet Brown and Bush forgot and said it in a speech!
Also, “they” control everything, pulling us all around with the Grand Plot, but – gosh, darn – “they” can’t stop a few youtube videos. Drat and blast, after all that planning!
Come on, be serious.March 20, 2021 at 17:18 #69248Clark
– “It’s a form of control to shut people up and constantly remind them of a virus which imo has been exaggerated to instil fear by Government and media working in tandem.”
Mockingbird’s George Bush speech, 00:43:
– “The scariest part of his speech”
Mockingbird, you attract ridicule because, like N_, you seem oblivious to your own hypocrisy. You seize upon a phrase such as “new world order” or “you will own nothing”, and then link snippets of politicians waffling – of which there must be literally years of dreary material to cherry-pick from – and you spread alarmism about it, while deriding a simple, cheap and harmless infection reduction measure as a form of alarmism.
Yes, pandemics harm economy; what the hell do you expect?
Mockingbird, if these YouTube clips scare you so much, you could just stop watching them. Try doing the Concentration Upon The Breath meditation; I find it to be really helpful for anxiety. The times we live in are scary enough without freaking yourself out over allegedly sinister import allegedly hidden in plain sight (cue male voice choir) to allegedly give alleged co-conspirators a thrill as they hint at their allegedly secret world domination plans (cue trombones).March 22, 2021 at 03:57 #69310SA
Ah but you forget, these ‘leaks’ by some statesmen is deliberate, hidden in plain site. In fact the Plandemic was clearly predicted and announced even before it happened. The president of Tanzania has been assassinated because he did not conform to this ‘world order’. He was one of those who saw the light and showed that the PCR is meaningless because papayas and goats also tested positive. Apparently Lukachenko is the next target. If you have missed such nuggets, you have not been reading certain ‘progressive’ websites who have totally exposed this huge conspiracy.March 23, 2021 at 02:05 #69355N_
@ET – Thanks for the link to the Moon of Alabama article. The author is quite right that there is international competition between multinationals for contracts with the various states in the world. This is an especially powerful causal factor when it’s Big Pharma and other “health”-related interests that are concerned, given that in countries such as the US and Britain the “health” sector is about five times as big as the “defence” sector and we know how important weapons contracts and possible weapons contracts are in international relations. I was concentrating on Astrazeneca not because I think they’re more evil than Pfizer or any other competitor but because one has to start somewhere, and it’s true that the new-fangled mRNA vaccines which stimulate healthy cells to produce “unarmed” virus-like particles are especially scary right from the start, more so than vector vaccines. However, for some reason the author tends to assume that the rulers of Russia are somehow less a bunch of gangsters than the rulers of the US and Britain which is not so. They’re all as bad as each other.
He or she writes that “to persuade Brazil to reject [Sputnik] is criminal behaviour that has near genocidal consequences”. The situation in Brazil appears to be worsening, but the reported death rate “with Covid-19” per 1 million population, although higher than it has ever been in that country (and on a curve that has been climbing steadily and steeply for about a month) is still only about HALF of what it was in Britain in January. Nonetheless, the position in Brazil is very frightening when one factors in that president Jair Bolsonaro (who is despised by much of the population) has openly said that poor women ought to be forcibly sterilised. As far as I know, that has not been said by any previous leader of Brazil, and it marks a big leap in a country where abortion is illegal except in extremely restricted circumstances (rape, incest, risk to mother’s life, foetal anencephaly). And yet here is a president who has called for mass forcible sterilisation. Also Brazil is currently the most demonised country with respect to SARS-CoV2, measured by the number of countries that have banned travel from there. So one has to wonder whether the authorities backed of course by outside interests will soon make a move to impose “hygiene camp with chimneys” time in that country.
The comment by “b” that “‘(t)he #Kremlin source'” adds that there is pressure from promoters of Pfizer to ensure the US is free “not only from the payment of possible compensation to citizens in lawsuits in the event of side effects, but also from liability for negligence of the direct manufacturer” should be of interest to those who are living in Britain where the authorities introduced a law last year (the Coronavirus Act) to remove liability for causing death by negligence not just from medics etc. treating SARS-CoV2 patients but also from those who have been assigned to responsibilities with other patients as a result of work being done with SARS-CoV2 patients – which looked at from a health insurer’s lawyer’s point of view could probably mean the vast majority of medics in the country. There doesn’t have to be pressure to pass such a law in Britain because it has already been passed. That law must have been worth BILLIONS to Big Pharma and “health” insurers. In the fullness of time, it may even become apparent that that law and what are very probably similar laws in other countries amount to payments to Big Pharma that are even bigger than the bailout payments handed over to banks in 2008.March 23, 2021 at 02:18 #69358N_
In the 1930s even someone like David Lloyd-George (!) called for the nationalisation of the weapons companies. But nowadays when Big Pharma interests are much bigger than weapons interests and they have a much larger public relations influence to boot, they are lining their pockets with state money for SARS-CoV2 vaccines and no important part of any mainstream political party is calling for their nationalisation or anything close to it, not even for some of their plants being taken under temporary government administration. It’s just blame continental Europe, Africa, Brazil, and non-white and non-British nurses in Britain instead, not forgetting rioters in Bristol denounced throughout the media as being non-human.March 23, 2021 at 15:18 #69402ET
And the plot thickens:
AstraZeneca’s U.S. coronavirus vaccine trial data may have been ‘outdated,’ ‘incomplete,’ NIH agency says.
U.S. health officials question results from AstraZeneca’s vaccine trial, less than a day after they’re released.
“The national institute’s statement, issued shortly after midnight, stunned experts. Dr. Eric Topol, a clinical trials expert at Scripps Research in San Diego, said it was “highly irregular” to see such a public display of friction between a monitoring board and a study sponsor, which are typically in close concordance.
“I’ve never seen anything like this,” he said. “It’s so, so troubling.”
“Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in an interview that he was “shocked” by the letter and the serious concerns it brought to light. On Monday, before receiving news of the letter, Fauci had said “numbers don’t lie” and that the vaccine looked good.
“The irony of this is that it’s very likely a very good vaccine, and this sort of thing does nothing but cloud the picture. I don’t think it reflects on the vaccine,” Fauci said. “I think it reflects on how the data has rolled out.”
Unusual stuff.March 23, 2021 at 19:18 #69414glenn_uk
SA: ” If you have missed such nuggets, you have not been reading certain ‘progressive’ websites who have totally exposed this huge conspiracy.”
I still wonder what denialists will do for their next trick?
When it’s obvious (even to denialists) that governments are trying to open things up as soon as they can, and that governments are not actually wanting people to wear masks forever “for control” and to have people stopped at home forever, how are denialists going to spin that?
I suppose they’ll do what Mystic N_eg always does, every time his shrill predictions land with a thud – say nothing more about it, pretend it was never said, and refuse to discuss. Like when N_eg told us we’d all be starving to death by last Autumn. By the looks of people, they’ve managed to get by rather well- most people putting on a few kilos if anything.March 23, 2021 at 20:37 #69418Clark
– “It is usually done in private, so this is unprecedented in my opinion,” Evans said.
– “The public airing of a conflict between a pharmaceutical company and a board overseeing a clinical trial is highly unusual.”
– “The letter is a rare window into the typically confidential interactions between a company and the Data and Safety Monitoring Board that polices the integrity of the data.”
– Adrian Hill, one f the scientists at Oxford who developed the vaccine, said in an e-mail that this was “extraordinary behavior” by a data and safety monitoring board.
So this sort of communication goes on all the time, but in this specific case – of an at-cost, not-for-profit vaccine – it somehow became public. How did that happen?
– The letter from the data and safety monitoring board was sent to the NIH and officials of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority Monday evening, officials said. Some pushed hard for it to be released as soon as possible so that it wouldn’t leak.
Ah, a threat to leak. These communications go on all the time, but this time it might have leaked. Funny, that.
– Also, said one of the officials, the White House “did not want the 79 percent story to go unchecked.”
Oh! Does the White House routinely monitor such communications? Or is it more likely that someone drew attention to this particular case?
– – – – – – – – –
I’d be interested to know what went on at the AstraZeneca end. What led AstraZeneca to release the 79% figure before the DSMB’s challenge had been dealt with? Did a critical e-mail get deleted somehow? A bribed employee, or an incompletely secured computer?March 23, 2021 at 21:27 #69419ET
I am almost rooting for Astrazeneca at the moment and where is the UK Gov response? AZ would do the world a favour by releasng the patent and sticking it to them though it is probably far more complicated than that.March 30, 2021 at 19:51 #69639ET
Germany’s standing vaccination commission (Stiko) has recommended that no-one aged under 60 should be given Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccines having previously recommended not giving it to over 65s. It’s not all of Germany but some states and regions.
“Berlin’s state hospital groups Charite and Vivantes have stopped giving women under 55 shots of AstraZeneca’s Covid vaccine, a spokeswomen for the hospitals confirmed.
The moves follow reports of rare but serious blood clots, bleeding and in some cases death after vaccination, mainly in young women.”
Canada has also suspended AZ vaccines to under 55yo. Link.
“She said most of the patients in Europe who developed a rare blood clot after vaccination with AstraZeneca were women under age 55, and the fatality rate among those who develop clots is as high as 40%.”
I am thinking that perhaps the AZ vaccine might have some adverse effects on women taking the pill, other hormonal contraceptive or hormone replacement therapy or possibly pregnancy related?April 4, 2021 at 09:12 #69751Tatyana
Russian news today reports:
The US has stopped production of the AstraZeneca vaccine at a plant in Baltimore, where 15 million doses were spoiled due to an error in the manufacture…
…Emergent BioSolutions, which has partnered with both AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson, accidentally mixed ingredients in two different vaccines…
the russian article refers to The New York Times
“…there is deep concern about the safety of the AstraZeneca vaccine, amid a health scare that has prompted some European countries to restrict its use.”
So, those blood clots were definitely NOT usual. As to “the over-reaction by some nation states” which Kempe found “utterly baffling” – well, those nation states have really excellent Med Stats department, that they were able to trace this “insignificant” deviation.April 4, 2021 at 10:12 #69754Kempe
As of yesterday 30 cases of blood clots, seven fatal, were reported in the UK put of 18 million AZ doses administered.
There remains uncertainty around how common these clots normally are. Estimates range from two cases per million people every year to nearly 16 in every million in normal times and the coronavirus has been linked to abnormal clotting, which may be making these clots more common.April 4, 2021 at 13:52 #69768SA
The incidence of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) is not clear because of its rarity but is also variable in different countries. It is more frequent in women and use of oral contraceptives is more common in those who have it, This paper summarises some of the incidence figures which is between 3/million to 13/million. With the lower figure and given that 18 million people were vaccinated you would expect between 54 and 216 cases of CVST. The reason why the Europeans halted the study was that when an unexpected event happens with a new drug, these are flagged up to exclude association, and I think that has been pretty well done now there is no evidence whatsoever that the risk of CVST is increased if you have the AZ vaccine. Looking at it another way if 30 people who had the AZ vaccine became very ill with acute alcoholic poisoning and 7 died out of 18 million vaccinated then you would not suggest that the vaccine causes alcohol poisoning would you?
Sadly I think the war against the AZ vaccine is a commercial one driven by the fact that of the Western Vaccines, the AZ is being sold at production costs. This is not the case with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. The AZ vaccine is also easier to store and administer. I think living in ration you would understand these commercial turf wars. Similar ones are being waged against the Sputnik and Chinese vaccines.April 4, 2021 at 14:07 #69769ET
I also read that article Tatyana. Emergent BioSolutions were contracted to make 2 different coronavirus vaccines. Due to human error (some dozer) the “ingredients” from one manufacturing process came to be mistakenly added to the other manufacture process because they were mixed up. I think this reflects on Emergent BioSolutions management prowess rather than on the AZ vaccine itself. Emergent BioSolutions seem to have been entirely at fault for contaminating that batch of 15 million doses. One wonders if they were encouraged to do so?
I believe that the EU medicines agency is delberately dragging it’s heels over approval of the Russian Sputnik vaccine though not unsurprisingly they are blaming that on the Russians stating they haven’t submitted the vaccine for approval. It’s hard to know about these particular types of blood clot and I’d like to know if similas CVSTs have occurred in smialr numbers in those who have received the Pfizer vaccine in UK. That information is hard to find so far.April 4, 2021 at 14:10 #69770ET
Here is a link to the report in The Baltimore Times.
“Emergent makes the active ingredients for Johnson and Johnson and AstraZeneca vaccines at the Baltimore Bayview facility.
The New York Times was first to report that workers accidentally swapped materials for the two vaccines, and by the time quality control checks caught the error, millions of doses had already been spoiled.”April 4, 2021 at 14:14 #69771ET
Actually, it was 15 million Johnson and Johnson vaccines that were spoiled and had to be thrown out, not AZ vaccines.April 5, 2021 at 10:26 #69818Tatyana
thank you, I didn’t know about that. Looks like I’m being too fast on conclusions, eh? 🙂
So, Biden transfers the Baltimore facility to Johnson&Johnson, right? They refuse manufacturing AstraZeneca there any more.
The US will have american Pfizer, american Modena and american J&J vaccines, removing British-Sweden AstraZeneca.
I expect they may also find traces of some Russians in the spoiled vaccines story 🙂 I guess it’s “highly likely” as AstraZeneca has joint programm with SputnicV inventor – the Gamaleya center – and also with Russian investment fund. This programm is for clinical tests of SputnikV and AZD1222, they signed a memorandum last year.