Russia in World War Two


Home Forums Discussion Forum Russia in World War Two

This topic contains 44 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  John2o2o 17 hours, 26 minutes ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #46788 Reply

    John2o2o

    It has been reported today in RT that President Vladimir Putin has not been invited by Poland to commemorate the 80th anniversary of the date of the invasion of Poland by Germany on 1st September.
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/467618-poland-russia-ww2-anniversary/

    This in my opinion is very sad as Russia and the former soviet republics played a major role in the defeat of the Nazis. I have been interested in Russia and the Russian language for about 5 years now. I was immediately put in mind of two documentaries I saw a few years ago which I intend to link here for those who are interested.

    The documentaries were part of a series on world war two made for British television in 1973 called “The World at War”. Episode 11 “Red Star” is a more general discussion and features interviews with a number of people. Episode 9 “Stalingrad” unfortunately does not, perhaps as the series was made during the cold war.

    Episode 11 is quite moving in places and opens with the words:
    “No country, no people suffered so terribly in the war as the Soviet Union. Nowhere else are the memories of war so alive today [1973] and so profound. The German invasion brought about a catastrophe which it seemed at first no nation could survive. In the siege of Leningrad [St Petersburg] alone which lasted for over two years more human beings died than the total war dead of Britain and the United States combined. Yet it was here that Hitler was broken. The Russian people faced the possibility that they might perish and overcame it.”

    So I salute the Russian people and the people of the former soviet union for their courage and bravery in defending their homeland and helping to defeat the Nazis.

    EPISODE 11: RED STAR
    <iframe frameborder=”0″ width=”480″ height=”270″ src=”https://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x3p7bw7″ allowfullscreen allow=”autoplay”></iframe>

    EPISODE 9: STALINGRAD
    <iframe frameborder=”0″ width=”480″ height=”270″ src=”https://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x3oeatq” allowfullscreen allow=”autoplay”></iframe>

  • #46789 Reply

    John2o2o

    If the links do not work here are alternative direct links.

    EPISODE 11:

    EPISODE 9:

  • #46801 Reply

    Tatyana

    Thanks for bringing it here, John.

    This day, September 1-st 1939, 80 years ago, the World War II started with the invasion of Nazi Germany into Poland.
    Today, September 1-st 2019, Poland ceased to exist for me as an independent state with sane population.

    They announced “celebrations” of the event, not “commemoration events” as one could expect. They invited Germany as if forgetting who invaded their country. They invited Ukraine, as if forgetting Volyn massacre. They refused to invite Russia, as if 600 000 russian lifes sacrificed to liberate Poland just do not matter.

    Shame on them!

    Thank you dear presidents of Belosussia and president of Armenia, who were invited, but refused to participate!
    —-
    Every family in Russia is affected by the war.

    This is my grandfather, Kravtsov Vasiliy Ivanovich (left)
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WVOvCnCKrEPfLPciy3S6CDkgiVvaDDcR/view?usp=sharing
    This is my grandmother, Vorobtsova Tatyana Michailovna
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N3r2eqP_dFo6SMzWrI36SL7hcqspRPwo/view?usp=sharing
    please see them and say a couple of kind words, they no longer live with us

    • #46814 Reply

      John2o2o

      Thank you Tatyana. I am very pleased to have made this posting here.

      It is right to remember the Russian contribution. It is extraordinary that these very respectful films were made for British television in 1973 during the Cold War. I would think they may have helped to improve relations between our countries.

      When I was growing up in the 1970s and 1980s our films and television were very heavily influenced with output from the United States. We were shown many war films (movies) featuring the exploits of American soldiers in world war two.

      But I cannot remember a single film that told the story of Russia’s fight against the Nazis. Not even one. As a child I was completely unaware of this.

      These two documentaries are the only films that I am aware of which attempt to tell the true story, but I was too young at the time they were first shown to see them.

      In “Red Star” it is hinted that the Nazis tried to recruit nationalists in Ukraine and the Baltic states to their side. It seems that sadly some of the descendants of those nationalists are still sympathetic to the Nazi cause.

      The anti-Russian propaganda that is currently being pushed by governments in the West is also very sad. I do not understand the purpose of it. We should be building bridges and offering friendship to Russia and it’s people. Why would any Russian person want more war when the country suffered so much during the second world war?

      And thank you also Tatyana for sharing the wonderful photographs of your grandparents. And your lovely grandmother wearing her medals with such pride! I shall think of them.

  • #46804 Reply

    Ishmael

    Tatyana said:

    this day, 80 years ago, World War II had started with German invasion into Poland. Your Queen was 13 years old then, and my grandmother was 10.

    Shame. But these events, who they invite etc, have little to do with the people in the country, & I’d imagine many so called “leaders’ (UK particularly) are sucking up to the US Russiagate narrative.

    It’s like saying we accept the queen, I’d have lost faith in all UK sanity if I believed that really true. & Not that you vote for kings, but I’ve never ever taken one Pole that asked this, or on many of the other things they assert. My theory is there is a whole section of British society, namely the poor, who are more or less totally disengaged, & my experience of political party targeting confirms this…

    & those that do engage? Their consent is heavily manufactured by press brainwashing.

    I consider these things, & respect the memory. & I bet many ordinary people in Poland do also… I don’t know the details of Poland politically atm, but these are not friendly political times among the elite thanks to US aggression & all who go along with em.

  • #46805 Reply

    Tatyana

    it is said in the russian news, that Poland does not publish the list of invited countries.
    I wonder, did they invite Israel as well?

    I think Mr. Netanijahu would greatly appreciate the opportunity to meet Ukrainian and Lithuanian presidents and to discuss their country’s participation in Holocaust. He must know about Łódź and Treblinka, maybe he would be excited to meet the current Head of the German State to discuss something with him, as the whole “festival” is devoted to the beginning of WW II.

    Mr. Netanijahu may be excited to know that Ukraine have an avenue in Kiev named after Stephan Bandera. Or, to know they celebrate SS brigade anniversary, demonstrating banners saying “Ukraine will not forget the arrow with the Golden Lion on the sleeve”
    https://strana.ua/news/198868-v-tsentre-kieva-natsionalisty-vyvesili-ohromnyj-banner-v-pamjat-o-natsistskoj-divizii-ss-halichina.html
    Estonis, with their love to SS veterans? 18 citizens of Belgium and З4 British citizen who voluntarily served the Wehrmacht and the SS, who are still Bundesversorgungsgesetz??? https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2019/02/22/krome-belgiycev-pensii-gitlera-poluchayut-i-britanskie-kollaboracionisty
    or the photo of ukrainian parliamentary Marushinets, making ‘zig-heil’??? https://strana.ua/img/forall/u/0/22/45053503_2168744049824318_5376700920266489856_n(1).jpg

  • #46809 Reply

    Paul Barbara

    It should not be forgotten that Britain (principally), France and Russia planned to create WWI from 1905, in order to crush Germany, which was rapidly becoming a threat to Britain’s trade, making better products and more modern factories.
    And US banks and corporations built up Hitler thirties, with the objective that Germany would invade Russia.
    One more WW to come, WWIII.

  • #46810 Reply

    Kempe

    Tatanya, you forgot to mention that Russia’s predecessor, Soviet Union, also invaded Poland in 1939. Sixteen days after Germany. Twenty-two thousand Poles murdered by NKVD in Katyn Forest. This was the Red Army’s second attempt to invade Poland, the first in the 1920s being defeated. After Russia drove the Nazis out of Poland they kept the country and it’s people oppressed until 1991.

    Did Russia ever apologise?

    • #46812 Reply

      Tatyana

      Kempe, you forgot to mention that Poland was openly hostile to the Soviet Union. Chauvinist state, they had concentration camp Bereza Kartuzka for jews, ukrainians and belorussians long before the war started. A year before the war, Poland conspired with Hitler and took a piece of Czechoslovakia. And planned to attack the Soviet Union together with Hitler and Japan. And fully supported the “final solution of the Jewish problem”.

      You write as if Poland was a peaceful innocent victim of aggression.

      • #46885 Reply

        John2o2o

        “You write as if Poland was a peaceful innocent victim of aggression.”

        Poland has always been viewed in this way here in the UK Tatyana. We had an agreement with Poland that if Germany invaded we would enter the war. It was Germany’s invasion of Poland that forced our country into declaring war on Germany. Every schoolchild is taught this.

        • #46935 Reply

          Tatyana

          nevermind mentioned Poland in another discussion:

          “…I understand that Poland was in the way of armies for over 200 years and has been overwhelmed and forced into defending themselves from Russian forces more than once…”

          I’ve commented:

          “Poor little innocent Poland never had a slogan “Poland from the Baltic sea to the Black sea”, never took western Belorussia and western Ukraine from Russia and Wilen region from Lithuania, never had Pilsudski-Hitler pact. When Hitler demanded Sudeten, poor little innocent Poland never demanded (and never got) Teshin region from ex-Czechoslovakia.
          Overwhelmed!
          When Hitler invaded, polish government escaped to the neighbour Romania.
          Forced into defending themselves! Indeed.

          They are playing victim to get another trillion dollars.”

          • #46964 Reply

            John2o2o

            Yes, Tatyana, well I think Poland has for many years played the victim card. Your knowledge of the war is probably much greater than mine.

            I attended a Catholic school in my city of Leicester from age 11-18 and in my school were a significant number of Polish children. Also some Ukrainians. We had a music teacher Mrs Kania, a glamorous lady who was married to a close relative of the Polish Secretary Mr Kania. We had other teachers who were Poles as well.

            Religion was a major issue for Poles as – please correct me if I am wrong – religion was suppressed under Communism. The Pope was from 1978 a Pole and a lot of people were also sympathetic to the Solidarity Union of Lech Walesa:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_(Polish_trade_union)

            I can remember someone in my school wearing a “solidarnosc” badge.

            It was also important in my family – well, my mother’s family in Scotland – as they were Catholics. (My father’s family were not really religious). My Scottish grandfather was a communist in the 1930s, but turned against it because of the suppression of religion in the USSR. This was one of the things I was taught about what we called the “Iron Curtain” behind which was the USSR. We really were told that Russians were not nice people at all and that KGB agents were on every corner.

            You are a little bit younger than me, so perhaps you are not so aware of some of these issues to do with Poland. I would be interested to know more about Russia and if any of what we were told is true? You are the only Russian person I know at all.

          • #46967 Reply

            Tatyana

            not that I have all ready in my head. It is mostly like this – I see a comment that greatly differs from what I was taught, I see something is greatly wrong, so I check the facts and bring it here with the certain dates and names and source links.

            religion was separated from the state (secular state) The Church and priests were ridiculed. Scientific approach, logic and social humanism were closer to the people of that time, and religion was believed to be the lot of old people.

            opressed, well, rather mocked than opressed. I was born in 1978 and my granny baptised me, and you know, the priest took money twice for this. from my granny first and from my great-granny second time 🙂 Smaaaartass 🙂

          • #47002 Reply

            John2o2o

            Lol, well, I wasn’t expecting you to tell me all about it at once … the church was mocked rather than oppressed. That is interesting to know. I was only baptised once, but I suppose the church still took some money 🙂 What church was it?

            Although I am not really religious myself these days I lit two candles in church for your grandparents Vasiliy and Tatyana that you mentioned in the post above. I wasn’t sure if you would mind, I hope that’s okay. I did have to make a donation though …

  • #46811 Reply

    Brianfujisan

    Hi Folks

    I see that Chinese are not invited to Poland, along with Russia.

    here is a good article on China’s role, wich started 2 years before the invasion of Poland –

    CHINA LOST 14 MILLION PEOPLE IN WORLD WAR II. WHY IS THIS FORGOTTEN?

    Historian Rana Mitter believes a better understanding of China’s future actions can follow a truer understanding of its World War II past.

    https://psmag.com/news/china-lost-14-million-people-world-war-ii-forgotten-66482

  • #46816 Reply

    Tatyana

    it seems that the reason for such idiotic behavior of Poland has been found. The reason is simple, as always it’s money.

    ” Mariusz Blashak, the Minister of National Defence of Poland … accused Russia that his country has not received the postwar reparations from Germany.

    … the Polish parliamentary group … calculated that the country could require Germany to pay about another trillion dollars …

    Germany has repeatedly stated that they do not intend to make payments, because there is no reason to question Poland’s refusal of reparations in 1954.

    Mariusz Blashak comments that “Russia made such a decision” and “Poland was not sovereign” in it.”
    https://ria.ru/20190902/1558150909.html

    I see how conviniet for Poland it is to be an enemy of Russia, today it may bring another trillion dollars!

    Then, why are they silent about Eastern Prussia, Upper Silesia, Lower Silesia, Frankfurt, Reichenau and Pomerania with the way to the Baltic Sea, their only way to the sea! Evil Stalin imposed these lands on them after the war! Poland, if you are friends with Germany, should you not return the lands? 🙂
    Or do they want both to keep the land and to get another trillion dollars?

    Another country barking about Soviet occupation is Ukraine, she should then return half of its territory back to Russia, I’m always standing for justice 🙂

    • #46886 Reply

      John2o2o

      lol, Tatyana you should be in politics. Standing for the return of lost sovereign lands to mother Russia 🙂 … well, I would vote for you !

      • #46934 Reply

        Tatyana

        it is not at all about mother Russia 🙂 it is about justice.
        here is the map of the Ukraine, see how much of her territory she gained when in the USSR, and she kept the land when got out of USSR.
        https://statehistory.ru/img_lib2/2014/08/1407840375_f862.png

        I think they should at least be grateful, and if they chose to bark how much they were opressed, then they should return the lands. You see? Return to what they had before the USSR. Justice.
        *I don’t believe in ‘opression’ when one gets more and more wealth and still keeps it when “liberated”. It looks more like a lucrative partnership or a fruitful marriage :-)*
        They bark and at the same time bomb Donbass area, populated with mostly russian people, area which went to them during the USSR period. I don’t even mention their latest “posession” – the Crimea.

        Your history books pick only what is convinient for your country’s ideology. They do not lie, just don’t say the whole truth.

        • #46966 Reply

          John2o2o

          “see how much of her territory she gained when in the USSR, and she kept the land when got out of USSR.”

          Well that’s a fair point. I was only joking really about you standing for election 🙂

          I saw some terrible pictures from the Donbass bombings. A young woman whose legs were blown off and who was still alive. She died in the street while being filmed, poor woman.

          The east of Ukraine (Donbass) is mostly Russian isn’t it?

          https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/the-ukraine-crisis-in-three-maps/

          I can understand why there would be many people in the Donbass who would want to become a part of Russia again, but I cannot see it happening. The Crimea was relatively easy for Russia to reclaim, but still the NATO countries dislike it intensely.

          Much of the suspicions of Russia go back to the Communist days. I saw John Pilger interview John Bolton in “The Coming War on China” and as the interview ended Bolton turned to Pilger and said something like “Are you a Communist?” Such is America’s paranoia still about Communism.

          I think that the Nazi occupation must have stirred up a lot of trouble and that is why there are Nazi sympathisers there today. Why do people in Galicia seem to hate Russia so much?

  • #46845 Reply

    Tatyana

    REPORTER: Do you have a message for Poland on the 80th anniversary of World War 2?

    TRUMP: “I do have a great message for Poland & we have Mike Pence, our vice president, is just about landing right now…
    I just want to congratulate Poland”



    ah ha ha ha 🙂 Well said, Mr. Trump! I admire your knowledge of History!

  • #47010 Reply

    Kempe

    So Tatyana you’re saying that Poland deserved to be invaded and have regime change forced upon it? An interesting view point. I’ve not found any evidence to support your claims that Poland was sending Jews to its concentration camp or that it was conspiring with the Nazis and Japan to invade Russia. Could you provide a link?

    Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia already had their own extensive system of concentration camps for political opponents and others. Why would the presence of just the one small camp in Poland justify a joint invasion? If Russia cared so much about Europe’s Jews why did they sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact? As the decision to exterminate Jews rather than deport or imprison didn’t happen until 1941 how could an independent Poland have been a party to it?

    • #47024 Reply

      Tatyana

      Kempe, I’m a modern russian citizen and I don’t think that Poland deserved it, because now we know what happened after and what was the outcome. Unlike the people of that history period.
      But I can see why Stalin would think so at that time and I can see that Poland behaved no better than the other countries.
      You write “one small concentration camp” as if it is something that doesn’t count! With their average 30 millions population it may have been enough.
      Just 2 decades before the event Poland defeated Russia and took western territories of Ukraine and Belorussia. Poland and USSR were enemies. Poland sent communists, jews, ukrainians and belorussians – those members of national freedom movements – to the concentration camp since 1934. When Hitler invaded, Polish government fled to Romania and USSR found it good moment to also invade and take back Ukrainian and Belorussian lands.
      These lands belong to Ukraine and Belorussia up to today, and I don’t understand why you accuse modern Russia of the acts? USSR consisted of many republics, which used the joint state power to achieve their goals, as you see it is not modern Russia who has ‘profit’ of invading Poland.
      —-
      I’m at the seaside now, I’ll bring the links you ask for, later.

  • #47018 Reply

    John2o2o

    @ kempe

    With respect – and I am not going to attempt to answer your specific points, which Tatyana can, I am sure do for herself when she is ready to do so – I would say that your claim that Tatyana is saying that:

    “Poland deserved to be invaded and have regime change forced upon it.”

    is false. I see nowhere on this comment thread in which such a position has been stated by her.

    Tatyana’s passionate defence of her country is I think very reasonable and understandable in the context of Poland’s recent cowardly snub to the Russian Federation and in the context of her country’s great (and in the west often scandalously ignored) and undeniable contribution to fighting the evil Nazi war machine.

    Germany was invited to the event to mark the beginning of World War II by Poland just over a week ago. According to WIkipedia the USSR apologised to Poland for the Katyn massacre in 1990:

    “when it officially acknowledged and condemned the perpetration of the killings by the NKVD, as well as the subsequent cover-up by the Soviet government”

    And if we are going to make comparisons, who committed the greatest atrocities in Poland in the war. Germany or the USSR?

    The purpose of my making the original post was to honour the contribution made by the Soviet people in the war and was not intended to highlight the issue of Poland specifically.

  • #47022 Reply

    John2o2o

    @ kempe:

    today from Peter Hitchens’ twitter feed (high profile British newspaper columnist and author):

    “Poland, was among the first countries to sign an international treaty with Germany in 1934. It was a Judophobic military despotism, & took part In rape of Czecho. Colonel Beck was love-bombed by Hitler and Ribbentrop.”

    and also:

    “Our most important alliance ever was with Stalin.”

    • #47023 Reply

      John2o2o

      And just to add: Peter Hitchens was not supporting Stalin when he spoke of the importance of our wartime alliance with the Soviet Union. And my understanding is that a great many Russians themselves also suffered under his rule.

      Instead I think he was acknowledging that without the courage and determination of the Russian people to stand up to Hitler’s Nazis, Germany would not have been defeated in 1945 and a great many more lives would have been lost.

      I quote again from the film I posted:
      “No country, no people suffered so terribly in the war as the Soviet Union. Nowhere else are the memories of war so alive today [1973] and so profound. The German invasion brought about a catastrophe which it seemed at first no nation could survive. In the siege of Leningrad [St Petersburg] alone which lasted for over two years more human beings died than the total war dead of Britain and the United States combined. Yet it was here that Hitler was broken. The Russian people faced the possibility that they might perish and overcame it.”

  • #47046 Reply

    Dave

    No country is entirely guilty or innocent and victors write the history books and decide who gets the blame, but Poland suffered primarily due to poor leadership in their refusal to do a deal with Germany over Danzig, perhaps due to Britain’s mad “Polish Guarantee”.

    Poland was a newly created country with many minorities within its borders and was foolish to believe it was a great power that could withstand invasion from both Soviet Union and Germany. That is resolving a dispute with Germany over Danzig was reasonable in context.

    In practice Poland had to choose between Germany or Soviet Union, but really had more to fear from Soviet Union as they had conquered large parts of old Russian Empire during the civil war.

    Therefore once the Nazi-Soviet pact was signed their fate was sealed unless they did a deal with Germany. The Pact was designed to bring Poland to the negotiation table as the ‘secret’ protocols to divide the country between their neighbours would have been made known to them.

    This view is based on the very generous terms given to Soviet Union, which only made sense if Hitler expected the threat to work. It didn’t and Hitler’s tactical victory resulted in a strategic defeat by vastly increasing the power of Soviet Union. It was no doubt this that propelled Hitler to attack Soviet Union, whilst it was he thought, weak under communism, but would be a very strong danger under a resurgent Russian nationalism, when it finally arose.

    • #47073 Reply

      John2o2o

      Welcome to the discussion Dave. This is not a subject that I know enough about to be able to comment on directly, but I appreciate your thoughtful contribution.

  • #47074 Reply

    John2o2o

    Tatyana,

    I wanted to ask you if you had heard any stories about the war and whether you would be happy to share them here. You mentioned your grandparents Vasiliy and Tatyana above but did not expand on what their personal experiences were. I would be very interested to learn more about how the war affected them and the people living in your part of Russia.

  • #47098 Reply

    Tatyana

    Ok, I’m back.

    Re. Hitler’s politics, the most important feature of then existing Poland was – it was a remnant of former Russain Empire, holding at her posession the territories of “черта оседлости” -> “border of permanent residence of Jews” established as far as 1791 by Catherine II and existed till 1917.
    It included (*I copy it from wiki)
    – all ten provinces of the Kingdom of Poland,
    + Bessarabian, Vilna, Vitebsk, Volyn, Grodno, Ekaterinoslav, Kiev, Kovno, Minsk, Mogilev, Podolsk, Poltava, Taurida, Kherson, Chernigov.
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8#/media/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Ansiedlungsrayon-es.svg
    In short, now it is parts of Poland, Ukraine, Belorussia, Latvia and Moldova.

    here is the map from the wiki article “The “Pale of Settlement” with “Congress Poland” in Tsarist Russia with percentages of Jewish population in the governorates, 1905.”
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8#/media/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Ansiedlungsrayon-es.svg


    so, when they say “Hitler invaded Poland” I always turn it into “Hitler attacked the places of Jewish settlements” inside my mind.

    • #47099 Reply

      Tatyana

      and here is a good resume of “European pacts with Hitler. History of silence”
      https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/59ddfe76fd96b1a4d0aefd36/evropeiskie-pakty-s-gitlerom-istoriia-molchaniia-5c15760aca54dd00abe7aae9

      1933. Pact of four (Italy, Germany, England, France)… some of the Versailles borders (between Germany and Poland and between Hungary and its neighbours) were also supposed to be audited.

      1934. Pilsudski-Hitler Pact (Germany, Poland)…Poles vehemently deny the existence of secret agreements, and any mention of it is called “Kremlin propaganda.” The text of this document has not yet been discovered, as well as the secret protocols to the ‘Treaty of the USSR and Germany’, however, there are a great many references to it.

      1935. Anglo-German naval agreement… in fact, the Germans were given the opportunity to build 5 battleships, two aircraft carriers, 21 cruisers and 64 destroyers. When signing the Treaty, Britain did not inform its WWI allies France and Italy of its desire to conclude a Treaty with Hitler, thereby agreeing unilaterally to the Germans ‘ violation of the Treaty of Versailles.

      1936. Anti-Comintern Pact (Germany, Japan)…fascist Italy joined in 1937, Manchukuo and Hungary and Spain in 1939, later Romania, Finland, Bulgaria and the governments of Denmark, Croatia and Slovakia also joined.

      1938. Munich conspiracy (England, France, Germany, Italy)… transmission of the Sudetenland by Czechoslovakia to Germany. Signed by Chamberlain, Daladier, Mussolini and Hitler

      1939. Dusseldorf agreement (Germany, England)… which stipulated the economic division of Europe between the monopolies of Germany and England.

      1939. German-Romanian economic treaties and agreements… Under the Treaty, Romania received 250 million Reichsmarks in trade loans, including loans for military supplies. The German side has the right to create “free zones” for its warehouses and oil storage facilities in Romanian ports, financial participation in the Romanian oil industry, construction of roads and railways necessary for Germany.

      1939. Treaty on non-aggression of Germany in the Baltic States… Germany proposed non-aggression treaties with Estonia, Latvia, Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden on 28 April 1939. Sweden, Norway and Finland refused.

      On August 11, 1939, Hitler declared to the Commissioner of the League of Nations in Danzig, Karl Burkhardt:
      “Everything I do is directed against the Russians. If the West is too stupid and blind to understand this, then I will be forced to make an agreement with the Russians, beat the West and then, after its defeat, turn again against the Soviet Union.”

      • #47101 Reply

        Tatyana

        I mean, just remember the above when you think that Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was the only treaty with Hitler 🙂


        we were on the family trip to the seaside this week-end and went as far from Krasnodar as far as to the Novorossyisk city. When we were driving in the Goryachiy Kluch and Krymsk my husband told to our son that every meter of this land is literally covered with shells and blood. He also told that Hungarians and Romanians and Slovaks were standing there.
        I asked if they were fighting with Hitler, but my husband turned very bitter and sarcastically said – “no, please remember we were fighting alone. Hungarians were well-known for their cruelty and punitive actions, so even there was an order not to take them prisoners”.
        He also tald that nearer to the end of the war, when it was obvious USSR is winning, many “changed their boots in the air” (*russian idiom for changing the mask).
        And now they stand as countries-winners.


        even on September 1 in Poland, Croatian President Kolinda Grabar Kitarovic surprised many historians by stating:
        – The Croatian people … have made the greatest contribution to the anti-fascist struggle in Europe …

        and historians say that : The independent Croatian power, created by Hitler on the ruins of Yugoslavia, sent the 369th volunteer regiment to the Eastern front. This regiment fought well enough against our soldiers during the battle of Stalingrad.

        • #47205 Reply

          John2o2o

          Well all politicians – at least Western ones – are liars. It is terrible that we do not honour the great Russian contribution to the war as we should. And Russia still has an air of mystery about it for us here. Many British expats live in Spain, and many would holiday in Greece, but I cannot imagine anyone ever going on holiday to the Black Sea.

          “changed their boots in the air” (*russian idiom for changing the mask)

          there is a simpler word which we often use and that is “turncoat”.

          You know, before I knew you I had never even heard of Krasnodar and yet I see that it is a huge city. We know so little of Russia here and we ignore her presence.

      • #47134 Reply

        John2o2o

        Thank you for your very detailed contributions here Tatyana. I stand in awe.

        I have to smile at your description of the 1938 agreement as the “Munich Conspiracy”. An apt description, perhaps but I have never heard it referred to as such myself. Here it is generally referred to as the “Munich Agreement” and is a very famous moment in British history with the then Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain often shown on television with a copy of the agreement in his hand declaring “Peace in Our Time”. It has come to be viewed as a time when we (the UK) appeased Hitler.

        I may have more to say later.

        • #47143 Reply

          Tatyana

          the stories from my grandparents… well, they didn’t tell us much about the war. perhaps they tried to safeguard us from the awful details? I don’t know.
          My grandpa served as a driver for a ‘commandant’ in a German town after the war. My grandma was an orfan, she was obliged to bring water to the fields, on a hourse-driven cart.
          Most important are their philosofy ideas which they shared with us. My grandfa died when I was 3, but my grandma spent a lot of time with me. She always had time for me. I learned so much from her! And I do miss her much!

          As many russians she worked a lot, got up and went to bed early. She made home supply of long-lasting food. Never threw away a tiny piece of bread.
          I don’t, too.
          Though we live in much more food-abundant times, I won’t throw away bread. We make fried sandwiches, or croutons, or freeze the extra bread. Soaked with milk/cream bread we add to meatballs, but we have no habit to throw it away.
          Nowadays with a lot of internet kitchen recipes I see that many national cuisines are very economical when disposing of products or with fuel consumption.

          • #47170 Reply

            John2o2o

            Thank you so much for sharing this Tatyana. it means much more when it it comes from a genuine person rather than a journalist or government.

            It is the same here. Some people talked a lot about the war and some said very little. My own family did not talk about it a great deal. Both of my parents were born during the war in 1942. My mother said she could remember fires being lit to celebrate the end of the war.

            My English grandad was an ordinary soldier, but promoted a few times. He was commended for bravery (though I never knew what for) and there was a framed certificate in their house. He was very proud of that. I know he was involved with bridge building over the Rhine.

            I also have a great distaste for food wastage. The only food wastage I have is tea bags! It might in part be my own grandmother’s influence – I don’t really know. I know that your grandmother was someone you were very close to from other postings. She seems to come from another age, and I imagine her to be a wise and kindly soul. I am sure she was a wonderful lady. A lot of the wisdom and philosophy of people like her is being lost today, which I think is a great shame.

            My English grandmother also worked hard. Their house was always spotlessly clean and she loved cooking. She was married to my grandfather for over 60 years, but lived for less than a year after he died in 2001.

  • #47107 Reply

    Dave

    A “beware of dog” sign, doesn’t mean there is a dog and then again there may be a dog, but its very small, hence the warning may be exaggerated!

    Hence Hitler’s threats to expand in the East and specifically at the expense of Russia could be hyperbole to meet other objectives. For example talking about conquests in the east was the nationalist way to oppose seeking an empire overseas, which Hitler viewed as “fools gold”, but with no real intention of pursuing beyond an aspiration. And casting Russia as the enemy was a way of doing deals with countries who fear Russia more than Germany and therefore a way to resolve for example Danzig.

    The problem was Hitler was in a hurry to resolve the ‘injustices of Versailles’ and then get on as an architect with transforming Germany, which led to the fatal error of invading Poland, which he didn’t really want to do, but ‘had to’ once his bluff was called and this of course is the problem with brinkmanship.

    It looked so easy once the Pact was signed (and even more so after division of Poland) because Britain could not pursue the war without signing its own death warrant and so was bound to sue for peace and on very reasonable terms as Hitler knew only others would gain from dissolution of British Empire.

    Except Churchill refused to act rationally and the rest is history.

  • #47254 Reply

    Tatyana

    Politicians lie, ordinary people read one-sided history books, some countries are interested in reconsidering their role in world war II. But we in Russia know very well about this war.
    In my city, someone decided that everything is forgotten, and one can put a monument to Hungarian soldiers right next to the monument to Soviet soldiers 🙂
    Ask me what was the response of the local patriotic club and where is this hungarian monument now.

    • #47291 Reply

      John2o2o

      (lol) Oh dear, is that true?

      I found more on Hungary and it’s relationship with Russia:

      “Hungarians divided over fate of Soviet monument” (2007):
      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hungary-russia/hungarians-divided-over-fate-of-soviet-monument-idUSL3020538420070403

      • #47302 Reply

        Tatyana

        I believe that only a very naive child would not notice the substitution of concepts in this case.
        The monument was erected to those soldiers who sacrificed their lives in the war against Nazism. This is a monument to the dead people, not those who came later and established their power over the country. It’s amazing how people can ignore the difference between a fallen soldier and a living official.
        Are they all morons or something?
        Again, as in the whole anti-Russian propaganda they take one generalized word, for example “Russian” or “Soviet”, and start to hate everything connected with it.
        Stupid fools.

        • #47322 Reply

          John2o2o

          “Are they all morons or something? Again, as in the whole anti-Russian propaganda they take one generalized word, for example “Russian” or “Soviet”, and start to hate everything connected with it.”

          Unfortunately most people do not think very hard about issues. They are like sheep and just go along with what they are told on their tv, radio, newspapers and internet. We probably all do it to some extent. We were taught to be frightened of Russia and people hate what they are afraid of.

          I know I have said it before, but I genuinely believe that Russians are very good people and it is my hope that it will be possible for the western countries in time to be on good terms with Russia and the Russian people and to better understand Russia and it’s culture 🙂

  • #47292 Reply

    John2o2o

    @ Tatyana
    I hope you will find the time to say more about Russia in world war two here 🙂

    Your holiday destination Novorossiysk is a Hero City:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_City

    • #47303 Reply

      Tatyana

      John, it is 75 years since the war is over. Most eyevitnesses are dead or very very old by now. I can’t tell the whole story of that war even in several pages, mind you, I know it only from history textbooks, stories of elders and museums 🙂

      • #47321 Reply

        John2o2o

        Well that’s fine 🙂 There is no rush, but if you think of anything which you think is of interest then I hope you will add it.

        There is so much of this story that has been untold 🙂

Reply To: Russia in World War Two
Your information: