The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
children! asking the censor for favours? he said she said .ne ne ne …FFS
there should be no moderation/censorship..it should roll like kerouac’s ‘on the road’.. the alternative view . is this not aligned with wikileaks? freedom of opinion and information , to let the reader decide to read or not… there is a scroll wheel or arrow button.. i use it all the time on this thread for people like katie, james, kathy etc etc… you are censoring anders , one of the only people worth reading on here… jon, stop censoring… let it roll… we are all it seems adults here…
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Well said Daddio!
Wtf is Jon trying to achieve???
I bet Craig would be impressed with him deleting paragraphs from Togo willy nilly!
Jesus HFC
Already!
“And this one was DELETED by Jon.”
No it wasn’t. It’s up the page at
2 Oct, 2012 – 12:01 am
“If you are in a vehicle on a tree lined road (wooded area), I would expect that environment what be totally different to being outside working on a house in the still of the day and without trees or other buildings around you (or indeed up a ladder working on a house).”
Thanks James. And I’m sure you have a point.
Which makes me think: Was he up a ladder going “bang bang bang” with a hammer and did this noise travel in the still air??
“Disinformation agent. Yuri Gagarin orbited the earth at 100 miles. As spy satellites are powered they can achieve much lower orbits by increasing their velocity (even though this sounds counter intuitive it’s a fact – the lower you go the faster you have to travel)”
Information agent:-
http://www.thetech.org/exhibits/online/satellite/4/4a/4a.1.html
Gagarin only managed one orbit in a flight lasting 108 minutes. Anything put into orbit at 80 miles wouldn’t stay up there for very long unless it carried a lot of fuel with it, it’s barely out of reach of the earth’s atmosphere which begins to have an effect on re-entering spacecraft at 75 miles. Iran’s Rasad 1 satellite in a LEO of 147 to 186 miles fell back to earth after just three weeks.
“why does innocent Jon keep deleting stuff”
Harrr! Jon must be Mossad/MI6/CIA, then, is that the latest?
Me: ‘I was suggesting that 3 or 4 or 5 eyewitnesses won’t necessarily agree on all details’.
Ferret: ‘No, you weren’t. You were saying (in the original context) that it didn’t matter that some witnesses reported hearing 30 seconds of automatic gunfire, while others (specifically BM) heard none’.
My actual words were: ‘What [my story] says to me in relation to the al Hilli case, is that relatively minor discrepancies should be *completely ignored*.’
I don’t think it’s hugely relevant whether people said they heard gunshots or not. (Unless you’re pushing the story that there were no killings at all, and the whole thing is an Anders fairytale™ — are you?) Many, if not most, people don’t know what real gunshots sound like. They’re relying on what they’ve seen/heard in films. And I would have assumed that assassins/killers would have used silencers anyway – which probably explains why RAFman heard nothing. There could have been other noises which people – after the event – decided must have been gunshots.
Unless these people belonged to a family involved in hunting. But a hunting weapon wouldn’t sound the same as an unsilenced Beretta, would it? (I’ve used a rifle and to me it doesn’t sound like a handgun. But I don’t claim for a minute to be any kind of weapons expert.)
The same goes for RAFman and his reference to a ‘sibling’. He would have heard about the real sibling after the event. And without thinking, referred to a ‘sibling’ rather than ‘another child’ in his TV interview. I don’t find anything odd about that at all. Why it would have been deleted from the interview, I have no idea. (Unless someone was reading the kerfuffle about it here.)
Also, I don’t see anything unusual or suspicious about him being stiff or stilted or unnatural in the interview. I’ve done quite a bit of radio and TV (more TV than radio) in the past and I can well remember how ‘unnatural’ I was on the first couple of occasions. The set-up is not exactly conducive to being relaxed or being “yourself”.
“Truly, this form of moderation, while being ostensibly “fair”, is favouring one side over the other.”
So (according to you) favouring the ‘other side’ would be better??
I’ve had a busy day, and I’m off now, barring any immediate controversy about what I’m saying, above.
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How many times was “I don’t see” used?
@Jon / @Clark
There are several recent posts by one poster that are merely “re-posts” rants, topped up with further rants with regard to moderation.
Can they be deleted. They do not follow this thread, which is a discussion on the strange death of Mr Al Hilli and his wife and mother in law.
“And this one was DELETED by Jon.”
No it wasn’t. It’s up the page at
2 Oct, 2012 – 12:01 am
=====
What about my love letters to you?
All my poems???
All deleted courtesy of Jon.
Nudi I am not a liar, I have had tons if posts deleted.
“How many times was “I don’t see” used?”
OMG you slaughtered me, Anders!
Did you mean how many times did *I* use it? I’ve just done a Ctrl+F and it seems I used it once. OK-ski?
‘Night night all
Nuid
The problem is, that one source of “information” is being stood up to.
People do want a thread that is an exchange of “theories”…and not prolonged rants of a self interested poster (or is that self obsessed).
No doubt this poster will claim “censorship” in action.
However what he fails to understand is often the people who seek to “rule” often cry “foul” and “censorship” when their actions are questioned.
The thing about this “Saad” thing is….
Iran, The USA and Isreal cannot afford “WWIII”.
I doubt any (!) want it.
The UAE (The ENEC) is starting it’s own Nuclear fuel project (peak oil etc) and why shouldn’t Iran do the same ?
Clearly there is a “terrorist with nukes” debate and nuclear smuggling goes on, but a “nation against nation” nuclear war ????
That would be suicide. I can’t see that (at the moment).
Back to the car park at D’Ire. These guys “appear” not to be Prof’s in nuclear science…but their killing would make “people” think so.
Assuming they were “smugglers” what would killing them serve ?
Why not arrest them ? That’s been done before.
A big public trial would be good ! For some.
That would make an attack on Iran (which I believe the US wants) more likely (or likeable) ?
When you research this subject…it becomes more confusing.
Was Sa’ad Al Hilli a whistleblower (Like Dr KellY) ?
And Mollier “confirming” his findings from Sa’ad’s insider knowledge ?
@ james ” There are several recent posts by one poster that are merely “re-posts” rants, topped up with further rants with regard to moderation.
Can they be deleted.”
bit of a ‘grass’ are we boy? and an iron maybe on top of that ?
@ james “Clearly there is a “terrorist with nukes””
you mean Isreal(sic)? and that kidon outfit inflicting terror on 4 & 7 yr old kids
Tip of the iceberg – the house of cards is starting to fall
two of their weapons in their secret world are 1. making stories like this look like isolated one-offs, and 2. charity. Charity is the shield they hold up to protect their heinous acts, no-one can criticise it, and as has been pointed out, Jimmy knew where all the bodies are buried, literally and metaphorically, and with his royal connections, he was supremely well protected. Esther’s weepy performance was predictable. Sooo much more to this. Still clinging on to her job, when her high profile job was to protect children. Joining the dots, this is massive.
Procurement of children for peado rings, and prostitutes for satanic rituals, going right up to the top and some very big names. And big stories too, the Soham murders etc where, like Ian Brady, Fred West and Peter Sutcliffe, Ian Huntley took the rap for a much larger operation. The crimes they were convicted of were probably a fraction of the bigger picture. They were just the ones that got found out. Like Jack the Ripper, all an inside job involving some very big names, and fed off to the press as the story of a lone nutter, made into grisly, mysterious folklore, when its a culture of evil involving some of the country’s very famous and supposedly trusted and respected characters.
Jimmy was a prime procurer with access to children on tv, hospitals, childrens homes etc. That’s why he was so highly paid and rewarded. He will look small fry when the dam breaks, and it’s started. Interesting days ahead!
Murdochs Revenge 🙂
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISIS_neutron_source
This futs within the time range (1980s) that Saad al-Hilli worked at Rutherford Appleton doing whatever it is that he did.
@Ferret
1 Oct, 2012 – 10:38 pm
‘What *were* SAH’s links to nuclear weapons research?’
The answer is in plain sight, and it’s been mentioned many times before.
Chevaline!
What are the chances of .. .. .. ..???
@James
2 Oct, 2012 – 3:26 am
Right, don’t lose sight of Sylvain. His association with Solidarité & Progrès 73 shouldn’t be overlooked.
Strange that it originated in Ugine by gathering a list of leftists, communists, socialists, environmentalists, progressive people,from the world of trade union or voluntary organisations representing the Uginoise left in the 2008 local election.
http://solidariteprogres73.elunet.fr/index.php/category/Accueil-Presentation
Scroll down to the article ‘Communiqué’
Cannot keep up with this internet circus, but two things are quite clear about the massacre – Saad al-Hilli’s emloyment at SSTL since November 2010 where he had access to much of its work and could well have been involved in spying about it, and what SSTL’s satellites could have provided any government with more information about the air, sea, and land threats it faced, and what counter measures it should take of minimized them.
About Saad’s employment, here is what SSTL had to say about it, and notice that it will be saying nothing more, indicating again that there must be a DN about it:
http://www.technologynewsroom.com/press_releases/company_releases.aspx?story=2054
As for the SatMagazine article I have already linked, you can see by reading it that SSTL’s technology, and how the ESA was developing it would be most helpful in Tehran’s preparing against airborne attacks by HAARP’s ionospheric heater, underwater intrusions of various sorts, and more earthquakes in the making.
@Trowbrige
What massacre? Where are the funerals?
Ahmed Al-Saffar (quoted in Independent etc):
“In the meantime, we would ask that the media understand that as a family we need time to grieve and we would therefore request that they respect our privacy at this intensely difficult time.”
what does that remind us of?? La famille Kelly?? [btw, Dr Kelly’s death certificate isn’t signed by a doctor]
@Olifant
So, the Bewick’s cottage is in front of the farm of Lise & Paul * Ducher? Yes? (*who suddenly in the BBC programme became the witness who saw the BMW, not the workers…)
So there was no massacre?
Dr. Kelly wasn’t murdered either, apparently also by the Mossad?
What next, there were no planes on 9/11, so no passengers were killed then either?
Sylvain Mollier has been buried in Ugine, and the al-Hilli ones will be buried too, once they are released by the authorities.
In short, stop talking nonsense.
So where does this woman fit in to it all?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/shreen-ayob/alps-shootings-lazy-journalism-in-chevaline-case_b_1894806.html
This “incroyable hasard” is wrong? Le dernier chalet avant le lieu du crime, face à une ferme. Et ce chalet, incroyable hasard, appartiendrait à un Anglais, un ancien de la RAF. Comme le témoin clé, ce cycliste qui a découvert la BMW
She doesn’t Dave, all I could see was self promotion, she is now plastered all over the Scotland yard blog.
Sorry I can’t get it at the moment.
I see Anders has been whingeing again.
BTW the Wiki Sayanim page comes up without a problem,maybe you should correct that on Icke ?
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayanim&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsayanim%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26prmd%3Dimvnsfd&sa=X&ei=q5dqUJWmDISf0QX23IC4BQ&ved=0CDoQ7gEwAg
@Dave Broker
You mean Shreen Ayob?
Sounds to me that she, like many bloggers for THP, is a Mossad agent, perhaps even a member of the kidon which killed al-Hilli et al.
Could well have gotten to know him because of fears that he was wandering off the anti-Saddam-Iranian reservation, and tipped them off, especially the Mossad, about what he was planning.
How else to explain her already working for THP before the massacre, and then conveniently claiming that SSTL was no defence contractor – what is apparently true, but is intended to cover up what SSTL and al-Hilli were really involved in?
Helps move discovery of the plot along.
Thanks.
Trow.
Shreen Ayob, said AH introduced himself to her.
@ nuid
2 Oct, 2012 – 12:44 am
Superb, very balanced post Nuid.
Shreen Ayob is an Iraqi Kurd whose parents fled Saddam’s regime which gives her something in common with AH. It would, I’d have thought, also make her an unlikely recruit for Mossad.
Agreed Kempe.
I do wonder how AH got her phone number……friend of a friend ?
And I think that Shreen Ayob, an anti-Saddam Kurd, was an ideal recruit for Meir Dagan’s Mossad, especially since it was most concerned about the reliability of other recruits, particularly when it came to their real sentiments about Iran.
Remember that the Pentagon caused two of the most devastating earthquakes during the Gulf Wars to keep Tehran onside.
And how her relationship with al-Hilli started, even if true as she alone claims, means nothing in the long run.
I remember when ‘Jihad Jane’ aka Colleen LaRose and Gwrhyr was trying to recruit me as her Muslim lover/assassin of Swedish cartoonist Lars Vilks.
She posted comments on The Local’s discussion section about the assassination of Olof Palme along the exact lines that I was claiming in the hope that we would strike up a relationship which she could exploit. She even posted that she wanted to have my babies.
When none of this worked, and she was facing the slammer in the States over the failed mission, she even sent me a personal message about a sexual liaison in most explicit terms but still with any response from me.
It’s SOP for covert intelligence agencies to make it look like the target was the initiator of any relationship.