I am off to Baghdad on Sunday for an Arab League conference on Palestinian detainees held in Israel. This is part of my determination to devote more of my time to helping the Palestinian cause. It seems to me we are at a crucial point where the Palestinians are in genuine danger of an accelerated genocide, as Israeli intentions to annex Est Jerusalem and the West Bank become ever plainer.
In retrospect, my life has mostly been based on the idea that I may not be able to do much to help in a particular situation, but it is incumbent on me to try. So I am trying.
A “two state” solution has, from the start, been advanced in bad faith by promoters such as Blair and Bush, with the intention always that it would be a Bantustan solution. For those too young to recall, the grand plan of apartheid South Africa was that the black population would be corraled into a number of small regions which would become “independent states”.
I have said before that I am often pleasantly surprised by Sky News security correspondent Sam Kiley, who seems to get away with talking great sense by hiding behind a Ross Kemp style persona. A couple of days ago he reported from the West Bank that Israel was “moving towards an apartheid state”. There is no doubt that is true – even in Israel proper, there are over three hundred ethnically based Israeli laws prescribing different treatment for Jews and others, across almost every activity of the state. I fear Sam Kiley will not be on mainstream TV long – a tendency to tell the truth being career fatal.
Bibi’s desire to kill off the two state solution is a terrible, genocidal threat but strangely also an opportunity. Botha and De Klerk did not succeed, and Bibi may not either. I personally would have deplored a Bantustan based solution, with crammed and split Palestinian lands deprived of resources, water, communications and any hope of economic viability.
The ultimate solution must involve a proper single state in Israel/Palestine which is blind and fair in its laws to race and religion. That solution can ultimately bring security to the people of Israel, not based on their ability to kill or evict their neighbours and steal their land. The essentials of the agreement will have to be most people staying where they are – including most West Bank settlers – and very serious compensation to dispossessed Palestinians, with the settlements enlarged to become mixed communities.
On the Palestinian detainee question, for me it shows up yet again Israel’s extraordinary capacity for shameless sophistry in matters of international law. Israel justifies its naval blockade on the San Remo Convention, which is only applicable in times of armed conflict. Israel states that it is in a de facto permanent armed conflict. However it denies being in an armed conflict when it comes to its treatment of Palestinain detainees, captured outside Israel, who are not treated as prisoners of war. Both positions cannot be held simultaneously, but secure in the collusion of the West’s bought politicians, Israel does so.
Mary 4.45 – Thanks for that. According to many posters in cyberspace, Israel was formed mostly by mostly Jews. Appreciate you clearing that up.
Herbie – Because $10,000 doesnt even come close to what their assets amount to. It’s not easy to give up generations worth of history for a measly $10,000.
Besides, I have no doubt that the majority of the (falling) Jewish population in Iran are quite happy where they are.
Oriel
“I think you will find that the majority of Israelis would rather move out of the WB in return for peaceful borders”
This is total garbage. The settlers are sick racist bigots who have no interest in peace. Their only interest is in ethnic cleansing and domination.
That’s kinda so obvious that you have to be trolling.
Oriel
How come the Jews in “evil” Iran are happy where they are whilst the muslims in “peaceful” Israel are not?
Eh?
Herbie – Calm down for a minute and read what I wrote. I said that the majority of Israelis would welcome the end of the Settlement activities. The settlers equate to all of 5% of the total population. You might find it hard to believe, but there is life outside of the WB
Herbie – Where have I said Iran was evil? I don’t think that at all. Generalising will get you no where
Herbie, you’re conversing with “Oniel” – “N” not “R”.
Iran treats its Jews far far better than Israel treats its muslims.
That’s obviously an understatement. There’s no language to describe Israel’s treatment of muslims.
Seems the Zionists upped their offer to $50.000 and still they don’t want to go live in Israel. Iran is better for Jews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA7yz2vciGk
Herbie – ” There’s no language to describe Israel’s treatment of muslims.” When was the last time you walked around Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and spoke to the local Arabs? For me, it was in September, and thy would laugh at you for that comment.
“Iran is better for Jews.” – Iran is better for IRANIAN Jews, I agree. It is their home, after all, but not because they are treated any better. That’s a silly thing to say, and I feel even you would know that
Oniel
Iran is porttrayed as evil. Israel is porttrayed as the best thing since sliced bread.
The opposite is obviously the case.
Anyway, how do you explain the fact that Iran is better for Jews than Israel is for muslims?
Is it because Israelis are fascist racist bigots and murdering scumbags?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA7yz2vciGk
Good luck, Craig, but do take care. The al Hilli story tells us that there are possibly some very dark forces at work which could conceivably be connected with this issue.
I think it is high time for all the peoples of Palestine to live together in love and harmony, with mutual respect and equal human rights, instead of what is increasingly coming to resemble the heinous concentration camps that inflicted so much misery not so long ago.
A single, secular democratic state has to be the long term answer.
What is the problem with that, Oniel?
Sorry, that should read “they would laugh….”
@Craig, good luck with your efforts.
Chomsky believes two states is now the only solution. In fact, he suggests those who currently advocate one state are (unwittingly) singing the us/israel tune by proposing the impossible (thus preserving the status quo).
He briefly discusses this at 32:15 of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXO8kHqmyzs
Herbie, this debate should be about One State vs. Two State solutions.
Herbie – Sorry, but I won’t be debating anything with you. Posters like you give a bad name to people with legitimate accusations against Israel.
Bye
Oniel
How come all these Rabbis have no problem with the Iranian leader but the racists and bigots in Israel do?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-r04SQ97_Q
Why isn’t all this stuff better known?
Isn’t Israel simply a gross perversion of Judaism, and a particularly evil, racist and murdering bigot one at that.
Eh?
Do you work for the BBC?
Oniel
Couldn’t give a monkey’s.
You’re a fraud, and you’ve been exposed as such.
Clark
The debate is about whatever issues are raised. I’ve simply answered the lies he/she raised.
Obviously the one state solution is all that is left. The Israelis have seen to that. That was their intention of course, since the beginning.
Mochyn69 – In principal, a 1 state solution where everyone could get along would be absolutely fine, and I don’t think anyone being honest with themselves could oppose that. But unfortunately, the history of the Jews in that region (as well as Europe) tells a different story. They have been persecuted time and again, and understandably, they feel they need their own right to self determination. I say this while also acknowledging that it shouldn’t be at the expense of the Arab population. The 20% of Arabs living in Israel proper share the same rights as the Jews (as in any democracy, you will find a few unacceptable examples of discrimination). This is why I believe that the WB and Gaza should become the new Palestinian state with Jerusalem as capital. Refugees in surrounding countries should be brought back into the new state of Palestine, and a final peace treaty signed with Israel.
Oniel
I’m on the same page as Norman Finklestein and innumerable other Jewish critics of Israeli barbarism.
You’re an apologist for evil.
Oniel Samuel, I used to moderate here, and I am ashamed at some of the comments that have been directed at you.
That said, many of the apparent supporters of Israel that have visited this site in the past have been at least as offensive as the comments you are encountering now. Also, here in the UK we live with constant propaganda in support of further wars in the Middle East, and much of that propaganda apparently aligns with the objectives of the Israeli right wing. Such deception and attempts at manipulation incite reaction. I am sorry that it falls upon you.
Clark – Thanks for the comment – Appreciated
Herbie, unless debate can be sustained, violence becomes the only option. Please ask direct, rather than rhetorical questions. The truth is powerful; trust it.
Ex-Guardian journalist, Jonathan Cook has been living in Nazareth for some time.
He provides all the background and miserable day-to-day stuff you’ll ever need.
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/
And here he gives a good backgrounder, unmasking the lies about the israeli state:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8v7GaSjlOA
Clark
There is no debate. We’re not at the debate stage yet.
We’re at the challenging the lies stage.
And. please don’t attempt to give me lessons on this.
Oniel, tel us what you have done to change the equation? do you get regularly searched and asked awkward questions when you enter Israel? do you have your laptop seized for days on end as other do?
I hear what you say about the secret flights, but the motivation by many was not that they were harassed when the world community agreed to Balfours fine words, but hat many were enthusiastic and wanted to move to Israel.
Tell us what you did to protest against the breaches of international laws of the sea and do you see Melanie Phillips, calling peaceful dead protesters terrorists, as an adequate voice of the diaspora?
sorry to badger you with questions, but it is vital that one understands each others motives.
Oniel,
Fair enough. But Irish Catholics have also been persecuted barbarically in their own country for centuries, but are hopefully moving towards the creation of a more equitable society, where hopefully on time the old hatreds can be eased.
Hopes for reconciliation and healing abound in many other conflict situations around the world.
What is so special about persecution of the Jews? And what about harsh treatment of th Mezaarim by the Ashkenazim? Where is that conflict headed?
Time to grow out of the victim mentality, I think.
You can say that again, but certainly not in the sense you understand it. Don’t take on the task of rebutting (ineffectually 🙂 ) all that is thrown at you here, people are just venting but with some justification, you’ll wear yourself out, relax. Time for me to go eat, then take a nap through the post-prandial dip.
Peace?
Herbie, the choice of notes make the music, I concur with Clark, there is no need for a broad brush stroke, do we really have to be at the same level as some arch Zionists who are sent/correspond to do damage here?
Only when we give leeway and allow a benefit of doubt will we get to the debating stage, as you call it.
Clark. You’re infected with unwarranted over protectiveness here. The comments towards O.S. are slightly quick tempered perhaps, but it’s understandable given his writings here and elsewhere e.g. with utter rubbish like “The 20% of Arabs living in Israel proper share the same rights as the Jews” or “Some 700k Arabs lost their homes in ’48” – like their abodes were misplaced (reminiscent of ZBC’s recent ‘Israeli’s’ killed, but “Gazans died” or was it Hamas militants died or Hamas terrorist militants died…??) or the owners became forgetful etc etc, so please, you’ve nothing to be ashamed of in the slightest. Herbie is correct in levering open the things that O.S. says which are nonsense.
Oniel, today’s hasbara troll, wrote: “I said that the majority of Israelis would welcome the end of the Settlement activities. The settlers equate to all of 5% of the total population. You might find it hard to believe, but there is life outside of the WB”
Here is such an example of life in Tel Aviv:
Racist protest in Tel Aviv targets refugees and migrants
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/04/racist-protest-in-tel-aviv-targets-refugees-and-migrants.html
“Racism in Israel is nothing new. There is racism against Palestinians, against Arabs, against non-Jews. There is racism between Jews from Europe and Jews from Arab countries. In our racism, we are no different from many other Western countries. However, the past year in Israel has seen an a significant increase in the number of racially motivated attacks on foreign workers and Palestinians by gangs of Jewish nationalists who seek to ‘cleanse Israel of non Jewish and dangerous elements.’ The problem is reaching endemic proportions as lawmakers have largely remained silent and the crimes continue unabated.”