Leveson: Wrong Answer to the Wrong Question

by craig on December 1, 2012 10:55 am in Uncategorized

I am with David Cameron and Rupert Murdoch in one respect on the Leveson report. British mainstream politicians are still more repulsive and self-seeking than the British mainstream media, and state regulation of the media, however modulated, is not good.

But Leveson was answering the wrong question.

The real problem is the ownership structure of UK mainstream media. Newspapers and broadcasters function as the propaganda tool of vast and intertwined corporate interests, shaping public opinion to the benefit of those corporate interests and ensuring popular support for politicians prepared to be complicit with those interests.

The only answer to this is to break up the corporate structure of the UK mainstream media. The legislative framework to do this is not difficult. What needs to be changed are the criteria. I would propose something like this; no organisation, state or private, should be allowed effective control of more than 20% of the national or regional newspaper market or the television market, or more than 15% of those combined markets.

The extraordinary thing is that Leveson specifically states that plurality issues do fall within his terms of reference, and that he must address them. He then completely fails to address them. At pages 29-30 of the executive summary of his report, he acknowledges that the current situation is unsatisfactory but makes no recommendations for change, only urging “Greater transparency on decision making on mergers”.

Leveson has provided us with the distraction of an argument about a regulatory body to look primarily at invasion of privacy abuse. The important factor for Leveson is not what Cameron or Clegg think of that idea. It is what Murdoch and the media corporations think of it, and the truth is that they could live with it, after huffing and puffing, because it would have zero effect on theirfinancial bottom line.

But what Leveson has totally failed to do – and doubtless never had the slightest intention of doing – was anything that hurts the corporate financial interests. Leveson’s failure seriously to address the question of media ownership and its use in the nexus of commercial and political interests is itself an appalling act of establishment collusion. Very successfully so – in all the “debate” going on about the regulatory body, the media ownership question has completely vanished. Brilliant.

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  1. When a report is over 2,000 pages you know that it is not going to be saying anything of substance, which is the whole point – to exonerate the guilty and allow the nation to “move on” to the next jaw-dropping example of political corruption and public incompetence coupled with an incurious media and inactive police force.

    If existing laws were observed then we would not need endless inquiries and investigations to find out “what went wrong”. What has gone wrong is perfectly self-evident.

  2. The only people that justly desire the reins of power be pulled in are those without it! Surprise surprise!

  3. One big problem, as I see it, relates to point 65 of the executive summary, where Leveson’s recommendations start. He calls for publishers to have a self-regulatory regime. This implies that publishers are scrupulous and have integrity. We have seen time and again that editors do not have a free hand to ‘publish and be damned’ as the saying used to go. They have to write what they fits in with the publishers’ policies. This goes right across the media. All outlets speak with the same voice. As Craig Murray pointed out the names of Anna Ardin, Sophia Wilen and Irmeli Krans cannot be mentioned in the MSM. In fairness there are no adequate recommendations Leveson can make because he is a tool of the establishment and he is not going to criticise the police (which he doesn’t) the law courts (who pay some of his salary) or the government (which pays the rest of his salary).

    The only way forward is for the public to listen to the lies but get their real news from reliable non MSM sources, like this blog and the Huff Post. Talking of which, how many people know of Don Siegelman. He is a former governor of Alabama. The rogue Karl Rove, who rigged the George W Bush false election, and called for Julian Assange to be extradited to Sweden, got Siegelman stitched up and banged up. But where do you read stories like this. Not in MSM.


    There’s a petition in this report which every decent American should sign.

  4. I think the internet and portable electronic readers (iPads etc) are slowly putting the nails in the coffins of the major newspapers. When very cheap high speed broadband makes its way into every home with smart tvs, the major broadcasters, including the BBC, and pay tv multicasters will go the same way. The ownership issue is very relevant but perhaps soon to be obviated or diminished by the march of technology.

    The current arrangement consists of very expensive infrastructure producing content to captive audiences. The internet, provided it remains relatively free, has eliminated the need for printing presses, distribution networks, brodcasting towers and their limited licencees, and private pay tv networks. With the liberation of readers and viewers from main stream media, the moguls will have little to offer politicians by way of favours and threats. But politicians will always want to control the message and without a cosy arrangement with a major news supplier who can deliver a captive audience, the message will be harder to contrive and push through to a naive audience.

    But we are also seeing the rise of ISPs as content providers, at least by offering special services to subscribers. Will they be the new MSM? Therefore it is absolutely essential that telecomms infrastructure is not allowed to be monopolised by content providers and restrictions placed on access by new providers.

  5. I’m not a normal person. When I’m in someone else’s home, I can tell if they’re normal people because if they are, the television is permanently on and there are newspapers lying around.

    Normal people want to know “what’s going on”, and to find out, they want some big entity to tell them. What they don’t want is to go and look for the information themselves. They don’t want to have to decide which issues to examine.

    Mainstream, corporate media is popular for the same reason that religions and political parties are popular.

  6. English Knight

    1 Dec, 2012 - 1:50 pm

    CM – “Very successfully so – in all the “debate” going on about the regulatory body, the media ownership question has completely vanished. Brilliant.”

    SPOT ON, and so has Coulsons hacking of Gordon Brown (and other Labour leaders) in box info to Cameron prior to the General Election, what won it for the Cons. Enough to bring a government down, worrying enough for Rupert Mordecai to write-off a whole £200m asset,NOTW !

    [Mod/Jon: Posted as “Lurker”, in fact this is English Knight]

  7. English Knight

    1 Dec, 2012 - 2:08 pm

    The very public Karl Rove hissy fit over Obomber lead in Ohio polls was in fact rage over the loss of the $50m price tag (paid out of his $380m super pac largesse) for rigging the digital vote that was clearly not being delivered by the “vendors”. Anonymous say the *vendors” made 105 unsuccessful attempts at the Anonymous revised password gate.

    [Mod/Jon: Posted as “Tid Bit”, in fact this is English Knight]

  8. conjunction

    1 Dec, 2012 - 2:18 pm

    You say leveson has answered the wrong question, and he failed to address the question of ownership. I was also very surprised he was so soft on the police. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I had thought the police took a large number of payments for information.

    However you yourself do not address the issue of privacy abuse, except to say you think regulation is inappropriate. Then are we to put up with phonetapping and continual libel of totally innocent people?

    I agree Leveson’s idea seems clumsy. An alternative would be to shut down the entire tabloid press as far as I am concerned but I suppose some people would not like that. Something however needs to be done.

  9. Conjunction

    I think that – as Ms Rebekah Brooks imminent spell in the pokey shows – the laws are quite adequate to deal with almost all this behaviour. The problem was the wiliness of a corrupt police and CPS to enforce them.

  10. Dick the Prick

    1 Dec, 2012 - 3:12 pm

    Is it wrong to kinda fancy Mizz Brooks? Hmm.. could do a specialist err… movie about her time in prison maybe. Brooks where the sun don’t shine, Brooks goes down, Brooks bound up, Brooks in kinky klinky… errr…I shall obtain my coat, taxi!

  11. Why is Lord Hunt taking the lead here? Who cares what he, the chair of the failed Press Complaints Commission, thinks. There are more than enough Hunts around than are good for us anyway.

    Leveson: Lord Hunt calls for press regulator within months

  12. I agree with you that its too important to get wrong, but to effing waste these amounts of money on hot air and trying to justify it to those who pay for these ‘jolly good fun inquiries’ only shows how removed you are from public opinion.

    The law to prosecute those who have failed to live up to self regulation has existed, in perpetual darkness in a closed cupboard, and despite the theatrical hand wringing now, it has not been applied. Self regulation has failed and Cameron is a wimp for calling this inquiry ‘utterly mad’ his implicit conclusions.

    I do not agree that ownership should matter, these rags sell here and are accountable here.

    My only reservations is with those who will oversee the regulations as proposed, their probity and allegiances to party politics must not get in the way.

    My suggestions to 38degrees was, to implement ‘trying to be accountable’ adopting Levensons full recommendation for a period of ten years, followed by an Independent review, ideally not by the body that oversees the adherence. After that, either implement it or discard it.

    Further OFSCUM should be paid for by the media barons, not those taxpayers who are wronged, slurred and falsely accused on an almost daily basis.

  13. @Clark

    I think you’re saying that people want their news to be easy – like their politics, religion and football team – ie prepackaged, recognisable branding, popular among their self-identified demographic, just add water. That’s true to some extent but it ignores the many of us who use smart devices and apps, and seek to try new and different experiences, including news sources. For others, the news they watch is from sources that tell them what they want to hear – Israel is Evil, Arabs are Evil, Capitalism is Evil, Bill Gates is Evil, Lindsay Lohan is Evil. They look for a source that reinforces their views about the world, because that’s easy, it’s comforting. It then comes down to what people want from their “news” – to be entertained, comforted or informed.

  14. @ Tidbit 2.08pm

    “… Karl Rove hissy fit over… rigging the digital vote that was clearly not being delivered by the “vendors”. Anonymous say the *vendors” made 105 unsuccessful attempts at the Anonymous revised password gate.”

    How’s it go again? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Bravo, Anonymous! Sterling work there.

  15. Any Questions. Dame P. N-J. gives dark warning in plummy threatening tones, that if people want to regulate newspapers they should prepare themselves for being regulated on the net.
    Fact is, no political mind in the universe can resist the secret and forbidden power of spying on others. The problem lies in people\s iman/faith. A difficult thing to regulate through government especially when government itself is the keenest of spiers and controllers of people through spying. Lie, Lie, and keep on lying until they are convinced you are telling the truth.
    An utterly cynical piece of camouflage by the lion and his unicorn Cameron and Clegg. Leveson spiked in both senses of the word. Was there a time when only dictators and communists retained power through spying? Cameron is blackmailed up to his eyeballs by the press and its owners and interests. Therefore freedom must be compulsory for all.

  16. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Dec, 2012 - 4:28 pm

    I believe it was Mary who referred to this in the last thread.


    CISPA still lurks in the shadows. The Internet is the true security threat; ergo, it must be controlled. Authoritarians must have control of the population at large.

  17. I must say I thought a similar thing, I did not totally get the bit where he said the often victim’s don’t know therefore there needs to be another body. Surly if the police really wanted to look they could find out if they are hacking phones etc, hard to believe they did not know. I think it seems in many cases it’s more that people don’t come forward because they know these are powerful forces.

    I find it hard to endorse a justice system I don’t believe in, i’e based on punishment, but it still does provides a useful function of bringing to account I guess.

    The problem is the massive level of corruption in all these institutions, it’s you scratch my back i’ll scratch yours. It’s just a job, and when that’s what is important about it that is the bottom line. Keeping it and getting on. Or a society full of self serving imorral bastards depending on how you see it.

    I do see this as a bit of a waste, because again we see it’s about handing powers to select groups, not encouraging society to do the job. It’s us who needs to keep on top of there nasty secret business, in the government, press and police.

    I mean come on, It was a LORD enquiry, a public enquiry would have come up with something like as you said Craig, Corporate media, wrong reasons, Don’t watch or support it.

    IMO If you don’t want to be complicit stop paying your TV licence and don’t watch it, don’t read corporate press and maybe try and support independent and less bloated organisations. Another factor is the money these people have and the power that buys them, and the influence, the circles they all move in etc.

    All of this is totally missed as we should expect, i’m sure a real public enquiry would have decided to get rid of lords while were at, style of thing.

    People don’t see the damage this class system does. The power it gives to the few. And it’s not us that are the real issue, we don’t have the power to hide many ill’s as they do. We have to get on with the neighbours and largely still live with each-other. These people don’t have to, they can pick and choose where they go and who they see and often stand behind the curtain of law in ways we never could.

    You know, society is painted as shit flowing up from the bottom and we need all these institutions and power to set them straight. But historically it mostly comes from these places, It’s the powerful. And addressing this issue is absolutely critical. More than anything I think this is an ideology we must fight, more than the type of system you believe in it’s this idea that society should be profoundly weighted in terms of power to a tiny minority.

    And notice, that’s what they suggest, give a tiny minority some powers to do something. You can’t fix it within a fucked society unless your willing to support real grass roots influence. And that would really change things, they defiantly don’t want it.

    It’s like a country full of dinosaurs, ‘Nuke the Afghan border’ or maybe ‘bring me a child of 14’ anything goes in these people strange heads. ‘Make sure that President does not get elected, we want to stick it to that ‘rapist’ Assange.’

    What utter utter twistedness.

    Let’s hope the centre can’t hold for all the victim’s of there sick imaginings of domination and subjection.

  18. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Dec, 2012 - 4:53 pm

    “IMO If you don’t want to be complicit stop paying your TV licence and don’t watch it, don’t read corporate press and maybe try and support independent and less bloated organisations. Another factor is the money these people have and the power that buys them, and the influence, the circles they all move in etc.”

    Although I agree with your overall point, I think the above suggestion is reflexive and counter-productive. You may have meant, ‘stop putting trust in that information’; and that would be more instructive. If you sector information into the wastebin without consideration, it works to disadvantage. I could expand but perhaps a quote would suffice;

    “Keep your friends close; enemies closer”

  19. If Julian Assange means what he says, he should also encourage people to encrypt their emails and, no doubt it is possible somehow, encourage websites to do the same.

    Clark has been periodically going on about encryption and we both are exchanging encrypted emails, there’s no reasons to make it easy for these control freaks, is there?

  20. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Dec, 2012 - 5:07 pm

    Nevermind; I’ve a bit of Islamic philosophy I employ; “It is written…”

    If a bullet has my name on it, there’s nothing I can do to stop it.

  21. Ben, off course not, but you can scream loud if it fails to hit the right spot, or ensure that you take a few of them with you.

  22. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Dec, 2012 - 5:38 pm

    Nevermind; Or, you can be the outlier who draws attention. I get lost in the crowd, and there is safety in numbers. When I use an anonymizer, I am easily seen because the ip in ‘unknown’. Do I have something to hide? No, but it could appear so.

  23. KISS – no company can own more than one national newspaper, or have any cross ownership of television, radio, newspaper

  24. Thanks Ben, I see your point. As a centre of power I guess it’s not about just ignoring them, but I also think these people thrive on the attention.

    Maybe it depends who is looking also, and why. I think for many people who don’t have the time for research or who don’t do activism it’s more confusing than enlightening. And I would consider further the issue of actually paying into these corporations…

    I guess I was also looking at what would be a good public strategy if it was a real public enquiery. Yes it’s fine for us to know what’s going on deeper but there are many who still influence the situation who are not going to become participants, and for those people more I think an enquiry would actually recommend people found other media.

    Many are essentially about getting your view. And while I think it’s good for some to pay close attention we need to recognize things most people can do to make a diffidence.

    I would have said it’s up to you, the public, change your gaze. You’ll fell a lot better not having these authoritarian types shoving ‘truth’ in your face all day, save money, and help really hold them to account.

    It would have been devastating, like saying the truth which is we have systemic corruption through concentrations of wealth and power that cuts right though these institutions. And it would have said it can’t be fixed much without radical change in ownership, a press that’s run for and by the public, that functions in a different arena.

    Democracy Now I find pretty good, and it’s not like the UK has any real independence atm so you may as well find out what’s going on there as it’s critical to what’s going on here anyway.

    Somehow I don’t think UK column will reach very far in it’s current form but i’m glad to have come across it, front-line club can be good, and very bad imo. Again though it’s ok for us to pick a dozen, and study history, but there is nothing strong enough to be something better most people can turn to.

    I was going to say we do have lots of good journalists, but really I think we actually have cult of celebrity ‘good journalists’ who never get most of there stuff seen and are used by these corporations, and they like it. They don’t have to do any of the real nasty and hard stuff and there owners don’t want them to, nor the government. But as agents of change, in getting to hard truth’s you’d have to say there flipin useless..

    Just look at the Palestine coverage of late. And it’s not lost on me that a devout Jew is heading an enquiry into press conduct at this time. One that seems to be an abject failure to do anything that will mean anything.

    I’m sure it’s just coincidence.

  25. Yes, Leveson was answering the wrong question. Who was it said “a Spy in every newsroom”. And then there is the now proven existence of I/Ops, that MI6 unit whose purpose is to manipulate the press. How can a democracy operate where the voters pay taxes to fund a spy agency whose job is to manipulate the press and keep the truth from them. Once a Government agency starts manipulating journalists – and journals – your freedom is gone since you don’t know which articles you are reading are honest reporting and which are propoganda manipulated by the security/intelligence apparatus.

  26. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Dec, 2012 - 6:49 pm

    “I would have said it’s up to you, the public, change your gaze. You’ll fell a lot better not having these authoritarian types shoving ‘truth’ in your face all day, save money, and help really hold them to account”

    Indeed, DUNO. It’s not without reason the masses are referred to as ‘sheeple’. They are either too busy to vet the data, or too lazy. The forces for getting the truth out have always been in the minority, and yes, there are good journos, but again, with minority status.

    Truly if a majority of viewers/readers called the Media on their crap, market forces would intervene.

    But, that’s not gonna happen under current economic stresses. Part of the issue is the underclasses are working two jobs, or more. Time is at a premium, and that’s part of the strategy.

  27. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Dec, 2012 - 7:05 pm

    The poor and the financially struggling are essential to the continuation of the power of Authoritarianism.

    “I can always hire half the working class to kill the other half—-Jay Gould

    “The only reason the rich keep the poor around is to scare the crap out of the middle class and keep them going to work” George Carlin.

  28. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Dec, 2012 - 7:05 pm

    must say ‘adieu’ for now.

  29. I did not know he was ‘devout’. Also a privy councillor.

    He attended the same school as Lord Hunt of Press Complaints Commission fame, Liverpool College.


    Hunt is seven years older than Leveson and is presumably Jewish as he is the Hon Vice President of the Holocaust Education Trust. The HET send school children to visit Auschwitz amongst other activities. Their income is over £2m. £1.8m comes from the government via the Dept for Education and Skills. See accounts. Page 13


    From their website

    Holocaust education in the UK

    The Holocaust is today part of every child’s formal education in England. The principal way in which children will learn about the Holocaust is through the National Curriculum for History.

    The National Curriculum

    In England, by law children are to be taught about the Holocaust as part of the Key Stage 3 History curriculum. This usually occurs in Year 9 (age 13-14). While academy schools do not have to follow this syllabus, it is assumed that they will deliver Holocaust education as part of a “balanced and broadly based” curriculum. Similarly, although independent schools are not obliged to deliver the National Curriculum, many in fact do.

    Although there is no formal requirement for Holocaust education in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, participation in the Trust’s Outreach programme and Lessons from Auschwitz project as well as programmes sponsored by other organisations suggests that the Holocaust is widely taught nonetheless.

  30. It’s really quite amusing to see the outrage in the corporate-controlled “news” media, warning us sheeple about the dangers of government control over that media. It’s a very similar distraction as the false “arguments” between the major political parties; an internal power struggle that fails to benefit the public whichever way it plays out.

    Assange, in the article linked to above, is right; the Internet gives us much greater freedom of communication and news sources, but at the cost of being spied upon by the corporate / government system to an unprecedented extent. Truly total surveillance:


    Ha! Subversion of the Internet in practice. A few weeks ago I located the article above by a Google search on the word “Scroogled”; the Cory Doctorow article appeared at the top of Google’s search results, with loads of re-posts of the same article below. Since then, Microsoft have appropriated the word to denigrate Google versus their own Bing search engine. Try searching on “Scroogled” now; Cory Doctorow’s article has been relegated to the fifth page of results.

  31. What we need are breakaways. A bunch of (potentially) good journalists and writers just get together and say we are going to try this…

    It’s quite annoying to a very poor person like myself, seeing theses quite well off and well known journalists lapping around the the same old centres of power. If a few of them just clubbed together i’m sure they could create a significant alternative.

    I have some hope with the mass of young people now entering this filed at this time will see the opportunity to expand the craft that’s more like good journalism used to be, it will get it’s meaning back and will be a far more rewarding practice.

    I often worry about the path i’v chosen as an artist, but the point is i’m doing something I really do care about. And despite the issues I am doing it.

    @Mary, well it was just an observation based on quick research. I was not trying to be specific.

    Glad you posted that info though. I wonder if there taught about Iraq now, or the slow genocide we are going along with Israel in. IMO what they should be learning is how the US and the UK have done arguably 10 times more killing and destruction than the Nazis ever could.

    I found John Taylor Gatto’s work interesting on education, and I do now know more just how “balanced and broadly based” it all was. I’m still getting over this now.

    Like why for instance should I feel it wrong to say something potentially bad or something that may suggest a bias agenda, conscious or not, that a Jewish person may have? Are they not the same as the rest of us?

    I can happily slag off Americas, British, Christians etc but them Jewish indaviduals are just beyond reproach.

    Well right or wrong i’m allowed to think what I want about anyone, and I will say it. And if the ‘Jewish’ (Israel) state is anything to go buy there actions of murder and calling for murder (war) are far beyond what I would even consider really doing against individuals I may find issues with.

    It really shows just how manufactured our society is, the difficulty we have even talking about some things, Yet the state that manufactures it is the antithesis of justice. And it does it in the name of justice.

  32. alltogethernow, not too difficult same melody as Quantanamera.
    one Holoooocauhaust, there’s only one Holocaust, one Holocauuuuhaust, there’s only one Holocauuuhost.

    Its simple, not many other words needed like Armenian, Cambodian, or Rwandan, or Japanese nuclear Holocaust.
    Has Israel applied to the EU yet, to have their Holocaust protected by consumer rights? like Parma ham and Eccles cakes.
    Do they have a Holocaust protection and development programme? a Gaza Holocaust research and activity centre?

    What of an Iranian Holocaust, or a Syrian one? I’m sure there are some financial incentives to be gained from the Holocaust specialist and arms dealers, buy one Holokill get another one completely free.

    What of the speciality, the applied child holocaust, the near kill through the mouth and the burn em’ alive Holoroasti, I’m sure our children must surely want to learn that one. If not, then they will be told or…..

  33. I tend to agree with your comments viz limits on media ownership. It should apply to the BBC too. I also think that it should be universal. It should apply to banks and car companies, Gas Utilities and ISP’s. 15% or 20% of any market should be plenty for anyone in such a huge economy as Europe.

    I too wonder how it is that the law applies to ordinary folks, but not to MP’s or to giant corporations, or to journalist hackers. Scales of Justice, open up your eyes.

    We really shouldn’t be starting from here.

  34. “Newspapers and broadcasters function as the propaganda tool of vast and intertwined corporate interests, shaping public opinion to the benefit of those corporate interests and ensuring popular support for politicians prepared to be complicit with those interests.”

    Exactly. Very well said. However, simply passing ownership to a broader corporate base will not even interrupt the mechanisms that result in propaganda.

    A more radical solution is required.

  35. Way back when the phone-hacking scandal kicked off, Brian Gerrish (of UK Column) warned us to keep an eye on the Media Standards Trust. They are a self-elected media watchdog, composed of the usual suspects (eg Julia Middleton, head of Common Purpose) and funded by the usual suspects (eg Rothschilds).
    So keep an eye on them I have done. They have been making the correct noises throughout, positioning themselves as “honest brokers” and establishing themselves as an authoritative voice in the proceedings. Indeed, their chairman even ‘resigned’ his post to join the Leveson Enquiry.
    Every word they utter oozes secret agenda and ulterior motive.
    If they end up being the backbone of the new “independent body” which Leveson recommends the media should set up to regulate themselves, then I will suspect that that was the purpose of the entire sorry saga.

    You too can keep an eye on them here:

  36. Thing is, there are some good lessons from the German experience we should be learning about, I don’t agree with the hoax idea but it certainly seems overblown in comparison to the many other wars, most which contain some form of ethnic ‘cleansing’, after all that’s why they are waged, to divide..

    It does seem all the ‘education’ about the Jewish holocaust is overblown, maybe it’s less conspiratorial and just the fact that we know so much about it and the evidence is overwhelming, It’s repellent to people, understandably, but that leads to ( or influences ) this exception idea. But just because we don’t see the other atrocity’s it does not mean there not just as bad…

    And if you think about it, these lessons not being learned is a disservice to Jewish people as well as to the ongoing victims of the same basic thing.

    It was the same basic idea of the exceptional that Tony Blair used, that the British are ‘special’, ‘I know it, they know it’ etc etc. I have not been able to find that video but I think it was broadcast around the time of the invasion of Iraq, It has lots of flying shots over the white cliffs along with his sickening rhetoric.

    It gets me that many people have this kind of attitude in the uk, and don’t think there strange. It’s not about saying Britain is worse overall, or that we should feed down on ourselves as a culture, it just means we are just the same and just as susceptible under certain circumstances, as Tolken noted, in many cases it’s not a matter of that you may be corrupted, it’s saying this kind of (perceived) power WILL corrupt anyone.

    I think as a society (certainly me as an individual) are still coming to terms with Iraq.

    I was thinking earlier, considering things like Lord Gilbert’s recent rhetoric (along with other things were learning about our elite lately) that such arrogance will lead to a big slip up. But reflecting on it I think the big slip up was in 2003 and it is still sinking in. The worrying thing is for some it clearly has not stared sinking in. they seem obligated to screw people over, ‘deafening the realm’ no doubt…

    Maybe we could make the UK like a theme park, “Walking with Dinosaurs!”. ‘Come and see how nothing has really changed after all these years’, ‘where strange beings from another age still live as they did centuries ago’. I think it’s just the kind of tourism boost we need…

  37. That cute little QC from Liberty, Shami Chakrabarti, ex Home Office barrister and an alumna of the British American Project is on Marr giving us all the inside info on Leveson. She was on his panel of course.

  38. We are told.

    Leveson report proposals ‘would be illegal’ Shami Chakrabarti was one of six advisers assisting the Leveson Inquiry

    The Leveson report
    Report at a glance
    Victims react
    After Leveson – what now?
    What papers say

    A key adviser to Lord Justice Leveson says his proposal for compulsory press regulation would be illegal because it would breach the Human Rights Act.

    The judge’s report recommended an independent self-regulatory body for the industry, backed up by legislation.

    But Shami Chakrabarti, of civil rights group Liberty, told the Mail on Sunday she could not support such legislation.

    She said the press was “being coerced in being held to higher standards than anyone else”.


    Now Huge Grant (pressure group Hacked Off) is on Marr plus John Whittingdale on a link.

    See {http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/whittingdale-wades-in/}

  39. o/t sorry
    I might have given the wrong impression to some that I deny the Holocaust, I don’t, but its is a horse that has been ridden to death, an industry and convenient label to pull out.

    Its priory over any other massacre/genocides is out of all proportions and the worldwide establishment of ‘Holocaust centres’ is equally macabre, you do not need these to teach children of politicians mistakes, all it achieves is to divert attention from all other nastyness that has been festering societies for decades.

    It has happened alright, but humanity made sure that it happened everywhere., it is not a problem only centred on the jews.

    Try googling what happened at Cow Tower, Norwich in 1411 and you know that this progrom started early and was a European disease, to teach children that the bad ol’ nazi’s did it, is taken history in bits.

  40. http://www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/

    It’s absurd and repugnant the daily the onslaught of pointless information.

    Yes agreed Craig wrong questions.

    Who? Why? What for?

    They give the reader what they want.

  41. There seems to be a desire among politicians to talk of *The* Holocaust as a means of firewalling this sort of thing, relegating it to the realms of an ugly, never to be repeated history – except it is being repeated daily. Similar hypocrisy surrounds the Cenotaph service and all the other hooptedoodle around Poppy Day.

    The Nazis are proposed as some sort of limiting and exceptional evil: nothing can ever be that bad again, nothing now is that bad. This bogus relativism is sometimes unpleasantly obvious.

  42. DUNO at 1 Dec, 4:45 pm

    “Surly if the police really wanted to look they could find out if they are hacking phones etc, hard to believe they did not know. I think it seems in many cases it’s more that people don’t come forward because they know these are powerful forces.”

    There was no technical skill required in “phone hacking”. No security was broken. It should never have been referred to as “hacking”. The victims’ phones were never involved.

    Mobile phone accounts are supplied with a voicemail facility, whereby messages are recorded and stored at the phone company on their equipment. Your voicemail messages are not stored in your mobile phone; that wouldn’t be possible if the call went unanswered because your phone’s battery was discharged or because you were in a place with no signal. So messages never reach your phone; they just get stored at your phone company.

    To retrieve your messages, your phone calls a number supplied by your phone company, connecting to the voicemail equipment. This equipment identifies the number of your phone, and makes any stored messages to that number available from an audio menu system.

    However, you can also retrieve your messages from any other phone. In this case, you call a different number supplied by your phone company. The first step in the menu system asks you to key in the number of your own phone (rather than the number you are calling from). You are then asked to key in your Personal Identification Number (PIN), after which your messages are made available just as if you were calling from your own phone.

    The problem was that phone companies issued the same PIN to all their customers, so anyone who knew how could listen to or delete the messages of any other phone user who hadn’t changed their PIN, just by calling the right number, keying in the victim’s number instead of their own when asked, and then entering the default PIN.

    So there was no suspicious activity to detect. Each instance of “phone hacking” looked identical to a person legitimately retrieving their own messages from someone else’s phone.

  43. Our friendly ambassador to Israel was at the unveiling of a statue of Winston Churchill in Jerusalem earlier last month.

    ‘British Ambassador Matthew Gould, speaking both as Her Majesty’s representative in Israel and as a proud member of the Jewish community of Britain, said that it was “absolutely right” that the memory of Winston Churchill be honored in Jerusalem, when he stood so firmly for the Jewish people and the Jewish homeland.

    “He stood up for the rights of the Jewish people to a Jewish homeland long before it became fashionable – if it was ever fashionable,” said Gould, who noted Churchill’s passionate stand against anti-Semitism.

    Gould was also critical of the fact that Churchill has not been honored sufficiently in Israel, that his story is not told enough, and that his contribution to the Zionist enterprise is not sufficiently well known.

    Daniel Taub, the British-born Israeli Ambassador to the Court of St. James, referred to the esteem in which Churchill was held by Israeli leaders.’

    Jerusalem unveils bust of Sir Winston Churchill
    Former British leader remembered as friend of Jewish people at ceremony in the capital

  44. “One of the biggest nails in the coffin in recent years is the advent of ground penetrating radar which was eagerly deployed in it’s early days to locate the various reported mass graves (containing both ashes and bodies) at the camp sites. This was done out of a desire to formally mark the areas out as a permanent memorial to the victims. After extensive searching at multiple sites no evidence of ground disturbances of the scale expected could be found.”

    I don’t know where you’re getting this stuff from but it’s totally wrong.


  45. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Dec, 2012 - 2:55 pm

    “Strauss had studied ancient Greek texts, which emphasized among other things that “within democracy there is good and bad, free and slave,” and that “democracy can produce a slavish mind and a slavish country.” The political task before every generation, Mr. Mansfield understood, is to “defend the good kind of democracy. And to do that you have to be aware of human differences and inequalities, especially intellectual inequalities.”

    “American elites today prefer to dismiss the “unchangeable, undemocratic facts” about human inequality, he says. Progressives go further: “They think that the main use of liberty is to create more equality. They don’t see that there is such a thing as too much equality. They don’t see limits to democratic equalizing”—how, say, wealth redistribution can not only bankrupt the public fisc but corrupt the national soul.”


    Even with minimal outside interference, our Republic has evolved in baby steps. A hundred years after liberty was staked out, African slaves finally received their paper freedom, which did not provide fruit until a century later (1964).

    As my namesake said when asked what the Founders had produced: “You have a Republic, if you can keep it”

  46. @Nevermind

    What did happen at Cow Tower? I can’t find it.

  47. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Dec, 2012 - 3:29 pm

    “The Pentagon will send hundreds of additional spies overseas as part of an ambitious plan to assemble an espionage network that rivals the CIA in size, U.S. officials said.

    The project is aimed at transforming the Defense Intelligence Agency, which has been dominated for the past decade by the demands of two wars, into a spy service focused on emerging threats and more closely aligned with the CIA and elite military commando units.”


    Some have asserted JFK was assassinated for threatening to break the CIA into a ‘million pieces’ after they screwed him on the Bay of Pgs. His intent was to make the Pentagon sole proprietor for covert operations.

    Now we have CIA, NSA and DIA as competing agencies with all the sectored, territorial squabbles to further the Fog of Intel. Nice.

  48. “This story could be a mortal threat to the holocaust orthodoxy”

    Well I haven’t even looked into these specifics. And i’m not going to. I know there are many living people with relives who where killed. You want you argue about how and just what happened. ?

    This is not a threat to orthodoxy, let alone a mortal threat.

    Yes, as I said before, it has been comparatively overblown IMO. It’s the kind of thing we should expect, this being the England..

    Sometimes I wonder if these people who seem to want to downplay this to a large degree aren’t in fact just working to get the opposition going so we can lay out all the stuff to make it seem exceptional…

    I think part of the reason it seems exceptional is the Germans like the British and other powers never dreamed the internet would come about as it has. They did things without to much worry, states had tight control of media and I think they thought they could hide it from history, like many things they did hide quite well before.

    So though there are few of these events today, mass shootings etc, like in Spain and many other places back then, the murder is just as bad now except it’s not done as obviously.

    The thing I think there still getting wrong is the plausible dependability they think they have in these more modern cases. They still live in this fantasy land where they can control the narrative, where they still have real power. IMO they don’t, they have a monopoly of force and that’s about it. A discredited press is not really helping them either.

    The rest of the world looks on and it’s like they haven’t noticed.

  49. Well first you claim no graves have been found and then when one has been found it’s not big enough.

    The pit described was only one of several and clearly from it’s shape was not a bomb crater. At 4 metres deep it could contain the ashes of 500,000 people.

    More reading for you:-


  50. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Dec, 2012 - 4:46 pm

    “JERUSALEM, Dec. 2 (UPI) — Israel will continue to build in Jerusalem and anywhere considered to be in its strategic interest, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said in Jerusalem Sunday.

    Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/12/02/Netanyahu-Israel-will-build-everywhere/UPI-68261354452122/#ixzz2Duj0vScC

  51. It’s a tremendous relief to discover that perhaps only one million Jews were murdered. There was silly old me thinking that there had been some sort of unpleasantness! Whew!

  52. “There was no technical skill required in “phone hacking”. No security was broken. It should never have been referred to as “hacking”. The victims’ phones were never involved.”

    I worked for a wee while as a penetration tester, which I’m sorry to report is much less exciting than it sounds. Circumventing firewalls, intrusion detectors and other digital gadgetry is a hobby, not a profession. You have to be very clever to pursue this hobby, and it helps if you don’t mind failing. But if you seriously want to get to the information that an organisation holds then you don’t bother with any of that silly stuff. You walk through the front door (or that unattended door nearby, which is always there) browse through the offices, cabinets and cupboards, collect what you need and leave. You will be out and away with the goodies before the acne-faced nerd with his port scanning tool has even figured out which firewall he is dealing with. It’s a matter of fact that most organisations have poor physical perimeter security. The hacker who is paid by results goes always for the simple physical and human, not the complicated games of the techo-freak hobbyists, although such creatures have their uses.

    A primary entry of the technical hacker is the unpatched operating system: known software weaknesses which have not been repaired, or ‘patched’. Working your way into an organisation through people and their ordinary failings is called ‘social engineering’. I have a T-shirt which says: ‘SOCIAL ENGINEER – BECAUSE THERE IS NO PATCH FOR HUMAN STUPIDITY’.

    So I think yes, what they are doing is hacking, and it’s hacking of the most effective sort. Very professional, very results orientated, not at all interesting technically.


    Answered your question about facial recognition software on the other thread.

  53. In case you missed it great script writing recounting the nsa.

    Good will Hunting.


  54. I’ll bet that “Heretic” = “Holohoax” = “Hasbaric hissy fit”, busily sock-puppeting, busily denying the Jewish holocaust; a familiar figure in this comments section who used to go by “Apostate”, “Steelback”, “Freeborn”, etc. etc. etc..

    Look, anonymous coward Puppeteer, your theory makes no sense. Fascism was popular before WWII. Not just in Germany but in many countries. In the UK, the Daily Mail openly supported Oswald Mosely’s Blackshirts. Hitler declared his hatred of Jews long before he attained power. Eugenics was respectable. Hitler’s troops wore the Death’s Head insignia.

    The thing that makes your viewpoint so repulsive is that it contradicts so much personal testimony. All those people would have to be conspiring to support the lie. That is why your assertions imply that you also believe Jews in general to be unprincipled to the point of being evil.

    Just fuck off from this blog. How many times do you need to be told?

  55. “Just fuck off from this blog.”

    His case is that only one, or perhaps a few, million were killed, and it’s no big deal. Six million (by some maths he doesn’t explain) would be a problem, so he doesn’t accept that number, but somewhere between that and one million the moral function passes through a point of inflection. To one side of that point it’s a crime, on the other it’s pretty much OK. It seems to me (narrow in experience and perspective) that this is an optimisation problem. How many Jews is it OK to kill? (give your answer in millions, please). And does this rule generalise to non-Jews? There are people in London (called politicians) who are instrumental in the murder of hundreds of thousands, almost none of them Jews. Can you suggest some kill rate at which we ought to become concerned at this behaviour? Show us the maths, factoring in Judaeism if you can.

    Oh, almost forgot. And then fuck off.

  56. I have very strong views on the history of the Holocaust but I’m not going to explain them here. It’s not the topic of this thread, and besides, this subject has been thrashed out on this blog many times without anyone changing their minds.

    What will happen is poor overworked Jon will have to take the time to slap your wrists and delete some of the comments and explain yet again why he’s doing so. If this keeps happening, measures will have to be introduced to control it which will place restrictions on all of us that enjoy this blog. I like things the way they are. It’s up to us all to exercise some self-restraint. If you want to continually rehash this subject, find an appropriate forum. There are many.

  57. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Dec, 2012 - 9:09 pm

    A Node; Change is the archetype of human beans. Of the three; Opinions, attitudes and Beliefs…..Beliefs are the granite of change.

  58. This article makes an assumption that Osborne possesses the ability to deal with the situation.

    ‘Fall in consumer confidence hits the UK

    New research today also reveals the extent to which the squeeze on households is having an impact on the wider economy. The fall in consumer confidence, since the start of the recession, has resulted in a loss of consumer spending of £8.4bn – enough to buy half a million new cars. In the last year alone, low consumer confidence in their own personal financial situation, has cost the economy £420m.

    The latest Which? Consumer Insight Tracker has also found:
    A third (32%) of people are finding it difficult to cope on their current level of income.
    Consumers’ top worries are the price of food (85%), energy (85%) and fuel (78%).
    Two thirds of people are worried about future tax levels (68%), interest rates on their savings (68%), the value of their pension (68%) and public spending cuts (64%).

    Ahead of the government’s Autumn statement, Which? executive director Richard Lloyd said: ‘With 10 million households feeling the squeeze and consumer confidence low, it’s more important than ever that the Chancellor is doing everything possible in his Autumn Statement to boost consumer confidence, which is vital to our economic recovery.’

  59. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Dec, 2012 - 10:01 pm

    I eschew the hedonism of those who equate ‘austerity’ as though equivalent merit for those to whom a 1% reduction in income results in a choice between meds and food=another income strata which sees equanimity in sacrificing to the extent of giving up a few Cuban cigars and a 5th of Louis XIII cognac….

    Quid Pro Quo.

  60. sorry phil, have been out all day, moving chickens a stressful time for these little darlings, just as for us. Then I watched Norwich win against the Sunderland Geordies 2-1, a treat, it was a good game, but cold.

    Phil please disregard, I was of the wrong impression that my historical knowledge of Cow Tower Norwich in 1411 would show up on the internet. It was the year the Jewish progrom started in Norwich.
    I cannot find it and shall have to look into the real annals in Norwich castle museum, sorry for leading you up the garden path.

  61. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Dec, 2012 - 11:06 pm


    You seem attached to your hatchlings. As one who is considering the sense of chicken coops, let me ask; How do you deal with your ‘lazy layers’.? I ask because me spouse gets attached to hatchlings :)

  62. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Dec, 2012 - 11:17 pm

    A word to the wise should be sufficient. Those of you who have not seen or heeded my simple Faraday Cage, should consider. 33 gallon galvanized ash can with copper lead to copper stake driven into ground.


  63. Some relevant stuff talked about here.


    The rest of the conference is good also.

  64. Global crisis in a nutshell:-


  65. “What did happen at Cow Tower? I can’t find it.”

    Try Clifford’s Tower and York.

  66. “European Union member states are preparing to fight as a bloc alongside the United States to prevent a move by Russia and countries in Africa to impose a levy on internet traffic and make it easier to track users’ activities.”


    Once the mainstream media make the leap to the internet, expect all sorts of efforts to choke off minor competition and independent commentary until it resembles something like the current paradigm.

  67. TfL covered up the state of the Hammnersmith flyover. The rest of the report does nothing to inspire confidence in some other concrete structures especially in the light of the Japanese tunnel collapse at the weekend.

    Best to stay at home and hide under the duvet. :)

    TfL report warned of Hammersmith Flyover collapse
    Hammersmith Flyover is used by 90,000 vehicles a day

    A major London road remained open for weeks after a report warned of a small risk it could collapse at any moment.


  68. I am afraid if you had restrictions on ownership,who would want a newspaper?
    You would be left with local council free sheet propaganda,or other sponsored papers.Would that be better?
    Nobody forces you to believe what you read.

  69. @Ben O/T lazxy layers,I’m only a novice, one reads, are mostly down to too much feeding.
    try this for info looks good.

  70. This will make the 729 barcode protests even more popular a ridiculous affair. why has Palestine got to use Israel as the tax collecting authority, when they could ask Egypt?

    Point is, that Israel has seized all records of state when the incarcerated 69 Hamas MP’ after the initial election some years back, again a revenge measure, the bully boys did not like Hamas winning a democratic elections when the west spent so much money on Fatah’s election effort.

    I don’t think much of the lame recall threat, the returning of our ambassador farce/stick, who is Hague trying to kid? how would that help Palestinians who see no returns for their economic efforts?

  71. this on the subject of bullying in the grauniad

    and this from Al jazeera

    and here are some views on the economic impact of the 1994 Paris agreement

  72. Hague the Zionist supporter probably has no intention of recalling Gould. Instead he has called Taub in for a cosy chat on the price of fish.


    I have been watching a recording of a committee hearing when Lord Patten and acting DG Tim Davie were giving evidence on the Savile case. Patten had a particularly bad time from a Con MP called Philip Davies to the extent where the viewer could feel some sympathy for Patten although he withstood it by staying calm and using sarcasm.

    I looked Davies up. A career with a bookies and Asda led him to the green benches. He is a Conservative Friend of Israel btw.


    Overseas visits
    26-31 May 2007, to Israel, hosted by Conservative Friends of Israel (CFI). CFI contributed to the cost of flights, accommodation and some meals. The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Official Guests Department) contributed to the costs of travel inside Israel, some accommodation and three meals. (Registered 7 June 2007)

  73. O/T Mr Craig Murray, Sir, I have sent you an important open letter privately on Facebook addressed to the new Nobel laureates and composed by a Swedish supporter of Julian Assange. It would be good if this letter was endorsed by influential figures like yourself. I’ve likewise sent it to Patrick Haseldine in the UK and Andrew Kreig in Washington. Suggestions and the endorsement by others you may know would be welcome.

  74. I agree with your conclusions and the reasoning behind them.

    There are a couple of extra considerations.

    (i) How will the BBC be regulated when it already has so many channels and is so strong on the internet? The BBC has a very complicated relationship with central government which controls its funding and treats it (post Hutton) as a communication arm of government policy?

    (ii) How can we regulate communications through global organisations like Google, Facebook and Twitter all of which are heavily involved in how information reaches us in our daily lives?

  75. It couldn’t be any clearer. All who hold to the values of freedom and democracy will be persecuted.

    These are very dark times, but it barely registers on mainstream media. Immense complacency is instead constructed.

    There’s no loud bang. There’s barely a whimper.

    This is how evil takes hold. Easily.


  76. What happened to the right of reply? When ‘holocaust denial’ messages get deleted one side of the argument always remains online for some odd reason.

    E.g. the Huffington Post article linked by Kempe @ 2 Dec, 2012 – 1:52 pm states the foundation are ‘likely’ gas chambers – which is not the same as them actually being gas chambers and a pit that ‘could’ hold the ashes of 400,000 does not mean that it does or that it did. My perfectly valid response, pointing out that this does not represent evidence, has been deleted.

    Anyone who frequented blairwatch.co.uk back in the day will recognise *exactly* who’s running this site.

  77. Uzbek in the UK

    3 Dec, 2012 - 12:53 pm

    Spot on Mr Murray. By changing direction of the argument towards media regulation (which of course will not be supported by many) the argument of media ownership has evaporated. This is carefully though trough and even more carefully presented deception. Whole reason of the inquiry was sort of show trial. Brooks was made a scapegoat (quite deservingly) but at the same time many others involved kept their regalities. Along with the MPs expenses scandal Levson’s show case demonstrates that 1. Establishment is corrupt 2. There is nothing that WILL be done to seriously address this problem but show trials and few scapegoats.

  78. Why is government so concerned over mainstream media, other than they see them as core to their needs.

    It’s ridiculous to talk of the reform of mainstream media. They are what they are, a malign obstruction to normal human communication.

    They can’t be reformed. They are the problem.

    As with the Reformation over another malign institution that sought to tell us how to think, the Catholic Church, we need only our bloggers, our pamphleteers to free us from this disgusting tyranny.

    Abolition of middlemen everywhere is the only solution.

  79. “Regulation of the media” – this term is so vague that it is meaningless. However, it’s propaganda value is high, because “media regulation” is so widely thought of as repressive and a “bad thing”.

    The large, corporate “news” media are clearly heavily influenced (ie. regulated) in certain specific directions already.

    The question of media ownership can be considered in the wider context of corporate ownership in general. I propose a “market share” tax. Corporations should be charged tax in proportion to their market share in a given sector. Any corporation that achieves 100% market share in a sector would be charged 100% tax on their profit in that sector.

    I’m no economist and I recognise the crudity of my proposal. I offer it for discussion and improvement.

  80. O/T A very tragic incident here in Norfolk. Leader of North Norfolk district council shoots his wife with shotgun and then himself.
    was he depressed or was he angry?
    If he was depressed, why shoot the wife?


  81. Nevermind,

    Neighbour only heard one gunshot strangely


    David Stow, who lives nearby, said he heard a single gunshot on Sunday.

    “We’re in the country so we hear a lot of gunshots and at first I didn’t think anything of it,” he said.

    “But then I saw the police arrive and realised it must be something serious. I knew them to speak to and they always seemed a very nice couple.”

  82. Agent Cameron, as gate-keeper of the well established ‘Research Institute for the Study of Conflict and Terrorism (RISCT), based at 136 Baker Street, London’ that uses journalists as field operatives, has walked away from the Leveson Inquiry debate on which there exists no vote.

    Agent Cameron I believe has been advised by his masters to fence the debate around a compulsory ethical regulation of the press that dilutes to a voluntary watchdog while retaining the established Blairite CIA liased Anglo-American influence from British Intelligence services and think-tanks like the Ditchley Foundation and Chatham House. Such influence, for instance, assures MSM allegiance to NATO, the British nuclear deterrent and of course the ‘war of terror.

  83. Rebekah Brooks’ replacement at News Intl chucks the job in.


  84. Debate on Leveson report in HoC about to start on Ch 81.

  85. IDF threaten to shoot Harry Fear inside Gaza then actually fire shots after he identifies himself as a journalist and British Citizen – on film at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfLQopBb5Q0

  86. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Dec, 2012 - 3:47 pm

    An hilarious outng of Petraeus. When he kicks everyone out of the room, save three, Zuckerberg is one of them. Heh.


  87. Mark
    And if he didn’t do his masters’ bidding might very well find himself as a 2-dimensional toff character sliding off a roof in the Archers. Is this the meaning of Realpolitick? : I lie, therefore I am.

  88. The BBC broke into the Leveson debate with the news of the royal pregnancy. That will fill the papers for the next eight months at least. Yawn.

    Sopel and Maitlis were caught out and were proved to be rather dim and uneducated. Neither could work out the meaning of the medical condition hyperemesis gravidarum provided in the press statement.

    Any secondary school kid –
    Hyper excessive
    emesis vomiting
    gravida in a pregnant condition

  89. So she’s vomiting in the early stages of pregnancy. We all did. And we just got on with it. *sigh*

  90. @ Anon. I’m waiting until the relatives had their three days of mourning and then ask some questions, i.e. how come she was shot with one shot in the front garden and he then went back into the back garden to fall over? or were there two shots and the bloke who only heard one shot is deaf…
    we shall see.

  91. I read with amusement Dick The Prick’s post about fancying Rebekkah Brookes, and I must admit I read it with a certain sympathy and undersatnding because…..OK, I confess!…I admit to getting the hots for Major Avital Leibovitch and Tzipora Livn whenever I see them on the box.. Am I crazy, or am I just over-sexed? (PS – no,I’m I’m not Israeli, nor Jewish, nor a shill for afore-mentioned).

  92. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Dec, 2012 - 8:34 pm

    49 years hence and we still have no definitive answer. Anyone who questions the Warren Report gets consigned to UFO fringes.

    I just know there had to be at least 2 shooters; there are no magic bullets, and when shot through the head from the rear, the head goes forward, not back.

    Plus; where was Curtis LeMay , that bastard of Incendiary bombing and fascist ideology.


  93. So we have a jolly nice Canadian looking after the Bank of England for us. Why? Apparently because those awfully nice Canadians didn’t have the banking problems that just sort of crept up on large US and UK banks. So he’s the man to sort us out.

    Except –

    During the peak of the crisis 5 Canadian banks received $144 billion (Canadian) dollars ‘liquidity support’ (not a bailout you notice). The top three banks received support in excess of 100% of their value i.e. 3 major Canadian banks were totally underwater at the time. To put that into context, that $114 billion is 7% of total GDP, $3,4000 for ever Canadian man, woman and child.

    Funny how the Canadian government has tried to keep this sort of thing quiet. So what’s that all aboot, eh!

    More importantly, what did Osbourne not know and when did he not know it?


  94. Ooops – typo ‘$144 billion’ should be ‘$114 billion’. But, hey, what’s a few billion amongst friends.

  95. @ Mary, re Margaret Hodge nee Oppenheimer : wasn’t the good lady also involved in soemthing rather peculiar quite a few years ago when she was (?) Chair of some London borough council (? Hackney)? Something to do with the social services, perhaps presiding over a useless childrens care service or something similar?

    Nice to see her as a fearless champion of the common man, now….

  96. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Dec, 2012 - 9:33 pm

    finally, on topic, sort of; http://www.vice.com/read/how-to-shut-down-internets-warren-ellis

    ” In the above two cases, we’re dealing with what, in science-fiction novels, might be some strange future iteration of the military-industrial complex, where regime and commerce are bound by blood and the cycle has come all the way back around to medieval ruling Houses in the satellite-powered Weird Present.”

  97. conjunction

    3 Dec, 2012 - 9:34 pm

    I have been watching the debate in the Commons on Leveson for four or five hours. People are arguing across party lines and most support Leveson’s call for legislation. A number of Tories make compelling arguments for the freedom of the press and point out that it is a cornerstone of the US constitution, and I feel they are also calling up historical images of the rollicking imperialism of past centuries in this country, and the general freedom of the British aristocracy to beat up anyone they like.

    Proponents of Leveson cite the Irish system which is apparently like the one Leveson proposes, which offers redress for private individuals without going through the courts. Saves expense all round. One of the main points in our current system is that people can’t afford to fight libel cases in court, and also that some hurtful procedures by the press aren’t illegal.

    Therefore I reluctantly support the call for legislation. Yes Craig, you are right in saying that if no proprietor could own more than one daily the spirit of competition might force better practice. But that would not be enough. What is happening in this country in the press is appalling, and I would rather be wimpy and protect the public, and to hell with the freedom of the press.

  98. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Dec, 2012 - 9:42 pm

    Been watching ‘Bulworth’. Haven’t seen in years, but this bit of dialogue between Beatty and Berry is worth revisiting.

    You know a lotta people I talk to, the blacks your age, they have no idea who he was.
    (long pause)
    (long pause)
    Why do you think there are no more black leaders?

    Nina: (after a pause)
    Some people think it’s because they all got killed. But I think it’s got more to do with the decimation of the manufacturing base in the urban centers. Senator, an optimistic population throws up optimistic, energized leaders. And when you shift manufacturing to the Sun Belt in the Third World, you destroy the blue-collar core of the black activist population.

    Some people would say that problem is purely cultural. The power of the media that is continually controlled by fewer and fewer people, add to that the monopoly of the media, a consumer culture based on self-gratification, and you’re not likely to have a population that want’s leadership that calls for self-sacrifice.

    But the fact is, I’m just a materialist at heart. But if I look at the economic base, higher domestic employment means jobs for African Americans. World War II meant lots of jobs for black folks. That is what energized the community for the civil rights movement of the 50’s and the 60’s. An energized, hopeful community will not only produce leaders but more importantly it’ll produce leaders they’ll respond to.

    Now what do you think, Senator?

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Speaking of Movies, If you haven’t seen Lincoln, Daniel Day Lewis give his best performance since ‘My Left Foot’…Go see it, even if you only see one movie per year.

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