The Acanchi Effect

by craig on May 16, 2014 11:21 am in Uncategorized

The financial position of ailing marketing firm Acanchi underwent a startling transformation in 2012 just as they started work on creating the fake grassroots movement “Vote No Borders”.

In 2011 Acanchi’s auditors noted “The Company made a loss in the current year of £197,003, and at the balance sheet date its liabilities exceeded its assets by £385,162″. The company had a turnover of £25,631 against cost of sales of £21,283 and “admin expenses” of £201,125.

In 2012 Acanchi started work in Cambridge and London on developing the “VNB” PR campaign against Scottish Independence, which is surprising given that BBC propaganda portrayed VNB as a spontaneous movement of local Scots. We know they started in 2012 because one of Acanchi’s staff, Jessica Quiney, posted it on her CV on Linked-in. The CV page was deleted yesterday but not before Wings Over Scotland grabbed a screenshot.

This work for the No campaign coincided with an amazing turnaround in Acanchi’s financial fortunes. In 2011 they made a loss of £197,003. In 2012 they made a profit of £103,292. The income from sales went from £25,631 in 2011 to £348,835 in 2012.

There is a very interesting explanation given in the Directors’ report to the Acanchi annual accounts for 2012. It is signed by Gary Waple, the man who registered the “Vote No Borders” domain and who now works for the Regulatory Commission of the Bank of England. Mr Waple states in the 2012 Acanchi Directors’ report:

The nature of Acanchi’s business is that the award of government contracts is subject to external delays beyond the Company’s control. As stated in last year’s financial statement, the Directors’ forecast that there would be a significant improvement in these financial statements. This was achieved as the result of the company being awarded contracts in the current period which had been the subject of long on-going discussions in the past.”

So what was young Jessica Quiney doing at Acanchi at this period? Well, in 2012 she:

“collated and formatted material promoting the pro-Union arguments in opposition to the SNP’s call for Scottish independence including development of narratives, a positioning strategy and a programme of micro-initiatives for this project.”

In 2013 Jessica was:

“Involved in the development and implementation of a proposal and subsequent micro-initiatives for a campaign supporting the No vote in the Scottish Independence Referendum in 2014″.

Vote No Borders had nine adverts in one single edition of the Daily Record newspaper in Scotland this week, each giving the story of a single “grassroots” Scots punter and why they are against independence. These “narratives” were developed by Jessica Quiney, a Cambridge classics student, born in England and educated at Northampton High School. I can see no evidence she has ever been to Scotland. Interestingly the photographer, Claire Borley, who took all the photos of “typical Scots” for the No Borders campaign which are appearing in the newspapers, is also Cambridge based.

Claire Borley’s cv gives a stunning glimpse into just how real and gritty this “Scottish grassroots campaign” is:

Born and raised in Cambridge, my professional life has always been about communication.

After gaining an English degree and jumping in at the deep-end in Bermuda as a PA with limited shorthand but fast typing, I worked in television production in London. Here I built up a wide variety of skills working for the Walt Disney Company, Buena Vista International, Buena Vista Productions, Roger Bolton Productions, Wall to Wall TV and Windfall Films.

After spending a number of years on the production side of a visual industry I felt it was time to develop my own creative abilities. With this in mind I returned to Cambridge and continued to work successfully as a freelance photographer for advertising, editorial and corporate clients as well as private clients, musicians and performers.

My aim is always to capture the personality and essence of the individual moment and make each project unique for the client. This leads to much of my work being used for PR, marketing and multi-media broadcast. I enjoy working below the line (direct mail, flyers etc), above the line (mass media advertising) or through the line (bit of both).

Young Jessica Quiney has done nothing wrong. Despite the fact that Fiona Gilmore, 100% owner of Acanchi, was now by 2012 raking in 100 grand a year in profit, poor Jessica was not even being properly paid – she was an intern, an example of the appalling exploitation of our young generation and the total lack of respect in modern society for the value of labour against capital.

But what cannot be forgiven is the BBC’s extraordinary promotion of VNB as a genuine grassroots organization – in total just under 150 minutes were devoted to showing Gavin Esler’s puff piece on the BBC News Channel, not to mention at least 20 minutes on other BBC news programmes.

It has recently come to light that the UK government has been rocked by private polling costing £56,000 of taxpayers’ money, which shows a major fall in “No” support. It is incredible that the government even thinks it is legitimate to pay with taxes for private polling to be made available to only one side in the referendum campaign. It does make you wonder, what else do they think it is OK to pay for? My strong expectation is that the poll of which news has been leaked is only the latest in a series; polling statistics are the basis of PR strategies such as the one Acanchi has been developing for the No campaign.

I cannot leave the subject of Acanchi without referring to this report that:

According to the Israeli daily Haaretz, in October 2008, it was the turn of British firm Acanchi, hired by the foreign minister “to craft the new image” (“Foreign Ministry, PR firm rebrand Israel as land of achievements,” 6 October 2008). The firm’s founder toured Israel as part of the mission “to create a brand disconnected from the Arab-Israeli conflict that focuses instead on Israel’s scientific and cultural achievements.”

I have deep contempt for Fiona Gilmore. To try to create a “brand image” for Israel that leaves out the Palestinians, is the moral equivalent of creating a “brand image” for the Nazis that leaves out the concentration camps. Anyone who can tour Israel as the guest of the Israeli foreign office to that end, is not somebody I would wish to associate with. She is however the ideal partner for Malcolm Offord, the Vote No Borders financier – and major contributor to the Tory Party and to Michael Gove personally – who argues that Britain needs much more drastic cuts to welfare benefits. There must be something about food banks that gladdens the Tory heart. The prospect of not having any in Scotland evidently terrifies them.

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207 Comments

  1. Great work Craig!

  2. It’s a shame that this person, with her 3 A Levels and Classics degree, had to go on and work as an office junior after graduation. If Acanchi got this person to write the tripe about being “staunchly Scottish”, shame on them for making a fool of the intern and the people used in the photos. If I were a prospective client of Acanchi, I’d be worried that my campaign was being carried out by office juniors which seems to be the case with the Nob Orders. The Government should be demanding our money back from Acanchi on behalf of the taxpayers – we’ve been cheated!

  3. Donald MacDonald

    16 May, 2014 - 12:07 pm

    There’s a scandal in here, waiting for the light to hit it.

  4. patronsaintofcats

    16 May, 2014 - 12:09 pm

    Devastating deconstruction as usual Craig. Glad you’re on our side :-)

  5. Mary For Truth and Justice

    16 May, 2014 - 12:10 pm

    Good work and great research Craig!

  6. Fantastic summary of the astroturfing Craig.

    What’s the best way to get this info to everyone, and can the BBC be pressured into issuing a retraction of their puff piece by Essler and others ?

  7. Mary For Truth and Justice

    16 May, 2014 - 12:22 pm

    Gary Waple Bank of England.

    Rosalind Gilmore
    http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/pra/Pages/about/gilmore.aspx

    Very ‘establishment’ http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=2091042&ticker=ZURN:VX

    Still wonder whether she and Fiona are related (mother and daughter?) or is Fiona married to a Gilmore??

    Has this been posted before?

    Weekly Wanker #029: Fiona Gilmore
    May 3, 2014
    http://athousandflowers.net/2014/05/03/weekly-wanker-029-fiona-gilmore/

    Also http://athousandflowers.net/2014/05/02/weekly-wanker-028-malcolm-offord/

  8. Mary,

    Hadn’t seen those last two before – brilliant!!

    Craig

  9. The disappearing cv page was a bit like the disappearing notification that there was a US grand jury indictment against Wikileaks and Julian Assange which was quickly removed, as posted yesterday by Arbed.

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/467042011431071744

    These people have no shame and are forever having to cover up because of devious dealings.

    But with the UK government the thing that gets me most is how it is paying (who’s paying) for a Vote No Borders campaign for Scotland when its own border controls are so discriminatory. What good words can anybody find for these clients?

  10. Ba'al Zevul (Demoniser)

    16 May, 2014 - 1:19 pm

    BINGO!

    Some professional digging there, Craig. Hats off.

  11. John,

    Though I should love to believe it, I couldn’t see a screenshot anywhere of the “momentarily posted” material. It’s not really a story if there’s no evidence.

  12. Ba'al Zevul (Demoniser)

    16 May, 2014 - 1:46 pm

    Aside – the offspring of Acanchi’s 2008/9 work:

    http://forward.com/articles/2070/israel-aims-to-improve-its-public-image/

    Message: Israel’s really creative. And there are NO long nosed pachyderms in ANY rooms.

  13. Seems these No Borders and Better Together campaigns are little more than piss poor efforts at the old Colour Revolution trick.

    Victoria Nuland and the gang would have run a much more sophisticated campaign of course, and they had to buy their media in advance.

    Great discussion here of BBC bias on the issue, using Prof Robertson’s work on the matter, with vids of squirming, bullshitting BBC execs:

    http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2014/759-scotlandshire-bbc-scotland-coverage-of-the-independence-referendum.html

    “We asked Prof. Robertson whether he had any final remarks about what the whole episode had revealed about his primary research interest: namely, thought control in democracies:

    ‘As a long-term adopter of the Propaganda Model’s usefulness in other contexts, I’ve been naive about its usefulness in Scotland; no longer. It now looks a classic case of thought control enabled by self-censorship within elites and amongst those less powerful that they manage.’ “

  14. Mary For Truth and Justice

    16 May, 2014 - 2:08 pm

    An aside. I like the Thousand Flowers website. Nicely savage which suits my current mood.

    Excuse the language but this made me laugh. I stood outside my house yesterday waiting for a friend to pick me up. Nearly every car going towards the town was one of these very large 4 wheel drive Chelsea tractors with a solitary woman at the wheel, some just able to see over it. One or two were even using mobiles illegally.

    http://athousandflowersblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/ukimok1.png

    Thought we could send one to Malcolm Offord but perhaps he is not so flush since departing from Charterhouse Capital.

    http://www.efinancialnews.com/story/2014-02-04/charterhouse-geoffrey-arbuthnott-court-case-london?ea9c8a2de0ee111045601ab04d673622

    Charterhouse with Permira and CVC (Acromas) are involved in the share flotation for Saga. Given a bit of a thumbs down in the Torygraph.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/questor/10828284/Five-reasons-not-to-buy-Saga-shares.html

  15. Watched the video re Julian Assange. I was appalled by the conduct of the woman participant.She appeared to be a plant .’to run interference’ on you ,Craig. You were interrupted and talked over when you tried to get your point across.
    Those who are aware of the false messages by the TPTB regarding , Libya, Syria, and recently Ukraine, know only too well that any truthteller/whistleblower is demonised ,villified and discredited to obfuscate the truth.
    These are all well known propaganda tools as developed by one Edward Louis Bernays and in the arsenal of the Establishment security services.
    Truly the BBC is suborned by the Dark forces of the security state.
    I am surprised you were invited on the programme. They would have known you would not toe the Establishment line.

  16. Photos of a couple of unbranded “Home Rule For England” posters up in Westminster today:

    https://cdn.mediacru.sh/hpWniI6-eluH.jpg
    https://cdn.mediacru.sh/kwdQ0-LfdxH0.jpg

  17. Ba'al Zevul (demoniser)

    16 May, 2014 - 3:33 pm

    What’s country branding, then? Let a country brander explain, with meaningless charts based on empirical assumptions and in an impentrable dialect of bollocks. But there is some meaning here, too.

    http://bavconsulting.com/brand-israel-its-evolving-impacts-on-the-countrys-political-credibility/

    We suspect that Israel’s increased respect among Americans has evolved in parallel with the shift of Israel’s own focus from the Palestinians – who do not threaten Americans in any significant way – to the Iranians, whose nuclear course threatens Israel most directly, but also poses a major threat to Iran’s long-proclaimed enemy, the U.S. (This shift from the Palestinians to Iran in US-Israel discussions has been reported in a number of places, including Fox News and NBC News.) In other words, Americans pay much more attention when Israel gives its views about the Iranians than about the Palestinians.

    Out with morality, justice and principle! In with Branding ™ ! Just add Branding ™ to your apartheid state and stand by to collect an annual mountain of cash! Just don’t mention the P(censored).

  18. Ba'al Zevul (demoniser)

    16 May, 2014 - 3:39 pm

    Minitrue issues new promise to proles -

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2629878/Vote-No-Scotland-power-PMs-pledge-heads-north-campaign-trail.html

    And, in a shift from negative warnings to Scots about the perils of breaking away from the UK, Mr Cameron vowed that a No vote in the September 18 referendum will ensure more powers for the Holyrood parliament…

    Than…? LOL.

  19. One assumes that the E.U. are a little bit more professional about it.

  20. Craig

    Me neither concerning a screendump only one of an explanation that something had been wrongly posted. And if we asked, or somebody in the US asked, under a freedom of information request it’s unlikely they would make it public. So as you say. No evidence. Pity.

  21. Mary For Truth and Justice

    16 May, 2014 - 4:34 pm

    Those posters that Phil linked probably belong to the English Democrats Party. I saw their party political broadcast the other night. Horrible racist stuff.

    http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/

  22. Mary For Truth and Justice

    16 May, 2014 - 5:46 pm

    Narendra Modi will not be bringing peace and harmony to India judging from this, by setting Hindus against Muslims.

    India Deserves Better Than Modi: ‘The Economist’
    http://blog.outlookindia.com/default.aspx?ddm=10&pid=3223

    He and BLiar have used the same American image enhancers APCO.

    ‘Beating the War Drum
    Doing public relations for dictatorships is perhaps the more charitable part of Apco’s activities. Apco has a battalion of pro-war lobbyists under its wing. The firm is also a strong advocate of expanding armaments and the US military role in world affairs. In October 2004, Apco and Kissinger Associates (owned by Henry Kissinger) formed a strategic alliance. Beside Kissinger Associates, Apco also built a broad network or coalition of conservative pro-Zionist lobbyists and consultancy groups including Heritage Foundation, Frontier of Freedom, Jewish Policy Center, etc. In the name of war against terror, Apco helped to coordinate government communications to convince the public of the necessity of war. Its job also included manufacturing public opinion and feedback in supporting the war efforts. Basically it exploited Islam-phobia in Western society to sell aggression as the solution to regain security in the West.

    In addition to supporting George Bush, Apco also defended British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s unpopular move to enter the Iraq war. Apco had assisted Tony Blair to consolidate the war alliance. Together with the London-based Foreign Policy Institute, Apco prepared and published the pamphlet, ‘A Global Alliance for Global Values’ in which Blair declared:
    “We must commit ourselves to a complete renaissance of our strategy to defeat those that threaten us.”

    After the invasion of Iraq, Apco swiftly positioned itself to help American companies plunder Iraqi wealth and resources. In May 2003, Apco Worldwide launched a task force headed by Marc Ginsberg, the former US ambassador to Morocco, to help U.S. clients secure contracts for Iraq’s rebuilding.

    Apco is described as a lobby firm that “specialises in helping corporations advance their goals by manipulating legislators, and drafting and advancing model legislation and regulations. Key tools include the creation of business coalitions and fake, corporate-funded ‘grassroots’ groups tailored to specific issues.”

    Recently there was a report published on the importance of finding a legal basis for an attack on Iran. Interestingly the authors, Jeffrey H. Smith and John B. Bellinger III, lawyers at Arnold & Porter, supplied such a basis.’

    ~~~
    ‘MODI Makeover

    Adolf Hitler was a brilliant propagandist. Narendra Modi too believes in the power of image. This is probably why the chief minister hired a US lobbying firm which has serviced clients like former Nigerian dictator Sani Abacha and President-for-life of Kazakhstan Nursultan Abishuly Nazarbayev.

    This Washington-based firm, Apco Worldwide, was hired by Modi sometime in August 2007, in the run-up to an important Assembly election, to improve his image before the world community. Among its recent clients are Mikhail Khodorkovsky, a former Communist youth leader-turned-Russian billionaire with mafia links.

    The firm has a distinction of taking contracts of boosting images of leaders who fell out of favour of their followers.On the face of it Apco Worldwide’s brief is to build and sell Brand Gujarat to the international community. APCO, through its 32 offices across the globe, has been promoting Gujarat as a great investment destination. APCO has also been managing Modi’s own behaviour and projection, for which the cost has been over $25,000 per month since 2007.

    “Although TIME’s cover story is not an endorsement, it contains inaccuracies, half-truths and glaring omission of pertinent details on Mr. Modi’s tenure as Chief Minister. These betray its real objective – an attempt by APCO Worldwide, Modi’s PR firm in Washington DC – to combat negative coverage of their client’s documented connivance in gross human rights violations, in order to project him as a Prime Ministerial candidate,” said Mr. Shaheen Khateeb, President of IAMC.

    “Mr. Narendra Modi as the potential Prime Minister of India is a diplomatic and moral conundrum for the United States and other countries of common human values,” added Mr. Khateeb.’

    ~~~~

    Mechanics of Narendra Modi’s PR agency : APCO Worldwide – Orchestrating our Future
    http://greatgameindia.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/mechanics-of-narendra-modis-pr-agency.html

  23. Having long given up on this representative elections codswollop I had not even heard of the English Democrats. They think the BNP too inclusive. How do they get on TV? Anyway, here’s a quick fun quiz for voting enthusiasts.

    Quiz Question

    Which party had the following policies in 1997?

    -No nuclear weapons
    -Free prescriptions
    -Retirement at 55
    -Vote at 16
    -A minimum wage fixed at 100% of MPs’ salaries
    -20 hour working week
    -Release innocent prisoners

    Quiz Answer
    Found here.

    Quiz Lesson
    Loonies, better than Labour.

  24. The sad thing is, most ‘ordinary’ Scots folk will not realise how their thinking is being manipulated by the media. I really fear for a Scotland that votes No. Anger can turn very nasty.

  25. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 May, 2014 - 7:53 pm

    “Narendra Modi will not be bringing peace and harmony to India judging from this, by setting Hindus against Muslims.”
    __________________

    Yes, and just fancy – it’s one of the much-admired (on this blog, at least)BRICs!!

    If Mary’s prediction is correct, then India looks set to join two of the other three BRICs (Russia and China) as havens of tolerance and justice.

    I’m glad I live in the Evil West and not the Wonderful BRICs :)

  26. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 May, 2014 - 8:02 pm

    “The sad thing is, most ‘ordinary’ Scots folk will not realise how their thinking is being manipulated by the media. I really fear for a Scotland that votes No. Anger can turn very nasty.”
    __________________

    And there we have – not for the first time on the blog – the get-out clause.

    IF the Scots vote Yes, then it will be because a proud people has acted rationally by choosing to take itds future into its own hands.

    IF, on the other hand, the Scots vote No, then it will have been because their “thinking was manipulated by the media” (a somewhat patronising verdict by Juteman et al, but never mind).

    But a get-out clause with an original and revealing little twist – the hint of violence(“Anger can turn very nasty”). Very democratic, indeed.

  27. I recall a Nat Scot on here some time ago posting a message to Craig saying something along the lines of “We love what you do, Craig, but stop fucking pretending to be Scottish”.

    Regarding all the Bannockburn bollocks and the apparent obsession with having to be Scottish and living in Scotland to be allowed an opinion on independence (Craig was born and lives in Norfolk), I don’t think it’s ever been put better.

  28. Mary For Truth and Justice

    16 May, 2014 - 9:21 pm

    The Westminster establishment are doing all they can to put spokes into the wheel.

    ‘The proposed date of Scottish independence should be delayed if it is not in the best interests of the rest of the UK, a House of Lords report has said.

    The recommendation was made by peers on the constitution committee.

    They also said MPs for Scottish seats should not be allowed to negotiate for the rest of the UK on the terms of independence.

    The SNP said the House of Lords was an “undemocratic anachronism”.

    The Scottish government has proposed 24 March 2016 as a realistic date for Scotland’s independence day, which would allow about 18 months for negotiations to be concluded if there is a “Yes” vote in the referendum on 18 September.

    “The prime minister should feel under no obligation to conclude negotiations by March 2016”
    Baroness Jay of Paddington

    Under that timetable, elections scheduled for 5 May 2016 would be the first to an independent Scottish parliament.

    But Labour peer Baroness Jay of Paddington, who chairs the constitution committee, urged the UK government to “put the rest of the UK’s interest first” in the event of independence negotiations.’

    /..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27424993

    The Constitution Committee
    Lord Goodlad (Chairman)
    Lord Hart of Chilton
    Lord Irvine of Lairg
    Baroness Jay of Paddington
    Lord Lyell of Markyate
    Lord Norton of Louth
    Lord Pannick
    Baroness Quin
    Lord Rodgers of Quarry Bank
    Lord Shaw of Northstead
    Lord Wallace of Tankerness
    Lord Woolf

    Register of Interests alphabetically
    http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/standards-and-interests/register-of-lords-interests/

  29. This whole episode and it’s main players are like a sub plot from tinker, taylor, soldier, spy. The mysterious financing, the time line, the BBCs involvement and of course the main “operators” Offord, Gilmore, Wapole and Esler, if they don’t work for the SIS in one of its many guises then I assume they all have a zero hours contract with it.

    The whole VNB operation stinks to the high heaven, and the establishments finger prints are all over it. This rUK is putrid and I don’t want anything to do with it.

  30. “The sad thing is, most ‘ordinary’ Scots folk will not realise how their thinking is being manipulated by the media. I really fear for a Scotland that votes No. Anger can turn very nasty.”

    Yes, because Juteman knows things so much better than “most ‘ordinary’ Scots”, and if only they could see the truth as he does then they could avoid the anger and nastiness that will follow their decision.

  31. I think they’ve lost the race to claim the name and be known as residual-UK, with most of central, southern and eastern-Ukraine surely having a better case to be be known as residual-UK and the west’s tiny western fascist part being annexed whoever wants it, and I hope remaining forever nameless. I had long thought the residual-UK should really exclude that nauseatingly smug enclave of loot and unfathomable wickedness, that south-east corner that sucks vampire-like the lifeblood and wealth fom the whole country, that London, leaving them to themselves, a pariah city state, had even suggested the name Autonomous Region South East would suit it perfectly. I’ll give country branding and presentation advice for them too, for a national anthem I suggest Mendelsson’s Funeral March and for a flag the skull and crossbones, over an image of DU mutated and mutilated babies.

  32. Great work indeed Craig… Brilliant post..thanks. calls for some dirty dealing investigation surely.

    Mary love the Thousand Flowers website What a hoot…

    came across that Offord and Gimore weekly wanker Piece a couple of weeks ago…whilst delving into Offord…

    Love the way they tell it…Cheers for reminding me.

  33. Superb post Craig.

    As someone earlier said:there is indeed a huge scandal here just waiting to be exposed.

    Habbabkuk?…Can you just bugger off you eejit sockpuppet hmmm?

    Thanks.

  34. Mary For Truth and Justice

    17 May, 2014 - 8:00 am

    I see that fascism has spread across the Irish Sea.

    ‘He doesn’t know where the hell I was born’: Woman in Kenny protest video speaks out

    When Dette McLoughlin questioned the Taoiseach about water charges, he asked her where she was from. McLoughlin claims a garda approached her after the incident, looking for her details.
    http://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-galway-accent-2-1465992-May2014/

    Free speech? Where did that go?

  35. Trust things do not go this far.

    Stirling Castle knight revealed as English nobleman
    Reconstructed image of knight’s face
    The skeleton of the knight was discovered during refurbishment work

    A skeleton discovered at Stirling Castle may have been an English knight who died in the 14th Century.

    Sir John de Stricheley died in 1341, when the English held the castle.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10138060

    and

    Stirling Castle skeletons date from independence wars
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-27443889

    ‘Nine skeletons were found at Stirling Castle by a team of archaeologists in 1997.

    Skeletons uncovered at Stirling Castle reveal the individuals were likely to have died during sieges of the castle during the Scottish wars of independence, experts believe.

    Nine skeletons were found at the castle in 1997, inspiring a number of studies and theories about their origins.

    Dr Jo Buckberry, a Bradford University battle trauma expert, believes they date from 1296 to 1357.

    A talk is to be held at the castle to discuss her findings.’

  36. Impressive research. I hope you can now get the information out to the Scottish voters. That is the expensive step. Also, if that information did get out, would it influence the vote count? I have been involved in a number of campaigns here in California where we dug up similar false grass roots campaigns (called ‘astro turf’ campaigns) and the information didn’t make much difference. The costs of getting the information to the voters was just too expensive. Our campaign managers said it was hard enough to just put out their own message without having to explain to the voters the sources of where all of the negative hits were coming from. I would think that your yes on Scottish independence would face the same dilemma.

  37. I see that the Murdoch discard/currently BBC stooge Andrew Neil was enrolled for the No campaign. Sept 2013
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oFiR0vUYIU

    Also Stephanie Flanders on the same date.

    She was then the BBC’s Economics Editor but is now ‘J.P. Morgan Asset Management’s chief market strategist for the UK and Europe’ LOL YCNMIU. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqGGriEJac8

    Captioned as ‘Highlights from a BBC conference on 3 April 2012.’ or ‘The State Broadcaster speaks for the State’.

  38. Chris Darroch

    17 May, 2014 - 10:06 am

    Well done on this piece. Good work. Thank you for your efforts

  39. Cameron goes to Scotland but is too afraid to meet ordinary Scots so he visits an army barracks instead.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2014-05-15/why-the-scottish-referendum-is-problematic-for-cameron/

    Cameron appears to be worried more about his image than the views of the Scottish electorate, not wanting to go down in history as the Prime Minister who broke up the Union. Bloody Tories!

  40. “I’m glad I live in the Evil West and not the Wonderful BRICs”

    Yes, but have you no consideration for the rest of our feelings my dear? :)

  41. Better Together has published its Donor List (don’t know when). Unfortunately the all-important link to donors comes up with an error, at least on my computer. I wonder if Buckingham’s name is among the big donors?

    http://www.bettertogether.net/press/entry/better-together-publishes-donor-details

  42. General Assembly of Church of Scotland begins

    Later in the week there will be further discussion over the ordination of gay ministers, and what is likely to be a high-profile debate on Scottish independence.

    The Church of Scotland has taken a neutral position on the issue, but its members said it was important to reflect on issues dominating public life.’
    /..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27443865

    Incidentally they have operations within the entity of Israel.

    The consolidated financial statements also incorporate the financial results of three subsidiary undertakings, St Andrew’s Galilee Limited,(hotel) St Andrew’s Scottish Centre Limited, (guest house) companies incorporated in Israel, and Tabeetha School in Israel registered as a non-profit organisation.
    p 41 http://www.churchofscotland.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/14419/unincorporated_report_and_accounts.pdf

    They have accounts with two Israel banks and employ Price Waterhouse in Jerusalem as auditors.

    Have we heard what the Church of Scotland thinks about the Occupation or are they Christian Zionists? I don’t know.

  43. The company and directors is here John. Darling included.

    http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC425421/BETTER-TOGETHER-2012-LIMITED/company-summary

  44. Yes, thanks Mary, interesting on its own, but it is the big donors that I am more interested in.

  45. Oh! the oversight. ‘VoteNoBorders’ was created with NationBuilder – another oxymoron – Reach for sickbag before you view!

    http://nationbuilder.com/

    Solid scrutiny Craig and well pursued Mary. :)

  46. Some of the donors are here.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/top-10-donors-to-better-together.20723893

    Two donors from this fund management company.

    http://www.artemis.co.uk/

  47. Yes John. I realised that you wanted the donors. Quite laughable that they make a big thing of publishing details of their donors and all you can get are the totals.

    Anyway. The best reason to vote Yes is this exhortation from war criminals’ assistant John Reid to vote No.

    14 May 2014

    A vote to stay in the UK is the patriotic Scottish choice
    Former Home Secretary, and former Secretary of State for Scotland and Defence, John Reid, highlights the reasons that voting to stay in the UK and have the best of both worlds is the patriotic Scottish choice.
    http://www.bettertogether.net/blog/entry/a-vote-to-stay-in-the-uk-is-the-patriotic-scottish-choice

  48. They are determined to keep the status quo John. No disturbance to their money making is needed.

    The ultimate owner of Artemis is this American outfit, together with the actual Artemis partners who are donors to Better Together.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affiliated_Managers_Group

    I saw the name of Flint chairman of HSBC in that list of ‘top’ donors. The other day I saw Lord Janvrin’s name as chair of HSBC Private Bank Ltd. He was private secretary to Her Maj of course. Keeping it all in the family.
    http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/lords/lord-janvrin/3838

  49. I’m sure you’re right Mary about the bankers. They have a lot to lose from a socially equatable society.

    For us in England it will be a good thing because we can say well they’re doing it in Scotland. All Westminster has done recently is cap local authorities and bank the money, or rather use the money for bonuses in banks the taxpayer bails out for bad practice. Birmingham City Council has stopped collecting green waste unless people pay extra. My local Tory candidate has said he’ll fight to reinstate this service. Yet it’s his central government that has capped councils and made the cuts in services necessary. He does not say what he intends to cut to make the savings to pay for reinstatement of green collections. Likewise Scotland, so far from Westminster, has lacked proper investment and has only been seen as a poor brother, until recently. We have to get the money back. If that means robbing the bankers so be it. They’ve robbed us for long enough.

  50. Thanks Mary again. Artemis, being an American outlet, is coming close to contravening the Better Together policy of not having donations from overseas investors. How would anybody know where this wheeler-dealering money comes from?

  51. Off topic but please sign and share this about a young Sudanese woman who is due to be hanged accused of apostasy for being a Christian. Some countries are so barbaric. Not the US this time.

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/278/113/666/?z00m=21103429&redirectID=1355134532

  52. I was passing Central Station in Glasgow last night and noticed a short ‘VNB’ video on that giant display screen where the Irn-Bru clock used to be. That doesn’t come cheap…

  53. Fantastic work. This is what the newspaper trade should be doing.
    Watch the mainstream media leap on this seminal story….not.

  54. John Goss

    “Off topic but please sign and share this about a young Sudanese woman who is due to be hanged accused of apostasy for being a Christian. Some countries are so barbaric. Not the US this time.”

    Sorry, John, but I can’t sign that. Muslims are the victims and the US the aggressor. Please get back on track.

  55. PROJECT TRUST – The knowledge.

    The Case for Voting ‘YES’ to an independent Scotland.

    The Union sound bite “Best of both worlds” is propaganda – there are no benefits from two seemingly opposed alternatives.

    The Union sound bite ‘We have devolution’ is misleading – ‘devolution’ = perversion. Further devolution is the dangling carrot gone rotten; five Billion pounds of ‘economic hitman’ debt and an unknown new rate of income tax for Scotland.

    The case for Union is weak, portraying the UK as ‘strong and proud’ is an enigma. Britain’s ‘strength’ has seeped to the East and our pride is in need of repair.

    Britain’s so called defense is warfare, weapons and murder.

    Our ‘generous’ welfare system has produced food-banks, poverty, pain and suicide.

    Our ‘oil and gas’ prize is depleted to the point we must destroy our land with explosive hydraulic fracturing to ‘wring out’ our soil and rocks for short term gain, polluting future generations.

    The EU rebate that purports £135/year to British households is contentious and will be cut.

    Britain’s economy has not recovered from the 2008 crash:

    Since 2007 the UK has committed to spending £1.162 trillion at various points on bailing out the banks. This figure has however fluctuated wildly during the period and by March 2011 it was £456.33bn. That total outstanding support was equivalent to 31% of GDP in March. At near zero interest the ‘pay-back’ on our investment is lost in the fog:

    “If the support measures had not been put in place, the scale of the economic and social costs if one or more major UK banks had collapsed would be so large as to be difficult to envision. The support provided to the banks was therefore justified, but the final cost to the taxpayer of the support would not be known for a number of years.” – National Audit Office – Dec 2013

    Leaving Scotland’s currency until last is my reply to the ‘fear campaign’ that England’s monetary policy vis. currency union will strike at the heart of every family in Scotland. It will not.

    The independent Fiscal Commission concluded: “retaining Sterling would be a sensible currency choice that would be attractive both to Scotland and the UK”.

    Scotland holds the best cards in any macroeconomic monetary agreement. Osborne, his rhetoric and scaremongering is just jingoistic threatening without substance.

    Case closed.

  56. Resident Dissident

    17 May, 2014 - 3:37 pm

    “Sorry, John, but I can’t sign that. Muslims are the victims and the US the aggressor.”

    And poor Meriam Yehya Ibrahim Ishag is just a dispensible pawn you want to play in your stupid game. Truly pathetic response – are you capable of thinking for yourself?

  57. Resident Dissident

    17 May, 2014 - 3:40 pm

    More shooting the messenger from Craig I’m afraid. I’m sure there are plenty of unsavoury characters who support the Yes campaign as well.

  58. doug scorgie

    17 May, 2014 - 4:37 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    16 May, 2014 – 7:53 pm

    “I’m glad I live in the Evil West and not the Wonderful BRICs”

    I’m sure the BRIC countries are glad of that as well Habbabkuk

  59. doug scorgie

    17 May, 2014 - 5:07 pm

    Mary For Truth and Justice
    16 May, 2014 – 9:21 pm

    “The Westminster establishment are doing all they can to put spokes into the wheel.”

    “The proposed date of Scottish independence should be delayed if it is not in the best interests of the rest of the UK, a House of Lords report has said.”

    Yes Mary, the “establishment” will do all they can to prevent a yes vote but if that fails they will do anything they can to prevent independence.

    They could use “national security” as a pretext:

    “Scottish independence threat to national security, says Theresa May”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10411559/Scottish-independence-threat-to-national-security-says-Theresa-May.html

    Philip Hammond Says Those Demanding Scottish Independence Are ‘Deluded’ And ‘Threatening National Security’

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/15/philip-hammond-scottish-independence_n_4970556.html

    The UK is a unitary state; Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland have a degree of autonomous devolved power. But such devolved power is delegated by the Parliament of the United Kingdom which may enact laws unilaterally altering or abolishing devolution.

    So in the interests of “national security” it might not be allowed.

  60. Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson, President of Iceland, explains why independence is so important:

    How Iceland defeated the Anglo-American Bankster Mafia

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zlzC_XMQzI

    DSK at the IMF allowed Iceland to bust its banks. He was also reported as agreeing that Ireland follow a similar plan. Unfortunately they didn’t.

    DSK was subsequently ousted in a very public fit up.

    Iceland escaped the bankers clutches. The rest of us must suffer austerity to make up their gambling losses.

  61. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    17 May, 2014 - 5:44 pm

    Doug Scorgie

    “Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    16 May, 2014 – 7:53 pm

    “I’m glad I live in the Evil West and not the Wonderful BRICs”

    I’m sure the BRIC countries are glad of that as well Habbabkuk”
    _______________________

    Are you glad you live in the West rather than in one of the BRICs, Doug?

  62. doug scorgie

    17 May, 2014 - 6:03 pm

    Off topic
    Re kidnapped girls in Nigeria:

    I read an article in the Guardian online edition about an hour ago that had a quote I think from Nigeria’s Goodluck Jonathan.

    I paraphrase: “It’s all-out war against Boko Harem”

    I thought this kind of talk would put the kidnapped girls in danger and it sounded like a military operation was being planned instead of negotiating the girl’s release.

    I just returned to the article and those words are gone and the whole piece seems to have been re-written.

    Can anyone find the original article?

  63. Channel 4 News opened with the line that there will be ‘total war’ on Boko Haram now seen as Alki Ada.

    http://www.channel4.com/news/nigeria-boko-haram-total-war-paris-summit-al-qaeda

  64. Peacekeeper 17 May, 2014 – 2:02 pm

    Can’t agree with you on this. I support Muslims when they are being persecuted. It is just as important for me to support Christians when they are being persecuted. Even if it was apostasy, which she denies anyway, what is wrong with somebody changing their religion? If somebody converted to Islam would that be a crime punishable by hanging? Anyway two wrongs do not make a right.

    I recall reading about Dr Samuel Johnson, who I think was a pompous twat, refusing to have anything to do with a young woman who had heard the Quaker preacher and abolitionist, Mary Knowles, preach. Her name was Jenny Harry, apparently very beautiful and the daughter of a mulatto woman and a very wealthy planter called Hibbert. Mary Knowles was a long-time acquaintance of Johnson going back to their Staffordshire days. Jenny’s father allegedly disinherited her and Johnson condemned her for apostasy and Criticised Mary Knowles for proselytising. Johnson condemned Jenny (Jane) Harry for apostasy but did not condemn her to death, though she did die young. Apostasy and proselytising are words that should be removed from all languages.

    So again I urge you to sign.

  65. I should have mentioned, though I guess it’s obvious, that Jenny Harry converted from one Christian sect, Anglican, to another, Quakerism. In this respect 18th century England was more enlightened than 21st century Sudan.

  66. Any execution for whatever reason is an outrage and an offence to mankind. Have signed John.

    Her crime. She married a Christian. She is pregnant too.

    No imminent execution for Christian in Sudan, despite death sentence
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/16/world/africa/sudan-christian-woman-whats-next/

  67. Thoughts on India?

  68. I think it’s pretty obvious that the BBC were not duped by this lot but were complicit in the attempted creation of the myth. Can pay won’t pay.

  69. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 May, 2014 - 10:19 pm

    Craig. Brilliant deconstruction!

    These “Turd Polishers” (thanks Mary) don’t see the irony of re-branding the separation wall builders then running a phoney grass-roots “No Borders” campaign.

    Some rare footage here of two ordinary every-day Scots haggis farmers, the Mac Anchi-Gilmore sisters at the border.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glUm-cHeekc

  70. Brilliant discussion of the genocide in Rwanda.

    Another day. Another neo colonial op.

    Same old. Same old.

    http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-886-keith-harmon-snow-reveals-the-truth-about-the-rwandan-genocide/

  71. Is this VNB not fraudulent and is there nothing we can do?

  72. Good point Doug
    17 May, 2014 – 5:07 pm

    Mrs May plainly took advice from Rory Stewart (Torturers ’R’ Us) MP chairman of Westminster’s Defense Select Committee after Craig demolished her racist threat to close the border.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/03/theresa-mays-threats/

  73. Graham Purnell

    18 May, 2014 - 2:23 am

    What’s happened to investigative journalism? If one of the TV newsrooms had been duped or colluded with unscrupulous campaigns like this in the past, it would have been big news and the other channels would have pounced on it, even if only to churlishly embarrass their competitors. Now… silence.

    Thank goodness for citizen journalists, bloggers and Facebook.

  74. O/T

    Isn’t it nice to hear that in a country where we are ‘all in together’ that the rich have got richer including Her Maj? Now how do they do that? Could we be told so that we could follow suit with our pittances.

    Rich double their wealth in five years
    James Gillespie
    Top 1,000 worth record £519bn
    18 May 2014
    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/article1412257.ece Paywall naturally!

    It was also nice to hear the charming Canadian at the BoE giving comfort to the developers/housebuilders/Tory donors in their quest to concrete over our Green Belt land.

  75. On topic from the same organ

    Keep it to yourself, but Scotland’s shy ‘no’ voters will win the day
    Dominic Lawson
    18 May 2014

    David Cameron and George Osborne are, not for the first time, performing their “good cop, bad cop” routine. This is hardly unusual, given their respective day jobs. Prime ministers prefer to cast a roseate glow over the public mood; chancellors are meant to be more severe. In this case, however, the performance is specifically directed at the Scottish people.

    Although it seems to have been going on for months, the independence referendum campaign proper is only now about to begin. So last week Good Cop Cameron travelled north of what is actually not a border to declare: “We want Scotland to stay. We are all enriched by being together. Scotland puts the great into Great Britain.”

    ~~~~

    Then the piece fades into something about Bad Cop Osborne and RBS banknotes in the event of a Yes vote. It’s enough to scare the sporran off one’s person.

    The rest is behind the same paywall.
    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/columns/dominiclawson/article1411850.ece

  76. “Thank goodness for citizen journalists, bloggers and Facebook.”

    Well said Graham Purnell. The root cause was 9/11 and the so-called “war on terror” which was generated by the Bush dynasty to replace the old enemy “The Soviet Union”. Governments create mythological enemies to distract from domestic problems. If something goes wrong at home the news becomes focused overseas on the imaginary enemy. But the “war on terror” is treated like a real war. People are being wrongfully and terminally imprisoned due to two diabolical anti-terrorism acts for which there is no terrorism. And because it is being portrayed as a war wartime measures, the first victim of which is the truth, are in place. Nearly as many media staff were killed in the first year of the Iraq war. Journalists in the Ukraine are being targeted all to stop the truth getting out. In fact where did you see that journalists were being shot at on MSM? Speaks for itself.

  77. Nicola Sturgeon is coming on the Marr programme later. Cleggover too. BBC1.

    Ann Treneman and John Simpson, the BBC’s saviour of the Western world, review the papers.

  78. John – I heard on Stourton’s Sunday on BBC Radio 4 earlier that there is a video running in a loop at the newly opened Ground Zero Museum that portrays Muslims in a bad light (linking to Alki Ada) and that it is causing great upset to the Muslim community in America. Disgraceful.

    ‘As the National September 11 Memorial Museum opened this week Edward talks to Matt Wells about the row over a museum film some say unfairly links Islam and terrorism.’

    Homophobia in Church Schools; Pope in the Holy Land; Baha’i Cemetery Bulldozed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b043wk06 16mins 15secs in

  79. This young MSP was on QT last Thursday.

    http://www.humzayousaf.org/

    Recommended on Medialens.

    ‘This young Scottish MSP fella kicked establishment arses on BBC QT on Thursday night

    P Ashdown and Esther McVey looked so artificial and full of shite against him, as well as ‘zany’ Torygraph fella and Blairite lady. He was really good, and on his own.

    The BBC link here:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b006t1q9

    It is also replayed on the Parliament channel CH 81 tonight at 6pm.

  80. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    18 May, 2014 - 10:18 am

    Mary reports

    “John – I heard on Stourton’s Sunday on BBC Radio 4 earlier that there is a video running in a loop at the newly opened Ground Zero Museum that portrays Muslims in a bad light (linking to Alki Ada) and that it is causing great upset to the Muslim community in America. Disgraceful.

    ‘As the National September 11 Memorial Museum opened this week Edward talks to Matt Wells about the row over a museum film some say unfairly links Islam and terrorism.’”
    ____________________

    Can Mary – or anyone else – supply a link to that video, please?

    I should like to see it and make up my own mind.

    This is because Mary omits to tell us WHO on the radio programme claimed the video
    showed Muslims in a bad light, thereby causing offence, and in the quotation given by Mary I see the words “some say”, which could mean a lot or nothing at all.

    Thanks in advance!

  81. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    18 May, 2014 – 10:18 am

    “Can Mary – or anyone else – supply a link to that video, please?”

    “I should like to see it and make up my own mind.”

    That’s a bit rich coming from you Habbabkuk. You don’t provide links.

    Perhaps you should do your own research, which is what you tell others who ask you for a link.

  82. “Can Mary – or anyone else – supply a link to that video, please?

    I should like to see it and make up my own mind.

    This is because Mary omits to tell us WHO on the radio programme claimed the video
    showed Muslims in a bad light, thereby causing offence, and in the quotation given by Mary I see the words “some say”, which could mean a lot or nothing at all.

    Thanks in advance!

    ———————————————————————-
    Can you, gnats pissing socket, please use your computer for the purposes you bought it, rather than making this blog look like its harbouring geriatric nimpomuks without a single grey cell to rub together.
    Just because you been brought up with servants does not mean this extends into your adult life, now use your fingers for more than just strummin’ boare.

  83. Resident Dissident

    18 May, 2014 - 11:35 am

    “Governments create mythological enemies to distract from domestic problems. If something goes wrong at home the news becomes focused overseas on the imaginary enemy.”

    Strangely enough this analysis is only ever applied to western governments by Mr Goss. Why?

  84. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    18 May, 2014 - 11:40 am

    Doug Scorgie, Nevermind

    Where one is expressing one’s own opinion, having made up one’s own mind, it’s not always necessary to provide links.

    Mary, on the other hand, was referring to something concrete – not an opinion of her own but to a video which exists (I have no reason to disbelieve her) and therefore it’s perfectly legitimate to ask for a link.

    What is your objection to someone wishing to see the video mentioned by Mary for him/herself?

    *****************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  85. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    18 May, 2014 - 11:43 am

    Nevermind

    “Just because you been brought up with servants does not mean this extends into your adult life, now use your fingers..etc..”
    ________________

    If that’s a job application, Nevermind, then I regret to have to inform you that you would not be suitable, as I only employ people of sound mind.

  86. “Claims the anti-independence campaign is deliberately seeking to avoid debating with its rivals have been made after yet another Unionist politician refused to appear at a pre-arranged event.”

    “Last month a huge event organised in Glasgow saw Yes campaigners forced to scour the city for participants willing to argue in favour of a No vote after Better Together refused to take part. The failure to debate follows a string of events that have shown a marked move to Yes after members of the public are presented with arguments from both sides.”

    http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9201-no-campaign-accused-of-pulling-speakers-from-debates

  87. Resident Dissident

    18 May, 2014 - 11:46 am

    For those who wish to understand both sides of the argument rather than having it filtered ideologically!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/nyregion/interfaith-panel-denounces-a-9-11-museum-exhibits-portrayal-of-islam.html?_r=0

  88. Habba: You get double time on a Sunday don’t you ? Your job keeps you busy on this blog 24 hours a day.No wonder you have this mantra Life is good. HM keeps your fridge full for sitting on your butt all day.
    Would love to see the job description.

  89. FFS Can’t trolls even read? I know they are incapable of intelligent thought but really!

    I gave the link and even the time of the piece.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b043wk06 16mins 15secs in

  90. Resident Dissident

    18 May, 2014 - 11:48 am

    “Claims the anti-independence campaign is deliberately seeking to avoid debating with its rivals have been made after yet another Unionist politician refused to appear at a pre-arranged event.”

    Strangely enough I have just heard Nicola Sturgeon on Andrew Marr refer to debates taking place throughout Scotland.

  91. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    18 May, 2014 - 12:05 pm

    Mary

    I was asking for a link to the video running at the 9/11 museum, Mary, and not the link to the BBC radio programme.

    Can you supply, please (or get your son Doug)to do it)?

    Thanks again.

  92. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    18 May, 2014 - 12:07 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “Last month a huge event organised in Glasgow saw Yes campaigners forced to scour the city for participants willing to argue in favour of a No vote …

    __________________

    Do you think that intimidation might be playing a rôle here, Doug?

  93. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    18 May, 2014 - 12:10 pm

    DoNNyDarKo

    “Habba: You get double time on a Sunday don’t you ?”
    __________________

    No, Donny, that’s Saturday.

    Enjoy the Sachhertorte and coffee now, and have a great day.

    ***************

    La vita è bellissima, life is great!

  94. But you surely you all already know that everything political is made up on a daily sub-prime ministerial basis for presidential type briefings and pimped and pumped by compromised media to create a buzz and seeds to feed what is hoped to be thought up for tomorrow. And it is why there is such conflict and chaos on such a stage and in platforms which be so fully entertaining of the intellectually challenged and perversely corrupt, because what is presented is so pathetically poor and not good and great.

    The bigger question is what are going to do about it with Command and Control of IT and the money system and CyberSpace?

    Or have you planned and be you quite content to leave it all and IT to others who know how to handle such things virtually remotely and relatively anonymously?

    Methinks that be a really smart move and most wise in these strange new days with magic zerodays to exploit and expand upon.

  95. Res Diss : There are debates going on all through Scotland in pubs, in homes and the workplace.As I pointed out to an Englishman who seemed to think that the Scots were blindly heading toward independence with no thought to the consequences, was all wrong.Never before have the Scots and other residents been so interested in a vote as it offers real change and an alternative to a corrupt and archaic system devoid of democracy.It shows a healthy interest in the future from the people taking part.The politicians , NO campaign , or anti independence campaign avoid debate, or when they are in debate they ask the moderators for help to avoid answering simple questions.They have an unhealthy interest in keeping a status quo which offers no future,just more of the same.
    Cameron who said he would offer more power to the Scottish people couldn’t give a hint or an example of what he meant.
    Strangely enough I have heard that the Govt has secreted away the last poll.
    Why would they do that Res Diss ?? Any idea’s ?? Have you any examples where the No campaign have been in debate with the Yes campaign?

  96. Back to topic

    Scotland on Sunday front page today -

    Scottish independence: Yes vote at 8-month low
    SUPPORT for independence has fallen dramatically over the past four weeks, according to an exclusive poll that puts backing for Yes at its lowest level since September last year.
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-yes-vote-at-8-month-low-1-3414582

    Who owns the paper?
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_on_Sunday

    > Johnston Publishing Ltd

    > The three directors

    Ashley Highfield
    http://companycheck.co.uk/director/916440044
    Ashley Highfield holds 82 appointments at 82 active companies, has resigned from 0 companies and held 0 appointments at 0 dissolved companies. Ashley began his first appointment at the age of 43 and his longest current appointment spans 5 years and 6 months at WILLIAM HILL PLC.
    The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where Ashley holds a current appointment equals £213,977,000, with a combined assets value of £1,905,934,100 and liabilities of £2,262,716,000.

    David King
    http://companycheck.co.uk/director/917902043
    David King holds 48 appointments at 48 active companies, has resigned from 29 companies and held 2 appointments at 2 dissolved companies. David began their first appointment at the age of 39 and their longest current appointment spans 4 years and 7 months at REACH TO TEACH.
    The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where David holds a current appointment equals £39,731,188, with a combined assets value of £1,712,705,836 and liabilities of £2,019,146,570.

    An interesting list of historic directorships there too, some with BBC names, eg BBC Com, BBC Worldwide, BBC Earth Productions etc

    Neil Jones
    http://companycheck.co.uk/director/910565974
    Neil Jones holds 2 appointments at 2 active companies, has resigned from 5 companies and held 0 appointments at 0 dissolved companies. Neil began their first appointment at the age of 28 and their longest current appointment spans 2 years and 2 months at NEIL JONES MEDIA CONSULTING LTD.
    The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where Neil holds a current appointment equals £7,315,928, with a combined assets value of £1,412,976,528 and liabilities of £1,772,588,977.

  97. Sofia Kibo Noh

    18 May, 2014 - 12:41 pm

    WARNING

    Vote Yes and Beware of Flesh Eating Zombies

    http://media.cagle.com/85/2014/05/09/148247_600.jpg

  98. doug scorgie

    18 May, 2014 - 1:00 pm

    O/T

    Kelly ben Maimon
    15 May, 2014 – 11:16 am

    “To go in to school, as a school governor, I needed to be a political appointee, as I didn’t have children. This meant that I had to join the Lib Dems.”

    That is not true is it Kelly?

    “You don’t need to have children or be a parent of a child at the school to become a school governor.”

    http://www.sgoss.org.uk/volunteers/volunteer-role.html

    If you are still reading this blog please explain.

  99. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    18 May, 2014 - 1:36 pm

    Doug Scorgie

    While you’re waiting for Kelly, let me try and help you.

    “That is not true is it Kelly?

    “You don’t need to have children or be a parent of a child at the school to become a school governor.”

    http://www.sgoss.org.uk/volunteers/volunteer-role.html
    ______________________

    If you read her comment carefully, Doug, you’ll see that Kelly’s not claiming you need to have children at the school in order to become a governor there. What she is saying is that if you don’t have children at that school, you can still become a governor there but that you need to be well on with a local politician.

    Hope that helps, Doug.

    ****************

    I’ve noticed that you usually wait for a couple of days before “commenting” on someone else’s comment. Is this because you’re hoping that everyone will have forgotten what was in the original comment, thus enabling you to get away with selective quoting? That would be rather dishonest of you, wouldn’t it, Doug.

  100. Thanks Mary for the museum heads-up. Another institution stockpiling a depository of lies…

  101. Resident Dissident

    18 May, 2014 - 3:20 pm

    “I’ve noticed that you usually wait for a couple of days before “commenting” on someone else’s comment. Is this because you’re hoping that everyone will have forgotten what was in the original comment, thus enabling you to get away with selective quoting? That would be rather dishonest of you, wouldn’t it, Doug.”

    Yes I’ve noticed this technique not a few times in the past – and it is often accompanied by a request/command for a response.

  102. Resident Dissident

    18 May, 2014 - 3:52 pm

    @DD
    “Res Diss : There are debates going on all through Scotland in pubs, in homes and the workplace.”

    strangely enough I always thought that it took at least two sides to have a debate!

  103. Has anyone come up with a new design for the Union Jack sans Scottish white cross? I’d like to be the first to throw my preferred design into the ring.

    Remembering that a flag should be an official emblem that describes a nation in terms of its land, its people, its history and its hopes, this is what I’d like to see for the UK.

    An elegantly designed Union Jack based on a chocolate brown, not blue, background with nothing in the foreground. Brown symbolises the richness of its soil, the colour of its people, the substance of its national discourse and a clear vision of its future.

    If you like my design, please vote it #1 at http://www.flagsinternational.com/brown-flag.html

    Thanks

  104. Glad you have always thought ResDiss,
    Debate can also mean discussion. There are many people in favour of Independence for different reasons. The fact that there have been so many lies thrown in from the NO side ,means that potential yes voters worried about their pensions are suddenly cast into the not sure WTF to do category.It takes more than one person to have a debate, but there doesn’T necessarily have to be two sides.

  105. I see we are still linked on ‘Islam – Scraping off the Whitewash’ and not ‘Why won’t God help Amputees’ or similar.

    I heard Stourton’s Sunday programme as I said earlier. The second item following the one about the Pope’s visit to Jordan, Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories was about asylum seekers, their voyages and the treatment of the survivors once arrived in Australia.

    5mins 30secs in http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b043wk06

  106. Resident Dissident

    18 May, 2014 - 4:49 pm

    DD

    You are just insulting the intelligence of the majority of the Scottish people – who are quite capable of making their own arguments against independence – this rhetoric that all those thinking of voting no are somehow being duped is quite frankly bullshit, and is the same rhetoric we have always received from those peddling ideas which are just plain unpopular.

    There are plenty of public meetings going on in Scotland where both sides are putting their case – and even Nicola Sturgeon had sufficient sense to accept that this was happening.

  107. Meant to say that the post http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/the-acanchi-effect/#comment-457822
    was offensive and not funny.

  108. Don’t forget Resident Dissident’s view on the Odessa Trade Union building murders, was only regret that more weren’t killed and weren’t killed sooner. How he or any of his tag-team associates have the cheek to return here and resume their sanctimonious postings, bowing and scraping before and on behalf of power and privilege, beggars belief.

  109. doug scorgie

    18 May, 2014 - 5:19 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    18 May, 2014 – 1:36 pm

    “If you read her comment carefully, Doug, you’ll see that Kelly’s not claiming you need to have children at the school in order to become a governor there. What she is saying is that if you don’t have children at that school, you can still become a governor there but that you need to be well on with a local politician.”

    That is a complete lie Habbabkuk and you know it.

    You don’t have to be a parent in ANY school to be a school governor.

    “…but that you need to be well on with a local politician.”

    Not true Habbabkuk, complete tosh.

    Perhaps you know Kelly personally. If so ask her to reply to my query, if not give her the chance to respond on her own.

  110. In the light of the ‘total war’ promised ref Nigeria, Kenya, Mali, Somalia, Chad etc etc. this fits.

    ‘Washington spends £200m creating intelligence hub in Britain

    RAF Croughton, near Milton Keynes, is to have 1,250 staff and will cover US operations in Africa

    Cahal Milmo
    Sunday 18 May 2014

    Washington is to spend almost £200m to turn one of its British military bases – already implicated in mass surveillance and drone strikes – into one of its largest intelligence hubs outside the mainland United States.

    RAF Croughton, a US Air Force (USAF) base near Milton Keynes, which has a direct cable link to Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) at Cheltenham, is to be the site for an ultra-secure intelligence centre staffed by up to 1,250 personnel and covering operations in Africa, a current focus for US counterterrorism activities.

    The $317m (£189m) project, which includes an installation for the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s main military espionage service, underlines RAF Croughton’s position as a centre for clandestine and classified US communications in Britain.

    Once complete in 2017, the facility will be comparable in number of personnel and operational importance to RAF Menwith Hill, the National Security Agency (NSA) listening station in North Yorkshire. Like Menwith Hill, it is likely to be co-staffed with representatives of British intelligence, including GCHQ.

    The Independent, the sister title of The Independent on Sunday, revealed last year that RAF Croughton was used to funnel back to Washington data from a global network of spy bases inside US embassies, including the secret Berlin facility alleged to have been used by the NSA to listen in on the mobile phone of the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel.

    The British base, which currently serves as a relay station for CIA agent communications, is also at the centre of claims that it is used as a support site for US drone strikes operated from Camp Lemonnier in Djibouti against al-Qa’ida targets inside Yemen.

    Campaigners and senior politicians yesterday said the massive investment in RAF Croughton raised fresh questions about the oversight of US bases in Britain, which are governed by a 1950s agreement with Washington drawn up in a different age of surveillance technologies.

    Labour MP Tom Watson, a former defence minister, said: “The new spend of $317m on facilities at RAF Croughton is a shocking revelation. There can be no doubt now that communications activities there must be thoroughly reviewed, and arrangements governing use of the base updated.”

    Details of the RAF Croughton project obtained by this newspaper show that the upgrade will involve the “consolidation” of six existing US intelligence groups, currently based at RAF Molesworth in Cambridgeshire, into a single facility at RAF Croughton.

    The Pentagon said the project was required to move intelligence staff out of outmoded and unsuitable accommodation at Molesworth, saving at least $75m a year. The move will lead to “divestiture”, or closure, of the Cambridgeshire base and its neighbour RAF Alconbury, which are estimated to contribute £40m a year to the local economy.

    The result will be a substantial further concentration of US intelligence firepower at RAF Croughton, whose stated purpose is to provide “world-class combat support” for activities including “global strike operations” and has recently had its security arrangements tightened.

    A USAF briefing document makes it clear that the facility at RAF Croughton will be at the front line of intelligence activities and will include personnel from unnamed British agencies. The facility will be the principle intelligence centre for the USafricom – or Africa command.

    It emerged last year that British Telecom provided a high-speed fibre-optic line between RAF Croughton and Camp Lemonnier, the counterterrorism operations base used for drone strikes in Yemen and the Horn of Africa.

    The existence of the communications link has caused concern that RAF Croughton is used to relay command and control data from drone operators, possibly based in the US, to Djibouti. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has stated that US personnel at the base “neither fly nor control any manned or remotely piloted aircraft anywhere in the world”.

    Lindis Percy, co-ordinator of the Campaign for the Accountability of American Airbases, said: “This massive new development at Croughton is clearly of great importance to the American military and government, but what say has the British Parliament or the Ministry of Defence had? It is high time that the issue of what goes on on US bases is debated in Parliament so there is a meaningful and credible debate and oversight on behalf of the British people.”

    The MoD yesterday insisted that all activities on US bases were subject to British approval. A spokesman said: “There are no circumstances under which UK military assets, including those bases made available to the US, could be used operationally by the US without the agreement of Her Majesty’s Government.” ‘

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/washington-spends-200m-creating-intelligence-hub-in-britain-9391406.html

  111. Resident Dissident

    18 May, 2014 - 6:00 pm

    “Don’t forget Resident Dissident’s view on the Odessa Trade Union building murders, was only regret that more weren’t killed and weren’t killed sooner.”

    Don’t forget TonyM is a lying c*** prepared to twist and distort fro his master.

  112. Mary
    18 May, 2014 – 5:20 pm

    ‘RAF’ Croughton is developing in alignment with Camp Lemonnier, Djibouti, America’s largest military base in Eastern Africa. The site serves as a hub for drone strikes in Yemen etc and is a suspected CIA secret (black) prison where intelligence agents intimidate ‘targets’ such as Mahdi Hashi, a Somalia-born US citizen, to become a British/American intelligence informants and ultimately patsies when ‘entanglement’ is complete.

    Croughton routes drone command and control information to UK and other personnel embedded at Camp Lemonnier.

    Reprieve’s legal director Kat Craig said: “This is yet more evidence that the UK is deeply involved in the shady abuses of the ‘war on terror.’

    The stationing of UK personnel at a base which has been identified as playing a key part in the secretive, unaccountable and illegal campaign of drone strikes in Yemen raises serious questions, as does the Yemeni president’s statement that Britain is involved in targeting the strikes.

    The government must no longer dodge questions over its role in the secret drone war – it is high time it came clean with the British public.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/12/uk-troops-us-base-djibouti-drones-yemen-mod-reveals

  113. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    18 May, 2014 - 7:04 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    ““…but that you need to be well on with a local politician.”

    Not true Habbabkuk, complete tosh.”
    __________________

    You should argue that one out with Kelly, Doug.

    But I think you’d probably agree that it never hurts to be well in with a local councillor or two, or, conversely, it is not always wise to have made an enemy out of a councillor or two (as you may yourself have found out…..)

  114. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    18 May, 2014 - 7:08 pm

    :)

  115. I see someone is still obsessively posting links on Israel, Jews or similar – and making nonsensically truncated observations of what my tag links to. :/

    I also see that today she has dropped the ironic badge of “Truth and Justice” – no doubt on the good advice of someone who can see the immodesty of such bombast. A person so wilfully ignorant of the concept of “Truth”, whatever that might one day be, and conveniently in no position to oversee the difficult job of “Justice”, has no right to smugly proclaim special knowledge or appreciation of those words.

    “Truth AND Justice”

    They look so good together – unspoken – don’t they?

    You would think that devoting oneself to just one or the other would be sufficiently noble a cause. But no. The two, together, is even better.

    Comfortably juxtaposed beside one another, Truth AND Justice have, like eponymously tattooed fists (the left being a squeeze-in), a power that requires no further contemplation and which will tolerate no further enquiry. All you are required to do is to stand in awe of their combined majesty.

    But don’t say them out loud. Because if you do, they will sound hollow, wistful and treacherous – like a haunting echo of a once great speech that never delivers on its promises but leaves desperate people in cynical disappointment for the rest of their lives.

    Truth And Justice … Bullshit And Vengeance

    Sounds the same, to me.

  116. doug scorgie

    18 May, 2014 - 8:23 pm

    Resident Dissident
    18 May, 2014 – 3:20 pm

    Quoting Habbabkuk:

    “I’ve noticed that you usually wait for a couple of days before “commenting” on someone else’s comment. Is this because you’re hoping that everyone will have forgotten what was in the original comment, thus enabling you to get away with selective quoting? That would be rather dishonest of you, wouldn’t it, Doug.”

    ResDis:
    “Yes I’ve noticed this technique not a few times in the past – and it is often accompanied by a request/command for a response.”

    Not true ResDis, as you know, I always provide a link for other posters to refer to something your associate Habbabkuk doesn’t do.

  117. Sofia Kibo Noh

    18 May, 2014 - 9:46 pm

    Jemand. 4 05pm

    Poor Jemand. 4 05pm

    Forever troubled by nightmare fantasies of a horrific rising tide of sinister brown untermenschen swamping the racial purity of the old country.

    Too bad the inverse actually happened to the Australians. A living nightmare for sure!

    The British
    by Benjamin Zephaniah
    Take some Picts, Celts and Silures
    And let them settle,
    Then overrun them with Roman conquerors.

    Remove the Romans after approximately 400 years
    Add lots of Norman French to some
    Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Vikings, then stir vigorously.

    Mix some hot Chileans, cool Jamaicans, Dominicans,
    Trinidadians and Bajans with some Ethiopians, Chinese,
    Vietnamese and Sudanese.

    Then take a blend of Somalians, Sri Lankans, Nigerians
    And Pakistanis,
    Combine with some Guyanese
    And turn up the heat.

    Sprinkle some fresh Indians, Malaysians, Bosnians,
    Iraqis and Bangladeshis together with some
    Afghans, Spanish, Turkish, Kurdish, Japanese
    And Palestinians
    Then add to the melting pot.

    Leave the ingredients to simmer.

  118. Nice text Sofia, not a significant omission too but further variety is that the occupying Roman Legions, who would certainly have left their mark on the local populations over the course of the hundred of years of Southern Britain’s occupation, would in the majority have come from other Empire conquered outposts and lands, so there’s a huge additional admixture there, research amongst British Isles Roman occupation artefacts suggest substantive numbers from places as far afield as The Ukraine, as it then might have been and the middle-east.

  119. “Jemand. 4 05pm

    Poor Jemand. 4 05pm

    Forever troubled by nightmare fantasies of a horrific rising tide of sinister brown untermenschen swamping the racial purity of the old country.

    Too bad the inverse actually happened to the Australians. A living nightmare for sure!”

    – – — – — – — –

    Sofia, you can only live in hope that, someday, you will get an education and see things for what they really are and not what you imagine them to be. And perhaps become the better person you also imagine yourself to be without the snooty sense of superiority (it gets stale after a while).

    And when reading my comments, it helps to have a sense of humour. They’re free you know, you can download one off of the internet. Make sure you download the 64 bit version, it’s more sophisticated.

    And regarding racial purity, i’ll leave it to those racialists to worry about, including you, who actually believe in the idea of “race” let alone an ‘innocent’ vs ‘guilty’ race.

    PS – My mother’s house was burgled by one of your favoured brown children not long ago. She was still in the house at the time of the burglary. We know it was one of your innocents (note sarcasm) because he thoughtfully left a handprint which was soon matched by police to his criminal record and a stolen car in which some of my mother’s personal effects were found. I shouldn’t expect you to care about the outcome – as lucky as she was to have not disturbed the intruder given that we have many cases of fatal bashings, rapes and murders by burglars in my part of the world. Nor should I expect you to understand the relevance of this short tale because, as you are either a self-hating white person, or white-hating brown person, you choose not to see that people are the same – good and bad shades in every colour of the rainbow. I have many more stories about innocent people doing bad things. It’s just too bad that the innocents get gaoled and not the guilty like my white mother. The shame I feel.. *sob*

    PPS – I heard that moral consciences are on sale for a short time. Better hurry, Sofia, and get one while they last.

  120. The Truth and Justice handle is a relic of the time when I was being hounded here by trolls. It is in a list of names which appeared in a box when I had to re-enter my name and e-mail address recently and I must have clicked on it by mistake. I only spotted it yesterday and corrected it. Also there is April Showers, Flaming June and La Vita non e Bella and some others which some here might remember from that horrible time. I don’t know how to clear them. Any suggestions?

    Hope that explanation satisfies our Australian racist friend who submitted the suggestion for a brown flag earlier today.

  121. Sumer is Icumen in…….well it is in the Northern Hemisphere. :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHFxxZmyxDg

  122. Sorry to hear that very sad tale of Oz settler life as victims of the dispossessed native people.

    You see, when you steal a people’s land, possessions and ability to live their normal life, you’re supposed to either genocide most of them or at the very least place them on concentrated reservations where they in their misery can only harm one another.

    The Israelis are quite good at this and the British and Americans etc have lessons to teach as well.

    Following these practices can give you a few hundred years of peace and quiet to enjoy you acquisitions.

    Just don’t expect it to last forever.

  123. For Mary and Jemand

    A gift from Australia to Palestine

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k81p2LCj_cs

  124. Sofia Kibo Noh

    19 May, 2014 - 1:02 am

    Jemand. 10 25pm

    Well there’s something on which we have common ground. I’m glad your mother was unharmed.

    My parents too were not attacked when, in their old age, two burglars visited their house and took some of their stuff.

    Tell me was the criminality in this case caused by the whiteness of their skin or the fact that there’ll always be people of all shades willing to do bad things?

  125. Sofia Kibo Noh

    19 May, 2014 - 1:36 am

    Tony M.

    An amazing mix!

    Vive La Diversité.

    BUT, don’t you think it’s important to understand the gravity of the threats we face from the wily brown hordes.

    “The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have therefore raised their security level from ‘Miffed’ to ‘Peeved.’ Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to ‘Irritated’ or even ‘A Bit Cross.’ (The English have not been ‘A Bit Cross’ since the Blitz in 1940, when tea supplies nearly ran out.)
    Terrorists have been re-categorized from ‘Tiresome’ to ‘A Bloody Nuisance.’ (The last time the British issued a ‘Bloody Nuisance’ warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.)”

    John Cleese

    Thank goodness the world is in safe hands.

    http://otherwords.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/obama-no-exit-military-strategy-cartoon.jpg

  126. The Israelis are quite good at this and the British and Americans etc have lessons to teach as well.

    The Canadians also have experience in this

  127. Do you think that intimidation might be playing a rôle here, Doug?

    It is my understanding that a lack of positive benefits of the union, prevents them from getting any serious attendance at their meetings. If they do participate in a public debate, it seems that they cannot convince the audience of their message.

  128. More concern about skin colour

    Mitt Romney Rips Anti-Obama Police Official’s ‘Vile Epithet,’ Calls On Him To Resign
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/18/mitt-romney-robert-copeland_n_5347778.html

    Obama himself has ordered the extrajudicial killing of hundreds of brown skinned people by drone and missile. No irony.

    Heard this morning that Libya, one of the USUKIsNATO theatres of war, is like ‘a volcano about to explode’.

    Libya fighting causes turmoil as government claims control
    The Libyan government insists that it is in control of the country despite a series of heavy attacks and clashes over the weekend.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27465173

    Militia in Libya attacks parliament; 7 lawmakers reportedly captured
    http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-libya-former-general-clashes-20140518-story.html
    ▼Ex-general’s forces in Libya attack parliament building in escalation of challenge to government

    ▼Libyan lawmakers reportedly captured in attack on parliament building by ex-general’s forces

    ▼Anti-Islamist offensive in Benghazi by Libyan ex-general’s forces was criticized by central government

  129. For incidental visitors — please note that this blog’s comments section is Scratch ‘n’ Sniff. Just scratch the surface and you will smell the stench of rank hypocrisy.

    @Mary

    Thank you for your tediously elaborate explanation of why you occasionally still post comments with a battle flag emblazoned with “Truth and Justice”. It doesn’t, however, explain why you originally thought you could hijack that term for your own (mis)use.

    @Sofia, Herbie et al,

    I simply believe in personal accountability, the lack of which you often attack in ambitious public officials but puzzlingly forgive in the nameless criminals who burgle, steal, rape and murder. You can make all the excuses you like about why people commit these heinous crimes but only a person of low character and harbouring a churlish hatred of (some) others will selectively relieve people of personal accountability on the basis of ethnicity. Sounds a bit “racist”, to me.

    I think Herbie’s callous mocking of my short account of one such crime speaks volumes for the sort of person he is. We could switch the colours around in the story and, like a minature poodle doing somersaults to please its master, Herbie would flip his response to suit. It’s called ‘having no integrity’.

    His referring to me as a “settler” is as funny for its obvious inaccuracy as it is nasty for its sinister intent. Just ignore the fact that, like everyone, I had no say where I would be born. His flippant use of that single word, “settler”, is a shamelessly racist tactic to _dispossess_ me of my place in the world. On other threads you will probably find him extolling the virtues of historical migration.

    You will notice that the various lord protectors of humanity here will self-righteously rail against so-called “racism” while impertinently focussing on the ethnic details of their targets and critics.

    Mary’s quite good at exposing the “Jewishness” of her targets and juxtaposing their Jew-factor with seemingly unrelated facts. But connecting Mary’s ‘dots’ reveals the unmistakable structure of an underlying conspiracy that, diagrammatically, uncannily resembles a child’s drawing of spaghetti.

    And with me as one of several critics, they will use German words because they think it is witty to infer from my tag that I am an evil Nazi sympathiser and oddly refer to my being in Oz to imply that I am an evil invader of others’ lands. The references serve no other purpose than to evade the substance of my arguments by falsely indicting me of imaginary crimes. It is all in keeping with that unique use of language that is comprehensively explained in the excellent book, “The Lonely Blog’s Guide to Propaganda and Making Friends”.

  130. This is a turn up for the books. The Astra Zeneca board have rejected Pfizer’s final offer, as it was described.

    AstraZeneca Rejects Pfizer ‘Final Offer’

    AstraZeneca says Pfizer’s latest £69.3bn takeover bid undervalues the company and brings “uncertainty and risks” for shareholders.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1264321/astrazeneca-rejects-pfizer-final-offer

  131. ‘Truth and Justice’ because that is what we all want and need.

    I do not use the word Jew. Israeli Zionism is the problem.

    I support the Palestinian cause here along with many others. Is that not allowed?

    There has been no apology for the tasteless post about a brown flag. Worthy of the BNP in this country.

    The poster from Australia was one of the group who hounded me. I have not forgotten.

  132. Sofia Kibo Noh

    19 May, 2014 - 8:25 am

    Jemand. 10 25pm

    Again, feeding you obsession with and fear of, brown skin pigment.

    You’ve made it clear over the months that you clearly feel your pale skin gives you the right to occupy and exploit the land of others. In this case, brown-skinned others who inhabited for over 40,000 years.

    Within a few short years the treatment of this land and it’s living components by your brothers has led to large-scale degradation of soil and water. I don’t need your “education” to know for sure that these are the fundamentals. On the current trajectory this asset-stripping episode will be brief. Whether your descendents leave any long-term genetic presence on that continent will depend on whether they can educate themselves regarding the things that really matter. Luckily the locals have passed on and protected a priceless cultural heritage which, if you learn a little humility, will help with the job of reorienting your attitudes and actions.

    My mother’s house was burgled by one of your favoured brown children not long ago.
    We know it was one of your innocents (note sarcasm) because he thoughtfully left a handprint which was soon matched by police to his criminal record.”

    WTF does the colour of his skin have to do with this? Did it have any more to do with it than the colour of the policeman’s skin had to do with doing the bleeding obvious and matching prints.

    You suggest that I “…perhaps become the better person you also imagine yourself to be without the snooty sense of superiority (it gets stale after a while).”
    I’ll take that as a compliment from someone who clearly doesn’t have the brains to give himself a headache.

    You set the bar so low!

  133. That’s very funny, Jemand.

    You dispossess them, steal their land and livelihood and then you demand of them “personal responsibility”, and not to nick your stuff.

    It’d be a different matter were you someone such as Pilger who argued for an equitable settlement, but no, you’re not even that. You’re one of their tormentors. Murdoch-like, prowling the planet for sport.

    What goes around, comes around.

    So suck it up, settler.

    You’ll get no sympathy from me.

  134. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    19 May, 2014 - 9:00 am

    Mr Scorgie

    “Not true ResDis, as you know, I always provide a link for other posters to refer to something your associate Habbabkuk doesn’t do.”
    ___________________

    Yes, you usually do – and then, perhaps hoping that most people “couldn’t be arsed” to look up the link (remember that expression of yours, Doug?), you proceed to quote selectively from it.

    There have been many examples of this misleading and mendacious behaviour from you, Doug.

  135. I have just met an American girl who brought her cocker spaniel Leopold over from America. He spent six months in Austria before coming here. He is so frightened (the dog trainer has told her) that his only defence is to go on the attack. Poor chap. She keeps him on a lead which is making him even more defensive.

    My dog who is a black mongrel laid down but as soon as he was allowed to come near, he went on the attack. I think she has a problem.

  136. Better news than usual.

    Putin orders Ukraine border pullout
    Breaking news
    Russia’s President Putin orders troops near Ukraine border to return “immediately” to their permanent bases

  137. Sofia, it appears to be you and Mary who are obsessed with the colour brown and the incontrovertible innocence of people of that hue. Your many, many, many combined comments are testimony to this observation.

    I am going to ask you some pointed questions in this reply and I expect that if you want to defend your intellectual honesty and moral integrity, then you will address them accurately, in good faith and without quibbling.

    Mary claims she has never used the word “Jew”, and you shamelessly let that go by unchallenged while plugging your favourite subject, the oppression of brown people by white people. How do you explain Mary’s recorded history of using the word “Jew” and various euphemisms on this blog many hundreds if not thousands of times?

    And tell me Sofia, while you are supposedly not racist, how is it that you believe that some brown coloured person owns the riches beneath the soil of Oz, and I do not? By what logic does he inherit the right, while I do not, to the treasures of geological processes that took place aeons before life on Earth even began? How does our respective skin colours factor into your equation of Justice? From your own comment, it seems that we were not born equal after all. Rather, he is the rightful landowner and I am merely a rude squatter – all based on the colour of our skin AS YOU DESCRIBE IT. Please explain how that works WITHOUT being RACIST?

    And where does the “right” to own anything come from?

    You have made a bold claim that I “clearly feel [my] pale skin gives [me] the right to occupy and exploit the land of others.”

    Sofia, how do you know what “rights” I might think I have? And what land do you claim that I (unrightfully) “occupy” and “exploit”? The land immediately beneath my feet? The land thousands of kilometres away? What land?

    When you lecture on soil degradation, what was my part in this crime? Are you grouping me with others on the basis of my skin colour? Are you including me in a collective accusation of wrongdoing based on my ethnicity? How is this not “racist”?

    What land do YOU think I have a “right” to “occupy” and “exploit”? Where would you have me go if I am to be evicted in your vision of Justice? And what land do YOU have a right to occupy and exploit? How is it that some people have these rights and I do not?

    Sofia, you claimed that my “brothers” did bad things. Do you know my “brothers”? Or is that another racist euphemism for like-coloured people with whom I have no association whatsoever? Can you explain your choice of this term?

    And tell me more, Sofia, what do you mean by “Whether your descendents leave any long-term genetic presence ..”? What is the purpose of the term “genetic” in this statement if it is not fundamentally concerned with “race” and a barely concealed expression of contempt for Caucasians?

    You, Sofia, ironically said it yourself – QUOTE “WTF does the colour of his skin have to do with this?” END QUOTE

    Can you not see the hypocrisy in your own language?

    Sofia, if we were to pass each other in the street, I’m sure we’d just say “hello” and walk on, none the wiser as to our online identities. But you do know a lot more about me than I do about you and yet, it causes me no harm in you knowing. So in the spirit of fair and open discourse are you prepared to identify your ethnicity? You will agree that it can do you no harm, especially in relation to the damage to your credibility if you decline to be open in the way that I have been.

    So, let us clear this all up. Be kind enough, honest enough and brave enough to answer all of my simple questions above and, who knows, Sofia, maybe it will resolve some of our differences.ve

  138. Herbie, you’re an imbecile of no intellectual value. I apologise for wasting my time addressing you directly.

  139. Israel warns extremists ahead of papal visit
    Police chief warns Jewish extremists over attempts to disrupt Pope Francis visit as church leaders raise security fears.
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/05/israel-warns-extremists-ahead-papal-visit-201451819853808940.html

    ‘Israel’s police chief has vowed that Jewish extremists will not be allowed to spoil the upcoming visit of Pope Francis by vandalising Christian holy places.

    Speaking to reporters in Jerusalem on Sunday, Police Commissioner Yohanan Danino said a group of “extreme elements” were attempting “to create pressure and the impression of pressure” ahead of the pontiff’s visit, which begins on May 25.

    “There have been attempts here – principally as we get closer to the visit itself – by some extremists to try and make a provocation, and create a bad atmosphere before the visit,” Danino said.

    “We have absolutely no intention of tolerating this,” he said.

    Israel has been struggling to contain a wave of so-called “price tag” hate crimes by Jewish extremists targeting Palestinian and Arab property, which has included an increasing number of vandalism attacks on mosques and churches.’

  140. Leave off with the ad hominems please @ 7.52am and 9.42am. Those contained in the long and boring posts re not allowed under the new moderation here.

    Watch out for the Darling pea!

    http://www.nt.gov.au/d/Content/File/p/Anim_Dis/647.pdf

    The poor sheep are banging their heads until their skulls crack. Terrible.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/thousands-of-sheep-in-australia-die-from-banging-their-heads-till-they-crack-open-after-eating-poisonous-plant-9392432.html

  141. I just saw this posted by the editors of Medialens.

    BBC News website editor strikes again for Israel
    Posted by The Editors on May 19, 2014, 9:34 am

    The BBC News website’s Middle East section appears to have become all but officially part of Israel’s propaganda machine, with one report after another distorting indisputable facts to paint the best possible picture of the Zionist state.

    http://www.redressonline.com/2014/05/bbc-news-website-editor-strikes-again-for-israel/

  142. Yes, I know about the “new” moderation here Mary. It’s a lot like the old moderation but now anonymous.

    Ad hominems? Lol!

  143. Lack of radiation records criticised
    Experts investigating radioactivity at Dalgety Bay say it is unacceptable that the UK does not have comprehensive records of potentially contaminated land.

    MoD ’caused beach radiation’
    Beach radiation clean-up debate
    ‘Low risk’ from beach radiation

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-27470332

  144. Skin color is but a superficial manifestation of difference, so no surprise to see Jemand focus on that to the exclusion of all else, in what has to be the most stupid argument I’ve ever encountered on this board.

    The fundamental issue here is the disposession of a people, their way of life and culture.

    Jemand is unable to see that because he places no value upon their culture, or way of life. They’re only Abos.

    Australia was an institutionally racist state until 1973. Now it’s well known for its casual racism.

    You see if you deprive a people of their way of life, you actually deprive them of life itself.

    That’s the fundamental reason for native Australians being 10 times more likely to end up in prison, and having much much poorer educational and health outcomes than the non-Indigenous population.

    The original policy will have been to create conditions where they would be expected to die out in time, but as post war civilisation arrived in Australia in the 1970s they were forced to abandon that hope, and now the Indigenous peoples are increasing their population, but with no remedy to the fundamental problem they just get angrier and angrier in greater numbers.

    As I’ve said, what goes around, comes around.

    You get a similar problem in western societies where corporates so squeeze the life of people for maximum profit that you get increased incidence of mental illness, drug dependency and so on.

    All you really need to know is that it’s the same elite mentality that imposes an unnatural life upon both.

  145. Too good not to pass on. wide ranging. Al Nagba. Hague. Meetings on Syria. Livni. Universal jurisdiction, etc.

    West Funds Insurgencies
    by Felicity Arbuthnot / May 19th, 2014
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/05/west-funds-insurgencies/

  146. Herbie (encyclopaedus ignoramus) dribbling more diarrhoea from above with extra crunchy racial hatred and blaming me personally (i don’t think he’s kidding) for all the ills South of the equator. Even for imaginary crimes against Aboriginal people. No, I’m not referring to real crimes committed by other people, I’m speaking of those crimes that he IMAGINES that I committed personally, myself.

    Can he quote anything that I have written that has been both disparaging and untrue of these people? No. He cannot because he is a pedlar of hate, a common liar filled with a known toxic blend of self-righteousness and secret self-loathing. He has truly found a comfortable place on this blog’s comments section.

    But what crimes will Herbie admit of his own people in the land that they are currently despoiling? Great Britain used to be rich in trees and animal life and its own Aboriginal people, now long gone. They were conveniently disposed of at the ends of pointy sticks in waves of invasions and bred out to diminish all memory of their ancient ways. Christianity tidied up most of the loose ends but since the enlightenment, some have tried to recover what was once thought lost forever. No tears for those “Abos”, as Herbie calls them. He thinks he’s the native, now, with all of those quaint entitlements like perpetual ownership of everything in a spherical radius of a thousand kilometres.

    So, let’s hear it from him. What clever defence will Herbie offer to repudiate his own personal culpability for the many savage killings of the original native Britons and ravaging of the landscape by his marauding ancestors? And of the subsequent terror exported by the British Empire to the many corners of the globe? What has Herbie to say in his own defence?

    Nothing? Or more ejaculations of racist bile?

    Go ahead Herbie, lay before us the foundations of your character. Surprise us with something .. ‘new’.

  147. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    19 May, 2014 - 3:17 pm

    Herbie, Jemand

    Herbie writes

    “Australia was an institutionally racist state until 1973. Now it’s well known for its casual racism”

    and although I’m no expert in matters Australian, that does correspond to everything I’ve read and therefore I don’t think there’s much point in denying it.

    Which is not to say that every Australian (eg Jemand) should be considered a racist (except by heritage, perhaps). On the other hand, neither is it very profitable for Jemand to point to the racist heritage of other nations – the history of the entire world is characterised by continual displacements (or exterminations) of indigenous peoples.

    What counts today, surely, is what govts do in terms both of making good (to the extent possible) past wrongs and combatting the racism which remains at the personal level.

    I’m sorry to see that neither Jemand nor Herbie have given any time to the above in their comments.

  148. From Habbabkuk :

    Herbie writes

    “Australia was an institutionally racist state until 1973. Now it’s well known for its casual racism”

    and although I’m no expert in matters Australian, that does correspond to everything I’ve read and therefore I don’t think there’s much point in denying it.

    - – - -

    Hababbkuk, I have never denied that my country has some problems, only the mischievous exaggerations by troublemakers as you very well understand.

    If Australia is so institutionally or “casually” racist, why do hordes of non-white migrants flee their Utopian homelands to settle in the hostile environment of a racist state? Can anyone answer that conundrum while keeping a straight face?

    In relation to what governments do in terms making good on past wrongs and combating the alleged racism which remains at the personal level, this is demonstrably not the forum for polite, educated discourse on such matters. If you think it is, or can be, please lead the way.

    At a personal level, the government cannot prescribe social relations with any positive effect. It takes people who live in troubled communities, not bureaucrats, to mend those fences. Look at your Northern Ireland and tell me what the government can do other than NOT engage in warfare.

    Our close neighbour racist? No!!! It can’t be true!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumiputera_%28Malaysia%29

  149. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    19 May, 2014 - 4:31 pm

    Jemand

    “If Australia is so institutionally or “casually” racist, why do hordes of non-white migrants flee their Utopian homelands to settle in the hostile environment of a racist state?”
    ______________

    Two explanations come to mind:

    1/. thy are not fully aware
    2/. things are even worse in the countries they are fleeing from
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “In relation to what governments do in terms making good on past wrongs and combating the alleged racism which remains at the personal level, this is demonstrably not the forum for polite, educated discourse on such matters. If you think it is, or can be, please lead the way.”
    __________________

    That is correct – this blog is mainly for venting and despite protestations to the contrary, there is little educated discourse here. It was implicit in my comment that it would be welcome if people like Herbie were to come up with constructive suggestions or ideas once in a while.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “At a personal level, the government cannot prescribe social relations with any positive effect. It takes people who live in troubled communities, not bureaucrats, to mend those fences. Look at your Northern Ireland and tell me what the government can do other than NOT engage in warfare.”
    ________________

    I think there is a rôle for govt to set a positive framework which will, over time, make it easier for individuals to mend fences. And, by the way, I’m willing to believe that recent Australian govts have been trying to do that.

  150. Habbabkuk, I mostly agree. Governments can only lay the groundwork, the rest is up to us.

    But let me set you straight on the migration thingo. Refugees are a relatively small part of our immigration intake so misunderstandings might generally apply in their cases, but not so much in the cases of regular migrants.

    People who apply to migrate here must go through a fairly long process during which time they are able to acquaint themselves of particulars that might be of concern to them. Be in no doubt that, with all the bad publicity that Australia has received in the international press, especially in India, these migrants are literate enough and sufficiently well informed of contemporary events to make sound migration decisions. And so they come and they come.

    There are also many ethnic community organisations with whom they can consult and relatives who already reside here. It is therefore not a convincing argument, I am sure you will now agree, that regular migrants are naively migrating to a racially hostile country and have no means of returning to their respective homelands if their experiences prove their decision to be wrong. And yet they come and they stay and they come and they stay.

    It might surprise you to learn that Australia is already overpopulated. That’s right, despite our enormous land mass and rich resources, we’ve got too many people. Water resources are our weakest link and biodiversity very sensitive to human invasion. The political cost of using our coal reserves to produce desalinated water is too high. We could use solar, but you can’t sell the Sun to Aussies any more than you can sell ice to Eskimos. It’s a weird situation to be in.

    So don’t be surprised to read of the doors down under being closed in the next 20 years. But before that closure, you will witness some terrible paroxysms of unrest as the political establishment reluctantly comes to terms with their failure to make provision for the inevitable confrontation with the population problem.

  151. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    19 May, 2014 - 6:44 pm

    Jemand

    Thx for that. I was actually thinking about the Aboriginals (I don’t know if that’s the correct word to use?) rather than refugees/economic migrants when I commented, because I thought it was mainly that which was being discussed between you and Herbie. I only referred to immigrants in my last comment in order to respond to a comment of yours. Relations between the original peoples and the European arrivals and racism in that connection, not immigrants. Sorry for any confusion.

  152. doug scorgie

    19 May, 2014 - 8:19 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    19 May, 2014 – 3:17 pm

    “…the history of the entire world is characterised by continual displacements (or exterminations) of indigenous peoples.”

    “What counts today, surely, is what govts do in terms both of making good (to the extent possible) past wrongs and combatting the racism which remains at the personal level.”

    Yes Habbabkuk and we can start with Israel in making good past wrongs.

  153. Sofia Kibo Noh

    19 May, 2014 - 9:29 pm

    Jemand.

    Remember how this spat began…

    Jemand. 4 05pm

    “An elegantly designed Union Jack based on a chocolate brown, not blue, background with nothing in the foreground. Brown symbolises the richness of its soil, the colour of its people, the substance of its national discourse and a clear vision of its future.”
    Over the following few hours several people understood what you were saying and challenged it for obvious reasons. Your consistant response was personal invective and avoidance of questions.

    I just stopped by and found this.

    Jemand. 9 42am

    ”Sofia, it appears to be you and Mary who are obsessed with the colour brown and the incontrovertible innocence of people of that hue. Your many, many, many combined comments are testimony to this observation.

    I am going to ask you some pointed questions in this reply and I expect that if you want to defend your intellectual honesty and moral integrity, then you will address them accurately, in good faith and without quibbling.”
    I don’t want to spend the whole evening answering the inquisition that follows but I’ll do my best to cover your main concerns.

    Re your denunciation of Mary for “… using the word “Jew” and various euphemisms on this blog many hundreds if not thousands of times.”

    I think if you check up on what she has written over the years you’ll find she has been pretty consistent in pointing out the brutality and illegality of the behaviour of a rogue state that for 65 years has stolen the land and blighted the lives of Palestinian people in the name of a Jewish people. That you have a problem with this an inability to distinguish between opposition to brutality and anti-semitism.

    “…how is it that you believe that some brown coloured person owns the riches beneath the soil of Oz, and I do not? were not born equal after all. Rather, he is the rightful landowner and I am …blah…blah …Please explain how that works WITHOUT being RACIST?”

    WTF?
    First Australians: 42,000 years inhabitation. No concept of “private property” and an undamaged landscape.

    European Conquerors: 200years occupation, widespread severe environmental destruction, genocide, “Neighbours”, etc, etc

    ”And where does the “right” to own anything come from?”
    Nowhere. It’s a pathological intellectual construct when applied to any landscape.
    “La propriété, c’est le vol.” Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
    You can inhabit it, live from it, make it, etc, you can organise how it gets distributed with your peers. You can have the expectation that no other fecker comes along and takes it from you. Let’s modernise our attitudes to the global commons and refine our attitudes to keep personal items secure. It gets easier now encrypted cyber currency is here to stay.

    “You have made a bold claim that I “clearly feel [my] pale skin gives [me] the right to occupy and exploit the land of others …blah…blah…What land do YOU think I have a “right” to “occupy” and “exploit”?”
    None, nether you or me. Occupation and exploitation are key words here. Try “inhabit” or “co-exist on” and we can have a proper discussion.

    “Sofia, you claimed that my “brothers” did bad things. Do you know my “brothers”? Or is that another racist euphemism for like-coloured people with whom I have no association whatsoever?”
    Come on Jemand. I don’t believe you are that thick. You know full well the obvious rhetorical sense in which I used the term.

    “And tell me more, Sofia, what do you mean by “Whether your descendants leave any long-term genetic presence ..”?
    I mean at present rates of destruction Australian settler culture is likely leave as much genetic trace on that continent as Norse settler culture left on Greenland. They tried to wipe out the Inuit rather than trade goods and ideas with them. Look where that got them.

    “So in the spirit of fair and open discourse are you prepared to identify your ethnicity?”
    No problem. May parents were white caucasian. I was lucky that they came from nations whose rulere had, over hundreds of years, persuaded their citizens to regard each other as enemies, so I got over the bullshit pretty early.

    Now Jemand, I know I’m in danger here of denting my reputation for sweetness
    but let me politely request that you to take your brown flag, pole and all, and place it firmly where the sun don’t shine.

  154. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    19 May, 2014 - 11:56 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    ““What counts today, surely, is what govts do in terms both of making good (to the extent possible) past wrongs and combatting the racism which remains at the personal level.”

    Yes Habbabkuk and we can start with Israel in making good past wrongs.”
    ______________________

    I was rather expecting you to come up with that comment, Doug (I wonder why :) However, my comment was erga omnes.

    “start with Israel” – are you establishing a ranking there, Doug? It sounds as if you think that the wrongs committed against Palestinians rank higher in order of importance than those committed against, say, American Indians, Canadian First Nations or Australian Aboriginals? If that’s the case, why do you think so?

  155. Jemand wondered why so many people were still coming to Australia if the place was so racist.

    What recent immigrants seem to be saying is that they like the place, but they don’t like the locals.

    They’re a bit racist, you see.

    What goes around, comes around, and then around again:

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/racism-on-the-rise-in-australia-migrants-report-cultural-shift-20140405-365a5.html

    Break the cycle!!

    Anyway, Coetzee’s novel “Disgrace” deals with these larger transitions and cycles as they impact personal relationships.

    The “Australian” film version is excellent too:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0445953/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_%28film%29

  156. Rachel Corrie’s parents are amazing people. RIP Rachel. You were inspirational.

    Rachel Corrie death: Activist’s family launch final bid to secure ‘justice’ from Israel over 2003 bulldozer death

    ‘The state is so aggressive in demonising us for pursuing this’
    19 May 2014

    The parents of Rachel Corrie, the 23-year-old American activist who was crushed to death by an Israeli military bulldozer in Gaza, are preparing to launch the final chapter in their 11-year battle for accountability into their daughter’s death.

    But they are concerned the legal move is a course that Rachel would not have embraced.

    “She’d appreciate us moving forward, but she would have been concerned about the toll on our family,” says her father Craig Corrie. Legal battling is “the most emotionally difficult part of what we do,” adds his wife, Cindy Corrie.

    /..
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/rachel-corrie-death-activists-family-make-appeal-to-israeli-supreme-court-over-2003-bulldozer-death-9399620.html

  157. This is just one example of the flaw in the Zionist mindset.

    Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu’s son Yair under scrutiny for non-Jewish girlfriend Sandra Leikanger
    19 May 2014
    The couple, who met last year, are accused of being a “stain” on the Israeli Prime Minister

    ~~
    No you cannot have a pairing of two young people based on actual love. Zionist Israel is a racist state.

  158. Sofia, thank you for clarifying your roots, however you have quibbled and evaded your way through the tough questions that precede it.

    Incidentally, my brown flag suggestion was intended to be facetious but it is interesting that you took one symbolism and focussed on it to the exclusion of the several that I presented. And I made no judgements about the new colour of your people, I merely observed it and watched the accusations come flying. Remember, inferences are not the same as implications. You inferred as if I implied – wrong.

    You, yourself, introduced the words “occupy” and “exploit” as if that were the mentality of the millions of Australians who were born in this land. And then you contrast it with notions of “inhabit” and “coexist” as if these ideas were alien to us. Can you see how ridiculous and offensive your argument now sounds?

    You stated that Oz indigenous people have inhabited this continent for 40,000 odd years. I am well aware of this fact and most appreciative of what it means – but not in the sense that you do. This implies that people inherit rights from their ancestors (like the royal family, you could say) and that indigenous people have a greater right than descendants of later arrivals. By that logic, I should have greater rights than recent migrants. Will that work?

    You also made the claims “First Australians: 42,000 years inhabitation. No concept of “private property” and an undamaged landscape.”

    That reads like a line out of Wikipedia (superlative source of information that it is, Amen). And it is meaningless for its lack of relevance and veracity. While the Aborigines have occupied this continent for millenia, my people have occupied this planet for over a million years. Do I now have a greater right?

    We could play this game of ‘who first occupied this or that land’ for hours with no conclusion. The fact is, a man will only live for several decades and he will take all of his “rights” to the grave with his soul. To selectively advocate for perpetual rights is to lay the foundations of future problems – remember Israel and the Jewish “right” to reoccupy their land? Your ideas aren’t working too well in that part of the world but you wish to apply them to another country in which you have no right or interest. ? .. ? .. ?

    Regarding “undamaged landscape[s]“, it is a fiction. Everywhere that man has gone, he has brought fire and an appetite for easy kill. These two factors alone radically reshape our landscapes. To say otherwise is political bullshit, not scientific fact. Aborigines of all lands have radically altered their respective landscapes over the course of hundreds of thousands of years and driven myriad animal and plant species into extinction. Australian Aboriginals are no different and all that you see in those pretty landscape pics is the end result of 40,000 years of burn and kill. Imagine what this land might have looked like BEFORE the arrival of man. So you might want to cut the ‘pristine environment’ bullshit out of your speech to avoid any further embarrassment.

    Sofia, you have also poignantly avoided the question of my rights. While you have rhetorically advocated on behalf of all the brown people of the world with a contradictory protestation that skin-colour is not relevant, you have explicitly marginalised me as a malignant entity that has no rights entirely on the basis of my skin colour.

    Let me ask you a difficult question that I expect you will be unable to answer without resort to hyper-generalised rhetoric. Where do I belong in your scheme of Justice?

  159. Habbabkuk, we could say that relations between Oz indigenous people and the European arrivals started off with misunderstandings and an inability to communicate. The outcome was all very predictable, in hindsight.

    Imagine what an ignorant, embittered convict settler might have felt when his sheep were being taken by Aborigines. In the mind of the native, he sees a free roaming animal that is easily killed and tastes damn good. The idea that someone “owns” this animal is too silly to even contemplate. Nobody owns animals, they own themselves.. until we eat them. In the mind of the settler, he sees the product of his labours and therefore his livelihood being stolen. They don’t speak the same language so something bad must happen.

    From there, you have an escalation of bad relations for a couple of hundred years and today we have the challenge of untangling this original misunderstanding and burying the badwill of personal experiences.

    The government and individuals are doing something about it. Mistakes have been made, crimes committed and progress is slow.

    But predictably, there are actors with interests and conflicting agendas who compete for opportunities and play the ugly game of politics. This is what makes the progress so slow.

    Then we have the usual know-it-all outsiders who make things even worse. They make cursory judgements of complex arrangements and interject their version of the conflict to further inflame feelings and obfuscate potential solutions.

    And on top of this we have a new cultural concept pervading the Western world where people are no longer personally responsible for their own actions because everything is deterministic therefore prior injustices are blamed for contemporary misdeeds. I suspect this might have come from watching too many American TV shows about law and order.

    So, today we could say that the problem is about misunderstandings and an inability to communicate, but I think the truth is much simpler — people are just arseholes.

  160. Sofia Kibo Noh

    20 May, 2014 - 8:47 am

    Jemand 7 15am

    “Where do I belong in your scheme of Justice?”

    I’ll happily share a space in here with you,

    https://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

    alongside the rest of us whatever the hue.

    I’ll say this of you too. The southern sun has given you stamina. Fair dinkum!

  161. Ba'al Zevul (à bas Pangloss)

    20 May, 2014 - 10:01 am

    I really ought to stay out of this as I know bugger-all about it. But it doesn’t seem to have stopped anyone else…

    One point. When Oz was looking for new Australians, back in the late 60′s, I remember seeing a short film about an Italian new immigrant, outlining the culture-shock aspect of moving there. I think it was an Australian government production. The take-home message was ‘when in Oz do as the Aussies do.’ Which seemed and seems eminently sensible, and not racist at all. When you’re buying into a new country, you’re buying into the accepted way of life. If you liked the old country’s way better, bloody stay there….

    Cue howls of outrage. But I think this philosophy still applies, and is wrongly interpreted by outsiders as institutional racism. Jemand?

  162. Thanks, BZ

    The movie you are referring to is, I believe, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They%27re_a_Weird_Mob

    I usually won’t watch Australian movies because they are mostly cringeworthy attempts at winning the affection of foreign audiences and the acting is typically dreadful. Hearing an Australian turn up the Strine is, by itself, enough for me to turn it off.

    And the above movie, if I recall correctly, had all of those silly ocker stereotypes which are more correctly portrayed in the excellent film below that gives a very accurate depiction of life outside of the cities. The Aboriginal experience is really with these kinds of people – a minority overall but common in the bush.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_in_Fright

  163. More criminality by Israel:

    Israeli forces have cut and uprooted a large number of trees belonging to Palestinians in an attack on a village near the West Bank city of Bethlehem.

    According to local media reports, Israeli bulldozers on Monday leveled large tracts of Palestinian land in the village of Nahalin, uprooting olive and almond trees.

    On April 28, Israeli settlers uprooted more than 150 olive trees in the village of Huwwara, south of the West Bank city of Nablus. In a similar move a day earlier, the Israeli settlers destroyed over 60 trees.

    In January, Tadamun Foundation for Human Rights, a non-governmental organization, said in an annual report that an estimated 8,000 trees, some of them hundreds of years old, were damaged and destroyed altogether by the Israelis.

    “Settlers’ attacks include uprooting, burning and cutting down olive trees… Olive groves were also flooded by wastewater from the settlements,” said the rights group.

    “We have been unable to count the hundreds of trees damaged in groves close to settlements due to Israeli security measures.”

  164. Sofia,

    A reasonable reply from you – somewhat short of what I hoped for but better than I expected. There are some inconsistencies between the document you link to and the narrative on this page, but that will have to slide.

    If anyone is really concerned about human rights, they should look at the population problem and the relationship between diminishing resources and social unrest. It is a problem that most people simply refuse to discuss, or have a set opinion based on the propaganda of vested interests, especially business and government.

  165. LOL

    A top aide to the Turkish PM, Ysuf Yerkel, has been given a week’s sick leave for “leg trauma” he sustained after kicking a protester following Turkey’s worst mining disaster in history.

  166. Ba'al Zevul (à bas Pangloss)

    20 May, 2014 - 12:47 pm

    Thanks, J.
    No, I don’t think it was that one, but it was a long time ago I saw it. I do remember there was a memorable scene illustrating the six-o-clock swill, set in a bar with tiled walls for easier hosing down, and the beer also dispensed by hoses (like petrol), so it can’t have been made much after 1966, I think.

    I’m not getting into the aboriginal thing. Much may be said for both sides, and it has been.

    I just think that ‘when in x, do as the xians do’ is a sound principle, and one which is unjustly maligned. And that was definitely the message of your government at the time, explicitly and specifically with respect to urban immigration.

    It occurs to me that to some extent, denying the concept of national identity plays into the hands of the globalist entrepreneurs, who aren’t too bothered about the cultural preferences of their rentaproles on zero-hours contracts, as long as they’re cheap. I ask myself how much of the demonisation of national identity, and its conflation with racism, comes from corporate sources…a partial clue being visible in Vote No Borders, of course.

  167. “It occurs to me that to some extent, denying the concept of national identity plays into the hands of the globalist entrepreneurs”

    That’s currently the case, yes, but previously they encouraged national identity. Insisted upon it.

    “I ask myself how much of the demonisation of national identity, and its conflation with racism, comes from corporate sources”

    All of it.

    It’s a rewriting of the script.

    Best advice I can give is, try to live your whole life in the one play.

    Nic Roeg’s “Walkabout” is relevant here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkabout_%28film%29

  168. Ba'al Zevul (à bas Pangloss)

    20 May, 2014 - 3:38 pm

    Herbie – Not all of it. A lot of it comes from perfectly well-meaning individuals who buy the spin, without necessarily buying the back story. I am trying to avoid the easy generalisations here. The script is continuously rewritten, and has been since the dawn of human existence. What is troubling is that human greed has increased continuously too, and there is neither any escape from globalisation nor the means democratically to amend it.

    I’m not sure what your advice is intended to mean, and/or how the film reference relates to it. But I am not acting in a play. I am here, now.

  169. Ba’al

    The film is about people finding themselves worryingly off-script, but thriving in human fellowship.

    “I am not acting in a play. I am here, now.”

    And that’s very likely the answer.

  170. Is it safe to come out? Has he finished?

    ~~~

    Courtenay Barnett. If you are reading this and if you are able to access the BBC iPlayer, I recommend an episode of ‘Costing the Earth’ which I heard this afternoon. It was concerned with the destruction of the environment by the Turks and Caicos government whilst the FCO here look on. The plans for development include a large new port and a dolphinarium. Most of us accept that to keep mammals captive for the entertainment of humans is a cruel concept. We heard that the last captive dolphins in this country were taken to your waters for release.

    ‘Britain’s Overseas Wildlife
    Duration: 30 minutes
    First broadcast:Tuesday 20 May 2014

    Britain’s Overseas Territories from the Caribbean to the Falkland Islands contain a treasure trove of wildlife. A new report from the RSPB reveals that 94% of unique UK species live beyond our shores. But many of those astonishing creatures are at great threat from tourist development and invasive species.

    To discover whether we are doing enough to protect our secret garden of species Tom Heap visits the Turks and Caicos Islands, 150 miles to the east of Cuba.’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b043x48q

    The FCO minister interviewed is Mark Simmonds, the subject of my previous posts, the last being http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/the-privatised-nhs/#comment-457008

    All the best.

    Ref. http://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/headline-Turks-and-Caicos-government-promotes-ambitious-development-projects-16290.html

  171. Sofia Kibo Noh

    20 May, 2014 - 6:17 pm

    Ba’al. 12 47pm

    Thanks for your angle on this.

    “I just think that ‘when in x, do as the xians do’ is a sound principle, and one which is unjustly maligned…”
    Exactly. Except that conquest and genocide, followed by settler culture, overlays what is done in a place with what is done in another place… the one which happens to have the guns and germs and the technology to strip the landscape of its natural wealth.

    If Europeans had arrived in Australia or the Americas with the attitude you mention then, after our germs had done their stuff, there could have unfolded an era of trade and cultural cross-fertilisation. Now how rich could that have been?

    “…denying the concept of national identity plays into the hands of the globalist entrepreneurs, who aren’t too bothered about the cultural preferences of their rentaproles…”
    Yes, apart from the inevitable small percentage of psychopaths don’t most servants of empire simply regard “the natives” as quaint and primitive and, if they are in the way, simply an irritant, certainly not a group that have anything of value apart from the minerals or topsoil under their feet?

    Herbie. 2 05pm

    Thanks for the reminder of the movie, “Walkabout”. One of those rare films which leaves images that linger and provoke questions. Must watch again.

  172. Sofia Kibo Noh

    20 May, 2014 - 6:21 pm

    Oops!

    Last post well colonised by italics, save for a small population of indiginous text at the bottom!

    Mod. Edit Button? For hasty posters like me. Go on.

  173. In the same vein as Walkabout, Rabbit Proof Fence, based on a true story. Very sad.

    ‘Rabbit-Proof Fence is a 2002 Australian drama film directed by Phillip Noyce based on the book Follow the Rabbit-Proof Fence by Doris Pilkington Garimara. It is based on a true story concerning the author’s mother, as well as two other mixed-race Aboriginal girls, who ran away from the Moore River Native Settlement, north of Perth, Western Australia, to return to their Aboriginal families, after having been placed there in 1931. The film follows the Aboriginal girls as they walk for nine weeks along 1,500 miles (2,400 km) of the Australian rabbit-proof fence to return to their community at Jigalong, while being pursued by a white authority figure and an Aboriginal tracker.

    The soundtrack to the film, called Long Walk Home: Music from the Rabbit-Proof Fence, is by Peter Gabriel. British producer Jeremy Thomas, who has a long connection with Australia, was executive producer of the film, selling it internationally through his sales arm, HanWay Films.’
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit-Proof_Fence_(film)

    The funniest satirical Ozzie film I have seen was ‘Welcome to Woop Woop’ which I saw at a film festival. I should think it went down like a lead balloon with the Australian white audience.
    http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9402E0DA1431F930A25752C1A96E958260

  174. And so we have Mary, the all-knowing outsider who has never visited Oz to see things as they really are, good and bad as it has always been, sifting through material and selectively posting politically fixed views of open sores and not those of people working together. If that does not convince others of her mischievous ways, nothing else will.

  175. BZ, i can’t think of any other film that corresponds with your description. Are you sure you’re not confusing it with The Godfather?

    Re migration of people, I’m happy for Oz to facilitate hybrid cultures that progress our civilisation. It helps, tho’, if migrants participate in the Australian way first before introducing us to their ways. But, as everyone here already knows, i am not happy with the open invitation to 1500 year old fucked-up notions of society. But i am, after all, merely a squeak in a minority of people who give a shit.

    Hey! I’m a minority!!! Where’s my cheque?

  176. I am allowed to say which films I have seen and which I can recommend.

    Would you like a complete list? None are American from the propaganda machine. Most are Continental from France, Spain and Portugal and one from Palestine. One does not have to have visited the country from which a film comes to be able to like it. That sounds very insular!

  177. Have you seen the movie ‘Confirmation Bias’, Mary?

  178. I would be obliged if you would desist from the ad hominems and attempts to blacken my name.

  179. Ba'al Zevul (Bokonon Rastafari)

    21 May, 2014 - 8:17 am

    Ba’al

    The film is about people finding themselves worryingly off-script, but thriving in human fellowship.

    “I am not acting in a play. I am here, now.”

    And that’s very likely the answer.

    No, still not with you. What was the question? Human fellowship and I are pretty distant acquaintances, btw. If you want to push the ‘script’ allegory, here’s mine:

    http://fuckyeahkurtvonnegut.tumblr.com/post/109175201/we-do-doodley-do-doodley-do-doodely-do-what

    Thanks, Kurt.

  180. Ba'al Zevul (Bokonon Rastafari)

    21 May, 2014 - 8:30 am

    If Europeans had arrived in Australia or the Americas with the attitude you mention then, after our germs had done their stuff, there could have unfolded an era of trade and cultural cross-fertilisation. Now how rich could that have been?

    Well, yes. If the Vendian glaciation had not occurred, the explosive Cambrian diversification would not have happened, and we wouldn’t be here at all…also arguably a Good Thing. I offer WIRDATRD only as a logical policy for advanced governments with immigration/integration issues to deal with. The Romans themselves did not extend the principle outside Rome, it’s worth noting. Whether in Britain, Syria, Dacia or Asia Minor, the Romans invariably did as the Romans do. Which wasn’t always bad for the inhabitants, either.

  181. Ba’al

    Well. At one time the British pushed a racist nationalist script but now they push a globalist anti-racist script.

    If you were inhabiting the nationalist script then it might be difficult to transition to the new globalist script, and we have plenty of evidence of that.

    Your own claim to function outside such scripting would suggest you’re conditioned by neither, and therefore you’re unlikely to suffer this problem.

  182. Jemand

    “It helps, tho’, if migrants participate in the Australian way first before introducing us to their ways.”

    Dunno why you demand that. You didn’t.

    Like your demand that they don’t nick your stuff, when you’d nicked theirs.

    It’s rank hypocrisy.

  183. Ba'al Zevul (Bokonon Rastafari)

    21 May, 2014 - 9:19 am

    At one time the British pushed a racist nationalist script but now they push a globalist anti-racist script.

    I did get that much of what you were saying. The main difference as far as I can see is that the former treats foreigners (weak foreigners, that is) as shit, while the latter treats everybody as shit. Fewr people got treated as shit under the former system, in fact…

    heh.

  184. Well put BZ, @8.30a
    - -

    Mary, stop pretending you speak Latin and kindly oblige me by disengaging in anti-Australian propaganda. You’re kids must have grown up terribly depressed having such a negative mother.

  185. Herbie, you’ve already demonstrated your hostility to good reason and polite conversation so why don’t you just relax and help yourself to a nice warm cup of stfu?

  186. Now there’s a weird typo. It’s usually the other way around. Your!

  187. “Fewer people got treated as shit under the former system, in fact…”

    Not really. They were merely distracted from the shitiness of their treatment by feeling superior to others.

    It’s all functional. At one time they needed a racist mentality to encourage subjugation of others.

    Now they need to encourage tender feelings towards others so that they can push down the cost of labour through immigration.

    The old reverse ferret trick.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHi16zEsSFI

  188. Ba'al Zevul (Bokonon Rastafari)

    21 May, 2014 - 10:12 am

    Oh ffs, Herbie. The whole mindset was different then. Racism wasn’t even a concept. Differently coloured people who couldn’t speak English (or German, French, Russian, insert wannabe colonial power here) were inferior, and part of the White Man’s Burden. End of.

    Re what Jemand is saying, and I really don’t know enough about the indigenous people of Australia to offer an informed opinion on their state, but more universally, if someone nicks your car, are you really going to forget it because your grandpa fenced off part of the thief’s grandpa’s tribal stamping ground? Are you buggery. You’re going to report it to the police. Be practical.

    Bearing in mind perhaps that your grandpa really didn’t want to be there in the first place but had been transported for snaring a rabbit?

    Hypocrisy applies to the same person saying one thing and doing another. Not someone saying the opposite of what his distant ancestor said.

  189. Still aiming the little darts from the Kiddie’s dart set but missing the dartboard completely I see.

    Especially for the Wild Colonial Boy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3QJPxiLOPo

    PS I did speak Latin at one stage in my life.

  190. You’re talking about an economic system which employed racism. It’d be more accurate to say that they didn’t care about racism than that the concept didn’t exist. It certainly did.

    The thing about Jemand is that he enjoys pointing out that these brown fellas just nick peoples stuff. That’s what they are. That’s what they do.

    In such circumstances it’s reasonable to point out that his antecedents did exactly the same thing.

    I fully understand that people will wish to report current offences, irrespective of historical causation, but it does no harm to provide some context.

  191. Ba'al Zevul (Bokonon Rastafari)

    21 May, 2014 - 11:02 am

    You’re talking about an economic system which employed racism. It’d be more accurate to say that they didn’t care about racism than that the concept didn’t exist. It certainly did.

    And I disagree. Until early in the last century, perhaps slightly earlier in intellectual circles, but not in the general perception, we were still rocking to the notion that it was up to us to civilise Johnny Dark Foreigner and bring him up to our standard. (Looking at Boko Haram, I’m not sure we were altogether wrong.) The assumption that he was inherently inferior was not disputed. Looking back from here, that’s racism. At the time, no-one thought twice about it. That was the, er, script. The word didn’t appear.

  192. PPS My stepchildren are very well adjusted thanks and are leading useful and fulfilling lives. No depression here.

    Did you bring yours(if any) up to be racist like yourself?

  193. You’re switching between the word racism and the concept.

    The word itself isn’t that important.

    The concept has existed for quite some time. You’ll see it in the Talmud, and in Aristotle.

    Anyway, the leaders of the economic project we know as colonial plunder, will not have thought to themselves, “let’s go off and civilise these natives”. They’ll certainly have explained it that way to their people and armies and so on, much as they now tell us they have a responsibility to protect poor foreign peeps from evil dictators.

    They knew what they were doing even if ordinary people were inhabiting a false script.

    You mention Boko Haram as an example of something beneath our standards, yet Boko Haram are working to western direction.

  194. Ba'al Zevul (Bokonon Rastafari)

    21 May, 2014 - 12:02 pm

    I still disagree.

  195. Yeah, I’m bored of it too

  196. Sofia Kibo Noh

    21 May, 2014 - 1:41 pm

  197. “You mention Boko Haram as an example of something beneath our standards, yet Boko Haram are working to western direction.”

    Yes of course they are dear – have you forgotten to take your medication again?

  198. So car theft is actually caused and consequently justified by historical land theft… Oh, that makes perfect sense now. I’ll pass that news on to my mother who will be happy that her $2000 in cash went to a good cause motivated by a perfectly fair desire to put right past wrongs.

    (stoopid kunt)

  199. Yes Mary, my half Asian daughter is racist. You’re a dickhead like your mates here. How does one say GFYS in Latin?

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