Two-Faced Flags

by craig on July 24, 2014 12:13 pm in Uncategorized

In my 55 years of life, I had never until yesterday seen a flag which was a saltire on one side and a union jack on the other. Yet last night thousands of them were distributed free at the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony. I have been told they are being given out at the swimming today, and possibly at other venues too.

Such flags do not normally exist. They had to be specially commissioned, and somebody had to pay for them. Who paid for them? Is it public money?

There is no doubt why these unique flags were commissioned, and why they are being given out free at considerable expense. It is to provide TV images of Scotland combined in the union, and to make sure that Scottish medals are greeted with media images of union jacks being waved with the saltire.

In the context of the referendum, only a hardened liar could claim that these unique flags were commissioned without a view to the campaign. This is enormous hypocrisy by the unionists, who have been bombarding the media for weeks with warnings to Yes supporters not to “politicise” the Commonwealth Games.

The BBC informs us that “political flags” are not allowed inside games venues. So saltires with a Yes will be confiscated. The BBC report states:

Well hold on, some flags will not be allowed to fly. Political flags.

Both sides of the independence debate have agreed not to use Glasgow 2014 for political gain anyway.

But even if you wanted to, well, it’s against the rules.

Glasgow 2014 Venue Regulation 6.18 states that no flags are allowed to enter a venue – or the vicinity of any Games venue – if they are normally associated with causes, affiliations or organisations.

Nobody can possibly argue that, at this time, a Union Jack combined with a Saltire is not an image strongly associated with a cause or association. So the rules are being quite deliberately broken, and somebody is funding that breach and doing it on a massive scale. It is vital that we know: who is paying for these flags?

Actually I am not sure why union jacks are allowed in at all. The rules are very clear. If you try to take in a Palestinian flag or a Dutch flag it will be confiscated. Again, to quote the BBC:

You are not allowed, however, to bring the flag of a country not competing in the Games

The United Kingdom is not competing in the Games. So there is a very respectable argument that union jacks should not be allowed in at all.

What is absolutely certain is that the two-faced union jack and saltire flags are very strongly associated with a political cause or affiliation. If they are allowed in, then Yes saltires should be allowed in too.

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158 Comments

  1. Indeed, two faced says it all. Unionists, shake hand, while knee in the balls at the same time. Liars who will change their tune if it is a no vote, god forbid. It’s classic, like those films where the criminals befriend someone down on their luck, then turn very very nasty if they won’t do as they say. Brrrrrrr.

  2. The Union Jack represents the state, comprising the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland [the Isle of Man is not part of the UK] Its component parts have their own flags, England, Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland. Because the UK of GB and NI are not competing in the games that composite flag nor the Union Jack alone should be allowed in. The banning of which, could of course prove to be more trouble than it would be worth.

  3. I think I’ve found the ideal flag to represent a rabidly pro-EU Scots nat living in Kent:

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?redir_esc=&client=ms-android-samsung&hl=en-GB&safe=images&oe=utf-8&q=cook.islands%20flag&source=android-browser-type&qsubts=1406202765364#hl=en-GB&q=cook+islands+flag

    It’s got it all in there, as well as its relevance on the world stage.

  4. Daily Record newspaper has previous form in sponsoring union flags being handed out to children and adults for mass events in Scotland (let’s face it, it wouldn’t be anybody else).

  5. So are they giving out flags that have the Union Jack on one side and the England flag on the other or is it just purely saltire versions that have been made?

  6. I’m currently in the triathlon venue with two yes saltires. If anyone tries to take them they’ll be getting told where to go :)

  7. Anon @ 1.04pm Interesting choice, because the Cook Islands have been allowed to join the ICC on the claim that under the all states formula the Cook Islands joined the WHO Agency and as a result could claim to be a state under the UN rules.However Palestine which joined UNESCO Agency somehow was, unlike the Cook Islands not automatically recognized as a state by the Prosecutor at the ICC.
    ” The question of whether the Cook Islands was an “independent” entity,
i.e. a State, was also raised. For a period of time it was considered that, in view of the fact that the Cook islands, though self-governing, had entered into a special relationship with New Zealand, which discharged the responsibility for the external affairs and defence of the Cook Islands, it followed that the status of the Cook Islands was not one of sovereign independence in the juridical sense. Moreover, the General Assembly, in its resolution 2064 (XX) of 16 December 1965 on the question of the Cook Islands, had reaffirmed the responsibility of the United Nations “to assist the people of the Cook Islands in the eventual achievement of full independence, if they so wish, at a future date”. That resolution, which was adopted in view of a change in the status of the Cook Islands, further indicated that the latter had not yet attained full independence within the meaning of the term in United Nations usage. It followed that, unless specifically invited to participate in a treaty, the Cook Islands could not invoke the “all States” clause.86. However, in 1984, an application by the Cook Islands for membership in the World Health Organization was approved by the World Health Assembly in accordance with its article 6, and the Cook Islands, in accordance with
 article 79, became a member upon deposit of an instrument of acceptance with the Secretary-General”…http://humanrightsdoctorate.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/relevant-depositary-practice-of.html

  8. So you can wave a Scots flag, wave an England flag, wave a Union Jack, or wave any combination. You can’t wave a flag with Yes or No written on it. What’s the problem with that?

    Does Craig think Scots are so thick they will vote No after seeing a Saltire with a Union Jack on the back?

  9. Easy, take along a wee stapler – or a couple of kirby grips, dod of chewing gum or blue tack (you get the idea). Stick the two union jacks face to face.
    Job done!

  10. Davie

    Good man! Let us know…

    Jim

    Brilliant!

  11. A lot of fuss about nothing that matters – anyone with a grain of sense can distinguish the sport from the politics despite the best efforts of Cameron, Salmond, Putin and now Craig to mix them up.

  12. Jim,

    The trouble is that without the Union Jack on the back to act as a guide, most people around the world would not know what the Saltire is or who it represents.

  13. Anon,

    You don’t travel much, do you?

    Regular commenters often fail to realise that they are a tiny percentage of visitors to this blog. For example, over 6,100 people have read this particular article already. And your anti-Scottish bigotry wins a few votes for Yes every time.

    ESLO

    I think you underestimate the power of imagery in state propaganda. If it had no effect, why did they spend all that money and effort to do it? And are you not interested to know who paid for it?

  14. A good guess that the perpetrators of these unique pro-union flags are the Daily Record.

    My money would be on Glasgow’s Labour Council-their leader Mathieson was clearly enraged that Salmond was allowed to speak at the Opening Ceremony so much so that he ended up shouting into the microphone :-)

  15. Craig @ 1.53. “I think you underestimate the power of imagery in state propaganda”. Because a picture is worth a thousand words.By the way some of these supposedly simple mathematical questions posed to defeat span are getting harder and harder for me.Does anyone else think so?

  16. Moreida Lord

    24 Jul, 2014 - 2:10 pm

    My sentiments exactly Craig!

  17. The British State is at risk of losing 9% of its population, over 10% of its tax receipts, its nuclear deterrent & the bullshit prestige it thinks it needs to puff on the world stage before bombing brown people in countries it advises our tourists to avoid.

    They will say & do anything then to cling on to the wealth & symbolism that Scotland provides Westminster.

    That includes lying, cheating & the subversive use of widespread propaganda, aided & abetted by a compliant unionist broadcast & print media.

    Every single one of us is being targeted by the British State then to maintain the status quo.

    If you can’t see that, wean yourself off the psychotropic drugs for a few weeks.

  18. Loving all the Nat outrage :)

    “when the BBC asked the organisers of Glasgow 2014 if spectators could wave a standard Union Flag, they said they could. Although they added that the flag size policy would be applied.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28421323

  19. If it had no effect, why did they spend all that money and effort to do it?

    Because they are not like the rest of the human race!

  20. Does it matter?

  21. Did Manchester hand out one side St George the other UJ or the cardif games or indeed Edinburgh hand out UJ

    And why did the red arrows who were scheduled to trail blue and white not do as scheduled?
    And Unionists no matter how proud you say you are your no vote validates the UK government legal position that Scotland ceased to exist and was absorbed by England a No vote means you agree perhaps thats why you are so ashamed of your own flag

  22. I agree that the two-sided flag should have been left out of the ceremonies. In fact there should be no need for irregularity. The No campaign should make a strong rational case for the Union. If Scotland decides for independence the rest of the UK will have to live with it. Better to prepare for whatever happens, by endeavouring to be on friendly terms with Scotland right now.

  23. photographs of two people handing out the flags yesterday https://twitter.com/GerryMcG/status/492004981416161280

  24. For example, over 6,100 people have read this particular article already. And your anti-Scottish bigotry wins a few votes for Yes every time.

    You’ve got me all wrong, Craig. Although I have a bet with you that the Scots bottle it and vote No, I still want them to go.

  25. Anon/ESLO – “You’ve got me all wrong, Craig. Although I have a bet with you that the Scots bottle it and vote No, I still want them to go.”

    I still want you to go to israel and leave us Scots alone (in the best haganah tradition), bibi melikowalski is losing quite a few of your kind in Gaza, please just go.

  26. Ivar the Boneless

    24 Jul, 2014 - 3:06 pm

    Methinks Anon is very wrong. Things seem to be moving steadily towards a yes vote.

  27. Ivar the Boneless

    Fancy a hundred quid on that?

  28. Ivar the Boneless

    24 Jul, 2014 - 3:12 pm

    Not a betting man, but what makes you so confident they will vote no?

  29. 100 quid makes me confident, Ivar. Whereas you’re “Not a betting man”.

  30. Ivar the Boneless

    24 Jul, 2014 - 3:27 pm

    If thats the best comeback you have got then you better not bother.

  31. Just Saying

    So much for free speech in an Independent Scotland.

  32. Ivar the Boneless @Methinks Anon is very wrong. Things seem to be moving steadily towards a yes vote.I wager you 10 pounds the vote is no, If I lose can I give you the £10 Clydesdale Bank note I have been trying to pass on to traders all over the Wirral [with no takers yet] they all genuinely think it is “funny money”. Honestly.

  33. People like Anon should read up about Edward Bernays. Jewish (am I allowed to say that? and nephew of Siggy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

    Surprising how powerful visual images are. Why are billions of £s and $s spent on PR and advertising they should ask themselves.

  34. Not surprised in the least at seeing these flags, every possible attempt is being made to play-down, dilute and spoil the absolutely normal bog-standard support that Scots provide to their home athletes. From dual-sided flags to the watered down blue of the Scottish athletes clothing. The 2-sided “butchers saltire” is an utterly bizarre bastardised attempt at this and fit only for arse-wiping (on one side obviously).

    Seems a reasonable bet that the flags are being paid for by some group like NoBorders or other naw-bag supporting outfit. Not going to be near the venues myself, but if anyone can *courteously* ask those who are handing them out *on whose behalf they’re doing so* …would love to know what the response is.

    In the meantime get these Yes saltires, badges and bags out there on full display. No-one should fall for the story that the Naw campaign aren’t going to politicize the event to the max. The Queen, Cameron, the Red Arrows, GSTQ, union-jack’s and we’re not even 24 hours in. Bite back folks !

  35. Ivar the Boneless

    24 Jul, 2014 - 4:06 pm

    Harry Law, funny money eh? Says more about the juvenile English psyche than it does about the Scottish one. VOTE YES 2014!

  36. “People like Anon should read up about Edward Bernays. Jewish (am I allowed to say that?”

    Of course you’re allowed to say that, Mary. Don’t be shy! But you should also tell us why you think it is relevant.

  37. The Ingerlish bastards are watering down our bluuuuuuuuu!!!

    “The Queen, Cameron, the Red Arrows, GSTQ, union-jack’s and we’re not even 24 hours in. Bite back folks !”

    All of that would happen even if there wasn’t a referendum taking place, Paul Martin.

  38. Ivar the Boneless

    24 Jul, 2014 - 4:19 pm

    Only ones i see who are politicising the games are the unionists and their brit sponsors, despite them warning the Yes side and the SNP not too! Hows that for stinking hypocrisy? How desperate they must be, time is running out for them and this so called “union” and they know it. Great thing is most Scots folk can see through this orchestrated unionist bullshit.

  39. Dear “anon”. The only folk seeking to dilute and subvert perfectly natural domestic support for the home nation, are those UK unionists who are in a position of power or influence to do so. Whether they’re English or Scottish is completely irrelevant – they’re just British nationalists (“proud” Brits I’m sure). The 2-sided flag sums that mentality up, its an abomination. I’m one year younger than Craig Murray and in my 54 years of life I’ve never seen such an absurd chimera as that flag.

  40. Seriously, who would want to live in a country where you sad b@stards are the majority?

  41. They’re watering down our bluuuuuuuu!!! We was a prood Scottish navy bluuuuuuu nation before the Ingerlish bastards turned us into a sky bluuuuuuu!!!

  42. Poor oppressed Scots forced into taking the flags, forced to wave them and not recognising the cross of St Andrew on both sides of the flag. As for not politicising the games, the timing of the vote was set for after the games intentionally to reap any winning afterglow. Scolympians and embarrassing Andy Murray have not helped Fat Eck so he was bound to try and step back from another debacle. He is walking scared (he wisely recognises the life span of a Scot in that area of Glasgow is less than Gaza and would not risk running).

  43. Orange Order

  44. Orange Order which means Glasgow Labour council knew . Celtic fans will be furious.

  45. I was born in England to a Scottish mother, I am now a citizen of Australia. I am so disgusted at the way the Pommie parliament is acting. And to make things worse, the Thatcher loving right wing idiot we have as our prime minister is starting to act the same way.
    I quite possibly will apply for a Scottish passport if your referendum is in the affirmative….

  46. You’re quite right on this, Craig. Have British countries ever handed out Union Jacks at the games before?The UK has no identity in the games and therefore distribution of UK symbols is clearly politically motivated. I wonder how people would feel about the govt handing out EU flags at the event.

  47. The author claims to be a Human Rights Activist.

    What sort of human rights activist would even contemplate forbidding people to fly the flag of their nation?

    Only a sad, sad man full of hatred.

    It’s pathetic. Get a life.

  48. I have been reading the comments on a piece in the Guardian about teaching Welsh in all British schools.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/welsh-taught-in-british-schools-scottish-independence-referendum-english-wales-Scotland

    Its a great article because it upends the idea of Britain = England and reminds (introduces) the fact that Welsh is the original British / Brythonic language.

    It is for this reason (Britain is not England) that I feel sad about Scottish / Welsh independence (as if its defeatist to have to be resigned to the hinterlands – as lovely as they are). Having criticised others today on another thread for day dreaming about ending empires it is perhaps a bit rich for me to argue for the return of a greater Brythonic Wales.

    Anyway the Guardian article is a lovely read and what is astonishing is just how much it rattles the Guardian’s English readers (and its in the Guardian not Guido Fawkes). So maybe Craig is right and a Yes vote would really shake things up (but what then?)

  49. Are you sure the saltire just isn’t attached to the UJ with bits of sticky backed plastic?

    ;p

  50. Craig Patrick

    24 Jul, 2014 - 5:51 pm

    The same flags were being distributed by the No Campaign in Perth on Saturday 19th July.So much for rules then.

  51. Commented on this last night (FB) and was told by another committed Yes campaigner that the shockingly pro-union, obviously political flags were being handed out by ‘church groups’ at Celtic Park.
    She was at Celtic park, saw them being handed out, and asked those responsible.
    As the Orange Lodge keeps telling us it’s a ‘church organisation’, I suspect that’s who’s behind it – or a Lodge-sympathising church (and there are plenty of them in Glasgow, unfortunately.

  52. Danny

    People were forced to remove their Yes badges, and saltires with Yes were confiscated. I don’t actually mind people flying Union Jacks at all – they should be allowed to fly anything they like. Including Yes saltires. And Palestinian flags.

    What I object to is one rule for the Yes campaign and a different rule for the Unionists, who are allowed to politicise it as much as they like.
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/exclusive-defence-secretary-intervenes-in-red-arrows-commonwealth-games-row-9625976.html

    I don’t even think your Lodge march should be banned, Danny, don’t worry.

    But that still leaves the question of who paid for all those Unionist campaigning flags.

  53. Concerned in Great Britain

    24 Jul, 2014 - 5:56 pm

    You people are mentally ill.

    God help my children when you crazy people multiply enough to take over with your lunatic ramblings.

  54. The author of that last comment has the email address editor@rangers.co.uk. Can anybody trace the name of the particular stupid religious bigot who uses that email address?

  55. In fact I strongly suspect that editor@rangers.co.uk was connected with the giving out of those flags, and thought it was hilarious to do it at that particular venue. Would you like to tell us?

    Anyway, here are some obviously not crazy friends of yours to make you feel happy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGjiokfQ2A

  56. You say: “The United Kingdom is not competing in the Games. So there is a very respectable argument that union jacks should not be allowed in at all.”

    Well, St Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha use the Union Jack as their flag at these games.

    PS> You also say that e-mail addresses will not be published, but then go on to post someone’s e-mail address. Absolutely shocking behaviour, that is probably illegal in some form.

  57. I thought in this case the fact the man is employed in a position of official responsibility at Rangers Football Club was relevant and reveals something important. If it had been a private and not an official Rangers email address I would not have published it, as I am not publishing yours.

    Actually I did not know there was a promise not to publish – must be a standard WordPress template. I can publish yours if you like, and then you can sue me and test the legality. But as I am in Spain and the blog is hosted in the Netherlands, I think you might have some problems of jurisdiction.

  58. Shame you had no response to the fact that some countries ARE using the Union Jack as a legitimate flag at the Games.

  59. S Scott

    It appears not to be true.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Saint_Helena

  60. “The author of that last comment has the email address editor@rangers.co.uk. Can anybody trace the name of the particular stupid religious bigot who uses that email address?”

    Hang on. Doesn’t it say “Email(Required)(Will not be published)” on the “Leave a Reply” form?

  61. Fred

    But remember we cybernats are cunning and evil

  62. The desperation of the unionists is palpable, and it clearly is indicative of the anxiety experienced by those vested interests whom turned the Scottish nation into tenants in their own Scotland to begin with.

    As the inane and almost incomprehensible grunting of the oh so the Unionist crème de la crème troglodytes doing their bit for the camera. Although the prospects of these migrating to this side of border is somewhat of a spine chilling prospect. But March for freedom starts somewhere and we all have to sacrifice.

    Way to go Scotland!

  63. ” Actually I did not know there was a promise not to publish – must be a standard WordPress template. I can publish yours if you like, and then you can sue me and test the legality. ”

    Well if it is part of the T&C’s an e-mail to the host should be sufficient to bring about a warning at least but isn’t it just unethical? I think we all expected better.

  64. OK, OK, just to make up for this two faced “false” flag tactic, I have a knockout punch for the YES campaign – and only because of CMs good work at this blog.

    What is needed is some Dutch courage for the bravehearts to run into battlefield on the 18th September, gird their loins to venture into the unknown (after 300 years of colonisation) and pierce the YES box with a sharp ballpoint pen ! All Alex Salmond has to do is arrange to loosen all prices and regulations on alcohol in the run up to the vote – but taking care the bravehearts will not instead be sleeping off a hangover on polling day.

    Something akin to the half priced Famous Grouse tactic the politicians come up with towards the run up to every Xmas, with the aid of a quick conference call to all the supermarket bosses.

  65. Kempe

    What you expect is the least of my concerns.

    With respect to you and Fred, you are not Scottish. You understandably do not get the nuance when people from Rangers football club start talking about us “multiplying” and “taking over”. It was therefore important to expose that this was someone from Rangers Football Club, with an official position there.

  66. Simon Brodie

    24 Jul, 2014 - 7:12 pm

    whois look-up for the domain *rangers.co.uk

    Registrant’s address:
    IT Dept, Broomloan House
    Ibrox Stadium
    150 Edmiston Drive
    Glasgow
    City of Glasgow
    G51 2XD
    United Kingdom

    So, legally speaking you should not be using that address unless you are publishing views of that organisation , or publish a disclaimer that the views are your own , and DO NOT reflect the views of the organisation.

    I am fairly confident the organisation would distance itself from your comment if confronted. You might even get into bother if its not yours to use.

  67. Well done Craig. This is too important to bow down to British’fair play’. These bastards will use every spoiling tactic available. As the saying goes. ‘they don’t like it up them’.

  68. @Craig

    I’m not concerned with the independence debate or flags.

    You should not be publishing personal information about people when you have specifically stated that you wouldn’t. It’s dishonest, it’s unethical, it’s quite possibly illegal and it is unjust.

  69. If it’s true that the The Rangers have joined into this debate in an official way, i’m sure this will be a big story in the Scottish(boak) newspapers the morn.

  70. Craig

    That email address seems to be a catch all PR address for Rangers.

    One prime suspect for that comment must be Lindsay Herron who has is head of PR for Rangers and has a foot in the pie promoting the games.

    https://twitter.com/herron_media

  71. Danny

    People were forced to remove their Yes badges, and saltires with Yes were confiscated. I don’t actually mind people flying Union Jacks at all – they should be allowed to fly anything they like. Including Yes saltires. And Palestinian flags.

    What I object to is one rule for the Yes campaign and a different rule for the Unionists, who are allowed to politicise it as much as they like.
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/exclusive-defence-secretary-intervenes-in-red-arrows-commonwealth-games-row-9625976.html

    I don’t even think your Lodge march should be banned, Danny, don’t worry.

    But that still leaves the question of who paid for all those Unionist campaigning flags.

    So you jump to a (wrong) conclusion about me in the same way that you jump to a conclusion about these flags. Are wrong conclusions a common theme is all your work?

    I don’t really care about your YES or No flags or your petty rules, or even about the upcoming referendum.

    The point is that Scotland is currently, whether you like it or not, Scottish and British. It’s people are free to represent themselves by flying the saltire or the Union Flag, and/or both, separately or together, if they so please! If people flying one or both of their flags conflicts with (bizarrely) Mr Human Right’s or anyone’s else’s interests, then that’s simply tough shit.

    So please, y’all get on with your lives and stop greetin like little bitches.

    little bitch.

  72. Hmmm, I’ve lost a lot of respect for this blog today. Posting e-mail addresses of people commenting shows poor judgement, whilst telling others they do not understand some things because they are not Scottish is just condescending.

  73. Seriously?? With all that’s going on these days, you’re worried about a flag! #firstworldproblems

  74. Craig posted a company email addy, not a personal one.
    Unless i can’t read.

  75. ” It was therefore important to expose that this was someone from Rangers Football Club, with an official position there. ”

    That could’ve been done without publishing personal information.

    By the way my grandfather was a Roman Catholic of Irish descent who married a Protestant Englishwoman. Something which I believe could still result in having your windows put it in parts of Glasgow. I think I understand more than you than might give me credit for.

  76. editor@rangers.co.uk is routinely published, by rangers.co.uk (who own it), friendsofrangers.co.uk, gobalsportmedia.com, sockerframe.com, etc. That address is clearly intended for publication.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=editor%40rangers.co.uk

    Racists so often seem concerned about the reproductive rates of the “races” they disfavour. Maybe they can’t get enough sex.

  77. Just because someone left a particular e-mail address, does not mean it IS there e-mail address.

  78. yeah, no-one could ever use a false email address. it HAS to be Lindsay Herron.

    some of you people are clearly mental. :)

  79. And Kempe plays the religion card.
    So predictable.
    Are you George Galloway in disguise?

  80. Kempe: “By the way my grandfather was a Roman Catholic of Irish descent who married a Protestant Englishwoman. Something which I believe could still result in having your windows put it in parts of Glasgow. I think I understand more than you than might give me credit for.”

    Utter nonsense

  81. Danny

    Yes – you yourself arrived here from a link on followfollow.com. I shan’t give your email address as it is not a company one, but it does contain the word “blue”. I fear your claims that I misrepresented you…

  82. I do however feel we have made much progress in discovering who is behind the handing out of those flags, and that beyond any doubt they were indeed intended as a political symbol in the referendum campaign…

  83. The British establishment is fundamentally duplicitous. They call for political purdah during the games then shove their propaganda [two-faced flags, orders from the MOD for the red arrows, blatant unionist commentary, etc] in all our faces.

  84. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    24 Jul, 2014 - 7:49 pm

    I’ve been trying to stay out of this one, but, hell. If separatists are forced to wave a UJ, then unionists are equally forced to wave a saltire. Confusion only ensues when the wind changes. Played correctly, this could be spun as a smartypants PR stunt that backfired. But Yes seems to have risen to the bait. Beware kneejerk nationalism, I say.

  85. Since there is no privacy policy,data protection policy or terms and conditions on the website the publishing of personal information is probably not going to be an issue. The non-publishing of personal information is based more on good faith rather than legality.

    The email address itself is not validated so it could be anyone using it, but it seems too specific an address to dismiss that.

    The legality of flying the Union Jack where the UK is not competing when other non-competing nations flags are banned, that I would question.

  86. Posting emails is akin to breach of Chatham House rules, i.e. discourages a free and frank exchange.

  87. Phil, 7:27 pm:

    “Lindsay Herron [...] has a foot in the pie…”

    Wonderful imagery!

  88. An excellent book to read is ‘Mountain days, and bothy nights’.
    It is about the early days of Scottish mountaineering, when the unemployed folk from Glasgow in the last century would head for the mountains to give themselves a reason for being. There is a character mentioned in the book who was a paid up member of the Communist Party. He was also a member of the Orange Order.
    A few regulars on here remind me of the book.
    Socialist to the bone until their precious UK state is threatened.

  89. I might ask my friends at WikiLeaks what they can discover from the IP address :-)

  90. Craig: “Danny

    Yes – you yourself arrived here from a link on followfollow.com. I shan’t give your email address as it is not a company one, but it does contain the word “blue”. I fear your claims that I misrepresented you…”

    Why does it matter how I got here or what my email address contains? Why is that an issue for you? Does it make me less of a contributor? Are you once again jumping to conclusions?

    Why not stick to answering the critiques that have been put to you? That’s the whole point is it not? Or is it just an exercise in bitching and name-calling.

  91. I don’t know any Scottish folk that use the term ‘bitching’.

  92. Danny

    The point is that unionists were allowed to hand out obviously political flags aimed at referendum campaigning – paid for we know not how – while any pro-independence material was confiscated.

  93. The Orange Lodge must be in session.
    It’s gone affy quiet.

  94. They are the flags of the nation.
    Ask yourself how many people who waved one thought “Oh, hang on, this is a bit political”.
    Regardless of who handed them out, regardless if it was a stunt or not, the problem (for you at least) is that those flags represent Scotland in the here and now. And if that has any coincidental relation to any political campaign then that’s just tough luck.

    The rest of the world (or perhaps Commonwealth)can’t be expected to put life on hold until the bitch-fest ;) is over.

  95. Danny

    Hardly anybody waved them. I saw only one in just hours of live coverage. But the BBC made sure they were edited in prominently to all the montages and news bulletins.

  96. How pathetic. We should be thankful of the friendship between the nations of the UK, and that we’re not firing rockets at each other, not stirring up divisions about a two-sided flag that no one has to wave.

  97. Maybe Herron is no longer head of PR at Rangers.

    Although he is still named as such on the rangers site it seems he may have left Rangers about a year ago. Or at least there were stories he was leaving and he seems to have stopped contributing to the web site but I found no official leaving story from Rangers or in press.

  98. “The nation” – is that not the point? Would a saltire paired with the EU flag pass muster?

  99. Heron is no longer at Rangers. His linkedin profile lists his current work as: Editor of Commonwealth Games programmes

    http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/lindsay-herron/1b/563/254

  100. nevermind, it will happen anyway

    24 Jul, 2014 - 9:03 pm

    “Hardly anybody waved them. I saw only one in just hours of live coverage”
    Excactly, a self deleting selfie that never was…

    So the unionist freemasons who have Bibi’s same allures, i.e. sending football hooligans into battle on his behalf, have been handing out false flags, whats news…. indicating that the next, and last country to get its Independence, after Scotland, cutting loose from the lost empire of their dreams, will be England. Rejoice.

    Everyone has got it their way, except the dooooh boy British, no fair voting system, no decision making locally, nuclear dumps forced on them, maybe one day they will even wake up for a week and write to their MPs.

    What an amazing foresight with a double barrel shotgun in both feet, a joke if it weren’t forced on people.
    I would advise to take these flags of these funny men with closed minds, men who love men, if they know the right handshakes that is, roll them up and put them in a bag. Once home one can explore the flags full heating value.

  101. nevermind, it will happen anyway

    24 Jul, 2014 - 9:15 pm

    Yes Tom, no bombs or marching, NI is so quiet now, all the bigots have gone home, wherever that may be, and nobody gets beaten up or kneekapped anymore….

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/man-cleared-of-murder-shot-in-kneecapping.23987016

  102. Fun part about those wee flags is that as the night goes on you see that more often than not the weans are holding them saltire out. Fairly pathetic propaganda attempt out thought by children isn’t something anyone could really be proud of.

  103. Gordon Strachan not really

    24 Jul, 2014 - 11:07 pm

    I am not Gordon Strachan, and am in no way affiliated with Rangers FC, but I have used an email address that purports to be connected to Rangers FC. Presumably this will post. It will not require me to click a link from my email to confirm my address…

  104. My immediate question was the same: who is paying for this? Someone is, and I’d like to know. I think it’s probably the poor taxpayer, as usual.

    But also, what’s with the banning of flags? It’s just a flag. If someone wants to make a political statement, so what? A question you won’t find asked in parliament, like so many others. I accept there are perhaps exceptions: Swastika’s are, fairly obviously, anti-semitic, and I’m not a big fan of those Unionist\Republican flags you see at an old firm game. However, why not bring in a Palestinian flag? Hey, even an Israeli one, if you are so minded. I personally don’t even think you should ban the stupid old firm flags. I do draw the line at Swastika’s, ’cause there will be Jewish people in the crowd, but banning all flags by rote is, on consideration, just weird.

    This kind of petty bureaucracy was the hallmark of fascism, as I recall. The corrupt state reaching into every area of people’s lives, whilst the military were used to steal resources, and the police were given free reign to ‘keep the peace’. Just saying.

  105. Sickening Herbert when BBC Scotland showed the Union flag during ‘My Glasgow’ – Yes the image conditioning is disinformation of the same flavor as that used to vilify Russia.

  106. Howard Kennedy

    25 Jul, 2014 - 1:34 am

    In truth, we all knew the unionists were going to politicise them as much as possible as soon as they gave their dire warnings that no-one should politicise them. They even had Hugh whatsisname during the BBC coverage of the opening ceremony going on about the only two small imperial territories that rejected independence in their referenda (no mention of the fact that there were also over 50 nations taking part who have taken back their sovereignty from the empire).

    We had the new Minister for War prohibiting the Red Arrows from trailing blue and white smoke to represent the flag of the host Nation and we had the only opening ceremony in the history of the Commonwealth Games that didn’t include the host nation’s national anthem (unless you count the rousing rendition sung by the Scotland Team just before they entered the arena).

    It’s pathetic, it’s childish and it is so typical of the whole two-face campaign by BT but at the end of the day, the people of Scotland are bigger than this and are sensible enough to see it for what it is – the last petulant squirms of a dying empire.

    I predicted last year that the result will be a 62.5% YES 37.5% NO and I still stand by that.

  107. Howard Kennedy

    Well said.

  108. BrianFujisan

    25 Jul, 2014 - 1:58 am

    Great Piece Craig

    Very Obvious political goings on.

    Here is a take on Some of it from A Thousand Flowers

    http://athousandflowers.net/2014/07/24/glasgow-trolls-better-5-opening-ceremony-bam-ups/

    And what the bbc would NEVER show.. on entry, the Sottish Athletes sing what the Vast Majority of Scots regard as oor National Anthem… From the talents and music of ‘ The Corries’

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BiGV1QuBvc

    Mighty as well Plug some more Corries Choons… My very bestest fave one is…Kismuil’s Galley….they used Mad instruments they built themselves -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sPi51PdvcM

    Pesky Librans…i wonder if Hughie the Greame is Better

  109. However good an idea it may seem at the time, Nationalism is always wrong. Even Islamic Nationalism.

    People are individuals and they follow their hearts, which is a good thing. Life is complicated because people lie.

    Nationalism is manufactured by politicians to divert people from the goodness of their own hearts to worrying about the malice of power-hungry politicians and to whitewash filthy politician’s filthy lies with the over-simplified issues.

    Scottish, English, Ba’athist, Islamist. All the creations of politicians who want people to switch off their brains and allow their pockets and their families to be rummaged. Scottishness is no more a key to enlightenment than joining the Liberal party. You are now a gambling chip in the roulette of politicians.

    Take Palestine. Does anyone seriously believe that Israel does not know where why and when and how rockets get into Gaza? They know what every Muslim man and woman say to eachother in bed in Birmingham. Try assembling a rocket in your garden shed in Washwood Heath darlings.

    They know who stirs up the Islamist shit in the schools because they work for them, and they know which members of staff are being intimidated because the security services and police pay the Muslims to intimidate them. It’s called Divide and Rule.

    There is no burglary or break-in or radicalisation of children or adults which is not generated by the authorities using criminals or spies who are under obligation to them, for one indiscretion or another.

    So how do you get hundreds of sophisticated fireworks into Gaza, and get an excuse for murdering 1,000 civilians and injuring another 2000 of them?

    How do you get an armed group into the city of Mosul without anybody being able to do something? These Muslims who work for the enemies of Islam are no more Muslim than flies. They work for nobody but themselves, scooping a bit of food here and shit there.

    Nationalism is for dumdums, so that the politicos can keep us busy trying to survive their crimes.

  110. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 2:30 am

    Indeed, Guano. Nationalism is a Patriot’s Game, to paraphrase the Irish lyricist.

  111. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 2:31 am

    Oh, Should I reference Ireland on the Scot thread?

    Mea culpa.

  112. Wow.

    So many new trolls on this thread you just know Craig’s getting too painfully close to the truth.

    Rangers? Theyve had so much fraternal advantage over the media and ‘ahem,columns of Scottish society there ought be no suprises.They are but another of the eternal fixes that will always be in up here.

    And yett still the incompetent eejits went bust.

  113. Snf. Snfff. Apocrine sweat. Smell the fear of the asskissing English pedo toffs. They’re afraid of losing their northern colony and their claim on the enlightenment and on independent thought and moral courage.

    Fuck the English. The Yanks cast them off and so can you.

  114. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Jul, 2014 - 6:17 am

    Jives

    “Wow.

    So many new trolls on this thread you just know Craig’s getting too painfully close to the truth.”
    ________________________

    Does that also apply to the previous thread, chump?

  115. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Jul, 2014 - 6:23 am

    This obsession with BBC coverage of Scottish independence is really tedious….and very boring.

    The BBC is a service for the whole of Great Britain (and also Northern Ireland for that matter).

    Why should it not show a bias towards Great Britain remaining as it is, if that is really what’s happening? Why should it propagandize for Scottish independence?

  116. In Oz we have a telcom called Optus. They use the “Yes” motif to promote themselves. I’m sure you have businesses in the UK that use “Yes” as part of some kind of marketing promo. I’m equally sure that you couldn’t prevent anyone wearing a t-shirt that promotes a business, like CK or Coke, from attending CG events. No?

    Yes, we have bad mobile coverage -
    http://www.optus.com.au/

  117. Airdrieonian

    25 Jul, 2014 - 7:36 am

    Habby
    Well I find your usual condescension extremely tedious.
    Fuckity-bye!

  118. Its actually a “Union” flag, Jacks are aboard ships. There are plenty countries in the Commonwealth that have a “union” flag in them and plenty that don’t. scotland is currently part of the Union, if that remains will be decided soon enough. worry about the thousands spent on other part of the games that will be dismantled and or given away after it, like the shooting venue. when done it will be razed to the ground and not a single item may be used again. Now that is waste.

  119. “Very Obvious political goings on.”

    I’m sorry Brian but I don’t see anything obvious at all and I don’t see any evidence of anything political.

    People have always lined the streets and waved Union Flags when the Queen goes past even in Scotland. Nobody has ever seen it as political before. The only difference this time is that there is a Saltire on the other side which is a break from tradition but no big deal, there are Unionists in Scotland and Nationalists in Scotland and a much greater number not all that bothered either way and Scotland belongs to all of them. Nobody has the right to tell people they are not Scottish because they don’t believe what they believe.

    It is possible some rabid fanatical Unionists had the flags printed, their minds are just as deranged and illogical as the rabid fanatical Nationalists but without evidence to the contrary I consider it far more likely that the flags were made and distributed by the company hired to organise the opening ceremony.

  120. I’d have to ask why some haven’t printed/made Union flags minus the Saltier element?

    I think this would wake people up on both sides as to what this all means in the end.

    I’m neither Scot nor Brit (pict nor continental?) by any identifiable geneaology or history. I have no skin in the game, I just collect the vig.

  121. Kenny Campbell

    25 Jul, 2014 - 9:37 am

    There is no issue here around publishing of the email address,it identifies no one. It may allude to an individual but there is no link that editor is a particular individual so no data protection issue exists.

  122. There might be no data protection issues here but it is certainly a breach of trust. The rubric by the comment box is quite clear:

    Email(Required)(Will not be published)

    In the past, I have crossed swords with posters such as Habbabkuk over the issue of anonymity. He has strongly argued in defence of his own anonymity, which he is entitled to do given the rubric quoted above. I imagine he (and others) would feel some unease to learn that his email address can be revealed any time on Craig’s whim.

  123. John Macadam

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:48 pm

    Craig
    It seems to me the UK/No campaign have made a mistake here. Perhaps what they should have done is plastered the area in tartan and the saltire and gone for broke on putting a big kilt on the whole thing. That way they could have loudly proclaimed that your Scottishness was safe in the Union, and that we could all be Scottish and British at the same time, no need for independence, etc etc. This is pretty much what used to happen in the 50s and 60s. Instead they have gone for the alternate option: you can be Scottish or British. To be one is to deny the other, and you can’t be both.

  124. Aye Jist Me Ye Ken

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:58 pm

    The flags were being sold by vendors on the streets outside the games zones. The same vendors who try to peddle their unofficial material on those of us walking to Murrayfield Stadium or Hampden Park. But, hey…don’t let those facts get in the way of a good rant though.

  125. “The flags were being sold by vendors on the streets outside the games zones. The same vendors who try to peddle their unofficial material on those of us walking to Murrayfield Stadium or Hampden Park. But, hey…don’t let those facts get in the way of a good rant though.”

    That would make sense. I couldn’t see Unionists handing out Saltires or Nationalists handing out Union Jacks and assumed it was someone trying to keep both happy.

  126. People choose to wave them and display them because they like and associate with both, ie being Scottish and British,they are not forced to wave them!? Hilarious to see the nats outrage and unbelievable they cant see how intolerant they are being. Little bravehearts,aw bless

  127. KingofWelshNoir, 10:13 am; it isn’t a breach of trust because no trust was invested; quite the opposite.

    editor at rangers.co.uk is obviously an official e-mail address belonging to rangers.co.uk, and a Google search reveals that rangers.co.uk actually publish that address themselves as contact information for the public. A racist comment was submitted by someone using that address.

    If the commenter really owns that address they were speaking on behalf of rangers.co.uk, and therefore placed Craig and the blog team in a conflict of interest by using the blog to post racist material, but relying on Craig to conceal that the source was an official body.

    If the commenter didn’t own the address, then revealing it didn’t reveal any personal data anyway.

  128. “The flags were being sold by vendors on the streets outside the games zones.”

    They weren’t being sold. They were being handed Saltire face up, free to happy folk going into a stadium.
    Never let the truth get in the way of Freds British Nationalist tag team partner.

  129. This is unbelievable. I’m watching a Glasgow games, in Scotland, presented by a studio of London folk. They are discussing Scottish language, and poking fun at it.
    Is this really a Scottish event?
    My arse.

  130. “They weren’t being sold. They were being handed Saltire face up, free to happy folk going into a stadium.
    Never let the truth get in the way of Freds British Nationalist tag team partner.”

    I think people only need to look at the picture which a link was posted to earlier to see where the flags changed hands and which way up they were.

  131. I didn’t see that picture, Fred. How much money were they being sold for?

  132. “I didn’t see that picture, Fred. How much money were they being sold for?”

    Look harder it is there.

    Now where is your picture of them being handed to people Union Flag down as they go in?

  133. So how much then Fred?
    Silly boy. :-)

    G’night loser.

  134. @Juteman

    Fuck of shit for brains waste of space retard.

  135. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Jul, 2014 - 9:15 pm

    KingofWelshNoir

    “He {Habbabkuk – me}has strongly argued in defence of his own anonymity, which he is entitled to do given the rubric quoted above”
    __________________

    I vaguely recall that exchange. I think a couple of people pointed out that you were open about your identity and asked me to be equally open about mine.

    I then suggested that I would be, provided that the Eminences and Useful Idiots would do the same.

    Only Jives responded by publishing his name, address and phone number. It was late at night and he was probably sloshed again. And at a (much) later stage he claimed that he’d changed his name!

    None of the other Eminences and Useful Idiots took up my offer, of course, which showed that their original suggestion was merely a silly provocation.

  136. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 9:31 pm

    Maybe we should ban all T-shirt vendors at Doune the……what was it again?

  137. Tonight, Scotland’s Dan Wallace won his swimming race, then leapt from the water with his arms raised, yelling ‘For freedom!’

    Here’s how the Guardian reported it:

    As soon as Wallace finished, he leapt from the water and cried ‚“for freedom!” At first it was not clear what, exactly, Wallace wanted freedom from. The law, perhaps. In May he was arrested in Florida for urinating on a police car. But it turned out he was quoting William Wallace, via Mel Gibson, in Braveheart.

    “It’s such a Scottish thing and it warms my heart, seeing this and all the patriotic fans outside,” Wallace said. “I’m sure there is a little bit of Wallace in all of us.” Inevitably, Wallace was asked whether he would “follow Alex Salmond’s route to freedom?” “Yeah,” he replied, “definitely.”

    As if the Guardian didn’t know what ‘for freedom’ means.

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/25/commonwealth-games-2014-ben-proud-dan-wallace-swimming-glasgow

  138. Habbakuk,

    Of course you’re welcome-as should everybody here-to your anonymity.

    A minor correction to your post though-if you will?

    I did use my real details,albiet i had changed my name by deed poll a few weeks previously.

    Sloshed? Sure,maybe…but i’m sure in the name of tolerant Freedom and Democracy you’d defend my right to be thus without turning into a hypocritical puritan yeah?

    As you were,child.

  139. Habbabkuk,

    Be as invisible as you want of course but we all know you’re a grandee of the Ashdod bowling club,blazers and what have you.

    No,please,i insist,do take the last king prawn won’t you?

  140. You say the nicest things, Fred.
    Are you depressed because the official marching season has finished?
    Never mind, you can join your brothers on the Better Together Orange March in Edinburgh that is to proceed a few days before the referendum.
    Chin up, old bean.

  141. Juteman, Fred flamed you only because you insulted him with “silly boy” and “loser”. Fred’s declared commenting policy is to immediately return insults to the max; seems to work, too! He’s nothing like Orange Order; I know because we worked together for a while.

  142. Is Fred 9 years old?
    In the Dundee pubs, they are chat up lines, not insults.:-)

  143. @Clark.
    The reason Britnats like Fred are all over the place in their thinking, is because they are being forced to make a fundamental choice in September. Are they Scottish or British. You can be both in many respects, but voting for where ultimate power lies is a very painful choice for some folk.
    Maybe i shouldn’t wind Fred up, as it is obviously causing him problems.

  144. “The reason Britnats like Fred”

    I don’t play your retard games fuckwit.

    Now fuck off and die.

  145. Your pants smell of wee. :-)

  146. lol Getting all veiny faced over flags and coloured smoke from airplanes while our Scottish athletes are winning medals. Best wee country in the world indeed lol

  147. @Habbabkuk

    Up here in Scotlandshire the BBC indents itself on TV and Radio as BBC Scotland. Also we pay our license fees too. Polls show at least 40% of us are Yes supporters. Our national broadcaster is treating us like minority rebel insurgents. An increasing number of Scots are refusing to pay the license fee. I would but my wife won’t let me.

    BBC Scotland has been proven to be biased and found to be so by the Trust wrt an Irish minister whose views they grossly misrepresented. They have still not said sorry. The academic study that found their referendum coverage to be biased has NEVER been reported by the BBC. Instead a middle manager complained to the academic’s Vic Chancellor (over the head of his Dean). Shooting the messenger and pretending the message doesn’t exist.

    I haven’t watched a BBC news program for about 18months as it is not good for my blood pressure.

    Unless you live here in Scotland you have no idea how bad they are.

  148. It may be of interest to your readers to know that Saltires were banned from the London Olympics.

  149. “It may be of interest to your readers to know that Saltires were banned from the London Olympics.”

    As was the Cross of St George.

    International Olympic rules say you cant fly flags of countries not competing over the stadium.

    The ban did not apply to fans taking their own flags to wave.

    The worrying thing is that the Scottish government actually kicked up a big fuss about it and got an exception made for themselves. Not just Nationalist but extremist.

  150. well, just ask anyone in Ulster about how unionists feel when their flag is not being waved.

  151. (Sorry, I haven’t read all the comments – there’s a lot now – so if I am just saying something that’s been said before I apologise.)

    There’s a couple of points about this whole issue. First of all we (Scots) are not allowed to display our flag if it includes a personally held belief based on our nationalism. To me that’s just one step away from banning us from displaying our own flag all-together. It’s that fine a line. After all, what is the Saltaire if it’s not an expression of our sense of nationalism?

    Also, the main thing that annoyed me about the photos of the Saltaire being confiscated was that sat right next to the person who was ejected from the hall were two other people wearing Union Flag T-shirts. What were they trying to say?

    They obviously had a view otherwise why would they wear a Union Flag shirt at a national sporting competition? And I’m sure that view was not simply that they ‘liked the colours’. In other words they were making some sort of a statement…And that, my friends, is POLITICS.

    ANY Union Flag displayed in Scotland IS making a political statement. It is saying something – it’s saying ‘This place is part of Britain’ or ‘We (who are displaying this flag) prefer to think of ourselves as British rather than Scottish’ or ‘We pledge our allegiance to the Queen’ or whatever…

    A flag does not need words on it to be political – a flag is INHERENTLY political. That’s the whole point of flags.

    SO, to conclude, if a Saltaire bearing the word ‘Yes’ is deemed unacceptable because it’s ‘political’ and then those authorities do not apply the same rule to a Union Flag then they are showing a political preference. Thier preference is for the Union.

  152. If the BBC and others are breaking the rules then it its maybe time for a demonstration about BBC bias.

    Let the world see what goes on. Visitors would be most interested too.

  153. @Willie

    That is easy. Just stop watching the BBC.

    People waving placards won’t make any difference, dropping rating figures will.

    Every thread on this blog seems to be full of people whinging about the BBC, they must spend hours glued to their TVs watching BBC and the rest of their time whinging about it.

    Just don’t watch it, I don’t.

  154. @Steve

    You must remember that the Saltire belongs to all Scots not just the Nationalists. It isn’t right for the fanatics to hijack it for themselves.

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