More BBC Dross

by craig on July 25, 2014 8:41 am in Uncategorized

“You have had to live with the missile threat from Gaza for fourteen years now. But now you face a new threat, the tunnels Hamas have built running here from Gaza. How concerned are you about that?”

Incredibly, that really was a question asked by BBC journalist Stephanie Bell of an Israeli man, just broadcast on BBC1. So far over 600 Palestinian civilians have died compared to two Israeli civilians (one of whom was a Bedouin who as a matter of policy are denied air raid shelters). Yet the BBC continues to pump out the narrative that the “problem” is Hamas attacks on Israel.

There are many other more interesting questions Stephanie Bell might have asked. Here are some:

“Do you ever wonder about the lives of the Arab families who lived here before they were removed by force? Whether any of them are now living in Gaza and under those bombs and shells”

“Do you honestly believe that this land is yours because God said so?”

The BBC had also been reporting as credible Israel’s appalling denials that it massacred those families in the UN school, and completely unsubstantiated claim it was stray Hamas fire that did it. The UN have confirmed that Israel has regularly been hitting UN schools and medical facilities.

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253 Comments

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  1. The problem is not the BBC per se, but senior managers & politicians, who set the agenda

  2. It is worth reminding ourselves, because the media never do, that Hamas rockets are home made variations on the garden shed recipe known to school children.

    Here’s an article from Der Speigel about a Palestinian rocket builder.

  3. Beeston Regis

    25 Jul, 2014 - 9:29 am

    When Mark Thompson was photographed with the BBCs marching orders on view it was more than obvious which way the BBC would be spinning.

  4. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    25 Jul, 2014 - 9:29 am

    The rockets are a side issue, which is why the Israelis concentrate so hard on them. The central issues – the continuing annexation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem for Jewish settlements, and the continuing blockade of the Gaza prison camp – both illegal – remain unaddressed. And will continue to be so unless the tacit and material support our governments give Israel’s policy of becoming a monotheistic apartheid state are withdrawn.

  5. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    25 Jul, 2014 - 9:46 am

  6. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    25 Jul, 2014 - 9:58 am

    Tony Blair is willing to share his experience in development with Vietnam:

    http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/government/108237/tony-blair-pledges-to-share-development-experience.html

    And it was doing so well before he arrived….

    Next stop Guangzhou. Not Cairo, not Jerusalem. Guangzhou.

  7. Baal
    “Interesting”

    Or not. An insignificant MEP makes the mildest of rebukes on his web site. Is this the legendary “finer than you think” balance? Entirely predictable. Entirely meaningless.

    Ineffective dissent is an essential part of sustaining the murderous status quo. It changes nothing but keep reformers dreaming.

  8. Alexander Waegner

    25 Jul, 2014 - 10:43 am

    While I’m with you on all the points you make about this conflict and it’s deplorable that the BBC (and other media) doesn’t ask the questions you propose, i believe the question is still justified. Who wouldn’t feel threatened in their place? I think (or sincerly hope) that most Israelis and Palestinians just want to live in peace without being endangered by the actions of radical groups and governments.

    Also, I feel your continued comparisons of casulties doesn’t help your arguments. The violence needs to end not matter how many and whose lives are lost.

  9. This interview is pretty bad Sakur seems to repeat Israeli assertions only.I can fin no record of UNRWA saying that rockets were hidden in an empty school,did they?http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04bn6pj/newsnight-24072014

  10. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 11:18 am

    Rockets still being fired from Gaza. So Israelis have right to defend themselves (just like Russian murderess in Ukraine). I trust JPost. Why would I NOT trust their broadcast of the conflict?

    http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Rocket-barrage-fired-across-central-Israel-rocket-hits-home-in-Ashkelon-368907

  11. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 11:23 am

    Mary,

    Please note I have never insulted you (at least directly) or supported an insult towards you. And you just did so. You of course translated and understood the words butthole brained bagger wrote to me and supported them. Not good.

    My trust of JPost broadcast is out of desperation (and in protest) of may narrow minded mad western lefties on this blog trusting and quoting RT broadcast of Russian Ukrainian conflict. I do have heart but when dealing with heartless (and mindless) one needs to turn into a heartless wolf.

  12. Hamas’ leader expressed legitimate wishes for Gazans – not only a ceasefire but the right to build ports and airports, a proper economy, freedom to deal with the world freely.
    I believe that bringing about all this is in Israel’s interest as well. But firing rockets into Israel, even to express genuine grievance, won’t help.

  13. Sakur, more like sucker upper!

    The appalling dog and pony show, carries on the path of the zionists decrying; “I didn’t do it”, while the Palestinians are subject to and under an imposed by guns, helicopter gunships, submarines, and and an array of air assets ranging from nuclear capable fighter bombers to missiles. This is compounded by the tacit international acceptance that this medieval siege is an acceptable and civilised concept to be practised by the zionists.

    The exceptionalism extended to the zionist fraudsters include the acceptance that Hamas was hiding rockets in the school that was subject of the massacre, that is post the earlier revelations that it was a Hamas mortar that fell short of hitting its target and fell onto the school! There have always been the prevarications of; “I didn’t do it” by zionist scum many times before, zionists shoot Palestinians kids because their parent push them into the path of the bullets, or under the tanks, or ………

    This is the sad realities of the 21st century, for the benefit of whomsoever from the future who can read this, we the people strongly opposed the polices of genocide, land theft, and apartheid in Isreal! Alas it was our corrupt, undermined and blackmailed political leadership whom carried on supporting this aberration in human history.

  14. Alexander

    Had that been the answer to a question like “How do you feel about recent events?”, it would have been legitimate to broadcast. But to spout the entire government narrative dressed up as a question is not legitimate.

  15. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 11:47 am

    Abe Rene

    “But firing rockets into Israel, even to express genuine grievance, won’t help.”

    Nobody seem to care, even people on this blog who pretend to care (except Mr Murray of course). All these people need is another reason to moan on US hegemony and seemingly oppose it. They (these people) give no toss when people die in other places AS LONG AS US is not involved in these killings EVEN IF ANOTHER POWER IS INVOLVED BUT that power happens to be opposing US, just like these people. It is well played masquerade aimed at calming down their own underachievements (personal or otherwise). Hate US, Hate Tories, Hate Necons. It is all them. Not us. Despite the very ideology they pray to historically inspiring the largest (in quantity) number of mass killings. BUT WHO cares? As Long as it was NOT US involved in these mass killings.

  16. Well said, Uzbek.

  17. Yesterday’s Today in parliament had Lord Sachs moaning on about Gaza and anti-Semitism. Their lordships want to make William Hague Anti-religious-extremism Tsar. For a moment I thought he was going to say Blair. He hovered and settled on Hague.

    For a man who has just signed for and sworn in ISIS/ IE The Israeli Emperor, he would be the ideal choice.. He can sit grinning in a short gown in the House of Lords in front of the cameras and elegantly cross and uncross his untighted legs – all in the best possible taste.

  18. The BBC are completely disreputable, and have been for an exceedingly long time. However, that doesn’t mean all their reporters are – who actually get out to where it is actually happening – and record detailed witness evidence. Sometimes this actually gets Broadcast – say once very late at night…and someone actually copies it – and uploads it to youtube. This happened just after the latest death of Osama Bin Laden, and it has also happened in the Ukraine…

    Then that report is buried and all efforts made to delete it from youtube. But completely deleting stuff from the Internet is very difficult – because many cache copies, can still linger on numerous different servers…

    This is well worth a click

    “The Catastrophe of #MH17: BBC in the Search of the “#BUK” – The Video Report Censored by BBC”

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/the-catastrophe-of-mh17-bbc-in-search.html

  19. Slightly off topic but Martin Sherman who writes opinion pieces in the Jerusalem Post has called for Gaza to be ethnically cleansed and taken over by Israel.

    “The only durable solution requires dismantling Gaza, humanitarian relocation of the non-belligerent Arab population, and extension of Israeli sovereignty over the region.”

    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Into-the-fray-Why-Gaza-must-go-368862

  20. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 12:17 pm

    @Tony_0pmoc

    Here is another version (originated in the Lubyanka basements) ignored by western media.

    “The plane was shot Americans. There is evidence. But there is one problem. On Board was not living people. It was missing earlier in Malaysia the plane with bodies of passengers! Be cursed America! Damn Americans! Washington is ready to destroy half of the world for natural resources of Russia! Europe awake! You are a slave of the Americans! You are nothing!”

  21. there is only one solution to this problem in two steps. Israel understands force, because it has never understood peace, they even assassinated their own president who wanted peace with arabs. So, a buly will never stop until he gets punched. These rockets, tunnels are nothing compared to what Israel has in its arsenal. So, 1st step of the solution is, all arabs and muslims, should get united and build a strong army, even with nuclear arsenals. Only then, when Israel knows it can get knocked out, only then it will listen to all UN resolutions and wil go back to 1967 border. I am very sorry to say this, but there is no other option. Second step: all countries, especially in the west, should ban lobbying by any groups for any other country outside their countries. This is a main problem in today’s world. an israeli or arab should not be alowed to meddle with politicians in another country to lobby the interetsts of their groups back home. why should a politician in my country who is paid by may taxes sgould listen to the particular interets of israeli groups to promote their interest outside my country? If they want things changed in their country they should get hell out of here to their country and work hard in their country with their people and politicians to lobby their own interetsts. Ban on lobbying has to be made a crime by international law. Israel is so powerful today because of lobbysts meddling with the politicians in America, Europe, Russia, etc. This has to stop. Israel is now a cancer on the planet. It needs treatment.

  22. Totally agree Komodo @ 9:29 – To strip the US/UK insulation around Israel means the diametric intention I hold sets me out on a limb. –

    Fcuk it I cannot bring to mind another way. Time will tell.

  23. I would love the native populations of Amerika and Australia to invoke the right to exist and the right to return.

    Of course in Amerika, they have allies in this regard, AIPAC. All the native indians need to do is occupy members of AIPACS houses, what could they say?

  24. Tony_Opmoc – The vineyardsaker piece seems to support a known snare stratagem that maneuvers the drawing fighter jet from below the target to above it immediately the active missile homing radar alarm sounds off.

  25. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 12:39 pm

    Israel is so powerful today because of lobbysts meddling with the politicians in America, Europe, Russia, etc.

    Lobbying in Russia? Really? There is no such thing as lobbying in Russian political lingua. Corruption however is another matter and it exists in Russian by very large and especially in Kremlin or Russian White house (Russian government office). Just for your information; corruption is illegal in Russia but it does not stop it from being the main source of income for most of Russian politicians and government officials.

  26. Uzbek

    Russia is very precious to the MWL on here, so your excellent observations will be ignored, denied or avoided with whataboutery. Credit to Craig, he does criticicise Russia and is roundly castigated for doing so because the MWL find it impossible to view an adversary of the West with anything but complete adulation.

  27. So going back to the beginning:

    One group of people (Uk Balfour agreement & the UN) took the land from another group of people (Palestinians) and gave it to another group of people (Jewish/Israeli’s).

    You just cant make this shit up, can you.

    The Palestinians should be suing the UN and UK for crimes against humanity.

  28. Uzbek in the UK, 11:47 am: I tend to criticise “my side, the West” myself…

    …different things upset different people. Personally, I get very upset about being deceived, and I suspect that this is the motivation of some of the people you criticise. The ongoing propaganda that “ours” is the “good side”, that “the West” only ever attacks countries for the good of “their” populations rather than “our” commercial interests – people resent the repetitive, dishonest brainwashing. “Other sides” also propagandise and deceive, but their outpourings are not all over the news stands of every newsagent, they’re not repeated hourly on our radio and TV, they’re not interwoven into our entertainment. Essentially, we’re force-fed propaganda, and people come to identify the entity deceiving them, “the West”, as their personal enemy.

    Uzbek, I can understand that you value highly the free speech in the UK compared with Uzbekistan, and it probably seems to you that us anti-“Western” commenters don’t know how lucky we are – and you’re right; most of us have known nothing else, so how could we?

    But Uzbek, criticising “the West” while failing to criticise other governments does no direct harm, and the “West” could do far more good for the people of those other governments if it put its own house in order first; without that, it lacks moral credibility.

    Also, the ways our “Western” governments deceive us cause us to be wary of criticising other governments that the “West” opposes, because such criticism is usually recycled to justify war upon those countries – “humanitarian intervention” and the “responsibility to protect”.

  29. @Uzbek …

    Isn’t a lot of lobbying just a sophisticated form of corruption?

  30. Uzbek, personal enemies have more emotional effect upon someone than abuse and oppression of others. Being deceived personally invokes a stronger emotional reaction than the murder of someone far away to whom we have no direct connection. It’s a sad aspect of human nature, but to be expected. It’s far from ideal, but it isn’t insane or evil.

  31. “But Uzbek, criticising “the West” while failing to criticise other governments does no direct harm, and the “West” could do far more good for the people of those other governments if it put its own house in order first; without that, it lacks moral credibility.”

    The theme tune of fellow travellers and useful idiots throughout the years. Some of us have moral standards that we seek to apply universally.

  32. Uzbek in the UK, there is another matter too. The UK government allies with the US government. By virtue of democracy (such as it is), US actions are made in the name of voters. When people criticise “the West”, there is often a strong element of “not in my name”.

    ESLO, yes, I’m sure your attempts to undermine and discredit the man who stood up to torture in Uzbekistan demonstrate your excellent moral superiority.

  33. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 1:42 pm

    @Pykrete

    Yes, I agree with your statement. Completley agree. But My response was to the call from Tito to “Ban on lobbying has to be made a crime by international law. Israel is so powerful today because of lobbysts meddling with the politicians in America, Europe, Russia, etc. This has to stop. Israel is now a cancer on the planet. It needs treatment.”

    I was telling him that there is no such thing as lobbying in Russia (not Israeli not any other) but full and rampant corruption which is already illegal by Russian Law. But it does not stop putin and co (and other blokes not to say at least Usmanov) benefiting hugely from corruption. Will Tito now be calling making ILLEGAL issue illegal again? And then making it Illegal 3 times. Will it help?

  34. ESLO, there are those who criticise diverse abuses, those who concentrate on certain abuses, those who don’t criticise at all, and those who perpetrate abuse. I’ve ranked these in decreasing order of morality. It would seem, by your repeated denigration of their morals, that you’d like those who criticise less than universally to leave the field of debate. You make no attempt to build bridges, enhance communication, advance understanding, or find points of agreement to work forward from. Instead, you attempt to sabotage my attempts to do so with Uzbek in the UK. If you believe in unity to oppose oppression, you’ve an odd way of working for it.

  35. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 1:52 pm

    @Clark

    As mentioned by ESLO you need to bring up your moral standard, universalise them. You cannot criticise your neighbour for damping rubbish in your garden and not criticise another neighbour for damping rubbish in 4th neighbours garden just because as it happens this neighbour (whom you do not criticise) agreed to sign under your complaint letter to the council in your support. And if you do, you cannot then claim to be trustworthy person with good integrity.

    If one decided to side with another knowingly that this another is causing harm to someone, one cannot be called moral knight. One is only complicit with another’s harm causing capabilities. And on this blog I see that this is happening again and again. So called moral knights (whom I call simply Mad western lefties) cry out loud about Israels/US/UK crimes against humanity while deliberately feeding readers (who have not yet been leftisised to the extend of loosing their consciousness) propaganda from another side.

    How do you think I should behave?

  36. Mark Golding

    At the time, I posted the link above, I hadn’t actually watched the video as I had to go out. Now I’ve seen it I’m close to tears.

    She predicted it a month in advance…It’s devastating evidence.

    Turn on the Translation Captions

    “Video: Recorded at least one month prior to MH17 Crash, published with ENG subs on June 18, 2014
    Note: Pay close attention starting at 01:10”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE

    Tony

  37. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 2:02 pm

    @Clarke

    For example. The way that Mr Murray stands against western governments I fully support. He criticised and continue to criticise them but at the same time when he sees dark side in those who are supposedly allied with him (by also criticising west) he also criticise them. For him integrity is paramount. Thus my respect and even though I disagree with some of his ideas and calls I fully support his integrity.

    And this (integrity) MUST be paramount for everyone who has put moral knight armour on his/her shoulder.

    And those who do otherwise deserve only contempt not at least for twisting the truth when it suits them.

  38. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 2:05 pm

    Callowaay on Gaza. Long but worthy of a listen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0gEzPG82pc#t=21

  39. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 2:07 pm

    Callowaaaay? Sorry. Galloway.

  40. Uzbek, I agree that ideally, everyone would universalise their criticism. Personally, I cannot; I can’t even learn enough about one conflict to be thoroughly informed about it, let alone all such conflicts. I’m a tech with a head full of computer stuff; international politics isn’t my life.

    “How do you think I should behave?”

    Compassionately. People are more often wrong than evil. Relate your experiences from Uzbekistan. When people post untrue assertions or link to misleading articles, just post a correction and/or a link to the facts. Facts can change some people’s minds. Eventually.

    I know you’ve been unfairly criticised by commenters on this site, while also being pressured by other Uzbeks; it is all most unfair upon you. Strength and best wishes to you.

  41. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 2:18 pm

    The sad thing is, this is supposed to be satirical, but comes across as straight reporting.

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/israel-palestinians-given-ample-time-to-evacuate-t,36527/

  42. Uzbek in the UK,2:02 pm:

    “this (integrity) MUST be paramount for everyone who has put moral knight armour on his/her shoulder”

    I agree that this is an ideal to be worked towards, but you can’t expect people to arrive at their destination until they’ve travelled the road for a long time… Have patience.

    “And those who do otherwise deserve only contempt not at least for twisting the truth when it suits them”

    I entirely disagree, because they are not attempting to deceive, but have been deceived themselves (as we all are to some extent). If you treat them with contempt, they’re likely to go even further toward the opposing viewpoint. If they feel that their opinion is routinely suppressed or ridiculed by the powers-that-be, they are likely to become over-defensive (ie aggressive) when they argue with you.

    Uzbek, it’s a hard road. I’m personally sorry for the unfair accusations you’ve suffered at this site.

  43. Rabbi David Eliezrie, Yorba Linda

    To the editor: There is another choice for the residents of Gaza besides living with a blockade or fighting Israel: to repudiate the goals of Hamas or remove it from power. The Hamas charter states its goals as the destruction of Israel and struggle against Jews. Every day with rockets, tunnels and terror, Hamas advances these aspirations. (“Gaza’s dilemma: Deadly war or suffocating Israeli embargo,” July 23)

    Then the good rabbi goes on to say Gazans must repudiate Hamas, although none so far will accept zionists must repudiate the satanic creed of zionism, and so far none ever accept that Isreal proper is only an eight mile stretch of land that was supposed to be like Lichtenstein or Monaco a sort of private domain for the house of redshield, and no this aberration that is bent on genocide and ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population in favour of the migrants coming from US, Europe and elsewhere.

    As the killing goes on now the three more Palestinians shot dead in the West Bank

    The article as usual portrays the Palestinian trouble makers, and for the sake of keeping up the façade in the middle in passing in a single paragraph points out;

    Only men aged over-50 are being allowed into Al Aqsa mosque after a massive protest in the West Bank last night resulted in the deaths of two Palestinians.

    Freedom to practice their religion is not the point of the debate though. How dare the Palestinians protest about the destruction of Gaza?

    Good points Tito

  44. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 2:35 pm

    @Clark

    The problem that these people mislead others intentionally and on purpose.

    You are right that one cannot (possibly) learn about all conflicts (unfortunately) happening on our planet. BUT one MUST learn everything possible about the conflict he/she is commenting on, or at least listen to more than one side. This was/is not a case with regards to conflict in Ukraine. What I see (and I know something about history of both Russia and Ukraine) is simple one way street. The way that benefit perpetrators. How are they (so called moral knights) are different from the very people (western governments) they criticise? They too twist truth when it suits them. They too deliberately mislead and make other believe what they say by pretending to be trustworthy and well intentioned.

  45. Uzbek, you’re right that some commenters sometimes mislead deliberately. But you should still excuse them to some extent because they believe it to be necessary in order to counter propaganda. I disagree, I think that only facts are durable, but I recognise the difference in motivation between Blair lying to start an attack on Iraq, and a commenter here lying because they think they have to counter lies like Blair’s.

    People aren’t always very clever; you generally have to do some of their thinking for them 😉

  46. Collapse of Ukraine Government: Prime Minister Yatsenyuk Resigns amidst Pressures Exerted by the IMF

    Ukraine’s Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk announced his resignation in the Rada (Parliament) and that of the entire Cabinet on Thursday, July 24. This decision was taken following the withdrawal of two parties from the coalition government and the non-adoption of two important pieces of legislation, which had been demanded by the International Monetary Fund (IMF)

  47. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 2:47 pm

    Clark

    I do not mind accusations. At least it shows that these people are not capable of entering discussion and resort to insults.

    I disagree with this “because they are not attempting to deceive, but have been deceived themselves”. I have asked many times and times again to learn about history of both sides. Listen to both sides before coming up with comments of accusation of one side to the benefit of another. Unlike me these people grew up here (in western society) where access to the information was much more open than the one I grew up in. How comes that it took me only few years to catch up and for people who from birth had access to the information takes never to do it? Are they stupid? If yes, should they then be paid attention to?

    I was brainwashed to the extend you cannot even imagine. Soviet/Russian/Uzbek brainwashing technologies are way and way ahead of western. This is one of the areas where west is catching up with former soviets. BUT I learnt (still learning) and I call these people to do the same BEFORE they bluntly insist on supporting one side and ignoring everything that supports other side.

    It looks to me like perfectly orchestrated deceit.

    And here is the quote to finish our lovely conversation. I am sure you know who it belongs to. “In a time of universal deceit – telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

  48. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 2:50 pm

    passerby

    At least in Ukraine Prime Minister can resign. I have not seen this happening in Russia for the long time. Except of course the time when putin and Medvedev changed seats.

  49. ‘Some of us have moral standards that we seek to apply universally.’

    ESLO- So you will castigate as racists and ethnic cleansers those who support the argument outlined in this article posted earlier by Doug the Dog ?

    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Into-the-fray-Why-Gaza-must-go-368862-

    FYI just in case if you argue that these views are only held by an ‘extreme minority’ in Israel, please read this list of the supporters of Mr Sherman’s ‘Israeli Institute for Strategic Studies-

    http://www.martinsherman.org/category/martin-sherman-2/

    As you can see, his backers include a General in the IDF, an Israeli National Security Advisor, an Israeli minister, and our old friend from across the pond, Dr Daniel Pipes- so the sentiments extruded by Sherman in the JPost article above are likely to be close to mainstream opinions in Israel now.

  50. I have not seen this happening in Russia for the long time.

    Is that the best you can do? Reasonable, logical, and eloquent!

    The problem that these people mislead others intentionally and on purpose.

    Condescending upon us all O’ font of wisdom do tell how ought we not commit any thinking errors?

    I was brainwashed to the extend you cannot even imagine. Soviet/Russian/Uzbek brainwashing technologies are way and way ahead of western. This is one of the areas where west is catching up with former soviets. BUT I learnt (still learning) and I call these people to do the same BEFORE they bluntly insist on supporting one side and ignoring everything that supports other side.

    It looks to me like perfectly orchestrated deceit.

    Everything to you looks skewed, and orchestrated, other than your inane belligerence, in a fashionable angst of teenagers! Is that the affects of unbrainwashing, (or is that dirty brain) that you have undergone? From one extreme to the other!

    Frankly you have little in the way of value adding to any argument, other than derailing a thread that is about Palestine, and the barbaric behaviour of the zionist scum. This is perfectly exhibited by the support that you get from the zionist support spetsnaz assigned to this blog.

    BTW how does it feel to be so wise, and so knowledgeable? When ought we discard the encyclopaedias and instead start consulting you?

  51. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 3:03 pm

    Tony; So far the shadowing fighter is hearsay. We await concrete evidence from either side, but using a civilian airliner as a human shield makes sense for Kiev.

  52. It occurred to me that this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE predicting the shootdown of a civil airliner over Ukraine – might possibly be a recent fake propaganda piece…

    Well it isn’t – because some of the comments are over a month old. This proves almost conclusively that the Ukraine Government has been shadowing civilian airlines with Fighters and Bombers for at least a month. This gives massive added substance to witness reports that MH17 was followed by Ukraine Fighter Aircraft, and it is they, not The Russians, nor The Rebels that shot it down.

    Now watch the Cognitive Dissonance kick in.

    Extract from Youtube

    “Елена Прохорова via Google+1 month ago

    Militia Soldier – Elena, from Sloviansk English Subs

    Militia Soldier – Elena, from Sloviansk English Subs

    A brave woman from Sloviansk wants to tell the world, what she thinks about the situation. Project Anti-Maidan is just getting up on its feet. We will be thankful for any help you can give…
    From:
    Anti-Maidan
    Views:
    94

    5
    ratings
    Time:
    02:16
    More in
    News & Politics”

    Tony

  53. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    25 Jul, 2014 - 3:10 pm

    The Jpost page seems to have been withdrawn, OldMark. Funny, dat.

    Phil: ANY dissent by an establishment figure is welcome. It’s rare enough. So: interesting.

    Generally: if you think the BBC’s bad, take a look at today’s Times. Looks like Regev’s running it.

  54. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    25 Jul, 2014 - 3:18 pm

    MC Tony Blair iz in da house….da Chineez house.

    http://www.wantinews.com/news-8697062-Former-British-Prime-Minister:-the-next-year-and-a-half-Chinese-investment-over-the-past-30-years-from-more-than.html

    The translation’s a bit shaky, but it’s the usual Blair guff (on a previous trip, the Chinese commented on its total lack of substance). Blair arrived hotfoot from advising Vietnam, which has a major maritime dispute going on with China, and the other end of his leash is in Bill Clinton’s hand.

    Some fucking envoy to the ME.

  55. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 3:19 pm

    I see the month old comments, Tony, as well as the flurry of protests including those attacking the young lady for being well-dressed.

    The propaganda flows like honey.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VyDtDDRUC8&list=PLCpGr3boiJOozdnhzaxOfIYp84Xu4GVzc

  56. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 3:19 pm

    Ben

    “but using a civilian airliner as a human shield makes sense for Kiev.”

    Any evidence of this? From what I have been seeing it is quite an opposite. It is Russian side which is using human shield in their fight. Ukrainian military (unlike Russian military in Chechnya) have avoided heavy use of artillery just because high possible civilian casualties.

    And here you are claiming very opposite of this.

    WTF?

  57. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 3:23 pm

    ” From what I have been seeing it is quite an opposite. It is Russian side which is using human shield in their fight. Ukrainian military (unlike Russian military in Chechnya) have avoided heavy use of artillery just because high possible civilian casualties.”

    Replace the phrase ‘Russian side..’ with Hamas and you’ll have perfect confluence.

  58. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 3:42 pm

    Ben

    You have not answered my question. Is it deliberate? What makes you think that Ukrainian military would lure civilian airplane into their airspace and then use it as a shield. And if they are so coward why have they not been doing it before? You might know that they lost at least 4 of their military jets. And unlike Russians they do not have hundreds of jets ready to fly and carpet bomb whoever.

  59. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 3:44 pm

    ” they lost at least 4 of their military jets”

    Once again you answer your own question without any awareness.

  60. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 3:48 pm

    Ben,

    Are you deliberately avoiding answering my questions? So it takes one side to loose 4 jets to then realise that they need civilian jet cover? Interesting idea. You might well be the best military strategist since Marshal Zhukov.

    On another matter. Can I please ask you what do you think about Dmirti Rogozin, Russian deputy prime minister?

  61. Lost in translation perhaps. When English isn’t your first language, it can be tricky to understand.
    Israel now creating dead zones in Gaza.No go area’s. Like one of those colour changing gob stoppers Gaza loses another ring and the ghetto gets smaller.The noose gets tighter.The IDF gets closer.

  62. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 3:54 pm

    Israel would be before the bench in the Hague if not for US vetoes. Thanks Obummer.

    http://chris-floyd.com/

    “But let us imagine, just for a moment, that their deceitful narrative was true. What if Hamas just woke up one fine, clear peaceful morning and said, “Hey, let’s start firing missiles at Israel, fellas! Won’t that be a hoot?” The fact is that even in that scenario, it would not be an “unprovoked attack,” but a legitimate act of self-defense.

    How do we know this? Because one of Israel’s most honored statesmen told us so. As Jonathan Schwarz notes, Abba Eban, one of the founding fathers of Israel, used his renowned eloquence to defend Israel in the UN from charges of aggression for striking first in the 1967 Six-Day War. Rising to address the global body — where he had once served as vice-president of the General Assembly — Eban put forth his case. The surprise attack was justified, he said, because Egypt had blockaded an Israeli port:

    “The blockade is by definition an act of war, imposed and enforced through armed violence. Never in history have blockade and peace existed side by side. From May 24 onward, the question who started the war or who fired the first shot became momentously irrelevant. There is no difference in civil law between murdering a man by slow strangulation or killing him by a shot in the bead. From the moment at which the blockade was imposed, active hostilities had commenced and Israel owed Egypt nothing of her Charter rights. If a foreign power sought to close Odessa or Copenhagen or Marseilles or New York harbour by the use of force, what would happen? Would there be any discussion about who had fired the first shot? Would anyone ask whether aggression had begun?”

  63. Uzbek: You ask more questions than Habbakuk or Res Dis.
    BTW , where are they ?

  64. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:00 pm

    Ben

    With your military genius I wonder why wasting time on typing words on keyboard. You could offer very valuable advice to ones you so greatly support (and I do not have anything against it) on how to use civilians as shields. I am sure they will find your advise as valuable as some of your Mad friends on this blog when you suggested that Ukrainians were using 258 people as human shield.

    I wonder what would have happen to Georgiy Zhukov if he was born in the age of internet. Would he wasted his talent that von so many victories?

  65. DO YOU UNDERSTAND US FOREIGN POLICY?

    HERE IS THE EXPLANTION.

    We profess not to like terrorists – but – we support the state of Israel whether it bombs civilians, hospitals and schools. Of course we have nothing to say about the occupation of Gaza nor are we particularly perturbed about the stealing of Palestinian lands by the building of settlements. We simply do not support terrorists.

    We support the Iraqi government in the fight against ISIS.
    We don’t like ISIS, but ISIS is supported by Saudi Arabia whom we do like.
    We don’t like Assad in Syria. We support the fight against him, but ISIS is also fighting against him.
    We don’t like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government in its fight against ISIS.
    So some of our friends support our enemies, some enemies are now our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, who we want to lose, but we don’t want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win.
    If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they could be replaced by people we like even less, such as in Libya.
    And all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists
    who were not actually there until we went in to drive them out.
    Pretty soon, we shall be running out of oil and have to go solar…
    After that we shall have to set up a committee to terrorise countries with the most sunshine.

  66. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:05 pm

    DoNNyDarKo

    “You ask more questions than Habbakuk or Res Dis.”

    Possibly. But I am not getting any answers. At least it shows how ridiculous Mad Western lefties are when they cannot answer simply put forward question.

    And you need to sort out your identity issue? I am who I am and have never been here under other name. And also I am one man corporation. Oops, sorry. I forgot that this word for Mad western lefties is like red cloth for a crazy bull.

  67. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:07 pm

    “Military genius…”? You are the first to suggest it. Actually I have average intelligence, but it does give me an advantage in some circumstances.

  68. nevermind, it will happen anyway

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:10 pm

    Whoever said that Hamas has no more allies and is in a weak position? That only Qatar is now supporting them?

    Poppycock, Irans Rohani said “Was die Zionisten in Gaza machen, ist ein unmenschlicher Völkermord, daher muss die islamische Welt heute einheitlich ihren Hass und Widerstand gegen Israel erklären.”

    freely translated ‘What the zionists are undertaking in Gaza is inhumane genocide, thats why the islamic world today must declare their hate and resistance against Israel’

    Rohani said this as a political response to massive public support by millions for Hamas.

    go figure
    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/iran-millionen-menschen-demonstrieren-gegen-israel-a-982927.html

  69. Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said on Friday Warsaw will probably appeal against a European Court of Human Rights ruling that Poland hosted a secret CIA jail.

    Clearly the court did not understand that it ought to absolve the collaborators with CIA to run secret concentration camps, and torture jails, for the benefit of keeping the world safe of course!

    Pathetic! Polish government is to appeal the courts decision

    The court found Poland violated its obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights to prevent torture, ensure the right to liberty, and properly investigate allegations a crime had been committed on its territory. It ordered Poland to pay al-Nashiri 100,000 euros in damages and 130,000 euros to Zubaydah.
    “The ruling of the tribunal in Strasbourg on CIA jails is embarrassing for Poland and is a burden both in terms of our country’s finances as well as its image,” said Joanna Trzaska-Wieczorek, a spokeswoman for the Polish president.

    ….
    The ruling from Strasbourg may have implications for other European states alleged to have hosted CIA prisons: similar cases have been lodged with the court in Strasbourg against Romania and Lithuania.

    Well back now to Nazi, nazi, nazi ……

  70. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:12 pm

    Courtenay; The conspiracy amongst Western powers is a fragile alliance. Omerta used to be the rock-solid wall between the Mafia and justice. They all sense their doom if the castle wall is breeched. They are resolved to keep their status if they hang together, rather than hanging separately.

  71. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:22 pm

    Ben

    You might have average intelligence, you might not have intelligence at all. But the suggestion you made on how military airforce (Ukrainian in your suggestion) should avoid(or had avoided in your case) their jets to be shot by BUK or other types of anti-aircraft missiles definitely deserves a prize. Who knows but (thanks to you) we might yet again start traveling by sea and land and avoid any kind of air travel. Who knows who else would follow your advice.

  72. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:22 pm

    As I was saying……..

    “On Wednesday, the United Nations Human Rights Council voted to authorize a commission of inquiry into alleged war crimes in Gaza. (The United States was the sole “no” vote.) The United Nations’ top human rights official raised what she called the “strong possibility” that Israel and Hamas have committed war crimes with indiscriminate attacks on civilians, and the drumbeat from world leaders and demonstrators pointed to the lopsided number of Palestinian casualties — more than 650, most of them civilians — versus 35 on the Israeli side, 32 of them soldiers.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/world/middleeast/as-much-of-the-world-frowns-on-israel-americans-hold-out-support.html?ref=todayspaper

  73. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:27 pm

    “the islamic world today must declare their hate and resistance against Israel’”

    If that bloody speech did not contain word hate I would have wholeheartedly supported it. Why hate? Resistance yes, but why hate? If one knows he is hated, would not one be making sure that those who hate him will never have an opportunity to act against him, or if they have acted will surely loose?

    There is huge difference between hate and resistance. Unless of course Iranian president does not know about it, or (what I think is more likely) is using this tragic events to his benefits.

  74. Courtenay Barnett, voted the best comment of this thread.

    Israel refused to help pre-attack: UN agency

    HUSSEIN Shembali’s family thought they would finally be safe after fleeing the heavy shelling around their homes in northern Gaza for refuge in a UN school.

    But on Thursday Hussein stood alone outside the mortuary in Beit Hanoun, a young orphan with no siblings and his white vest soaked in blood.

    His mother, sister and two brothers were among at least 15 killed when shells struck the school they had been sheltering in and were preparing to evacuate amid renewed fighting. UN staff were also among the dead. Initial reports blamed the Israelis.

    ……

    Chris Gunness, the spokesman for the UN Relief and Works Agency, which runs the schools, criticised Israel for failing to respond to its repeated requests to help to evacuate the school after fighting moved closer.

    Mr Sackur probably had not been briefed and up to speed when he was asking his ever so “pertinent questions”!!!!! Accurate and unbiased “news” from a publicly funded organisation.

  75. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:31 pm

    Ben

    They surely need your military mind. Casualties disparity on both sides confirm this.

  76. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:34 pm

    “We are currently amidst “the three weeks” – the annual Jewish period of quasi-mourning that leads to the fast day of Tisha B’Av. This is the season that bids us to look deeply into the soul of our community and examine the ways that our sinat chinam – baseless hatred – has led to our communal downfall.

    Driven by the spirit of this season, we cannot help but speak out in response to the horrific loss of life currently taking place in Gaza, at the hands of the Israeli military. We deplore the Israeli government’s military crackdown in the West Bank that led to its lethal, military onslaught on the people of Gaza. We mourn the deaths of hundreds of innocent people, including children.

    We condemn Hamas’ rockets attacks on Israel and are deeply grieved by the anxiety, injury and death they have caused. But we cannot view this as a war between two equal sides. Israel has unlimited hi-tech weaponry; it dominates Gazan airspace, its borders, its utilities and economy.

    Moreover, it was Israel who willfully launched this mission of death on the Palestinian people. Israel hides behind the pretext of avenging the still unsolved kidnapping and killing of three Jewish boys. Rather than seeking recourse through civil, legal means, Israel’s leaders have called for vengeance, with terrible consequences.

    We can not stand idly by as the Jewish State acts with such wanton disregard, with such sinat chinam, for the humanity of the mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, children and elders of Gaza.

    As Jews, we abhor the abuse of human rights that are standard practice of our fellow Jews in the Israeli government and Israeli military. This is not the path of justice”

    http://rabbibrant.com/2014/07/25/israel-in-gaza-a-statement-by-the-jvp-rabbinical-council/

  77. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:38 pm

    “Accurate and unbiased “news” from a publicly funded organisation.”

    And peace in the world. And end for social injustices. And stop killing plants, animals and fishes. And also pink glasses in addition to it, otherwise we will not see all these changes.

    Now lets wait and see.

  78. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:40 pm

    Uzbek; Maybe you should just Habbabreak me. Many have……

  79. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:45 pm

    Ben

    Not sure what does it mean (hope nothing sexual). But no, thank you.

  80. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:48 pm

    Ben

    “As Jews, we abhor the abuse of human rights that are standard practice of our fellow Jews in the Israeli government and Israeli military.”

    Romans used to say “Divide et Impera”. 2000 years passed by still very actual today, is not it?

  81. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:48 pm

  82. Baal
    “ANY dissent by an establishment figure is welcome. It’s rare enough So: interesting.”

    I see mild dissent on the fringes of the establishment as just another mechanism to sustain the establishment. Imagine not a whisper of dissent from anywhere within the establishment, then even the likes of Craig might have to wonder if the system needed changing.

  83. I’ve been searching for video evidence of a.) rockets actually landing in Israel, and b.) Iron Dome missiles actually impacting incoming ‘Hamas rockets.’ Still nothing. I know 2-3 explosions have gone off in Israel since this ‘war’ began, including the one at a gas station in Ashdod, but still zero footage of Hamas rockets – either airborne or making impact.

    Strange for a country with so many public cameras, to say nothing of smartphones, etc…

  84. Alexander Waegner

    25 Jul, 2014 - 4:54 pm

    Craig, I see you’re point, thank you for replying!

  85. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 5:00 pm

    Ben

    “where-is-Palestine”

    I wonder if Chechens, Tatars, Crimea Tatars, Uighurs, Tibetans, Curds and many many others can ask the same question about their mother(father)land?

  86. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 5:03 pm

    Niall

    “Strange for a country with so many public cameras, to say nothing of smartphones, etc…”

    Seems odd indeed. But then again, Ben has recently astonished me that Ukrainian military used 258 people as human shield to protect their jet but has no footage of this. Shall I still trust him?

  87. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 5:04 pm

    Afriend; Maybe you could inform the unaware/uninformed. :)

  88. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Jul, 2014 - 5:10 pm

    Ben

    I really am confused. Trust this but NOT that. Do NOT trust this but trust that. No clear evidence in either cases (no footage as Niall stated). Whom to trust, whom NOT to trust? What is going on? My head is spinning around. I shall put on pink glasses, switch on TV, put RT on and clams myself down. Putin’s brainwashers save me.

  89. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 5:11 pm

    Washington Post is declaring thier journaist has been arrested. He has been detained for questioning, NOT arrested. See how they spin?

    http://www.irna.ir/en/News/2732325/Politic/Official_to_comment_on_arrest_of_ˈWashington_Postˈ_correspondents_after_investigations

  90. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 5:17 pm

  91. “I’ve been searching for video evidence ”

    Why? Do you not believe it’s happening?

    Not really much to see:-

    http://www.euronews.com/2014/07/11/israel-rockets-intercepted-as-hamas-threatens-to-hit-tel-aviv-s-airport/

  92. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 6:17 pm

    The sanctions are squishy attempts to isolate Russia whilst keeping their cash cows healthy. It really is a daunting task.

    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/742338

    Aside from restrictions on Russia’s financial sector, the EC document mentions a ban on EU exports of sensitive technologies to Russia to target three areas: deep-sea drilling, Arctic exploration and shale oil extraction.

    The European Commission may also impose an arms embargo to limit Russian weapons exports to Europe estimated at 3.2 billion euros a year and restrict trade in dual-purpose goods.

  93. @Uzbek

    You wrote “Ukrainian military (unlike Russian military in Chechnya) have avoided heavy use of artillery just because high possible civilian casualties” but it seems HRW disagrees.

    Unguided Grad rockets launched apparently by Ukrainian government forces and pro-government militias have killed at least 16 civilians and wounded many more in insurgent-controlled areas of Donetsk and its suburbs in at least four attacks between July 12 and 21, 2014, Human Rights Watch said today.

    The use of indiscriminate rockets in populated areas violates international humanitarian law, or the laws of war, and may amount to war crimes.

    http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/24/ukraine-unguided-rockets-killing-civilians

  94. I cannot fully understand why is Britain so much in hock with Israel (I am not allowed to say Jews, am I?). As N Mckenzie said earlier “the problem is not the BBC per se, but senior managers & politicians”.

    I fully sympathise with the victims in Gaza, but, I am sorry to say, we cannot live in our own country either. The interests of the Jewish community always prevail to the detriment or the destruction of everybody else. Why?

  95. “ESLO, yes, I’m sure your attempts to undermine and discredit the man who stood up to torture in Uzbekistan demonstrate your excellent moral superiority.”

    You really are an idiot sometimes – just because I disagree on some matters with Craig that doesn’t amount to attempting to undermine or discredit him – I certainly do not disagree with his stance on Uzbekistan or Russia or human rights in general.

  96. Hello Uzbek,

    It is impossible to know how Habbabroken Ben is. He can but dream!

    Definitely not better than sex and barely comparable with a cuppa, Habbabreak is a sanity helper tool for Craig’s blog.

    Habbabreak can make those who annoy you disappear. A virtual FSB if you like.

    I don’t like to think of you two Habbabreaking each other but it’s a freeish world and I am only a simple, open-source, free-love, communist-libertarian coder.

    Isn’t it funny how the American is defending the Russian state and the Russian is defending the American state. Only on Craig Murrays blog!

    Find Habbabreak Here

  97. “ESLO, there are those who criticise diverse abuses, those who concentrate on certain abuses, those who don’t criticise at all, and those who perpetrate abuse. I’ve ranked these in decreasing order of morality. It would seem, by your repeated denigration of their morals, that you’d like those who criticise less than universally to leave the field of debate. ”

    There are also those who criticise certain abuses but then defend the perpetrators of others – they are called hypocrites and such double standards actually demonstrates their lack of interest in defending universal but in forwarding one political position or the other. Such believers in the ends justifying the means whether religious, political or just plain lunatics are the source of most misery in the world’s history.

  98. And thanks for the sound bite Ben. Added to the web site.

  99. “ESLO- So you will castigate as racists and ethnic cleansers those who support the argument outlined in this article posted earlier by Doug the Dog ?”

    Yes happy to do so. Will you also recognise that bigotry and racism is present with Hamas and their more fervent supporters as well?

  100. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    25 Jul, 2014 - 6:43 pm

    Afrend; It’s total Fuckapalypse when cats and dogs learn to live together. :)

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