Boring, Boring, Boring 127


Oh dear. it was bound to come sooner or later. As soon as anybody sticks their head above the parapet to criticise Israel, an attempt is made to slur them as an anti-semite. I now have the notorious Zionist propagandist Jonathan Hoffman on my case.

Hoffman is the Zionists’ equivalent of the Witchfinder-General. In July 2008 he produced a report on “Anti-Semitism on The Guardian Comment is Free”, in which his definition of anti-semites included “Those who question the Zionist aim of a Jewish Homeland”.

http://www.zionismontheweb.org/CommentIsFree_ParliamentASCttee_July08.pdf

This blatant conflation of anti-Zionists with anti-Semites is typical of his methodology. It does not wash. There are a significant minority of anti-Zionist Jews, for one thing. My personal view is that all those now living in Israel and Palestine should be allowed to stay there, in a new secular and race-blind state. I do reject the state of Israel with its racially defined citizenship qualification. That is not an unusual position – Germany was only recently obliged by the EU to abandon citizenship laws based on race.

In 2004 Jonathan Hoffman made this laughable contribution as a submission in the consultation exercise on the BBC Charter:

I want to comment on the BBC’s persistent anti-Israel bias. They have

appointed Malcolm Balen as overall editor of programmes with a Mid-East

content but it has made no difference

.

www.bbccharterreview.org.uk/first_phase_responses/H/Hoffman_Jonathan.rtf

It is, incidentally, interesting that he appears to have the impression that the appointment of Malcolm Balen was supposed to help Israel. Anyone know anything about Mr Balen?

It is worth comparing Hoffman’s complaint about the BBC to the comment by OrwellianUK after the blog entry before this.

Anyway, Hoffman is now onto my case. I have just had the following email exchange with him:

Dear Mr Murray

Are you content that your site is being used to propagate anti-Semitism? :

I am a newcomer to your site. I found it because rense.com linked to your

recent colourfully titled piece on Gordon Brown (though they applied

asterisks where you did not).

I am delighted to find a former member of the British Establishment who holds

the views that you do and also that you clearly take an active interest in the comments left by your readers.

If you feel so inclined, I would be grateful if you might consider giving

your opinion on an issue regarding Israel that troubles me often: why is it that the European nations’ response to Israeli atrocities is so feeble and

half-hearted when, if it were a Muslim country doing the same thing, they would be down on it like a ton of bricks? Is it because, as respected Israeli historian and military adviser Martin van Creveld has revealed, a sizeable proportion of Israel’s nuclear weapons is trained on Europe? Is it because so much of the Western financial system and media is controlled by Zionists? Is it because the Mossad has penetrated the higher echelons of the European political Establishment?

Jonathan Hoffman

Jonathan,

There are many comments on my site that I do not agree with, not only the anti-Jewish ones. There are some very rude comments about me, for example, some completely untrue. There are currently people defending the use of the word “Paki”. I disagree with them too. There have been a number of offensively worded pro-Israel comments, and I have not deleted them. But I tend to the view that freedom of speech is most important, so I almost never delete anything from comments. My own views are the bits of the blog which I have written.

I have only ever deleted, I believe, 36 comments from my site in four years; 2 because they were about children of politicians, and 34 for being anti-semitic. This post from five days ago explained my position:

I have not deleted a single pro-Israeli comment from discussion on these pages, though I disagree profoundly with many. I have deleted three anti-Jewish comments. I should make it plain that I am in profound disagreement with those commenters who conflate Israel with Jews in general. We have had commenters excusing anti-Jewish comments on the grounds Jews are not a race, and positing claims of a world conspiracy of Jews and freemasons. I have only deleted three of these, because in general I believe the suppression of any opinion to be an evil which requires major justification. I find it hard to define the exact line which leads to deletion.

The great John Stuart Mill said it was legitimate to express the opinion that all corn merchants are thieves of the people’s bread; but it was not legitimate to shout the same thing to a howling mob at night carrying torches outside a corn merchant’s house. He was, as ever, right.

So almost any opinion can be expressed here. But I would be grateful if those people who have a serious grudge against Jews in general, would go and express their views on their own websites.

UPDATE

Michael has overstepped the mark by a posting about “Jews with their Satanic Smirks” and then introducing the Protocols of Zion. All of his 31 comments have therefore been deleted.”

In addition I have added numerous comments in dialogue with commenters to the effect that one should not confuse anger at the killings by Israel, with racism against Jews in general.

It is an extraordinary and terribly sad and bad thing that anti-semitism still exists. It is to me genuinely incomprehensible.

But sadly any discussion forum on Israel attracts two kinds of malevolent people.

The first kind are anti-semites.

The second are those who seek to portray as anti-semites anyone who opposes Israel’s appalling actions in Gaza. I rather fear you may be one of that kind of malevolent people, Jonathan.

I have given a fair and full answer to your question. Let me now ask you, are you content with the murder by Israel of so many women, children and old people in Gaza?

Craig Murray


127 thoughts on “Boring, Boring, Boring

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  • Guin

    I am not suprised at Israel banning Arab parties.

    The Palestinians inside Israel are often referred to as a 'demographic timebomb' which will destroy the Jewishness of the State.

    A policy of 'transfer' is one of the measures advocated by the likes of Avigdor Lieberman, the deputy prime minister appointed by Ehud Olmert, who has powerful friends in Washington.

    He has put forward a proposal of a loyalty oath for Palestinians inside Israel, not to their country but to Israel a Jewish state.

    At the Saban Center for Middle East Policy in Washington Lieberman informed American Jewish leaders 'He who is not ready to recognise Israel as a Jewish & Zionist state cannot be a citizen of the country.'

    The government has supported a bill which will revoke citizenship for those participating in 'an act that constitutes a breach of loyalty to the state'.

    Tzipi Livni, foreign minister, has observed that a Palestinian state would be the 'answer' to Israel's Palestinian citizens: 'They cannot ask for the declaration of a Palestinian state while working against the nature of the State of Israel as home unto the Jewish People.'

  • Ed Davies

    "I am surprised that you think it is OK to publish a one-to-one correspondence without asking my permission."

    IANAL, etc, but as I understand it, for a letter (and therefore, I assume, an e-mail) the receiver is under no obligation to keep the contents private in the absence of any prior agreement (though the sender does retain the copyright – but that would only be relevant if the contents actually had any commercial value).

    P.S., I too don't read "Zionist" as meaning "Jewish".

  • Human Being

    Here's a toast to this prick of an anti-Semite, Craig Murrary. May he develop a terminal melanoma, as soon as possible.

  • Ruth

    Israel is a state from the Dark Ages bereft of humanity. It often promotes itself against the Arab states by plugging democracy but not all people living in Israel have rights. It says it's a democracy but limits press freedom. We don't know what's happening in Gaza right now. But we know what's happening on this blog. Each comment from a pro-Zionist contains little logic. Many of the comments smear. Smearing is a common device also used by the secret services in the UK to demean a person but in fact it is of very little use here. It damages those who use it. Disrupting websites damages those who do it for it just shows how far from a democracy the perpetrators, whether it be the UK or Israel, are.

  • Chuck Unsworth

    Who are these clowns? 'Anti-Semitic' is the same as 'Anti-Israeli'? Really? Is Judaism a nationality? Astounding!

  • Craig

    Human Being

    You are not the most pleasant representative of the species. The fact I am not going to delete your extremely unpleasant comment is further evidence of my commitment to free speech.

    I am genuinely confused as to what I have said or done which you claim is anti-semitic. Could you kindly provide a quote or example?

  • Lev Bronstein

    I think Hoffman would do well to stop pretending to know so much about things he actual knows nothing about. The terms "Semite" and "Semitic" refer to not only Jews, but also Samaritans, Arabs, Kurds, Ethiopians, Assyrians, and Maltese. The idea that someone who opposed Israel's murderous policies and believes that Palestinian Arabs are entitled to the same rights as everyone else is "anti-Semitic" is not only ignorant, it's stupid.

    If I were your father, Mr Hoffman, I'd be ashamed to call you my son.

  • George Dutton

    "The Clean Break Doctrine"

    "What we have witnessed in Gaza since December 27 is the implementation of one crucial part of an Anglo-American strategic doctrine for redrawing the map of the Middle East (within a broader context), known as the "Clean Break."…
    http://tinyurl.com/79bzrw

  • Nazi hunter

    If you were anyone's father, Mr Bronstein, you would be locked up for child abuse because you are a racist halfwit who tries to belittle antisemitism by changing its definition.

    The word specifically applies to hatred of Jews.

  • writerman

    Craig,

    How odd. There I was thinking I'd made a valiant attempt to come to your aid, not that you need it, and make a blistering attack on the rent-an-apologist for genocide crowd, taking them and their ideology head on, and it's vanished into the either again. Shame, as it was calculated to make them go absolutely apeshit with anger. One of the best comments I've ever written I believe. How strange. I wonder where it could be?

  • writerman

    Craig,

    What I meant to say was that I was deliberately setting myself up as a target to draw their fire and give you a bit of a break. Why should you have all the fun? Not that this rabid, partisan, lunacy is really very funny, considering the criminal tragedy that's occuring in Gaza. Funny as in grotesque. I find the use of the word etiquette particularly amusing.

  • researcher

    Freedom of Speech limited to predefined opinions is not freedom of speech.

    The "antisemitism" slur is a propaganda device used to smear critics of Zionist gangsters, war criminals and talmudic supremacism advocating the concept of a chosen race. They try to hide behind ordinary Jews, cynically diverting hate towards innocent Jews. Caveat emptor. Anti-semitism is a total misnomer. There is nothing racist about exposing the effectively very anti-Jewish Zionist ideology and abuses.

    Jews should be proud that "the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews", according to Joel Stein in
    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/la-oe-

  • researcher

    When you don't like the message, attack the messenger. Organised propaganda shills exposing their sad life by showing their bitterness in baseless ad-hominem attacks.

  • amk

    "If you were anyone's father, Mr Bronstein, you would be locked up for child abuse"

    Lock up someone because they disagree with you? The eliminationist impulse, the calling card of fascism.

    "belittle antisemitism by changing its definition."

    Including criticism of Zionism in the definition of "antisemitism" belittles real bigotry.

    By the way, your name "nazi hunter" can be interpreted two ways. One is what you intended, the other more accurate.

  • nazi hunter

    Well Craig Murray, you must be really proud of yourself, providing a nest for Nazis. Much better than lording it in that Embassy in Uzbekistan. I just hope they can buy lots of copies of the new book. Does it have lots of cartoons from Der Stuermer in it?

  • oulwan

    How pathetic but predictable. I've been opposing Israel's utterly barbaric attack on Gaza all over the internet and I haven't had an anti-Semitic thought in my life. I'm not anti-Jew. I don't even think about "Jews" when I think of Israel. "Jonathan" and the rest can talk till they're blue in the face and it still won't make me anti-Semitic. We all know the first line of defense when Israel is criticised is to try to put critics on the back foot by yelling "anti-Semitic" — and I've had it up to my eyeballs. You can stuff it!

  • Ruth

    Nazi hunter is very vindictive. I wonder if he/she is an associate of Spicer/secret services?

  • spot

    I remember this post from The Guardian.

    'maimon

    I think Israel has exercised restraint ever since they made the bomb and didn't drop it on Europe in revenge for the Holocaust. Instead of supporting their enemies, you europeans might want to make friends with the Israelis – just in case they choose to remember what you did to them.'

    We know what you are up against, Craig.

    Nazi Hunter exemplifies it.

  • Chris Close

    I think Craig has the title exactly right.

    These people are boring boring boring and poisonous.

    The Israelis are committing war crimes and should be punished as War criminals.

  • lwtc247

    Ho Ho!

    The Zioslime must be quaking in their boots now. They've all but exhausted their propaganda chest – AND IT HASN'T WORKED… ONE LITTLE BIT, and it's not just here either, it's happening across the whole world!

    How the beads of sweat break out when they realise their orgies of slaughter (not Raphel/Olmert types of orgy please note) aren't met with the same indifference as before.

    With each savage round the Ziofascists mete out against ordinary run of the mill innocents, the more the onion skins are peeled back to reveal Zionisms putrid core.

    As Craig beautifully said "Zionism is Bullshit" 🙂

    I Wonder what the group "Jews Against Zionism" would rename themselves as if some of the Ziofascists here had their way.

  • Lev Bronstein

    Nazi hunter, as a matter of fact you're wrong: the term derives from a refutation of the 19th century writings of Ernest Renan about the mastery of the Aryan civilization over that of the Semitic peoples and other races. Renan, however, not only included Arabs, Ethiopians, and other Middle Easterners under this term, but expressly REJECTED the idea that Ashkenazi Jews were part of the Semitic race. He instead thought that Jews were an incomplete race scattered across Europe in an archipelago of tiny ghettoes, no longer either truly Semitic, nor yet fully assimilated into Aryan culture.

    You, too, need to learn some facts before you shoot your mouth off.

  • Friend of Regina

    "Three Christmas', Hanukkah's and Haj's ago I was working in Israel for one month on a video project. We stayed in the homes of Jews and Palestinians. It was one of the most profound times of my life as one perception after another was torn apart by the reality that lay before us. One newfound truth was that the new city of Jerusalem (as opposed to the walled ancient city at the interior of the metropolitan area) was much like any American city in that the primary focus of Hanukkah was not religious rites, rather holiday sales at the Jerusalem Mall. That's when I learned that 60% of the Israeli population were agnostic. This was told to us by our Jewish hosts. My belief that Israel was created for purposes of religious freedom was blown."

    h-ttp://-consciousmedianetwork.blogspot.com/

    {remove hyphens)

  • nobody

    PS. If anyone wants to get huffy and accuse me of anti-Semitism I offer the following perfectly valid reasons –

    1 – I didn’t do it and no such thing happened. (Just quietly, they probably did it themselves. They do that doncha know)

    2 – I didn’t do it, but they were shooting at me so I had no choice.

    3 – I did do it but since the UN failed to tell me otherwise I had to shell that building with forty civilians in it.

    4 – Well not that building. I was actually shelling another building where they most certainly were shooting at me (and I defy anyone to prove otherwise) and it was all a big accident.

    5 – Anyway, I’m the victim and as the aggrieved party I can do no wrong. And besides, as a Caucasian, I assert my right to reject all criticism of me as anti-Semitism.

  • Tom Kennedy

    writerman:

    I've gotten into the habit of preparing my comments in Notepad and then pasting them just in case they disappear. Maybe Craig will eventually use different software to manage this blog?

  • nobody

    Oh dear, it's just like the bad old days on indymedia. Nazihunter is that really you? By his endless ad hominems ye shall know him.

    I'm reminded by this debate of the school debating club. There, the greatest sin was to have the whole thing end up as definitions debate. This being due to the fact that no debate could take place since no one would be able to agree on what it was we were talking about. Which is bad if the point is to have a debate. But it's good if the point is to kill a debate and just turn the whole thing into a pointless shit-slinging blatherfest. And since the Zionists could never win any debate on facts, it's blatherfest here we come. Every time. Always the same.

    But why don't we do the definitions thing anyway? It passes the time. Mr Bronstein above is perfectly correct. Pretty much the whole Levant qualifies as Semitic. And, (with the irony running rampant) the only people of the Levant who aren't Semitic are the Ashkenazi Johnny-come-lately's, all of whom came originally from Khazaria in the Caucasus (by way of Russia, Poland, Germany etc). Which is to say, they're Caucasian. Oh alright, arguably they're Turkic since that's where they started out. But either way they're no more Semitic than I am.

    So – Between a Palestinian shooting one of his Caucasian Ashkenazi occupiers, and an Ashkenazi lobbing white phosphorus into the Gazan concentration camp (Biggest in the world! Bigger even than the Warsaw Ghetto!), where does the anti-Semitism lay?

    So – Between the Ashkenazi authorities of the 50's who dragged Sephardim kids (and only Sephardim kids) out of school on the pretext of ringworm and blasted them with insane doses of radiation, (no really, google 'israel ringworm scandal'), and the adult Sephardim survivors who had lots of uncomplimentary things to say about the Israeli government and their refusal to compensate for, or even acknowledge, what was done to them, who was the anti-Semite?

    So – Between the Ashkenazi Israeli government failing to pay the Ashkenazi Holocaust survivors in Israel any of the monies put into various Israeli banks by Germany, and the survivors who, sick of their penury and of being ignored for decades, complained that the Holocaust survivors in Germany were treated better than they were and shame on the Israeli government, who was the most anti-Semitic?

    First correct answer gets a free ticket to Gaza. And for the runner up – two free tickets! Good luck!

  • nobody

    PS. If anyone wants to get huffy and accuse me of anti-Semitism I offer the following perfectly valid reasons –

    1 – I didn't do it and no such thing happened. (Just quietly, they probably did it themselves. They do that doncha know)

    2 – I didn't do it, but they were shooting at me so I had no choice.

    3 – I did do it but since the UN failed to tell me otherwise I had to shell that building with forty civilians in it.

    4 – Well not that building. I was actually shelling another building where they most certainly were shooting at me (and I defy anyone to prove otherwise) and it was all a big accident.

    5 – Anyway, I'm the victim and as the aggrieved party I can do no wrong. And besides, as a Caucasian, I assert my right to reject all criticism of me as anti-Semitism.

  • nobody

    PPS Actually Ehud Olmert told me to say it. I was in the middle of a speech in Philadelphia and he called me mid-speech and of course I quit whatever I was doing and rushed over and he told me to tell Condoleeza Rice to tell the UN that it's not true that Zionists run America. So clearly Zionists do not run America or any other thing. And anyone who says otherwise, like whoever it was that said, "We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." are obviously anti-Semites. Oh now I remember, it was Ariel Sharon. Bloody anti-Semite!

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