It is four years now since I was sacked as Ambassador for opposing MI6’s use of intelligence gained from torture and passed to MI6 by the CIA under the UK/US intelligence sharing agreement.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/documents/Telegram.pdf
Yet with incredible hypocrisy, four years after I exposed the whole evidence, David Miliband continues to trot out the barefaced lie that the UK does not support or condone torture.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/feb/05/guantanamo-miliband-torture
even while referring to yet another case that proves beyond doubt that the UK receives torture intelligence from the CIA.
Meanwhile parliament continues to behave as though this is a terrible thing they knew nothing about. I am still furious that I was called to testify before both the European Parliament and the Council of Europe, while the British parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee refused to accept my evidence.
None so blind as those who will not see. The stinking hypocrisy on this issue extends beyond New Labour.
No I mean the 1967 borders prior to the 6 day war of June 1967.
Does Muslim have a religious and ethnic meaning? No, because it is a religion of many ethnicities. So is Judaism, as posters on these boards have pointed out countless times. “The Jewish race” was a Hitlerism, lest we forget. To say “Fucking Muslims” is exactly the same as saying “Fucking Jews” in this context. Neither is acceptable. I hope you can all agree on that.
I’m sure we can all agree on that. Both are equally distasteful, neither deserve imprisonment.
Semantics isn’t as simple a subject many seem to think.
Words have meanings which exist in dictionaries, however this doesn’t mean that that is how these words are understood and used in the real world.
Then there’s the problem of context. The context the words are used in, which can and does radically alter the meaning of words. Words used in and out of context is a tricky area.
For example, if one sees two Israeli’s having sex on the beach and one says to one’s friend, “Fucking Jews.” This isn’t necessarily a racist statement. It’s just an utterance. It might even be inaccurate. The couple on the beach might not be Jews, they might be tourists. One might have asked a question “Fucking Jews?” This isn’t a racist utterance either.
All I’m trying to point out is that one has to see words in the context they are used, before one can venture an opinion as to the absolute accuracy of their meaning.
“Fucking Jews!” Doesn’t necessarily mean, “I hate all the Jews!” It could mean I have contempt for the Jews pilots bombing civilians in Gaza. It’s clearly intemperate language, words fired and full of anger, but it’s not proof of anti-Jewish racism. A blanket statement referring to all Jews in all situations.
It’s highly debatable, in law, whether shouting “fucking Jews” is incitement to racial hatred at all. One can argue that it is, but one could argue the opposite. Neither “fucking” or “Jews” are in themselves racist words. Even joined together they are not, but this is complex and debatable, and this probably isn’t the best place to discuss semantics calmly and rationally, as too many emotiongs are involved.
Hallelujah!
Come on Craig – you know that untruths under Bush would become aired when another party took on the job.
It is sad and amusing the way that the Rupert Murdoch press have rediscovered the issue of privacy, but why make new news when the old news that was ‘untrue’ under Bush and Blair was true to start with.
I have said “fucking Jews” on occasion and I am Jewish.
Does that make you a “self-hating” Jew spot?
Nope.
However, if self-hating is the same as Non-Zionist then many people would say ‘Yep’.
I think “self-hating Jews” is the term usually used by Zionists to describe non-Zionist Jews. It is when they appear on Newsnight anyway.
‘Fucking Newsnight’.
(I have nothing against Newsnight, in general, but have certainly been known to rage against the TV machine when I have seen certain people supporting WP bombings of children.)
From Wiki:
A Muslim (Arabic: ?????), pronounced /’m?sl?m/, is an adherent of the religion of Islam.
No mention of race. So to say “Fucking Muslims” is exactly the same as saying “Fucking Jews” is wrong as Jews are an ethnoreligious group and in saying “Fucking Jews” one might be referring to the ethnic part.
Not sure if that’s quite correct Ruth. My understanding is that the great majority of Jews are European in origin and that the “ethno” side of things is a bit over-fucking-stated, for political reasons.
It would be interesting to ask a Zionist what terms we might safely use to refer negatively to Israel that wouldn’t elicit an automatic smear of racism.
I would not approve of shouting “Fucking Jews”. I think it is important in fact, not just in form, th distinguis between Jews, Israelis and Zionists.
But did he really shout fucking Jews? What is the evidence?
Craig, the news story can be found here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5693687.ece
The police certainly seem to be taking it seriously enough so probably have witnesses. It does seem an odd thing for a diplomat to say though.
Ruth, I am from eastern Europeans who were pogrommed out of Russia.
A good friend is an Indian-Jew who is convinced that HIS family are the only descendents of the REAL Jews who were pogrommed out of Judea.
He looks like a coloured Woody Allen.
There are only 4 Indian-Jewish families in my country.
Both of us have said ‘Fucking Jews’ at times.
I suppose, that is ok for us?
When I had no money to pay for a beer he also said ‘fucking Scots’ and I just laughed. In fact, we laughed together as we are both Scottish.
It happened in reverse one time.
Being very orthodox he wouldn’t carry any money on shabbos and I had to pay the fare on the trams – after persuading him that God wasn’t worried about a gentile tram driver working.
‘Lucky Froom Bastard’, I thought.
Ruth, do you not realise that preaching ‘one race, right or wrong’ you are adopting the language of Goebells?
“The Most Rancid Hypocrisy”
“He wrote to his MP, Emily Thornberry, but got no reply until today when she sent a letter to the Guardian ?” a somewhat patronising note, suggesting that this was indeed a civil liberties issue and that the staff from the nearby local Labour headquarters should be able to come and go “without being stolen from and intimidated”…
http://tinyurl.com/cadbqc
“stolen from and intimidated”
That is what New Labour do to the people of the world,and to us the british people everyday.
Under nulabor, citizens are guilty by virtue of accusation. The imposition of sanction and prejudice is predicated upon arbitrary labelling a citizen as a potential threat to nulabor. Abuse is then applied ruthlessly, relentlessly, and without limit until the threat is either controlled or destroyed.
This nulabor government is corrupt. The nulabor corruption is absolute, lead from the top down, imposed through all tiers of social and government control, down to street level. Being rotten to the core and from the core, everything it touches it taints. Having neither the ability nor inclination to correct itself, outside intervention is indicated.
nulabor has declared war upon its citizens, and in doing so it is the government itself that has become the enemy of the state.
The last time this happened, heads rolled-literally.
February 24, 2009
“Former President and War Criminal George W Coming to Canada, March 17”
“Section 35(1) (a) states that a foreign national is inadmissible on grounds of violating human or international rights or for committing an act outside Canada that constitutes an offence referred to in sections 4 to 7 of the Crimes against Humanity and War Crimes Act. Also inadmissiable (s.35 (1)(b)) are persons who are, or were, senior officials “in the service of a government that, in the opinion of the Minister, engages or has engaged in gross human rights violations… ”
http://tinyurl.com/dd8r9m