It is four years now since I was sacked as Ambassador for opposing MI6’s use of intelligence gained from torture and passed to MI6 by the CIA under the UK/US intelligence sharing agreement.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/documents/Telegram.pdf
Yet with incredible hypocrisy, four years after I exposed the whole evidence, David Miliband continues to trot out the barefaced lie that the UK does not support or condone torture.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/feb/05/guantanamo-miliband-torture
even while referring to yet another case that proves beyond doubt that the UK receives torture intelligence from the CIA.
Meanwhile parliament continues to behave as though this is a terrible thing they knew nothing about. I am still furious that I was called to testify before both the European Parliament and the Council of Europe, while the British parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee refused to accept my evidence.
None so blind as those who will not see. The stinking hypocrisy on this issue extends beyond New Labour.
Of ccourse nothing is authorised in writing or signed for. It’s all done on a ‘nod and a wink, look no hands’ basis so that if any allegations of misconduct or illegality come to light those involved can say “I never knew nuffink, honest, Guv.”
As someone who grew up during WW2 and was proud to be British, I never thought I’d be as ashamed as I now am in my 80s of the moral depravity to which my own country has repeatedly stooped in this first decade of the 21st century.
Now that people are beginning to realise the depth of corruption of our own government, shouldn’t those with a vested interest in righting wrongs, apply their thoughts to defining what is acceptable and what is not acceptable regarding insurrection?
One prime cause of our democracy failing was the virtual elimination of an effective opposition in the 1997 election. I fear that the next election will swing to the other extreme, whereby we will have a Tory ‘one party state’.
In order to restore some semblance of checks and balance, necessary for effective democracy, is to make any tyrannical government of the day, aware of a set of moral and ethical conditions, which if transgressed would give the people the right to insurrection, for the good of all. In the absence of an effective parliamentary opposition, we the people need to step into the breach.
It’s not just the lies and behaviour of the politicians: it’s the mainstream news media. The way the BBC “broke” this “story” was utterly surreal. Surely BBC commentators have read Murder in Samarkand and know what’s really going on? For the first time in my life I now feel as if I am living in a 1984-type state, where the official truth from politicians and the mainstream media bears no resemblance to what we learn from books and the internet.
They are right: the UK doesn’t support or condone torture – NOT ON THE RECORD!
What is torture going to achieve? Israel has just massacred Palestinian civilians in cold blood – a new generation of “terrorists” will rise up out of the ashes, and the violence will continue for another generation.
But that’s assuming Israel wants peace, which it doesn’t. Jewish terrorists began by first killing the British, and then when they had control of Palestine, started slaughtering the Palestinians, while simultaneously drowning them in a sea of Jews from outside the region.
One Palestinian “terrorist” was born after Israel took away his parent’s orange grove, forcing him to grow up in grinding poverty.
For those who haven’t heard, Obama has come out in support of Bush’s torture regime:
“The Justice Department stood up in court today and said that it would continue the Bush policy of invoking state secrets to hide the reprehensible history of torture, rendition and the most grievous human rights violations committed by the American government. This is not change. This is definitely more of the same,” said ACLU Executive Director, Anthony Romero.
Meanwhile, conditions at Guantanamo Bay detention centre have worsened under Obama’s watch, with dozens of captives being tied to chairs and brutally beaten for refusing to eat.
I remember the Americans complaining about how the Japanese treated prisoners of war – now look at how the U.S. is behaving!
Obama is genuine, all right – a genuine hypocrite!
Researcher – I’m not sure what your aim is with this post. You print the comments of various people. Do you support these views? If so you are sailing close to the wind. This diplomat (and his outburst was witnessed by many people” allegedly shouted “Fucking Israelis, fucking Jews”, and said that all Israeli soldiers “should be wiped off the map.” This amounts to an incitement to religious hatred and carries a prison term of up to seven years. Imagine if he had seen a report of the recent beheading of the Polish citizen in Pakistan and had shouted “Fucking Pakistanis, Fucking Muslims” – would that constitute “free speech” in your book or would it be an incitement to hatred? The two are exact parallels. It seems to me you are being disingenuous here and I would welcome your comments. What is more worrying is that a senior diplomat from the Foreign Office should a) hold such views and b) be stupid enough to air them in a public place.
Researcher – I’m not sure what your aim is with this post. You print the comments of various people. Do you support these views? If so you are sailing close to the wind. This diplomat (and his outburst was witnessed by many people” allegedly shouted “Fucking Israelis, fucking Jews”, and said that all Israeli soldiers “should be wiped off the map.” This amounts to an incitement to religious hatred and carries a prison term of up to seven years. Imagine if he had seen a report of the recent beheading of the Polish citizen in Pakistan and had shouted “Fucking Pakistanis, Fucking Muslims” – would that constitute “free speech” in your book or would it be an incitement to hatred? The two are exact parallels. It seems to me you are being disingenuous here and I would welcome your comments. What is more worrying is that a senior diplomat from the Foreign Office should a) hold such views and b) be stupid enough to air them in a public place.
Hi Craig, you have been hit by GIYUS.
http://tinyurl.com/39t4a3
‘Don’t delete their comments unless they really are particularly offensive. That just makes it look like you haven’t got an answer to them. Leave their comments up so we can all have a good laugh at them.’
You have done very well in responding to ‘It’.
“you haven’t got an answer to them”.
Quite so. It’s hard to defend incitement to religious and racial hatred.
“Quite so. It’s hard to defend incitement to religious and racial hatred.”
February 11, 2009
“UN moves to charge Israel with war crimes”
“Ethical and moral questions linger even among Israeli peace activists over the destruction and civilian deaths wrought by the immense Tel Aviv firepower employed in Gaza.The United Nations moves to set up a commission to look into Israeli war crimes and respond to its human rights violations in Gaza”…
http://tinyurl.com/c3s47u
Merkin, they flood the board, drowning precious comments, and drive away good people with personal attacks, foul language and intimidation. Plus, hundreds of them are paid by the US military and secret services, making their propaganda aggressive commercial Spam.
“Eddie” is a Zionist shill and a notorious liar.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/01/boring_boring_b.html
So I take it from those feeble-minded responses, which utterly fail to address the outrageous outburst from Rowan Laxton, that you do support incitement to racial and religious hatred. Shame on you. Perhaps one day you will grow up and realise the hypocrisy of your views.
What made Laxton’s comments anti-semitic was that he shouted ‘**** Jews’. If he had stuck to swearing at the State of Israel or its citizens, it might be offensive to some or unbecoming a diplomat, but not racist.
Some religious people earnestly believe that Richard Dawkins insights religious hatred, by undermining the rational of their credences.
Should Richard Dawkins go to jail for seven years (where he may be systematically raped)?
Laxton’s cv. “HM Diplomatic Service (1993-); Deputy Head, South Asia Group, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, London (2007-). Formerly: Deputy Head of Mission, Kabul (2001-03); Head of Chancery, Islamabad (1997-2000).”
So a senior British diplomat who is a raving ant-Semite, who is unable to control himself in public (he had to be restrained by several bystanders) and who should be sacked from their job for stupidity. A pal of Craig perhaps?
If Mr Laxton had allegedly shouted “f***ing French, f***ing Christians”, would he have been arrested? Of course not. We have double standards.
I think it is ludicrous to interpret Mr Laxton’s outburst as either “anti-Semitic” or “incitement to racial and religious hatred”. It was simply an emotional response to the horrors he was witnessing on TV.
The fact that someone is incensed by the actions of a particular religious group or their representatives does not mean they ill-disposed to that religion per se.
Had I been alive during WW2 I’m sure I would have had cause to shout “fucking Nazis, fucking Germans!”. It wouldn’t have made me anti-Catholic.
All this nit-picking about language-use is just a distraction from the real crime: the sickening blood sacrifice of hundreds of innocent civilians in Gaza.
Fucking Israelis! Fucking Jews!
Craig. That’s three of my posts that havent made it now. May I have an explanation as to why?
MJ, with the greatest respect, you are a twat. The Nazis were not a race nor were they a religion. Some nazis and Germans are catholics some are not. By your logic “Fucking Pakistanis, Fucking Muslims” in response to a beheading video(see above) would be ok would it ? You either support laws which prohibit racist and religious inctitement or you don’t. You can’t it have it both ways. Just to be clear. The Jewish race/religion is not Israel and Israel is not the Jewish race/religion. Osama bin Laden does not represent all muslims. The fact that Catholic priests have been child abusers does not mean all christians are child abusers. Do you understand the stupidity of your argument? Chomsky is a Jew.
As I said Eddie, all this nit-picking about language-use is just a distraction from the real crime.
It’s not nit picking about language, it’s about incitement to hatred, which is a criminal offence. Not only that, but the alleged offence was committed by a senior diplomat working for the British government. Your pals at media-lens accept that it is is anti-semitic. Why can’t you? Why can’t you defend your views?
It obviously wasn’t “incitement to hatred”. It was an emotional response to horror. The “fucking Jews” bit could be construed as anti-Jewish, particularly if he had a history of impugning particular religions or racial groups, but given his job this is most unlikely. It was just an emotional response to unbearable horror. Inadvisable certainly and I’m sure he regrets it, but he wasn’t speaking in a professional capacity.
You yourself Eddie show clear signs of Islamophobia, which is itself a form of anti-Semiticism because all Arabs are semites. I don’t however interpret this as racism because I don’t really think you are a racist. The problem is that any criticism of Israel these days is met by its apologists with the cry of “ant-Semitic”, which is pathetic and simply doesn’t wash.
eddie wrote:
“Why can’t you defend your views?”
That would be a fair thing to ask if you supported total freedom of speech; but it’s a bit ironic coming from somebody who would stymie some of those words and views to suit their sensibilities.
Is a man complete without all his freedom? If words offend you then you should respond in kind. If the system locks you up for your words, the system is engaging in physical tort, therefore the citizen should respond in kind.
Don’t be so silly, Eddie. It wasn’t “incitement to hatred”, or “anti-semitic”. It was extreme disgust, strongly expressed and justifiably so, prompted by the atrocious behaviour in Gaza of the Israeli government and their military.
You sometimes refer to yourself as “liberal” and “democratic”. There is nothing of either in your support for laws which inhibit the free statement of honest opinion, however misguided, about race, religion, politics, or any other topic. You would doubtless to be the first to complain loudly if your own opinions were suppressed.
Ludicrous. I repeat, according to your logic “Fucking Pakistanis, Fucking Muslims” uttered by a senior diplomat in a public gym would be acceptable? That would be honest free speech would it? Please answer the question and stop wriggling. You are unbelievable. For the record, I support a two state solution in Palestine based on the 1967 borders. I accept also that Israel is an unsatisfactory democracy that has probably commited war crimes in Gaza and those responsible should be held to account. I also believe that hamas is a thoroughtoly nasty organisation that holds views alien to liberal democracy, and has also committed crimes against Israelis. I think all of those views are reasonable. If you think that it is reasonable for a senior diplomat to shout “Fucking Jews” in a public place then you are further gone than I thought.
Ludicrous. I repeat, according to your logic “Fucking Pakistanis, Fucking Muslims” uttered by a senior diplomat in a public gym would be acceptable? That would be honest free speech and completely legal would it? If so why has this man been arrested and bailed?
It would be helpful if you answered the question and stop wriggling. You are unbelievable. For the record, I support a two state solution in Palestine based on the 1967 borders. I accept also that Israel is an unsatisfactory democracy that has probably committed war crimes in Gaza and those responsible should be held to account. I also believe that hamas is a thoroughly nasty organisation that holds views alien to liberal democracy, and has also committed crimes against Israelis. I think all of those views are reasonable. If you don’t and if you think that it is reasonable for a senior British diplomat to shout “Fucking Jews” in a public place then you are further gone than I thought! Dear me.
Sorry Eddie, what was the question?
I suspect that if an off-duty diplomat said “fucking Pakistanis, fucking Muslims” in a gym we would never hear about it.
“…based on the 1967 borders…”? Do you mean the pre-1967 borders? Surely you don’t think that Israel should have Sinai, the Golan Heights, the West Bank, and Gaza?
May be Mr Laxton did not refer to the religious aspect of the word, Jew, when he shouted, ‘fucking Jews”. For surely ‘Jew’ has both a religious and ethnic meaning.
This is what it says in Wiki;
A Jew (Hebrew: ???”???”???, Yehudi (sl.); ???”???”???, Yehudim (pl.); Ladino: ?’???”??, Djudio (sl.); ?’???”???, Djudios (pl.); Yiddish: ????”, Yid (sl.); ????”?, Yidn (pl.))[3] is a member of the Jewish people, an ethnoreligious group originating from the Israelites or Hebrews of the ancient Middle East. The Jewish people and the religion of Judaism are strongly interrelated,…..
How can it be proved that he was referring to the religious part of the word?
In order for somebody to be accused of inciting hate, shouldn’t there be some indication that they intended to change someone else’s attitude?
If Laxton was shouting at the TV, then who else was he talking to?
lwtc247
sorry, i really don’t know. Nothing we are doing to block you.