Gladstone Was Right 62


My MA thesis was entitled “Midlothian and Gladstone”. Here is an extract from one of Gladstone’s Midlothian campaign speeches, in Dalkeith, while the Second Afghan War was raging.

Those hill tribes had committed no real offence against us. We, in the pursuit of our political objects, chose to establish military positions in their country. If they resisted, would not you have done the same? … The meaning of the burning of the village is, that the women and the children were driven forth to perish in the snows of winter … Is that not a fact ?” for such, I fear, it must be reckoned to be ?” which does appeal to your hearts as women … which does rouse in you a sentiment of horror and grief, to think that the name of England, under no political necessity, but for a war as frivolous as ever was waged in the history of man, should be associated with consequences such as these?

There could be no clearer indication of how far we have diminished as a nation. Remember, Gladstone was campaigning in opposition to become PM again, for a third time. No senior politician would ever dare today to say:

If they resisted, would not you have done the same?

Anyone who suggested today that the Afghans have a right to resist foreign occupation would be drowned out in screams of “Wooton Basset” and the false, flatulent patriotism of newspaper proprietors and editors sat on their well-padded arses in comfortable offices,

Gladstone won both Midlothian and the general election. But there are no politicians of anything approaching his stature today. Charlie Kennedy actually understood what Liberalism is; Nick Clegg has neither courage nor prinicple.


Leave a comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

62 thoughts on “Gladstone Was Right

1 2 3
  • jives

    Good quote Craig.

    Oh yes indeed we are certainyl diminished.

    The shower of incompetents and criminals now “running”(into the ground) this country are despicable.

  • anno

    The trouble with the Gladstone quote is that that is what it is, a quote. I went to Westminster School with the sons of diplomats and politicians and it was perfectly clear to me that the history and modern languages they were studying was to enable them to serve up the same old British hypocrisy for another generation. This country should be put on the compost heap, allowed to rot down, and spread as an example of evil tyranny for other nations NOT to follow.

    The fine words of diplomats and politicians have not succeeded in deterring the evil actions of my generation. In fact they have become exponentially worse. We are an evil, grasping military machine which is camouflaged by the fine words of duplicitous statesmen, and we always have been.

  • anno

    The reason why the battle of the Bradford election described in the play resulted in 17,000 votes to Jack Straw and 2,000 to Craig, is because my Muslim brothers have seen it all before. I’m not even remotely saying that Craig is equivalent to Straw, but without the bribes. I’m saying that the Muslim community remains unconvinced of the ability of an Englishman of even the highest integrity to deliver anything except injustice, war, torture and poverty on the actual ground.

    This cynicism is re-inforced today by the propaganda of the BBC about the altruism of our presence in Afghanistan.

    ‘If they resisted, would you not have done the same?’ Certain countries do shelter asylum seekers who have resisted oppression, but in this country asylum is conditional on renouncing that resistance. You may stay here provided that you completely accept our rape of Iraq or Palestine or Somalia, or Pakistan. You may protest with fine words and demonstrations, but the second you confirm your words by action, you are clapped in jail or sent home.

    Our fine words on Craig’s blog remind me of the neo-classical age. ‘Nymph of this grot…..and somewhat loudly sweep the string.’ Our leaders have locked us into a sentimental fantasy in which even if Gladstone was right, it is his rightness that is causing the problem. It is just a waking dream in the violent and bankcrupt reality of UKUSIS brutality.

  • john

    Good piece of work Craig–the quotation is most apt.

    In Gladstone’s day the Zionist had little power and it was mainly British Imperialist adventurers, who started wars for profit–see the Boer war 1899–1902, for an especially good example.

    Nowadays, “Corporate” globalism means military business throughout the world for war, reconstruction and markets. See how closely Halliburton follows the carnage and chaos of the war train. The added cherry is subjection of nations to capitalist elites.

  • anno

    You know that one billion pounds a week Gordon Brown is spending extra for the Afghan surge. Did he get a thrill? Was it worth it? Don’t they do virtual reality invasions for bloodthirsty politicians on their last legs?

  • tony_opmoc

    “I said ‘get me President Bush on the phone’. They said he was in the middle of giving a speech in Philadelphia. I said I didn’t care. ‘I need to talk to him now’. He got off the podium and spoke to me.”I told him the United States could not vote in favour. It cannot vote in favour of such a resolution. He immediately called the secretary of state and told her not to vote in favour.”

    I was well aware of the influence in the US, but totally naive about the extent of it in the UK, even after seeing Peter Oborne’s Dispatches on Channel 4

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/16/israel-friends-lobby-uk-politicians

    I now find out more about the detail of high level UK political decisions, even including personal letters from the likes of someone mentioned above from Israeli websites, where they are bragging about their power and influence.

    Not only that, but I now find that my own MP is not a Friend Of “Any other Country In The World”, but is right up there near the top of the bleedin Tree.

    At least a founder member had the guts to resign, but only because he was being hounded for one word of criticism, and he still sucks up to them even after resigning.

    The whole thing makes me puke.

    Not only has my Country been betrayed, but I feel personally betrayed.

    There is no one to vote for, and you cannot say a word, or you get bent over and shafted.

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/

    Tony

  • anno

    John. ‘In Gladstone’s day, the Zionist had little power…’

    Okay, in the Victorian era Jewish hopes of recapturing Palestine are only a dream, a project in the planning, which would necessitate the breaking up of the Ottoman Caliphate, the real purpose of World War I.

    In the meantime what about those British Imperialist adventurers? Were they really inspired by greed and patriotism?

    I think there’s a case for highlighting a double entendre in Craig’s extract from Gladstone – as he pornographises his audience with the sexual excitement of vulnerable women, fleeing from the security of their Muslim fortified dwellings, while their menfolk are held down under vastly superior British fire-power. The same pornography that we saw in Iraq at the hands of US soldiers, of humiliating the Muslims by raping their women, sons and daughters under overwhelming siege.

    Tony, forget the websites of Zionist greed and power. What about the websites that highlight the British troops’ triumph as they force their way into Iraqi households, and force their menfolk to agree while they rape their women in turns?

    And here is Gladstone, bastard-hypocrite of his age, masturbating his audience with crusading glory over the weakness of the enemy, the ease of capturing the spoils of lust, AND AT THE SAME TIME, being a pillar of Victorian morality in front of his Queen and country.

    Muslims do not build up massive weapons systems and nuclear arsenals like the West, because unlike the West they are not planning to overrun their neighbours and the rest of the world. Their defence in the last resort is hastily improvised roadside bombs.

    As I say, the wars of the last decade with the internet have shone an unwelcome light on war. The victims of British aggression never forgot, but the British themselves never got to hear, about the sexual humiliation of Muslims committed in war. ( except recent revelations about British treatment of African slaves ) This speech of Gladstone’s is evidence that politicians of the time knew what was going on under the surface of Victorian hypocrisy. Of the two, I think I prefer Jack Straw.

  • anno

    Morning Campers. Anyone around?

    Just listened to Economics Professor Neil Ferguson on Radio 4, who mentioned the monopoly of power through banking by the Rothschilds in the post war financial crises of the 1820’s.

    He said that the debt crises were solved by the industrial revolution and the growth of the empire.

    Is that what Blair and Brown were planning when they signed up to Iraq and Afghanistan? Is it not the case that the UK has put its trust in military and technological expansion?

    Let me tell you, my Gas and Electric bills last quarter were £35 and £45 respectively, because I live in a small house and I benefit from my neighbours’ central heating. There is no future in wasteful expansion of human accommodation and transport, unless you can get some cheap oil to heat yourself and whizz round the world. The future is insulation, which Gordon Brown has consistently refused to invest in, along with idiot Hilary Benn. Why have they taken us to war instead of attending to the crises in hand?

    I leave the Why?s to my 20-something son, because he always regrets asking the question why?, because his ear gets bent even more.

  • Tennants Super

    “I can only imagine that the BBC told Craig’s story to blacken New Labour in front of the election.”

    I think that New Labour have done a good enough job of that themselves, without the BBC’s assistance.

    I just listened to the play. Very moving, but ultimately uplifting. It was right to make a stand and to follow your heart Craig.

    Maybe the human rights group Reprieve will have some success in bringing the government to justice?:

    http://www.reprieve.org.uk/2010_02_23_Reprieve_legalaction_government

  • Craig

    Anno

    “I think there’s a case for highlighting a double entendre in Craig’s extract from Gladstone – as he pornographises his audience with the sexual excitement of vulnerable women, fleeing from the security of their Muslim fortified dwellings, while their menfolk are held down under vastly superior British fire-power. The same pornography that we saw in Iraq at the hands of US soldiers, of humiliating the Muslims by raping their women, sons and daughters under overwhelming siege”

    I think that is a completely crazy interpretation. Gladstone was speaking to a female audience. He was summing up a picture of fleeing women and children as anti-war activists quite rightly do.

    Anno, you seem always to want to see all non-Muslim figures as always persecuting Muslimsgures, even when, as Gladstone was, they are very plainly trying to help. What he meant was what he said – a psycho-sexual anti-Muslim subtext exists only in your own head. Yours is not a healthy view – kind of the obverse of Islamophobia and with just as much potential for being ugly.

  • john

    anno–Yes

    “In the meantime what about those British Imperialist adventurers? Were they really inspired by greed and patriotism?”

    Again Yes–although patriotism was merely the oil of the day to make rape of countries more acceptable.

    Your fixation with the sexual is mystifying and doesn’t provide the incentive for death and destruction as a reward.

    No war today makes any sense, except to those, who plan to be the last ones standing amongst the deserts and world resource shortages, which are increasing through corporate greed and capitalism, as a monopoly ideology.

    The important power areas of finance, politics and media are predominantly Zionist controlled, throughout the main countries of the western world–this allows us to watch a 22-day massacre of Gaza’s Palestinians by Israelis, without appreciable UN or western objection, despite the incredible cruelty and such overwhelming odds (see also Lebanon 2006). Israel continues expanding into the West Bank and East Jerusalem and continues daily persecution of Palestinians, without hindrance from US-UK-EU-UN. What more proof is required for the Zionist New World Order and subjugation of those not allegedly “chosen of God”?

  • Jon

    @anno – you touched on the reasons for Craig’s loss against Jack Straw, in the context of muslims. However I do think it is important for you not to put “your brothers” on a pedestal. At the time, Craig made it clear that although he was pro-immigration, if elected he would not guarantee automatic asylum to members of muslim constituents families; meanwhile, it was said at the time that Jack Straw was willing to be much more open to doing so. So, despite the destruction in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gaza, plenty of your brothers voted for Straw anyway, despite his substantial responsibility for the British war and propaganda machines.

    Craig and John quite rightly take you to task for your persistent view that all non-muslims are anti-muslim. I criticised this perspective of yours at length in “Blood on the Comic Opera” but, although you replied, you failed to respond substantively to any of the points I put to you.

    All of which makes me wonder: are you here to have a conversation, and to listen to other peoples’ views so yours might be shaped accordingly, or are you here just so you can insist that all non-muslims are racist?

  • anno

    Jon

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

    Let’s see a series of massive demonstrations before the election DEMANDING that the war in Afghanistan STOP. This would reshape the election agenda. Otherwise it is obvious that the people of the UK don’t give a …

  • anno

    Craig

    It is not my view that is unhealthy. It is war that is unhealthy. Three generations after the second world war and the people of this country are happy to look up from their sandwiches and agree with The Sun that violent and uncontrolled aggression against Muslim countries is fine.

    I am just observing the facts of war, which the rest of the country would prefer to forget.

  • Craig

    Anno –

    Of course I would agree with that. But Gladstone’s open campaigns aganst “Jingoism” also agreed precisely with your proposition. You are right in the general, but it doesn’t justify suspicion of every non-Muslim. There are millions of anti-war non-muslims in the UK.

  • Richard Robinson

    “Muslims do not build up massive weapons systems and nuclear arsenals like the West”

    Well pardon me, but that’s not what the Pakistani powers-that-be were saying 25 years ago. Or what they’ve done since.

    This makes me wonder if perhaps, just possibly, Muslims are not all the same as each other, with only one opinion among the lot of them ?

  • Richard Robinson

    “The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Let’s see a series of massive demonstrations before the election DEMANDING that the war in Afghanistan STOP. This would reshape the election agenda. Otherwise it is obvious that the people of the UK don’t give a …”

    Why do you make this a one-way deal ? If you won’t believe in what “we” want (I was under the impression you’re one of the people of the UK yourself, am I wrong ?) unless you see massive demonstrations, why doesn’t it take massive demonstrations in favour of war to make you believe “we” want it ?

    When I was demonstrating against the upcoming invasion of Iraq, there was actually a counter-demo. On the basis of the numbers there, there were something like fifty people against the invasion for every one in favour.

    If you mean, people are prepared to let it continue … yes, I agree, we haven’t been able to put a stop to it.

  • Jon

    @anno:

    > Let’s see a series of massive demonstrations before the election

    > DEMANDING that the war in Afghanistan STOP.

    I’d love to see that, but in one of our previous exchanges, I pointed out lots of reasons why the perfect electoral engagement does not happen in practise. And on that occasion too, you failed to respond to any of the points – I seem to make lots of interesting points to you, only for you to subsequently talk about something else!

    I paraphrase here what I said previously: perfect civic engagement would be great, but:

    * some people become disenfranchised because they see that politicians rarely give substantial power to the electorate, or that some politicians are just in it for their own personal enrichment;

    * some people have their own, real, genuine problems, and cannot afford to take on other peoples’ problems too;

    * some people absorb the “bad news agenda” from the television and suffer “compassion fatigue” from overdosing upon it;

    * the media environment provides the subconscious perspective that other people’s suffering is somehow virtual, because we don’t see blood on our screens, and the worst impacts of atrocities are censored from our delicate eyes;

    * a sometimes racist media propagandises against the suffering of foreigners, and lobbies for an exaggerated recognition of the suffering of Britons;

    * some people are not particularly bright, and they view “politics” as too complicated.

    And so the list goes on. Sure, some people are specifically selfish, and we should take them to task for it, but other people who are otherwise generous with the people they have around them are somehow disconnected from suffering many hundreds of miles away. They are human, and you should give them some space for their concomitant failures. Yes, we need massively better civic engagement in this country, but that our civic engagement is poor does not make the Briton anti-muslim. Indeed, there is plenty of non-muslim suffering around the world, but our nation of Britons are not out shouting on the streets for them either, unfortunately!

    > It is not my view that is unhealthy. It is the war that is unhealthy.

    We agree on your second statement, but you should be able to recognise that a variety of your views are seen as unhealthy by some readers here. In this case, the view that all non-muslims support an anti-muslim crusade is as daft as the idea that Gladstone’s antiwar speech was really about enjoying anti-muslim violence.

    That all said, I will repeat for your reassurance that we agree on much, and that you should not take great offence at my disagreements with you. But some of your perspectives are, in my humble view, skewed, and I think you would do a great service to yourself by looking at them with fresh eyes.

  • anno

    Jon

    Okay, all the people of the UK are let off the hook. What about their representatives in parliament who are paid to think about these things.

    The point I am trying to make is that the only thing that counts is peace on the ground. Rhetoric doesn’t count. Gladstone gives a speech to a bunch of women, in which female distress is portrayed in a pointless military campaign. It doesn’t matter if he is pacifist or not, UK plc has never delivered peace, because of the Falklands factor. IT’S OUR OIL. WE FOUND IT. BACK OFF OR GET BOMBED.

    Gladstone’s speech is as much a massive dog-turd of hypocrisy as Tony Blair’s 45 minute bombs from Saddam Hussain. What actually happens is totally different from what is proposed. Our politicians are like rabbits mesmerised by the headlights of an oncoming car. They never think, collectively ‘What a load of bollocks. Not having that. We’ll show you if you think you can get away with that rubbish.’

    They think, ‘How very inconvenient that our leader is demanding our loyalty to a very unjust cause. Oh dear, I might get sacked if I don’t do what I’m told.’

    I’m sorry to disillusion those who foster admiration for fine words and fine ideals. Radio 4’s Moral Maze presenter said that we live in a post-ideological age. When did the UK ever have an ideological age? As rh points out above, we had an age of idealism, inside an amoral system.

    The British people share some of that forgotten idealism, inside the amoral system, and take it no further than that. Solid hypocrisy, as long as it is solid, like Blair and the Chilcot Inquiry, is actually approved of. But solid hypocrisy with a veneer of idealism is not a legitimate substitute for running our lives or our country on ideological principles.

    It appears to outsiders that the British people don’t care too much about the wars and their consequences, because they have failed through the ages to insist on having a political system that reflects THEIR beliefs and views. And I begin to agree with them. And our reputation in the world is undergoing fatal change.

    As you know, I believe that we have been hijacked by zionist bankwers for the last thousand years. I’ve got to the stage of thinking’ ‘Either they go, or I go.’ because I can no longer tolerate what is being done by my government in my name at their behest. When they have finished using us, they will drop us, bankcrupt morally and financially and say like Satan: ‘We didn’t force you to do these bad things. You did them of your own free will.’

    in turmoil

    If you stay in a country that violates the sovereignty of successive Muslim nations and you are a Muslim, you are in exactly the same position as a condoning spectator of the slave trade. Adieu, adieu,adieu, adieu. I can no longer stay with you. I’ll hang my harp on a weeping willow tree. I can’t stand hypocrisy. La La.

  • Richard Robinson

    “It appears to outsiders that the British people don’t care too much about the wars and their consequences, because they have failed through the ages to insist on having a political system that reflects THEIR beliefs and views”

    That, I can agree with you.

    But remember, history isn’t finished.

    ‘post-ideological age’, yeah yeah yeah. The End Of History, oh sure. People have been pushing and fighting for more say in what their rulers get up to for a long time. Of course there are people telling us there’s no more to be done. You don’t have to believe them.

    Perhaps they get their own way a bit less than they have done at various other periods of the past ? More people get to vote for an MP than used to be the case, even if the MP doesn’t do much good. But there are people pushing in the other direction too, you know ? People who expect to have things their own way don’t give that up for free, any more than turkeys volunteer for Christmas.

    There _are_ a lot of people horrified at what’s being done in their name. And there are people who actively wanted it, and made it happen, as we learnt in the winter of 2002. And a lot of people just plain not paying very much attention; because they have more urgent concerns, because it’s upsetting and they can’t see what to do about it so they don’t like to think about it, whatever. You’re right, the entire country is not unanimously of the opinion that it must be stopped now. What did you expect, this is a perfect country ? The government does nothing except faithfully execute the wishes of the ordinary people ? I recommend, believe less of the opinions on offer from the media.

  • john

    There are some great pieces of analytical work here–passionate and sincere, especially from rh, Jon and anno. As an atheist, from a Methodist teaching, I sense in the writings of rh and Jon, the overwhelming frustration of the Nazarene Jew Jesus, towards the ruling Priests of the Temple. The latter were happy to compromise with Roman dominion in order to continue their trade and business. Naturally, Jesus preached a dangerous philosophy, in much the same way as Socrates–and both were put to death.

    The British working people have, for hundreds of years, been inveigled and bullied by social elites–from barons of the middle ages, through 18th and 19th century Squirearchy to the present-day “Corporate” MPs, installed under a bogus voting franchise. It doesn’t take much figuring to conclude that their interests over the last thirty years has been markedly for big business and their own advancement to Company Boards–the international Market, above the welfare of people and the Nation. Ex-PM “Bliar” has been a prime example of treachery–a palpable Faustus, who signed away all scruples in blood.

    Most working people have been fairly described in those posts mentioned. Many would-be “influential” people hold positions in the private and public sector, where they fear losing their jobs, or promotion, if they speak frankly and act on conviction.

    The cost of change now, would involve many personal sacrifices and much austerity to implement, although mass demonstrations around Westminster would be an encouraging start.

    In the meantime, I personally hope that, the likes of Craig Murray, gain greater strength and evince more informative posts through this medium, until it seems the natural thing, for people to protest vehemently against the mercenary business-nature and destructiveness of present wars.

  • anno

    The Christian Gospels say ‘ You are to be perfect’. Which means primarily that you put your anger into neutral gear when you hear the bankers’ bonuses being justified by their continuing down the gambling road that has finished our economy, or racism from BNP rottweiller owners at work, or fellow Muslims who earn a lot more than you on benefits, who refuse to pay for the work to be done according to the proper regulations.

    The mosque has got red insulation tape round twisted cores of the main incoming cables, and they refuse as a community to get the problem sorted. Monumental ignorance from every side.

    “Who are we saving the Afghan people from? From the Taliban for a corrupt government that refuses be scrutinised by international observers” one Afghan M.P. observed. Yes we are kicking hell out those who follow an ideology of perfection, same as our own tradition, in favour of a dictator Karsai who is ready to transform himself into a Karimov or Blair.

    I had an old Vauxhall Carlton that accelerated to nearly 100 m.p.h when the pedal got stuck. That certainly wasn’t faulty software in the controls. There is a massive cyber war going on between the west and its competitors,to break into software and to neutralise the elctronics that drive things like murderous drones. When the Muslim armies drive forward over the West’s puppet defences, the Karsais and the Musharrafs and Saudi Royals, the UKUSIS presidents will be madly pushing their nuke buttons and nothing will happen because their codes have been cloned.

  • technicolour

    I used to have a Vauxhall Astra, the engine of which used to cut out at random, though usually on a motorway.

    OK, Anno, you’re waiting for Musliim armies and potential nuclear war. I feel, despite the hysteria generated by the far right about ‘Muslim armies’, you may have a long wait. Nevertheless, I’m afraid I’m not cheered by your assertion that the bombs will be prevented from going off by ‘cloned codes’.

    Since you’ve ended up agreeing that the people of this country are not largely in favour of these invasions, is there not something positive you can do in the meantime? Helping impoverished OAP’s? Fostering links between community groups? Making films? Perhaps you do this kind of thing already?

    PS Do you give two hoots about the Tibetans? I wanted to ask Tony this too.

  • anno

    technicolour

    It was said to me by a Muslim friend that the people of this country were secretly in favour of these invasions. I love my country and its people’s idealism one million times more than Gordon Brown who is trying to crush the idealism of Islam in Iraq and Afghanistan for his Zionist banking masters.

    I decided to put my friend’s views to this forum in order to clarify his challenge in my own mind. The Muslims in this country have made a pact with the devil in exchanging exemption from many illegal activities,e.g. working while on benefits, lying to obtain extra mortgages, having more than one home and not declaring their assets to the benefits system…. in exchange for delivering votes to the Labour party in the inner cities.

    This has stirred up a sense of injustice which manifests itself as racism amongst the enourmously tolerant British people. I believe that this is a carefully made plan by our Zionist masters to cause resentment against Islam, in order to forward their War on Islam agenda. I know that you personally think that all religion is to blame.

    Yes, I could do social work again, because there is absolutely nothing in the electrical field. No, I am not remotely interested in the Tibetans. I can’t see how cloistering males in monasteries and reciting yongyongyongyongyongyongyongyong all day relates to my living God, the God of Moses and Abraham.

  • Neil Craig

    You are right that we have lost our moral centre. Gladsotne won an election, against the odds & against the wishes of the great & good of both parties by campaigning against our neutrality during Turkis massacres in Bulgaria. But the Turks were not 1/2 as barbaric as the drug lords, pimps & organleggers our government quite knowingly went to war to assist in what was openly a campaign of genocide.

    It may be the fault of the media. During Gladstones campaign he did numerous hours long speeches to packed halls of ordinary working class people, who did nopt have the cynicism or realpolitik of the ruling classes & thought genocide something to be opposed. Nowadays a few seconds soundbite on TV reaches far more people & that is all the media will allow. Indeed for anybody who doesn’t tow the official line, be it Tony Benn or Nick Griffin, or somebody who doubts the catastrophic warming lie, all they can expect is to be the drowned out victim of a lynching.

    The problem is that the cynical, not to say obscene, murderous & genocidal subhuman filth that makes up our ruling class, everybody at the BBC & almost all journalists have a grasp on the mass media that never exiosted then & are able to censor the fact that they personally are deliberately participating not only in Nazi atrocities but in the deliberate dissection of living human beings to steal their body organs.

    If Gladstone bhad had such evidence to put before public audiences in his day the people would, rightly, have hung the rulers from the lamposts.

  • rh

    I don’t hold with the Zionist conspiracy theory myself

    Zionism is an invented Ideology, much the same as Jihadism or Communism and all built for a purpose.

    Zionism takes shape in the Pale of Russia when rumours of vast reserves of Middle Eastern oil, brought to Europe by ‘archaeologists’ who use dynamite to search for ‘ancient treasure’ (seismic archaeologists that is), begin to emerge and gathers momentum when, finally, the internal combustion engine is perfected. At last there is a use for all that oil in the ME, the exploitation of that resource means untold wealth to the Oil men and the promise of global domination to the Empire builders, the rest as they say is history.

    As for the destruction of the Ottoman Empire, BTW it doesn’t matter to the oil men which side wins in the first WW so long as the resource falls into their hands, so they back both sides. The Axis expected a short war punching through the Balkans to link with and dominate the Ottomans and finish the Berlin/ Baghdad railway, the Allies meanwhile ‘unite’ the Arabs (while it suits them), beat the Ottomans and the Axis and get the ME prize, and global domination ensues.

    This is not a clash of civilisations, the ruling class are Machiavellian, it’s all about divide and conquer. If the people who lived on the land where the oil was were Buddhist, then the clash would be against the ‘evil godless yong yong monks’. There is no such thing as a Zionist banker, bankers have only one god, as soon as the oil runs out then so will Zionism. The function of Israel is to divide the Arabs and ensure instability in the area, that way you can sell huge quantities of arms to the protagonists and ensure their development is retarded, so that the oil wealth they might one day possess and that might pose a real threat is mitigated in a huge and very profitable waste. Currently they’re hoping to create a new cold war in the ME.

    The way to combat divide and conquer is to put your humanity before any ideology and follow natural law, i.e. do no harm, otherwise we (most of humanity) will remain constantly split and the ruling class will continue on their merry destructive way trailing suffering and injustice in their wake. If you say: first you’re human being and then a Muslim or whatever then we are all on common ground and our differences are minor. These natural human values are present in every Abrahamic religion, are built in to most humans and as if you really need to be told, ‘thou shalt not kill’ is the only one you need to live a spiritual life. Obviously if we all actually followed that natural law, then war is impossible is it not?

  • technicolour

    Thanks, rh, interesting on history, conclusions seconded and thirded. Anno, you really should read about the sufferings of the Tibetans, and the Falun Gong. Nothing to do with Zionism, or Muslims, I’m sorry to say, but without such basic knowledge, you and others are arguing in a vacuum.

  • anno

    rh

    yep, Richard Lion-Heart was probably thinking along the same lines as yourself: ‘better get over to Palestine quick before the oil runs out and I lose my sponsorship deal’

    technicolour

    yep, a vacuum of false belief – that was my intention actually.

1 2 3