Allowed HTML - you can use: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

55 thoughts on “Refreshed

1 2
  • anno

    I have heard the opinion expressed more than once on Radio 4 by young politicians of I know not what persuasion, that the fruit of the monstrous splurge of violence against Muslims of the last few years is that the west has the best opportunity ever to set the agenda and shape world values for centuries to come.

    Oh? We’re still educating the benighted natives, are we? Is this what they teach them at the friends of Israel night schools for aspiring politicians? Oh! and what if the natives are too stupid or too dark-skinned to understand the benefits of the world view we are clubbing into their Muslim skulls?

    Which reminds me of Craig’s topic. He was working very hard championing an unpopular cause in Ghana – and in my opinion it is very exhausting working away from home. Unlike many people I sympathise with politicians who have to work on the hoof and divide their lives between two homes. I respect them for performing this arduous duty and I do not begrudge them a first-class ticket for their pains.

    Talking of politicians, maybe I should apologise for being rude about Hilary Benn. If you listen to Radio 4’s Farming Today you get the impression that this government is quite keen on farmer bashing. I quite admire farmers for their extremely hard work and long hours. The price of land has risen from about £3,000 to £10,000 in the last ten years. So maybe there’s more profit from farming than they’re letting on. So often we hear only one side of the story and our judgements are wrong. So my apologies go to Hilary Benn.

  • mary

    Binyam Mohamed – The Court of Appeal has just ruled that the controversial paragraph 1a? should be published.

  • Smartie

    I have just listened to the play on iPlayer. It was gripping, and challenging and encouraging all at the same time. Congratulations, and keep up the good work. I am just about to comment to the BBC that they should do more of the same. Perhaps even adapt your Ghanaian experiences?

  • dreoilin

    Re Mary at 9:40 AM

    “[The record of MI6 officials] regrettably, but inevitably, must raise the question of whether any statement in the certificates on an issue concerning such treatment can be relied on … Not only is there an obvious reason for distrusting any UK government assurance based on SyS [MI6] advice and information, because of previous ‘form’ but the foreign office and the SyS have an interest in the suppression of such information.”


    “Torture ruling passages critical of MI5 must be restored”


    Wow, is this relevant to Craig or what??

  • dreoilin


    “In the statement the judges took the unprecedented step of waiving confidentiality and reading out previously unpublished remarks about the conduct of MI5.

    “Significantly, the verdict clarified the judges’ views of the responsibility of the foreign secretary in Mohamed’s case.

    “The statement said: “The good faith of the foreign secretary is not in question, but he prepared the certificates partly, possibly largely, on the basis of information and advice provided by SyS personnel.”

    (same URL as above)

  • mary

    Yeah they couldn’t have SS could they – a bit too near the mark.

    Just heard Mgt Becket getting waspish on WATO, she one time chairman of the Intelligence and Security Committee.

    Like Dreolin says – Craig rules. ‘They’ must hate his guts for shining the searchlight into their murky and vile doings.

  • Richard Robinson

    Ah, thanks, could be. They used to be SIS, the Secret Intelligence Service. Insert remarks about lack of intelligence, to taste

  • tony_opmoc

    Interesting use of the term ” previous ‘form’ ” by The Master of The Rolls when referring to the UK Government and their Intelligence Servants.

    I can only assume that he meant the very first definition

    1. Previous convictions

    He’s got form – two sentences for assault and one for burglary.

    Somewhat damning?

    Is One of the most senior judges in the land strongly implying that we are being ruled by Criminals?

    Or maybe I am misunderstanding what he meant?


  • mary

    This is a comment from a thread on Medialens’ message board on the same subject

    Re: Great news (nm)

    Posted by pete f on February 26, 2010, 12:40 pm, in reply to “Great news (nm)”

    yes, as far as it goes, and for using the rule of law to protect democracy – poor it may be but absolutely vital to prevent sleepwalking into fascism. Obviously they haven’t seen enough evidence yet to confirm government complicity in torture, which is why he’s lifted the ref to the FO. But Craig Murray has detailed ample evidence of government complicity in torture, both in terms of creating market demand for the information and turning a blind eye, even when they know some intelligence is the product of torture. So there’s still some way to go but it is a vital verdict along the way in protecting all of us from the ‘right’ and the ‘duty’ of state agents to torture anyone, that Roger Alton and Bruce Anderson argued for in The Independent.

    With an election pending the government is fighting tooth-and-nail to prevent its own complicity in torture being exposed. Retaining power is crucial to avoid litigation for criminal culpability as the state – taxpayers – are funding the best lawyers money can buy to protect their hides.



    I should add:

    “The truth about the government’s complicity in torture is becoming established beyond doubt. I am still shocked about the virtual media blackout on my own evidence to the Joint Parliamentary Committee on Human Rights.”

    ( )

    Craig Details Blair/Straw’s complicity in torture, and his constructive dismissal by same, in his book ‘Murder in Samarkand’. Sir Michael Wood’s ‘legal advice’ on ‘turning a blind eye’ to evidence from torture (and therefore direct complicity with) has yet to be tested in the law courts. It’s most important that it is, because it wont bear scrutiny. Either that, or independent public inquiry. See UNCat, article 4:

    ( )

    There is a danger that this is steered into the old argument of a ‘few bad apples’ in the security services, when the policy came from the top of government: Tony Blair, and they are all complicit in it; Straw, Blair, Brown, Miliband, all of them.

  • Richard Robinson

    “the old argument of a ‘few bad apples'”

    A picky little point, but not completely irrelevant – this usage infuriates me. When I was growing up, I learnt the full phrase as “a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel”. It would be good, and constructive, if we could reclaim this, with all the implications.

    I’ve never tried keeping apples in a barrel, but the experiment can be done in a small way in any fruit bowl, if anybody cares to find out for themself.

  • technicolour

    Not if it’s a supermarket Granny Smith, surely. Those things are indestructible.

    But otherwise, yes, and other things my gran used to say. “Don’t despair, just repair” works for me, too.

  • Richard Robinson

    “Those things are indestructible.”

    Apple pies of mass indestructability, ready to be cooked for 45 minutes.

    Also, the difference between “You break it, you pay for it” (again, what I grew up with) and “You break it, you own it”, as part of the discussion of an attempt to own other peoples’ countries.

  • Anonymous

    I believed as a child that if you walked over a wooden bridge and had lied, the bridge would give way.

    Made me very truthful. I suppose it could have made me avoid wooden bridges.

    Re other countries: good connection. Apparently the Vikings used to sort of sidle in and get on with trading (I couldn’t quite believe this). Anyway, I wonder if Blair, or anyone, has heard of the Spanish proverb: “‘Take what you want, but pay for it’ says God”.

    Also stayed with me: ‘do as you would be done by’ (why not) and ‘honi soit qui mal y pense’ (honey, your silk stocking’s falling down).

  • technicolour

    All of which leads me to conclude; it would be good if Craig stood for parliament again. (I also support Kinky Friedman for Texas). Is there not a constituency crying for a decent representative? Redditch (Jacci Smith) springs to mind.

  • technicolour

    Sorry, far too many ‘I’s’ in those posts. Should be on facebook. But interesting thread on Peter Hain post in CiF, by the way.

  • tony_opmoc


    His history is interesting, some of his ideas are crazy – particularly on energy – but on this he gets my vote – or might if I lived in Texas

    “We’ve got to clear some of the room out of the prisons so we can put the bad guys in there, like the pedophiles and the politicians.”


  • Richard Robinson

    “Apparently the Vikings used to sort of sidle in and get on with trading (I couldn’t quite believe this).”

    Oh, they did, in a big way. They also did the pillaging raping and looting thing, but I’m not sure that made them unique, for the time. Except that they did by sea, and were better at it.

    I went round the ‘Jorvik’ thing (York), once. They had a few old-fashioned display cases of what the excavators had dug up; ‘damask’ silk, woven in Damascus, gold coins from Samarkand.

    They went pretty much everywhere, and did what there was to do. Sometimes they just ended up living places.

  • technicolour

    Tony: Kinky’s a nice comedy thriller writer and a fine musician (you can youtube his ‘They don’t make Jews like Jesus Anymore’). His policies are pretty funny, but then, this is Texas.

    “Politics is the only field in which the more experience you have, the worse you get,” says Friedman. “And I think musicians can better run this state than politicians. And, hell, beauticians can better run the state than politicians.”

    When he was reminded that musicians are not known for their excellent work habits, Friedman replied, “OK, so we’re not gonna get a lot done early in the mornings. All right?”

  • technicolour

    RR: That’s interesting, thanks – I’ve apologised to the person I doubted 🙂 And a great Viking philosophy there, apart from the pillaging etc. Mind you, Thor was always a top superhero.

    Can’t see many Brits settling happily in Iraq now; what a fearful web they’ve woven.

  • me in us

    I heard the play last night on the BBC website. The episode of the orchard being cut down was unexpected, and I was so grateful for Craig’s speech to the woman’s neighbors. There’s something about trees. They’re like a dog whistle to humans that governments and militaries just can’t hear. I read a recent story about all the old plane trees in the Tashkent Public Garden being cut down “at the President’s order.” I wonder if Craig has said anything about them? I could do with a memorial sermon. Grief, just grief.

    me in us

  • mike cobley

    Due to the complexity of life and stuff (we all know about stuff), I missed listening to the play on Iplayer. However…it would appear that David Tennant’s site is providing a download of it gratis. Here’s the link –

    Dont know how long it will last, and be warned that it is 159 MB in size, hmm, a bit chunky. I’ll be settling down to listen to it once I’ve finished reading the book; only a coupla chapters to go and it is gripping.

  • ingo

    It must have been hard to squeeze that much material into the play. I liked it very much, despite my fear that important sections would be missed out due to the volume of material.

    Youy reminder of the awefull bias that were under in Norwich made me wretch. I am as much turned off by the daily lies and ghastly ‘bollitics’ than you are.

    I have had a nsty virus attack over the last two eeks and are still struggling to control that little bastard within my wires.

1 2

Comments are closed.