For all those commenters who were shocked by my failure to be very sorry about the murder of Eugene Terre Blanche, here is a photo of him
And here’s a massacre by those nice cuddly white South Africans – less than 1% of whom engaged in any form of protest against this massacre.
I don’t think any more words are needed.
Clark – you’re thanking Arsalan, someone who wants to enslave women? What would your karmic quanta think of that?
Answer my question, larries:
Helicopter: bang-bang: dead kids – you like?
I’m not that sorry Terreblanche is no longer alive – I am sorry that his death could lead to lots of white people killing black people (again) and lots of black people killing white people
So Larry the Lion, the King of the Animals, is pawing Dreoilin, the king of the birds.
Such is the law of the jungle. Where we appear to be living at the moment.
Remind you of a video?
MJ,
Yes, I know what “semitic” means thank you and in no way canit be called anti-semitic to post pictures of Hamas and Hizbollah striking fascistic poses unless you do it approvingly.
Just out of interest, do I take it that not one “anti-Zionist” gets the slightest amount of discomfort looking at kids being paraded in suicide vests or goose-stepping para-military organizations making Nazi salutes?
Is it considered some kind of necessary evil? I.E something you would normally be horrified by but somehow you rationalize away as quite “okay”?
Arsalan,
If you think that Israel is a fascistic country in which it treats its minority citizens like the Amalekites then how come Israeli Arabs and Muslims have far greater rights there then they do in the rest of the Middle East? How is it you can wag your finger at Israeli democracy when none exists outside it (except very truncated forms in Lebanon and Iran)?
I’m glad you are at least honest in saying the only solution that will satisfy you is the complete destruction of Israel. At least you’re honest. It seems that none of your supporters admit that they want Israel’s complete dismemberment. Maybe I should ask them, what do you think Clark, MJ, Mary, Mark Golding, Suhayl Saadi, dreolin?
Do you agree that only the destruction of Israel can bring peace?
Do you support the destruction of Israel?
Arsalan, you talk about Jews having the “right to return to Germany” assuming that Germany is their natural home and that all Jews began there. This conveniently forgets the yishuv who were already living in Palestine. It also forgets the Jews who lived in Cairo (until they were turfed out), Tripoli (until they were turfed out) and Baghdad (until they were turfed out). Are you able to grant them a right to return to those places and can you guarantee their safety once scattered “to the four winds” as Galloway might say?
Could you confirm that those Jews who can prove a lineage that goes further back than, say, Yasser Arafat in Palestine won’t be subject to second class citizenship under Hamas? No, because you couldn’t even guarantee that for Arab and Muslim Israelis who live there now.
So, how about it. Given that this issue animates so many of you to the point of obsession. What do you see as the solution to this problem? Or are you just striking poses too?
Arsalan,
I really have no idea what will happen – my understanding is that Haaretz is considered “left wing”. I assume there is a law against “unofficial” organ harvesting in Israel.
Angrysoba,
I asked you months ago about your position on Israel. You avoided answering. I asked you privately by e-mail; your answers were contradictory. I said that I believed that you had deceived me, and you claimed to have no idea what I was talking about.
I really think that it is time that you declared your interest.
Angrysoba, I have no idea what the least disruptive answer is. I think that the setting up of Israel was an incredibly destructive act. I would call it stupid too, but I suspect that all the death and suffering caused has helped line someone’s pockets, and in fact they were very clever.
What I do know about the search for a solution is that it is in no way helped by people acting as you have been, by having an agenda that they do all they can to hide, while attempting to discredit humane and courageous people such as Craig, simply because he does not support Israel’s expansionism. You do not gain yourself allies by this method.
And Zionists could stop trying to distort our media and run our government, too.
Angrysoba,
sorry, I got a bit cross there, but I have found you to be deceptive, and that upsets me. The whole topic of Israel is so polarised that it is difficult to think clearly about it. Honesty has to be the first step. It’s time I went to bed. Goodnight.
Angrysoba: “no way canit be called anti-semitic to post pictures of Hamas and Hizbollah striking fascistic poses unless you do it approvingly”.
What is a “fascistic pose”? Sticking your hand in the air? Come on. The issue is whether Hamas and Hizbollah are fascist organisations. Obviously they’re not. Essentially they’re resistance organisations.
“do I take it that not one “anti-Zionist” gets the slightest amount of discomfort looking at kids being paraded in suicide vests or goose-stepping para-military organizations making Nazi salutes?”
I find it very disturbing and I’d be surprised if there was anyone here who didn’t. But I don’t know what your real point is. That all Muslims are fanatical psychopaths? That all Arabs are? That Palestinians don’t deserve their own country back because they’re just savages? (Maybe if they had Apache helicopters and could cruise round Tel Aviv picking off random Israelis from a distance they would seem more civilised). I would remind you that in the Warsaw Ghetto the Jewish resistance perpetrated some pretty blood-curdling atrocities against the German occupiers. I don’t recall anyone suggesting they should have been denied a homeland because of this.
“Is it considered some kind of necessary evil? I.E something you would normally be horrified by but somehow you rationalize away as quite “okay”?”
It’s what happens when powerless people take on the state military machine. Just like the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto.
“It seems that none of your supporters admit that they want Israel’s complete dismemberment”.
Since you ask my view I accept the existence of Israel as a fait accompli. Most of its citizens were born there. No-one is proposing a Stern Gang or Irgun style ethnic cleansing. If there is to be a two-state solution then I think it has to be along the lines of the several UN resolutions, ie the 1967 borders. Nothing less. I think the rest of the world should enforce this, as vigorously as it did the expulsion of Iraq from Kuwait.
There is a lot to be said however for a single state solution where Jews and Palestians co-habit as equals. Not called Israel, not “The Jewish State”, but just Palestine, as it used to be before the war.
“Israeli Arabs and Muslims have far greater rights there then they do in the rest of the Middle East?”
A rather sick joke. Unless you consider having your home being bulldozed down, or being forcibly confined in a vast outdoor concentration camp, or having your schools and hospitals routinely reduced to rubble to be inalienable “rights”.
angrysoba
I know you call Israel a democracy, and I call it a Nazi state. Come to think of it, the two statements do not contradict.
Israel can be both because Nazi Germany was both.
Hitler was elected,l and the Israeli rulers are elected.
But I still don’t agree that Israel is any sort of democracy, because Israel chooses who are allowed to vote to control the outcome of the elections.
So when Israel was founded 80% of the Palestinians were killed or expelled, there by having their voting rights taken away.
That is your democracy, one where the people who would vote against you are killed and expelled so you can win.
Even though I disagree with you that Israel has turned in to the land of milk and honey for the few Arabs who weren’t expelled by the Nazi. You know as well as I do, the amounts Israel invest on the education of Arabs as compared to Jews, and the housing rules. Jew only towns and Jobs. I am not sure why you want to restrict the discussion to them?
What about the rest of the Palestinians, the ones in the West Bank, Gaza and the ones that were kicked out completely.
You consider Israel a democracy, American Iraq a democracy along with the millions of death and the 35% of children who are now orphans a democracy, and America’s Afghanistan a democracy.
Take your democracy and shove it. If this is democracy, it is a good thing few countries have it.
Very late to this discussion, but I was pretty shocked to see Craig’s initial response… I certainly didn’t feel jubilant when this news came through about the death of TerreBlanche.
First things first, TerreBlanche was a neo-nazi. He headed a horrible white supremacist group, a group which came about because they felt in the 70s the apartheid government was going soft.
The greatest danger with his death, as everyone from Jacob Zuma down has acknowledged, is that it is politicised, and TerreBlanche becomes something bigger than what he in fact was. I would imagine most South Africans, like myself, would simply want TerreBlanche to be buried without any fanfare, and for the accused to get a fair trial which doesn’t turn into a political circus.
The AWB was and is a fringe group – it threatened to become more back in 93-94 when it was forging links with people like Constant Viljoen, who was a far more credible leader. But when Viljoen supported the democratisation of South Africa, the AWB were cut loose again. (Mandela by the way has a lot of time for Viljoen).
For those of us who lived through the tensions generated by events such as the assassination of Chris Hani, the death of TerreBlanche brings back the the spectre of the cycle of violence that so many of us dread. I love my homeland deeply, and I continue to hold out hope for the future -but incidents like this are never a cause for celebration because of what sort of reprisals etc could follow.
I also want to point out a little irony about pulling up a picture of the Sharpeville massacre – this was carried out by government security services, whose masters were incomparably more cynical and craven than TerreBlanche’s lot. You only need read through reports from the TRC (look for Vlakplaas, Dirk Coetzee and police death squads) to understand that the vast proportion of the violence perpetrated on black South Africans was sanctioned by the government, to whom the AWB were opposed.
There is nothing commendable at all in TerreBlanche’s political views, but I have a grain of respect for his openness – the truly repugnant slice of Afrikaner South Africa is that which ran the country… PW Botha, FW de Klerk, Adriaan Vlok, Avril Malan, those are the most depraved scumbags from our recent history, TerreBlanche was more of a cartoonish figure who hopefully will remain that way.
For Larry.
‘Beyond Self: 108 Korean Zen Poems’by Ko Un
*THE HERMIT*
Jang Ku-Song the hermit was busy shitting when he heard frogs croaking. It made him recite
The croaking of frogs on moonlit nights in early spring pierces the world from end to end, makes us all one family.
Look, if you’ve had your shit, wipe yourself and get out of here.
Angrysoba,
I don’t know what ultimately should happen about Israel. However, I am sure that (1) I don’t wish my government to give support to Israel’s current behaviour and that (2) I want the media to stop being biased in Israel’s favour.
However, I suspect that, given the influence of Israel’s supporters, and the fact that conflict makes money for the media and the military – industrial complex, the situation will be permitted (encouraged?) to deteriorate, ultimately forcing the sort of solution that Arsalan suggests.
Such a scenario could prove to be an utter disaster for everyone, given Israel’s nuclear weapons.
The Zionist white supremacist Terreblanche died while raping a black boy!
SA police investigate sex link to Terreblanche killing
One of the suspects in the Eugene Terreblanche murder case
The suspects (one pictured here with face covered) were allegedly drunk
South African police are investigating allegations of sexual assault prior to the killing of white supremacist leader Eugene Terreblanche.
A lawyer for one of the two accused men said Terreblanche tried to have sex with at least one of the defendants.
Mr Terreblanche’s body was found on a bed with his trousers pulled down.
Police had initially said the killing was over a wage dispute, but are now exploring the possibility that the killing was an act of self-defence.
“We are not going to focus on one thing,” said Musa Zondi of the Hawks, South Africa’s elite criminal investigation unit, which has taken over the investigation.
“We will investigate all pertinent facts that have a bearing on the matter.”
Eugene Terreblanche in Pretoria in June 2004
The media must choose now whether they want to
AWB spokesperson Andre Visagie:
“The media must choose now whether they want to
AWB spokesperson Andre Visagie:
“The media must choose now whether they want to