Pentagon Gives Gulnara Karimova Huge Contract For Supply of US Forces in Afghanistan 260


The UN Human Rights Committee is a body which routinely pulls its punches. It treats member states with respect, whether they deserve it or not. The UN is of course composed of nations many of which have much to hide on human rights, so the glass houses and stones argument is much applied.

In that context, the new advisory report of the UN Human Rights Committee on Uzbekistan is absolutely damning – as damning as these reports ever get. It contains one paragraph of “Positive Aspects” and 25 paragraphs of “Concerns”.

Concerns include lack of judicial independence, widespread use of torture, the position of women, the failure to produce bodies or graves of those executed by the state, lack of freedom of speech and movement, and use of forced labour – to name but a few.

Download file“>Download file

Not even the UN can pretend that the human rights situation in Uzbekistan is anything other than abysmal.

Still more astonishing then that the Home Office has refused the asylum applications of every single one of the few dozen escapees from Uzbekistan to make it to the UK – which still has the Soviet exit visa system and locks its people in. Even last week the Home Office was still claiming at immigration hearings that there is no human rights problem in Uzbekistan. (Fortunately judges have been less blinkered and asylum cases have been won on appeal).

The UN and EU countries continue to use Uzbekistan as a major supply base for the occupation of Afghanistan. Major new contracts between the US and Uzbekistan were signed in March 2009, and Hilary Clinton is to pay an official visit to President Karimov in November this year.

Even more disgusting is that it now emerges that the newly reinvigorated US/Uzbek relationship was made possible in negotiations because the US agreed to contract Gulnara Karimova’s company FMN Logistics to provide the transport for all the US supplies passing through Central Asia to the US forces in Afghanistan.

Not only that, but the Karimov company FMN Logistics is involved in construction and supply services on the US airbases in Afghanistan itself, and has been involved in the massive expansion work to the prison at Baghram Airbase to provide a replacement Guantanamo torture centre further away from media access.

The Pentagon contracts are worth $850 million a year to the Karimovs.


260 thoughts on “Pentagon Gives Gulnara Karimova Huge Contract For Supply of US Forces in Afghanistan

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  • technicolour

    Huh? I suppose I’m from ‘around these parts’, and you have no idea about my opinions of vaccines. I have no idea about anyone else’s opinions of vaccines. Why, angrysoba, do you keep moving from generally interesting contributions to general smears? It doesn’t make sense.

  • angrysoba

    “I suppose I’m from ‘around these parts’, and you have no idea about my opinions of vaccines.”

    No, but I didn’t mean you technicolour.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Anyhow, back to the Pentagon and Karimov… and the wars in Asia… Larry/ larries, tell me now, do you, or do you not, support the foreign policy of the Bush and Obama Administrations with particular relation to Iraq and Afghanistan and in relation to the global apparatus of rendition and torture, of ‘black sites’ and subterranean prisons, of massive profits for arms-dealing corporations and their associated conglomerates?

    You (one of you) had inferred awhile back that you may not agree with some aspects of these policies. It would be useful for the purposes of driving intelligent and nuanced discourse, if you (one of you) would address this issue head-on, right here, right now instead of attempting to evade my niggling, irritating and persistent interrogation on this point.

    I would suggest that if you simply respond with an insult, people will draw their own conclusions. Unlike you, I am open about my identity on this blog, and in general in the blogosphere: I am who I say I am and I say what I think. Ignore me if you will: again, people will draw their own conclusions.

    Give my regards to the Thames.

  • technicolour

    Arsalan: I know you would admire the Shminitsim, too. Don’t let the dehumanized minority divide humans.

  • stephen

    Suhayl

    I think that you can draw a distinction between the policies of Bush and Obama in the areas you cite. I don’t see how rendition/detention without trial and torture can ever be justified (that doesn’t mean that some of those who decided to take their holidays in Al Queada camps shouldn’t have been subject to trial) – using the ends to justify the means has always been a slippery slope for those of us versed in Koestler and Orwell. You will find the position of Christopher Hitchens is pretty similar.

    As for LArry I haven’t a clue what he thinks on the matter.

  • Richard Robinson

    “No, but I didn’t mean you technicolour.”

    I don’t see how you’d know my opinions on the subject of vaccines, either.

    Are we all supposed to line up and ask you, one by one, if you mean us ?

    If you have something specific to take up with someone, why not do so ?

    It just looks like yet another iteration of “you’re all stupid and I’m not so nyer”. And I can’t see the point.

  • Arsalan

    Again I repeat I am accusing Israel of doing what the New York times is accusing Israel of doing.

    What is irrational is to believe the Israeli government had no knowledge of Kidneys being carved out of people and sent to another continent.

    What is medically impossible is to assume that it was all done in a attack somewhere in complete secrecy, and then the Kidneys were smuggled to America stuffed up someones arse.

    And I am accusing Israel of doing what the US state department has accused them of doing when it comes to Kidnapped Eastern European women being forced in to prostitution. It is the US state department that has accused the Israeli government of being compliant.

    All this was reported in Zionist press.

    Tech

    You should call yourself an anti-Semitism for bringing up what you did about the Israeli army targeting Ambulances, because I’m sure Angry Soba and Larry will call you one if you past the links with more information.

    Palestinians have been killed for Kidneys, and East Europeans have been kidnapped and sent to Israel for prostitution. And the Israeli government have been compliant in both. These are facts. You can shout and scream anti-Semitism as much as you like to change the facts but they will not change. And this time even the Zionist NY times has started reporting on it. Zionist, you have lost!

  • Larry from St. Louis

    You have presented exactly no evidence that kidneys were being carved out of people and sent to other continents from Israel.

  • Arsalan

    Larry you are a lying bitch, I have lost count of the number of times I have pasted the link.

    Are you too thick to click it bitch?

    Do I have to cut and past the whole article, then cut out those words you claim don’t exist?

    Is that what you want bitch?

    Is this no evidence bitch?

    “For a decade, prosecutors said, Rosenbaum would buy kidneys from vulnerable people abroad – in Israel and elsewhere ”

    Sweeping federal probe nabs crooked politicians & alleged black-market kidney peddler

    BY Matthew Lysiak and Carrie Melago

    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

    Updated Friday, July 24th 2009, 4:59 AM

    Sciarrino/Star-Ledger/PoolSome of the 44 people, which included Rabbi’s and politicians, are escorted to a waiting bus from FBI Headquarters in Newark.

    .

    Related News

    Articles

    CLICK TO SEE THE CRIMINAL COMPLAINTS

    Hudson County long a nest of Jersey devils

    Daly: Anthropologist plays ‘Dick Tracy’ to catch bad guy

    Meet the flimflamming informant behind busts

    Shocking bribe probe hauls in dozens in N.J.

    A developer-turned-snitch brought down mayors, rabbis and dozens of others in a stunning probe of money laundering, bribery – and trafficking in black-market kidneys and fake Gucci bags.

    Hundreds of federal agents on both sides of the Hudson River – in Brooklyn and Jersey – raided the homes of 44 suspects targeted in the two-year probe, collaring high-ranking politicians and trusted religious leaders.

    A dozen at a time, defendants were walked in with wrist and ankle shackles for arraignment in federal court in Newark. Bail was set as high as $3 million.

    Aside from the wide-ranging political ramifications of the arrests in Jersey – shocking even in the ethics-challenged Garden State – the takedowns of five rabbis left Jewish communities in Deal, N.J. and Brooklyn reeling.

    Most of the Jewish leaders busted were accused of laundering the snitch’s dirty money through their charities, which they also used to mask ill-gotten gains from the sale of fake Gucci and Prada bags.

    The most outrageous arrest was that of Levy-Izhak Rosenbaum, 58, of Brooklyn, who authorities say would buy kidneys from vulnerable people in Israel for $10,000, then turn around and sell them for $160,000.

    “It is a shonda,” said one Orthodox Jewish leader, using the Yiddish word for shame. “If the allegations are true, it is not the best day we ever had. … The sordidness is an absolute disgrace.”

    The takedown can be traced back to one man, a confidential informant identified in published reports as developer Solomon Dwek, who was charged with defrauding a bank of millions in 2006.

    Dwek apparently offered the feds to turn on rabbis – who stunningly still dealt with him even though it was well known in their community that he had been charged by the government.

    Dwek told the targets he was in bankruptcy and interested in hiding his assets. He laundered $3 million since June 2007.

    One of the launderers introduced Dwek to a Jersey City building inspector who, authorities say, took a $20,000 bribe and kicked off the public corruption portion of the probe.

    Over and over, politicians and candidates solicited and accepted bribes to grease the wheels for Dwek, who claimed he needed building permits and other approvals, authorities said.

    It was in the course of the money-laundering prong of the probe that the informant came across Rosenbaum, 58, who was purportedly in the real estate business but actually makes money trafficking kidneys, officials said.

    For a decade, prosecutors said, Rosenbaum would buy kidneys from vulnerable people abroad – in Israel and elsewhere – for $10,000, then turn around and sell them for $160,000.

  • arsalan

    Do you want another one bitch?

    “The rabbis were charged with laundering money that often was sent to Israel.”

    “Rosenbaum said some of the money would go to the donor and some to doctors in Israel, according to the complaint. ”

    “Rosenbaum said some of the money would go to the donor and some to doctors in Israel, according to the complaint. ”

    New Jersey Mayors, Five Rabbis Arrested in Corruption Probe

    Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A By David Voreacos

    July 24 (Bloomberg) — The mayors of Hoboken, Ridgefield and Secaucus, New Jersey, and five rabbis were among 44 people charged by the U.S. with public corruption and money laundering.

    Hoboken Mayor Peter Cammarano, 32, Secaucus Mayor Dennis Elwell, 64, and Ridgefield Mayor Anthony Suarez, 42, all Democrats; Jersey City Council President Mariano Vega Jr., 59; State Assemblyman Daniel Van Pelt, 44, a Republican from Ocean Township; and Assemblyman L. Harvey Smith, a Jersey City Democrat, were charged yesterday in an FBI complaint. All except Smith appeared in U.S. court in Newark, New Jersey.

    The corruption probe, based in Hudson County, netted many public officials accused of pledging assistance for bribes. A cooperating witness in that probe also infiltrated a “pre- existing money laundering network” that moved “at least tens of millions of dollars through charitable, nonprofit entities controlled by rabbis in New York and New Jersey,” according to a release by acting U.S. Attorney Ralph Marra.

    “The fact that we arrested a number of rabbis this morning does not make this a religiously motivated investigation,” Weysan Dun, special agent in charge of the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s office in Newark, said at a news conference. “It is not a politically motivated investigation. It is about crime, corruption, arrogance and a shocking betrayal of public trust.”

    Cooperating Witness

    The roundup of suspects is one of the largest ever in New Jersey, where more than 100 public officials have been convicted of corruption in the past few years. The cooperating witness laundered $3 million through the rabbis and also made bribe payments to public officials, prosecutors said. Investigators made hundreds of hours of audio and video recordings of illicit transactions, according to prosecutors.

    The cooperating witness is Solomon Dwek, a real estate developer in Monmouth County, New Jersey, who was charged on May 11, 2006, with scheming to defraud PNC Bank out of $50 million, according to three people familiar with the matter. Dwek is a rabbi’s son who was vice president of the Deal Yeshiva School in West Long Branch, New Jersey.

    Cammarano, Hoboken’s youngest mayor, was sworn in July 1. Former state Assemblyman Louis Manzo, 54, a Democrat from Jersey City, and Leona Beldini, a deputy mayor of Jersey City, also were charged. Cammarano attorney Joseph Hayden didn’t immediately return a call seeking comment. Suarez lawyer Henry Klingeman said his client was innocent and wouldn’t resign.

    Five Rabbis

    The rabbis are Saul Kassin, 87, chief rabbi of Sharee Zion, a synagogue in Brooklyn, New York; Eliahu Ben Haim, 58, the principal rabbi of Congregation Ohel Yaacob in Deal, New Jersey; Edmond Nahum, 56, of Deal Synagogue in Deal; Mordchai Fish, 56, of Congregation Sheves Achim in Brooklyn; and Lavel Schwartz, 57, Fish’s brother.

    The rabbis were charged with laundering money that often was sent to Israel. They are members of the Syrian Jewish or Hasidic Jewish communities, Marra said at the news conference. Authorities issued a warrant for Schwartz’s arrest. The other four rabbis were arrested yesterday and appeared in court.

    “This case uncovered a web of corruption that spanned the state,” Dun said. “All of the individuals were connected through their illicit activities with the undercover witness.”

    Kassin is accused of laundering more than $200,000 through Dwek from June 2007 through December 2008 by accepting “dirty checks” from him and exchanging them for “clean” checks, according to prosecutors.

    ‘Asserts His Innocence’

    “The rabbi asserts his innocence,” said Kassin attorney Robert Stahl after U.S. Magistrate Judge Mark Falk imposed a $200,000 bail bond. “It’s a shame that he’s caught up in some misunderstanding. Despite his difficult circumstances, he remains confident that the system of justice will prevail.”

    Falk imposed a $1.5 million bail bond and electronic monitoring on Ben Haim. His attorney, Michael O’Donnell, declined comment. Falk set a $700,000 bail bond on Nahum.

    “He had no involvement in any scheme as alleged and certainly looks forward to the opportunity to clear his name,” Nahum attorney Justin Walder said. “There’s no profit, no involvement in any international scheme.”

    Nahum was implicated by “a person who obviously has his own problems and tried to limit his exposure” to criminal charges, Walder said.

    Fish, Schwartz and two other defendants used a charitable, tax-exempt organization called BCG, which was associated with Fish’s synagogue, to launder money by using money transfers, according to the FBI.

    ‘Vindication’

    “We are confident that the transfers referred to in the complaint will be explained to a jury in a manner that will result in Mr. Fish’s vindication,” said Michael Bachner, his attorney. He said Dwek “used his closeness and the sterling reputation of his family to manipulate individuals who believed that he would never be involved in illegal conduct.”

    Levy-Izhak Rosenbaum, 58, of Brooklyn, was accused of conspiring with others to acquire and trade human organs for use in transplantation. Rosenbaum, who was “purportedly” involved in real estate, was approached by a cooperating witness and an undercover FBI agent about buying a human kidney from a human organ broker, according to the complaint.

    Rosenbaum said it would cost $150,000, with half payable up front, according to the complaint. Rosenbaum said some of the money would go to the donor and some to doctors in Israel, according to the complaint.

    ‘Illegal to Sell’

    “One of the reasons it’s so expensive is because you have to shmear (meaning pay various individuals for their assistance) all the time,” according to the complaint. “It’s illegal to buy. It’s illegal to sell.”

    Attorneys for Rosenbaum and the other suspects either couldn’t be identified or couldn’t be reached for comment.

    Prosecutors charged the men in a series of criminal complaints detailing the allegations. Ben Haim was accused of laundering $1.5 million through the undercover witness, who said he “was engaged in illegal businesses and schemes including bank fraud, trafficking in counterfeit goods and concealing assets and monies in connection with bankruptcy proceedings,” according to an FBI criminal complaint.

    Before his 2006 arrest, Dwek deposited two $25 million checks from another account of his, which had a zero balance, prosecutors alleged. Dwek then wired $22.8 million out of PNC, falsely assuring bank officials that he would forward funds to cover the overdraft, according to prosecutors.

    $10 Million Bond

    Dwek posted a $10 million bond, secured by $3 million in equity in the homes of his mother-in-law and sister-in-law. Dwek was never indicted, instead receiving 17 extensions from a judge to continue the period in which his case had to be presented to a federal grand jury.

    Michael Himmel and Christopher Porrino, lawyers for Dwek, didn’t return calls or e-mails requesting comment.

    More than 300 agents of the FBI and the Internal Revenue Service arrested the suspects and executed search warrants this morning, according to Dun.

    Agents arrested 37 suspects yesterday, two surrendered, and three, including Smith, are expected to surrender tomorrow. Authorities issued arrest warrants for two other suspects.

    Agents also searched the house of Joseph Doria, a former Democratic assemblyman and the commissioner of the state Department of Community Affairs. He hasn’t been charged. They also searched the offices of the president of St. Peter’s College, a school in Jersey City, as well as a synagogue in Deal, Dun said.

    “Any corruption is unacceptable — anywhere, anytime, by anybody,” New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine, a Democrat seeking re-election against Republican Christopher Christie, the former U.S. attorney in New Jersey, said in a statement.

    ‘Cannot Be Tolerated’

    “The scale of corruption we’re seeing as this unfolds is simply outrageous and cannot be tolerated,” Corzine said.

    Doria resigned yesterday at Corzine’s request, the governor’s spokesman said.

    The arrests yesterday emerged from an investigation that spans a decade and has led to two earlier roundups.

    “New Jersey’s corruption problem is one of the worst, if not the worst, in the country,” FBI supervising agent Ed Kahrer said. “Corruption is a cancer that is destroying the core values of this state and this great nation.”

    To contact the reporter on this story: David Voreacos in Newark, New Jersey, at [email protected].

  • Arsalan

    Why did I bother pasting that?

    Larry the lying bitch knows exactly what Israel is up to. No prizes for guessing that he will find a way to wriggle out of this one?

    What is it going to be then Larry the lying bitch?

    Are you going to say it was just bad apples and not the saintly government of Israel?

    Are you going to say, well everyone does it, so Arsalan is an antisemite for mentioning Israel does it?

    Which is it going to be then bitch?

  • anno

    Laz Taz April 3, 2010 10:29 PM

    Arsalan is an anti-Semite for mentioning Israel does it.

    A desperate use of the race card when all else fails. My partial Jewish DNA and white skin makes me appear to many Muslims as an Arab. I am not, like Larry, a self-hating Jew who has just confessed that Israel commits crimes against humanity. I am, like Arsalan, someone who has the deepest respect for the Jewish race, which happens to be in my DNA, and who also has utter hatred of the crimes committed by some of them.

    Let me make it absolutely clear, that it is not because of their race, that Israel commits crimes, but because of the deficiency of the religion of Judaism to prevent its followers from committing crimes. The religion of Judaism was made defunct when Jesus pbuh condemned them for not listening to him.

    Its defunctness was confirmed in the Qur’an.

    I am probably as much Jewish as many people who live in Israel, but I have been blessed with the understanding that the Christianity of the Church of England, the fag-end of Christianity which is the English varlues of Gordon Brown, the Christianity of charitable deeds of methodism, the Christianity of gross perversion of the Church of Rome, plus communism, plus capitalism, plus their offspring, different combinations of social democraticism are ALL wrong.

    Some people worship one aspect of what God has put into Man, for example our social nature, some people worship another aspect of what He has created in us, e.g. mysticism. Others worship the love of wealth which God has placed in Man. But nobody worships the Creator, except the Muslims. The Jews worship tradition and Allah says about tradition, when people said that they would believe what had been handed down to them from tradition, but not what had been revealed to them in the Qur’an:

    ‘ What!!?? even though their fathers and grandfathers were wrong? ‘ Still, they worship tradition? And worshipping tradition means that killing people, cutting off body parts and prostituting women by force, is okay?

    What about worshipping the God who revealed that killing someone, except when someone has killed someone from your family, is completely forbidden. And even then it can be transmitted by financial compensation? Who revealed that it is forbidden to force women to prostitution?

    The source of the evils of Zionism is the insufficiency of the relic of Islam that is Judaism, to guide and control its followers. If any Muslims are perpetrating evil,it is because it is a deficiency in their understanding of their religion. There are many false traditions in the religion of Islam as well. Islam needs reformation. What does the West do to the reformers of Islam, the Taliban? Kill them.

    If we all followed tradition, we’d be still practising Druidism. But then again it’s Easter and we’ve just killed and resurrected Jesus, so the UK religion probably still is DRUIDISM.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    Anno: “Islam needs reformation. What does the West do to the reformers of Islam, the Taliban? Kill them.”

    I believe women have a right to be educated, to the extent that men have such a right.

    Discuss.

  • dreoilin

    Larry is now pretending the US/UK are in Afghanistan for the sake of the women. What a laugh.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    dreoilin, once again you demonstrate a remarkable lack of ability to grasp logic.

    Were you ever educated?

    It would be like me saying at this point that you defend and support the Taliban.

  • Arsalan

    Larry No, I would prefer to discuss your mother.

    Why? Because you keep trying to change the topic to Islam bashing every time you lose an Israel debate.

    So you want to discuss women and education. I will respond by asking questions about your mothers butt size?

    Shall I do that or am I changing the topic?

    Does anyone else want to join my discussion on Larry’s mother?

    Any questions on how she smells?

    Larry there might be people thick enough or ignorant enough to fall for your crap. I am not one of them. I have contact with at least two charities who ran girl’s schools in Afghanistan during the Taliban. I know that there were more women studying medicine in Afghanistan during the Taliban then men.

    So Larry, tell your mother to burn in hell!

    When it comes to the female right to education I would much rather talk about Muslim girls being kicked out of school in France for wearing a scarf? And Canada, and it has been known to happen in the UK too, but not universally.

    It also happens in some Schools in Israel.

    So do you want to discuss the rights to education of those girls?

    Or would that be antisemitic?

    Ok lets talk about Israeli education?

    How much does Israel spend per Jewish pupil, $1100?

    compared to spending $190 per Arab pupil?

    So lets talk about those female Arab pupils and how much Israel thinks their education is worth?

    Or would that be antisemitic Larry?

    Would that be as Antisemitic as the Kidney exports?

    Or the Kidnapped East European Imports?

    Yes lets discuss the rights of those women and girls, kidnapped from Eastern Europe, forced in to prostitution in Israel. Do they have a right to education?

    Lets discuss?

    Or would such a discussion be antisemitic?

  • Larry from St. Louis

    No, I didn’t change the subject; your co-religionist above wrote: “Islam needs reformation. What does the West do to the reformers of Islam, the Taliban? Kill them.”

    “When it comes to the female right to education I would much rather talk about Muslim girls being kicked out of school in France for wearing a scarf? And Canada, and it has been known to happen in the UK too, but not universally.”

    Of course that’s where you want to keep the focus. You seem to now be seriously suggesting that because France won’t let schoolgirls wear certain clothing, French society is equivalent to Taliban society, in which girls were not educated.

  • dreoilin

    “The Chechens are portrayed as around the same level as wild animals”

    @Vronsky

    Sorry for not responding – I was in a rush yesterday. I haven’t read Tolstoy’s short story that you mentioned but the above rings many bells. (So many I won’t go there!)

    “Does anyone else want to join my discussion on Larry’s mother?”–Arsalan

    She reared him as many/most other Americans are reared — to think that nobody in the world can measure up to Americans, and no country in the world can measure up to America. That’s why he sneers, Arsalan. They are deluded via their mother’s milk. Larry can jump in the nearest lake. The Americans I deal with online don’t have gross habits and are not pumped up with steroids, arrogance, and fake history.

    I defend the right of Afghans to defend their country against invasion. Any normal person would. To deny that is to deny the right of Americans to fight against an invasion by Russia or France or Iran or anyone else. And that would be a bit silly, now wouldn’t it?

    Arsalan, he has only one aim and that is to drive up your blood pressure and make you have a heart attack. I recommend a nice cup of tea.

  • Richard Robinson

    John le Carre’s “Caucasus” book has some fairly pointy remarks about “blackarses”. I know it’s fiction, but I suspect he researches it.

    Apart from that; arsalan, no, I don’t know why you bother, dreoilin, of course anybody’s going to object if their country’s invaded by outsiders, and etc etc, so much heat, so little light, another successfully-poisoned thread, see you tomorrow.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    “She reared him as many/most other Americans are reared — to think that nobody in the world can measure up to Americans, and no country in the world can measure up to America.”

    dreoilin, what’s it feel like to be a subject of the Pope (if indirectly, of course).

    I don’t really know Americans who were raised like that, but I do know of the stereotype that simple people like you perpetuate.

  • angrysoba

    technicolour: “And, for the nth time, everyone should watch To Shoot an Elephant. The humanity and stoic realism displayed by the Gazan ambulance crews bears no resemblance to arsalan’s emotional state.”

    Thanks, I’ll watch it.

    Is that title a reference to the George Orwell essay about him shooting an elephant in Burma?

    Arsalan,

    I read that article the first time and it doesn’t say what you seem to think it does.

    It certainly does refer to illegal activity in which people pay others to sell their kidneys but that is not the same thing as you were suggesting which was murdering Palestinians for their kidneys and sending them to another continent.

    Look, here is another article which describes it:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/09/01/blackmarket.organs/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Stephen, thank you for again answering the question I’d put to ‘Larry’, I appreciate you doing me the courtesy.

    I take the inference, from this, as well as from the last line of your response, that the identity of ‘Larry from St Louis’ may be a ‘shell’ identity, much like a ‘shell’ company, which various individuals occupy at different times and that in this dynamic you, ‘Stephen’ are in fact one of the ‘Larries’.

    ‘The Spirit of St Louis’ was Charles Lindbergh’s pioneering trans-Atlantic aircraft, and so perhaps an Atlanticist stance is suggested. Perhaps you are the Lindbergh Baby’s Baby.

    Larry’s tactic, it seems to me, is to throw out two-line ‘whips’ which generate much heat, little light and paragraph-upon-paragraph in response. The occasionally more sedate and more obviously ‘English’ version of ‘Larry’ is perhaps also you?

    Anyway, all’s fair in love, war and the blogosphere (as the virus said to the spam). Yet, in the spirit of trans-Atlantic flight, Neil Armstrong, Spartacus and the human endeavour, it would be a further demonstration of good faith (in the colloquial rather the the theological sense) if you were to demonstrate that you are an honourable person, as I suspect you are, and relate your knowledge of the phenomenon of ‘Larry from St Louis’.

    Thank you again for your responses and for engaging in a discourse.

    I hope in the end you managed to get that fry-up! Lincolnshire sausages and all.

    Happy Easter.

  • angrysoba

    Suhayl: “‘The Spirit of St Louis’ was Charles Lindbergh’s pioneering trans-Atlantic aircraft, and so perhaps an Atlanticist stance is suggested. Perhaps you are the Lindbergh Baby’s Baby.”

    From what I understand of Charles Lindbergh, he was something of an isolationist. So if “St. Louis” is being used as a tribute to Atlanticism it’s probably an inapt one.

  • stephen

    “I take the inference, from this, as well as from the last line of your response, that the identity of ‘Larry from St Louis’ may be a ‘shell’ identity, much like a ‘shell’ company, which various individuals occupy at different times and that in this dynamic you, ‘Stephen’ are in fact one of the ‘Larries'”

    That would be entirely the wrong inference – I am who I say I am. And I haven’t the faintest idea who Larry is – not that I disagree with much of wht he says. I suspect his line of posting is just to incite the likes of Arsalan to reveal their true nature – which he does with no little success. Lindbergh was also a Nazi sympathiser (read Philip Roth’s Plot against America) so most definitely not one of my heroes.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    So, larries, this means that you have not yet answered my question. You seem to enjoy provoking arsalan; okay, there’s a function in that. We do need to have discussions about the various ways in which Islam is being interpreted and used, and I’ve had some of those discussions with arsalan and anno and many others and often we disagree as anyone following this blog will know.

    Yet it would be really useful for you to express a response clearly and unequivocally – and perhaps also with courtesy – to my central expository question.

    I agree that this has nothing to do with ‘Americans’, as though particular characteristics could be ascribed in a simplistic manner to 350 million people, any more than they could be applied to one billion Muslims or 1.2 billion Chinese people. It has everything to do with the economics of war, the control of resources and the interplay of both of these with ideology.

    Dreoilin, in the old days, ‘tea’ used to refer to ‘LSD’ (as in ‘Come and Have Some Tea With the Tea Company’, by The Moving Sidewalks, which was the ZZ Top band before it was ZZ Top); it would probably not be prudent that Arsalan imbibe ‘acid’. Nonetheless, a cup of camomile would not go amiss for any of us from time-to-time, not as anodynia, but so that we are well-limbered for effective discourse and one hopes, activism/ struggle by whatever means is available to us.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    On an entirely separate note, I do think that as a general rule if one wishes others to respect one’s own religion, it is best to demonstrate respect for theirs.

    Listen to Lebanese singer, Fairouz’s Easter Hymns or to Gaelic Metrical Psalms or Jewish cantors…

    All faiths contain beauty of the spirit. I think it’s the only way we can live in today’s world.

  • dreoilin

    “I agree that this has nothing to do with ‘Americans’, as though particular characteristics could be ascribed in a simplistic manner to 350 million people”

    –Suhayl Saadi

    That’s why I said, “The Americans I deal with online don’t have gross habits and are not pumped up with steroids, arrogance, and fake history.”

    I don’t “deal with” Larry, whom I find abusive, provocative and insulting. However, I do deal with (interact with) hundreds of Americans online, in peace groups where we are all activists.

    I have little knowledge of LSD (the strongest drug I do is caffeine.) But from the little I do know, I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. Flashbacks decades later can’t be nice.

  • dreoilin

    Anyone who posts this:

    —-

    dreoilin, shut up you dishonest pretend-fence-sitting cunt. Don’t you have a nap to attend?

    Posted by: Larry from St. Louis at March 1, 2010 8:15 PM

    —-

    on the 9/11 thread, unprovoked other than by repeating a question from MJ, neither deserves nor gets any respect from me.

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