American and Israeli Religious Nutters: Loving Each Other to Hell 233


You really do need to watch all of this video from the Christian Broadcasting Network:

A couple of years ago, while giving a lecture at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, I was astonished when a lecturer told me that half of his students would agree with the proposition that a war in the Middle East would lead to Armageddon, and that would be a good thing. In Ann Arbor, bot the Deep South.

The extent to which US support for Israel is driven by these christian violent religious extremists should not be underestimated. They are a major force in US politics.

The extraordinary thig is that violent religious extremists in both the US and Israel look forward to fighting sude by side against the forces of evil in the Last Battle in the Middle East, yet extremist jews and extremist christians each also believe that at the climax, when the world ends, their cherished allies will go to Hell with their enemies.

It is of course the American christians who are the most destructive violent religious extremists in the world.


233 thoughts on “American and Israeli Religious Nutters: Loving Each Other to Hell

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  • Suhayl Saadi

    Larry states that he has “encountered” rapture a few times in his life. Well, lucky him! Such lemon squeeze orgasms do not seem to have made him particularly happy, though, do they? Perhaps it was the wrong kind of acid. Actually, as I said before, I find Michael Petek extremely entertaining. Wacko as Beelzebub, of course, but hilarious in a sort of Ivor Biggun way.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LD_fEt9ACc

  • Jon

    Larry:

    “You’re very silly if you believe that Americans who support the right of Israel to exist do so only because they believe in some supernatural rapture.”

    I don’t think people are suggesting that. What I was saying to Michael is that some people believe in the Rapture first and foremost, and wouldn’t normally give a rat’s ass for secular politics. But passages in the Bible suggest that when the Chosen People are returned to The Promised Land, Christ will come again, and the Rapturists have taken this to mean that the Jews need to be supported against the Palestinians, that we are in End Times now, and that when the Muslims are defeated, Christ will appear in a flaming supermarket trolley.

    But yes, there are other reasons that people give for supporting Israel and not Palestine.

  • Richard Robinson

    Jealous gods are a pain in the arse. One’s true, all the others got to be false. Zero sum games. Bad as armies. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could pack them all off somewhere to fight it out among themselves without bothering the rest of us ?

  • glenn

    Matthew Huntbach: Thank you for a very interesting post above. Please stick around. The view you describe is probably Calvanist, wherein those favoured are clearly the rich, since God wouldn’t like his favoured people to have a hard time by being poor.

    There’s a move to remove a “liberal bias” in the Christian Bible:

    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/280153

    (This is digitaljournal, so anyone can write there without editing or a need for references, but the point is solid, and can be self-researched)

    This great project means the real socialist Jesus can be entirely re-written as the free-wheeling, unregulated libertarian and unrestricted Jaysus can have his messages properly interpreted. Yes indeed!

    Thus:

    “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for

    a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:24)

    Becomes:

    “It is easier for […] a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”

    (New, Improved Matthew 19:24)

    Those Calvinists had it right all along!

  • Michael

    “So it seems that you are admitting that you consider that all Jews (Zionists or not) are “blood-traitors” to Christ, and that Judaism is false”

    No, only those who raise the sword in hostility to Christ, invoking divine mandate to justify what they do. If they leave the sword alone and abstain from blasphemy, they don’t get wasted.

  • Steelback

    Jon

    The “shallow answers to shallow questions” charge made by Patrick Grimm is clearly right on the money in your case.

    I believe Gilad Atzmon is one of several Jewish writers who have openly acknowledged the damage wrought by Jewish ethno-supremacist elites against Western culture.

    Presumably in your silly truth-distorting PC world we must now refer to Atzmon as a “self-hating Jew”?

    Your inability to as Grimm puts it to,”think outside the box”-allows Zionists to hide their racism by projecting it on to their opponents.

    Happily as their opponents become-with each new atrocity that estranges them from mankind-more numerous the “anti-semitism” and “self-hating Jew” psychological weapons are becoming pathetically redundant.

    Being so far behind the game and trapped in your Frankfurt School box you obviously failed to notice this trend in human affairs.

  • Apostate

    Pity Grimm’s not updated his essays of late.

    In an elegiac and characteristically eloquent essay called The Judaic Spirit and the Jewish Mindset he describes how Greco-Roman classical public virtues have been traded for the consumerism,pragmatism and globalism that are hallmarks of our culture today.

    This guy,Jon will probably find it a difficult read!

    Dingbat!

  • Steelback

    Yo,Apostate

    The phrase,”AS THE CUTS BEGIN TO BITE” is one we’ll hear from now on ad infinitum.It will be used by increasingly angry people to demand to know why they are expected to suffer for crimes committed against them by Central Casino Banking Inc.

    The people’s will demand new answers to old questions.

    As the central bankers extract their

    pound of flesh from all of us they will also promote the need for WW3.

    Truth-seekers like Grimm,Atzmon et al will become even more sought after to provide answers for those who now seek them.

    Even some of the clueless brain-washed British middle classes who are about to be dispossessed will seek answers outside the Frankfurt box.

    RIP Frankfurters!

    DUMP ISRAEL!

    DUMP CENTRAL BANKING!

    P.S.Reckon they think we’re talking re-sausages?

  • Apostate

    The research-averse commenters here who denounce any attack on Zionist central banking as “anti-semitic” need to go back to the speeches made by Senators MacFadden,LaFollette and Lindbergh against the Fed during the Depression.

    All suffered death threats and harassment because they tried to convey the truth re-central banking.

  • Jon

    Steelback – a few points.

    I come genuinely from the left, not New Labour, or any of the mainstream pro-Israeli party positions. I think the state of Israel is inhumane, and whilst I think the limited terrorism against Israeli civilians is wrong, I understand it in the context of a truly brutal occupation. I am plenty capable of thinking “outside the box” but I do need to call racism when I see it.

    Gilad Atzmon is a good guy, I think, and no, I don’t use the phrase ‘self-hating Jew’. But I’d wager that Atzmon, who is fully critical of Israeli expansionism, would find the Grimm website to be racist, and he would happily condemn it. I’m a big fan of Chomsky, who also speaks out against the occupation, and who is also Jewish. I am confident he would condemn that website too.

    I think you deliberately ignore the existence of groups like BT’selem in Israel, in which Jewish people are recognising the atrocities of their state and they’re doing something about it. Ditto the Jewish people who go to the checkpoints to film how the IDF treat the Palestinians, which is often terrible, and sometimes results in the deaths of Palestinians. I went to a socialist meeting last year in London, at which Jewish marxists laid out their case for a one-state solution, which makes them very unpopular in their homeland!

    You suggest that “Zionists [are allowed] to hide their racism”, which shows you’ve misunderstood me. Zionism is by necessity a racist ideology, and I will happily say that – it is expansionist and in its worst varieties wants to see the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. Even Craig is in agreement with your point here, I think.

    But the point of the Grimm website is to suggest that all +Jewish+ people are racist, which is wrong and racist in itself – see my earlier examples for proof! I agree that the media in Israel stokes up racist feeling, and the exaggerated threat of Palestinian terrorism heightens the tension and hatred felt by a worrying proportion of the Israeli public. Sadly this is the human condition, but you and Grimm wish to ascribe it to Jewishness, which is what I object to.

    I notice that you did not attempt to answer my question about your proposed link between Jewishness and criminality/greed. I think you’ll find that there are a lot of successful Jewish people in finance, but perhaps this was a collective outbreak of determination to overcome the psychological burden of the Holocaust? That would be a laudable thing in itself, aside of course from the damage that capitalism causes. But is there a genetic disposition that gives Jewish people a selfish streak? No.

    I am uncomfortable with the phrase ‘anti-semitism’ as it elevates anti-Jewish racism to be a worse case than any other kind of racism. And yes, this device is used to deflect criticism of Israel.

    I think your energies would be better put into a socialist analysis, given your views on international finance. That approach would allow you to form a model of the world whilst remaining sympathetic to those Jewish people who, like you, are anti-capitalist and anti-occupation. As I said before, I am interested to read theories outside of the mainstream, but yours tends towards overt racism, and we surely don’t need more hate in the world. There is plenty of that already.

  • Steelback

    Jon

    Sorry I’m afraid brandishing your leftie credentials cuts no ice with me whatever.

    You are not only thoroughly misreading Grimm you’re not reading Atzmon properly either.

    You appear not to have noticed that Atzmon is saying exactly the same things re-Jewish collective ideology as Grimm. Moreover the selection of terms by each is remarkably similar.

    Out of the two, probably because Atzmon is Jewish, he is far less inhibited in his diagnosis of the Jewish mentality than Grimm. Read both more carefully when you’ve put down your Das Kapital or Chomsky!

    Characteristically while you think it’s very PC to applaud Atzmon’s stand against Israel you have have not properly read his output on the broader issues of what he terms “Jewish infiltration” of politics and governments.

    If Atzmon made such criticisms of the Jewish mentality-he says he knows so well-from a non-Jewish perspective you and I know you’d be shouting all about his “anti-semitism” from the rooftops!

    Now I would venture to say your advice re-the need for me to adopt a socialist perspective betrays you as being quite young. Age would have taught you by now that you cannot stuff your politics down anyone else’s neck. It’s both naive and the height of bad manners at the same time.

    I’m trying to be delicate here but the left-right paradigm to which you clearly subscribe has no relevance to this issue whatever.

    The Soviets were key Israeli allies from day one.Few Arabs today are unaware of the way the Soviets brutally betrayed them by pretending otherwise.

    Huge swathes of Ashkenazi immigration from the Soviet bloc helped make Israel the brutal apartheid state it is today.

    As someone who participated in the STW marches against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq I can remember the SWP’s admonitions against our subscribing to the then current Meirsheimer-Walt idea that an “Israeli Lobby” even existed in the US.This we were told would open us to our critics calling us……shock,horror:

    ANTI-SEMITES and CONSPIRACY THEORISTS!

    The STW movement is still going nowhere today because people like you believe that to criticise Israel or the Lobby or God forbid to question the official 911 account is anti-semitic conspiracy theory.

    Sorry Jon, but the recollection of the willed blindness to earthly reality shown by the left at that time alienated me utterly.

    Have you not worked out that Fabianism like Marxism before it was sponsored by the same elite?

    Open your eyes man!

    Have you not worked out that Chomsky who said that the identity of those of who perpetrated 911 was unworthy of anyone’s attention is a Left-Establishmnent gatekeeper?

    Wake up for Christ’s sake before it’s too late!

  • Apostate

    You need a lot of patience to deal with people like Jon, Steelback.

    Rather you than me,pal!

    This site is stuffed with them to the rafters.

    On Atzmon and his recent output I think he IS more brutally frank than Grimm.

    The “collective morbidity” he asserts is shared by his people is one that stands out as a quote that will be used ruthlessly by critics like Aaronavitch to denounce him as “self-hating” and “anti-semitic”.

    Probably Jon will say the same thing. I mean aren’t Aaronavitch and Nick Cohen leftie heroes?

    (LOL)

    Let’s let them check out what Atzmon actually says? Mind you they’ll only be allowed to read it if Oberstrurmfuhrer Murray’s still in Africa or one of the ‘Stans!

    http://arabnews.com/opinion/columns/article66233.ece

  • Jon

    Steelback, you seem to unable to keep the discussion civil. But I’ll take your advice, and read more Atzmon.

    Meanwhile I only +suggested+ that you develop a socialist critique – the only person “stuffing politics down [someone] else’s neck” is you. It is strange for me to be dismissed as young when my responses to you are a great deal more polite, and a great deal more literate, than your shouty replies.

    My reasonable questions about good people in Israel, and the lack of a proven link between Jews and greedy/selfish traits, remains unanswered. No surprises, I suppose.

    If your purpose is to persuade people of your cause, then you are, respectfully, not going the right way about it. I’ve found that with the 9/11 movement too: a person calling themselves “researcher” on this board positively harangued me some while back when I asked a simple and non-aggressive question. Given your propensity for posting under several names, I wonder now whether that was you?

    I think I will avoid your handle(s) in future. I was rather hoping for a civil discussion, but you appear unable to participate in one.

  • glenn

    Jon: This BS about “being young” is usually because the person making the accusation is a selfish turn-coat who lacks principles. They like the idea of distribution of wealth while younger, because they might have been a student, apprentice etc. and lacked money. Later in life, they see no reason to share anything that they’ve gained through participating in society, and then right wing selfish policies sound more attractive.

    Naturally, such a person wants to admit none of this. Being the sort of person they are, they’ll turn it into a virtue – they’re not a turncoat, no no – they’ve become _enlightened_. Yes, that’s it – they’ve gained wisdom through age. Nothing like giving oneself a pat on the back while selfishly abandoning principles, eh?

    Furthermore, anyone still true to the principles they once held are clearly not as enlightened, and with age and experience, will surely do the same. If they do not, well now we’re onto the proposition that the person who still holds principles must lack sense.

    So it goes.

  • Apostate

    Jon

    On Steelback’s inability to hold a civil conversation-I beg to differ.

    The guy POLITELY wiped you out, pal!

    I would have lost it utterly with you. I mean people like you are the reason we’re where we’re at. People like you are the reason this blog has a Zio-shill infestation.

    No wonder a 911 researcher took you to task. I thoroughly empathise with the guy. You totally lack any capacity for critical thinking.

    You should feel well at home on this blog!

    Make friends with Larry why don’t you?

  • Apostate

    Jon

    On Steelback’s inability to hold a civil conversation-I beg to differ.

    The guy POLITELY wiped you out, pal!

    I would have lost it utterly with you. I mean people like you are the reason we’re where we’re at. People like you are the reason this blog has a Zio-shill infestation.

    No wonder a 911 researcher took you to task. I thoroughly empathise with the guy. You totally lack any capacity for critical thinking.

    You should feel well at home on this blog!

    Make friends with Larry why don’t you?

  • Freeborn

    These holier-than-thou Lefties like Jon get my goat too.

    Have they heard, read, or seen anything that wasn’t authorized by B’nai B’rith or ADL?

    Probably not.

    Steelback held his shit together where I would have dished it out big-time!

    Bring on Cathouse Larry I’m ready!

  • Steelback

    Bring on the former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan,Rt Honourable Ubersturmfuhrer Murray.

    I’m ready!

    Shit he’ll delete me before I even get the chance to vent my spleen!

    It’s a rigged game!

    Didn’t Patrick Grimm, Gilad Atzmon,Elizabeth Dillinger, to name but three, tell us that?

  • Apostate

    The idea that we’re trying to stuff “our politics down their necks” is plain daft.

    I couldn’t give a monkey’s chuff what dingbats like Jon think. He’s plainly got his head up his own arse hasn’t he?

    Anyone who still thinks the left-right paradigm has any relevance whatever to out current predicsment needs a full-frontal lobotomy!

    This guy, Jon’s already had one!

  • sandcrab

    Vronsky may have called them right ages ago. The steelborn bunch are possibly characters from the same pen as larry.

    People can be all sorts, but if these characters were sincere they would be identically deranged, not just from their mixing of indignant outrages with racist and homophobic sentiments, but from the amount of time they spend here cackling and ranting with contempt just like larry, and yet these are supposedly such industrious scholars. To find three or four such similarly deranged characters, all with a shared curriculum, deciding Craig’s little blog deserves so much attention, stretches probability. There are only a dozen or so supportive commenter to the blog of comparable post counts. Its an unusual coincidence of hecklers to end up with naturally for a forum of this size.

    Im not certain of this motivation, but i find it easier to consider them as fictional than as the sincere tormented souls they display as. If they are not professionally penned to stink out the rough positions they purport to support here and stink out the forum too, they are an unlikely bunch of hopelessly unpersuasive, twisted, Internet addicts.

  • glenn

    Apostate et al – you’ll find my informed opinion on the most infamous inside job ever on the post dedicated to it:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/01/the_911_post.html

    Nobody, I repeat – nobody, has managed to offer anything but the most simplistic counter to my demolishing, pardon the phrase, of the Official Story. Particularly my post of January 28, 2010 11:05 PM, which requires no special training to understand – just basic principles of physics. It should not be hard to counter, if the Official Story is true.

    I’ve left Zionist conspiracy angles out of it altogether, however – first because I don’t see that it really matters, and second because I don’t see any proof. But I’d be fascinated to discuss it with you on that thread.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    Glenn, there is no official story, and you didn’t demolish it.

    You should be standing on a corner selling pencils from a cup.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    Glenn:

    How do you deal with the fact that Craig Murray believes that you’re a “conspiraloon” (his term) for believing that 911 was an inside job?

  • angrysoba

    “Steelback, you seem to unable to keep the discussion civil. But I’ll take your advice, and read more Atzmon.”

    Take my advice and don’t.

    The guy is a completely pathological purveyor of rehashed Nazi tropes. Why, he pleads can’t we ask ourselves what the Jews did to deserve the Holocaust?

    He even had an article called “Judea Declares War on Obama” which is straight out of the Barnes Review playbook.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    Angrysoba, yeah, I just learned about this Atzmon guy. From this website. Murray linked to redress.cc, which seems to be a collection point for Atzmon’s hatred.

    All Americans might very well have to answer for the two-term election of that incompetent George Bush – that’s just a given, if one thinks in those terms – but in the same vein, I think all Brits need to seriously apologize for the appointment of the incompetent Craig Murray as ambassador.

    In other words, it would be nice if someone would provide content at weresorryforcraigmurray.com.

    Sorry: .co.uk

    🙂

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Craig Murray deserves a medal for what he did and continues to do. This website is superb and is a locus of engaging and serious political and social discourse.

    Obama – like the Clintons – has proved himself a highly competant imperialist.

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