101 thoughts on “Why Israel Should Know Better

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  • AllanGreen

    Stupid and despicable comparison, unless of course you want to get real and admit that Hamas = Nazis.

    Then you are talking sense Mr. Humanitarian who sheds tears of joy when innocent men are murdered (South Africa, Terreblanche – not a single crime commmitted, simply for being a Bore with a political agenda).

  • Tony

    Who is being despicable here? Craig Murray, the Nazis in Warsaw in the 1930’s, or Israel in Palestine now?

    Two out of three for me – and Craig is 100% fair in his comparison.

    How are Hamas like the Nazis except in one respect? – having been voted in democratically.

    Shame on Israel. Both historically and now you have justifiably so much support, sympathy and empathy from so many corners of the world. Yet you squander it by setting out to crush Palestinians like inferior race cockroaches. Palestine = Lebensraum.

  • StefZ

    The parallels between Militant Zionism and Nazism are there…

    – the belief in racial superiority

    – the practice of collective punishment and erasure of entire communities

    – the denial of deliberate genocide

    – the claim to be the self-appointed bastion of western civilisation against the hordes from the East

    – the settler/ lebensraum thing

    a few days ago I read a press release from Israel which claimed that things can’t be that bad in Gaza because Gaza has expensive restaurants and lovely swimming pools. This creeped me out because it reminded me of the revisionist claim that Auschwitz couldn’t have been all that bad because it too had a swimming pool

  • MJ

    StefZ: yes, I noticed that on your own interesting and amusing blog. Why don’t you put your URL in the available box? Lights under bushels and all that.

  • Duncan McFarlane

    Alan Green “Then you are talking sense Mr. Humanitarian who sheds tears of joy when innocent men are murdered (South Africa, Terreblanche – not a single crime commmitted, simply for being a Bore with a political agenda).”

    Craig actually said he wouldn’t shed any tears for Terreblanche, not that he was happy about it.

    Also i think you mean the neo-nazi Terreblanche was a Boer, though he was definitely a bore as well.

  • StefZ

    @mj – I’ve an aversion to using other folk’s blogs for self-publicity, can’t be arsed to deal with the Haribo kiddies full-time and would like to spare Craig any guilt by association, but ta anyway

  • MJ

    “Terreblanche – not a single crime commmitted”

    AllanGreen should keep up. It has since transpired that TerreBlanche was sexually abusing one of the boys in question. It was self-defence by the sound of it. Oh, hang on, they were only blacks, not Israelis, so that argument doesn’t hold water. Sorry.

  • Hatari

    @AllanGreen

    ‘South Africa, Terreblanche – not a single crime committed, simply for being a Bore’

    Trying to defend the Criminals with omissions, lies deflection what about seems to be the Hasbara way.you forgot to mention that Terre’Blanche spent three years in prison for assaulting a black petrol station worker and the attempted murder of a black security guard in 1996.

  • StefZ

    Here’s a link to some of that crude PR I was talking about…

    ‘Fancy restaurants and Olympic-size swim pools: what the media won’t report about Gaza’

    http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html

    Apparently, Gaza is so full of cakes there simply isn’t enough room for any more humanitarian aid

    What I don’t understand is where the Zionist reputation for sophisticated PR comes from

  • Philip

    The justice of the comparison aside, the Holocaust is no reason at all for Israel to know better, any more than the rape of Nanking is a reason for the Chinese government to play nicely. Governments and the law-abiding citizens who follow them have never seen the horrors of history as reasons to be decent to one another; generally quite the reverse. Two wrongs may not make a right, but various selected wrongs can make an awfully jolly excuse.

  • Michael Petek

    Give over, Craig!

    The Warsaw Ghetto was established on October 16, 1940 and sealed it off on November 16. Average food rations in 1941 for Jews in Warsaw were limited to 186 calories, compared to 1669 calories for gentile Poles and 2,614 calories for Germans. In other words, Jews were allocated less than 12 per cent of Polish rations, and less than 8 per cent of German.

    The only way to avoid being starved to death was to smuggle food in. Nevertheless, people died like flies of starvation and disease in there, and the Germans would shoot anyone entering or leaving it, particularly if they were taking food into it, whether or not they were Red Cross, the UNRWA or anything else.

    The population of the Warsaw Ghetto was 400,000, thirty per cent of the population of Warsaw concentrated on 2.4 per cent of its surface area.

    Of these over 100,000 died due to rampant disease or starvation, as well as random killings, even before the Nazis began deportations on 23 July 1942.

    The other key difference between Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto is that there was a regular rail service to Treblinka, single tickets only, no returns and no seasons.

    Which of you fellow-bloggers think Treblinka was really a shower-bath complex?

    I submit, M’Lud, that only a sicko could have come up with this kind of comparison.

  • warey

    I disagree, Israel shouldn’t be compared to nazi germany. It should be compared to some demonic hybrid of nazi germany and apartheid south africa.

    When interviewing Golda Meir , Alan Hart the ITV news correspondence, said that if Israel continued its policies, people will be talking about israelis in jackboots.

    Golder Meir recoiled in horror. No they couldn’t she replied.

    Welcome to israel 2010

  • kingfelix

    Zionist redux:

    The pictures are completely different because I have decided that I want them to be so.

    In fact, the bottom picture depicts a man and a woman riding a tandem through the French countryside.

  • arsalan

    There is a difference between Nazi Germans and Zionists, and that is gas is less painful than being burnt alive by white phosphorus.

    News

    Gaza patients “forced” to help security services in exchange for Israeli medical treatment

    Merav Sarig

    1 Jerusalem

    The first 150 words of the full text of this article appear below.

    A report issued this week by Physicians for Human Rights-Israel indicates that the Shin Bet security services conduct a policy of forcing patients to provide information as a condition of being allowed to leave the Gaza Strip for medical care.

    According to the human rights organisation the number of Palestinian patients who are summoned for interrogation as a precondition to receiving an exit permit from Gaza for treatment has risen. Between January 2008 and March 2009 at least 438 patients were interrogated by the Shin Bet.

    The report, which was presented this week to the United Nations Committee against Torture, in Geneva, also shows that the Shin Bet has begun interrogating minors in need of medical care, to photograph patients against their will, and to detain patients for undisclosed periods of time. According to testimonies, patients who do not cooperate are returned to Gaza without receiving a permit to exit . . . [Full text of this article]

  • Alex James

    There are an ocean of lies being spread by Zionists across the internet as well as their Zionist owned news media. The fact is that Palestine is being gradually wiped off the map.

  • Dave

    Ah, Michael Petek. Still hawking the sophistry, eh?

    By your reasoning, the Israelis are allowed to kill 5,99,999 Palestinians with impugnity. because that’s less than those who died in the Holocaust.

    In other words, “Israel must be right to blockade the Palestinians, because sometime in the past, Jews had it worse.”

    What fun.

  • Perry L

    Perfect comparison because OBVIOUSLY Israelis are the modern day NAZIS. In fact the Israelis make the Germans look like girl scouts.

  • Arsalan

    Dave when Israel’s body count gets to 6 000 001 he will just use some other excuse to defend them.

  • StefZ

    hmmmm, free passes all round for any psychos who decide to wipe out an ethnic group with a total population of less than six million

  • Ingo

    Russias blockade of all roads to Berlin encouraged the allies to enact the airlift, without it Berlin would have fallen into east German hands.

    When did this one sided blockade, just as Israels, ever lead Russians or east Germans into shooting down those planes, because they were delivering something or other?

    Your angst and paranoia about people’s abillities to use soup cans to make projectiles and ground down pasta as bulking agent, is so far fetched its untrue.

    This is a nation that likes to operate in other peoples backwater, interfere when it suits their policies and/or create some leverage over the agenda of others, whether its violent like in Sabra, Shatila or underhand as in Kashmir.

    A nation that believes it has the right to flaunt its nuclear secrecy,, upholding apartheid regimes like South Africa with their arms and nukes, not to speak of oppressing/impressing everyone with the prospect of using nuclear weapons against its neighbours, has no rights at all to demand to investigate itself.

    And not just one person comes up with this silly self defeasting idea, a de facto introduction by some learned professors, age old university laureates with lenghty letters behind their names, whatever, if they somehow introduce some nutty report on limited first use strikes,etc., then it is seen as enough to introduce a debate, whether nukes in business coffers are a laudable proposition to debate, indeed all things nuclear and with a world audience, as if it is a viable option to calculate in innocent civilian collateral murder, polluting uninvolved third and fourth countries with nuclear fall out, as it suits with all the resulting follow on illness and problems?

    The cabal leading Israel into an uncertain and violent future are causing damage to its world standing, trust and no doubt, business? Palestinians will not go away and will have equal rights, at least, to the land of Palestine.

    I for one can still feel the frustrations that must have left Helen Walters body, when she said what she said, a lifelong of holding back your emotions, when you know what you get to know,i.e. that Israel has misused the worlds provision of a state and should stop acting like a spoiled brat.

  • Arsalan

    If the Israelis killed 11 million, they would just find ways of calculating it to equal less than 6 million.

  • writerman

    As someone with jewish ancestors, I feel the comparisons with the NAZI’s and the horror of the Warsaw Ghetto, are offensive, over-the-top, and inaccurate.

    Israel isn’t really comparable to NAZI Germany. There are profound and important differences. To imply that these differences are not important is foolish.

    Things are bad enough in Gaza without the need to let rhetoric, bordering on hysteria, take over completely. The truth speaks for itself and doesn’t need to be exaggerated beyond reason.

    Because Israeli government propaganda is so pervasive, blatant, and false, it doesn’t follow that one should adopt precisely the same methods to counter it, on the contrary, one shouldn’t stoop to such methods.

  • writerman

    Unfortunately, states have very selective memories for the most part. Neither are they moral entities that ‘learn’ and have ‘conciences’. The past, or history, is a useful ‘tool’ to be exploited in the present, to tell a story about… NOW. That this story is often false, or a mixture of fact and legend, a myth, doesn’t matter, as long as it works.

    What are states for? States are ‘machines’ designed for control and conquest. For this one needs an impressive ideology, often based on land, blood, or ‘religion’. Then one creates an army and once you’ve got an army it’s usually used to expand the power and territory of the state.

    Israel is no exception here. It’s just a very new state and therefore it’s ‘normal’ state characteristics are so much more extreme and obvious. In this sense it reminds one of Prussia or the United States. Agressive, effective, expanding, ruthless, powers in their time. Or the British Empire, when it was on a role.

    What we seem to think are special characteristics of Israel or even, God forbid, ‘jews’ are nothing of the sort. They are the characteristics of new states, which are like teenagers armed with machine guns and high on crack cocaine.

  • writerman

    It’s odd really, given their status and wealth, that so many members of my family were so enamoured with the ideas surrounding the political and social concept of anarchy. Perhaps it was because so many of them seem to have been a strange mix of idealists and cynics, and that they seemingly never took things very seriously, especially not states and their ideology. Our family motto should have been, as one of them used to say, my country is in my pocket, meaning his wallet.

    But then there were the other lot, the soldiers, who seemed to despise the ‘money men’ for some reason, as if killing was more truthful and noble than creating wealth and profitting from it.

    What’s strange is why are so many people so ready to kill and die for a pack of lies? A pack of lies that comes out of the mouth of the state. Over and over again they do it, in absurd war after war. Dying and killing in their millions, tens of millions, for ‘fairytales’ imprinted on their brains by… by people like me, or at least the person I might have become in an earlier time. Now, I’m just a black sheep.

  • arsalan

    Writerman call it for what it is, whether it is offensive or not.

    A Rabbi actually gave a talk in our mosque

    about what happening to the Muslims now being exactly like what he experienced from the Nazis.

    This is what Norman Finklestein said to a bitch who got upset about the comparison.

    http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=104552879570118

    If Zionists do not want to be compared to Nazis, they should stop behaving like Nazis.

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