101 thoughts on “Why Israel Should Know Better

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  • StefZ

    whilst I agree with a lot of what you say writerman you shoot yourself in the foot with an opening line which at least implies that your ancestry gives weight to your opinion in some way

    and then you talk about history being invoked as a useful tool

  • StefZ

    The significance of identifying parallels with past horrors is that some of the people commiting present horrors argue that what has gone in the past somehow validates what is being done today

    this is blatant hypocrisy and deserves to be identified as such

    and one of the reasons why I personally object to what is being done today is that, yes, I have been taught some of the lessons of the past. What I haven’t learned to do is to be as selective as some Zionists in applying them

  • Arsalan

    The Zionists like bringing comparisons.

    They call anyone criticism anything they do a Nazi and compare it to Nazism.

    So we have to compare what they are doing to Nazism, because in a lot of ways what the Zionists have done is worse.

    Burning people alive with white phosphorous, something that burns to the bone. If it enters flesh it can carry on burning within the flesh for days after words.

    Seems a lot more painful and cruel than gassing people to death.

    What the Zionist did in Gaza wasn’t a fight, it wasn’t a war, it was just an incineration.

    Where every white phosphorous shell was made in America.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXg0QulzxZ4&feature=related

  • StefZ

    the Nazis slaughtered people in all sorts of ways; including burning people alive in buildings

    and I doubt very much that if opponents of Israel would view the killings in the middle east any more favourably if gas was used

  • Ian M

    More important information as bloggers take apart the Israeli version of the flotilla murders:

    http://aliabunimah.posterous.com/mavi-marmara-was-heading-away-from-israelgaza

    Thanks to some investigative work, it appears that the flotilla was sailing AWAY from Israel, precisely to avoid confrontation, particularly at night. It further appears that the IDF video snippet which attempted to put them in the victim role they love was timed at one hour AFTER the attack had started. The only conclusion to be drawn is that a lethal attack was planned, under cover of darkness and communication silence, and that this proceeded, even though the ships were going away from Israel. The whole thing stinks.

  • Mac

    @writerman, Yes you may think of the comparison as “offensive, over the top & inaccurate”, but you are not a Palestinian. There is no measuring index for suffering, the pain of somebody being tortured to death, or feels in seeing their love-ones made to suffer, and/or murdered, does not vary from place to place, or from one time to another. Rather it is a universal unbearable anguish that is part of our humanity, and those that argue that one particular crime is greater than another on the basis of numbers, or methods, or using any other factor in seeking to differentiate , have not only lost the ability to emphasise on the human individual level, but have also lost the respect for the sanctity of other humans, because there is no difference between one life and another, or to paraphrase the Koran, to kill one man is like killing the whole of mankind.

  • Anonymous

    Children account for roughly a third of the dead and wounded in Gaza. Since 5 February there have been no new official updates from the Palestinian Ministry of Health on casualties and injuries in Gaza. The figure remains of 1,440 Palestinians dead, of whom 431 are children and 114 are women. This number does not include those who have died due to lack of access to regular health care. The number of injuries still stands at 5,380, of whom 1,872 are children and 800 are women.

    Three Israeli civilians were killed and 183 injured since 27 December by rocket and mortar fire by Palestinian militants from Gaza.

    Shelter:

    As at 9 February, three non-school UNRWA shelters remain open for 388 displaced people, including 217 children, as reported by OCHA and Save the Children.

    Thousands of Gazans remain homeless.

    However, most Gazans who have suffered displacement have been able to stay with host families. These families are now faced with severe shortages of food, blankets, water and electricity (OCHA).

    Priority needs for the population of Gaza include blankets, mattresses, plastic sheeting, kitchen kits, hygiene kits, water tanks, clothing and tents.

    Cash:

    As OCHA reports, Israel allowed the transfer of the equivalent of USD 42 million from banks in the West Bank to Gaza on 6 February. As reported by the Bank of Palestine, this money transfer will enable the Palestinian Authority to pay the salaries of its 70,000 Gaza-based employees. Israel last allowed cash into the Gaza Strip in mid-December 2008. More cash flow to Gaza is needed to reactivate the private sector and prevent increasing dependence on aid.

    Electricity and Fuel:

    Petrol and diesel for public use were last allowed into Gaza on 2 November 2008. As a result, all of the 240 Gaza fuel stations have closed. The Gas Station Owners Association reports a significant drop in the amount of fuel smuggled through the Gaza-Egyptian border since the beginning of February, largely due to the destruction of tunnels by Israel demolition.

    Sources in Rafah suggest an overall decrease in the amount of merchandise being smuggled into Gaza through the tunnels due to the ongoing Israeli aerial bomb attacks. According to OCHA reports, the Israeli Air Force conducted a number of bombing raids in February/March/April, targeting tunnels under the Gaza-Egyptian borders, as well as buildings and open areas in southern Gaza killing 23 people including 11 children.

    Most of Gazan households are receiving only intermittent electricity and unscheduled power cuts continue. Gaza’s power utility, GEDCO, is in urgent need of materials and concrete to repair damage to the network by Israeli bombs.

    Access:

    NGOs continue to face difficulties accessing the Gaza Strip to carry out humanitarian work. Humanitarian personnel are only allowed to enter Gaza through the Erez crossing after receiving prior clearance by the Israeli authorities.

    Access constraints continue to hinder relief efforts in Gaza. Urgently needed construction materials to rebuild destroyed schools, hospitals, clinics and homes are not allowed to Gaza as well as necessary educational supplies for children in Gaza. Spare parts and fuel for the power plant, hospitals and water and sewage treatment facilities have also been blocked, in addition to plastic sheeting which is used for plastic bags to distribute food.

    According to UNSCO and OCHA, approximately 10,000 truckloads of goods entered Gaza in August 2000, while approximately 1,000 truckloads entered Gaza in January 2010. In the meantime, the population increased by approximately 24 percent.

    Help is urgently needed. Please do something to help us.

  • Mr M

    Nice try Leokid. Liked both of your historical comparisons by pictures. Those young men grinning and mocking the dispossessed Arab woman still haunts me. She was even wearing those dresses with the shoulder pads which my mother is so fond of no matter how retro they look.

  • Michael Petek

    Dave and Arsalan, I won’t accuse you of sounding more stupid than you are, because I’m convinced that you are in fact imbecilically stupid.

    Warsaw – population 1,711,446; area 200 square miles; density 8557 per square mile

    Gaza Strip – population 1,500,202; area 139 square miles; density 10,793 per square mile

    Warsaw Ghetto – population 400,000; area 1.3 square miles; density 307,697 per square mile

    Anyone who says that the Israelis are treating Palestinians exactly as the Nazis treated Jews is, frankly, a liar. Every year the number of Palestinians alive is greater than it was the previous year. From 1941 to the last gassings in Auschwitz in November 1944 the Nazis had killed near enough half of all the Jews in the world by all sorts of gruesome methods including industrialised mass slaughter.

    The only reasons Craig or anyone else could have for drawing such demented comparisons between the Israelis and the Nazis is, firstly, gratuitously to hurt Jews, especially those who personally suffered under Nazi rule, and secondly to convince themselves and others that the Israelis are equally as evil and odious as the Nazis, from which it is but a short step to concluding that they are indeed yids and kikes and that Hitler was right.

  • kingfelix

    We have a winner.

    I wrote : Zionist redux:

    “The pictures are completely different because I have decided that I want them to be so.

    In fact, the bottom picture depicts a man and a woman riding a tandem through the French countryside.”

    And here we have the first person whose ideology is so strong they can’t see a child in the bottom picture!

    Amazing. What is then? A vase of flowers?

  • MJ

    “Every year the number of Palestinians alive is greater than it was the previous year”.

    A shocking statistic. The Israelis clearly are not culling them fast enough. No wonder they target pregnant women.

    “…gratuitously to hurt Jews, especially those who personally suffered under Nazi rule”

    Or perhaps rather a sharp reminder, to jolt them into some awareness of what is being done in their name.

    “…to convince themselves and others that the Israelis are equally as evil and odious as the Nazis”

    What, if anything, could the Israelis do that would convince you that they had become as odious the Nazis? I would seriously like to know.

    “from which it is but a short step to concluding that they are indeed yids and kikes and that Hitler was right”.

    And you accuse Arsalan of being “imbecilically stupid”! What underpins Craig’s post is obviously the conviction that Hitler was wrong. What beggars belief is that his methods are being increasingly adopted by his victims, just as child-abuse victims so often become abusers themselves in later years.

    Craig’s comment makes the point perfectly: “We hoped the world would never forget. How tragic that it is Israel that has forgotten most completely”. i think you hsve to be pretty twisted not to appreciate the point.

  • Neil Barker

    “And here we have the first person whose ideology is so strong they can’t see a child in the bottom picture!”

    I see an adult. You see what you’re told to see.

  • Hatari

    @ Niel Barker

    ‘Can’t see any child in the Gaza picture.’

    Allow me remind you of few others than. Unless you have selective vision and compassion like the Director General of the BBC.There are volumes of crimes by Israelis here are few. Just like Nazis who never saw Jews as humans the Israels do not see Arabs as humans.

    A Gaza Diary

    Scenes from the Palestinian Uprising, An exploration of life in a Gaza refugee camp, by Chris Hedges of the NY Times. “I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport.”

    http://www.harpers.org/online/gaza_diary/

    Gaza Children in Crisis

    Save the Children needs your support to help us meet the most critical needs of children and families in Gaza with vital food, water and medical supplies.

    http://www.savethechildren.org/ emergencies/ middle-east-crisis/ gaza-children-in-crisis.html

    Children of Gaza :: Home

    In January 2009 over 1300 Palestinians were killed in Gaza. Around 300 of them children. … of Gaza gives us a unique insight into the impact of war on vulnerable young minds.

    http://www.childrenofgazafund.org

    Children of Gaza – Worldnews Network

    Like a number of other children who witnessed horrific events during last year’s 23-day Israeli military …

    http://www.childrenofgaza.net

    Al-Ahram Weekly Gaza’s suffering children

    The Israeli occupation and its relentless attacks destroy the mental health and lives of children of Gaza, writes Saleh Al-Naami

    weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/890/re1.htm

    Video: Children of Gaza

    guardian.co.uk

    A freelance filmmaker in Gaza shot this material for Save the Children at a UN-supported school for pupils displaced from their homes

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2009/jan/13/gaza

    YouTube – More children among Gaza dead

    Palestinian children are increasingly among the dead as the Gaza death toll continues to rise.One man has lost his entire family – including children, wife,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5wrwZlwAq8

    A Jew’s Prayer for the Children of Gaza

    A Jew’s prayer for the children of Gaza-News and commentary relating to events in Israel, the occupied territories, and the world, along with an archive of past issues … a realistic prayer for Gaza

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052871.html

    Israel launched its campaign of terror against Gaza on December 27, 2008. … The children of Gaza who survived this modern day holocaust are increasingly …

    http://www.savegazachildren.com

    Israeli Massacre of Palestinian Children in Gaza

    Israel has now massacred over 300 ; Palestinian children in Gaza … To add to the monstrous nature of the onslaught of the Gaza Strip, Israeli armed forces are utilizing white phosphorus bombs

    http://www.aztlan.net/gaza/gaza_massacre_of_children.php

    For Children of Gaza, Scars to Last a Lifetime – washingtonpost.com

    GAZA CITY, Jan. 25 — One by one, the seventh-graders rose from their old wooden desks and, in toneless voices that betrayed neither sadness nor surprise, spoke of horrible things.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2009/ 01/ 25/ AR2009012502049.html –

    Report: IDF killed women and children with white flags in Gaza – Israel News, Ynetnews

    More than six months after Israel’s Gaza offensive, Operation Cast Lead, accusations are still being leveled against the IDF’s combat ethic. Human Rights Watch published a report Thursday detailing testimonies of seven incidents in which Palestinian civilians in the Gaza

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3761371,00.html

    Killing the Children of Gaza

  • Dave

    Ah, Michael Petek. Lapsing from sophistry to ad hominem attacks. The former suited you better. How frustrating it must be to have such strong opinions, yet have no facts to argue with. Like an armless man who’s fallen in a deep hole, you just can’t get yourself free.

    Face it. You are here because you are trying to convince yourself that Israel is not acting evilly. You are smart enough to know you will never change the mind of anyone here, so why else do you come back? I do not believe you are one of the paid trolls.

    I believe, with all sincerity, that there is a sane man inside you, trying desperately to get out.

  • Michael Petek

    MJ asks:

    “What, if anything, could the Israelis do that would convince you that they had become as odious the Nazis? I would seriously like to know.”

    The Israelis could do the following:

    They could launches an official campaign to deprive Israeli Arabs of all political rights and all legal protection.

    Then they could slander and set out to wipe out all the Arabs, to burn every trace of them and their beliefs from the face of the earth, to make it as though they never were and ensure they never will be again.

    To convince me that they had become as odious as the Nazis, the Israelis could organise deportations of Arabs from Gaza to extermination centres, say, inside Israel. They could euthanise their sick, conduct medical experiments on them, turn their skins into lampshades, their heads into Ilse Koch paperweights, and their innards into soap.

    Next time rockets are fired from Gaza into Israel – which act would, of course, be the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising – the Israelis could send their military into Gaza to kill or deport to extermination every Arab man, woman and child. They could impose a death penalty on Israelis who hid Arabs or helped them to escape.

    Once finished, the Israelis could raze every last building in the Gaza Strip, turning it into a moonscape resembling post-Bomb Hiroshima. See the photos in the Wikipedia entry on the Warsaw Ghetto.

    To convince me that Israelis are as odious as the Nazis, they could do things you can read about under the Wikipedia entry on the ‘Armenian Genocide’.

  • eddie

    Craig – your comparisons are odious. To compare the Warsaw Ghetto, which was a holding pen for the gas chambers, with Gaza is specious and illiterate.

  • Tony

    http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100609/OPINION/706089918/1080

    Worthwhile reading. Cook explains that within Israel there is a strong belief that Israel exists fundamentally to realise Jewish power and that Israel embodies the Jewish people’s collective experience as the eternal victims of history.

    For the rest of the world as on-lookers on the recent deadly commando raid, the decades-long relentless ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, and the ceaseless bloodlust for wars with its neighbours the conclusion can only be that the world can no longer afford to indulge let alone endorse, fund and participate in these delusions.

    Israel’s delusions may justify endless war in the Middle East for themselves, Iran next as our leaders take us into another war like mindless nodding dogs, but I for one have no such deathwish.

  • the_leander

    “They could launches an official campaign to deprive Israeli Arabs of all political rights and all legal protection.”

    As opposed an unofficial one that just just deprives some of their rights and most of their land as it is now?

    “Then they could slander and set out to wipe out all the Arabs, to burn every trace of them and their beliefs from the face of the earth, to make it as though they never were and ensure they never will be again.”

    On schedule and rocking. Did you hear the claims recently by some high ranking Israeli official stating that he wanted to do precisely this?

    “To convince me that they had become as odious as the Nazis, the Israelis could organise deportations of Arabs from Gaza to extermination centres,”

    Well keep the current crop of lunatics in power and I’m sure that’ll happen given enough time. Maybe if you folk stopped voting in terrorists like those found in Likud you might avoid going further down this road?

    “Next time rockets are fired from Gaza into Israel – which act would, of course, be the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising – the Israelis could send their military into Gaza to kill or deport to extermination every Arab man, woman and child.”

    Why bother sending in troops when you can bomb them with high explosives and white phosphorous? It’s so much more effective and cost efficient. Then you send in your troops to scoop up the remains… Not unlike what you did earlier this year in fact.

    “Once finished, the Israelis could raze every last building in the Gaza Strip”

    Well sooner or later, given that you fellas refuse to allow any building materials into the place whilst at the same time bombing the ever loving snot out of suspected terrorist bases you will eventually run out of buildings to bomb.

  • Redders

    @Michael Petek

    You have evidently taken some time to consider this; is it what would convince you or what you desire?

  • Redders

    Man oh Man! Petek represents blind religious fanaticism. No wonder he can’t see what’s happening in Gaza, he’s not a Zionist, he’s a Zealot.

  • Arsalan

    Michael Petek

    If Israel did all that wouldn’t you wouldn’t you continue to support Israel as you believe it they are the master race, the choosen people?

    Or would you stop believing that it is a religious obligation to support them at that point?

  • angrysoba

    “@Michael Petek

    You have evidently taken some time to consider this; is it what would convince you or what you desire?”

    Well, that is pretty sick and snide.

    Michael Petek is clearly a religious loon but he is correct, as is writerman and eddie, for pointing out that the Gaza = Warsaw Ghetto comparisons are outrageous.

    There were 4000 Jews dying in the Warsaw Ghetto a year which translates as 10 per cent of the population or 100 per thousand dead.

    Look at the comparative figures here for the Gaza Strip:

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html

    As with writerman, I am against the Gaza blockade but the comparisons with the Nazi Holocaust are stupid and counterproductive.

  • ingo

    I do like the candles and commemorative plates of this obscure and wishfull commercial site, thats all it is.

    Michels seems to attarct the nutjobs that beleieve in some way thst they are part of the state of Israel, being jewish over seven corners.

    No doubt there will be Palestinians who object to his defiling of official flags, no doubt there will be some who might not want to pay up for the gory plates.

    @angrysoba. Go ask a psychologist and see what he tells you about abusing fathers who themselves have been abused and then have a rethink.

    There is only one argument supporting your position and that is the letter sent by Itzak Shamir to Hitler in 1941, then a member of the Stern gang, so much saying that ‘the zionist movement would be prepared to be Hitlers stallwart in the middle east, looking after the third Reichs concerns in Palestine’, to which he received no answer.

    It shows a lot about the similar mindset that led these two fascists organisations, one being the Arian race never to be bettered and the others the chosen ones, here to lead us all.

    Which one was first deluded in their ignorance of others in the world community, I cannot say, but with hindsight, Balfour was the master of delusions and should have never been listened to.

  • Craig

    angrysoba

    I have not made any comparison with the Holocaust. I have suggested that the profound experience of suffering of the Jewish people ought to make them more sympathetic to the sufferings of others – not deermined to ratchet up that pressure.

    Where do you think the crowded people of Gaza came from, by the way?

  • angrysoba

    “There were 4000 Jews dying in the Warsaw Ghetto a year which translates as 10 per cent of the population or 100 per thousand dead.”

    Sorry, that should be 4000 people a MONTH which translates as 10 per cent per YEAR.

    The Warsaw ghetto’s population increased due to deportations TO the ghetto. Until, of course, they were sent off for execution.

  • angrysoba

    “I have not made any comparison with the Holocaust. I have suggested that the profound experience of suffering of the Jewish people ought to make them more sympathetic to the sufferings of others – not deermined to ratchet up that pressure.”

    If you mean that Jewish people ought to have a lot more solidarity with other people’s suffering and not inflict it themselves then we end up with a chicken and egg question.

    Using your argument, which I don’t endorse myself, I could say that the Arab people should have been more sympathetic to those driven off their land in the way Palestinians were by not having, say, Jews driven out of Tripoli, Baghdad and Cairo.

    I don’t accept the idea that “the Arab people” is homogenous, though.

    “Where do you think the crowded people of Gaza came from, by the way?”

    Many of them are refugees, of course.

    Some cynical Israelis might think this, “If only Egypt had taken Gaza back after the Six Day War then no one would actually care about the people of Gaza at all and it wouldn’t be our problem.”

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