101 thoughts on “Why Israel Should Know Better

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  • Michael Petek

    the_leander, aerial bombing isn’t as effective as direct shelling, deportation, starvation and the propagation of infectious disease. The Israelis have been occupying or blockading Gaza continuously for forty-three years. If they are implicated in genocide, they are comically inept.

    The Armenian Genocide claimed 1.5 million Armenians – the same as the population of Gaza – within three years.

    The Warsaw Ghetto was sealed off on 16 November 1940. Over the next twenty months a quarter of its population died of starvation and disease.

    By the commencement of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising on 19 April 1943 only 69,000 were left alive. The uprising was put down on 16 May 1943. 13,000 of the survivors were shot in situ, 56,000 taken away and gassed.

    If the Israelis had been on the same form as the Germans, the Arabs of Gaza would have been extinct by Christmas 1969.

    Your ‘sooner or later they’ll get round to it’ makes me wonder whether you’re a clairvoyant.

    Now, let’s examine whether the land is really the property of the Arabs. Under Islamic law non-Muslims are prohibited absolutely from owning any land at all. Under Israeli law, they’re not.

    Under Roman Law all provincial land (outside Italy) in the Empire was publicly owned, but could be held privately under long leases, the last of which expired centuries ago.

    When the Muslim Arabs invaded and conquered the Levant from the Romans they did so as aggressors who would have been the Chapter VII business of the UN Security Council, had it existed then.

    Official acts by the aggressor purporting to dispose of publicly owned land (treated under Islamic law as as ‘fay’ or war booty) are invalid and void. No conveyance into private ownership can be valid save under the hand of the British Mandate or the State of Israel.

    Anonymous, I’m not going to discuss theological subtleties with you, you wouldn’t understand them. Save that I only turn into a religious nutjob when I’m provoked by vermin like Hamas.

    Their demented and gratuitous Jew-hatred spouted incessantly over their public media is similar to the poison the Serbian media broadcast to prepare the Serbian people for war and genocide against the Croats, Bosnians and Kosovans during the 1990s. I never heard of any comparable anti-Serb propaganda from the Middle East even when Sarajevo was being shelled for months on end.

    So that’s where the ancestors of the ‘crowded people of Gaza’ came from. By the way, Craig, Gaza is no more crowded than Warsaw. Not the ghetto, the city. Similar area, similar population.

  • Arsalan

    Michael Petek

    “If they are implicated in genocide, they are comically inept.”

    When people call the Zionists Nazis they are saying they are as evil as Nazis, not that they are as efficient as Nazis.

    No one is saying the Zionists make the trains run on time.

    But even so it doesn’t mean Israel is so hopeless inept, because Nazi Germany had a man power of over 90 million to do what they did, more if you include its alias who are of great significance remembering that the worst concentration camps were outside of Germany.

    Both ideologies, Nazism and Zionism are a hybrid ideology of nationalism and socialism.

    But in some sense I agree with you that it isn’t accurate to call Zionists Nazis, because it is more accurate to call Nazis Zionists.

    This is because Nazis copied Zionism not the other way around.

    If you take Zionism.

    State that the Germans are the chosen people, or the master race as they called themselves.

    State that the father land is the promised land.

    State that the Jews are the Amalakites.

    Whats the difference?

    They are both the same in ever way, the only difference between the two is the means at their disposal.

  • Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    My mothers constant companion and good friend “Tad” survived the Holocaust because his mother fled Poland and took the family to France. His father died in a concentration camp.

    Speaking to Tad I realized that many people are not aware that millions of victims of the Holocaust were NOT Jewish.

    In fact 3 million Polish Christian, Catholics and others died. Why are those forced to wear the ‘P’ badge or be shot always referred to as the ‘others’ and nobody remembers the words of Heinrich Himmler who said on August 23rd 1939:

    “All Poles will disappear from the world…. It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles.”

    Perhaps the world should know these facts:

    Young Polish men were forcibly drafted into the German army.

    The Polish language was forbidden. Only the German language was allowed.

    All secondary schools and colleges were closed.

    The Polish press was liquidated.

    Libraries and bookshops were burned.

    Polish art and culture were destroyed.

    Polish churches and snyagogues were burned.

    Most of the priests were arrested and sent to concentration camps.

    Street signs were either destroyed or changed to new German names. Polish cities and towns were renamed in German.

    Ruthless obliteration of all traces of Polish history and culture.

    Why did many Poles remain in Britain?

    Because their country was occupied by the Soviet Union.

  • angrysoba

    “Speaking to Tad I realized that many people are not aware that millions of victims of the Holocaust were NOT Jewish.”

    And…?

  • Michael Petek

    Arsalan,the difference between Zionism and Nazism is that Zionism is nothing more than Jewish nationalism,and it can take as many forms and expressions – civic or ethnic – as the nationalism of any other people.

    Nazism is not the same as German nationalism, because if it were then German nationhood would be illegitimate. It is based on purity of blood and race, which has no counterpart in Judaism, because anyone of any race can become a Jew by conversion.

    In biblical Judaism any foreigner could settle permanently in Israel provided that he agreed to serve the God of Israel and abstained from the capital offences of blasphemy, idolatry and trafficking in false prophecy.

    Only two things were barred to him. He could not be made King, and he could not eat the Passover. Apart from that, there was one law for everyone.

    What you are saying is that you can be a German patriot without being a Nazi, so a German can love his country and love as part of an independent German nation.

    But if you are an Israeli patriot as a German, or a Briton, or a Pole, or a Frenchman is innocuously for his country, then you are necessarily a Nazi as well as a kike.

    Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said a few years ago that the worst crimes of antisemites in the past – racism, ethnic cleansing, attempted genocide, crimes against humanity – are now attributed to the Jews and the state of Israel, so that if you are against Nazism, you must ipso facto be utterly opposed to the Jews.

  • Michael Petek

    Spot the traces of blood-and-soil nationalism (fascism) in this:

    “Therefore, on this day unlike all others, November 15, 1988, as we stand at the threshold of a new dawn, in all honor and modesty we humbly bow to the sacred spirits of our fallen ones, Palestinain and Arab, by the purity of whose sacrifice for the homeland our sky has been illuminated and our Land given life. Our hearts are lifted up and irradiated by the light emanating from the much blessed intifada, from those who have endured and have fought the fight of the camps, of dispersion, of exile, from those who have borne the standard for freedom, our children, our aged, our youth, our prisoners, detainees and wounded, all those ties to our sacred soil are confirmed in camp, village, and town. We render special tribute to that brave Palestinian Woman, guardian of sustenance and Life, keeper of our people’s perennial flame. To the souls of our sainted martyrs, the whole of our Palestinian Arab people that our struggle shall be continued until the occupation ends, and the foundation of our sovereignty and independence shall be fortified accordingly.”

    Five points if you can name the document.

  • BP

    Why should Israel behave when there is no pressure to do so?

    Israel was born out of abuse. It is not by any means unusual that the abused has become the abuser. In addition they have been given a ‘blank cheque’ by the USA in much the same manner as Germany did to Austria prior to the First World War. America’s military strength and its liberal use of the Veto means Israel is untouchable. Just like the school bully’s effeminate side-kick they are more aggressive than the bully himself. The real villain here is the USA and if they are not resisted the Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds or exterminated. If you are not disposed to consider the fate of small powerless cultures you should at least be concerned about the destabilising effect of Israeli expansionism. It may be that World War three has already begun.

  • Michael Petek

    My point is, anonymous, that phrases like:

    ” . . we humbly bow to the sacred spirits of our fallen ones, Palestinain and Arab, by the purity of whose sacrifice for the homeland our sky has been illuminated and our Land given life.”

    “Our hearts are lifted up and irradiated by the light emanating from the much blessed intifada . . . ”

    speak the language of blood sacrifice from which a nation draws its existence and life. German Nazism had a similar theme, as did the genocidal Serbian nationalism of the 20th century and the 1990s.

    Serbian nationalists have a similar preoccupation with the Battle of Kosovo polje of 1389 as a blood sacrifice which sustains the Serbian nation and which must be perpetuated in the present by those who volunteer to kill and to die.

    Why do you think Hamas love death the way the rest of us love life. And if they’re in love with death, why not let the Israelis arrange the wedding?

    Who do these sacrificers think they are? Jesus Christ?

    And who does this mysterious Palestinian Woman (capitalised) think she is? The Virgin Mary?

  • Arsalan

    MP

    Israel doesn’t only have a sectarian aliment in awarding nationality. Like Nazi Germany it has a racial element.

    And the racial element takes precedence in Zionism over the sectarian element because the founder of Zionism, Theodor Hertzel was an Atheist.

    You said John Sacks Said:

    “are now attributed to the Jews and the state of Israel, so that if you are against Nazism, you must ipso facto be utterly opposed to the Jews.”

    I reject that statement from that Zionist. By denouncing Zionism as Nazism I don’t denounce Jews as Nazis. I denounce you as a Nazi.

    And you don’t claim to be a Jew.

    I denounce the Ideology made by the Atheist Theodor Hertzel as Nazism and Zionism, and he believed in Atheism not Judaism.

    So it is you, him and people who believe in him that I denounce as racists and Nazis not Jews and Judaism.

    Not Jews like this who believe in their religion and visibly follow it:

    http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

    http://www.nkusa.org/

    I have said it before, there is no such thing as a Zionist Jew, because someone can only believe in Zionism if they reject Judaism. And the founder of Zionism did exactly that, he rejected Judaism, He rejected who you call the God of Israel.

    And that is what every Jew would need to do to become a Zionist because Jews believe they are only allowed to form a state after the coming of the Prophet, who they reject. So if they don’t accept Jesus, they reject their scripture by becoming Zionist.

    And you know as well as I do, few Zionist believe in God, let alone their scripture.

    You know as well as I do, for the majority of Zionist, it is all about race and nothing about religion.

    It is for the religious Jews, most if not all of whom are Anti Zionist who consider Judaism to be spirituality and not nationality.

    And in the face of mutual excommunication, I am going to consider the ones who visibly look like Jews and follow the classical Rabbis as the example of true Judaism over the non-religious followers of an open Atheist.

  • Michael Petek

    You denounce me as a Nazi, Arslan, and I denounce you as an infidel!

  • Arsalan

    Micheal coming from you I will take that as a complement.

    To you I am an infidel because I am a Muslim.

    The question you need to ask yourself is do the Zionist you exhult as the chosen people consider you to be anything but an infidal?

    They don’t even see you as a monotheist!

    Even mainstream Christians don’t regard your little cult to be anything but a Heracy.

    Do you know what mainstream Churchs call Christian Zionists?

    They call you the church of the AntiChrist!

    You and your beliefs have nothing to do with Christianity and have never had anything to do with Christianity.

    I don’t need to call you an infidel, because you and your cult have already been declared infidels by the people whose religion you claim to be a part of.

    The Question you need to ask yourself, is, how many people are they that do not regard you as an infidel?

    Are there any?

  • arsalan

    Michael your view of Muslims is the Nazi view of Jews.

    What other name do you want me to use for you.

    I can’t call you a christian, because as I have said before, there is nothing Christian about you.

    I would view calling you a christian as an insult to all those who try to follow Christ.

    Because I don’t believe you take your orders from Christ, instead you take your orders from people who reject Christ.

    I don’t take your statement that I am an infidel as an insult, I take it as a statement of fact from your prospective.

    You believe Christ is God, and the son of God, I believe he is a Prophet of God. So to you I am not a believer, that is a statement of fact and common sense.

    In the same light, from my prospective, you are a Nazi. As I have mentioned before the founders of Zionism was an Atheist. So it is all about racism and little about sectarianism. Zionism and Nazism are the same ideology, so from my prospective, and this prospective is shared by Jews who actually believe in their scripture is that Zionists are Nazis.

    Don’t take it as an insult, it is a statement of fact from my prospective.

    It shouldn’t upset you, I am not accusing you of wanting Jews dead by the statement. Just Muslims, and to you they don’t matter do they?

  • Michael Petek

    I don’t particularly want Muslims dead, Arslan. During the Bosnian and Kosovo wars I stood with them and against the Serbs, because these Muslims had done nothing do deserve death and depredation.

    What I want from Muslims is for them to stop waging armed jihad.

    Hamas obviously can’t stop on principle, so my next demand of this bunch of sissies is that they change their religion.

  • Arsalan

    Michael

    I call that “Sit back and let us kill you”.

    I’m sure the Serbs would have loved it if the Muslims of Bosnia and Kosovo “stop waging armed jihad.”.

    Look if you are against fighting make a start by telling your people to stop their “stop waging armed jihad.” in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Don’t try pretending to be some sort of tolerant liberal now, I can cut and past some of your earlier posts from other threads if I could be bothered.

    But I am not, because you know what you wrote and so do I.

    I have talked to enough Christian Zionists in the real world to know where you stand on this. And you know where I stand.

    We both know that none of this has anything to do with Hamas, because Hamas only one the election a couple of years ago, before they did, Fatah was the excuse the zionists used. And before Fatah existed it was another excuse.

    Before the Palestinians had guns and suicide bombs, Israel used stone throwing children as the excuse to shoot people, before children picked up stones it was another excuse.

    We both know, it is about the Christians and Muslims being there, they being means Israel is not a Democracy and a Jewish state. Because they are not the majority.

    Making life hard, and causing people to leave is what it is all about.

    It might not be gas chambers, but both have the same purpose.

    Be honest, do you agree with the Israeli right that the Palestinians including the ones with Israeli citizenship should just pack up and leave?

    I know enough about your beliefs to know that you look forward to what true Christians and Muslims dread. You look forward to the rapture and the arrival of the Antichrist.

    and that is why you support Israel.

    Your support has nothing to do with the scripture, because Israel does not honor the scripture at all, they don’t honor their own scripture and you are crazy if you think they honor yours.

    Israel is ruled by the an Amalgamation of Nationalism and Socialism that I call Nazism, not the Laws of the Torah or even the Talmud.

    And you know this.

    You will use your “armed jihad.” to propagate Israeli interests. And If I told you and Israel to use pacifism against us instead we would be laughed at.

    So don’t expect any other response from me, when you tell us to respond to what Israel throws at us with “stop waging armed jihad.” and this goes for the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq too.

    I will tell you what, you use your way and we will use ours.

    And my way is not hamas and the firecrackers they through in to Israel.

    Because as you know they achieve nothing. Both Israel and Hamas don’t want to admit it, but those bangs are nothing more than a nuisance.

    My solution is one that works. A reunification of Muslim lands followed by an invasion.

    If it results in a defeat, than repetitions until there is a success. and only one success is required.

    What happens afterwords is what we can talk about now. If people like me run the state, Jews and others will be able to live where ever they want with maximum autonomy as equal citizens. The ones that want to remain can remain.

    But I will will admit, not every Muslim thinks like me. So people like you better pray it is people like me who take control of the Islamic world and not Muslims who think like you.

  • Michael Petek

    The Muslims of Bosnia and Kosovo weren’t waging armed jihad, it was a war for survival. It wasn’t their agenda to impose Islamic law, and they haven’t done it to this day.

    Hamas have explicitly chosen to wage religious war to reduce Christians and Jews to subservience and dhimmitude. Those who elected them have to take responsibility for this. If that is their choice, then Israel and Egypt can crush them.

  • Michael Petek

    Very interesting post from Nonie Darwish:

    “Just look at our Islamic law books and see the most cruel and unusual punishments ever created in any culture on earth. Only a culture that demands war and terror can promote such cruelty.

    As to your question about hating my father, again I want to assure you that I adore and respect my father more than all of the people of Gaza. Actually I love him and wish him heaven not because he killed Jews, but because he was a good human being who was respected by many including the Israeli soldiers who killed him. He was known even to Israel as a cut above his peers and had integrity and honor. My father was the victim of the blood-thirsty culture of death all around him. He is one of the many thousands and even millions of victims of the jihad ideology, practiced over the last 1400 years.”

    Read the whole thing here:

    http://arabsforisrael.com/

  • Arsalan

    “The Muslims of Bosnia and Kosovo weren’t waging armed jihad, it was a war for survival. It wasn’t their agenda to impose Islamic law, and they haven’t done it to this day.”

    It is not up to you, an Islam hater who defines Jihad. It is our scripture, and according to our scripture the attack which the Surbs inflicted on the Muslims of Bosnia made Jihad compulsory.

    And that is why Muslims from all over the world flocked there to fight with their Bosnian brothers, even though they knew they would be imprisoned, tortured and even executed by their Pro-American governments when they return home.

    “Hamas have explicitly chosen to wage religious war to reduce Christians and Jews”

    Where do you get this nonsense from? Are you lying or do you truly believe the nonsense that you come out with?

    Is that what it is, do you believe this rubbish, are you truly mad?

    It was the white faced invaders from Europe who kicked out the Palestinian Christians not Hamas.

    Both Palestinian Christians and Muslims live under Israeli domination and subjugation.

    But why would any of this matter to you? Do you even regard them as Christian, because they certainly sure as hell don’t regard you as Christian.

    And than you cut and past a quote from a Islam hating Zionist, assuming that her Arab ancestry might add some credibility to her Islam bashing blabbering.

    Heard it all before, take your Nonie Darwish and shave it up your arse.

    When I want to know about Islam I read the Quran, not the blabberings of Islam hating Zionists.

    So what makes her an authority on Islam for the likes of you?

    Did she study Islam at a famous Islamic university?

    Or does she teach Islamic studies at Harverd, Oxford or Cambridge?

    Or is it because she is a Islam hating Zionist with an Arab sounding name?

    Look if you want to know about Islam, get your self a copy of the Quran,

    I have read the Bible, that is why I haven’t attacked Christianity at all in response to your attacks on Islam. Reading the bible has shown me, you have nothing to do with the Bible, you have nothing to do with christianity. you are just an Islam hating, hate- mongering Zionist(And you know when I say Zionist, I mean Nazi).

  • Arsalan

    I’m not sure what world you are referring to when you say “The whole world hates you”, because it isn’t this one.

    It is some world you have created in your mind and experienced only in Hollywood films.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi1ZNEjEarw

    So what is this world you are talking about that hates me?

    Are you talking about 1/4 of the planet who are Muslims who believe in that religion YOU so hate?

    Are you talking about the South Americans who live in the countries your government attacks?

    How about the Africans who are starved to death by American banks?

    How about the South East Asians such as the Vietnamese whose countries your government bombed.

    Is it the people on those ships, who came from every country who belonged to every religion to risk their lives to feed our people in Gaza?

    Who are these people that hate me?

    Because when ever their is a vote in the UN about Zionism, it is the whole world on one side and America and Israel on the other.

    So this proves there is someone who the whole world hates, and it is not me!

    And have you asked Israelis what they think of you and your beliefs?

    I think you will find that if you love someone, it doesn’t mean that they love you.

    They might fight us, but they despise you.

    They know you for what you are. They can see through your false love. And know every word that comes out of your lips is a false ploy to steal souls.

    At the same time Christians regard your new religion, Christian Zionism as a heresy.

    So tell me, who one Earth loves you?

    Is there anyone who doesn’t hate you?

  • Michael Petek

    My government – the British Government – wasn’t involved in the Vietnam War, you ignoramus!

    If you want to find out which of the peoples of the world hates you, look at Sudan where the jihad killed two million non-Muslims.

    East Timor where the jihad cut the population by a third.

    Nigeria, where Islamic Jihad murders Christians in an ongoing campaign.

    Egypt, where the Coptic Christians are subjected to genocide.

    http://hrcari.org/

  • Arsalan

    I didn’t know there were any nutters like you here.

    Are you sure your not an American?

    What happened in East Timur happened using British and American weapons.

    You might blame Muslims, but the victims but the people there blame you.

    The tribal conflicts in Africa are between herdsmen and farmers.

    People like you like to add in a religious dimension, because it aids your hate mongering and so do gutter press, but ask Africans who they hate and it is the white colonialists.

    The people who colonised their lands, carried off a large section of their population to the Caribbean and America. And even now impoverish their nations with debt and support for dictators.

    It is you hate mongering racists that they hate, not us.

    If you think African Christians are full of love for you and your Zionism, you are sadly mistaken.

    Yes there are conflicts in the continent, and yes they sometimes take a religious dimension.

    But we all know whose the enemy, and that enemy is you!

  • the_leander

    “My government – the British Government – wasn’t involved in the Vietnam War, you ignoramus!”

    You know when you make statements like that, you really aught to check your facts first.

    The SAS were sent into Vietnam for “training purposes” early into the conflict. Basically they used the place as live fire practice.

  • Neil Barker

    “My government – the British Government – wasn’t involved in the Vietnam War, you ignoramus!”

    You know when you make statements like that, you really aught to check your facts first.

    The SAS were sent into Vietnam for “training purposes” early into the conflict. Basically they used the place as live fire practice.

    You have a source for this fantasy?

    A dream you had some night after too much booze?

  • Arsalan

    Do you think the UK would ever give up the opportunity to kill some little yellow people?

    No way!

    Just you try and stop them.

    Shooting big game has become very hard for sandhurst educated toffs due to animal rights organisations, so the next best thing is brown game as in Afghanistan and Iraq. Or in the case of the UK’s elite forces in Vietnam, Yellow game.

    Even in the absence of war toffs under Thatcher went off to Africa to hunt some black game, that is the best fun they can have because it is very unbritish now to shoot elephants and Rhinos there, due to the British love of Animals.

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