Money to Explode

by craig on September 26, 2011 1:32 pm in Uncategorized

All previous experience indicates that the latest expert estimate of the money spent by the UK on bombing Libya – up to £1.75 billion – will prove in time to be an underestimate.

Yesterday saw the heaviest NATO attack of the entire war, on the very centre of Sirte, leading thousands of civilians to try to flee. They are largely unable to do so because of a cordon of checkpoints set up by their attackers, slowing movement to a standstill and very occasional crawl. This massive bombing was coordinated with what we must now call the Libyan government – the former TNC. That a military action by NATO rationalised as protecting civilians from the Libyan government, ends up with a far greater bombardment of civilians on behalf of a different Libyan government, is too terrible to call ironic. NATO’s mandate to “protect civilians” from the UN actually expires on Friday, so all this week we will see a massive crescendo in NATO bombing of towns before that deadline.

But let us put that cost to the UK in context. The whole world economy is being shaken, and the livelihoods of billions damaged, by the problems of French banks having to write off Greek debt. If as expected Greece repudiates 50% of its debt, the capital written off by French banks will be in sterling approximately £4 billion. The £1.75 billion would make a big hole in that. I am certainly not suggesting that money should have been given to Greece instead of blowing up Libya, I am merely pointing out that this is a significant amount of money to waste in terms of global capital sums.

Remember we did not have that £1,75 billion – we borrowed it from the banks, adding to the international debt crisis and your and my tax burden for the rest of our lives, and our children after us. And remember the UK contributed under 25% of the NATO effort in Libya – total wasted will be pushing £10 billion.

NATO members are at the absolute heart of the world financial crisis. The colossal squandering of incredible – and in some cases unaccountable – sums in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya are fundamental to the lack of fiscal control in these economies. Not a single media pundit has mentioned it.

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  1. Not to mention costs in Afghanistan and Iraq.
    “The direct costs of the war, which is to say those unfunded costs in each year’s budget, now come to $1.23 trillion, or $444.6 billion for Afghanistan and $791.4 billion for Iraq, according to the National Priorities Project.”
    And this money we owe – who do we owe it to. And where did they get it from to lend to NATO.

  2. Dear Mr Craig Murray, have you noticed that very little is said about Iceland these days? Could it be because Iceland would not make good the losses of the international speculators./gamblers? Iceland is doing very well economically after standing and refusing to be shakedown by the banksters.

  3. Alexander Mercouris

    26 Sep, 2011 - 2:48 pm

    Dear Craig, I totally agree with you. Western economies were already becoming overstretched before 2000 but the unending series of hyper expensive wars we have fought since then has massively added to the problems as has the huge growth in defence spending in thee US. I would add that the same happened in the 1960s. The inflation that hit the world economy in the 1970s and which destroyed the Bretton Woods system was in part at least caused by runaway spending in the US to fund the Vietnam war and to get to the moon before the Russians. The point is scarcely ever made and the subject is largely taboo.

  4. Excellent comment Craig on this latest example of NATO’s barbarity. There will be no count of the dead and injured as elsewhere in Libya this year. I read last week that the UN have extended the operation by another 90 days.
    Nato extends Libya mission
    2011-09-21 16:15
    Brussels – Nato agreed today to a three-month extension of its air and sea campaign in Libya as the country’s new rulers try to dislodge well-armed Muammar Gaddafi loyalists holding out in several towns.
    The agreement to extend the mission, which Nato took full control of on March 31, was reached at a meeting of ambassadors of the 28 Nato states in Brussels, a Nato diplomat said.
    It was the second three-month extension to the mission that has involved a campaign of air strikes and a naval mission to enforce a UN arms embargo.
    Sirte is like one of those game reserves where the rich go to shoot captive big cats and other animals. P Harry’s prospective father-in-law-that-was owns one. How disgusting.

  5. These costs, incurred to finance illegal wars or illegally stretched ‘mandates’ for war, are in my view “odious debts.”
    The creditor has a responsibility, when lending funds to government, to refuse to finance criminality.
    To hold that these debts are sacred and must be repaid is simply to encourage amorality and immorality both among lenders and borrowers.

  6. I believe the TNC agreed to pay NATO costs right at the beginning of NATO involvement.

  7. The cost for war will never be too high for the New World Order. Killing has become the new main objective for our “governments”.

  8. Got to like it when a trader tells it how its is…



  9. Obama’s Arc of Instability
    Destabilizing the World One Region at a Time
    by Nick Turse
    ”It’s a story that should take your breath away: the destabilization of what, in the Bush years, used to be called “the arc of instability.” It involves at least 97 countries, across the bulk of the global south, much of it coinciding with the oil heartlands of the planet. A startling number of these nations are now in turmoil, and in every single one of them — from Afghanistan and Algeria to Yemen and Zambia — Washington is militarily involved, overtly or covertly, in outright war or what passes for peace. ”
    ”According to Pentagon documents released earlier this year, the U.S. has personnel — some in token numbers, some in more sizeable contingents — deployed in 76 other nations sometimes counted in the arc of instability: Angola, Botswana, Burundi, Cameroon, Chad, Congo, Cote d’Ivoire, Ethiopia, Gabon, Ghana, Guinea, Kenya, Liberia, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritania, Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Rwanda, Senegal, Sierra Leone, South Africa, Sudan, Tanzania, Togo, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, Syria, Antigua, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Bolivia, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago, Uruguay, Venezuela, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia, Romania, Serbia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam.”

  10. But the arms manufacturer are making a fortune. Who do think the war is meant to benefit? The real purpose of all the wars is served all the time.

  11. OK further to my post above, heres is the Youtube link.



  12. Programme on just now on Channel 4 (UK) about Blair’s business dealings as Middle East Envoy.

    And an Observer article on his deals with South Korean oil companies operating in Iraq, Russian oligarchs and companies getting contracts from the Israeli government in the occupied territories via JP Morgan, the bank that pays Blair £2 million a year as a consultant

  13. Did everybody who watched The Wonderful World of Tony Blair tonight on Channel 4 feel as ill as I did?
    It will be repeated on 4 On Demand later.

  14. I think we need to realize and accept that the era of what some people term “bougeoise, liberal, democracy” is definitively… over.

    We’ve now entered the era of “totalitarian democracy” which seems like a contradiction in terms, but isn’t. It’s perfectly possible to have a political system where the people have a vote and there are elections, only the parties one can choose between are virtually identical, and as there is no credible, realistic, alternative to the neoliberal economic and social dogma, the election result has become irrelevant.

    In the UK none of the three neoliberal factions pretending to be rival political parties with alternative agendas, have any answers to the challenges we face… that answer, that hope, if it comes at all, will have to come from the streets, not the ballot box.

  15. ‘..that answer, that hope, if it comes at all, will have to come from the streets, not the ballot box.’ Writerman
    I totally agree but I think it would be a very good idea to start a campaign to persuade people not to vote. Voting is utterly pointless. It’s something our rulers want to maintain in order to keep up the facade of democracy. The illusion needs removing.

  16. Clegg – ‘What becomes clear from this biography is that Clegg was always a Tory with a yellow tie.’
    Nick Clegg – The Biography.

  17. @Ruth
    I think that if the majority can be pursuaded not to vote or better still spoil the paper, I doubt it would make any difference to anything. A general strike might be the only thing that would hit big business in the pocket. This may be inevertible given the way western economies are heading.
    Odd given the UK’s propensity for war making, that further job losses have been announced for BAE defence systems. maybe they are just going to buy it all from China?

  18. Late night thought…
    A world without money means we become our own caretakers and real wealth is group:
    for thinkers…

  19. The Libyan Sovereign Wealth Fund is supposed to be worth $70 billion. We’ll see where that is invested now. Probably the French nuclear power industry for a start. The real cost of the war is in dead, injured, displaced, terrified and raped Libyans and Africans, a country with a destroyed infrastructure, a region with a devastated economy and a fractured society in a state of ongoing conflict.

  20. Spot on there HRIMark.
    The Italians are back to extracting the oil as if nothing has happened and nobody has been killed or wounded.

  21. Craig,
    Always been a fan and had huge respect from the days we met while I was out in Kazakhstan (int school) lots of balls, but at times more cynical than the radical of old – back in the day you may have supported action in Libya in its pure sense – easy to yack on about the real cost – why not support a new set up that may be capitalist and Islamic and believe in human rights… Unlikely to succeed maybe, but you have to support these things for them to have a chance?

    If something is right is it an obscene waste of money? Please qv your past arguments.


  22. @ Craig,
    The single question I ask myself about this Libyan tragedy is:-
    – How do we have “humanitarian bombing?”
    I see cynical, fascist and criminal action afoot in Libya.
    The African Union at the onset of the troubles coming out of the East of Libya in Benghazi, signaled with a plan that Gadaffi accepted that Western style elections would be held and a plan implemented, which the AU documented (
    NATO rejected the plan, armed rebels, started bombing, and has cleared a path for regime change, which after over six months of bombing of Libya, still finds Libyans resisting the NATO led rebels.
    Of course, just like in Tunisia and Egypt, the populace does not want Gadaffi, but somehow, with the majority not wanting him, there is a need to keep NATO bombing going for a further three months. This clearly shows and proves that the overwhelming majority want to have a new NTC government, which of course is why some unreasonable Libyans continue to resist while the NATO presence and bombardment of Libya continues.
    How with UN Resolutions 1970 and 1973, do NATO get from a humanitarian no-fly mission to bombing Libyan civilians for over six months – then extend for another three months?
    My answer is that the bombing is either of the ilk of fascism, or it is humanitarianism. I remain convinced that it can’t be both.
    Criminal action
    When the following happens:-
    1. A faction, which, if in the recent riots in England – Scotland, Ireland and Wales intervened and gave full support to the rioters – then the established government would be faced with horrendous problems of insurrection, which if left alone it could have resolved – but the Scots, Welsh and Irish supported the looters and rioters simply because they wanted to provide humanitarian support against the overwhelming power of the English state.
    2. There can be no NTC without NATO bombardment and foreign troops and advisors guiding the action on the ground in Libya.
    3. The scope for open-ended civil war has been instigated by NATO’s actions.
    4. There is no viable Libyan faction able to command political power in any cohesive manner – so NATO now dominates the Libyan political landscape ( yet it cannot achieve the goal militarily – because of the range and depth of resistance, Libyan tribal loyalties and the sheer geographical size of Libya) and as the dust of war settles over Libya ( one year, two years, three years, five years…more?) – so NATO presents oil rich, previously debt free Libya with bills to be paid in respect of the liberating bombardment which has created a humanitarian disaster and this “free” country.
    5. Here is some evidence of the effect of dropping bombs on Libyan civilians –
    6. Not to worry – the fight really is for a NATO led war for “democracy”.
    Anyone trying to make sense out of this insanity – can be guided and educated by watching the following informative videos.

    West after Libyan oil, riches
    Imperialism with left wing slogans

  23. Nothing is as good, in times of crises, as an foreign enemy, or; a wounded tiger is the most dangerous tiger.

  24. Hello Craig,

    Isn’t it true that every pound in the UK is borrowed from independent, which is to say ‘untouchable, international entities? So much for sovereignty.

    And isn’t it also true that the banks the money was borrowed from never had it that money to begin with? Didn’t they merely declare that they have it as an entry in a ledger?

    Is there any sense in this arrangement? What reasons could there be for every sovereign power to subject themselves to such perversity? Especially when they could make money from thin air just as easily as the untouchables? Why do we let them do it and pay them a perfectly unnecessary interest to boot?

    And please no comments about how much more ‘responsible’ the internationalists are. Honestly, as if where the world is at now could be any worse than if we abolished the current arrangement and decided our own monetary needs.

    Aside from the question of why we subject ourselves to this, we must necessarily ask, what’s in it for the bankers? They don’t need the money themselves. They can and do simply declare that they have it. They have a licence to print money.

    How could we conclude otherwise than that this mad arrangement exists to ensure no country ever becomes too powerful. Tell me it doesn’t function in this fashion. How powerful is the US in the face of how much debt they owe? Don’t forget the Americans all worked their arses off, with a lousy two weeks holidays a year, with massive production, and somehow the whole place went out backwards? Nuts.

    And yeah, yeah, they blew the money on wars. But weren’t the wars to make them rich? Isn’t that the theory? Surely this is circular logic? It must be since the US going out backwards. Yes? What were the wars for? Where’s the pay-off? What did they achieve apart from enriching the bankers?

    Sure there’s the MIC oligarchy getting rich on borrowed money they don’t have to pay for. But between them copping a free ride on their nation’s impoverishment all to international entities who exist for no other purpose, and the international entities throwing them some crumbs by way of their couldn’t-be-bettered means of wasting money (ie. wars), who’s the top dog here? What odds would a Ladbrokes from hell give you on each of them?

    Not forgetting that the list of nations we’re currently destroying precisely coincides with the list of nations that don’t subscribe to the aforementioned money-as-debt international entities. Do-ability aside of course. But the heavies like China, will get theirs too. I’ll bet money on it, down at the Ladbrokes from hell.

  25. @ Nobody,

    ” But the heavies like China, will get theirs too. I’ll bet money on it, down at the Ladbrokes from hell.”

    You are so right – just read my post above – Russia and China has to be emasculated by the US if US global hegemony is to be a “success”. How else do you accomplish the hegemonic mission?
    Crazy and bloody world we live in.

  26. Described in the Times (26 Sept): Yesterday the NTC fighters withdrew to the edge of the city, allowing NATO jets to soften up the remnants of Colonel Gaddafi’s army. (my emphasis).

  27. Am I right in saying that Greece is paying interest at 17%? If the loan rate was – say – halved, would this stop Greece defaulting and the whole crisis would then go away in the greater sense?

    All that would change would be that a few zeros would go missing off some bankers computer screen?

    Or, as the US did, they could increase the deficit ceiling. I know the debt remains – but it was good enough for the US and I dont hear any financial “experts” making a comparison.

    Would appreciate any informed reply to confirm or dispel my theory.

  28. I see the NATO (to? zi?) murderers are trotting out the old ‘human shield’ line, as in, “we didn’t want to kill any civilians, gov, but they was being used as human shields’.

    I was just going to wipe my knife on the bed, officer, but the lady was being used as a human shield. What could I do? – Jack the Ripper

  29. Mary, I didn’t watch the Tony Blair show, but I’ll catch up later. What I did watch was Gaddafi’s support for the IRA.

    While there was some good research went into this programme it was very one-sided. In fact I ended up feeling: “Yes, Gaddafi supplied the IRA with Semtex used in bombings in the UK, but unlike NATO, Libya wasn’t actually doing the bombing”. NATO countries supply weapons and arms materials all over the world. The presentation showed the blatant hypocritical one-sidedness expected from our media.

  30. ‘BBC Speechless As Trader Tells Truth’
    Watch the video.

  31. I am heading over to Bethnal Green to see this exhibition of sculptures by May Ayres.
    ..”We think the Price is Worth it”, is entitled for the then Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, who opined that the lives of half a million Iraqi children, were just that, on “60 Minutes” (12th May 1996.) The response is a figure beyond despair, her face in her hands (46 cm high) a figure visitors to Iraq over the years, know so well – so helplessly.

    Anthony Charles Lynton Blair, QC., has a special place. He is kneeling, hands clasped, in immaculate black dress dinner suit, white shirt and bow tie. Appropriately, two faced, one pious, smug, the other manic, demonic. He kneels on a wasteland of bodies, faces, despairing, reposed, bewildered, entombed, enwombed – dead.
    Behind him, from an ancient iron stairwell, fixed to the hewn stones, silent witness to near two centuries, hangs a noose.
    The title is: ” … and by the way. God Bless you all …”..

    God’s Wars – a review –
    “God’s Wars”, her first solo exhibition since 1985, in a historic East London church: “presents meditations on war and peace, selected from her ‘War of Aggression’ series, which has been created out of anger over the last seven years.”

    And you will recall that the hypocrite nation, the UK, bans the manufacture and use of cluster ‘munitions’.

  33. Thanks Mary. It’s disgusting. I’ve posted it on Facebook. I’m going to send my MP the link.

  34. The only word that needs adding to this emasculating killing machine that is NATO these days is the word obscene, the true meaning of it, hellishly obscene.

    We have some belicose fundamentalist radical capitalists, who care nothing about the world they set their children in, as long as they can make money from misery, whether its the arms traders who suck life out economies, or the trader dreaming of another recession, hurting other economies as much as possible.

    Some of you pointed to the right direction to take, this country needs taken by the scruff of the neck and shaking, until, just as the sculptures of May Ayres depict in their raw reality and emotional welling, the head comes off.

    I like the idea of not voting, to end the piss take that is postal voting, an open invitation to fraud to any tribal community, the lack of ID required at the voting booth, voter apathy and disinterest in all things political are indications as to how such a campaing could succeed, add to this a few words about pensions that are frizzled away, savings that are loosing in value, earning nothing, and you might find yourself with a few million supporters.

    I will try my best to go and see that exhibition it sounds harrowing and accusing, intriguing and raw. Ta for the links Mary, you’re a star.

  35. Thanks John and Ingo. This is the link to see The Wonderful World of Tony Blair.
    Where are the exterminating angels?

  36. I’m having trouble posting a link about whether the world trade centres were hit by hologram planes and not real ones. I tried twice to post the link but I think it must be a hologram link.

  37. Sorry there were three links. It’s my eyes, age, whatever. “9/11 – The Great American Psy-Opera” is the Ultimate 9/11 Truth movie, and it has begun

  38. Where are the exterminating angels?
    ….Or even the grim reaper?
    This is the UN version from a site in Spanish called Resistencia Libia


  39. Were the planes that hit the twin towers holograms?

  40. Uzbek in the UK

    27 Sep, 2011 - 11:15 am

    Mr Murray,
    I am waiting to see your thoughts about yesterday’s Dispatches where Tony Blair’s dirty business links have been scrutinised.

  41. Osama bin Laden

    27 Sep, 2011 - 12:35 pm

    Let me just respond to the 911 topic by stating that none or you filthy conspiracy nuts should look down on John for believing in holograms.

  42. Both the BBC and Al Jazeera are desperate to show that a) the NTC, as the “legitimate” Government, is winning and b) the war is a war of liberation. There are clearly quite a few people in Libya who don’t want to be liberated! Or maybe they just don’t like the people in the NTC and their NATO backers?

    Yesterday on Radio 4, we had several spokesmen for the NTC boasting about how they were all in favour of establishing a free-market economy. The plot thinnens, methinks.

    Liberating what, and for whom?

    Once again, can we ask: How many civilians have died for the sake of oil and “reconstruction”? And to think there are Lib Dems in Government at the heart of this — the guys who were squawking about the horror of Iraq just a few years ago.

  43. What NATO has been doing to civilians makes the Nazi bombing of Guernica look like a NATO humanitarian mission.Guess we can rewrite history completely now.It’s worrying tho’… the under-reporting of what the Govt doesn’t want you to hear.
    Do our airmen in the RAF truly believe they are protecting civilians ? There hasn’t been a peep of discontent from our armed forces.Guess they are happy being the bully and the US’s attack dog.
    Goebbels would certainly be a happy little camper in Cameron’s cabinet.

  44. OBL, if theories were never investigated, the truth would never emerge. There are thousands of respectable professionals who believe the towers were brought down by controlled explosions. You’re not against investigation are you?
    Here’s another theory that’s just occurred to me, having watched Gaddafi’s supply of Semtex to the IRA (ITV 1) and Tony Blair’s world-wide business interests (Channel 4). Until now I could not understand why Tony Blair helped broker a peace deal in Northern Ireland when he does nothing but cause havoc, mayhem and death in the rest of the world. The answer to my mind is fear for his own life. He knew that the IRA had huge amounts of Semtex and in the past that prime ministers were targets, for example, Mrs Thatcher in the Brighton Hotel bombing, John Major in the Downing Street attack. So he went over and cuddled up to Gaddafi to stop him sending more Semtex and got the IRA to decommission weapons. It was not because he had any interest in peace as such, he just feared for his life. He admits he does not go to Palestine more often for security reasons. He is a coward. To call him a peace envoy is worse than giving the Nobel Peace Prize to Sadat and Begin.

  45. Mary, I think you’ll find the “Terrifying NATO cluster bombing” video is actually an arms dump exploding, at least that’s the opinion of many who’ve commented on the YouTube page. Cluster bombs look rather different. NATO have done some really horrible things in Libya of course, but I really don’t think this video is evidence of cluster bomb usage.

  46. Aaron Anonymous

    27 Sep, 2011 - 1:54 pm

    John, Gadaffi’s support for the IRA was long over by the time Blair appeared on the scene, and wasn’t all that significant compared to their other sources of funding and materiel anyway. I don’t think the IRA had anything to do with Blair and Gadaffi. Much more to do with getting Gadaffi to give up his WMD programs so Libya’s people would be defenceless when NATO chose to pounce.

  47. …..that’s the opinion of many who’ve commented on the YouTube page….
    Well they would say that wouldn’t they complete with all their four letter words. I will continue to take the version of the website where I located it. Branko Mihic seems to post reasonaable items, all anti NATO of course. Perhaps that is where the difference of opinion arises.

  48. Aaron Anonymous. Good point about WMDs. But Blair would not want the arms gifts back between Libya and the IRA, and it is quite clear that the IRA already had substantial quantities of Semtex anyway, despite the biggest cargo being intercepted, so I am still of the opinion that peace for the sake of peace was not Blair’s objective in NI, so much as security for his own skin in Downing Street.

  49. What chance of turning round the views of my MP (Gorgeous George!)on ANY combat weapons never mind cluster bombs. I have contacted him about use of drones – operated joy-stick style from the USA (including by RAF pilots) – being unacceptable. He replied by saying that their use is line with international humanitarian law!

  50. Sorry to hear that, Pee, of George Galloway. Are you sure he wasn’t being facetious? I heard him speak at Hyde Park and thought he was totally anti-war. Coincidentally there’s a piece about him standing for the Scottish Parliament in the Telegraph.

  51. I watched the start of Miliband’s speech to the Labour conference. Just after he said that he was not Blair and was not Brown, BOTH GREAT PRIME MINISTERS,!!! the links went down on Sky and BBC. Serves him right. An ambitious career politician and a twerp in my book. I switched off and went out to enjoy the glorious weather.

    PS When he smiles he looks like someone from Wallace and Grommit. Most unfortunate.

  52. Daily Bell see the Blair-Gaddafi affair as a red herring:

  53. Oops, sorry John Goss….I was referring to George Osborne!! Makes sense to you now, I’m sure!! Apologies to George Galloway.

  54. Mary, I’ve been looking at footage of cluster bombs, and ammunition dump explosions. Neither fit the bill perfectly as far as I can see, but I would err on the side of ammunition dump. Look from about 3 minutes 15 seconds into this video.
    We don’t know what weapons NATO forces are deploying.

  55. Pee. Oh, yes. Well you can imagine it of Osborne.

  56. Correction Miliband called Bliar and Brown
    ‘great men’ not ‘great prime ministers’.

    That looked like white phosphorus as used on Fallujah and Gaza. Whatever, terrifying and terrible for those on the receiving end.

  57. Mary, sorry. I re-posted the first link again by mistake. The cluster bombs are on the next link. However, as you say it is terrifying and terrible for those on the receiving end. All weapons are abhorrent. Most commentators on this site I’m sure share that view.

  58. I’d like to link Craig’s point about military expenditure’s significant share in the UK’s deficit to the absence of foreign policy from Ed Miliband’s conference speech – apart from his ritual praise of our brave soldiers, where he still dances to Murdoch’s tune. The speech was stuffed full of empty radicalism, and even lacked any new political clichés (Bliar’s speciality). One sentence showed clearly that he lives in cloud-cuckoo-land: “Millions of public servants deliver a fantastic service every day of every week. “ Sycophantic fantasy!

  59. harry fredericks

    27 Sep, 2011 - 10:08 pm

    There is too a certain panic evidenced as regards NATO’s attempts at genocide in libya. The NATO has descended into the pit by using banned cluster munitions.

    All this death and mayhem to protect the privately owned central banking system of the west, which has single handedly destroyed western civilisation.

    Once again the morally disgusting banksters use the taxpayers to pay for there wars.

    Time to ditch Mervyn King and nationalise the Old Lady of Threadneedle Street. Money creation to remnain in the public realm. No more free rides for the Rothschilds and their ilk.

  60. “having watched Gaddafi’s supply of Semtex to the IRA (ITV 1)”
    Some of the programme contained footage claimed to be ‘filmed by the IRA‘, however it is taken from a video game!!!
    (see )
    How do we know that it wasn’t just a security services ruse that Libya sold weapons to the IRA?

    Look at the case of Fintan O’Farrell, Declan Rafferty, and Michael McDonald, who were involved in a sting operation involving over 50 No. Mi5 & American Secret Service operatives. The 3 got 30 years each.

    Let the sale go through, drop some gossip in, & there you have it LIBYA SOLD ARMS TO IRA.


  61. “Remember we did not have that £1,75 billion – we borrowed it from the banks, adding to the international debt crisis and your and my tax burden for the rest of our lives, and our children after us. And remember the UK contributed under 25% of the NATO effort in Libya – total wasted will be pushing £10 billion.”
    It was the same with wars against the Americans and French in the 18th century. Money is always available for war. Finding a solution to this pandemic diplomatic disease is like finding a cure for cancer. Perhaps an amelioration is all that can be hoped for in a world as bad as ours, but perhaps we are not totally helpless. Some actions could ease the problems.
    1. The abolition of NATO. Many comments on this blog show NATO is a force for evil. Has it ever done any good? Who would join in petitioning parliaments and senates of the world for its abolition?
    2. Restructuring of the United Nations’ Security Council. This has certainly outlived its purpose. It was set up after the second world war and, as with most wars, the victorious got to share out the spoils. Russia, UK, US, France and China have since then been the five countries that have wielded all the power at top level. There is no representation for Africa, The Middle East, Australasia or South America, and a lot of other places much bigger than the UK and France. Such countries have to toady up to the big five. Who would join in petitioning parliaments and senates of the world for a more representative restructuring?
    3. Abolition, or severe restructuring, of Mega-financial organisations and banks. How can wars be financed when the banks financing them, and I’m not sure anybody knows, any more than me, which banks finance their country’s wars, have no ascertainable assets? Who finances NATO? Ron Paul is right when he says governments just print money which devalues the real fiscal worth of their economies. This printed money is a farcical phantom. Like Craig says we, and future generations, are going to be paying for these wars forever with money we do not have. Even the World Bank and International Monetary Fund are of little, if any, value. When money is lent to developing countries, it is lent with ties. If a dam, or other project, is financed the bank that lends the money wants something in return, and to get it there is a whole maze of non-accountable companies with untraceable financial structures as easy to challenge as Blair’s functions as peace envoy to the Middle East. All this has got to stop. Who would join in petitioning parliaments and senates of the world for a restructured, accountable and fairer world financial system?
    I know I would, if somebody more accomplished, who can get these petitions going, would set the ball in motion. I believe petitions have more persuasive clout than marches. They enable armchair activists. People do have power. Politicians do have to get themselves re-elected. Make sure they hear our voice.

  62. Holder, your link comes up with the message “This video has been removed by the user” with a subtitle “Sorry about that”. I wonder who the user is.

  63. On reading Mary’s Guardian link I suspect the games company, or ITV.

  64. Green was CEO of HSBC and is now Baron Green of Hurpierpoint. He is also an ordained priest in the Church of England,[5] having studied at the Ming Hua Theological College whilst he was in Hong Kong, and is the author of the book Serving God? Serving Mammon?.[6]Wikipedia.
    He is also a hypocrite.
    From a Reuters article published today:
    ‘Firms from Britain and France, which led the NATO bombing campaign against Gaddafi’s forces, are in the forefront of the race for business, though they say they expect no special treatment.
    “They (the Libyans) are not naïve, they expect it to be profitable to us, but they’re not going to do us any favors. It will be competitive,” Stephen Green, Britain’s trade and investment minister, told a meeting of British executives in London’.
    In besieged Sirte, from a reprinted Times article, ‘Long lines of civilian vehicles were leaving after a night of NATO air attacks on the town. Rebel forces fighting for the National Transitional Council added artillery and mortar fire.
    The people leaving the town, many looking scared, said conditions inside Sirte were disastrous. They made claims which, if verified, are a challenge for NATO – which operates under a UN mandate to protect civilians – saying the NATO bombing raids hit homes, schools and hospitals.
    “It was worse than awful,” said Riab Safran, 28, as his car was searched by rebel fighters outside Sirte. His family had slept on the beach because the houses were being bombed, he said. “They hit all kinds of buildings – schools, hospitals,” he said’.

  65. And from the above link.
    “Italian energy giant Eni said yesterday it had resumed oil production in Libya. By Monday, 15 major wells had been tapped, producing 31,900 barrels of oil a day.”
    Any connection between this and a more buoyant European economic market?

  66. The real “cost” in Libya – human life – what price?

  67. Jonangus Mackay

    28 Sep, 2011 - 3:48 am

    Nostalgic viewers may regard the
    “ITV: ‘IRA’ footage was from video game” débâcle
    as merely the latest delayed-action consequence of the Thatcher/Murdoch telly legacy.
    World in Action, First Tuesday, Death on the Rock, rest in peace.

  68. Jonangus Mackay

    28 Sep, 2011 - 4:05 am

    On which topic — the effective extirpation of troublesome journalism from ITV by the Herald of Free Enterprise as central sub-clause of her deal with the Dirty Digger — this highly illuminating but little viewed autopsy at London’s Frontline Club, before TV professionals & an IBA regulator or two, is well worth watching. It also contains a few laughs:

  69. You probably know that ITV is being ‘run’ by Adam Crozier, the character who started the process of privatisation of the Post Office. There he was receiving a salary of £835k and when he left, went off with £3.5m,
    My post which used to arrive at 7.30am twenty years ago now comes at any time after 2.30pm and on Saturdays not at all. I live a mile or two from a town centre.
    Wonder what he is screwing out of ITV?

  70. Hear, Hear, Craig. The Pavlovian response from the laptop bombardiers would be ‘would you have stood by and watched a massacre in Libya?’ Considering that we are doing exactly that in respect of Bahrain, Yemen, Sudan, Syria et al every day, and have contributed to some massacres ourselves, the question has no validity.

  71. Further to the comment I made 6 comments above I found this petition which had only two signatures. It now should have three – but did not have last time I looked. If you sign it you will receive an email to your inbox with a link that supposedly adds your signature.

  72. Thanks for that link John G, the petition now has 4 signatories. I guess not many know of the NATO abolition petition, shall put it on my facebook page.

  73. So here is another petition for me to sign, asking PR servants of the really powerful to listen to my wishes… so that, in time, if there are enough of us, we would make a difference in the election promises, which, if realised, would force the powerful elites… to chose an alternative route of proceeding with their goals.
    Hm. Would it be ethical to decline?
    I’m interested in destroying other people’s unaccountable powers over me. I normally do it by cutting my ties with them.

  74. meanwhile, the US and Europe are going through the usual motions at the UN before sitting down for a good lunchtime chinwag with moishe.
    Note the headline speaking of ‘attack’, instantly turned into ‘condemnation’ in the first sentences.

    Israel acts with impunity annexing all of Jerusalem for housing, against its allies outspoken opposition, it believes that these illegal actions are without consequences, a fallacy, because these housing units mean no negotiations. Israel has given up the talking. Whilst they freed Samer Allawi, after spurious accusations with no evidence, a way of hitting out at Al Jazeera, they are still continuing their ethnic cleansing policies elsewhere. Hamas elected representatives sheltering on International red cross premises, was arrested because his jeruasalem permit was not renewed, so very much third Reich.

  75. It’s clear now there will be no TNC government. That has been postponed until the TNC controls all of Libya and that will never happen. On the contrary the TNC are losing ground. Cameron and co. therefore face total humiliation and likely war crimes charges or they must escalate the war through full scale invasion.

  76. Thanks Ingo, if everybody puts it on their Facebook page, or better still creates an event, which is what I’ve done, the ball will soon get rolling and it will be thanks to everyone, and in particular Craig’s blog.

  77. The porno purveyor Richard Desmond is setting up a health lottery, with minimum proceeds going to local areas.
    I scanned the tabloids in the local supermarket and this item was on several front pages. Is it being promoted as a sop to the cuts being made to the NHS and its ultimate privatisation?
    Branson’s Assura has been given the contract locally to provide community nursing, sexual health services, children’s outpatient services, prison services, and a range of other non-acute areas of care which is the start of privatisation locally.

    PS The supermarket cafe currently sells coffee for £1.10. They are closing the operation in November and are handing the cafe over to one of those Costalot coffee outfits. I was told this morning that coffee will be £2.15 a cup, cooked breakfasts and hot food will go and they will sell only croissants and panini type things. The staff are offered replacement contracts of employment which if they do not offer the same terms will mean the good staff will leave. Therefore the public including the local elderly, the builders and workmen and those going to the adjoining hospital will be deprived of an affordable amenity. The hospital itself has a Costalot type coffee shop.

  78. The UN gets more and more ridicolous, the decision of the un-security council
    and the letgo of this bunch of Nato-destroyers makes it totally clear.
    We have have to recognize, its the North atlantic Terror Organisation.
    By the way what’s is this genetically modified tele-tubby, on top of the UN,
    paid for, to protect civilians ?

  79. Now France is threatining with another war. What is wrong with these people. Can they ever be satisfied with the bloodshed around on our planet?

  80. France is warning of another war, Axman, if you read your link carefully, general Arnaud is worried that it could destabilise the whole region and that the attack is most likely to be complicated and come from Israel. Not news.

    What is news is that Irans foreign minster is asking the EU to come back to the table and talk as there are some new developments afoot.
    We all know that this issue will be used as a pre text to go to war, that the US will join in, most likely within 24 hrs. if not at the same time and that they will want to carve up Iran for daring to suggest being paid in Euro’s for their oil.

    This empirical hegemony of the petrodollar is ripping the planet apart to get its geostrategical ways, and then what?

    BTW. Hope Suhayl is OK, he hasn’t posted for days.

  81. There were only 2 signatures on this petition this morning. Now it’s up to 9. And people have not come home from work yet. Who’s going to be the tenth?

  82. Ingo, Suhayl’s OK, I got an e-mail from him this morning, but his PC is still out of action – Windoze, you can guess the rest!

  83. Clark, I have to keep restoring my computer to an earlier date. I suspect people who are actively opposed to mainstream media and governmental propaganda are prime targets. My suspicion is from previous experience that they target computers from the registry end based on purchase details since each computer has its unique registration code and purchasers names and addresses are logged against this at time of purchase – it might be presumed as an anti-terrorist measure. Still thinking of changing operating systems, but not got round to it yet.

  84. Look at the language used here by the BBC. The verb chosen is ‘pound’.
    28 September 2011 Last updated at 17:31
    Nato strikes Gaddafi stronghold
    Nato aircraft pound one of the last pro-Gaddafi strongholds, Sirte, as National Transitional Council fighters advance on the city centre.
    Smoke and explosions
    Profile: Sirte Challenges after Gaddafi
    Libya conflict: Q&A

  85. Very disturbing Mary.

    Have you signed this guy’s petition to get out of NATO and abolish it?

  86. Yes will do but uneasy giving my details to HMG.

  87. John Goss, this is very weird, a couple of weeks ago I had nothing to do and went into my computer to get rid of anything I no longer required, went into pictures and folders and came across two pictures and some folders with strange symbols under them!!!. One of the pictures was off a middle eastern man with a very haunted look on his face and the desert behind him, the other picture of a strange looking man. I did not download any of them!!!, I showed them to my wife she said “thats strange”, I deleted the lot. I only put windows XP pro on about six months ago, I have no idea where they come from ?.

  88. John Goss and Guest, I never noticed being particularly targeted for visiting alternative news sites, but I haven’t used Windows for two years or more. I fully expect that governments / secret services keep a number of Windows “backdoors”. I also expect that they reserve them for times of “national emergency”, rather than showing their hand.
    “Common or garden” viruses and “Windows Exploits” are available on the open market. Usually, Windows gets a virus thus:
    (1) You open a malicious attachment on an e-mail; this can even come from someone you trust, if their own system is infected.
    (2) You visit a website that installs malware. It might be a bad site, a good site but compromised, or it could be a bad or compromised advert (ie from a different domain) on an otherwise good site.
    Frankly, Windows is so insecure that it isn’t worth fretting over where the infections come from. Just make sure that you keep backups of all your personally valuable files.

  89. Oh, other major infection routes are:
    (1) installing dodgy software off the Internet or “cracked” CDs, and
    (2) teenagers in the house using MSN, AIM etc. Some of them send each other infections, apparently as a sort of joke!

  90. Clark, thanks for the explanation. I’m always willing to listen to what seems logical. Especially from people with knowledge of the industry.

  91. Should we and will we follow this American example? It is a movement that seems to be taking off.

  92. “(2) teenagers in the house using MSN, AIM etc. Some of them send each other infections, apparently as a sort of joke!”
    Clark, I am the only person on this computer. No way anyone else could/has downloaded anything. The whole lot was in one sub-folder I didn`t know existed!. I didn`t open any of the folders inside the sub-folder that I found, there was about six of them, plus the two pictures!.

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