Why Eurosceptics Should Back Assange

by craig on May 30, 2012 2:21 pm in Uncategorized

I have carefully read the entire judgements (including the dissenting ones) of the Supreme Court, dismissing Assange’s appeal against extradition. The appeal was on the narrow point of law that the Swedish Prosecutor was not a “Judicial Authority”, but rather a party to the case, and only a “judicial authority” can issue a European arrest warrant. That may sound dull. I hope to convince you it isn’t.

Eurosceptics are not the most natural supporters of Julian Assange, but they should be deeply disturbed by aspects of this judgement. So should anyone with a regard for personal liberty. Some of the points laid down by the majority judges are truly shocking.

Please read this part of Lord Kerr’s judgement. I suggest you read it several times.

117. It would be destructive of the international co-operation between states to
interpret the 2003 Act in a way that prevented prosecutors from being recognised
as legitimate issuing judicial authorities for European Arrest Warrants, simply
because of the well-entrenched principle in British law that to be judicial is to be

So the idea of an impartial judiciary is less important than obeying EU instruments, for which “international cooperation” is in this case a euphemism.

All of the judges accept that in ordinary English “Judicial authority” means a judge and a court, and not a prosecutor.

Lord Kerr says quite specifically:

101. The expression “judicial authority”, if removed from the extradition (or,
more properly, surrender) context, would not be construed so as to include
someone who was a party to the proceedings in which the term fell to be
considered. A judicial authority must, in its ordinary meaning and in the contexts
in which the expression is encountered in this jurisdiction other than that of
surrender, be an authority whose function is to make judicial decisions.

But Kerr then goes on to say that only in the context of European surrender/extradition, “judicial authority” should be understood in a way that is absolutely contrary to its normal English meaning. In a cavalier way Kerr dispenses with a fundamental principle of English Law for centuries, that words are to be construed in their ordinary sense – which every law student in the land learns in week 1 of their course.

The majority all rested their dismissal of the appeal on the grounds that the parliamentary Act of 2003 must be interpreted in line with the EU decision or “Framework Agreement” which it was created to implement. They specifically state that where there is conflict the EU Framework Agreement must take precedence over British law.

What follows is absolutely astonishing. The Framework Agreement in its English version specifically states, in Article 1, that the European Arrest Warrant must be issued by a “judicial decision”.

That really can only mean a court – it cannot mean a prosecutor on any construction.

Lord Philips seeks to get round this by a morally disgusting piece of legal casuistry. He states in terms that the French text should be followed and not the English (para 56 of the judgement). He argues: “The French version is the original and is to be preferred”.

But that contravenes an important and long established principle of international diplomacy. I have personally negotiated in both the EU and the UN and the essential and fully stated principle is that all official language texts have an equal validity. There is no “preferred original”. Lord Philips is just getting over an insuperable obstacle to his argument.

Having argued that the French text must be used and not the english text, Philips returns to the argument on which the whole judgement rests; that the French text is to be preferred to the English and that “judiciaire” has a more “vague” meaning than “judicial” (para 18). He rests this argument on a 1996 French dictionary and a google search.

Even if we accept that judiciaire has a vaguer meaning than judicial, the principle of interpreting international agreements based on the vaguest meaning of each of the individual words between the official languages would dissolve international law into inanity. There is a strong argument that where there is a conflict between languages the more precise and narrow formulation should be taken to be the most that can fairly be said to have been agreed by all.

The truth is that Philips and his fellow judges live in the real world, and were more concerned to please both the EU and the US by getting Assange extradited on charges that would not stand any genuine judicial investigation.

Assange is to be extradited on the argument that the British Act is subordinate to the European Framework, and that the english text of that is subordinate to the French text.

It is not surprising they dismissed an independent judiciary as unimportant. They are not one.

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  1. Hi Craig,

    Welcome back. I was following your recent blogging on your researches into Alexander Burnes and Britain’s first Afghan Imperial adventure.

    I had been unaware of this aspect of British history, apart from your mentions, until I watched Rory Stewart’s BBC program on Monday night (second episode tonight). I now see why he is worthy of further research.

    Did you see Rory Stewart’s program and any comments? My basic though is why are we only now being allowed to have the obvious folly of Afghan adventures discussed on prime-time TV. Is this softening up for our imminent troop withdrawal?


  2. French/European law follows Napoleonic Code. It’s a bugger to translate because the premises are different from UK law. In which case, it being a British court, UK Law/English translation should apply.

  3. Many thanks Craig for deciphering the legal sophistry of our noble Lords Philips & Kerr in this important case. As both a Eurosceptic, and someone who senses that Assange is being unjustly pursued by the PTB here, I agree that the judgement is ‘truly shocking’.

    BTW very glad to see you were so well received back in Brazil.

  4. Mods
    Still in Sao Paulo could someone pl correct typo in last sentence am on mobile.
    posting to Facebook still woorks
    Alposs check blog so I changed Facebook login to my normal email address you know password unchanged. If

  5. We are living in a fascist state. The judgement on Julian Assange was shocking.

  6. Yet they want the doctors to be on a pay freeze, work for longer and pay larger pension contributions.
    As of 1 April 2010, Justices of the Supreme Court, including the Deputy President, were in Group 2 of the judicial salary scheme, with an annual salary of £206,857. This is the same group as the Chancellor of the High Court, Lord Justice Clerk, President of the Family Division and President of the Queen’s Bench Division.[1] The President of the Supreme Court, Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland, Lord President of the Court of Session and Master of the Rolls make up Group 1.1 of the scale on £214,165, below only the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, who earns £239,845.[1]
    That was two years ago. I bet they are not on a pay freeze and how much pension do they collect?

  7. Www.NoAgendashow.com

    30 May, 2012 - 5:47 pm

    #itm folks, Words matter as they say!

    Its the same skirting around anything that gets in the way that allows Obama to Drone anyone that is fortunate enough to be nominated by the droning panel. Including their own citizens.

    Dont drone me bro!

  8. Watch,DEBTOCRACY,online

    30 May, 2012 - 5:52 pm

    The Greek debt is Odious.!!

  9. FoWL (Friends of WikiLeaks)

    30 May, 2012 - 6:26 pm

    Excellent analysis, thank you!

  10. Craig, typo corrected; I don’t understand the rest, about Facebook, e-mail and login.

  11. The judgement today is a travesty of justice, it is determining the position of judges lining up behind Obama’s backside, tongue’s at the ready, no more, what a bunch of law benders, french text? whatever next, garlic for breakies?

    Something to make you all laugh. If u-turns are done by anyother main party, except the Conservative dimdumb coalition, its called ‘weakness and febrile’.
    According to some young thing called chloe, its a sign of the Conservatives listening and acting upon it.


    Could have me fooled, some 65.000, mostly conservative voters, voted against a technological nightmare incinerator from a dubious US company called wheelabrator, a company that has not build one since 1995 and has no nous of modern MTB and gasification processes.

  12. I agree that the judges are not independent. Decisions are made in the Grand Lodge, or somewhere, not based on any independent hearing or consideration, not based on English or European law, but they have nothing to do with justice. As well as this being true in Assange’s defence today there is a staunch case for holding an inquest into Dr David Kelly’s death. But this is not part of the agenda that these overpaid farts support. When a man clearly breaks the law, as David Lawley Wakelin did two days ago, breaking into the Leveson Inquiry, the police and prosecution service decide they are not going to charge or prosecute him. Now I believe Wakelin was right to say what he did about Tony Blair being a war criminal, which every sane person knows to be a fact, but Wakelin broke the law by intruding into the Inquiry. However, it is not in the interest of this same establishment to prosecute, so they don’t. They want to see Assange sent to Sweden on trumped-up charges from female CIA officers to get him extradited to the US because it is part of the secret agenda. But it is not part of the secret agenda to give an honest man a platform to explain why Tony Blair is what he is. Here is a very short film made by the honest man explaining his position.

  13. “but Wakelin broke the law by intruding into the Inquiry”

    Say to that what the law says, “its not against the law if its in the public interest”, which is what “David Lawley Wakelin did two days ago”. No case to answer.

  14. But the point about all of this – Levenson, the Assange judgement, whatever – is not that we are ruled by criminals, whether in politicians’ robes or judges’ wigs. It’s that we’ve always been thus. And even now when it’s becoming so much more apparent, no-one in the UK actually gives a bugger. As long as they had iPhones and Sky TV, the GBP would vote for Adolph Hitler.

    I’ve given up using the term neo-con when it comes to UK and US govts – and their paymasters in Tel-Aviv. We’re talking neo-nazi, no question about it in my mind. Of course we don’t use such crude terms as anschluss and lebensraum any more – the PR and spin is far too well developed these days.

    In 1945+ a German nation protested “but we didn’t know!” Mainly of course because they didn’t much care to know. Just as so many people in Europe and the USA don’t much care to know now.

  15. But you miss the point Guest. I know you’re being facetious but the reason they have not charged him is because they do not want to give him a platform where the press could show what he said ‘was in the public interest’. These people, Blair, Straw et al, are the real criminals who should be answering to the courts of justice.

  16. Sadly Wayfarer the majority are complacent. Not those who comment on this blog though.

  17. I’ve just scan-read the report though not the appendixes and nearly laughed out loud when I got to para 72
    72. I turn now to Miss Rose’s reliance on the meaning of “autorité judiciaire”
    (“legal authority”) in the context of article 5, to which I referred at para 21. I there
    set out article 5.1(c). Article 5.3 provides: Page 27
    “Everyone arrested or detained in accordance with the provisions of
    paragraph 1(c) of this article shall be brought promptly before a
    judge or other officer authorised by law to exercise judicial power
    and shall be entitled to trial within a reasonable time…”
    How does the above fit in with the detention without trial of Babar Ahmad?

  18. John Goss, yes I know that. That is the reason Blair can’t sue anyone, he doesn’t want a court case, all those e-mails etc, having to go into the witness box, Blair must have nightmares, waking up in a cold sweat at the thought of it all. I bet he doesn’t give a thought about just one of his millions of victims.

  19. geekeconomist

    30 May, 2012 - 10:27 pm

    Not only Eurosceptics but also Euroenthusiasts (like I am) should consider this case carefully and pay attention to coverage and enforcement of rule of law and to protection of human rights in Europe. Today’s ruling by UK Supreme Court sets a bad precedent for European citizens and citizens from third countries residing temporarily or permanently in Europe. You can be extradited without being formally charged and without a judge issuing the EAW. In the Assange case a rogatory letter procedure and questioning in UK would have saved a lot of time and of EU taxpayers’ money.
    This make us believe that the Swedish prosecutor has different objectives than the resolution of the specific case for which she seeked extradition instead of assistance to local authorities to do questioning in a different country.

    In Italy, judges and proscutors who have to question someone abroad asks for support to judicial authorities in the country concerned and go there for interrogation purposes.

    Another aspect of this case is the pending but blatant risk of extradition from Sweden to US (a country which provided official evidence of use of torture and with death penalty as current practice) too often with a fast track procedure circumventing rights set by ECHR.
    Is the abuse of EAW combined with bilateral extraditions agreements between US and EU member states creating a new sophisticated architecture replacing extraordinary renditions? http://bit.ly/Jtum32
    Europe has to avoid that.

    Concerning the legal aspects of today’s ruling, I read today that French prosecutors are *NOT* judiciary in at least 2 European Court of Human Rights cases https://www.flashback.org/sp37608362.
    And in Italy, Supreme Court clarified that EAW is not to be granted for questioning and that it must be issued by a judge (p. 13) http://bit.ly/zBmiQ0

    In the EU Institutions all documents published in the 23 official language can be referred to indistinctly. All language versions have same value. There are three main working languages: English, French and German. No one prevails on the other. And within the EC, 90% of times the original drafting is in English.
    The argument on languages and wording by Lord Philips is groundless.

  20. Craig

    Thank you for fastening on key absurdities in the majority verdict on the Assange extradition case. Surely some of the libertarian and, indeed, Eurosceptic websites and blogs will be appalled at this preference for franglais, this denial of what words in English mean. A prosecutor is not a judge, at least in Common Law.

    I will be doing what I can to make sure that as many as possible who matter politically are aware of this terrible majority verdict. I hope others will be doing so as well; and reporting here on any success in eliciting supportive comments.
    Is there any way to call for the removal of Lords Kerr and Philips on the ground that those illiterate in English cannot be trusted to interpret English Law?

  21. Saw Rory’s second take on Afghanistan and duly felt he missed out a few important points, like the CIA’s concerted plans to create/fund a new kind of radical islam in the Madrassas of Pakistan, like the fact that Bin laden was trained by the CIA in black ops arts, sic, that he was the CIA’s bagman in Afghanistan.

    It was a very sanitised version designed to appeal to breach the ga[p between those in the know who are informing the public, regardless of the misinformation that is spread and those who’d like, still, to pull the right colour weave over our eyes.

    The question has to be asked. Why, if his visit was in 2002/3, has it taken ten years to edit? what makes it now important?

    Is it because we have to justify our imminent exit somehow, save face, once again, having covered up and hidden bodies, with more of the same. A sad indightment, I had high hopes for Rory, I think he could have been a usefull mediator and facillitator in future, when Tajiks will square up to Pashtuns in a power vaccum of our making.
    I feel that Irans situation, faced with large US basdes at its eastern borders and that of Afghanistan, flush with weapons NATOP has to leave behind due to their logistic nightmare, could produce a future alliance the west has never seen before.

  22. Mary,

    People should really be concerned when habeas corpus is being pushed aside.

    This is an important exchange for all concerned about the relations of us – “human beings”:-


  23. Iain,

    ” Is there any way to call for the removal of Lords Kerr and Philips on the ground that those illiterate in English cannot be trusted to interpret English Law?”

    Exposure – exposure – and more exposure.

    I have one in the ECHR – and they simply play politics.

  24. Mark my words Thompson

    31 May, 2012 - 2:19 am

  25. Jay Stephens

    31 May, 2012 - 2:46 am

    Hi Craig. Great article for non-legal-experts-and-laymen such as myself. I have a question which has been at the back of my mind for years due to various similar cases in the past, but which this has really brought to the fore for me.
    Put in very, very crude terms, might it be fair to say this is an example of English law rubbing up against a system influenced by a napoleonic/inquisitorial history, and having to get compromised as a result?
    Not to say that those other systems are any less good, just that if you start accepting some of their terms within the British framework, things break?

  26. I feel a backlash is coming, its a matter of fundamental rights and principles. It will be a backlash to the last 10 years of erosion of human rights in the name of the ‘war on terror’…. to the spending of kazillions on arms, while many starve to death or die of treatable disease….. to the corporatisation of sport and its sell out to big gambling, to the perversion and monopolisation of the traditional media….to the politicians with their self serving obscene pensions and benefits, to Big mining, the Big Pharmas, the corporate barons with their tame remuneration companies, arms traders and drug lords. It will be a backlash to greed corruption and state abuse in all its forms and guises. It is disgust and disillusionment on a massive scale

  27. This is an unpleasant account by two unknowns of yesterday’s proceedings. The legal niceties are lost on them in their emphasis on sex and notoriety. I should think Pilger would roar as being described as a celebrity.

  28. Peter Allen and Rachel Burden talking to Nicky “The Red” Cambell

    THe ECB was described on Radio 5 this Morning As bein called “the Hoover” Buying up all the assets for sale in athens then the line broke.
    we all went to heaven in a little row boat…

    Its all to plan folks its how they work so Ihave learned.

  29. *unt is on at Leveson at 10am.

  30. I have never heard of Rachel Burden. I see she is an Irish national. I wonder what she thinks of the parlous state of the Irish economy brought down by crooked and greedy bankers and developers and then wiped out by the ECB/IMF etc.
    Peter Allen did not get the job to replace Humphreys on Radio 4 Today. Not posh enough apparently. He is an ‘Essex boy’ according to the Torygraph and went to the same school as Straw.

  31. Almost every court throughout England and the United States does this same thing, almost every day. The judges interpret the law in the politically expedient way. Julian was finished from the beginning. Too many powerful people have it in for him. And we are not getting enough anger from the general public about any of our major problems to make a difference. Very often the good guy loses. Just look at Jesus Christ.

  32. Indeed PalSimon, but sometimes the good guys win.
    Three empires have thought that they can rule Afghanistan, all of them failed.
    Maybe we should take this hint with a fencepost right behind our ears, it is an example of courage and determination.

    Julian Assange is in a mucking fuddle, if he gets extradited to Sweden he’ll join Jesus, mark my word, if the Ami’s get their hands on him he’s toast.

  33. meanwhile, a new british ambassador in Tashkent.

  34. willyrobinson

    31 May, 2012 - 10:46 am

    Well written and well argued.
    If this judgement can be challenged, then the supreme court will have to decide between letting Assange remain, or letting this mockery become a precedent…
    Which means it’s off to Sweden to stand trial, but at least he’ll have made the establishment shit on their own laws in the process.

  35. Jeremy Richard Streynsham Hunt is adopting the role of the naughty (public) school boy up before the beak who is debating to himself whether he is going to get the cane. He looks as if he might burst into tears quite soon. As red in the face and as sweaty as Bliar on Monday. I really believe he has convinced himself that he has done nothing wrong.
    Should have stuck to the money making Hotcourses!

  36. John Pilger on yesterday’s ‘proceedings’.
    Unjust legal saga continues for Assange

  37. “We are living in a fascist state.” – we are Mary and Julian is a powerful force who recently postulated powerful and valid questions to ‘Occupy’ academia. Playing ‘devils advocate’ he explored various ways the movement could be undermined by sedition and government ‘plants’ creating schism or attempts to divert the cause by overwhelming ‘face to face’ camps with transients and ex-cons seeking welfare.
    Without blowing my own trumpet I can tell you since my telling on Syria’s massacres/executions I have been locked out of commenting in the Washington Post by ‘system errors’ and the Independent/Telegraph are not inviting further comments or opinion on the latest threat of foreign military intervention outside of international law.
    Foreign fighters in Syria have been frustrated by recent arms seizures by boat or border crossings. Clandestine operations by interested parties have intensified in an attempt to prevent rebels and terrorists from receiving heavy armament such as shoulder fired mortars and automatic weapons. That is the reason American paid thugs are now organizing the Israeli contrived ‘murder by stealth’ of women and children in areas where government forces are actively driving out conclaves of assailants. This action of course invites intervention forgetting the American and British massacres of women and children in Iraq! Fucking mockery.

  38. Article has been linked to on Assange\Wikileaks Twitter feed, so likely to get a few hits.

    I’m afraid though that the ‘argument’ – crafted soundbite really – that Assange should ‘man up and face charges’ is curiously popular. A perfectly intelligent and decent person in my work said much the same thing to me. I merely replied ‘nonsense’. My colleagues is a nice chap, and he’s entitled to his opinion, but it clearly wasn’t worth arguing the point, not in the workplace; it’s not really a point anyway, just a repetition of bad journalism. And he’s wrong. Alas, his view is common, certainly amongst those who aren’t all that interested in the trial.

    And it’s sad that Mr Murray, not a journalist as such, tells us something interesting in his blog, whilst many actual journalists forget to bother. Joshua Rozenberg had a stab at it, though from memory failed to mention the acceptance of the French definition. And The Guardian do a live blog, so that’s something, though I don’t think the blog is much cop. But mostly such matters pass the world of journalism by. Do they teach aspiring journalists that their role is to disseminate propaganda and lies, self-censor, and hide truths in the name of national interest? It sometimes looks like it.

    Still, who needs to read the MSM anymore? Not I, that’s for sure. If you look at the MSM as entertainment, then they don’t do much harm, it’s better to read books anyway if you actually want to understand stuff.

  39. “We are living in a fascist state.”
    That’s an exaggeration. I don’t why anyone feels the need to exaggerate this or hype it up – aren’t the facts bad enough already?
    Great post Craig – welcome back.

  40. Chienfou Have it your own way. Just wait.

  41. How very kind of the Occupier to return the mortal remains of 91 Palestinians to their loved ones. Some have been in Israeli possession since the 70s.
    ZBC is still sticking to their description of the elected government in Gaza as the ‘Islamist militant Hamas movement’ whereas the head PA stooge Abbas has no mandate. That expired several years back. He is therefore not the Palestinian ‘President’.

  42. The Israel shill Jon Donnison knows very well that there were not ‘hundreds’ of hunger strikers. There were over 1,600.
    Two men launched the strike on Feb. 28, refusing food for 77 days, becoming the longest ever Palestinian hunger strikers. At least 1,600 other Palestinian prisoners, more than a third of the prison population, joined the strike on April 17, fasting for 27 days.

  43. Thanks for stopping to post this analysis, Craig, when you’re so busy.

    It is both an encouragement and of practical help to all supporters of Julian and Bradley to have someone so able commenting on proceedings.

  44. Mary: “Chienfou Have it your own way. Just wait.”
    Ditto, Mary, ditto. I am just waiting (have been for a few years) for the financial armageddon to get so bad that theres a national emergency government of all the three main parties to be formed, and to declare that while it lasts there will be no more elections for a “short while”…we should live so long. It was planned out a long time ago to be this way.

  45. Nice post.

    Political suspicions aside, I’m actually rather baffled by the decision reached in this case. What I can’t seem to get my head around is why there are two separate definitions of ‘judicial authority’. The British interpretation of ‘judicial authority’ is merely a statement of fact: it is a body that, to all intents and purposes, makes judicial decisions; in other words, a judge or a panel of judges. This is contrasted with the European interpretation of judicial authority, which, from what I can see, is the broadest definition possible: it effectively encompasses any major player in the legal system. I find this deeply upsetting for two reasons: 1) it means that any prosecutorial authority can compel witnesses from any European state when required , 2) it means that European extradition effectively neuters the legal status of national courts – which in all reality must be given a firm say in any matter concerning the extradition of its citizens. Taken together, the new legal dispensation means that the right of citizens to a fair trial can be suspended (and negated) by the whims of a supranational legal entity.

    Have I got this wrong?

  46. Prosecutors in civil law systems belong to the judicial branch. In common law systems like the UK, they do not. (At least, I assume so. In the U.S., where I live, I know they do not.)

  47. “Chienfou Have it your own way. Just wait.”
    Wait? The world is in a mess. Isn’t it better to try to do something about it?
    Hyperbole and exaggeration encourages the view that there is nothing that can be done – that it’s all hopeless. Why not use what you know to highlight ways for people to fight back? That might stop us becoming a fascist state.

  48. Guest,
    Must commend your optimism: believing that elections are of any consequence in the current single party system that has set up three main head quarters for the benefit of ease of access to all tastes.
    The movies teach us that for fascism to exist, everyone should be wearing a military uniform, a monocle, sport a mustache, zeig heil everything in sight, and click their heels when they a see a woman, and all pronounce their “W”s as “V”s, and pretend to like listening to thunderous classical music. Based on this education we can safely assume fascism does not exist and we are living freely and in peace and prosperity.
    Never mind the raging wars and expansionist policies of the fascio in charge, and corporate friendly laws, that include the electronic cameras that read vehicle number plates and consult the insurance industry computers (private sector) as to make the roads safer with the ever increasing costs of insurance, creating a market which is considered dysfunctional by any standards, and even there are admissions to that effect judging by the noises being made lately.
    Fact that supreme justices are busy pushing the party line and interpreting the laws in a more party friendly fashion is only a display of the unity of government and upper crust, and has nothing to do with the lack of independence of the judiciary from the unitary party line.

  49. With one bound, Hunt was free! Even before he had left the vicinity of the Courts of Justice, Cameron was announcing that he would not be referring Hunt to the parliamentary watchdog. A token vote of confidence? Hunt has the moral fibre of an earthworm. He had considered his position, ie resigning, but decided that Adam Smith should go having told him earlier that he would be OK.

  50. Fedup
    Yes, I knew that, what I said above will happen, they are not going to allow any other party that may spring up and take advantage of the financial armageddon to gain anykind of power. Its called forward planning.
    “We have a financial system that is run by private shareholders, managed by private institutions, and we’d like to do our best to preserve that system.”
    Timothy Geithner US Secretary of the Treasury, previously President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.1/3/2009

  51. Assange was finished as soon as the European Arrest Warrant was issued and judged to be valid by the UK immigration court. Under the terms of the treaty, extradition was meant to be “fast-tracked”, and close to a formality. The UK courts don’t, and neither does the Home Secretary, have the right any longer to examine the basis of the offence allegedly committed under the terms of the EAW, all that’s been taken care of, in theory, by the judicial authority that issued the warrant in the first place. The UK’s role is merely to impliment the terms of the warrant without undue delay, the UK courts don’t have the powers, any longer, to scrutinize whether any crime has been committed, or whether UK law has been broken, all that is irrelevant under the terms of the treaty.
    So the EAW is an incredibly powerful document once issued. What’s even more disturbing is that now the UK Supreme Court has accepted that a warrant can be issued not by a neutral judge on the basis of specific and named charges, but merely by a prosecutor, who obviously isn’t neutral, and just for the purpose of facilitating an interview, which may or may not lead to charges and a subsequent trial, all this fundamentally undermines basic and very old human rights as they are normally understood in the UK.
    And think, Assange has been under house arrest and been forced to wear an electronic tag on his ankle for over a year, like he was a criminal or suspect, and all without any charges being presented, and for alleged actions, offences, which arguably are not even seen as crimes in the UK!
    And it’s not just Assange. Every year well over a thousand people are extradited out of the UK, mostly for petty crimes, under the terms of the draconian European Arrest Warrant, and now the UK courts have actually made it even easier to inforce than previously.
    PS It’s a fundamental mistake to equate new-style fascism, with old-style fascism, with its militarism, uniforms, torch-lit marches, and crass symbolism. Todays’s fascists wear business suits and many of the leaders are women. The old trappings, for obvious reasons, have been dumped. New-style fascism is the gradual merging of the State, the military, the corporations, and the media, also known as the propaganda-wing of the State, into a new whole, that functions without restrictions and towers over society, a society where democracy has been side-lined and has virtually no restrictive capacity in relation to the new-styl fascist State.

  52. If, by way of example – an applicant ( prosecutor) wanted to obtain a “Restraint Order” under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, then:-
    A. A prosecutor – or – applicant – makes an application to a court.
    B. The application made to the court is a tribunal over which a Judge ( read “ Judicial Authority” ) presides.
    C. Then – a decision for – or – against grant of the “Restraint Order” is made.
    How can A be the same as B? Surely, since what the prosecutor thinks or thought he/she could get by way of submission to a “Judicial authority” simply cannot be the same as the decision which finally the “Judicial authority” makes.
    A prosecutor’s decision is simply not the same as a determination by a “ Judicial authority”.
    To put is simply – a judicial authority is authority derived from the exercise of a Judge’s authority/judicial power and pertains to the office which the judge holds. A judicial authority is the authority pertaining to the office of a judge. The judge hears and then determines the issue, question or legal matter in question.
    Leap-frogging from prosecutor to “judicial authority” simply does not make for sound judicial reasoning.
    Is what the prosecutor decides he might get in point of law – the same as what a judge decides can be obtained under law?
    A fish is not a fowl – but this is indeed a “foul” decision against Assange.
    The court has conflated procedural justice with substantive law – and the fish has thus been mixed with the “foul”.
    P.S. Be it also noted that learned counsel pointed out to their Lordships that the decision was based on a point that had not been argued before the court – thus the permission to make an additional application. In layman’s terminology, the judges shifted the goal posts.

  53. Sorry, the paragraph thingy didn’t work for me, damn!

  54. Looking back on what I just posted:-

    ” A fish is not a fowl – but this is indeed a “foul” decision against Assange.
    The court has conflated procedural justice with substantive law – and the fish has thus been mixed with the “foul”.”

    With that type of liguistic slip slide – methinks I now qualfify to be a judge (ha…ha!)

  55. I hope this English precedent will not be carried out in Scotland where of course Scots law applies.

  56. Writerman, I put dots in the blank lines; is that OK?

  57. The Assange case is also sending out a very powerful message to all those who would stand up against or dare to criticise the state/status quo….If the state sets out to get you, it will, and don’t you EVER forget it….Fear is like a weapon, and many bend before it, it explains why so many good people are turning a blind eye to all that is happening.
    “First they came for the communists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.
    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.
    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.”

  58. “If the state sets out to get you, it will”
    meh. there are surely much more important things to never forget than the possibility of being squashed by higher powers for doing the right thing.

  59. It doesn’t follow that Assange will actually be charged with any offence in Sweden.
    It’s extraordinary the number of people who think, and one can forgive them for this, as it’s the impression one gets from the media, that Assange is wanted for the charge of rape in Sweden and that’s why the Swedes want to extradite him, to answer these charges, and this is why they decided to issue a European Arrest Warrant.
    However, there are no formal legal charges against Assange at all. He hasn’t been charged with anything by the Swedish authorites. The Swedes, supposedly, only want to interview him in connection with serious alligations about sexual misconduct of various types, based on interviews they carried out with two women, none of whom allege that they were “raped” by Assange.
    It’s odd that the Swedes contend that Assange’s alleged actions are so serious that they require his extradition from the UK to be interviewed, but, at the same time they don’t think his actions, or their evidence that any crime has infact taken place is strong enough to issue a warrant for his arrest or issue charges. This seems somewhat paradoxical to me.
    With what appear such a weak case, it’s amazing that the Swedish prosecutor has invested so much time and energy in this affair. People assume Assange will, is returning to stand trial in Sweden, but this isn’t certain. The poor chap hasn’t even been charged with anything, so assuming he’s going to stand trial is jumping the gun somewhat!
    As there are no witnesses, sex-tapes, or physical evidence about what happened in the privacy of the bedroom between Assange and these women, how on earth does one prove in a court of law that any crime occured? It’s Assange’s version of events versus the woman involved. Is Assange likely to admit to any crime during questioning, or do the Swedes believe they can get him on a technicality, trip him up, into admitting to some sexual act, or behaviour, that under Sweden’s fiendishly complex sex laws, ammounts to a form of rape?
    Will, if there’s a trial, which isn’t certain, it all ammount to who the judges believe is telling the truth about what happened in the privacy of the bedroom during consensual sex between two people who barely know each other, tastes, and sexual behaviour patterns. How does one establish under these circumstances, who is telling the truth and whose version of events is accurate?

  60. Damn! I did it again, forgot the flippin’ paragraph thingy, sorry!

  61. http://www.johnpilger.com/articles/the-leveson-inquiry-into-the-british-press-oh-what-a-lovely-game
    I love the man, agree with what he says and the style of his writing.

  62. Through Assange’s politcal traverses it is now slowly dawning on us that European law subordinates all others, thats any prosecutor can make it work for them and that judges have become redundant so it seems, we have French laws to quote after all.
    Tris, as long as Scotland stays in Europe its laws will be subject to the same subordination, and despite the EU courts overflowing with a backlog of cases, making justice a wishfull thinking in an uncetrtain future, this will stay as it is, unless the SNP and Greens have something up their sleeves.
    “If the state sets out to get you, it will”
    WEll yes, unless you are an Afghan with a Kalashnikov and a few hundred equally determined fellow fighters. If Assange is an example to the politisation of the swedish judicial system, with brownie points garnered by their prosecutor, then so is the successfull lon term resistance of Afghans to the invasion of their country by the third empire.
    So EU law supersseds our national laws and is used by swedish prosecutors for an ‘interview’ of a possible suspect. Assange is Australian, afaik, so if he would be ‘wanted by another EU state, for non paying of parking fines, or toher, then this should superseed any other extradition request from outside, going by the original french text. By this hirarchy, EU law would superseed any extradition agreements with a country outside the EU, and Sweden would have no say in this.
    Unless thwere are extradition laws which have bee agreed globally to superseed all other, in which case the US, with regards to their own soldiers/citizens falling under such laws, would have opted out of them, making them wholly inapropriate to use, a one way street.
    This whole affair is disgusting to watch and it is spun one way. Lets hope RT, using its own spin, can take this EU edifice apart, it can not be done by Julian himself.

  63. Viktor Tullgren

    1 Jun, 2012 - 10:53 am

    Actually I think this whole process is absurd. And to say that this is a human rights issue is just laughable. What this whole debate has been about is Assange trying to find some way to avoid geting extradited to face charges. Then a bunch of his supporters have tried to fabricate som form of conspiracy. Mostly by trying to question the swedish legal system.

    This situation here is an obvious example. Were the question is simply a mater of procedure. In this case when we talk about the arrest warent. The Swedish system is such that a prosecutor issues an arrest warent and this will stand unless challenged. If challenged then the court will decide if the warent should stand. In the case of Assange this has happened. And the warent has been upheld twice. So the swedish court has judged in this case, twice.

    The only question in this case has been wether or not UK should follow their international obligations through signed treaties or if the court should strike down a law based on a possible bad choice of word. There has never been a question about the swedish prosecutor being a judicial authority as it was defined according to the treaty.

  64. Where oh where has Werritty gone? He’s missing the Jubilee.

  65. Just another day at the office at top of civil service
    Sir Jeremy Heywood assured MPs that everything is rosy with bosom pal Sir Bob Kerslake


  66. Sorry to high-jack this thread, but there is an article at the Herald detailing the contents of a secret goverenment report on Lockerbie.

    “The highly classified document, which has never even been aired in public or shared with the courts, originally came from Jordan and indicates that a Palestinian terrorist group was involved in the bombing that killed 270 people – something the UK Government has vehemently denied.


    Neither the BBC or any other news organisation is running with it showing how sensitive this is.

  67. Hows the weather in occupied Palestine Geomannie

  68. and how are the killings of children and innocent occupantees going, geomannie?

  69. Hmm and then, Geomannie, there is evidence that points to the involement of more sophisticated, what a sick word, powers at work, the CIA perhaps. Do we now disregard it?

  70. Have you looked at the comments on that Herald piece? I almost prefer the Times readership’s opinions.
    The Herald is owned by Newsquest, an offshoot of the US press conglomerate Gannett.
    Judging from this list I would judge that Israel’s interests are foremost.

  71. http://www.gannett.com/section/WHOWEARE01
    From: The Coverage and Non-Coverage of Israel-Palestine
    Written by Alison Weir {http://www.councilforthenationalinterest.org/news/mediabias/item/569-coverage}

    My own personal experiences with newspaper chains have been illuminating.
    A few years ago a reporter from the Gannett newspapers planned to do an article about me and If Americans Knew, which had just begun operating. Gannett is one of the largest news outlets in the nation, with 102 daily newspapers in the United States, including USA Today, the nation’s largest-selling daily newspaper, for a combined daily paid circulation of 7.6 million readers. Gannett also owns a variety of non-daily publications and USA WEEKEND, a weekly newspaper magazine of 22.7 million circulation delivered in more than 600 Gannett and non-Gannett newspapers. As if this weren’t enough, Gannett also owns and operates 21 television stations covering almost 20 percent of the country.
    Needless to say, a Gannett article about our fledgling organization was quite exciting. He interviewed me at considerable length about my experiences in the West Bank and Gaza, sent out a photographer to take pictures of me at home, and directed her to Fed Ex them immediately.
    Then we waited. After a few months, I e-mailed him to ask if I’d missed the piece. He e-mailed back, no I hadn’t missed it. The article had been shelved: “… the top guy here feels like the story is ‘missing’ something.” The article, apparently, is still on the shelf.

    {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gannett} Revenue $5.4 billion Income just under $1 billion

  72. “Hows the weather in occupied Palestine Geomannie”

    “and how are the killings of children and innocent occupantees going, geomannie?”

    You miss my point, unless you mean to.

    I was alluding to the fact that the UK government have suppressed a report that casts doubt as to the perpetrators of the Lockerbie bombing, and would have been highly relevant to the Camp Zeist trial.

  73. That ‘Future of the USA’ article is quite possibly the most wrong-headed thing I’ve ever read. It seems to have no grasp on the formation of the ‘national security state’ and completely ignores the fact that on foreign policy, the two parties have not been this close since the Cold War. At home, it mistakes the fractiousness deliberately cultivated through ‘the culture wars’ for a bug rather than a feature. The policy is divide and rule and it’s working brilliantly.

  74. re Lockerbie think most of the information including docs is herehttp://www.scribd.com/stax68/d/52409411-Lockerbie-The-Flight-From-Justice-Paul-Foot-Private-Eye-Special-Report

  75. lucythediclonius

    1 Jun, 2012 - 1:55 pm

  76. Viktor “So the swedish court has judged in this case, twice.”
    Isn’t that the point being made here? The extradiction request has not come from a Swedish Court but from a prosecutor.
    And fortunately, when it comes to applying the rule of law, the meaning of words is everything. Defining words arbitrarily, as Lord Kerr seems to be doing,is something that happens in totalitarian states not democratic ones.

  77. geomannie, sorry then.

  78. Viktor Tullgren

    1 Jun, 2012 - 3:52 pm

    Chienfou, yes and my point is that this is just a question of procedure no a human rights issue. In UK the prosecutor request a warent from a judge who issues it. In Sweden the prosecutor issus the warent and this can then be challenged and at which point a judge will decide if the warent should stand or not.

    And yes I agree that the meaning of the word is important. Which is why this is an absurd diskussion. Because the meaning of a word always depend upon its context. And in this context the meaning of these words have always been clear. What Assanges lawyers wanted to do was to apply the meaning of the words in a different context to change the meaning and intention of the law and the treaty.

  79. Victor, what prevents the prosecutor iterviewing him at the Swedish embassy in London? If this case warrants an EAW, such an important issue as it is made out by your judges, not political at all, then why not take that opportunity to proceed the case, it was offered by the accused?

    MI6 went and interviewed Cdr. Belhadj, when he was imprisoned and tortured in Libya, they showed an interest in his obviously important case, so they’d been told, only to find out that he survived and has now turned the tables on them and Jack Straw, suing them for wrong detention and torture, but they went to Libya to do it.

    Why is the Swedish prosecutor recitant, why is she prolonging the case and subsequent media circus, further increasing the ‘conspiracy’ as you called it, over fears that Sweden will extradite him?
    If it is not complicated and staright forward why not come here and do it, over and done with.
    Why choose this strenuous means to prolong the agony?

  80. Two war criminals on our screens in one week. Bliar Monday and tonight Alastair Campbell, the spindoctor of the false dossier fame, is the host on Have I Got News For You. Why do Hislop and Merton go along with it? BBC 1 9.30

  81. “Why do Hislop and Merton go along with it?”
    I heard a few years ago that they each get £25,000 a show. If so,theres 25,000 reasons for you ?.

  82. Hillary Clinton now in Norway. Due to go to Stockholm for a one-day visit Sunday.

  83. Mass unemployment. Hopeless youth. Riots. Austerity – and the IMF telling us how much to spend and what to spend it on. Oh, and the Queen, making us all feel good even though we’re swimming in shite. At least the bankers weren’t such a pernicious force in 1977. We should have made this song Number 1. Let’s download it and make it so. There’s no future in England’s dreaming.

    God save the queen
    The fascist regime
    They made you a moron
    Potential H-bomb

    God save the queen
    She ain’t no human being
    There is no future
    In England’s dreaming

    Don’t be told what you want
    Don’t be told what you need
    There’s no future, no future,
    No future for you

    God save the queen
    We mean it man
    We love our queen
    God saves

    God save the queen
    ‘Cause tourists are money
    And our figurehead
    Is not what she seems

    Oh God save history
    God save your mad parade
    Oh Lord God have mercy
    All crimes are paid

    When there’s no future
    How can there be sin
    We’re the flowers in the dustbin
    We’re the poison in your human machine
    We’re the future, your future

    God save the queen
    We mean it man
    We love our queen
    God saves

    God save the queen
    We mean it man
    And there is no future
    In England’s dreaming

    No future, no future,
    No future for you
    No future, no future,
    No future for me

    No future, no future,
    No future for you
    No future, no future
    For you

  84. Viktor Tullgren

    2 Jun, 2012 - 3:01 am

    Nevermind: Well nothing prevents prosecutor from interviewing him at the Swedish embassy in London. Except that the prosecutor dosen’t just want to interview Assange but also wants to formally make him a suspect of the crime, a process that in the swedish juridical process is the first step in order to bring charges to someone. At which point Assange will also get access to all the evidence against him. Since this is done in order to bring him to trial it is rather obvious that the prosecutor would want to get Assange to sweden in order for this to happen. i mean this whole process is meant to bring him before a court which will be able to decide if he is guilty of the crimes he is being accused of or if he isn’t.

  85. Excellent Mike. The BBC’s Witchell actually spoke to Republic’s
    Graham Smith who was allowed a few seconds of airtime as opposed to the thousands of hours of propaganda we have been subjected to.

  86. We have not forgotten Bradley Manning still languishing under Obama’s heel and being subjected to a secret court martial.

  87. Thanks Victor, Personally I find this wholly unacceptable given the rabid noises made by a plethora of US politicians, lawyers and media outlets, they are baying for his blood.

    Swedens extradition laws with the US should not have precedence over this case and unless Sweden recognises that the US does not recognise the EU’s ICC and effectively operates a one sided extradition treaty that shields its own citizens from due justice for crimes committed in Europe, and there are many examples of it, Julian should not be handed over to Sweden.

    Sweden is either a European country with integrity, or it follows the bad example set by the US. I rest my case.

  88. This toady and Conservative Friend of Israel, is the instigator to rename the tower which houses Big Ben the Elizabeth Tower.
    Note which countries he visits, the reasons for going and who pays.
    The John Lewis who gave him £2000 is a private individual and not the department store.

  89. The 416th death of a member of the British army in Afghanistan is reported.

  90. A different *unt writes total crap about Her Maj’s corgis and horses.
    Peter Hunt
    News correspondent
    A day at the races is a fitting start to a celebration of a reign in which horses have provided such pleasure.
    ++Like her corgis, they’re blissfully unaware of the Queen’s status.++
    As a child, she confided in her riding instructor that but for her destiny, she would have liked to be a lady living in the country surrounded by animals.
    As an adult, they’ve been her chief relaxation and escape.
    Her lifelong enthusiasm began at the age of four when her grandfather, King George V, gave her a Shetland pony called Peggy.
    Eight decades on, and now aged 86, she still rides without a riding hat.
    The Queen’s a passionate horse breeder and racer. The breeding’s in the blood. The Royal Stud was founded in the 16th Century.
    She’s won four out of the five flat racing Classics.

    On yer bike Mr Hunt!

    The Derby continues to elude her.


  91. Mary,
    Take a gander at his voting record, and you will find Tobias to be a stalwart supporter of the rich and the powerful. Tobias a twenty four carat arsehole, is sadly endowed with common features of the current bunch of busy bodies come “representatives” bent on ruining the quality of our lives.

  92. Yes I see. Interesting connections too.
    ‘Following his re-election to Parliament, Ellwood was appointed PPS to then Defence Secretary, Dr. Liam Fox, and in October 2011 was appointed PPS to the Minister for Europe The Rt. Hon David Liddington MP in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.’
    Both Fox and Liddington are Friends of Israel apart from their other allegiances.

  93. Seems to be all but forgotten, thats the way some want it.
    ‘Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant disaster in Japan.’

  94. Viktor Tullgren

    2 Jun, 2012 - 12:53 pm

    Nevermind: I’ve never understood why some people thinks it is more likely that he will be extradited from Sweden then from the UK. I know that the UK court didn’t se this as likely and dismissed it.

  95. Thanks Guest. V interesting. Hope Komodo saw your post and Solomon Hughes’ comment. The latter is a writer on the Morning Star. I had not heard of ALEC (what a silly acronym) and have been clicking on the links under About. http://www.alec.org/about-alec/
    They have got us by the proverbials. The private public partnership features prominently.

  96. “The private public partnership features prominently.”
    Should be the other way round!. The public pays the money, the private puts it into offshore accounts.

  97. Is Mr Hussain Lady Warsi’s Werritty?
    Labour said ministers should state whether Mr Hussain was security cleared. They also said his presence on the trips had parallels to the case of Liam Fox, who quit as defence secretary after he was joined abroad by an unofficial adviser, Adam Werritty.
    Michael Dugher, the shadow Cabinet Office minister, said: “This looks like the Liam Fox-Adam Werritty case all over again. David Cameron needs to show he is prepared to make sure his ministers show the highest standards of behaviour.”
    Details also emerged of the extent of Lady Warsi’s travels. She has undertaken 17 trips since July 2010. Eight were paid for by the Government, two by Saudi Arabia and one by an Azerbaijani expatriate group. Six have taken place since January but funding details have yet to be published.
    Note the 17 foreign trips in under two years including one to Azerbaijan.
    Well dodgy.

  98. ‘Judges live in the real world’. The only time I’ve ever done jury service, Circuit Judge Phillips as was, was sorting out a case of a drunk driver pleading not guilty after plowing through several garden fences and a bit of rural sheep-sh…ing or the like. Not the same man,silly. Julian Assange is a deep-state, mind-ops programmee, false-flag law-breaker. Let the punishment fit the crime. Give him a dose of bureau-law and Viking-feminism, he’ll be happy as a pig in muck.
    On the subject of state psychological control, the process of political torture under Arab dictators, was designed to deliver extremists in the Muslim world, who will play the dirty games we are witnessing in Syria. We should not forget that Assad’s only claim to fame is that he is the son of one of those Western puppets. He has had plenty of time to offer a political message to the world about his vision for Syria. None has been forthcoming. Time’s up no 27, same as Saddam Hussein.
    At least the Muslim Brother hood has a message, Islam.
    If Assad had a lick of sense he’d have got himself under the safe custody of a Swedish prosecutor, out of harm’s way for a while.

  99. Is the Jubilee thing happening today? I’m so sorry I’ll miss it. Maybe I can try and find some British ex-pat thingy going on so I can eat cucumber sandwiches and coronation chicken or something. What are you going to do to celebrate?
    Personally, I don’t mind the monarchy. I know a lot of people do, but I just don’t. I know it’s old-fashioned, illogical, pantomimic and unjust. But it’s also unimportant, entertaining and, crucially, already there. Not liking the institution is not a good enough reason for getting rid of it. You’ve got to have a reasonable expectation that the republican alternative – probably some sort of presidency cooked up by contemporary politicians (and you know who they are) – would be an improvement. I say better the devil you know. Particularly when it isn’t a devil but a smiling old woman, albeit with a colossal sense of entitlement.

    Not entitlement, sorry. Duty. Sense of duty. Excuse me while I cut my own head off.


  100. David Mitchell who wrote the Guardian piece is a crawler and typical of the entertainment fraternity
    It’s raining, it’s pouring. HM Queen will need a sou’wester, gumboots and a brolly but later she will be safely enconsced on a red throne under a canpopy aboard The Spirit of Chartwell which has been lavishly decorated for the occasion and lent to her by the Magna Carta Steamship Company. Knighthoods and gongs for all concerned are in the post.
    £10m could have been better spent. We are living in the past and pretending we still have an (evil) empire.
    ‘The £10m cost of the event has been met by private donations but the security costs will be paid for by the taxpayer.’ BBC
    We are not told the cost of the security which must be high. eg teams of police have been crawling under every bridge looking for explosives. There must be at least twenty bridges on the route.

  101. Meanwhile… Warsi is probably not having such a nice time as more is revealed. I said before that she had been to Azerbaijan. Correction – one of these trips was paid for by an Azerbaijan expatriate group.
    Q What was she up to in Uzbekistan? Did she accompany Hammond on his begging visit in March? {http://en.hrsu.org/archives/1418 – Human Rights Society of Uzbekistan}
    ‘Underfire cabinet minister Baroness Warsi spent over £14k of taxpayers cash on trips abroad – despite having no foreign role
    She made 14 visits in two years, including five to Pakistan and others to Bosnia, Kuwait, Kazakhstan, India, Rome, Uzbekistan and Malaysia.’

    What has she been doing?

  102. How the militarisation of this country has seeped through to primary education. It seems that it was considered OK to teach the words of this song to young children ostensibly relating to the Ancient Olympics. The words are chilling and could easily relate to what went on in Bagram, Guantanamo, or Abu Ghraib and the rendition sites.
    The BBC version ameliorates it. {http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-18282517} Withdrawn so all OK except it is now embedded in the children’s minds. The head should be sacked. What has Gove got to say? This should not have been in the curriculum even in a school in Devon which has a gung ho reputation in supporting the Marines, the Military Wives, the Navy at Plymouth and Dartmouth etc.

  103. Bilderberg UK ‘official’ guest list:
    ..and on the official UK guest list are-

    Kenneth Clarke- MP & Secretary of State for Justice
    Marcus Agius -Barclays
    Robert Dudley- BP
    Nick Boles- MP
    Niall Ferguson
    Douglas Flint – HSBC
    John Micklethwait- Editor, The Economist
    Peter Mandleson
    Gideon Rachman- Chief Foreign Affairs Commentator FT
    Peter Voser, CEO RD Shell
    Martin Wolf- Chief Economics Editor, FT
    John Kerr – H of Lords/Trilateral Commission/Shell/RioTinto/Centre for
    European Reform
    Plus two ‘rapporteurs’ from the Economist

    Interesting how many financial journalists there are this year, plus the usual smattering of oil, politics and finance.

    Thoughts ?

  104. Deepgreenpuddock

    3 Jun, 2012 - 10:12 am

    Hi Mary

    David Mitchell who wrote the Guardian piece is a crawler and typical of the entertainment fraternity

    Don’t you think that is just a bit harsh?
    Seriously, he is a comedian who has a particular take on ‘events’.He does not promote anything much vigorously except tolerance. He is quite perceptive and insightful and can reveals many of the absurdities of the current world with his particular style of grounded, worm’s observations. He plays the daft laddie, who is not so daft, (always a hard position to counter) but with a peculiar twist (the view from the lower sixth of a minor, private schoolboy?). I think he can be rather funny and also seems rather humane. Of course he isn’t faultless- he seems to fall back a little too readily on the ‘can’t be arsed’ position- but then, I can relate that too.

    As for the article about the queen, (one of I think three giving a supposedly balanced range of opinions in the Observer), his position, for what it is worth, is about where I would be, except that i think the monarchy is going to expire at some point from natural causes, in the not too distant future. The monarchy is terminally moribund and while many of the underlying assumptions are deeply offensive and unsatisfactory, the mayhem that might ensue from changing abruptly is simply is not worth the hassle.

    I daresay the monarchy can stagger on in some way, and yes I am aware of the heave inducing sycophancy of so many figures with a public profile, especially on the BBC. The Kevin McKenna article alongside the other articles was vomit inducing drivel, vapid sycophancy that plumbed and grovelled in every purulent fissure of the subterranean depths of what passes for brain tissue, in that desperate creep.
    And yet McKenna is from a tradition (irish immigrant, to Scotland) that has every reason to harbour resentments of what monarchy represents and brought to bear on genrations of Irish people. McKenna is probably a better target for your ire.

  105. Hmmm…I take a couple of days off and the quality of the comments improves beyond recognition. There’s a message there somewhere. I can add nothing worthwhile to the discussion on Assange. However it will be interesting to see if Sweden’s justice system has also been subverted, when he gets there.
    Thanks for the pointer to ALEC, Guest. Linking back to PRwatch –
    gives a more detailed account of what’s going on there. Rupert’s support of daft educational schemes has history.
    See also: {http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/article.php?articlenumber=11864}
    I have been more than usually depressed by the news generally but I have been cheered up somewhat by the pissing rain attending the celebrations of 60 years of progressive decline and increasing corruption. I may put on a coat and go and take pictures of the drenched and sheeplike revellers under their dripping bunting, for my future entertainment. Gaaaaah.

  106. Mary…
    “Hope Komodo saw your post”
    I did; I added a couple of links, and my post disappeared. Hopefully it will return. Here is one of the links again:
    ALEC is not unknown to me and I commented on its involvement with Atlantic Bridge some time ago.
    Lest-we-forget link: {http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/08/1024211/-ALEC-scandal-goes-international-UK-Knighthood-Thatcher-and-3M-involved}
    It is also a prominent lobbyist for private education, and there is a clear link with Murdoch’s enthusiasm for Gove’s destructive activities.

  107. David Mitchell disgraced himself on by schmoozing with Alistair Campbell on the 2nd series ’10 Oclock live’ show, and going along with the 2nd series scripts after the first series was promisingly earnest. “10 oclock live” turned out to be confused, degrading faux-prog drivel.
    Hislop and Rob Nobel did better to keep Campbell quite uncomfortable with wmd jibes on hignfy last week.

  108. Don’t you think that is just a bit harsh?
    No just sick of the sycophants and crawlers who are all over the media, especially within the audio visual output. It has been excessive to the exclusion of reality.
    I agree with your analysis on the future of the monarchy though.
    http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=1315 :)

  109. ,
    Let’s hope it pisses down on her parade and washes away the tawdry blood-soaked bunting of the imperialist racist fascist islamophobic british flag which is ubiquitous as swastikas at a nuremberg rally and disgracefully being placed in the hands of innocent children conditioned to form the next generation’s cadre of flag-waving fascist warmongering shills.

    ZBC has been broadcasting ‘jubilee’ (from the hebrew) propaganda since 6am this morning and yet not one mention of the plight of the Palestinians as of 9:24am, proving beyond doubt that the so-called pinko-Marxist ZBC is in actual fact the propaganda arm of the zionist entity. The masses having been prompted by the ZBC beaming breivik salutes into their living rooms 24/7 are now overtly celebrating fascism on the streets exactly as tpb intended.

    Irony is genteel types passing around seemingly innocuous cucumber sandwiches at village garden parties as a coded way of saying we don’t really want foreigners in our country whilst glorifying a head of state of german ancestry married to a man with greco-Nazi bloodlines who routinely makes racist comments about Indians despite encouraging the mass-consumption of coronation chicken, of which curried powder is a key ingredient, but wouldn’t dare say the dish looks as if it has been assembled by an Indian in the context of consuming elitist rectory garden cuisine.

    We are living in a fascist state.

  110. Annoying and outdated though the monarchy and jubilee shenanigans are, surely someone must have some thoughts on Bilderberg?

  111. Some but not all the usual suspects are there Ruby but surprised that Bliar is not on the list. What else can we say? It was ever thus and they are just laughing at us.
    As a diversion from the reenactment taking place on the Thames, I switched to Ch 81. Big mistake. The Obombers were hosting the war criminal Bush and his wife at the unveiling in the White House of the Bush portraits. Sickly speeches from Michele and Laura.
    This was followed by a video of Obomber giving the Presidential Medal of Freedom! to ‘The Price Is Worth It’ Madeleine Albright and to 12 others, some of them posthumous. One went to Shimon Peres. The list is here {http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/presidential-medal-of-freedom-obama-to-honor-bob-dylan-john-doar-and-more/2012/05/29/gJQAcxzUzU_blog.html}
    Obomber is adept at tasks like these. Grinning widely, cracking a few jokes and being generally the nice guy. What a Jekyll and Hyde character.

  112. Mary: David Mitchell who wrote the Guardian piece is a crawler and typical of the entertainment fraternity.

    Oh, do cheer up love!
    I don’t really know what you would have in the place of that dreaded old Queen we serve under (I’m talking about Liz not David Cameron, ha ha ha!) but do you honestly trust any of our elected representatives to do a better job of being head of state than her? I actually tend to agree with Mitchell in the sense that while I know there is no real legitimate reason for having a monarchy you had better think of something much better before you can get rid of it. And no, nothing that you will find in the Morning Star is remotely better than the clunky constitutional arrangements we have right now. Now cheer up and have a coronation chicken sandwich already!

  113. Ruby Smith: Annoying and outdated though the monarchy and jubilee shenanigans are, surely someone must have some thoughts on Bilderberg?

    I do! I think, “How very, very interesting!”

  114. Jewbilee: That’s so amusing what you did with the word “jubilee”! And it is so funny about the way in which the country is being turned into a fascist state with the aid of cucumber sandwiches. It must be a dastardly Ju plan! (Did you see what I did there?)
    Anyway, I hope you’re all happy that the God of Quantum Global Conciousness has rained on Her Maj’s parade, quite literally. Perhaps next time we could have a constitution that celebrates national brotherhood (and sisterhood, natch!):
    Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
    And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
    And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
    And everybody hates the Jews.

    Just so that you know, some of you guys (and gals!) who think you’re being so out there and progressive with your Jew hatred should read your King James and realize that there’s nothing new under the sun!

  115. “I’ve never understood why some people thinks it is more likely that he will be extradited from Sweden then from the UK. I know that the UK court didn’t se this as likely and dismissed it.”
    Victor, the UK courts would say this, would they not? Once Julian Assange is under Swedish jurisdiction, nobody has control over the machinations that will follow, giving the noises made by US hawks, who knows what lawyers can throw at a court to divert one case upon another, I’m no expert and don’t want to be one, ever, but I think that we had enough of the behind the scenes manipulations of our justice system in Europe by some who think the worlds owes them everything and more.
    If a Us citizen/soldiers commits a heinous sexual murder in your country and manages to get to the US embassy without being arrested by the Polis, he will be flown out within 24hrs. never to be returned to face justice. These cases are littering the court annals of wherever there is a US base.
    It is outrageous that the US is not accepting the ICC’s jurisdiction and until that changes, nobody should be extradited for piffle and fluff. 2 million people were privy to the information allegedly leaked by Bradley Manning, not secrets at all, imho, now look at what torture and deprivations had done to the poor chap.
    And Swedish courts can envisage such a scenario, whether they can prevent it under international agreements is highly questionable. My views have not changed, Swedens position is as nebulous as it was since the case occurred, if it really feels these women need justice, then they should proceed with the case in any way possible. If that means to interview him in London, then they can take that step.

  116. Ooooh I love the bloody Queen, me! And it is so exciting that they’ll be talking about pagentry with Richard. E. Grant!!!!

  117. So who wants to bet there’ll be a big false flag dirty bomb on the Queen’s flotilla. Yeah, I know that would be bittersweet for Mark and Mary! :D

  118. Mary, David Walsh at the WSWS, has a terrific piece on the Medal presentations largely because Dylan was among them. Also a sharp, and well deserved dig, at the political formation formerly known as IS and half way to Euston.

  119. Chris 2. Thanks. Will look it up.
    Angry – You are not on the rice wine are you? It’s alright for you away from it in Japan.
    I couldn’t say it better than these people on Medialens.
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1338730381.html and above their posts, some tweets from some of the crawlers in the ‘medja’.
    LOL :)
    And watch out for all that irradiated seafood Angry. Every blue fin tuna being landed in California has a dose from Fukushima.

  120. Keep drinkin’ the Kool-Aid Angrysober – you might find somethin’ new under the sun. Meanwhile:
    Thanks to ZBC’s image blunder and command foreign fighters cum whistle-blowers who took their dollar payment and dumped their fourth generation BID150, the massacre of at least 108 people near the town of Houla is exposed.

  121. The bused in vetted “spectators” applauding on the bridges, and elsewhere joining in the celebrations of the dear leaders long rein, was that in Pyongyang, or in London?

  122. I almost feel sorry for the old dear having to endure this boring pastiche of HMS Pinafore in now drenching rain with a cold easterly wind. As with anything contrived, there is no substance. Even the male royals could not wear normal clothes. They are all in military rig with an abundance of medals and gold braid. That’s right boys. Keep banging the drums. No mention in the sickeningly trite commentaries about the latest military death in Adfganistan, the 416th British one. They also keep telling us that it is not costing us a penny. Oh really?
    Kate’s outfit alone is many £hundreds and as for the cost of the sideways on flying saucer millinery, well that’s only a guess.

  123. I don’t have a telly on, and here at mine there is no sign of the jubilee apart from comments on this thread. The weather is very grey and wet, a miserable day for outdoor celebrations. I expect lots of people are putting on a brave face, much like at the Maldon Mud Race a month ago. I’ve lit the wood stove, which makes watching the rain quite pleasant.

  124. Ho hum…the Germans are having a party in London !!

    Thanks be to the gods that i am missing all the slobbering sentimentality whilst blowing up landmines in Sudan.
    Lots of little boats whizzing up the Thames…jolly parties in sink estates…bunting and flags in the streets….ghee whiz…yet no news on any celebrations in Scotland…wonder why !

  125. At least no one turned up with a semi-automatic weapon to force me to go out and “celebrate”.
    Crab: “Hislop and Rob Nobel did better to keep Campbell quite uncomfortable with wmd jibes on hignfy last week.” – Yes, I thought that might happen…

    ‘CENTRAL London ground to a halt last night as thousands of motorists slowed down to gawp at the mangled wreckage of Alastair Campbell.
    Eyewitness Tom Logan, a lawyer from Finsbury Park, said: “It was like it was in slow motion. All these words came tumbling out of the middle of his face and just went crashing headlong into this huge truck full of truth and sanity that was coming the other way.’

  126. Majority of MPs back renaming of Big Ben Clock Tower as Elizabeth Tower for Jubilee

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2153553/Majority-MPs-renaming-Big-Ben-Clock-Tower-Elizabeth-Tower-Jubilee.html#ixzz1wlGfya2I

  127. Hi Clark,
    I watched it all through today and Hislop really did mess Campbell up! He mentioned how Blair got called a “war criminal” so politely at the enquiry (bbc news previously summarized decietfully – ‘a protestor shouts abuse..” )
    Hislop also recalled that a million people protested against going to war with iraq and the government ignored them, like the current one tried to ignore the pasty tax opposition! During the course of the show he even jibes how Campbell should be arrested. Its a good one!

  128. Having failed to find any information about trustees on the website of the Queen Elizabeth Diamond Jubilee Trust, I went to the site of the Commonwealth Secretariat.
    There the list is given. Names are representatives of banking/King, the CoE/Chartres, the FCO and UN/Geidt, Carlyle Group’s and general stooge when a stooge is needed/ Major, Commonwealth’s Sharma and lastly the late Secretary General of NATO, the warmingers’ warmonger Lord Robertson of Port Ellen. Dunblane always comes up in any search on him.
    What a wonderful collection. The gangsters-in-charge.

    Commonwealth Secretary-General Kamalesh Sharma will serve on the Trust’s Board of Trustees, which is chaired by former British Prime Minister Sir John Major.
    The Trust will be in existence for five years. Fundraising will take place during the Jubilee year itself (6 February 2012 – 6 February 2013) and funds will be distributed thereafter.


    As well as Sir John and Mr Sharma, the Board of Trustees comprises: Sir Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England; Sir Richard Chartres, Bishop of London; Sir Christopher Geidt, the Queen’s Principal Private Secretary; and Lord Robertson Of Port Ellen.


    More details about the Trust, including a way to contribute, can be found at the Trust’s website: {http://www.jubileetribute.com/}
    A visit to this site opens with a donate page. The emphasis is on getting hold of your money.

  129. How comfortable will those citizens who were cheering today feel when they hear the news just breaking of another death of a British soldier in Helmand province, the 417th since 2001?
    The monetary costs of today’s events are reported here – http://www.channel4.com/news/who-pays-for-the-diamond-jubilee

  130. ‘Guardian’ ‘Assange’

  131. Thank God it’s raining. It will help to wash away the smell of swine slurry deposited in the mosque behind my house by the possible presence of war-aider and abetter Liam Byrne. Like William Hague and Libya/ Syria, those mullahs seek out the pongiest wafters of war-crimes and rub their perfume into their beards and clothes.

  132. Thanks be to the gods that i am missing all the slobbering sentimentality whilst blowing up landmines in Sudan.

    Well done that man. Let’s hope you find time inbetween missing the celebrations to mention your heroic activities in Sudan.

  133. Gap Yah = Jewbilee

  134. Mark Golding, this’ll interest you.
    Crab, I thought you told me this would never be done.
    Backdoor Found (Maybe) in Chinese-Made Military Silicon Chips:

  135. Backdoor <= secret factory debug mode. The big issue is could such a sequence of doors exist which could ever be utilised. I recall such foreseen computing distasters such as the y2k bug, the overloaded internet, possibilities blown out of proportion. Scary thing is theyll probably make 'invicible ground droids' in a while, maybe with a chinese backdoor in each digital demons cryogenic id…

  136. Clark:
    The recent revelations about Stuxnet (though the secret was roughly equivalent to the Israeli nuke secret) are particularly ironic considering only days before the US announced it considers cyber attacks an act of war. Imagine if Iran was running around assassinating US scientists and blowing up scientific facilities (Stuxnet literally caused the centrifuges to ‘explode’, and it was estimated that 45% of the centrifuges were affected).
    I read The Journal link, but apart from Assad’s claims that the govt was innocent of the attacks, it didn’t provide any other evidence of foreign involvement, do you have more details?
    Re: David Mitchell and the Jubilee media coverage:
    Lets not be too hard on David Mitchell, he surely isn’t a revolutionary, but Peep Show has to be the best comedy made in a long time, especially the earlier seasons. Also, even in Peep Show it’s pretty obvious he is basically establishment left, his (very funny) rant on the pro’s of consumer capitalism makes this plain; youtube.com/watch?v=q3cUmHAs3yY
    I watched maybe 5 minutes of the BBC coverage, but I got a good laugh when one of the female presenters described the event as ‘extremely democratic’. I dunno, I’m certainly not a monarchist (especially since the Queen fired an Australian Prime Minister), but when it comes to establishment figures, the royals do seem to be more decent than most. At least they seem to value something other than the pure pursuit of money. I guess I can’t get too worked up about the royals, because there are so many other institutions in the world that need to be fixed/replaced first.

  137. 4 June 2012
    A strike by an unmanned US drone aircraft has killed 15 people near the Afghan border, Pakistani officials say.Two missiles are reported to have hit a suspected militant compound before dawn in Hesokhel, to the east of Miranshah, the capital of North Waziristan.
    The frontier tribal region is considered a hub of activity by al-Qaeda and Taliban militants. There have been ++ eight US drone strikes in the past two weeks ++despite Pakistani demands for them to be stopped.
    In the latest incident, the first missile struck the compound in Hesokhel before dawn, killing three militants, security officials said. A second missile then killed 12 more militants who had arrived at the scene, they added. {http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18320431#}
    Obomber does not have any idea who he is ordering to be killed. The resulting deaths of innocent civilians surrounding his selected target are purely random.
    ‘The excellent, astounding New York Times story by Jo Becker and Scot Shane published on May 29 and vigorously discussed on this site by Ralph Nader, says that Obama decided to take personal control of the White House’s secret and unconstitutional death list after reading Augustine and Aquinas. “A student of writings on war by Augustine and Thomas Aquinas, he believes that he should take moral responsibility for such actions. And he knows that bad strikes can tarnish America’s image and derail diplomacy.” Notice how the paragraph devolves rapidly from moral duty to pr.’

  138. Even more of these terrible planned executions are taking place and nothing is being said on the ‘news’ broadcasts which consist mainly of the four day long Jubilee. Yet this morning there is much coverage of a plane crash in Nigeria which was accidental presumably.
    Drone blitz on Pakistan enters third straight day
    Up to 27 people have died in strikes that began on Saturday as US shows no signs of bowing to Pakistani objections

  139. BBC coverage of yesterday’s ‘pageant’ is being panned in the Independent and Telegraph, almost word for word

  140. Mary: ‘Drone blitz on Pakistan’

  141. Cheebacow
    Hi. The Assad government is not morally innocent of the attacks which have been carried out by others. Of course these brutal murders of innocents have been done by political Muslims trying to discredit Assad. They are sponsored by Cameron and Hague, and paid for by Saudi and Qatar. The whole world except the media know that.
    The point is that Assad is the uncompromising son of a brutal dictator, neither of them representative of anything but their own brutality. If Assad cared a sausage about his people or his country he would have seen the scam that is putting the Zionist controlled Muslim Brotherhood and created a democratic alternative which would have put Syrians in power.
    The people who control the massacres are sitting in London on copious benefits, having spent years of political struggle in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan. A million corpses are nothing to them. US, EU UK bombs can rain from the sky for months on the Syrian people, Civil war, invasion by US troops based in Israel.
    The political asylum seekers sitting in London don’t mind what befalls Syria, because the time for their enthronement as Archbishops of Islam is near.
    Even then, the buck stops at the top. Assad is just sitting in Damascus eating Russian caviar.

  142. Fascist-on-Thames

    4 Jun, 2012 - 10:53 am

    At least they seem to value something other than the pure pursuit of money.

    I’m afraid this is one of the benefits of aristocracy. Just about all the criticism on these pages is levelled against the pursuit of power and wealth, but the aristocracy, having been born into generations of both, is the least interested group in this regard. Unjust, yes, and it brought a multitude of other problems, but you will not find many others; even revolutionaries succumb to the trappings of power once they find themselves in charge.

  143. “…secret factory debug mode”; OK, but why make it secret? Just make it possible to change the key, and document it. Could such vulnerabilities be lucrative?
    The Vulnerabilities Market and the Future of Security

  144. ‘Even revolutionaries succumb to the trappings of power once they find themselves in charge.’
    Let’s get it straight. Politics is about ego, self, me, power, sex, money. For the pursuit of these things slogans are required.
    What better slogan than a religious one? Fid. Def. Sheikh. Guru.
    These are the favourite slogans of the ambitious, the greedy, the selfish, the ones who think only about themselves.
    It takes only a few snippets of wisdom to convince the masses that their hearts are in the same place as theirs.
    Let’s face it, ‘Up my own arse’ would not look as good stamped onto the currency as ‘Defender of the Faith’.
    Jesus peace be upon him described the rabbis of his time as ‘whited sepulchres’. They scheme and plot with the enemies of their faith. They had the key to heaven. They did not go in themselves and they did not let anyone else in either.
    That’s the definition of fundamentalism, wanting to put or keep one’s own bottom on the seat of power.

  145. Mary,
    This may be a helpful piece of jigsaw that has been kicked into the air, and bits have been landing around the place ever-since the 2000 election of one ex draft dodging cheer leader and user of exotic substances became to be the “commander in chief” as he repeatedly reminded everyone about it.
    American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).
    This set up along with the plethora of other secret and semi secret clubs are in place to fuck up the world as per the wishes of a bunch of old men whom could hardly control their bladder yet decide as to what to do to millions of human beings because their henchmen can take orders and carry these out orders, to the letter, regardless of how crazy, stupid and moronic these orders may turn out to be.
    You are a bit behind the curve, the Chinese hardware tampering has been the source of anxiety for spooks and security merchants ever since 1989. So far as the security futures go, given the leaky Microsoft products, and the weired and wonderful taps set in place on the communication hubs, no one can ever lose shorting on these.

  146. A bit of over there (Afghanistan) over here (US of Z);
    New fire threat: People living in storage units
    Utah police found several people living in self-storage units who were using heaters and knocked passageways in the walls

    So the cultural exchange of living in transport containers, caves and holes from Afghanistan to US in exchange for the years of heavy bombings with the most expensive ordinance ever devised by mankind really vindicates those wanky economics arguments of war is good for ye!

  147. Thanks Fedup.
    Have just seen on BBC News a fleet of Waitrose lorries delivering the picnic hampers to Buckingham Palace for the lucky 10,000 attending the concert given by all the has- beens. As you have probably seen, Heston Blumenthal features in Waitrose adverts. He organized the food content of the hamper.

    No product placement signs were shown for Waitrose or Heston Blumenthal. Oh sorry my mistake! BBC is not allowed to advertise. Not long ago, he was allowed to monopolize nearly an hour’s worth of airtime on the One Show virtually flogging his book and his wares. My complaint to the BBC was given a rebuff.


    The picnic – http://www.itv.com/news/2012-06-04/buckingham-palace-picnic-hampers-by-heston-blumenthal-ahead-of-diamond-jubilee-concert/
    Must be nice to read for those on subsistence diets and food bank supplies.
    The Jubilee hamper will include:
    Chilled British country garden soup
    Tea-smoked Scottish salmon
    Diamond Jubilee chicken
    Vegetarian option: mushroom parfait
    Fresh bread rolls
    Country Life butter
    Crunchy seasonal crudities
    Lemon and caraway Madeira cupcake
    Chocolate indulgence cupcake
    Sandringham strawberry crumble crunch
    Waitrose West Country farmhouse cheddar and red Leicester
    Duchy Originals from Waitrose oaten biscuits
    Duchy Originals from Waitrose harvest chutney
    12 Hand wipes
    Clear plastic cutlery and napkin
    Diamond Jubilee poncho
    Union flag

    PS Why can’t Maitlis and most of her colleagues pronounce diamond and royal? ie dimond and rorl.

  148. I can’t see Barroso and Van Rompuy being much a threat to Putin whom they are attempting to screw down.

  149. Viktor Tullgren, here are some reasons that people think Assange’s extradition to Sweden is a step towards his extradition to the US:

    All of this merits particular emphasis now in light of yesterday’s ruling by Britain’s Supreme Court that Assange must be extradited to Sweden. For reasons I explained yesterday on Democracy Now,
    there is a very well-grounded fear that this extradition is intended to be the first step in his inevitable rendering to the U.S. for prosecution. Ample evidence, including my prior reporting,
    proves the Obama DOJ has an active Grand Jury investigation of WikiLeaks. Some evidence, albeit not entirely reliable,
    has emerged stating that they have already obtained a sealed indictment. That there is now a flurry of recent activity at exactly the time when it was known the British Supreme Court would issue its extradition ruling — suspected WikiLeaks supporters being aggressively accosted by the FBI
    while Hillary Clinton is now meeting with top officials in Sweden —
    adds to the reasonable suspicion that the U.S. is seeking to exploit Assange’s extradition to Sweden as a means of bringing him to the U.S. to face prosecution under espionage charges. That this administration has an unprecedented fixation on secrecy and prosecuting whistleblowers — while key Democratic Senators such as Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein have publicly called for Assange’s prosecution for espionage —
    makes this all the more likely.


  150. Guano,
    Can we pause for thought here. Is it not the aim of the ‘war-lords’ to promote schism to conquer? Are we not over-whelmed by division in this world? Should we not promote unity based on recent historical evidence of Western bloodbaths and discrimination? I believe we can make a positive contribution by promoting accord. I say this in light of my experience as a young lad in South Africa. I experienced the separation on buses, toilets and even which side of the road to walk on. We were forbidden to talk to black people. I read all the ‘Not for South Africa Eyes’ signals, most SECRET even today that exposed the deception of shaking hands with the right while holding a gun in the left.
    I understand the philosophy of Sayyid Qutb.
    In 2003 Paul Berman wrote a classic piece of disinformation and deception entitled ‘The Philosopher of Terror’ which attempted to draw a picture of Sayyid Qutb’s over-whelming influence on the September 11 terrorist hijackers. It was a classic piece of charactor assassination and more, a deadly arrow of influence directed towards cerebral Americans, liberal hawks and the scholarly left, attempting to agglomerate together radically different elements in the Muslim world into one homogeneous enemy camp as justification for ‘liberal intervention’ – preemption – or smashing down the doors and butchering the occupants. Berman’s book was a best-seller, an evangelistic piece of brain-washing on ordinary folk, a successful attempt at mass ‘consentual’ for the ‘Shocking and Awesome’ annihilation in Iraq based on a lie.
    It is a mistake or a distortion to equate al-Qaeda with Qutb’s contribution to contemporary Islamism.
    Assad eating Russian caviar is of course similar to breaking the bread.

  151. What an insulting arrogant b*****d. It’s not alright for Paxman on his £1m plus salary to throw insults at the Greeks. Good for the Minister who took him up on it.


  152. The report is based on a chronology of events as well as eyewitness accounts. Entire pro-government families in Houla were massacred. The terrorists were not pro-government shabbiha militia as conveyed, in chorus, by the mainstream media, they were in large part mercenaries and professional killers operating under the auspices of the self-proclaimed Free Syrian Army (FSA):
    The lies exposed and yet there seems to be no one taking any notice, strange times we live in.
    THE HOULA MASSACRE: Opposition Terrorists “Killed Families Loyal to the Government”


    The plot for turning the Med into a private lake, by excluding the Chinese and Russians from this area, along with the undermining of the Iranian allies in the area, are a prelude to an all out war that is to follow on China and Russia. The expansionist fascist polices of the US and toadies masquerading as the forwarded concepts of “plutonomoics”, are no less that the lebensraum principles, this time presented as security of the planet!

  153. British royal family pushing for tax increase: Analysed:

  154. Oh dear. All that standing around for hours on end in the cold and damp was not beneficial. Bit of a downer on tonight’s Gary Barlow benefit.
    4 June 2012 Last updated at 17:08

    Prince Philip taken to hospital with bladder infection
    The Duke of Edinburgh has been taken to hospital with a bladder infection, Buckingham Palace says.
    Prince Philip, who is 90, had treatment for a blocked coronary artery in December.
    The news comes ahead of a Diamond Jubilee concert due to be held at the palace on Monday evening.
    The event will be attended by 12,000 people and will end with the Queen due to light one of 4,500 beacons across the world marking her 60-year reign.

  155. Paxman’s brother Giles is Ambassador to Spain. Kept that quiet.
    Jeremy Paxman’s diplomat brother involved in bizarre flag row
    The diplomat brother of Jeremy Paxman was involved in a bizarre diplomatic row yesterday after Royal Navy gunmen were accused of using a Spanish flag for shooting practice.

  156. Sorry but that Spanish flag story is three years old.
    This is Giles Paxman anyway.

  157. Thanks Clark, you put the icing on the cake. Victor surely must understand that membership of the EU community and adherence to the ICC jurisdiction, is not exclusive to us, but it is acknowledged by many other countries round the world.

    Onesided extradition treaties with countries not a signatory to the ICC should ideally be banned, recinded and outed, they are wrong.

    It is questionable whether Sweden ever had a case for an extradition warrant, since the Wikileaks release, privy to 2 million other US citizens, and Bradley Manning who told us, alledgedly, plus Swedens pretence of impartiality, the posing of the public Prosecutor, rather than advancing the case, not to speak of the extraordinary traffic with the US, consultations, visits, etc., as Clark so aptly shows in his links, all developments surrounding the apparent affair, has clearly clouded impartial minds and independence.

    Julian Assange’s offer of being interviewd in London is the best possible option for the swedish prosecutor unless she does want to fuel the conspiracy theory’s even further.
    If Sweden genuinely wants to seperate an alledged crime from baying hawks, who’d want the man locked up forever, or worse, then now is the time to do it.

    It would also force the british Governments hands, seemingly relying on Sweden to do the job it otherwise will be asked to do, that doggy tail, slavenly relationship.

  158. Nevermind, I was astounded when a friend described Assange as a creepy slime-ball or something. This friend is supposedly progressive; a Guardian reader and signed up with Amnesty International.

  159. This Australian radio programme, Legal Matters, has Christine Assange (mother of Julian) talking to Tim Shaw. It also has Australia’s foreign minister, Bob Carr, phoning in to defend his government’s position. Carr disgusts me.
    It is quite evident that Carr is in cahoots with his US masters. He even says that the the US is not interested in Julian Assange. But my big worry is that no charge is made against the Wikileaks founder and he ends up in confinement without any allegations being laid against him.
    There’s a bit of rubbish you have to listen to before it gets started. Not my fault!

  160. I am glad that some justices at least dissented from the judgment. Hopefully the Eurosceptic influence will cause the legislation to be tightened up to better protec tboth the sovereignty of parliament and the rights of citizens.

    Having said that, Assange is accused of a sex crime in a civilised ocuntry (Sweden). Does anyone doubt that he would receive a fair trial there?

  161. Did he meet him, this friend of yours? One can judge people on their past record, but their demeanour? their appearance whilst under constant media pressure?

    One can easily asceratin whether someone is lying and or is uncertain, but ‘ a creepy slimeball?’

    Think nothing off it. Some lefties are so closetted they are sitting, philosophically speaking, right next to Pinochet/ Adolf, a common problem with hardliners both left and right.

    Totally OT and just for you, Clark, please beware, message will self destruct in 30 seconds’
    Have a look at Surlingham.org
    for our June events guide. its under ‘special events’. Workshop bookings are coming in thick and fast.

    But then, you said he was ‘progressive'; a Guardian reader who pays his pennance to AI.

  162. Abe Rene, if you listen to the radio link in my comment above you will hear that neither of the young women cited in this case has signed a statement against Assange and both have stated that sex was consensual, even though there is some evidence to indicate at least one of these women has had contact with the US secret services.

  163. Also, if you listen to Bob Carr he says that ‘sealed indictments’ do not exist in the US. Who do you believe, Bob Carr or Wikileaks?

  164. Nevermind, no, my friend has never met Assange, and has presumably formed opinions from the corporate media.
    Thanks for the Surlingham link. I’ll try to come along to that, but I could be busy on the 23rd.

  165. John Goss,
    This confirms what we knew 3 months ago:

  166. Antony Blair is being paid $13 million to advise the brutal dictator of Kazakhstan.
    Blair was fortunate to lead Labour just as Tory Britain imploded; but the old Blairite formula offers nothing to those who want a real alternative to the Conservative crusade.

  167. It’s frightening, Mark Golding. But I always suspected foreign involvement since Syria is one of the countries on the US hit list. I think the 2003 list is complete when Syria and Iran fall into western hands. The US taints every country it operates in, and all its allies doing the dirty work for the US. And all this for oil and strategic influence!

  168. Mark
    The knowledge of Islam is vast and yet everywhere we see Muslims modelling their institutions on the opposite of Islam. The trick outside Islam is to convince the people that Allah delegated a tiny portion of His knowledge and power to another lesser being, and hence the lesser being can delegate as well until we have human beings in charge, controlling the people to their own advantage.
    The Qur’an expressly forbids the formation of sects, hizbs and the reason is that a Muslim has a living relationship with God, His Word, His Heart. Humans are creatures of spirit as well as flesh. When the spirit leaves, the flesh dies. The idea of the sect is to encapsulate an agreement in order to lessen the problem of disagreement. I agree with my wife I will always walk the dog after breakfast on Tuesdays. If I break my agreement what should I do. It’s such a stupid idea to pin human beings down to a fixed contract within a fixed group. I need a flexible relationship with my wife to reflect the reality of my life, but with fixed parameters about morality, and family structure.
    The political Muslims freeze life into cryo-dumbness. The submission of my will to the definitions of a sect is in direct contradiction to the submission of my will to Allah. My conscience, which you call conscious, is responsible for answering when it is raised up on the day of judgement for what I did in this life. No sheikh or guru is going to be allowed to answer for me because I followed their instructions to make division and conquer for Islam. The victory of Islam is the victory of conscience, from any human being who does it for the sake of God’s teaching and from the purity of their own heart.
    It is not sufficient to believe in the Oneness of Allah and follow the ways that differ from His prophet SAW. The Jews believe in the Oneness of Allah, but follow their own desires.
    How can the Muslim Brotherhood or my local mosque work politically with the CIA or war-criminal M.P.s pretending to promote the interests of Islam when they simultaneously have to bow to the pressure of their patrons.
    No compromise.No politics. No sects. The sects close their ears to any evidence which is better than the framework which suits their own purposes. The destruction of Islamic power was achieved not by Western ruthless power but by betrayal from mullahs who desired their own advancement and power.

  169. Wikileaks has revealed how both Kim Beazley and Rudd have privately reassured the U.S. that Australia will support them in the event of a war with China.
    I hate speculation But I do know from my own contacts British naval war planners are discussing Asian Pacific scenarios that involve strategies needed to block oil supplies to China. A valid hypothesis might well suggest an attempt to break the Iran/Russia/China alliance by a strike on Iran. I am convinced of this, I hope I am wrong. The worlds powers are certainly becoming acutely menacing and walking an unhealthy path to nuclear confrontation.

  170. War Drums for Syria?
    The Medialens editors, David Cromwell and David Edwards, say this:
    ‘Ron Paul’s honesty on Syria is in a different league from even our best liberal media. Compared to this piece, Guardian and Independent editorials read like Downing Street press releases. That ought to be deeply shocking.
    Remember, the Guardian was the supreme cheerleader for Blair, just as it is now for Obama.’

  171. If Ron Paul had made president he would have been assassinated byt his own people, just like they did with the Kennedys.

  172. Without any doubt John – suggest ‘Family of Secrets’ by Russ Baker for the inside track on America’s invisible government. Pure fact – more collusion than conspiracy.

  173. Guano,
    …It is not sufficient to believe in the Oneness of Allah and follow the ways that differ from His prophet SAW…
    -Didn’t the Prophet advise muslims against keeping dogs as pets?

    …The Jews believe in the Oneness of Allah…
    -No, they don’t, otherwise they would become muslims.

    …How can the Muslim Brotherhood or my local mosque work politically with the CIA or war-criminal M.P.s pretending to promote the interests of Islam when they simultaneously have to bow to the pressure of their patrons…

    -if they did bow to the pressure you wouldn’t see the military council still in power in Egypt, and one of former Mubarek’s communists running for presidency now.

    -Islam is a whole doctrine, you can not take the politics from Islam, or the jurisprudence from it and leave it to be just a system of worship. Islam is a system of life for muslims, from birth to death. It regulates social, economic, legal, political, military, family and many other aspects of life in one system where everyone (with certain knowledge gained in family surroundings and schools). That’s why enemies of Islam don’t like it, because it offers a complete system of conscious obey to the rules not ordained by humans.
    I completely agree with you in terms of that different sects and hizbs have been detrimental to Islam. Again, appearance of those sects once again proves prophecy of Muhammad SAW who informed muslims of such sects and warned against diverting from his sunnah.

    My father used to tell me stories about brutality of Chengiskhan. Once he told me that before invading a certain area in muslim lands, Chengiskhan would send his spies to check if there were many mosques. If his spy comes back with information that there is only one mosque for big areas Chengis wouldn’t dare to attack this place because of unity of people living in those areas, if more than one mosques were there he would easily invade them. At the time of Chengiskhan spread of sufism and naqshbandiya was so swift that people actually became idol worshippers.

    Meant no offence in above, ahi.

  174. Mccartney sang a strangely dark and fitting tune for her maj at the royal do:
    `When you were young and your heart was an open book you used to say live and let live -you know you did- but if this ever changing world in which we live in, makes you give in and cry, say live and Let DIE! What does it matter to you if youve got a job to do you got to do it well you got to give the other fella Hell…`
    Also, Rolf’s rendition of three little boys was painfully interrupted and cut short to the next act. For timekeeping or unwanted sentiments of the tragic war song?
    Too easy to be paranoid maybe.

  175. You were looking forward to retirement (one day), think again

  176. Roderick Russell

    4 Jun, 2012 - 11:53 pm

    I notice a few comments on the Jubillee. From a Canadian perspective it seems to me that Canadians have been somewhat ambivalent on the Jubilee celebrations, though one does admire the extent of the UK’s Royal advertising campaign. Here is what one of Canada’s major (Conservative) Newspapers, The National Post, said on the subject:

    “Britain’s royal hyperbole elevates banal to new heights”

  177. This is excerpted from an RT article

    “The FBI is apparently collecting evidence to indict Julian Assange before a grand jury. Sweden must not be the final destination of the designed extradition,” sources close to the WikiLeaks and Julian Assange told RT.
    The Cypherpunks episode of The Julian Assange Show has not even premiered on RT, but a pot of trouble is already boiling and Jeremy Zimmerman, a co-founder of cyber freedoms group La Quadrature du Net, has got a taste of it.
    Jeremy Zimmerman was detained on his way from the US to France after filming the episode of Assange’s show, during which he was interviewed with two other Cypherpunks movement activists.
    Zimmerman was grabbed by “self-identified FBI agents,” reports the WikiLeaks whistleblowing website. After that he spent several hours in quite another sort of the interview. The officers asked him about various details regarding Julian Assange. When he asked about his rights, the cyber activist was threatened with arrest and imprisonment.
    “We have confirmed US authorities have this week detained and interrogated multiple Europeans about Assange,” reads the WikiLeaks Tweet.
    Smari McCarthy, a co-founder and board member of the Icelandic Digital Freedoms Society, has also been stopped while entering the US, the source adds. McCarthy was approached by three US officials in Washington DC, and asked to become an informer.
    At the moment McCarthy’s whereabouts are unknown, though he maintains communication with the Icelandic MP Birgitta Jonsdottir.
    In earlier incidents, Nabeel Rajab, a Bahraini human rights activist, was beaten up at Bahrain’s international airport on his return from Lebanon in April. Then he was detained for half a day.
    The Bahraini authorities have not commented on the reasons behind the arrest, but it took place exactly after Rajab Episode 4 of The Julian Assange Show. In the episode, Rajab said that on the same day he announced on his Twitter account that he was going to appear on RT his house was surrounded by almost 100 policemen armed with machine guns – but luckily he was not there at the time.
    Fears are high these are not random incidents, but that evidence against Julian Assange is already being collected in the US. American senators and top officials have repeatedly accused the scandal-stirring whistleblower of espionage and terrorism, some even saying he should be tried by a court martial and sentenced to death.
    Following the UK Supreme Court ruling last week that Assange should be extradited to Sweden, where he is to be interviewed about sex crime allegations, the concern is that the Scandinavian country will not be his final destination and that he will then be extradited to the US, where he might well face indictment before a grand jury.

    Assange has no more chance of a fair trial in the United States than Jose Padilla had. Actually less because Padilla was a citizen and the Supreme Court in his day was rather less clearly committed to the jurisprudence of the Nazis.
    The bottom line for the, so called, Supreme Court ought to be that the Swedish government is clearly implicated in rendition to the United States. Whether the Swedish legal system would protect Assange’s rights is not the real question: the government, which is formed of precisely those forces in Swedish society that gave the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo nightmares, sees itself as an agent of the US Empire.

  178. The above post ought to have made clear that the excerpt from the RT article ends before the penultimate paragraph. The last two paragraphs are mine:
    [Mod: blockquote tags inserted]

  179. Nothing new I suppose, better get used to it.

  180. Hehe Roderick. Yes the miserable rain left not a redeeming vista. The total dullness of it! but even that is somehow complemented by the mystical dullness of her majesties blank gaze, stating simply, internaly, iamqueen iamqueen iamqueen iamqueen iamqueen…

  181. Lennon/McCartney?
    MK-Ultra and Tavistock Institute more likely.
    Or else.
    Poor John didn’t realise the stakes in time.

  182. Roderick – That piece is more of a critique of the broadcasters’ output, which has been dire, than of the monarchy itself. Both the Telegraph and the Independent printed almost identical pieces on the dumbed down BBC and Sky reporting. We have just been told on Sky News by a reporter visiting barracks that the royal family has strong links to the military. Wow! Really?
    This is the last of four days of the propaganda which has been unbearable. Now we have to brace ourselves for the continuing progress of the FLAME and then weeks’ more output from Stratford.
    We learn from the Guardian that unemployed people were bussed in to steward the pageant and told to sleep under London Bridge. That just about sums up the current underlying cruelty of this state. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/04/jubilee-pageant-unemployed
    A urologist was called in by Sky to explain the intricacies of the prince’s waterworks and the likely prognosis. Another specialist has probably been on the BBC.

    The crowds though are loving it. They seem to be clocking up attendances at jubilees, silver, gold and diamond now. They just adore looking back and living in the past. P Charles’ tribute to his mama included the words -you make us proud to be British – at which a huge cheer came forth.
    Crab – Mostly all of the songs from the old has-beens were inappropriate apart from Dame Shirley Bassey’s Diamonds are Forever. HM drips with them. Some of the performances were cringeworthy – more celeb than talent.
    PS Cameron and Beardie were in the royal box. Some mistake surely. Beardie was seen attempting to sing along to a Beatles number bit didn’t know the words. McCartney is more at home giving concerts in Tel Aviv btw.

  183. 15 more killed by way of the deck of cards that Obama flicks through to select his target, very much like the Bush/Cheney system in Iraq when the targets were given ranks from a deck of cards. http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/31/obama-at-large/
    5 June 2012

    US drone attack ‘targeted al-Qaeda deputy’
    Libi is reportedly in charge of day-to-day operations in Pakistan’s tribal areas
    Related Stories
    Is Obama’s drone doctrine counter-productive?
    US drone ‘kills four’ in Pakistan
    White House explains drone policy
    A US drone strike on Monday in Pakistan targeted al-Qaeda’s second-in-command Abu Yahya al-Libi, US officials say. They say it is still unclear whether he was among those killed in the strike on a suspected militant compound in North Waziristan, near the Afghan border.
    Two missiles by the unmanned aircraft killed 15 people, Pakistani officials say.
    Pakistan’s foreign ministry strongly condemned the strike, calling it “illegal”, Reuters news agency reports.

  184. Weird seeing the same media people who are telling the country that Mr Assad is very very evil, and base all this on information provided by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Observatory_for_Human_Rights which is run out of one man’s Coventry bedroom (and said man is a regular attendee to Whitehall meetings with closet-boy Hague) and then telling us about the ‘wave of gratitude and love’ carrying the Queen (major bank and arms industry share-holder) down the Thames, or even telling us of the ‘wonderful atmosphere’ aboard a rowing boat, bobbing about on the river whilst being lashed in the face by torrential rain.

    BTW the thing was a farce, hardly any spectators along the river and I have seen only one street party in all of central London. There is no ‘love’, ‘gratitude’, or ‘affection’ for the billionaire parasites, it’s all media hype.

  185. A little light – Via Twitter John McManus BBC World Service reporter Tweets: Christianity Uncut members protesting outside St Paul’s – say ancient biblical meaning of Jubilee = forgiveness of debts, social justice.

    Christians to reject monarchy and celebrate justice at republican protests The following news release was issued today (01.06.12):


    A group of Christians will join republican protests this weekend to call for a ‘real jubilee’ that celebrates justice, peace and the equality of all people as created in the image of God. They believe that this reflects the original, biblical meaning of jubilee rather than a celebration devoted to monarchy and military might.
    The group will be part of a major anti-monarchy demonstration on Sunday (3 June), which will include people of many religions and of none.
    Christianity Uncut, whose supporters include clergy, theologians and writers, pointed out that ‘jubilee’ is a biblical idea that was originally about a time of justice, when slaves were freed, debts cancelled and equal relationships restored. At a time of cuts and huge gaps between rich and poor, they suggest that this is the jubilee our society really needs.

  186. The companion to the Queen this morning is Lady Farnham, widow of 12th Baron. He was a
    master Freemason, and a merchant banker. Enough said.
    Q How does Wikipedia get updated so quickly, almost as it happened? viz ‘Lady Farnham rode alongside the Queen on the way to the Diamond Jubilee service on 5 June 2012 in the absence (through illness) of the Duke of Edinburgh.’

  187. Blackman
    Yes. I was talking to respected contributor, former UK military, dog-owner and total rebel Mark Golding. The sects reduce the agenda of Islam to a shadow of real life and make the issues small-hearted instead of big-hearted. They serve the enemies of Islam by doing so and they take their worldly rewards from them.
    How does the big imam swing 4 wives on social security in a high profile position? This is almost Nigerian level of fraud. The sects regurgitate just enough anti-imperial racism to con the normal Muslim into thinking that they are their political representatives, while in fact they narrow the context of Islam down to a mental straightjacket. They use the Western slogan of safety and security to spy on the Muslims through their personal I.T. devices, and in so doing cross the boundaries permitted by Islam for spying, for safety and security, into the realm of snooping and suspicion, which is very, very haram. With friends like these, who needs enemies.

    Also the sects are united with eachother in the acceptability of these haram practises. Each one vying with the other over the promiscuity of their unlawful control over the Muslims private lives. It has become an accepted concept among the leaders of the sects that the ability to spy on free individuals, automatically means that those Muslims are under their control/ Sultan. Wallahi, keeping dogs is a small sin compared to what is now practised in political Islam. Of course politics is part of Islam, same as dogs have a role in Islam. But the sects have twisted all the politics up, and the enemies of Islam know only too well the small price/ thamanan qaleelah, the bastards will sell themselves for. Bombs rain from the sky on Libya while AlQaida hobnobs with UK special forces. Fuck the whole lot of them I say. La’natalluh ‘alaihim kulluhum. The leaders of the sects of political Islam love to rub their beards with the perfume of pig slurry from the CIA and UK prime ministers.

    It isn’t just me who says that the Muslim Brotherhood is under the control of the enemies of Islam. Watch events unfolding in Tahrir Square as the people of Egypt reject the crap which has been put out for them by these democratic elections. There is no difference to choose between Muslim Brotherhood and Mubarak’s old guard. Given the choice, I would vote for the latter every day.

  188. The obituary of the husband of the lady in waiting to the queen. See how freemasonry links to banking and the monarchy. Same old same old Eton, but then Harvard not Oxbridge.
    Interesting remark from him about chainsaws. Did he see himself performing a Chainsaw Massacre?

  189. You blame the sects, Guano, and I am sure you are right up to a point. Is a Muslim a Muslim’s brother any more? Another reason why the answer tends to be “no” is, of course, intentional subversion by the usual suspects. I don’t remember this degree of division, even along the Sunni/Shi’a fault line, being present in the 90’s. The West/Israel has done all it can to divide and conquer, based on the (false, in Iraq) premiss that it could buy allegiance from the subordinate population by “liberating” it. Shi’as and Sunnis are killing each other in a now-divided Baghdad, and the Shi’a are looking East, not West. We are on the verge of supporting the old Sunni Ba’athists in Iraq again, while howling for the blood of Shi’a Ba’athists in Syria. I don’t think you can blame the 12th Imam for that…
    Re. The Muslim Brotherhood; NO party gaining power in Egypt would rationally invite the loss of US aid – on a similar scale to that given to Israel – with the country in its present condition. Whoever takes charge HAS to play nice with the Yanks, and that’s not a religious or even a political issue. It’s a vital economic one.
    But your point is well taken, and thank you.

  190. You’re right Komodo. Divide and rule has always been a facet of politics, even before Machiavelli wrote ‘The Prince’. It was not long ago that the Soviet Union was the sworn enemy of allied western states. It was an ideological war. The war against Islam is so blatant and because Islamic countries have inferior weapons the brave heroes of the west are happy to test out their superior weapons on harmless civilians. But there was a time when China was the most developed country in the world. And that time is returning. Hopefully wisdom will prevail – but knowing human nature it is doubtful.

  191. Komodo
    US aid to Pakistan has created a slush fund for the military to buy-up, bully, torture their way into owning most of the land. The same is true in Egypt. US dollars simply serve to impoverish the people and enrich the military. It is a mechanism for disenfranchising Muslims and it is just about to explode in the US’s face. By the time the coalition of idiots leave Afghanistan and two years of state terror from the Muslim Brotherhood, there will be an explosive volcano of frustration in the Muslim world.
    Just so you know. Chief of those whose rags and limbs will be hanging off the telegraph poles will be the political Islamists who gave Pakistan 13 years of daily massacres and 2 years of Stalinist terror in North Africa. There is going to be a 2008 moment when the people realised that the bankers had bankrupted us all, when the Muslim people also see that their so-called leaders have sold us down the river to fill their pockets with US gold.

  192. I am slightly more optimistic than you, I thimk, Guano. I’m thinking that Turkey’s example is the one to be hoped Egypt will follow, and this is not impossible. Having finally pushed the military into the background while retaining to some extent Kemal’s nationalistic ideals as a common cause, Turkey has faced and overcome a financial crisis which would have collapsed most Western countries (if you had foreign currency there in the late 90’s you were checking the exchange rate twice a day as the lira spiralled out of control), built an export market, raised its standard of living appreciably and even disengaged from its de facto alliance with Israel. You might characterise its Islam as lax, at least in the west, but it is far from moribund; and not afflicted by sectarian wars. Here, of course, the Naqshbandis were removed early from the state’s hierarchy – the ensuing secular governments tended to moderate religious expression and keep it out of politics.
    It’s a possible future, I think.

  193. Saddam Hussain was Kurdish, lived in Sulaiymaniah for a time and had no reason to make genocide on the Kurdish people except for the work of a limited number of double and treble agents who made it their job to annoy him by pretending to make alliances with his enemies. That is what is going on in Syria now, dictator baiting.
    These double agents handed over the millions of Kurdish victims to Saddam, and put their puss and poison into Saddam’s mind at the same time. These people regard themselves as the heroes of Kurdistan because they hardened their hearts against the deaths of millions by convincing themselves as with the Taliban that they were not proper Muslims. Their only skill is duplicity.
    Kaida shaytana thaeefa. The devil’s plan is weak. They remind me of the neanderthal son of Adam who killed his brother because of his own shortcomings.
    The double agent mind is unable to find anything very attractive inside their own selfish nature, so they project their own hardness and cruelty onto ever one else around them. Having convinced themselves that everyone else is worthy of punishment, they work single-mindedly to increase the chance of punishment raining down. They use their double-dealings to anticipate the timing of the onslaught of dictator rage and skip over the border.
    The first time I mentioned these sick people on this blog, about seven years ago, someone read what I had said and asked the question to me, how did I think that these double-dealers had survived the Saddam years without being caught. The answer lies in the depth of their disease. The more people they betray, the greater the need to project their disgust with themselves onto others. Until, almost anyone who is practising Islam with a clean and simple heart, becomes a target of their tormenting.
    War criminal M.P.s and Zionists become targets of their genuine admiration, because they provide camouflage for their own malice.
    This country has had a tough introduction to Islam. Long dispossessed Asians behaved badly and attracted racism. They fought racism with guile. Now the grand=children have emerged from two generations of mixed, comprehensive school education, flirting in their jobs and eyeing up the talent with the rest of them. The West has converted them into their own system and a few angry young men shorten their trousers and scowl.
    In the Middle-East everyone is tired of the long-drawn out war with the dictators and the long, drawn-out killing caused by the madmen who bait them like jackals. Syria wants peace, but the jackals are not going to leave Assad and the Syrian people alone. What would you do if you were told you could get rid of the UK political system by civil war and a sharp guillotine?
    Would you sacrifice your life to be rid of this corpse of corruption called parliament and the Queen? I would love to stick the heads of all the toffs and toffesses, priests and priestesses of England on spikes on traffic cones until I ran out of motorway to put them on.
    Ain’t going to happen, but in Syria it is, and I can’t make up my mind whether to be happy or sad for them.

  194. ‘David Cameron & Tory Health Minister Anne Milton have both outlined moral judgements are to be introduced into the way NHS care is provided. Key to that criteria will be what I call the morality test.’

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