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In nearly 13 years, the French appear to have come to little understanding of why these events unfolded.
Rather, they publicly have no grasp.
So, are we to assume, that actors within the French State do have good knowledge of what transpired?
If these actors are cognisant but failing to share those informations with their public, why would that be?
Do not expect any common sense out of the French State for the rest of Macron’s term.
France is going to hell in a hand cart.
France borrows a lot more money than their GDP.
Prime minister of France has just signed his own end of career note, he will be leaving stage left – soon.
Financial collapse is hurtling towards them.
Almost certainly political chaos, is coming, this Autumn.
@michael norton
Further to the question:- Why did it happen here? (i.e. at le Martinet)
Another answer could be that that was where SM would be exhausted and vulnerable.
It was the ‘furthest point’ of his overall route and crucially the top of the only major climb in his journey. SM had a good grimp to get there.
The location has other advantages but this may have factored into the killer’s thinking.
Good In Parts,
well thought through.
I had not twigged that aspect.
Indeed, even an extraordinarily fit Sylvain, would be tired at the top of that climb, at the speed he took it.
He might have even taken a little rest, before shooting back down the combe.
So, if you prime target was S.M. this would be, when he would be the most vulnerable.
Of course, we actually know very little.
It has been said that the only local person, Sylvain, took the first bullet.
It has also been said he took more bullets than anyone else.
They cremated him real fast, too.
If he was the only intended target, using a nearly 100 year old Luger, might have suggested a blood feud.
However, why involve another family?
Let us “run” this story as if it had been more simple.
Same date – September 28, 2012.
Same remote venue, Le Martinet, parking spot, up the combe.
Only one victim.
Savoyard,
French cyclist Sylvain Mollier, 45.
Killed by multiple shots, with an almost one hundred year old Swiss made Luger.
Do we think that The French Authorities might have cleared up this single killing?
Perhaps if years earlier, the French had not been so blinded by wanting the problem to emanate from England, if they had focused on their local man, the more or less local weapon, the local history of this part of Europe, they could have honed in on the most likely, probably, local killer?
@michael norton
Yes, a single, Savoyard, victim would have made things a lot cleaner.
Having said that, removing the SAH party from the equation would still leave the cryptic LMC (who probably would still not have come forward) plus the whole ONF crew mess. So the investigation would still have to unpick the X5 and the bogus GPA helmet and the reversed timings etc.
If they hadn’t closed the case within a year, I think it would have become a moribund cold case. Particularly if a wall of silence had been built.
Hello Boys!
How have you all been after all these years? We have to acknowledge that the investigators are working hard to try to find the solution. From my point of view, this revelation is just as interesting and important as the matters concerning Patrice Menegaldo or the motorcyclist.
Coincidences do exist, but this one really goes a long way.
“Finally, another troubling fact: the French gendarmes established that a Danish tourist was staying less than 10 km from the motorway rest area where that Belgian father was killed in July 2011, and that this same tourist had rented a spot at the campsite near Annecy, where the Al-Hilli family had set up their caravan in September 2012. He left on the very day of the massacre.”
@Bacchus
Good to see you dropping in again!
You might want to read-in this thread to see where we are now. A lot more detail has been revealed, but not much has really been resolved..
Here is a very recent (and slightly strange) article from Le Dauphine Libere
“Is the red Luger P06-29 debris found at the crime scene a magazine base or a stock plate? A central question to guide the investigation.” (‘stock plate’ better translates as ‘grip plate’)
https://www.ledauphine.com/faits-divers-justice/2025/09/04/c-est-une-arme-tres-fiable-mais-qui-peut-s-enrayer-facilement-13-ans-apres-la-tuerie-de-chevaline-autopsie-de-l-arme-au-coeur-de-l-enigme
Also see :-
https://www.ledauphine.com/videos/13-ans-apres-la-tuerie-de-chevaline-l-arme-du-crime-au-coeur-de-l-affaire-30kxsz3
Sylvain Mollier was quite well known by many in his community.
He was super fit.
He was a cyclist.
He comes from a larger Savoyard family, some of whom were involved in the French world of Spies.
He has a sister who was a long term girlfriend of Patrice Menegaldo.
He had a moderately complicated family life, that upset some people, including one of his work collegues.
Sylvain worked in the Nuclear Industry.
He had most likely been in an elite military group.
His family were steeped in the secrecy of Savoyard resistance to the Nazi Hoardes, that overan this part of France.
He was living with a lady, her uncle was an important politician, who had a complicated life.
This uncle was a part owner in the chemist shop.
The chemist shop from which she drew her living and status in their community.
This uncle was licensed to carry a shooter.
I think there was a connection / business between this uncle and Sylvain Mollier.
At a minimum, I suggest this uncle was in agreement of Sylvain Mollier living with and protecting his relative. Also the chemist business he had a stake in.
This uncle was the brother of Claire’s mother.
It would seem the father of Claire did not like or approve of Sylvain but the man with the clout and the money was the maternal uncle.
I suggest, in some way Sylvain was doing the bidding of the uncle of Claire, against the wishes of the father of Claire.
Their child would be the great nephew of the politician.
Where the old chemist shop was at 67 Rue Joseph Martin, Grignon, Albertville, Savoie,
with the Sapeurs-Pompiers Grand Arc, in the yard at the rear, is a new steel gate system.
Very secure looking, I wonder what they are worried about?
Pharmacie Schutz Morange
Where the old chemist shop was at 67 Rue Joseph Martin, Grignon, Albertville, Savoie,
with the Sapeurs-Pompiers Grand Arc, in the yard at the rear, is a new steel gate system.
Very secure looking, I wonder what they are worried about?
This information seems to suggest that the Grignon chemist shop, shut up shop for the last time in May 2025 ?
https://annuaire-entreprises.data.gouv.fr/etablissement/53324003200029
Date de création de la société
28/06/2011
Date de création de l’établissement
31/10/2013
Date de fermeture
20/05/2025
The uncle is Pierre Morange
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Morange
He was at one time co-owner of the chemist shop
address was number 73
Quote from a previous post:-
“Is the red Luger P06-29 debris found at the crime scene a magazine base or a stock plate? A central question to guide the investigation.”
Is this just poor reporting or, after thirteen years, is there really still doubt about the origin of the fragments found?
If the morceau recovered were from the small section of grip found on some magazine bases then that could decouple the dating information source from the actual weapon. After all one could insert an old magazine into a newer gun.
Original quote:-
“Le débris rouge de Luger P06-29 retrouvé sur la scène de crime est-il celui d’une base de chargeur ou d’une plaquette de la crosse ? Une question centrale pour orienter les investigations.”
Thinking about it, it would make more sense to use a newer magazine in an old gun given that the magazine springs do not age well.
So could the gun actually be a P06? It strikes me as unlikely, mais…
Or was the gun a bitzer?
Good In Parts, I very likely understand much less about the gun and the “stories” that we have been spun, than you do.
I can understand that DNA should be recoverable from any fragment left at of near the scene.
Eske Willerslev put in place his working theory of environmental DNA a few years ago.
This science is now available but it was not available at the time of The Alps Massacre.
If the killer had urinated and that could have been detected, at that time, an expert in environmental DNA should have been able to get a “message” which might have secured the identity of the perp.
But that perp. would have had to of been on a database, that was retrievable by the French Authorities, or a suspect that was arrested and DNA taken from.
@michael norton
Well, I don’t think that the gendarmes have done environmental dna analysis on the crime scene per se however they did analyse all the cigarette butts (and packaging) found at the crime scene. They did actually get some hits on their database, including a soldier. This guy turned out to have been at le Martinet because apparently there was a military exercise up in the mountains and the carpark was the assembly point from which it started. This exercise took place roughly a couple of weeks before the murders.
This means that a significant number of military types were familiar with le Martinet. Which raises the question, why are they so focussed on Swiss special forces? Perhaps they should dna check all the participants in the exercise and assess their combat handgunnery skills.
This was probably all outside of their abilities.
However, they have had shells and shell casings.
They have had fragments of grip.
At the time in 2012, the French most probably would have been able to recover DNA from those bits of evidence.
They could disprove L.M.C. They could disprove W.B.M. they could and probably did disprove a lot of suspects.
It is possible that there was DNA on the cycle of Sylvain, on the car of al-Hilli.
On fragments of clothing, say of the girl he held and bashed.
I would say the police have done a very poor job.
So, have the French Authorities yet claimed they have good DNA recovered from the gun fragments, the bullets or the bullet cases?
More about an upcoming dramatization called “The Annecy Murders”, a six-part psychological thriller inspired by the infamous Chevaline killings.
https://www.televisual.com/news/carrousel-sunnymarch-landscape-team-for-annecy-murders/