The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
I founf a le dauphine pdf with a picture of roger mollier. This is a nationalist celebration for 3 ugine people who served in the first french army 1944/45.
He is there being honoured by the community together with a Mr Brun who is as old as him. I shall post the pdf tomorrow.
Also I have found roger mollier signing an anti gay marriage petition.
He looks like to be a french nationalist. There are so many molliers politically active on the right wing side in that french departement.
James
20 Nov, 2012 – 10:08 pm think you mite have lost me a bit again but insofar as we can rely on reports (?!) the time line for the 5th (those fives!)is as follows:
2.30 pm Both Mollier and Martin set off on their “bike-ride”
2.40 pm (About) The Al Hilli’s pass through Chevaline seen by four ppl
2.50 pm (About) Al Hilli’s arrive at lay-by
3.10 – 3.15 pm (About) Martin starts cycle climb up Combe d’Ire
3.20 – 3.25 pm (About) Mollier overtakes Martin on Combe d’Ire
3.20 (About) Green 4×4 overtakes Martin and a few minutes later Mollier.
3.30 pm (About) Gunfire (multiple shots) are heard by three ppl therefore Mollier must have arrived at lay-by by this time. This requires him to start up the Combe by 3 pm which in turn if he overtook Martin was ahead of him and must have started earlier than he said as listed here.
3.35 – 3.40 pm (About) Green 4×4 and motor bike pass Martin on their way back down the Combe.
3.40 pm – 3.45 pm Martin arrives at scene.
3.48 pm Somebody (not Martin) ring emergency services
4.00 pm Martin cycles off down Combe d’Ire in search of help
4 – 4.10 pm (About) Meets Didierjean and two female companions. At about the same time white Peugeot 306 is witnessed speeding dangerously away from Combe.
4.10 – 4.30 Didierjean manages to place emergency call. (We don’t know the exact time of this call)
4 – 4.10 Martin and Didierjean return to scene
4.10 – 4.20 Fire vehicles arrive, followed by doctor and police.
4.20 – 30 Didierjean leaves in car and Martin on bike not speaking to Police.
? First reports by press
8.0 pm Grenoble forensics arrive
11 pm (about) Paris team arrive
12 mn Zeena is found.
Next day Mid morning(?) the bodies, car and bicycle are removed.
The rest (as they say) is history.
James
20 Nov, 2012 – 10:20 pm the order not to interfere must have been there long before the Grenoble team arrived. Neither Fire rescue or doctor or police attempted to open car door(s) and check occupants for vital signs. The assumption throughout was that all were dead and “don’t touch”. This it should be noted is contrary to standard practise. Checking for vital signs always takes precedence over disturbing the crime scene.
Nice post Oliphant..they are all nice people..the neighbors next door.is what we hear all time until something happen, like Claude Ranier.Inspector too say Im shocked Im shocked this can happen in Annece.
secral high profile murder unsolved, reports in UK the number of contract killings is far greater than was thought..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Douc%C3%A9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Francisci
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9rard_Lebovici
Interesting the use of badges reported..which are a good tool to make prey feel at ease..
like sitting at dentists chair..we surrender ourselves..even if pain comes.
It is tempting to follow the path of ritual killers or cults..there are patterns…but I don’t know really.
@NR..I agree on artifacts..in imagery..but I can’t discount that sometimes information deliberately embeed in imagery..I am familiar with Nvidias card glitches..so I recognize them when I see. The tendency to aggregate random pixels is natural as in shapes in clouds.
I tell you what I see here.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc191/sys_config/ScreenHunter_05Nov201908.gif
Like Annecy I see a Forrest Row of Trees.
Like Annecy..I see a road and a bend
Licke Annecy I see people from past waiting
Like Annecy.
I see Saad’s Destiny waiting for him.
I am sorry I cannot see the Fatima on grilled cheese.:D
Your point well taken on cpu..gamers drive development and development drives gamers into its games.
On this..There is no way The PTB could not know, and more..That they could not have saved him.
Even if Saad..had counter measures.. it would on their screen..look like a big hole..where there should be something flowing….then they would know. If he stopped using computers..that would be a big hole too.
http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-whistleblower-william-binney-explains-nsa-surveillance-2012-8
Unforunately Millaud cannot fill the holes he left behind for us. Its is good he stopped digging….because that is the first step to getting out of hole.
Sys
Tim
Agree with that. Check for signs of life.
That depends though on how badly they are injured.
Head shots (the police say) would leave quite some damage.
That is if we assume that they were killed of course.
Say they were.
Say the left hand side passenger fell to the right and bled there.
What would they look like ? I guess pretty well “dead”.
Maybe the police at the scene made a judgement call.
Or maybe they checked for a pulse.
Either way the four tear old wasn’t found.
The “news” was rolling….and now they have to explain that child.
Sys…
Do you take drugs ?
Tim
Regard time line…we don’t “know” anything until the “approx” time of the shooting.
You assume that WBM is telling the truth.
The reporter I speak of arrived at 6.30pm.
She recalls the forensics arriving at 8.00pm.
The child is said to be found at Midnight.
If this is true…explain the gap (time) from 8pm (Grenoble forensics arriving) and Midnight (the time the 4 yr old is said to be found) ?
That’s 4 hours.
True Tim..a surreal landscape is being brushed as we speak.
The fives happen so much on adresss and things..I feel almost cursed to have five fingers..we may need a palm reader in here..maybe answers are in the stars.
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hahaha..venus..love..mars..war..mercury..flight..earth…what he returned to..
Tim
Also…your timeline !
Martin is overtaken by green 4×4 ???? When did you read that ???
Martin said, he saw a 4×4 pass him going down the hill.
Not going up the hill.
The time of the massacre comes ONLY from the time Martin arrived at the scene…supported ONLY by the call made by P.D.
The builder said the car passed earlier.
The ploice say that pictures put the family arriving later.
But the police lied about the Paris Team (forensics)
The helicopters role.
And the death of the eldest girl.
Sys
Seriously, are you on drugs ???
You mentioned Fatima. Is that the child that the desert dude was said “not” to have shagged…but married later on ????
Absolutely not James….just leaving the beaten path. We already know they violated what would be normally expected as in most homicides, and this is not the first.
review past footages of newsreals and see the behavior of of everyone on the camera..from news men.gendarme to footage of victims even blood….this has been heavily censured..imo staged..lots of these on Youtube..this is very plastic.
Sys
I dont think staged. I think someone hit the “panic” button.
Hence the “story” does not fit.
the French started to follow their SOP. Then “something” happened.
Or rather someone said “wait”.
And that’s the point.
Then it same as stage..The point at this point..is anyones guess..lets call intelliguess….The SOP does not appear to be SOP, other than the Clamming up. The not posting of Iqbal and decedent while asking for public informmation that would be important in resolving identities, in a case they claim to be clueless. The Ahillis allegedly stopped at a nice house of flowers minutes before allegedly dying….I doubt they picked off the walls of the house….what looked like large ed flowers seen in vehicle, so they must have purchased and Not someone threw in car after dead ….meaning someone in town spoke to them. Not post the picture of family..when could have blurred or cropped out the children.is inexplicable to me. Investigation come first..sensitivities second..Its why they can hang on to a body for weeks if need be, but they are sensitive in the happy pictures dept. department..they didn’t need permission..the pictures true owners are dead so they say….no estate settlement needed..they are part of crime and needed to be aired….
Cadavers you can get at any university..If they had posted pictures of the dead women…
They are panicked..yes because something went wrong. Looks to me as only Saad and Mollier..maybe dead..Why they dont put picture..to get public sympathy and help. Just Saads picture….This ..have been beaten to death..makes clear they don’t want this solved…or anyone finding out what ” the something went wrong”was.
I have no doubt they getting more from us then we from them
You must forgive me..I don’t believe everything I read in the papers..I am no different than any of you.
” Bombs in the basement cannot have been caused by the planes, and reportage of them was suppressed soon after in the MSM. Another fact.”
These would be the “bombs” in the basement that exploded two hours before the towers collapsed from the top down? How did that work?
“Well, first of all the “wreckage” on the lawn isn’t even close to being correct. Eyewitnesses reported seeing something like a commuter jet at the Pentagon, not an airliner, and with no windows. Same at WTC (initially). As James said, the turn that the “aircraft” pulled off at the Pentagon would have been all but impossible for a commercial airliner never mind hitting it.”
Many witnesses described the aircraft as an American airlines jet. A lot of wreckage including engines and undercarriage parts which are large and heavy were found inside the Pentagon not to mention the flight recorders and remains of the passengers. How were these smuggled into place under the noses of several dozen witnesses? The turn made by the aircraft was well within it’s abilities, just not the way airliners are normally flown.
“Bringing down the WTC with explosives and the Thermite residue raises the question of why did they need to do that? Wouldn’t 2 planes into the top of the towers be enough?”
“Of course not. Plane impacts would never have brought down the twin towers, firstly because they were built to withstand exactly that impact (actually a 707 but the masses are similar), fully laden with fuel, and secondly because fire has never brought down a steel-framed skyscraper for the simple reason that kerosene and office fires don’t burn hot enough to weaken steel sufficiently.”
Yes they do. A normal domestic/office fire can easily reach 800 to 1,000 C sufficient to weaken steel by 90%. Sagging of the floor trusses under heat also allowed the supporting outer columns to bow, severely weakening their ability to resist compressive loads. The architect has admitted that he never accounted for an aircraft impact and a fire. The scenario envisaged was an accident similar to B25 that struck the Empire State in the 1940’s. An aircraft low on fuel, lost in low cloud, flying slowly and looking for somewhere to land.
“As proof, even towers that have burned for DAYS have stayed standing. And WTC itself had a serious fire many years before and survived unscathed. Yet on 9/11 somehow no less than THREE of them suddenly collapsed or exploded due solely to “fire”. Ho hum.”
All three buildings that collapsed on 9/11 suffered structural damage before the fire. Two from aircraft, one from falling debris that took out one corner; always a weak point. The WTC was not the first or only steel framed buildings to collapse as a result of fire. The previous fire at the WTC was not serious, it was mainly confined to one area on one floor but spread up a cable conduit, that’s all. In the conspiracy version this is used to give the impression that a raging inferno engulfed several floors!
“Thirdly the thermate residues speak for themselves (as do peaks in Caesium and Strontium in the residual dust). We do not need to figure out a motive for us to know that thermate was used – it is there in the evidence.”
Major constituents of thermate are iron oxide, aluminium and sulphur. Who would expect to find them in a steel framed building, clad in aluminium with acres of wall board partions? Caesium and Strontium occur naturally, the later is used in computer monitors and there must’ve been thousands of those in the WTC. Neither is used in thermate so what is the significance?
“Yet the MSM is the one that brands anyone who questions 9/11 as a silly “Truther” right alongside UFOers and those who claim the moon landings are fake.”
Hardly surprising really.
@ James 20 Nov, 2012 – 10:37 pm @ Ferret 20 Nov, 2012
“@ NR You have cut n’ pasted Ferret’s whole post…and then added “I’ll try to find the link I quoted” !!!!! That’s odd !”
I meant to say “I’ll try to find a link for what I quoted from memory.” It was in reference to me saying I remembered reading “somewhere” that it was standard police procedure in France to “freeze crime scenes” until forensics arrived, barring any living injured. I couldn’t find the exact quote in the press, but I see people commenting up above found similar statements.
I had suggested the reason for freezing crimes scenes might be that the police wanted to use a laser scan to later create a 3D reconstruction of the scene, and that they might not have many such scanners, bringing one from Paris. It makes sense in this case where they have a complicated crime scene outdoors and otherwise would need to make many measurements to each piece of evidence.
NR…
But therefore why not wait for the guys in Ecully, Lyon.
The INPS AND the ENFSI are there.
Don’t forget the team from Grenoble are already at the scene.
NR
Are you saying that the wait was for the police to recreate the scene in 3D ???
That’s why they waited ????
Tim, some commentary on your time line – a somewhat along the lines James suggested but my take:
How about we play a game and put a TBD next to WBM timeline, divide others into into assumption and OK so we accept just those times corroborated by others?
So here is the reformat:
2.30 pm Both Mollier (OK) and Martin (TBD) set off on their “bike-ride” – we only know about Mollier per Claire.
2.40 pm (About) The Al Hilli’s pass through Chevaline seen by four ppl – OK
2.50 pm (About) Al Hilli’s arrive at lay-by – Assumption
3.10 – 3.15 pm (About) Martin starts cycle climb up Combe d’Ire TBD
3.20 – 3.25 pm (About) Mollier overtakes Martin on Combe d’Ire TBD
3.20 (About) Green 4×4 overtakes Martin and a few minutes later Mollier.TBD
3.30 pm (About) Gunfire (multiple shots) are heard by three ppl therefore Mollier must have arrived at lay-by by this time. OK This requires him to start up the Combe by 3 pm which in turn if he overtook Martin was ahead of him and must have started earlier than he said as listed here.
3.35 – 3.40 pm (About) Green 4×4 and motor bike pass Martin on their way back down the Combe.TBD
3.40 pm – 3.45 pm Martin arrives at scene. TBD
3.48 pm Somebody (not Martin) ring emergency services OK
4.00 pm Martin cycles off down Combe d’Ire in search of help
4 – 4.10 pm (About) Meets Didierjean and two female companions. At about the same time white Peugeot 306 is witnessed speeding dangerously away from Combe. TBD
4.10 – 4.30 Didierjean manages to place emergency call. (We don’t know the exact time of this call) OK
4 – 4.10 Martin and Didierjean return to scene OK
4.10 – 4.20 Fire vehicles arrive, followed by doctor and police. OK
4.20 – 30 Didierjean leaves in car and Martin on bike not speaking to Police. OK
? First reports by press TBD
8.0 pm Grenoble forensics arrive OK
11 pm (about) Paris team arrive OK
12 mn Zeena is found. OK
Next day Mid morning(?) the bodies, car and bicycle are removed.
The rest (as they say) is history.
Kempe….
“The turn made by the aircraft was well within it’s abilities, just not the way airliners are normally flown”
Er…no it is not.
The turns that were presented as the turns that the aircraft made, are not possible in an aircraft of that size…
Add to that,IF the aircraft survived, how was the pilot coping with the “ground effect” as he flew along at the height it is claimed he was at ?
Marlin…
Then explain why did the Grenoble team arrive at 8pm …and the 4 year old child only recovered at Midnight ?
Can you explain the actions of that team for that 4 hour period ?
Now, let’s take out the times and events stated by WBM only, keep your assumptions based on backing up from time stated by others (not WBM) and here is what we have left (recast by me):
2.30 pm Mollier sets off on his “bike-ride” – we only know about Mollier per Claire.
2.40 pm (About) The Al Hilli’s pass through Chevaline – seen by four ppl
2.50 pm (About) Al Hilli’s arrive at lay-by – Assumption
3.00 – 3.10 pm (About) Mollier starts cycle climb up Combe d’Ire Assumption (back up from time of shots heard)
3.30 pm (About) Gunfire (multiple shots) are heard – by three ppl therefore Mollier must have arrived at lay-by by this time. OK (This requires him to start up the Combe by about 3 – 3:10 pm)
3.48 pm Somebody (not Martin) rings emergency services OK
4.00 pm Martin cycles off down Combe d’Ire in search of help assumption
4 – 4.10 pm (About) Meets Didierjean and two female companions.
4-4:10pm (about) white Peugeot 306 is witnessed speeding dangerously away from Combe. TBD
4:05 – 4.10pm Martin and Didierjean return to scene
4.10 – 4.20 Didierjean manages to place emergency call. assumption
4.10 – 4.20pm Fire vehicles arrive, followed by doctor and police.
4.20 – 4:30pm Didierjean leaves in car and Martin on bike not speaking to Police. OK
? First reports by press TBD
8.00 pm Grenoble forensics arrive
11 pm (about) Paris team arrive
12 am Zeena is found.
Next I would ask – what if we just take just this timeline (from the scant information we have) and work through the options for WBM, ignoring the story as he alone told it?
I see three possiblities:
1. WBM overtaken by Mollier as he said he was arriving at the scene of the crime at 3:40-3:45pm just as he said.
2. WBM was ahead of Mollier and is never overtaken, ie, he arrives at the scene of the crime first (which would mean he gets there BEFORE the shooting start, with Mollier showing up a short time later)
3. WBM starts a short time AFTER Mollier who, again, never overtakes him and stays ahead by about 10 minutes the whole time,
4. WBM and Mollier arrive at the Lay By at about the same time.
Now, the challenge is to poke holes in each of the three possibilities, based on everything we know, and can logically surmise, and see which ones are left standing and what they imply.
Possibility 1 has all the problems you have been pointing out – not enough time to do all the rearrangements. WBM could not have made the first call. How could he have not heard the shots if he was so close? Plus why did he then lie about the time he must have started up the Combe d’Ire? This possibility also raises the question that the target was really WBM and Mollier was indeed an innocent cyclist mistaken for the target simply because he arrived first and was perhaps lagged down by SAH who was only expecting a cyclist and knew nothing about the “shadow”.. Note that in this case WBM’s panic would be all too understandable and he may, in fact, having heard the shots, turned around, never making it to the lay By but knowing what was going to happen. In this case, he could actually have made the call at 3:48Pm himself being in panic and all (too bad we don’t know what was in the call or do we?)
Possibility 2 implies that WBM was part of the plot, possibly even (one of) the shooters or perhaps a witness. There is no obvious inconsistency with any of the other known items except his own story. But then it’s clear why he wouldn’t tell the (whole) truth.
Possibility 3 is not inconsistent with any other knowns but raises the question – why did WBM find it necessary to have Mollier overtake him? divert attention from the fact he was overshadowing him?
Possibility 4 is the most interesting – again nothing to rule it out – but it does open the possibility that the shooters got the wrong cyclist?
This is in no way complete, but I think it’s worth taking each possibility to some logical conclusion, and then start looking at that conclusion in light of the other known facts (or known knowns). The other interesting exercise would be to overlap each possibility with a particular scenario. For example, one could look at ferret’s extraction scenario and see which of the 4 possibilities matches it better?
OK, this is just an exercise in logic, I know. But there are some interesting informational matrices that can be gleamed even in the absence of most of the facts. I think the toughest part of such an exercise is to get on with it while putting aside the motives – at least for a while – because the “why” can sometimes interfere with the “what” . At least that’s my experience.
People’s thoughts would certainly be of interest – – in any case, may be it’s time to erect the scafolding even as we must continue to wait for the bricks (and getting mostly clouds o dust). I know that’s what Tim V – and others – have been trying to do just that and hope no one minds if I try to crash the party (usually just when the punch is all gone)?
Thank you Tim..Would You add time when the Embassy team arrived? one of which went to to hosp, I am sure the others to the site. and when EM arrived.I thought I read very log time ago..he was contacted by the BBC..and he was he was in bed at the time.
Sorry, it was FOUR possibilities (started with three but didn’t go back and fix). I can count because the catcha taught me how – honest.
James, that will be next on my list – I am still bifurcating my Four possibilities. Just seeing whether any of them shed a ray of light where there is nothing but darkness now. Tomorrow’s assignment perhaps?
@ Tim V 21 Nov, 2012 – 12:31 am
“8.0 pm Grenoble forensics arrive”
“11 pm (about) Paris team arrive”
“12 mn Zeena is found.”
That blows my theory of the laser scanner coming from Paris. Info said a scan takes two hours.
@ Sys 21 Nov, 2012 – 12:48 am
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc191/sys_config/ScreenHunter_05Nov201908.gif
“I am sorry I cannot see the Fatima on grilled cheese.:D”
I see, in the forest, from left to right, a large idol of Mickey Mouse; then Donald Duck, wearing an alpine hat and holding a shotgun; then Donald’s nephews Huey, Dewey and Louie; then a turkey, wings spread in surrender, knowing his fate. The figure at the far right I can’t make out, maybe one of the dogs, Goofy or Pluto, lying down exhausted after flushing the turkey from the shrubs. No Lenin, Stalin, Jesus or Fatima here.
So the story goes that Donald and family are ready to ritually sacrifice a turkey to The Great Mickey for Thanksgiving day. It fits with Mickey being the Genesis of the Disney empire.
[no drugs required either]
@ Sys 21 Nov, 2012 – 1:25 am
“True Tim..a surreal landscape is being brushed as we speak.
The fives happen so much on adresss and things..I feel almost cursed to have five fingers..we may need a palm reader in here..maybe answers are in the stars.”
ALHILLIUAE.COM
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44023.earth.orderbox-dns.com
44023.mars.orderbox-dns.com
44023.mercury.orderbox-dns.com
44023.venus.orderbox-dns.com
“hahaha..venus..love..mars..war..mercury..flight..earth…what he returned to..”
Princes Gate… Claygate … Stargate! That’s what the elites are doing. Building a Stargate to escape after they’ve messed the planet up good, and before the mob catches them. They needed the Marcoses’ and Saddam’s looted gold to buy the last parts – Mollier’s special Zirconium, some Polonium from Russia and SAH’s expertise to make it fit together tight like an AirBus galley.
@ James 21 Nov, 2012 – 3:18 am
@ NR “Are you saying that the wait was for the police to recreate the scene in 3D ??? That’s why they waited ????”
Yes, if they were certain of no live victims in car – heads damaged so severely there’s no possibility of life – then they might wait to do the 3D laser scan before the scene is further disrupted. Apparently it’s common now. I was guessing that if they wanted to do this, they waited for the team from Paris to arrive with the scanning equipment. I don’t know how common it is and if Grenoble or smaller departments would have it.
@Olifant
20 Nov, 2012 – 11:50 pm
Glad you found that link as I had also found it and posted it some while ago, either on here or on MZT, but hadn’t been able to find it afterwards. We really do need to find aware to convert all these links and data into some kind of searchable format!
So Mollier is a family name that is not so widespread in France generally but with greater concentrations in Corsica as well as Savoie.
And as MZT herself commented herself on my posting,those Corsican Molliers would surely be aware of ‘omerta’.
Another interesting fact I saw about Savoie was that after WWII it needed to expand it labour force, so imported immigrants from Italy and Algeria.So I wonder if the Savoie Molliers are indigenous, or were they also immigrants from Corsica?
And another thing about Savoie is that politically it would be fairly conservative and right wing, so Roger and Sylvain Mollier with their extreme left wing militant S&P (maybe even CPF) affiliations would make them very much a minority.
Mochyn
Sorry, but S&P are NOT left wing.
S&P is socialist, but NATIONALsocialist.
Due to our political spectrum they are right wing.
There are 2 right wing parties that have influence in France:
1. FN: le pen group. Sponsored by Russia/Putin
2. MNR: Metre group. Formerly connected to Le Pen but more militant.
Sponsored formerly/or still today? by Saddam Hussein and by the union for metal workers.
The mollier-pierret group with the other sylvain mollier supports FN.
The group with Christophe Mollier, Christian Mollier and Pierre Mollier from Grenoble are MNR members.
S&P is said to support MNR rather than FN.
@Bluebird
21 Nov, 2012 – 7:25 am
Good afternoon, BB, at least it is where I am hehe.
You are so wrong there .. but maybe you are absolutely right too, and that is part of the mystery of S&P.
As I have shown many times on here before there is no doubt that S&P73 purports to be a militant EXTREME LEFT organisation.
This is from their blog at http://solidariteprogres73.elunet.fr/index.php/category/Accueil-Presentation
‘VENDREDI 18 JANVIER 2008, 11:00
Communiqué
L’association « Solidarité et Progrès » réunie le 17 janvier 2008 avec les candidats pressentis à la constitution d’une liste de gauche aux élections municipales de mars 2008 à Ugine a confirmé son intention. Une liste rassemblant des militants de gauche, communistes, socialistes, écologistes, des personnes progressistes, issues du monde syndical ou associatif représentera la gauche uginoise dans ce scrutin. Elle sera conduite par Louis Bertrand, conseiller municipal, ancien maire de 1989 à 1995. Une charte fixant le socle commun des candidates et candidats a été adoptée. Elle précise leur volonté de faire barrage à la politique antisociale du gouvernement et de traduire les enjeux nationaux au niveau local. Elle définit les grandes options en matière de développement économique et social, d’écologie, de démarches citoyenne et démocratique. Elle se donne comme priorités le logement social, un urbanisme facteur de convivialité et de renouveau commercial, le maintien des services publics, un environnement de qualité. Des groupes de travail élaborent le programme et l’ordre de la liste qui seront communiqués dès leur validation.’
‘MARDI 8 JANVIER 2008, 10:10
Bienvenue et meilleurs voeux 2008
Depuis la réunion publique que nous avons tenue le 23 novembre dernier, notre association Solidarité et Progrès s’est engagée à constituer une liste de gauche aux Municipales 2008 à Ugine. Celle-ci se fera sur la base d’une alliance claire entre les partis de gauche de notre ville, en y associant des individualités progressistes, sans compromission avec la droite.’
Do you need me to translate?
Mochyn
Extreme right and extreme left are very close in that circle.
Even FN and MNR did collect communists for their national parties.
Was Saddam a communist? Was the Baath left wing? Of course not. They were nationalsocialists. They usually have support by unions and working class. That was the same in germany/austria in 1936.
Read about Cheminade. Everybody who has got some political understanding will put him into the far right. Of course he has socialist ideas. But add the prefix “national” and you will be correct about that.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Cheminade#mw-mf-search
@Bluebird
21 Nov, 2012 – 7:25 am
‘S&P is said to support MNR rather than FN.’
As wikipedia would say .. ‘by whom’!?