The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Strawberry – google says via Paris/Dijon 1044 km. In 11.5hrs.
I mean, 6 days is quite a long time for that route.
If EM found out it took them 6 days to arrive at their Campside, they must have had lots of halts – one reason more for not understanding that they didn’t gave out any pictures of the rest of the family, at least the 2 women sitting in the back of the BMW. There must be quite a lot of people within these 6 days who might have seen them, or part of them… strange. As if they don’t want to find that out.
My dictionary tells me “filibuster”- what a cute word !
… and limitation of damage for the tourist killing nutter….
Ferret
22 Nov, 2012 – 3:10 pm another load of tripe from french police. don’t they realise what FOOLS they are making of themseves and the french state?
I asked yesterday if somebody here knows, if EM himself had said, it was a Luger 7.65mm? Or was it one of the leaking details being withdrawn the next day?
Is the Luger 7.65 indeed a fact??
Ferret
22 Nov, 2012 – 3:22 p
@ http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/
“At around 4 p.m. that Wednesday, they came across the RAF man who was descending the road on his bike. He describes him as perturbed and in a panic. The RAF man tried to tell him and his two friends that he had come across bodies inside and outside a car. He spoke haltingly in French. The three could not make out whether he had tried to summons assistance on his mobile (cell phone) but there was no signal or whether he did not have a mobile phone.
The three went back up the road with the RAF man and having seen what there was to see, Philippe D. drove back down TO WHERE HE COULD GET A SIGNAL for his mobile. He then summoned assistance. WITHIN MINUTES the gendarmerie arrived.
I wish to add something about the gendarmerie: what it is for example.
In France we have a national police force: the police. We also have gendarmes.
The police fall under the Ministry of Interior. Gendarmes fall under the Ministry of Defense (Defence).Gendarmes, like soldiers, remain in uniform and live in a barrack and they hold military ranks like soldiers.They keep law and order in the countryside and in towns (communes) of fewer than 20,000 inhabitants.
It was therefore the local gendarmerie which replied to Philippe D’s telephone call.
Now this is odd: Normally the gendarmerie hands over an investigation to the police. In this case they would have handed the investigation over to the police of the nearest big town – Annecy or Grenoble or even Lyon (Lyons).
But in this case they did not
In other words, the case is being investigated by the Ministry of Defense and not the Ministry of Interior. Secrecy is thus ensured.”
NB As I have often repeated, if PD arrived “about 4 o clock” went up to the site, investigated the condition, walked back 50 yards to his car, drove down before getting a phone signal, neither he or WBM could be responsible for the 3.48 call or the arrival of the emergency services before they departed the combe.
@BB: UAVs will be controlled from Battle Creek:
http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kalamazoo_and_battle_creek/plan-for-battle-creek-base-to-get-drone-unit
Just a (may be stupid) idea:
Is it possible that they had never planned to go back to UK?
(or- SAH himself had decided without telling wife, children, mother-in-law)
I mean, they drove off without telling the school that the 2 girls won’t be there for the new term…. they took the gandmother on board… they had their iraqi passports on them (I guess, they had at least all an european passport – which would have been sufficient to travel just within the EU) ….. they did a quite long and arduous trip. If my back would be hurting – I wouldn’t do that kind of “holiday”.
You don’t do that just to be some days off, relaxing, recovering, do you???
It strikes me the cross bars ar the same but the shooting car has the remains of the thule luggage box rather than bicycle rack. We really need a Halfords contributor to confirm or otherwise. It’s cetainly a very significant issue. Was there a roof box at the time of the shooting and was it levered off and stolen?
sorry that one was for Straw44berry
22 Nov, 2012 – 3:44 pm
@James
22 Nov, 2012 – 3:29 pm
“talking to the French Police, that on that or their radio net they knew there had been some murderous activity going on and in spite of that very high risk, they went straight to the rescue scene”
I am convinced by now that the emergency services may have got a call or overheard radio transmission at 3.48 (it must have been about then for them to arrive when they did) but DEFINATELY NOT from a mobile phone call from either Martin or Didierjean.
That Maillaud repeats this lie well after the event proves 1) it is important that they dont let on where the information came from and 2) that if he lied about this central issue he could lie about anything
@ Straw44berry
23 Nov, 2012 – 3:07 pm You may be right but now imagine SAH trying to escape a gunman who has already shot Mollier several times from his location on the NEARSIDE of the car. Its quite feasible he would throw himself across the bonet which could accont for the slight inundation/marking there. The gunman now directs his fire at him – three shots – which hit the lower portion of the driver’s side windscreen, and then as he momentarily stands up to get into the opening car door, one shot at his head which instead pings the top central. If correct this would place the shooter at about 280 degrees to the car. If the gunman then made his way around the front of the car still pointing his weapon at Al Hilli it would explain his reverse maneuvre, as the gun man makes his way down the driver’s side to deliver the fatal shots.
Does anyone know where in Ontario Jill Kelley’s FBI friend Fred Humphries lived, and which school he attended? He knew French well enough to distinguish an Algerian accent.
@Tim V 23 Nov, 2012 – 5:55 pm
WHAT WE CAN BE SURE ABOUT
Yes to these. As SAH, on this scenario, gets to martinet between 2.40 and 3.10, presumably you have discounted the picture time stamp at Arnaud. Fair enough. Agreed. But sure of it??
NOT SO SURE ABOUT
* Green 4×4 plus motor bike passes WBM and SM on way up
* Green 4×4 plus motor bike passes WBM on the way back
seems to be heard as:
BM “last yr I took al my fmly up there,to that very car park, as a fmly.” (…how else??!!)
Intervwr “Now, on yr way up b4 u came across this scene, 2 vehicles passed u. Uve been able to give police a ltd descrptn. Talk me thru what u saw”
BM at 04.56 in clip “…recollection … of prbly a 4×4 coming past me, .. a large vehicle… again a motorbike at some point passed me going down and that’s really, those were the only noticeable things for anybody coming down before I reached the car park” ie at Martinet. What other car park can be inferred from this? he was going up. they were going down. agreed? altho it isn’t pukka phraeology…. So No passing on way back is spoken of here. (apart from earlier comment, at 03.00 in clip, about Pompiers etc)
* WBM set off at 2.30
* WBM up Combe d’Ire 3.15 – 3.45
Why did he give these times? ie (1) “leave at 2.30” (2) vehicles pass him, say half way up. At that time he’d “been out riding for about an hour and a half”.
In scenario as above (taken from Tim V) time taken = one hour to get half way up. (2.30 to 3.30) At most 70 min. (2.30 – 3.40) Not one and half.
Another scenario (goes up just after AlHilli who has just come from having pics in Arnaud) starts 3.25 – arr 3.45. in that case wd have been out for 65 mins.(2.30 to 3.35) At most 70. (2.30 – 3.40) Not an hour and half.
Any other earlier scenario (eg arriving before SAH, or at same time as etc) wd reduce the time out cycling.
So assuming he got there to see the dead bodies, and as per Tim V’s time above: Question: Why add the extra half hour? Is this OK for an observant person to do? He knew he left at 2.30. He could be expected to know he was half way up to layby when it was approx 3.30. So why would someone add on extra time to their movements?
He could have said he left at 2.30 and had been out for one – 1 hour? But what he says is that he had been out for one and a half – 1.5 – hours. A smokescreen for ‘I wasn’t there’? ‘I got there later’ Or ‘I didn’t get there till it had all happened’? ‘Don’t include me in this?’ Or can the extra half hour be put down to a vague witness recollection? Does this not stick out as being odd?
Like when wife asks where have you been all this time? Oh the traffic was heavy, I got lost on a side road, I stopped for a nap etc etc.
Strawberry 5.40pm
“Did SAH drive from Calais to Saint Jorios avoiding tolls? 956 km (via Belgium, Luxembourg & Nancy)”
If he took that route would it pass anywhere near this place
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninove ?
I already mentioned this at MZT a few days ago, thinking they might know more about it, since it is a French connection, but it gained no traction. The story says SAH was in jihadi chat rooms to organize cells in France, or he was doing so working for MI-6, running a honey-pot to entrap potential jihadis.
The story says several terrorists taken out in France after event at Chevaline, but describes on this single rapper, who, incidentally, is big on the 9/11 conspiracy as a Flase Flag Op.
Here is something in France I have not seen mentioned. Was there not another rapper connected to the people in Mollier’s village and we thought maybe to LaRouche and the S&P? [That was the extreme animal activist rapper Ginolin.]
http://www.lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Are-Mossad-Killing-Anti-Israeli-Shills
“It is quite odd indeed. They have been arresting “Terror Cells” all over France since this murder.”
“Was the British-Iraqi guy a handler for an intelligence agency? If he had 4 PC’s and a Laptop and was in Arab Chatrooms, who is to say these chatrooms were not in France itself among the Arab-speaking French Islamists and that he was setting up “cells” of disaffected French Muslims and French-Muslim Converts?”
“Here is an interesting tidbit about the 33 year old who was killed in a French Terror Raid recently…”
October 9th 2012
“Jérémie Louis-Sidney, 33, the presumed leader of an Islamist terror unit, was shot dead by anti-terror police in a flat in Strasbourg on Saturday.”
“The rap video, recorded in May 2009 and played on several French news programmes last night, shows Louis-Sidney singing: “9/11 is only the tip of the iceberg… Know that you are being manipulated, if you don’t understand, read up, prepare yourself, arm yourself with knowledge.””
“At the end of the original video, which lasts three minutes, he says “Allah Akbar”, God is the greatest in arabic.”
“Dressed in a hooded coat and a kaffiyeh scarf, Louis-Sidney also raps about “kid trafficking” and “organ trafficking”, as well as the number 666 being written on the bar codes of cathodic ray tubes.”
“Louis-Sidney’s was tracked by anti-terror police after traces of his DNA were found on the pull ring of a grenade thrown into a kosher shop on September 19 in Sarcelles.”
@Ofilant
Quote.
Not sure about
* Green 4×4 plus motor bike passes WBM and SM on way up
* Green 4×4 plus motor bike passes WBM on the way back
Unquote.
This depends of course on how you view WBM’s statement.
However, he states….
He was passed by a 4×4 or other type of large vehicle
AND
He was passed by a motorbike on it’s way down.
A direction of trave is only mentioned for ONE vehicle.
He did go on to say…
“they were the only noticeable things for anybody coming down before I reached the car park”
And I have no idea what he means by that !
Coming down ! Him ? Them ? Who coming down ?
NR, there are plenty of willing recruits in France that’s for sure, what we need to know is, was Mollier interested in this kind of thing ?
@ Tim V 22 Nov, 2012 – 3:16 pm
“The whole of central america is a “Narco-State” Bluebird
22 Nov, 2012 – 2:05 am. Shock! Horror! in US government. Who are the customers for this illicit trade. Why of course the people of the US of A.”
And Canada. Gots to keep a reliable pipeline of assorted delightful substances flowing for all, from the super-elites down to the lowliest peoples of homelessness.
Something like 50,000 or 60,000 people killed to date in Mexico in the narcowars. Many in the most brutal and imaginative methods possible, far beyond anything AQ or affiliates have done. The cartels have their own web sites with vids to publicize their deeds and instill fear. Narco[something].com is one for fanz of extreme gore.
No one is bothered to take down these narco kill vids, as “somebody” managed to do worldwide with an infamous cannibalism vid a few months ago (excepting Goreish.com which refused). It’s since reappeared in Pakistan. Even Prez. O. wasn’t able to convince Google and YouTube to take down the blasphemous vid causing him troubles.
And we aren’t allowed to see SAH’s happy family pics ’cause a judge says they’re too “morbid”.
It’s all OK provided no beheaded bodies are hung upside down from the bridge where the 405 motorway goes over Sunset Boulevard.
@ bluebird 22 Nov, 2012 – 2:12 pm
“Regarding your question Michael Kelley:
By now there was no way to confirm whether or not Michael Kelley and Scott Kelley are related. There are too many Michael Kelleys. We’d need to know a birthday or else the name of his wife to get one step further here regarding a connection.”
Thanks for trying. It makes it much easier when people have the courtesy to pick a distinctive name for themselves, like Rocco or Luka. Makes it much easier to frame them and stalk them too. I’ll look later and see if I can find anything more.
But where did the fluent French of FBI agent Fred Humphries come from? A private college in Upper Canada? A public school in Scarborough, Trenton or Belleville? A school on a military base? Or perhaps one of those tiny towns bordering Quebec along the Ottawa River? Maybe Ottawa itself? Subtleties of various accents, like that of an Algerian-born Montrealer, are not something a beginner could recognize.
er, where does this 6 days come from? It has never been disclosed when the family left the UK or reached France.
Steilacoom, a bedroom community of Fort Lewis:
http://www.dodhousingnetwork.com/army/fort-lewis/nearby-cities.php?i=731
Q
What connection does steilacoom have? I missed something perhaps.
Q
Battle Creek was Moncy Shirleys ex husband. However, he was there before 1999. Not recently as far as i know. I dont think that they had drones in the 1990tees there. However, he could still know friends there.
NR
Here are names of 2 other arrested french djihadists of that group. One of them was an ex FC Portsmouth soccer professional. Did SAH fund this group? We know that they are funded with drug money and by intelligence services.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214531/Former-Portsmouth-FC-player-11-alleged-Islamic-terrorists-targeting-Jews.html
Perhaps we can create a link between Ginolin, SAH and some of that grouo.
The grenade was an old serbian army grenade and sidney shot the policeguy with a 1935 constructed Magnum .357
Here is something about topless agent frederick w. Humphries. His wife is sara walker and she is apparently a friend of jill kelley.
http://showbizdaily.net/celebrity-bio/sara-walker-humphries-fbi-agent-frederick-w-humphries-iis-wife/
Interesting that humphries was always there when there was a “terrorist” in the usa, such as the shoebomber reid and others. He always seems to know in advance when there is a terrorist coming, or else he has just a special nose for terrorists. While Kellems is always close to an explosive, humphries is always closest for arresting a terrorist, whether he has got the bomb in his shoes or else in his panties.
This is the wife of the topless fbi agent.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/sara-humphries/7/859/239?_mSplash=1
Shelock H.
23 Nov, 2012 – 6:26 pm
Maybe not so stupid as we did hear from media reports that he was fed up with life in the west and wished to go back to Iraq. What if he had become involved with MI5 and wished to escape it? It seems you can’t escape that easily. Look at the current case of the Pakistani(?) who refused to work as a spy for MI5 and then had his British passport withdrawn resulting in him being stranded abroad cut off from his family. Mark you, if you do agree to work for them you might end up as a “terrorist” in jail as a patsy for one of their fake terrorist scenarios.
Humphries, topless fbi agent
He is always close to terrorists.
http://mobile.aviationpros.com/news/10830714/shirtless-man-in-cia-scandal-foiled-plot-to-blow-up-lax
And his house where he lives with his wife. How far away from the kelleys house is that?
http://www.city-data.com/hillsborough-county/E/E-Wheeler-Road-3.html
Topless fbi agent already close to terrorists pre 9/11.
This guy was alwyas next to terrorist.
Recommended to read:
Lots of new names being released there:
They also ask the question? Where did Humphries get all that information from over such a long period?
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20050508&slug=ressam08m
http://m.sodahead.com/united-states/elite-intrigues-its-not-about-sex-stupid/question-3342307/?feed=496486&new=1&scroll=1
Who were his whistleblowers?
Olifant
23 Nov, 2012 – 7:55 pm I ve mentioned the photo Arnaud so many times (and other stuff) i didn’t repeat it. Basically even if the photo is genuine i cant see how date or time would be accurate. first it would conflict with builders account and owners there at the time and they had to move stuff so hardly the same as seeing any old car is it? Second if they were there at 3.15 they would have had to pass Martin somewhere up the combe. Nor I would think is there actually time even in car at speed to get from there to martinet, park up and be shot all in 15 mins – its simple preposterous.
I quite agree with you about the strangeness of WBM’s statement on TV. I have pointed out the inconsistencies many times. Basically if we are to believe anything (and it seems he MUST be there; that the authorities announce he was there and pronounce him as heroic saviour of Zainab (although he clearly wasn’t); that at some point he met Didierjean (if we believe his testimony); that he actually was on a bike at least when he met Didierjean; that something did actually panic him. All the rest we rather have to take on trust from someone who’s story doesn’t add up.
Either he “set off at 2.30”, “journey took hour and a half” which would have got him there at 4 pm i.e. 12 minutes AFTER Millaud said he phoned, and of necessity pushing his meeting with Didierjean back if he did what he said he did making it quite impossible for Didierjean to have phoned at 3.48 either – the fall-back Maillaud position.
OR
He did arrive almost immediately after the shooting at 3.30 pm supported by his story of Mollier passing him – Mollier must have got there at 3.30 if we accept shooting happened then and Martin could only have been minutes behind him PLUS the condition of Zainab supports it – she was still conscious he says and passes out only after he’s arrived. With those injuries in a child that must be only minutes. So if THIS account is accurate either the ride took only an hour or he must have set off at 2 pm not 2.30 if it took 90 minutes.
You choose! Martin’s story CANNOT be accurate in all respects and he had plenty of time (five days) to get it right which also is strange too.
that’s interesting NR 23 Nov, 2012 – 8:18 pm. It would seem that France is on an anti islamic roll of which SAH/Mollier murders could only be a part. It may be clandestine which might account for the way the Chevaline case was almost ignored initially by the French press. I have always believed this had the stamp of state involvement stamped all over it. The only issue in my mind was which one was leader or agent or facilitator or passive observer. The more the French have tried to pass the buck or invent red herrings the more in my mind, they have implicated themselves.
Topless fbi agent:
Here you can see about where he had lived during his life. He moved quite often.
See: Frederick Ward Humphries
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&qf=frederick&qn=Humphries&qs=FL&trackit=74