Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278

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The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?

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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis”

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  • NR

    @ James 12 Dec, 2012 – 10:47 pm
    “Sayle Oil …in Memphis !
    ( http://local.answers.com/business/Sayle_Oil_Co–11813481.html )
    Elvis. America, Chicago, Mobsters ! I think it’s all the same things.”

    America, Chicago, Mobsters are all the same thing, more now than ever before. Elvis I don’t know about. In the upper right corner of the Memphis page is a link to “Making Bologna in Memphis”.

    Bologna is all we can make here, given the ingredients available to us.

  • NR

    @ Katie 12 Dec, 2012 – 7:30 pm
    “I agree with all you say NR. Frankly I thought it odd that Police had the licence to crawl all over a man’s house , rifle through his belongings & generally invade the families privacy … when he was not a criminal, on what grounds did they do that, was it in fact legal?”

    One can envision the police searching a victims house, presumably with a search warrant, and seizing computers, address books, etc. that might give a clue to a motive.

    But this was much more. Something SAH had, perhaps authorized or unauthorized – data, devices, materials, contacts, bank codes, was missing or they urgently needed to secure it. Since it appears to involve National Security don’t know if they need search warrants.

  • Tim V

    Really Bluebird
    12 Dec, 2012 – 10:38 pm? That’s news to me. How could I have missed that one?

    From the Guardian report “Didierjean, 41, told Le Parisien newspaper he had been hiking up the Combe d’Ire with two friends when he noticed the British cyclist coming down at speed: “He was in a panic and was coming down the route. He explained to me with difficulty in bad French that there had been a drama a little higher up. He wanted to alert the emergency services.”

    How could he be “coming down at speed” if he was carrying his bike?

  • Tim V

    James
    12 Dec, 2012 – 11:00 pm remember the average speed is both up and down whereas the 30 mins is all up.

  • Q

    @James: Thanks re: hawala.

    @Bluebird: There are sure a lot of people from Adelaide in aerospace/engineering/software and hardware engineering on contact #1’s list. I’m not sure why the musicologist is there, nor why someone with the UK probation service is listed.

    On boss’s list is a person from Reading with military background and security clearance:

    http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/trevor-prynne/5/77b/334?trk=pub-pbmap
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Corporation

    Some headings at wiki caught my eye: Criminal prosecution, ITT Avionics, Federal Aviation Administration NextGen, GeoEye-1. There’s a company from Tampa, Florida mentioned.

    Very interesting reading here: http://www.exelisinc.com/business/Pages/default.aspx

  • James

    Q

    You forget, That work pays well.
    I see some far off countries due to this work.

    Humans always fight. Its “hard wired”.

    It is a more a worry for me that there is a “lone nut” running around France, than a shooting of a “bad boy” (or bag dada bad boy!)

    71 x 84 ! are you kiddin me !

  • Q

    http://mycoordinates.org/remote-sensing-24/

    “GeoEye receives contracts for imagery production totaling more than $25 mn

    GeoEye has received two new awards worth more than $25 million. These awards will increase the backlog for the Company’s production services line of business. The first is a Delivery Order for “Enhanced GEOINT Delivery” for the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA). This Delivery Order is authorized under the EnhancedView award that GeoEye received from the NGA in August 2010. The second award is a subcontract with The Boeing Co. for Controlled Image Base production. The Boeing Co. contract provides products to the NGA. Under this subcontract, which was expected earlier in the year, the Company will provide highly precise imagery products from multiple satellite imagery sources, including imagery from GeoEye’s highresolution satellites.
    http://www.geoeye.com

    Lockheed Martin Begins GeoEye-2 Satellite Integration

    Lockheed Martin will soon begin integration of GeoEye’s next-generation, high-resolution Earth-imaging satellite, known as GeoEye-2, with the planned delivery of its integrated propulsion system to Lockheed Martin’s Sunnyvale, Calif. facilities later this month.
    http://www.lockheedmartin.comBoeing and Lockheed Martin are involved with GeoEye.”

    FYI, GeoEye has an office in Abu Dhabi.

  • NR

    @ Tim V 13 Dec, 2012 – 12:51 am
    “Really Bluebird
    12 Dec, 2012 – 10:38 pm? That’s news to me. How could I have missed that one?
    From the Guardian report “Didierjean, 41, told Le Parisien newspaper he had been hiking up the Combe d’Ire with two friends when he noticed the British cyclist coming down at speed: “He was in a panic and was coming down the route. He explained to me with difficulty in bad French that there had been a drama a little higher up. He wanted to alert the emergency services.”
    How could he be “coming down at speed” if he was carrying his bike?”

    To continue the confusion, here Didierjean says he had been “hiking up the Combe d’Ire with two friends” when other versions say he was driving up to Martinet (presumably) to begin an overnight hike.

  • Q

    “First of all, I would like to make one thing quite clear. I never explain anything.”

    Mary Poppins

  • NR

    @ Q :”Tampa company mentioned in ITT link at wiki:”
    http://www.mcsoftampa.com/services/voicedata-and-system-cabling

    “MCS demonstrated its unique ability…to install the category 6 and fiber to the desktop system for the… Intelligence Operations Center at Mac Dill, Air Force Base in Tampa, Florida. This project tested the limits of MCS’s ability to efficiently install, terminate and certify well over 140,000 optical fiber strands at this 4 story facility.”

    That is a huge number of optic fiber connections. Incidentally Cable & Wireless was another big operator in the biz, along with ITT. Their Wiki page is squeaky clean, like it was written by PR. No mention of Hitler, Himmler or overthrown South American governments there.

  • bluebird

    Tim V.

    I stay corrected regarding the “Carrying of the Bike”. I am sure that it was discussed on that board when it happened, but probably this was a translation error. It sounds more logic to me that he was cycling rather than running and carrying a bike. Thanks for the correction.

    James,
    I know that you must feel upset and perhaps you felt being treated unfair yesterday. However, I did always appreciate your wise and helpful posts in the past and I hope that you will continue to provide sane and wise input. Please don’t make a fool of yourself just for the only reason that you were feeling bad about katie’s or jon’s responses yesterday.

  • Pink

    early reports
    Telgraph 6/9/12

    “The older girl had been airlifted to hospital and was said to be in a stable condition at Grenoble University Hospital.
    A French newspaper reported she had not been shot but was brutally beaten before being left for dead with a fractured skull, nine miles from where the family had been camping at Le Solitaire du Lac campsite in Saint Jorioz.”

    ………..

    Lt. Col Vinnemann said: “The main witness, a cyclist who discovered the grisly scene, said he was overtaken by another cyclist on the climb that leads to the parking lot where the shooting took place.
    “Arriving there, he found the cyclist on the ground with gunshot wounds near a car. In the vehicle, a man and two women, has also been shot. On the other side of the car, a child of 6-8 years old was alive. He placed her in the recovery position until help arrived. She had been very badly beaten.”

  • bluebird

    9/11 – For various reasons regarding the al Hilli assassination, I don’t think that this is off topic:

    The most weird trial in history.

    You must read:

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/12/3138961/sept-11-judge-oks-war-court-audio.html

    What else will have to happen to hide the truth? Is that the “land of the free”? Is that democracy? Does this have anything to do with fair justice? Is this in the sense of the constitution? This is a bad theatre and not even the German NAZI’s, not even Hitler’s worst Blood Judge Roland Freisler were ever even close to such a farce of a “trial”. This is unbelievable. Censorship in a trial!

  • NR

    ^ ^ Comments will be closed on December 21, 2012. ^ ^
    >>Might as well close comments as the world ends then.<<

    @ James 12 Dec, 2012 – 11:57 pm – “Blue… Nada smoked. Anyway. SAH is a cheese smuggler. It is my view and I am sticking to it !”

    You have solved it! A year ago SM had his lunch in his jacket pocket – some Raclette, viande de cheval and a baguette. Standing between ingots of zirconium and halfnium he fired his welding laser. At lunchtime he found the Racellet had quadrupled in size and volume and improved in taste.

    It was like the dude at Raytheon who invented microwave ovens, noticing a melted candy bar in his pocket when he worked on magnetrons.

    SM was meeting SAHs at Martinet to sample his new improved cheese and tempt them as investors.

    When the cowherder with his cows came down the road they saw no harm in asking for his opinion of the new cheese and thinking him a simple man revealed the secret to its creation.

    But the cowherd immediately saw the implications – it would greatly reduce demand for his milk. Drawing his grandpa’s trusty luger, which he carried to protect his cows from wild boars, he murdered the lot of them.

    The secret services, knowing one or more of the dead were involved in nuclear matters, became involved, never suspecting the meeting involved cheese.

    As a courtesy, since this involves French cheese and a cow herder, I’ll copy it to MZT.

    @ all : Remember it is our duty to keep this discussion going until Trowbridge returns from his voyage to the New World with proof that WH is the shooter, at which time we must abandon the cheese theory.

    @ Blue… Nada smoked neither.

  • NR

    bluebird 13 Dec, 2012 – 8:55 am
    9/11 – For various reasons regarding the al Hilli assassination, I don’t think that this is off topic: The most weird trial in history. You must read:

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/12/3138961/sept-11-judge-oks-war-court-audio.html

    What else will have to happen to hide the truth? Is that the “land of the free”? Is that democracy? Does this have anything to do with fair justice? Is this in the sense of the constitution? This is a bad theatre and not even the German NAZI’s, not even Hitler’s worst Blood Judge Roland Freisler were ever even close to such a farce of a “trial”. This is unbelievable. Censorship in a trial!

    [from linked story] “… the CIA’s now closed secret overseas prison network — who captured them, interrogated them, where and using which Bush-era “enhanced interrogation techniques.” … to extract confessions and other information in the program that the Obama administration has since banned.”

    You think all this is “now closed” and “since banned” or they’ve just come up with new euphemisms for “extraordinary rendition” and “enhanced interrogation”?

    Someone might also ask the defendants if, given a choice, they would have chosen “enhanced interrogation” by war criminal W. or being “brought to justice” by Nobel Peace Prize winning O. and his “little list” of 2500 names.

  • bluebird

    NR
    13 Dec, 2012 – 9:55 am
    You think all this is “now closed” and “since banned” or they’ve just come up with new euphemisms for “extraordinary rendition” and “enhanced interrogation”?

    I believe that e.g. Saad al Hilli, Roland Carnaby, Sylvain Mollier, Dion Longworth and Rafael Prieto could answer this question if they were still able talking to us.

  • Tim V

    James
    13 Dec, 2012 – 2:32 am – “This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

    Sorry about that.”

  • Tim V

    I agree NR
    13 Dec, 2012 – 3:41 am that the reporting of PD’s account is fraught with apparent contradictions. I can’t even find the initial Parisien “interview” now on their own search facility. Do others have the same problem. “Didierjean” and his two anonymous female friends belatedly (five days) appeared out of the “fog” back into which they have since disappeared. “Hiking uo the Combe” certainly suggested they were walking to any English speaker but I’m not sure if this was just “lost in translation”. This later morphed to “approaching Chevaline at about 4.10” which later morphed to getting to the crime scene “just before 4”. It is impossible to know how much credence can be placed on Mr Didierjean and his story. However I still haven’t come across his reference to WBM “carrying his bike”. Do you have it?

  • Q

    @Strw44berry: I see the official photo of the Kate hoax nurse has now been changed to a younger, different woman. So how are they explaining the “family” carrying a totally different photo of a totally different woman? No explanation at all from what I’ve seen.

    A fine example of media manipulation/gaping holes in stories/”facts” that make no sense.

  • Tim V

    What’s news in this French language interview of Eric Maillaud dated 2nd December?
    http://www.au-troisieme-oeil.com/index.php?page=actu&type=skr&news=40574

    THE GUNMAN
    In this article he promotes the “lone crazed gunman” theory. It seems to think this was a poorly executed operation by a single crazed killer. Never-the-less said killer managed to kill four people with deadly accuracy and escape completely without trace, all in a matter of minutes. Some amateur that! “The hypothesis of a “crazed gunman” who could kill four people at random for mobile futile, is now “seriously considered.”

    He says his view that this was a lone mad killer is supported by criminal psychologist. He adds rather strangely: “” A defect in the DNA of the killer, a hundred gendarmes explore “more than a thousand cases,” according to Eric Maillaud: “This is an investigation that will likely result in the former.” 

    He says: “Assuming the weapon is local, it does not mean that the killer is necessarily” nuance Attorney Annecy. Eric Maillaud not rule out completely the hypothesis of a “professional sent by family or Iraq” to liquidate the al-Hilli, but do not really believe: “If it is a contract, it is very poorly executed. Unless this is a killer low-cost from the Balkans and Macedonia, and who obtains or steals the gun up. “In this case” where there has nothing in common, classic or obvious, “the judge is not certain that” piece of weapon “found on the crime scene comes from one who fired twenty shots”

    THE GUN

    Mr Maillaud appears to have changed his view about the use of the Luger 06. He now casts doubt on the plastic found that was claimed to identify the gun. Now it it is linked with “cigarette butts, hunting cartridges and faeces” found on the site from extraneous sources. Yet another U-turn?

    And he suggests the 7.65 caliber could have come from a number of model it seems: “A gun used by the Swiss army in the years 20-30     fragment A weapon discovered on indicates that the site is a Luger P06, as revealed by the world. caliber automatic pistol The 7.65 mm is quite common in Haute-Savoie equipped for the Swiss army during the 20 -30, then served in the Resistance during the Second World War. The profile of this weapon, and former local, most prized by collectors as hitmen seems hollow to provide information on the shooter, a man fond of weapons and a priori region, which lies 40 kilometers from Switzerland.

    “we also found lots of cigarette butts and hunting cartridges do not necessarily link the crimes: It is not interested in a single weapon, but that can take several this caliber, 7.65 mm.”

    THE TIMELINE

    Then as to the time line, he is now claiming that the Al Hilli’s were shot the moment they arrived significantly at 3.30 when the shots were heard. He bases this on a statement by Zainab that the shooting started as soon as they arrived. If true this is a very weighty piece of evidence but can we trust it? He claims the tyre tracks are those of the BMW. He claims the shooting lasted only a minute whilst the police apparently think it was 4 minutes. He says:

    “7 year old, Zainab al-Hilli, which was “enormously difficult to talk about the facts,” could nevertheless explain, “despite its consequences “, rapid gunfire. soon as the break BMW Saad al-Hilli stopped on the parking forest to 15 h 30, Zainab, who was on the child seat in the front is lowered with his father: “She says it happened instantly upon arrival upstairs. It is out of the car with his dad and the scene began and lasted a very short time.” Investigators know that “Saad al-Hilli immediately went back into his vehicle and tried to make a U-turn to go back “as shown in the tire tracks.     During this maneuver, the “wicked” continues to shoot. receded, Saad al-Hilli his car stuck in the slope, the rear wheels turn in the air. Savoyard A cyclist emerges at this moment falls also under fire. shooter is to head the occupants of the BMW then, probably due to lack of ammunition, trying to completing Zainab, always outside, with the butt on the head. For the prosecutor, “these people have died perhaps not even a full minute. Otherwise how to explain that women in the back of the BMW, except be completely paralyzed and crippled, did not try to open the doors? “The mother had the reflex to protect his 4 year old daughter, Zeena, by hiding under her skirts. crime scene lasted four minutes, according to police, or less than sixty seconds, according to the prosecutor: ”

    SOME PROBLEMS WITH MAILLAUD’S INTERPRETATION OF EVENTS

    Now this interpretation of events throws up numerous problems that Mr Maillaud doesn’t attempt to explain:

    1. the Laurent-Fillon builders have to be way out on their estimate of the time they passed them;

    2. he hasn’t explained how if the photo at Droussard is reliable, they got from there to Martinet including the manoeuvres and were all dead in less than 15 minutes;

    3. he is obviously suggesting that they were parked up at the Sign end, had got out of the car, and that Saad dived back in the car there, before carrying out the manoeuvre that left the skid marks. This is clearly ludicrous as all the cartridges would have to have been found at the opposite end of the layby not to mention the fact that the tracks just don’t fit this scenario as previously discussed.

    4. it flatly contradicts his earlier statement that Mollier had been the first shot. It would mean that Mollier would have had to have arrived BEFORE the car and already have lain injured when they arrived. I suppose it might be possible but would Al Hilli have stopped and allowed his daughter to get out in such circumstances? Anyway this would have required two distinct phases of shooting, rather than one.

    5. it would have meant Al Hilli’s MUST have passed WBM cycling up the hill. This interpretation of events doesn’t work at ANY level so it is very hard to understand Zainab’s alleged description.   

    So to sum up, Mr Maillaud is retreating on the weapon and backing a theory of the killer and events which is not only not supported by the styated evidence but is flatly contradicted by it. He mentions both forestry vehicle and motor cycle that are crucial witness evidence but treats them almost casually. As the only 4×4 vehicle identified actually at the crime scene at the right time, it surely deserves much more explanation. As an admission of abject failure in effective policing I doubt it could be bettered. How convenient the investigation has been kicked into the long Marram Grass of Iraq?

    http://www.au-troisieme-oeil.com/index.php?page=actu&type=skr&news=40574

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