The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Your research skills are amazing BB! Here’s an interesting last sentence apropos Mollier’s racer don’t you think? Just confirms our earlier conclusions about intended destination.
“The forestry road climbs up the beautiful Combe d’Ire valley, accompanied by the noisy but scenic little Ire river. After just three kilometres the road is closed to cars – sweet. At times, this can be very steep with one full km at 12%, and with 5 kms to go the road becomes gravel and bumpy – hard work. But fun in this deserted mountain valley.
There are very occasional views of Lake Annecy in the distance, and the impressive cliffs of Mont Trelod above the Col.
The descent is VERY steep and bumpy for a few kms, and then becomes paved again.
Approaching Le Chatelard, I had to pay attention to find the little turn-off up towards Col du Plane. Another superb deserted road – at times very steep. Just like Co de Chérel, the last few kms on either side of the Col are NOT paved – this is not a route for a road bike.”
Thanks Marlin
2 Mar, 2013 – 5:08 am. Always a pleasure to read your thoughts. At the moment I’m watching 2008 film “Body of Lies”. It’s about spies who want to turn, assets that attempt to run. Nisan Pajeros even. And the quality of satellite surveillance at Langley. I doubt it is that far fetched and have little doubt it would have been used at Chevaline. Have you noticed Maillauds latest outpourings of “cultural differences” this time with America which is apparently refusing to release Al Hilli stuff from US data bases. http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/saad%20al-hilli
Now here’s my idea about the purpose of Chevaline. How about Israeli/American/Mossad/CIA purport to be speaking for Iran/Syria having monitored both SAH and his extended family plus SM forcibly placed on “extended leave” either because he was aware of covert Areva activities and considered a weak link or because he had the attributes (disallusionment/grudge with Cezus/lack of money etc) to be susceptible to offers. The deal being money PLUS extraction of mother in law Suhaila al-Allaf, to Iran in return for technical information relating to Mossad/CIA networks and operations obtained via the family and other connections identified here. Suhaila (for as yet unidentified reason) wanted out of Sweden (was it getting too hot there?) but given Swedish/British extradition arrangements, and the 3 month limit to her stay, extraction to Iran attractive. British Intelligence fooled as well thinking the offer/meeting genuine. They are running SAH and see this as an opportunity not only with SAH working for Iran but also Suhaila as a plant. However CIA/Mossad see this as an opportunity to wipe at least two significant Iraqi/Iranian/British assets and this is what transpires. WBM sent in to confirm everything gone to plan. Suhaila’s disappearance would cause no alarms. However he discovers instead a massacre and the described panic by “PD” is more accurate than his own description of a calm and rational approach. The French SS are aware of the true purpose but do not inform British who would have pulled the meeting. The French may have had their own reasons primarily based on not upsetting the UAE/Dubai major nuclear deals. What do you think?
A new, questionable suicide, in JUNE 2012, possibly connected to somebody’s SIS.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2280635/Shane-Todd-Death-American-engineer-Singapore-working-Gallium-Nitrate-project.html
@ Tim V 31 Oct, 2012 – 2:45 pm
“‘Friends’, popping up anonymously last week, recalled for the Press Association that the fire brigade once rescued Mr Rusbridger after he became stuck in a garden shed. His clothing on that occasion was ‘bizarre’, and the gas mask was again in evidence. There were whispers about a past ‘mental condition’.”
“What perhaps is less well known is the connection with the mysterious death of Stephen Milligan in spookily similar circumstances to those of James Rusbridger, Jonathan Moyle and Gareth Williams previously discussed here.”
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/not-forgetting-the-al-hillis/comment-page-29/#comment-376227
Whoever did the job in Singapore forgot to have friends and neighbours make pointed comments, no womens clothes, rumours of jihadist chats or Satsuma oranges either, but they did include an improbable mechanical mechanism for hanging.
@ Q 2 Mar, 2013 – 7:59 pm
“Who held what citizenship on that day in the mountains of France?”
Over at MZT there was discussion of passports. There are two versions of passports in the BMW.
The first was that passports were found in the footwell or doorpocket on the driver’s side. These identified the occupants and led to the campground where fellow campers revealed a 2nd girl – the 4-year-old, was in the party, whereupon police assumed she’d been kidnapped and launched the search with heat-detecting cameras on a helicopter.
That tale conflicts with claims that the car was unopened awaiting forensics.
The second version was that the rear lift gate of the BMW was already open and passports were found there, which launched the search for the younger girl.
The question is, were there two (or more) sets of passports?
Australian, Canadian, Irish passports?
A what if — was the meeting at Martinet for something as mundane as the SAH group picking up new passports on their way to wherever? Reasonably good commercial fakes, from obscure countries, are available for EU 25,000 each. Or a SIS could supply them, and Martinet was the place where SAHs would assume new identities or nationalities.
New (to me) pic of SAH. Also a pic of what looks like an expensive cat strolling behind police guarding the gate at Claygate. It doesn’t look like a Manx cat, but it could be a Persian cat! That would be a clue.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200852/Alps-massacre-girl-coma-Police-wait-coax-horror-seven-year-old-sister-flies-home.html
@NR: Of course Zeena is in the care of her maternal aunt and uncle in the U.K. Why would we think otherwise? Oh, er, she’s in a safe house. That’s right. She’s in the care of a foster family who are not from her culture, and her relatives are trying to get her back.
As always, so many contradictions.
I did a reconstuct months ago based upon the photographic evidence and statements of varying reliability. Someone was nice enough to say it was the most convincing they had seen. Significantly it has NEVER been the official version and I am always suspicious of interpretations, including official ones that clearly contradict the photographic evidence – the position of the bodies, and the explanation of the tyre tracts are just two. The interpretation of what may be seen as an indicator of what happened is of course quite different to explaining why it happened and by whom. Our intrepid and amazing researchers have uncovered a significant web that subsequent “cleaning” rather confirms. We have the “Five Eyes” that Mossad and French are not included in. Israel and US have an ambivalent relationship both co-operative and mutually suspicious. France has strong historic links with N Africa and the Middle East. It’s impossible to say how these allegencies and strategic interests play out in terms of covert activities. It’s a messy, messed up business in which human life counts for little. Having allowed Pakistan and India, arch enemies, to have nuclear weapons, and failed to prevent N Korea, and positively assisted Israel, it’s a bit rich to take such exception to Iran and to be prepared to go to war to prevent it on the say so of the Zionists. Muslims are clearly America’s replacement for Communism that strangely wasn’t the threat it was despite nuclear China being more powerful than ever. Are the “five” singing from the same hymn sheet, let alone the rest of the world?
From this link Bluebird provided above:
http://www.whoismcafee.com/a-clear-and-present-danger/
McAfee: “What is different today from the wholesale Belizean passport selling of ten years ago, is that the false citizenships that are created for these men are coupled with a network of handlers designed to move the individuals, and their cargo, into the U.S.”
Was a similar operation in effect at Martinet? One waystation to wherever?
From a comment Sorenson posted in Sept 2012 – re Mossad in the Clinton era. Contains other interesting bits in light of Ben Zygier:
“For nearly a year, FBI agents had been tracking an Israeli businessman working for a local phone company. The man’s wife is alleged to be a Mossad officer under diplomatic cover at the Israeli Embassy in Washington. Mossad — the Israeli intelligence service — is known to station husband-and-wife teams abroad, but it was not known whether the husband is a full-fledged officer, an agent or something else.”
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/not-forgetting-the-al-hillis/comment-page-39/#comment-380916
Link to a story on the passports found in the BMW.
http://www.france24.com/en/20120906-british-driver-killed-france-iraqi-origin-annecy-maillaud-france
Is there anything to link the owner of “Le Chatox” in Le Chatelard with Iraq? That apart what connection could there be to Martinet? Cycling? But then it seems everyone cycles in Savoie.
There is just the possibility an assassin could drive from Martinet to Jarsy. But surely no chance the BMW was to have gone this way.
Driving from from Chevaline to Le Chatelard would be possible. The wife of Dennis Janin, farmer and cheesemaker at the Col de Cherel, was driving cows along the road (supposedly at 16.00) on the day of the “tuerie” and saw a motorbike patiently waiting for them to pass. Le JDD said yes a vehicle could escape by driving up there but (“test a l’apui”)( examine the facts or look at the evidence?) “it takes an hour and a half to go the 20km from Chevaline to Jarsy”. Google maps says the drive takes 48mins. (10 min less from Martinet) (Google accepts a request for directions from Jarsy to Combe d’Ire and Chevaline straight through the restricted area!! What assumptions does Google apply here?) Hikers, bivouacs, and most vehicles are forbidden in the nature reserve of Bauges. “The valley of Ire is partially paved. It is prohibited to vehicles except landowners, farmers and foresters”. (skitour.fr/sorties/bonnet-de-cherel – where bloggers complain about loss of the right to roam).
Locals complain that les chasseurs / hunters take their 4×4’s up there. Getting a permis de chasser (for life) costs 46euro, an affidavit of no limitations, a medical certificate, no past convictions, special provisions for those on national service, passing a hunters exam. Unpopular forest wardens turn out in force on fete days looking for vehicles straying beyond the “sauf au riverains” notices . Melvin the teenager from Chevaline happily rode his motorbike along the forest roads. Videos Montee au col de Cherel and Le col de Cherel sous le nuages show the steep and at times very rough track as well as paved sections. Mountain bikers manage the steep uphill climbs going south to Jarsy; they are welcome to stop off for a drink at Le Chatox on the return leg to lake Annecy; the owner is a keen cyclist (cycling-challenge.com) A Golfiste (golfiste.be) drove his VW up to the Col de Cherel from Jarsy and published a picture. It a possible way of approaching Matinet from the south on motorbike, and it could be also be a possible escape route.
But it seems more likely that a motor bike assassin was the one departing down from the Combe d’Ire on the Ancien (back) road, stopped there by the ONF, and escorted with their green 4×4 down the Route Forestiere to Chevaline.
Good to see that this thread has continued during my long absence, but hardly surprising that you can only at best refer to a likely, unnamed motor bike assassin, going down the back road where he was stopped by the ONF, and was escorted down the Route Forestiere to Chevaline.
Sure sounds like William Hershkovitz who went berserk over the fiasco massacre.
Looking into his experience with motor bikes, and weapons, especially pistols, while attending the State University at New Paltz – what would explain why he felt so confident in taking the pistol away from the security guard to kill Armando al-Abed.
Hershkovitz’s photo should be provided to investigators to see if members in the ONF vehicle can identify him as the possible escaping gunman.
And that’s another thing. Do Arabs wanting to avoid comment go about wearing black clothes, and presumably head scarves in that loose hijab style? Unmistakable. Would they go on a “secret mission” dressed so distinctively? So obviously standing out in the Alpine backwoods and villages. Did they need to show who they were and where they came from? Or was the proposed meeting something only Saad knew about and while needing them to come along, couldnt divulge what was going on. Or was the scheduled meeting with a junior member of a network which would escape them, was this thought to be only a fairly low risk first step. Neither at the camping site nor at the parking space did the al Hillis try and merge with their surroundings. They cant have sensed the danger.
Annuaire Inverse shows that Dennis Janin lives at Etre, Jarsy. So it seems his home is about 6ml / 20 min (google)from the farm at the Col de Cherel where he and his wife keep 70 cows. Here you can buy the Tomme alpine curd cheese, Bauges Gruyere and goats cheese, also on sale in the market at Doussard. Some good views of the farm buildings show up on pressing Streetview. Inference – M Janin drives to his work from his home in Jarsy/Etre
@Pink: Ever so confusing about those passports, as it has been all along. It would almost appear that the children and their mother were not British citizens. It would almost appear that the children and their mother might have been meant to have a different destiny from the others, or that it was important for their passports not to be found at the scene, in that version of events.
@Q
The story doesn’t come across very clearly does it,if SAH’s passport was found at the scene why did they have to trace the number through the car registration ?
The 2002 date as well where does that fit in ?
Pink 3 Mar, 2013 – 9:00 pm
“@Q: The story doesn’t come across very clearly does it,if SAH’s passport was found at the scene why did they have to trace the number through the car registration ?”
From my memory, the stories went: “ID of Saad al Hilli was by passport found in footwell or doorpocket on driver’s side, identity of others still a mystery. Then, much later, the story that ID (of all?) was by passports found at rear, through already open liftgate.
I originally missed the story that you quoted of passport number discovered via number plate. Last two stories were needed to explain how, if the crime scene was frozen and car unopened, they came to ID at least Saad and track down the campground where they learned of extra, missing child.
Who knows if the varying stories came from police, officially or off-record, or if some were concocted by the media.
@Pink: That story is entirely confusing from top to bottom. From what it says, it is unclear if two or three passports were found at the scene. If SAH’s passport was found, they would have known he was a British citizen, and wouldn’t have had to go through tracing his vehicle registration to get his passport number, unless the passport was not legitimate. Were two or three passports found, or was it the four we’ve read about elsewhere? The story says the children’s and mother’s (or was she?) passports were not found. So if the other stories were correct, who did the fourth passport belong to, and which country issued it, and was it fake or real?
France 24 has lied before (reference the story of Australian Nigel Brennan and Canadian Amanda Lindhout; an intentional lie for the purpose of good is a lie nonetheless).
Olifant
You are perfectly correct. When you enter “Doussard – Jarsy” into google maps, then the route being displayed is the restricted Combe d’Ire route for a car. I wonder about what route other navigation computers like tomtom would suggest. Usually they won’t navigate into restricted routes. Therefore i guess that the navigation maps do not know whether or not this forest road is closed for cars. I would have driven the same way as suggested by google maps if i were a tourist there.
Here is the best website description about how to access Le Chatox.
http://m.holidaylettings.co.uk/#rentals/190448
Goto “locations” and then select “how to access”.
I am sure that you can find the exact position of Le Chatox on that map then.
NR
3 Mar, 2013 – 1:33 am re Shane Todd it’s amazing how these suspicious “suicides” leave evrything so neat and tide aprospos Gareth Williams et al.
NR and Pink @ 7.27 The issue of passports has been discussed before here. All the police inspired (we presume) graphics, show them in the driver’s footwell. However we can’t rely on the graphics because we know FOR SURE that they are unreliable despite their source. This either means they were prepared with little concern for accuracy of the police sources were deliberately misleading. They also differ in small and important details one from another. Some have the lay-by and vehicles on the RHS and there are minor variations on the actual location and configuration of the two persons (one dead, one unconscious) outside the car. None of the graphics show SM as described when found by the police as lying with arms neatly at his side. Howeve all graphics seem agreed as to the passports in the drivers footwell and the location of about 15 cartridges next to the off-side rear door. It is unlikely that this was just a guess and so back to the first sentence. Now this is where the official story line become flakey because if they were in that location it must have been possible to se them there even with a dead SAH in the driver’s seat especially as WBM had smahed a hole in the driver’s door glass. Are you telling me that police on scene would have resisted the obvious step of retrieving them to establish who they were dealing with? Without this information they could only go on the car registration presumably, for which they would have to contact British police. But this would have revealed only the car owner not the others. And this of itself would not have told them where they were based though I suppose an intensive ring round might have established this eventually. It certainly wasn’t as a result of any public news item or request for information. It is hard to believe that those passports, if they were there as suggested by the graphics, had to wait until 11 pm when we are told Zeena was found. We have never been told the explanation of the open boot shown on the aerial photo and whether the car was found that way or if it was opened by police or for that matter whether it indicates something had been removed from there.
Tim V
3 Mar, 2013 – 11:58 pm * tidy (of course)
“Concerns have been raised that clinical judgments are being skewed by incentives for hospitals to use the pathway. Health trusts are thought to have been rewarded with an extra £30million for putting more patients on the LCP.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2287145/Patients-death-pathway-doctors-idea-history.html
It’s a possible motive, if JD/AC — the Norfolk Broads murder/suicide — uncovered this.
@ Tim V 3 Mar, 2013 – 11:58 pm
“NR 3 Mar, 2013 – 1:33 am re Shane Todd it’s amazing how these suspicious “suicides” leave evrything so neat and tide aprospos Gareth Williams et al.”
There’s the original investigative report in the Financial Times that has interesting technical details. The link is one with a limited number of views that are likely used up by now.
Connections to many US and European companies, dual-use technology, etc. The readers’ comments — mostly Singaporean — say Shane Todd’s patents (patents with his name on them – doubt he owned them outright, though he might have had some financial interest in them) worth billions, ended up owned by South Korean interests.
One quote on processes (such as SM or SAH may have known): “…likened Veeco’s equipment to an oven used to bake a cake; the customer buys the oven and decides the recipe for its technology. Veeco provides “basic process recipes in training, not the cutting-edge recipes that our customers develop for their specific needs”, she said. The customers’ technology determines the ultimate end use, she added.”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/afbddb44-7640-11e2-8eb6-00144feabdc0.html
A noteworthy detail is that the company in the US that offered him a job upon his return negotiated a pay-package worth US$105,000 annually not much for a patent generating Phd., when mid-level local bureaucrats are paid 2 to 3 times that, plus $500/mo car allowance, vast pensions, and of course juicy severance deals if they need to be dismissed because of malfeasance.
France 24 needs reporters, if anyone’s interested.
http://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English/posts/207284345954552
I do not know if they are hiring editors or fact-checkers, or anyone with basic skills in logic, or good judgment.
I believe that the matter of fact that google maps GPS navigation as well as tomtom GPS navigation (and possibly Garmin, too) do not know that the Combe d’Ire route is closed after 3 km and that they suggest to use this route for driving a car from Doussard to Jarsy, gives us a complete new sight on that event and its timeline.
Saad did not know that there was an impasse, because as every other tourist would do, he did rely on his GPS navigator. I would do what it suggests, too. There is a possibility that you do not recognise the warning and info plate located at the beginning of the Combe d’Ire route. And even then when i would see it, I would rely on what my GPS navigation would tellme to do.
We have to think about that he was not planning to stop after 3 km but to follow his GPS navigator on the shortest route to Jarsy, probably already driving several miles past the end of the paved road but returning once the road was getting too dangerous for the BMW, possibly having got a destroyed tire caused by a sharp stone on that bumpy road what was the main reason to return. Going uphill by car, delayed by a bumpy road, destroying one tire, making some pictures and then returning would easily take 40-60 minutes.
That would make some sense regarding the timings and would make sense abput why they were driving that road at all.
@ Trowbridge H. Ford 3 Mar, 2013 – 3:26 pm
Welcome back. In your inquiries did you find WH suffered from depression and had he been treated with anti-depressants and/or Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) the newest technology for treatment resistant depression?
Could a side-effect of that be responsible for his unusual behavior in Israel; the head-banging on the walls?
@ bluebird 4 Mar, 2013 – 8:20 am
If SAH used GPS nav and it didn’t indicate the road was blocked, there’s a good lawsuit coming, since he ended up at Martinet because of that. You may have made the orphans, and some barristers and solicitors, rich.
Also maybe you just made EM’s job easier, because I think in the US it is easier to get info – computer data – for a civil lawsuit, subpoenas only needed, not criminal search warrants.
NR
Possibly. However i doubt that you could sue google or tomtom for a wrong map. You exclude that by accepting their TOS.
You can still see that it is wrong. Goto google maps and enter a navigation route (by car) from Doussard to Jarsy and it will suggest you the closed route of Combe d’Ire for your tour by car. My Tomtom does the same route suggestion, Garmin i don’t have and so I cannot check it out.