by craig on April 10, 2013 11:20 am in Uncategorized

In the week they took hundreds of pounds from people in severe poverty, MPs and Lords claim up to £3,750 each to return from their luxury holidays to spout off in honour of Margaret Thatcher. Meantime the media are busy classifying any potential protest or expression of opinion at the taxpayer funded funeral jamboree as “potential terrorism”.

Whether protest at the funeral is tasteful or not is a fair question. But there is no question it is perfectly lawful. There is virtually no understanding of the very notion of civil liberty in the mainstream media.

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  1. They understand perfectly. They’re just bastards.

  2. You’re forgetting how she saved the whole country from economic collapse. We would have gone back to the stone age and all been living in animal skin tents lamenting the lack of a boadicea to leads and remembering the good ol’ day when folk had electric and shoes. Well, that’s the impression I get when I don’t turn off quick enough when another wall-to-wall tribute starts…

  3. English Knight

    10 Apr, 2013 - 11:42 am

    “There is virtually no understanding of the very notion of civil liberty in the mainstream media”

    Lord Leveson and cabal know all about civil liberties, but even more about the cabala required to stifle them. Esoterically, a critical mass of consciousness is required to break the grip (or spell)of the rupert mordechai devils in the press , led at its apex by the Assange and Bradley Manning kind of souls. The ultimate target of Joe Lieberman in America was to make it a crime to even watch a 911 denial video on YouTube let alone the right to only march on the high street !!

  4. They know all about civil liberties in the mainstream media. It’s just that they prefer uncivil ones.

  5. Protest at funerals is a powerful political tool, used around the world. ‘Taste’ doesn’t come into it, much as our rulers would like us to think it did. A public funeral is a powerful statement which should be countered by those who oppose what it is praising. Indeed, as this one is publicly funded, it should probably be open to the public, and we should all be able to join the cortege, singing and dancing, as we see fit. At the very least, we would seem to be entitled to demand that broadcast coverage is balanced. Equal time should be given to the ceremonies, opinions and spokespeople of the opposition.

    A quiet, private funeral, attended by family and friends in their personal grief, would very likely be left alone.

  6. Following the death of former British Premier Margaret Thatcher, the song “Ding Dong! The witch is dead” from the movie The Wizard of Oz has leaped to the top of the most popular British songs.

  7. And start at 2.30!!! Geez, it’s almost as if it’s been planned so they can meet their mates, have a lovely lunch on the terrace washed down with a decent claret and then go and spout shit for 5 minutes before getting back to the boozer. Tough work down t’pits thee knows?

  8. At the Telegraph, which only a few weeks ago was bleating
    about the effects of Leveson on their ability to express
    free speech, comments are still closed on all of the many
    suck-up articles about thatcher.

  9. As I said earlier when I mentioned the Sky News banner announcing it, ‘they’ are laughing in our faces, again.

  10. May the Iron Lady rust in piss.

    (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)

  11. The 1979 Tories bought its ideological opponents with jobs as well as starving or imprisoning activists. Very, very few ideological opponents found themselves able to resist their bribery.

    In the absence of ideological opposition and in the face of imprisonment for criticising Mrs Thatcher’s ideas, most opponents gave up, leading to the creation of an artificial opposition, in the form of the (Tory) New Labour party.
    We only know now 30 years later how much damage Mrs T had done.

    It reminds me of the tactics of the present Salafist Islam, wrong in ideology, violent to all opposition, fed by a neo-Con gravy train, set up by the CIA to force people to embrace a false opposition in the form of the Muslim Brotherhood. We will know in 30 years time how much damage they have done.

    Crass? There are no words to describe the qiyanat/betrayal of those who sell themselves and their ideals for money/power. there are many Arabic words in the Qur’an which describe this sacrifice of Truth for temporary gain. Fasad, Fusuq, Chusr/ wikipedia : Fasad (Arabic: الفساد) is corruption, unlawful warfare, or crimes against law and order in the Muslim community. Fasad is a general concept of social disorder…

  12. It gets worse.

    Currently on Ch 81, a repeat of Whittingdale giving a lecture on Thatcher – ‘1911 Centenary Lecture’ November 2012

    Then on Ch 81 from 14.30 until 23.00 live coverage of the commons ‘debate’/eulogy/

    On BBC 2 from 14.10 until 16.00 ‘Andrew Neil presents live coverage of the parliamentary debate following the death of Baroness Thatcher and is joined in the studio by Ken Livingstone and Edwina Currie.’


    PS I never knew of Whittingdale’s Rothschild connection.

    From 1982-4, Whittingdale was Head of the political section of the Conservative Research Department. He then served as Special Adviser to three successive Secretaries of State for Trade and Industry, Norman Tebbit, 1984-5; Leon Brittan, 1985-6, and Paul Channon, 1986-7. He worked on international privatisation at NM Rothschild in 1987 and in January 1988, became Political Secretary to the Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher. Upon her resignation, Whittingdale received the OBE and he continued as her Political Secretary until his election to Parliament in 1992

  13. Correction Whittingdale was speaking in 2011.

    Cannot see any reason here why the series of lectures is labelled 1911 Centenary Lectures apart from the fact that there was a coronation and a census. Note every seventh person was a domestic servant. How lovely. Yet we still have the Downton Abbey and Upstairs Downstairs crap thrust at us.

  14. Tom Kennedy, I had to laugh. You’ll be giving all the drunks from the wicked witch street-parties ideas.

    She was brought up a Methodist, like George W. Bush, oh, and me. God, how could I have got myself into that company? Anyway, they should not get 12 year-olds to sign a pledge that they would never drink alcohol. It made me feel awful guilty for a short while. I think it was the guilt that made me throw up to begin with. I found you can get used to most alcoholic poisons in the end. I’ll drink to your wit Tom Kennedy.

  15. Sorry, Craig, I can’t take this. I have enjoyed following your blog, but I shan’t in future.

  16. Hi Craig. Re your blog post concerning the desirability of ODIHR overseeing the independence referendum, a corresponder has received this reply;

    “In accordance with ODIHR’s election observation methodology, the deployment of an election observation activity requires an invitation from the respective OSCE participating State. Existing OSCE commitments do not oblige participating States to invite ODIHR to observe at referendum, nor is ODIHR required to respond positively if such an invitation is received.

    Some states have issued such invitations and the Office has observed a small number of referenda in the past. In the case of the upcoming referendum in Great Britain, ODIHR would consider undertaking an observation activity upon invitation by the Government of the United Kingdom. The media environment and the nature of the coverage of the referendum would be among the aspects of the campaign that such an election observation activity would assess.”

  17. resident dissident

    10 Apr, 2013 - 3:19 pm

    She was brought up a Methodist, like George W. Bush, oh, and me. God, how could I have got myself into that company?

    Might I suggest you go and read EP Thompson’s The Making of the English Working Class to understand why this is the case.

  18. resident dissident

    10 Apr, 2013 - 3:24 pm

    I do hope that all those contemplating a protest at Thatcher’s funeral do engage their brains first – anything without dignity will just play into the hands of the Thatcherites – a quiet turning of backs would probably make the point better than anything else.

  19. Will the new archbishop be taking the service next Wednesday?

    How about this for trimming? Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds or whatever the saying is.

    It is really surprising that, in an interview with The Jewish News, Archbishop Welby, who is scheduled to visit Israel in June, now says he should have voted against a General Synod motion that endorsed the Ecumenical Accompaniment Programme in Palestine and Israel (EAPPI), which was passed by the Synod last year (News, 29 June 2012, Synod, 13 July 2012

  20. Ha! LOL

    MP Graham Stringer: Thatcher funeral should be funded by business

  21. It gets a lot more crass. The funeral is going to have a “Falklands War theme”. Never mind the people who did and didn’t live to die in their sleep in their 80s in the Ritz like she did.

  22. Oops. Never mind the people who died I meant.

  23. Prefer Hazlitt, RD –

    “But Legitimate Governments (flatter them
    as we will) are not another Heathen mythology. They are nei-
    ther so cheap nor so splendid as the Delphin edition of Ovid’a
    Metamorphoses. They are indeed “Gods to punish,” but in
    other respects men of our infirmity. They do not feed on
    ambrosia or drink nectar ; but live on the common fruits of the
    earth, of which they get the largest share, and the best. The
    wine they drink is made of grapes : the blood they shed is that of
    their subjects : the laws they make are not against themselves :
    the taxes they vote, they afterwards devour. They have the same
    wants that we have: and having the option, very naturally help
    themselves first, out of the common stock, without thinking that
    others are to come after them. With the same natural necessi-
    ties, they have a thousand artificial ones besides; and with a
    thousand times the means to gratify them, they are still voracious,
    importunate, unsatisfied. Our State-paupers have their hands
    in every man’s dish, and fare sumptuously every day.
    They live
    in palaces, and loll in coaches. In spite of Mr. Malthus, their
    studs of horses consume the produce of our fields, their dog-ken«
    nels are glutted with the food which would maintain the children
    of the poor. Tbey cost us so much a year in dress and furniture,
    so much in stars and garters, blue ribbons, and grand crosses, —
    so much in dinners, breakfasts, and suppers, and so much in
    suppers, breakfasts, and dinners. These heroes of the Income-
    tax, Worthies of the Civil List, Saints of the Court-calendar
    (compagnons du lys)
    , have their naturals and non-naturals, like
    the rest of the world, but at a dearer rate. They are real bona
    fide personages, and do not live upon air. You will find it easier
    to keep them a week than a month ; and at the end of that time^
    waking from the sweet dream of Legitimacy, you may say with
    Caliban, ‘Why, what a fool was I to take this drunken monster
    for a God !

  24. I’m not saying absolutely definitely that she had wandered off from the Ritz in her nightgown in the middle of the night, staggered round the streets of Piccadilly, wide-eyed, dribbling, piss running down her leg, mumbling “I am the queen .. I AM the queen …” and clambered into the back of a dustbin lorry where she was crushed to death.
    But if she had done, they would hush it up and say she died peacefully in her sleep in her bed in the Ritz.

  25. I remember we had three small children, and because we were self-employed we had no benefits of any kind. Every day the Thatcher government would give you your daily wind-up. Sending money to Saddam, having cups of tea with Milosevic, refusing to intervene in Yugoslavia, Poll Tax, dentist fees, closing mines, importing US advisors.

    This funeral ought to see the biggest demonstration ever of protest at the destruction of representation of the people in the process of government. It ought to be the day when the police are kettled into the public toilets by the protesters and have to wee in their battle-gear like US soldiers in Iraq.

    It ought to be the day when the world’s leaders are kettled into St Pauls Cathedral with the mausoleums of the mafia of the British Empire, while the City of London makes whoopee for the passing of their Guru and the survival of her values through the treachery of the Liberal Democrats.

    If ever there was a fully bought-up member of the ideological opponents to Thatcherism, it is Nick Clegg.

  26. Keith Crosby

    10 Apr, 2013 - 4:29 pm

    Why would anyone object to a tastefull moon as the cortege goes by?

  27. doug scorgie

    10 Apr, 2013 - 4:38 pm

    Tom Welsh
    10 Apr, 2013 – 2:15 pm

    “Sorry, Craig, I can’t take this. I have enjoyed following your blog, but I shan’t in future.”

    Why Tom?

    Can you not explain yourself?

  28. Jonangus Mackay

    10 Apr, 2013 - 4:46 pm

    Thatcher fans & apologists loll deaf-blind to the import of Autumn ’08—that Britain’s economy is yet to suffer the full catastrophic effect of her & Mr Tony’s sustained State-sponsored fraud.

  29. ” There is virtually no understanding of the very notion of civil liberty in the mainstream media.”

    And virtually no understanding of the very notion of civilization in some branches of the alternative media.

    But you’re right, it is stupid or worse to confound the yobbish, “why should we work,” and “share de welf” mentality with terrorism.

  30. Jonangus Mackay

    10 Apr, 2013 - 4:53 pm

    What Blatcherism looks like on the ground:

  31. Canspeccy

    ‘And virtually no understanding of the very notion of civilization in some branches of the alternative media.’

    Are you talking about yourself?

  32. Jonangus Mackay

    10 Apr, 2013 - 5:19 pm

    No 1 test for new BBC boss Hall. ‘Ding, Dong! The Witch is Dead!’ has hit the Top 10. Capital Radio today simply removed the song from its charts despite its No 2 position. Will Hall censor?

  33. I was watching a video about Babar Ahmad on Islam channel at the weekend. The only way that an innocent activist ends up being attacked by police thugs and left to rot in a UK jail is by being betrayed and set up by a fellow Muslim. The UK authorities then process this information into a crime.

    This blog is the proof beyond doubt that nothing that is ever said or done which criticises the status quo ever results in harm coming to the person who is criticising or protesting. Otherwise we would all be festering in hospital or jail. The only real enemies of the UK are the paid-up, bought up representatives of the people, like MPs and the only real enemies of Islam are the paid up inventors of bull amongst the Muslims themselves. The worst participants in all progroms are the members of the victim groups themselves, seeking quick sales… potatoes, tomatoes…. scrap iron…scrap iron ladies…any old iron.

  34. I think this is what the Americans call a reality check isn’t it? A bit like when the taxpayer gets charged millions of pounds for policing the Equadorian Embassy because a man broke a condom that has no human DNA on it.

    Any illusions I had about the Monarch being neutral have been well and truly blown out of the water.

    That’s £8 Million of public money for a highly political ‘state’ funeral.

    Something is definitely rotten in the state of England.

  35. Stephen Morgan

    10 Apr, 2013 - 6:27 pm

    I believe 1911 was the year of the first National Insurance Act, and thus if not the birth then at least the conception of the welfare state. Along with several other reforms. Big year.

    As for the funeral, I think it would be most appropriate to put the corpse on the block, and allow the market to decide its fate. If that means the head being stuck on a pike and the body thrown to the dogs, then so be it. It’s what the market demands. I’d start a collection, but Tory government means I’m £30 a week worse off than last year.

    But it’s Ding! Dong! Silver lining!…

  36. Guano, your alias, a synonym for “shit,” is well chosen.

    But maybe with some thought you could improve your output to something of greater value.

  37. @Resident Dissident

    This is exactly what happened during the State Visit of the Emperor Hirohito to Britain in 1971. Silent crowds lined the streets in London – and ex-Japanese POWs turned their backs.

    Personally I think this is much more telling and humiliating for the Government and her supporters than making a personal statement that can land you in jail. This just plays into the hands of the neo-liberal right.

  38. doug scorgie

    10 Apr, 2013 - 8:06 pm

    10 Apr, 2013 – 5:21 pm

    Did you forget to take your pills today?

  39. A Node, I agree. I’ve often wondered about that phrase “died peacefully” and whether even if it appears so to an outsider. It is probably to ease the suffering of the bereaved. My understanding is a stroke is very painful. If that is so, and it causes paralysis, how would anyone know how much pain she was going through just because she, or any other dying person for that matter, is not thrashing about in the bed. Anyway it’s over for her, but not for us yet. We’ve got to suffer for another week at least.

    “Speaking to the BBC’s Breakfast programme, Hague said: “When it comes to money, the rebate she negotiated for this country from the EU has brought us so far £75bn – which is twice the size of our annual defence budget.”

    This drags my memory back a long way. If I recall correctly the reason we were paying so much more in the first place was because we had shilly-shallied over joining. Because of that other members objected so we went in on unfavourable terms in the first place. All she did was get us more into line with other member countries’ contributions.

  40. doug scorgie

    10 Apr, 2013 - 8:13 pm

    10 Apr, 2013 – 5:49 pm

    “Something is definitely rotten in the state of England.”

    Quite so. That is why Scotland wants independence; maybe Wales will be next.

  41. Canspeccy

    You like the misowogy of Thatcher, I believe.

    Doug Scorbie

    Pdmm pdmmm pdmmpdmmmpdmmmpdmmmpdmmmmmmmmpdmmm pdm.

  42. doug scorgie

    10 Apr, 2013 - 8:46 pm

    “Baroness Thatcher’s frugal wishes for her funeral will have saved the taxpayer around £800,000.”

    “On the day of Lady Thatcher’s death, her spokesman, Lord Bell, said she did not want arrangements that would be a “waste of money – somewhat in character you might think”.

    “In keeping with her directions, the former Prime Minister will not lie in state for the public to visit or have a military fly-past. “

    “Arrangements for lying in state have previously cost the public purse more than £825,000, according to the House of Commons library.”

  43. An administrative error at the Foreign Office has apparently been going around ordering embassy staff to wear mourning on The Day:

  44. doug scorgie

    10 Apr, 2013 - 8:53 pm

    Thatcher funeral:

    “FW de Klerk, the last president of apartheid South Africa, who was embraced by Thatcher as a reformer, became the first former head of state to confirm his attendance.”

  45. Would it be tasteful to turn her grave in to a public urinal?

  46. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    10 Apr, 2013 - 8:58 pm

    @ Craig :

    You cunning old sod, you obviously thought you hadn’t stirred up the company enough with your previous post, eh, so you thought you’d have another go. :)

    Anyway, just a couple of poinhts (but you are well aware of them yourself, of course. Drafting is all.

    1/. MPs and Lords CAN claim UP TO £3.750 for return travel (upon submission of tickets);

    2/. “luxury holidays” – some MPs and Lords may well be away on luxurt holidays and many others may not be. Heaven forend, but solme lmight even be in the UK! And even at home!!

    3/ Never mind what the media (all of the media?) are classifying potentail protest as. What is more meaningful and important in practical terms is the attitude and actions of the public authorities, would you not agree?

    4/. “But there is no question { protest at the funeral} is perfectly lawful. Whiff of a straw man argument here- it is not what the media might say which is important. You are right on the substance…as long as the forms that protest might take do are not illegal under sundry provisions of statutory or common law.

    5/. The reactions to your post impell me th…forgive you. :)

  47. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    10 Apr, 2013 - 9:01 pm

    Jesus, typing even worse than usual, you must have got me exercised as well.

  48. doug scorgie

    10 Apr, 2013 - 9:05 pm

    10 Apr, 2013 – 8:22 pm

    “Pdmm pdmmm pdmmpdmmmpdmmmpdmmmpdmmmmmmmmpdmmm pdm.

    Is that transliteration from the Koran?

    Is it Welsh perhaps?

  49. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    10 Apr, 2013 - 9:10 pm

    @ Tom Welsh (14h15) :

    “Sorry, Craig, I can’t take this. I have enjoyed following your blog, but I shan’t in future.”

    I sympathise and it is natural that you have no wish to stand beside the cesspit and breathe in the foul odours emanating from it. Or to observe the denizens of the cesspit writhing and slithering around.

    But it is important not to be discouraged, to stay on the blog, and to continue to show up the bad faith,absurdities, half-truths and irrelevancies which are the stock-in-trade of the Eminences. Of course, they are incorrigible and will never learn (their condition is, I’m afraid, pathological) but the normal 99% will draw their own (correct) conclusions.

  50. This must have taken Hague’s and Cameron’s mind off the day’s proceedings. What will be their next move. Stop the ‘aid’ and the military ‘assistance’?

    Syria crisis: Al-Nusra pledges allegiance to al-Qaeda

    Rebels from the al-Nusra Front waving their brigade flag on the top of a Syrian air force helicopter – photo

    The leader of the al-Nusra Front, a jihadist group fighting in Syria, has pledged allegiance to the leader of al-Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

    Abu Mohammed al-Jawlani said the group’s behaviour in Syria would not change as a result.


  51. Who was behind the “administrative error”, Cameron or Haig? Thatcher funeral: Foreign Office U-turns on mourning clothes order: Memo sent out on Tuesday night to diplomatic staff in UK and overseas withdrawn after complaints that it was inappropriate:

    A senior Foreign Office source said the memo was a mistake by an official who had added a paragraph saying that it was a requirement for staff to wear mourning clothes. He also denied that any ministers had seen the memo.

  52. Netanyahu is attending:

    The White House is understood not yet to have finalised its plans with regard to the funeral, while a spokesman for Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, said an official delegation would not be sent. Binyamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, is expected to attend, however.

  53. “A Node, I agree. I’ve often wondered about that phrase “died peacefully” and whether even if it appears so to an outsider.”

    Who wrote that rubbish sentence? Yes, and nobody corrected me either. For once I feel almost as incomprehensible as Habbabkuk, who likes my articles and blog-pieces, especially when I promote them.

  54. The whole hype is there to fool us into thinking Thatcher’s era was great for the UK. The Establishment know very well the huge corruption that underlies it. I’ve heard no mention of the Al-Yamamah arms deal, the arms-to Iraq scandal in which senior British government officials involved in the affair were described as “disgraceful” or anything else.

  55. There is nothing wrong with protesting at a public figure’s funeral, when the funeral has been, essentially, turned into a state funeral. Nothing at all. Don’t let The Heil and the other MSM idiocers fool you into thinking this is somehow ‘shameful’. It isn’t. If you don’t want protests, make the funeral private, dead easy. So were the funeral a small affair with friends and family, I’d certainly think it wrong to protest. But, it’s not.

    Thatcher, we keep being told, ‘saved’ the country. Not from avaricious privateers and banksters she didn’t; she actively encouraged them. And she encouraged every war of Blair’s, making the UK’s name essentially mud throughout the world. Protest away, if that’s your desire, she stood for her principles alright, it’s just that most of them were bad. And if in the act of protesting a funeral, you put a dent in the ideological whitewash of her tenure, good.

    I’ll be protesting at Blair’s you can be sure.

  56. Ex-CNN Reporter: I Received Orders to Manipulate News to Demonize Syria and Iran:

    PRAGUE, (SANA)- Ex-CNN reporter Amber Lyon revealed that during her work for the channel she received orders to send false news and exclude some others which the US administration did not favor with the aim to create a public opinion in favor of launching an aggression on Iran and Syria.

    Lyon was quoted by the Slovak main news website as saying that the mainstream US media outlets intentionally work to create a propaganda against Iran to garner public opinion’s support for a military invasion against it.

    She revealed that the scenario used before launching the war on Iraq is being prepared to be repeated where Iran and Syria are now being subject to constant ‘demonization’.

    The former reporter clarified that the CNN channel manipulates and fabricates news and follows selectiveness when broadcasting news, stressing that the Channel receives money from the U.S. government and other countries’ governments in exchange for news content.

  57. ‘their condition is, I’m afraid, pathological’

    Stealing my script now. ‘Pathological’ That is exactly the word I used to describe the condition of the Resident Interrogator some weeks ago following his barrage of unsavoury and persistent posting about me.

    Incidentally isn’t a reply still due to Craig from the Resident Interrogator on the Thatcher thread?

    Kempe, Habbakuk,
    British heavy industry was failing so it needed to be quickly and completely eliminated, thus ruining most of the country north of Watford. A generation later the British financial services industry failed completely so it needed to be – propped up by the taxpayer with an incredible commitment that puts ordinary taxpayers in debt for generations, thus saving London and the South East because these jobs, unlike industrial jobs, are essential to the country.


  58. Doug Scorbie

    You will be pleased to know that owing to an improvement in the weather conditions at home I will now abandon wearing my lovely, warm pink Pink Panther fleece when I wake up in the early hours of the morning. I was trying to present PP music in text form for you. Unsuccesfully. Is audio available here?

    The Thatcher years scarred my family’s life because she destroyed many basic principles of social justice. This, in turn, created magnificent opportunities for those whose hearts were bent on other ideas. Her use of the police against ordinary people led to the use of the police against innocent Muslims under Blair. The state could then create a parallel justice system, separate from what people actually did, based on false=flag, false witness and huge numbers of people were then paid to create the false witness and the media hype that went with it.

    It always seems to happen when we attack an evil regime, as Maggie did the Soviet Union, the evil characteristics of that regime get transferred to us. The UK became a spy-state. At the time of the Falklands Mrs T seemed to morph into the personality of an Argentinian dictator. Our present leaders Cameron and Hague display illegal military resolution worthy of Saddam and grinning madness worthy of Gaddafi. Miliband will morph into Assad soon.

  59. Hundreds of police on stand-by as anarchists threaten to hold mass Margaret Thatcher death ‘party’
    – Class War to hold Trafalgar Square demo on Saturday
    – Funeral will see biggest security operation since Olympics
    – ‘Ring of steel’ on three-mile route of procession

    Didn’t they have ‘a ring of steel’ for the Limp Ics? It’s all about metals. The Iron Lady. Israel’s Iron Dome. Some iron fence underground to block tunnel building into Gaza…..

  60. Lysias at 9.39 pm. Amber Lyon is telling us something most of us have worked out long ago, and I thanks her for it. I often wonder how some of the newsreaders can keep their faces straight when they have to read some of the crap on the autocue. She’ll probably never work again in MSM but we need more people like her to ‘spill the beans”. Perhaps even at this late stage NATO invasions of other Middle Eastern and African countries can be averted.

  61. No mention, as yet, of her cementing of the relationship with the US in one of the last acts of the Cold War when it is said (though not in Wikipedia!) that she gave the OK to the US to invade Grenada, a Commonwealth country, without the knowledge of the Queen. I heard the Queen was decidedly not amused (like her ancestor) and carpeted she that used the Royal ‘we’!

    Perhaps you know if this is true or not, Craig.

  62. Richard Walker

    10 Apr, 2013 - 11:57 pm

    Craig, I’m an admirer of yours, but your encouragement of these unpleasant, untrue and fatuous comments about Margaret Thatcher don’t do you any good.

    At the very least, given your brave stand against the use of torture, you should give her credit for one thing: She refused to countenance the use of evidence gathered under torture. (As you know this doctrine was reversed by Blair.)

  63. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    11 Apr, 2013 - 12:07 am

    Madame Pinochet was probably trying to avoid the legal costs of torture connected to the UK. She certainly supported it as a form of rendition.

    “When General Pinochet overthrew Salvador Allende’s democratically elected government in September 1973 the women were student activists aged 20 and 22. Ms Godoy-Navarrete was arrested shortly afterwards. Hundreds had already been killed, but she was comparatively lucky, released after being beaten and given electric shock treatment. Ms De Witt escaped the first wave of arrests.

    But with the creation of the secret police force, Dina, and their specialist torture centres came a new sweep. Ms Godoy-Navarrete was picked up in December 1974 and Ms De Witt a few months later. They ended up in two of the most notorious of the torture houses, Jose Domingo Canas and the Villa Grimaldi. Their families did not know where they were. Ms Godoy- Navarrete’s husband, Roberto, also wanted, was in hiding.

    Prisoners at both centres were subjected to electric shocks, severe beatings, suspensions from ceilings until their wrists tore, and rapes.”

    Ms Godoy-Navarrete recalled: “The torture took place daily. We would be blindfolded, strapped to beds and then it would begin. There were electric shocks administered to all over our bodies, and then there would be a rape.

  64. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    11 Apr, 2013 - 12:40 am

    Mary, at 22h25, says about me

    “Stealing my script now. ‘Pathological’ That is exactly the word I used to describe the condition of the Resident Interrogator some weeks ago following his barrage of unsavoury and persistent posting about me.”

    There must be a misunderstanding here.

    Surely the last few words should have read “…following his barrage against the unsavoury and persistent postings from me”?

  65. BrianFujisan

    11 Apr, 2013 - 2:57 am

    Richard Walker…another Troll Joins…. Stroll along Asshole

  66. Arsalan: “Would it be tasteful to turn her grave into a public urinal?”

    The Lady is not for turning – except that is, when we throw her into the Thames.

  67. Hi Richard Walker
    Don’t mind the ‘trollslaying’ its a virtual craze.
    It would be best if you could correct or at least point out some untrue comments, rather than just declaring there are too many in your view.

  68. I see a problem with protesting at people who see themselves as taking part in a patriotic funeral. Shields make a very positive impression on those who for whatever reason happen to find themselves behind them.

    Protests at how uncivil and unsociable this national icon was, over her death, could be her last contribution to class distinction.

    I think if campaigning on the day, any shields should be best left as redundant as possible.

  69. If this is true of Miliband, he is appalling. NuLabour is now Blue Labour.

    Margaret Thatcher debate mixes discord amid the tributes
    As parliament pays respects, revelations emerge that Speaker originally rejected recall of MPs and Foreign Office caused anger by issuing funeral dress code

    ‘Many Labour MPs remain furious that her death is being turned into a near state military funeral when other prime ministers, apart from Winston Churchill, were not afforded such pomp and ceremony. Labour figures that stayed away from parliament included Lord Kinnock, Lord Hattersley and Gordon Brown. It was notable that younger Labour MPs with northern constituencies absented themselves.

    It also emerged that staging a day of tributes before the funeral and requiring an expensive recall of parliament was the idea of the prime minister and involved him in a lengthy wrangle with the Speaker’s Office. John Bercow felt there was no need to recall parliament, and was taken aback by the request. His office thought the tributes could be paid next Monday in line with precedent for previous deaths of party leaders.

    At one point, Cameron had to enlist the support of Miliband to overcome the opposition, and Labour sources said they felt faced with a fait accompli and did not want to risk being seen as failing to show Thatcher due respect. In a measure of the significance of the occasion for Cameron, after speaking in the Commons he went to the bar of the Lords to listen to some of the 5 hours of speeches from a string of senior civil servants and former Conservative cabinet ministers, including Lord Waldegrave, Lord Forsyth and Lord Lamont.’

    Agent Cameron was Lamont’s bag carrier of course.

  70. The son Mark is as pathetic as ever. Operation True Blue! Indeed.

    ‘Whitehall officials proposed the presence of Argentine officials at a meeting of the committee which is organising the funeral, code-named Operation True Blue.

    The Telegraph understands that Lady Thatcher’s children, Sir Mark and Carol, believe that such protocol would be “inappropriate”.

    Sir Mark, who returned to Britain from Barbados on Tuesday, will attend a meeting of the Operation True Blue committee tomorrow to represent his mother’s interests.

    The committee, which is meeting on a daily basis, is planning to make the liberation of the Falkland Islands a central part of the ceremonial funeral on Wednesday.

  71. O/T The telling of fiction continues, as does the persecution of Bradley Manning.

    WikiLeaks: Bin Laden Raid Member Can Testify

    Prosecutors say the witness, presumably a US Navy Seal, has evidence that Osama bin Laden obtained secrets leaked by Pfc Manning.

  72. “No mention, as yet, of her cementing of the relationship with the US in one of the last acts of the Cold War when it is said (though not in Wikipedia!) that she gave the OK to the US to invade Grenada, a Commonwealth country, without the knowledge of the Queen. I heard the Queen was decidedly not amused (like her ancestor) and carpeted she that used the Royal ‘we’!

    Perhaps you know if this is true or not, Craig. ”

    It isn’t. Thatcher opposed the invasion and made this clear to Reagan. He assured her the US wasn’t planning to invade even though the invasion force was already on its way.

  73. Richard Walker

    The solidarity of the bought! Do you not think that the solidarity of the bought ( like you ) is not equally matched by a solidarity of the free?

    Do you actually think these disgusting ideas of Mrs Thatcher’s and her crew ever convinced the people of the UK of their legitimacy? Without the betrayal of the people in the last election by the Liberal Democrats these disgusting ideas would never have reappeared in this country again.

    What this tells us is that if the right wing of the Tory party combines with the other right wing forces in UK politics, including the pushy, right wing forces inside the UK Muslim community, like Baroness Warsi, then Fascism can re-surface again even in Britain. We are going to see 8 million quids worth of it on Wednesday.

  74. English Knight

    11 Apr, 2013 - 7:58 am

    “It is really surprising that, in an interview with The Jewish News, Archbishop Welby, who is scheduled to visit Israel in June, now says he should have voted against a General Synod motion that endorsed the Ecumenical Accompaniment Programme in Palestine and Israel (EAPPI), which was passed by the Synod last year (News, 29 June 2012, Synod, 13 July 2012”

    Before and after the leadership vote, you gotta be a step ahead of the goyim. Cryptos, cryptos everywhere and not a drop of kedem to drink in The Anglican Church!!

  75. @Kempe

    Thanks … surprised that Reagan had the guts to take any duplicitous decision by himself but it wasn’t him all by himself, was it? Who knows where rumours come from? As if there weren’t enough reasons to despise her politics and policies without making one up!

  76. My pleasure. I thought at the time that Reagan had seen what the Falklands war had done for Thatcher’s popularity and invaded Grenada with the expectation that it would do the same for him.

  77. Read this, preferably with all the lights on and a crucifix handy –

    …to understand the perfect continuity between Reagan’s policies and advisors and Bush 43’s.
    This is also illuminating:

    Both presidents were the abject tools of a process they didn’t understand.

  78. A quick Google came up with this:

    Wouldn’t normally be my first website of reference for historical questions but what the heck!

    It does confirm that the administration needed something that they could spin for all that it was worth before the ’84 election.

    Poor little Grenada served their needs.

  79. Devil’s advocate here. From beyond the grave, this.

  80. @komodo

    Thanks for the links.

    With regard to the link to Thatcher’s memoirs I think I’d take her at her word … I can’t see that she had anything to gain by supporting the invasion; anti-Communist rhetoric and sentiment always went down so much better with an American audience when the bogeymen were on their own doorstep.

  81. The Guardian (Martin Kettle) points out how W.E.Gladstone’s funeral was conducted in 1898: a civil affair at the height of empire. A stark contrast to the bombastic militarism of our own day.

    Perhaps Mrs Thatcher’s funeral is a symbol of our own decline: the weaker we become the more exaggerated our public display of power.

  82. Fascism done properly wirks for the good of people.

    Although some times unholy racist to quote a phrse from a “Great.”

    David Benedictus; It Stops.

    “Tigger,” said Rabbit severely. “what we have to consider here is the Greater Good of the Greater Number. Give me your pebble.

    Fascism achieves and does not be unhumanitarian just reasonable.

    “For the next few days, while the friends and relations dig a ditch running down hill from the well to Eeyore’s Gloomy Place, enough water was collected to run down the ditch and fill Eeyore’s tin trunk to the brim.

  83. Five Reasons For Parading The Corpse:

    1. Message to the Argies, in the absence of credible firepower or international support.
    2. Big tourist puller, in the absence of any local enthusiasm for spending money you haven’t got on stuff you don’t need in Oxford Street.
    3. Polish the monetarist turd by associating it with a less dismal arsehole than Cameron’s.
    4. Distract the public from at least the next four major governmental disasters. Five, if you include “Iain Duncan” (George) Smith.
    5. Opportunity to refine police tactics for dealing with public expressions of displeasure with the government, which are inevitable as we* slide into bankruptcy.

    * very broadly speaking

    And I would still like to know why any civilian is supposed to merit military honours.

  84. Ever been had?

    I suppose Thatcher knew absolutely nothing at all about the use of the airport in Barbados by the US for refuelling and onward flights to Grenada!

    ‘But one of the retired airport manager’s most enduring memories is his sleepless night of October 24, 1983, the eve of the Grenada intervention by United States forces.

    “Adams called me at home and told me he wanted me to go to the airport and take complete charge of the operations; it must be kept completely confidential . . . He said he could not give details, but it could be between five and eight thousand military personnel passing through the airport in the morning”.

    Sworn to secrecy, he was forced to remain tight-lipped, even when concerned air traffic controllers were asking what was going on when a mysterious plane popped up on their radar. It was the monitoring aircraft in advance of the Grenada intervention operation.

    “Suddenly all hell broke loose and aircraft started calling ‘Air Force this, Air Force that’ all descending on Grantley Adams International Airport, the staging point for the Grenada operation. It was just before daybreak on the morning of October 25, 1983, when the world heard a frantic voice on the Grenada airwaves announcing “United States Forces are invading Grenada”.

    The whole experience remains deeply etched in Callender’s memory. It tested his ability and afforded the opportunity to rub shoulders with some of the best known names in the United States armed forces like Brigadier General Robert Patterson. Some time later, when he was introduced to United States General Norman Schwartzkopf, deputy commander of United States Forces in the Grenada intervention, Callender was surprised when Schwartzkopf congratulated him on his “outstanding role” in Grantley Adams International Airport’s management of the Grenada operation.

    The name of Stormin Norman yet surfaces again.

    ‘At 12:30 am Tuesday October 25, on the morning of the invasion, Thatcher sent a message to Reagan: “This action will be seen as intervention by a Western country in the internal affairs of a small independent nation, however unattractive its regime. I ask you to consider this in the context of our wider East/West relations and of the fact that we will be having in the next few days to present to our Parliament and people the siting of Cruise missiles in this country. I must ask you to think most carefully about these points. I cannot conceal that I am deeply disturbed by your latest communication. You asked for my advice. I have set it out and hope that even at this late stage you will take it into account before events are irrevocable.”[29][30] (The full text remains classified.)’

    Of course the text remains classified.

    Reminder: Governments and politicians NEVER lie. :)

  85. lysias
    10 Apr, 2013 – 9:39 pm

    Yes Lysias and the same is true of our “free press” in the UK especially the BBC

  86. The show next Wednesday has all the makings of a North Korean military parade. (I almost called it a funeral).

  87. Mary
    10 Apr, 2013 – 10:40 pm

    “Funeral will see biggest security operation since Olympics”
    ‘Ring of steel’ on three-mile route of procession”

    I wonder if they will have surface-to-air missile sites installed?

  88. £10,000,000 for the funeral? Surely value for money in these straitened times!
    Meantime up here in Scotland, multi millionaire Ian Taylor, who has donated £500,000 to the No campaign on Scottish independence, has taken legal action against a pro indy blog for pointing out that Vitol, the company of which he is CEO, has been involved in some dodgy deals involving large amounts of lolly.
    The blog has been closed down as a result. Democracy- UK style.

  89. Richard Wanker
    10 Apr, 2013 – 11:57 pm

    “Craig, I’m an admirer of yours, but your encouragement of these unpleasant, untrue and fatuous comments about Margaret Thatcher don’t do you any good.”

    Please detail the untrue and fatuous comments you refer to.

  90. Just like the undead, nobody can keep this child of Thatcher’s down.

    Labour must search for answers and not merely aspire to be a repository for people’s anger

    The centre has not shifted to the left, says Tony Blair. Labour must resist the easy option of tying itself to those forces whose anti-Tory shouts are loudest.

    1.400 more of his ‘words’.

    A nice song for him.
    Don’t drink the water – Justin Cross.

    I know of sin by the things momma prayed
    I know of heaven by the line at its gate
    I know of truth and America’s way
    Come drink the water if you want to be saved

    Don’t drink the water if it’s not from my stream
    It’s all still water if it’s not flowing free
    Don’t drink the water at the watering hole
    If you ain’t got money, it can’t save your soul

    All God’s people said amen

    It’s not a sin if it can’t make me cry
    He’s not the devil unless there’s fire in his eyes
    It ain’t the ghost if it don’t speak in tongue
    It’s not a victory ’till the battles been won

    Nobody prays unless they lose a son
    Don’t believe in God till a war’s to be won
    I know of truth by the lies I’ve been told
    The biggest one is that we’re not getting old

    I know of sin by the things momma prayed
    I know of heaven by the line at it’s gate
    Heard of a kingdom that’s not far away
    Come drink the water if you want to be saved

  91. David McCann. Do you have a link please to the original pro indy blog piece?

  92. If anyone wants to know more about the Ian Taylor legal shutdown of here are some links posted by:

    Alasdair Martin. “I see some people are debating the National Collective issue. Here are some links from the article in question, all are from well known mainstream news organisations and all refer either to Ian Taylor or Vitol, the company of which he is CEO.

    Remember, I’m not alleging anything, just sharing some links to mainstream news websites.

    “The other senior politician being dragged into the action is the Tory, Alan Duncan, whom Moussavi intends to call as a witness. Duncan, former Tory vice-chairman and a supporter of Michael Portillo, was a paid consultant to Vitol in the early 1990s. He worked with Vitol’s president, Ian Taylor, at Shell and remains a close friend. ”

    “Vitol, which had $114 billion of revenue in 2006, will pay restitution of $13 million to Iraq and $4.5 million to cover the cost of prosecution, Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau said in a statement.

    Vitol is one of the world’s largest independent physical oil trading companies. It admitted to paying $13 million in kickbacks to Iraqi officials under Saddam Hussein to win oil supply contracts, and the plea ended the New York investigation.”

    ” The Geneva-based company, which has offices in London, is thought to have operated an ‘employee benefit trust’ (EBT) for more than a decade.

    Such schemes, which were used by more than 2,000 companies, allowed employees to avoid paying income tax and companies to avoid national insurance contributions. ”

    “Ian Taylor and wife: Ian Taylor is the president and chief executive of the world’s largest oil trader Vitol. He has been involved in the oil business for more than 30 years. Mr Taylor has donated £555,100 to the party since June 2006.” –

    see also the guardian for general details of the controversy –

    GOVERNMENT ADMITS ALAN DUNCAN’S LINKS TO COMPANY IN ‘LIBYAN OIL CELL’ [see article for links to Taylor and Vitol]
    “It is said to have played a discreet but crucial role in the campaign in Libya by helping to enforce the sanctions regime to prevent Gaddafi importing and exporting oil while allowing oil to reach the rebels in the east. That oil came via one company, Vitol.

    Duncan, a former oil trader and multi-millionaire, has had a 30-year friendship with the managing director of Vitol, Ian Taylor, at one point operating as a consultant to the company and as a non-executive director to a subsidiary firm. Taylor has also been a Tory donor, declared on Duncan’s parliamentary register of interests.”

    “Mr Taylor, 55, is the president and group chief executive of the Swiss multinational Vitol, the third biggest oil trading company in the world with revenues of £186billion last year. He personally donated £466,000 to the Tories under David Cameron.

    Mr Taylor is a close friend of Alan Duncan, who in opposition received tens of thousands of pounds from Mr Taylor via donations to the Tories.

    Mr Duncan had further links with Vitol by serving as a non-executive director of Arawak Energy, an off-shoot of Vitol, before he was a minister.

    Mr Taylor, from a Scottish family, went to the private King’s School, Macclesfield, and studied politics, philosophy and economics at Oxford. After a stint at Shell, which he joined after graduating, he joined Vitol in 1985.

    Vitol is no stranger to controversy. Last year after it was revealed that the company was supplying oil to the rebels in Libya ‘largely without upfront payments’ in the hope of gaining oil deals later.

    In 2007, the firm pleaded guilty to paying money in violation of the UN’s oil for food programme into accounts it knew were controlled by the Iraqi Government’s State Oil Marketing Organisation during Saddam Hussein’s presidency. It paid US$13m to the Iraqi people by way of restitution and US$4.5m to the New York District Attorney in lieu of fines. The firm is also reported to have paid $1million to the notorious Serbian war criminal Arkan to act as a fixer on a business deal in the 1990s.”

    “The International Development minister has privately boasted that the ‘Duncan plan’ helped to topple Gaddafi.

    But he faces criticism over his links to Vitol and Mr Taylor who has given at least £200,000 to the Conservatives, some of which was used to pay for Mr Duncan’s secretary in 2008. The top Tory has also served as a non-executive director of Arawak Energy, an off-shoot of Vitol before he was a minister.”

    “Privately-held Vitol SA is led by its long-time CEO Ian Taylor, a Briton. Taylor was among leading donors to Britain’s ruling Conservative Party named in March by the Prime Minister’s office as having dined with David Cameron at his private apartment in Downing Street amid the fall-out from a “cash for access” party funding scandal. Britain is a vociferous critic of Tehran’s nuclear programme and a leading advocate of the EU sanctions.”

    “The company, run by Ian Taylor, admitted it had allowed its Bahraini subsidiary to buy a cargo of fuel oil of Iranian origin in July – after the EU had imposed sanctions on Iranian oil trades. “”

  93. Nice piece from Ruth Michaelson. Short and to the point.

    The Hangover Takes Hold
    Thatcher’s Legacy and British Identity

    The news of Margaret Thatcher’s death earlier this week was hardly a shock; given her age as well as the ability of social media to conduct miniature dress rehearsals of the event almost once a year since the creation of Twitter. As journalists, economists and politicians queue up to eulogise the Iron Lady, no one doubts her impact, especially as her ideology is still very much alive and kicking in Britain today.

    Her death brought a certain catharsis for those on the Left, despite her frail physical and mental state meaning that she was unlikely to be making any public speeches or privatising anything from her bedside in London’s Ritz hotel. This outpouring of relief seemed strange at first, not withstanding that Britain’s current Conservative government is making sure that they pick up where Thatcher left off by ensuring that the poorest in society pick up the slack left by the richest. If anything, her death was a reminder that there is little to celebrate, given both the axe-wielding power of the Conservatives and the total lack of any coherent or believable opposition.

    The success, if you can truly call it that, of Thatcherite ideology was to reach beyond politics, especially given its ability to infect the Labour Party at its core, and to change the mentality of British citizens. As Russell Brand writes in the Guardian on the 10th April, “what is more troubling is my inability to ascertain where my own selfishness ends and her neo-liberal inculcation begins…If you behave like there’s no such thing as society, in the end there isn’t.”

    Thatcher re-defined what Britain stood for- self-serving and bullishly aggressive, both inside and out. We are still trying to decide if this is really us: are we people who marched in numbers against the invasion of Iraq in 2003 (something that might never have happened without the US-UK relations forged by Thatcher) or are we the nation who grudgingly accepted the financial and moral consequences of the war as they cosied up to George W.Bush’s foreign policy?

    Are we a nation who rejects the current government’s besieging of public services, or are we the people who turn their heads to focus on the concocted issues of immigration in the hope that will somehow keep the UK afloat? Most importantly: are we a country that sees value in the existence of community or are we people who will allow the riots that happened across England in 2011 to become a sadly inevitable occurrence?

    Nothing showed the divisions in British identity better than the media gulf between the BBC’s coverage immediately following Thatcher’s death and the outpouring that happened via social media. Despite the BBC’s recent promises to increase its coverage from the North of England, the cameras bounced between interviews with elderly former constituents in Finchley, North London and the London studio, ensuring that criticism of the effects of Thatcher’s policy was extremely limited. Meanwhile, across Twitter and Facebook, residents from the towns and communities that Thatcherite policy decimated, posted pictures and videos of pubs full of revellers, singing songs to express the outpouring of relief. In effect, what the residents of the UK were doing on Monday evening was competing to grasp this moment as their own- seeing who could claim the moral high ground, and in the process questioning their own identities.

    As the hangovers took hold and plans for a funeral, whose cost to the UK taxpayer is still unknown (some estimates have put it as high as £8-10 million), are unveiled, it is clear that this moment presents an opportunity. Thatcher’s death provides a moment for the residents of the United Kingdom to indulge in their favourite pastime, that being nostalgia with just a hint of self-analysis, and to truly decide if we want to allow her to define us. The pushback against David Cameron’s repulsive “Big Society” idea provides some hope, but the fight goes beyond a need to protest. This is, in its purest sense, a battle for hearts and minds- a fight that decides whether Thatcher’s “no such thing as society” adage is the prism by which we can choose to see society. In the process perhaps there even a chance to finally answer the question that Thatcherite ideology has caused us to ask ourselves while plagued with doubt: is there such a thing as British identity?

    Her Twitter page makes a good read too.

    Ruth Michaelson ‏@_Ms_R 1h
    Nothing like a good laugh RT@guardiannews Tony Blair warns Labour could be reduced to a protest party as cuts bite

  94. Should have read: “If anyone wants to know more about the Ian Taylor legal shutdown of the National Collective’s Media Watch . . .”

  95. @Mary

    Didn’t know that the rest of the communique remained classified … isn’t it supposed to be thirty years before it is declassified? October 2013? Suppose not. They’ll find some pretext to keep it quiet a bit longer.

    Having said that I still don’t see what she hoped to gain from it.

    Politicians work in mysterious ways …

  96. The link is in my earlier post, but the site is down pending legal action. However there may be a cached version somewhere.

  97. @Mary

    Re the Ruth Michaelson piece … she got one thing very wrong.

    She kept using the word ‘British’when she meant ‘English’ (and South at that!)

  98. A little more on Ian Taylor.

    The word VITOL brings a shudder. Because it reminds me of VIROL, a spoonful of which we were dosed daily after the war. It was some sort of malt extract + vitamins. Sticky brown stuff and horrible.

    Wonder what Thatcher’s war experience was like? She would have been 14 when it started. I hope Grocer Roberts did not operate any black market tricks! The very idea! Where we lived on the South Coast, the known rich were observed leaving the butcher’s and fishmonger’s with largish packages under their arms. The rest had to have the coupons cut out from the ration books.

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