The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Looking for arrests in romania, there was a pretty colourful arrest last week for a violent gang and its leader during a football game when special police stormed the field. Could be unrelated but perhaps they were talking?
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/masked-armed-romanian-special-forces-halt-match-arrest-192541296.html
http://thenextfootballsuperstar.com/thenextfemalesoccersuperstar/2013/06/13/masked-and-armed-romanian-special-forces-halt-match-to-arrest-player/
http://www.insideworldsoccer.com/2013/06/romanian-riot-police-halt-football-game-arrest-player.html
The linked clip in the second link with the stabbing in that hospital is awesome. This clip was taken from the hospitals surveillance cams.
Could be totally unrelated but this is the latest arrest in romania reported by local media.
James
24 Jun, 2013 – 1:24 am All the things I included are in the public domain and have been published in the past. But I quite agree with you, this is no guarantee they are kosher just that they have not been officially challenged or corrected by official channels as you might expect if they knew them to be false. I suppose if I was well organised and very computer savvy I would have a file of index linked references. Instead I’m afraid I just rely on my memory. I was challenged back along when i suggested reports spoke of the SUV passing WBM in both directions. I think that has now been accepted by everyone. The green SUV and motor bike I shall have to leave to you if you think it hasn’t been reported and discussed almost ad nauseum before.
What is said is not necessarily true. What is reported is not necessarily true. The police and governments know far more than we do. There are a limited number of people in the world who know who did it and why. The killers are still at large. Governments have a proven track record of conspiracy and killing as part of their secret operations. This does not prove or even necessarily suggest that happened here. Neither is it an impossibility. We, the outsiders, can only go on what is said or shown as reported by the media. However on the basis of this much can be questioned and I hope the public do not let it rest on these boards with the hope that eventually the press will eventually catch up and start posing the same questions. Who knows there might be innocent explanations to all the inconsistencies we have identified?
BB, am I right in remembering that Kadhim had a friend from Rumania, ?
I have tried to find old reports about his nursing home , I’m almost sure apart from his Iraqi or Moroccan carer, he had a Romanian friend or nurse/contact.
Katie
I have no memory regarding a romanian nurse.
There were hints regarding the nigerian scammer having contacts to romania, though.
Also there was a discussion regarding an Omar “Molly” at MZT back in November 2012.
There were links that he had Romanian contacts and that he would bring romanian girls to Tunesia. Omar “Molly” was mentioned in regards to Laurent Schutz.
Perhaps it would be wise to study the “romania” search hits in the MZT al hilli blog a bit closer now.
How long can Zaid be held without charges?
Will he make a deal, or did he already “pre-arrange” something when his arrest was pre-arranged?
Like so many things in this case, the latest news is hard to believe. Patsy or conspirator? He won’t be able to talk to the media from custody, will he?
When you do some searching on the internet, things like the DEA, Amnesty International, and so on come up in relation to Turkish terrorists and Romania. I chose this example because it mentions the “Balkans”. Whatever happened to that Balkan man in the campground? This article is just one of many interesting ones:
http://www.balkanalysis.com/romania/2011/12/31/dea-and-multi-national-police-operations-highlight-narcotics-terrorism-and-role-of-the-balkans/
I keep coming back to the question…..would Zaid have taken out a contract to have three family members killed, his niece injured & not mentioned there were two children ?
Zaid arrested ! Not charged as yet however.
What is the timescale on arrests and charges in UK Law ?
It’s some doing to arrange a murder….all the way off in France.
Was SAH’s holiday slightly “on the spur of the moment” ? It couldn’t have been that “of the moment”, he took his mother in law along. Bad back and all that driving ? The youngest daughter due to start school for the first time…misses her “first day” ?
And (it is alleged) his bro organizes a hitman (I presume) to do the deed in France. That’s some organizing.
Wonder what it was SAH that SAH was doing over in France ?
And were did the 800K come from ? Papa Al Hilli ?
“The police can hold you for up to 24 hours before they have to charge you with a crime or release you.
They can apply to hold you for up to 36 or 96 hours if you’re suspected of a serious crime, eg murder.
If you’re arrested under the Terrorism Act, you can be held without charge for up to 14 days.”
Source: https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights/when-youre-arrested
Does anyone remember this, found on Google , I can’t find it here the search facility is so unhelpful:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/…al-hillis/comment-page-77/
Sep 29, 2012 – Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and …. The Luger came from a “stay behind” depot hidden in the Col d’Ire region since WW2. ….. Further calls to Romania from Fadwa al Saffar – including from the … “the telephone calls made by Zaid” AND “Mrs Al Hilli’s sister” !
As far as I can see, The Al Hilli Conundrum only has 34 pages .
Bleb
So, we’ll know something in “a day”.
Or they’ll have to apply to the court to hold for longer.
If it goes on longer…then there are other “issues”.
Tim V 3;27PM. I appreciate the effort to appraise me of your thoughts, ethiquette or not (and I understand the concerns. Am sure you noticed how careful I am to keep things properly sorted). The other site crashed BTW and was having problems earlier, I noticed – perhaps that was the problem?
As to the substance of your comment, more later. Busy busy now…..
katie, 6:53 PM – that’s a good point about Zaid. He would certainly know there are two children whose inheritance rights will precede his by a mile.
In addition, to my mind, it just doesn’t add up that Zaid would hire a hit man to take out an entire family. On psychological grounds – money disputes is one thing, but killing a whole family is another. There may have been lots of resentment and ill-feeling between the brothers. But that does not add up to enough hatred to off all of them.
As much as EM would like for this scenario to stand up, it won’t.the news now are that the arrest was because Zaid apparently refused to talk to the french on his own. So the british apparently acted upon the french request to make him available for questioning.
Whatever.
Marlin
24 Jun, 2013 – 9:56 pm – thanks Marlin. U may have seen I floated the idea that ZAH was arrested by the British as a means of protecting him in fact. Normally if another country want to arrest a national, it makes representations determined by treaty conditions that vary. Sometimes no extradition arrangements are in place. Assange and the Swedes is a case in point. Presumably France could have done this if it wanted to and had hard evidence. I don’t know how a British arrest would affect the process. I assume although the Surrey Police “are supporting the French investigation” it would be the other way around with a British citizen in British custody. Apart of anything else PACE applies. We shall just have to wait and see if anything comes of this. He’s been arrested on suspicion but as yet not charged with anything, which he will have to be if they want to keep him in custody.
Timmy.
To my knowledge…. “local” police effect an arrest on request. It would depend on where the “warrant” was is issued.
Interpol operate slightly differently of course.
International Arrest Warrants differ.
I guess “Joint Forces” most likely operate differently again.
I’m not sure PACE would really apply (it doesn’t in Scotland).
The request may have come from France OR maybe part of the “collective operation”. I’m not sure how PACE applies in that case.
The “crime” took place in France. Therefore the trial would be (most likely) a French affair…and subject to those rules/laws.
Latest news:
Zaid was just arrested because he did not appear to a scheduled hearing on June 21st
he isnt in custody as a suspect but as a witness who did not attend a scheduled police hearing. It was Zaid’s fault for not coming to the police station on june 21st. Why he did not come we dont know. However, it is irrational for not attending AND still living in his house. He must have known that an arrest would be an option then. Either leave the country and hide (but he didnt) or else go to that hearing. The arrest was either deliberately planned by Zaid or he was just stupid and ignorant.
Surrey Police statement here:
http://www.surrey.police.uk/news/news-stories/full-news-story/article/5184/man-arrested-in-connection-with-annecy-murder-investigation
States: “… Detectives investigating the deaths of four people near Annecy, southern France in September last year have this morning (24 June 2013) arrested a man on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder. …” (My emphasis)
@Bluebird
The report I have seen says it was an interview in France with the French Police that Zaid missed on 21st June.
“… He [Maillaud] said Zaid al-Hilli was called in for questioning on 21 June in France, but failed to show up.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/24/brother-arrest-alps-murders-al-hilli
Can Zaid be charged with failing to appear (by the U.K. or France)? What would happen to him if he were to be released with the eyes of the world on him yet again? Failure to appear permanently? Can he be transported to France for questioning without being charged first in the U.K.? Would an extradition request be necessary? Will he submit to questioning voluntarily, or has he lawyered up?
The games changes if a person has been arrested under the anti-terrorism laws. So if Zaid has not been released and not charged within 24 hours, and there is no indication that he is co-operating, it might be reasonable to assume that those special rules are behind the arrest.
DIY Rendition – Extraordinary!
So let me get this straight, Maillaud appears on UK television and states that he would have banged Zaid up on day one.
Then the French expect Zaid to take time off work and travel to France at his own expense to be interrogated?
Now this seems legally dubious to me, given that this is supposedly a joint investigation (enquete) then Surrey Police could conduct the interview in place of the French.
What is going on?
Good In Parts, your questions are good in entirety.
On another front, why would Romania be getting friendly with Iraq?
http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2012/11/state6603.htm
Q
I do not know the specific rules of the UK.
However, usually, if you fail to attend a polive hearing or a court hearing they have a right to arrest you for that hearing. The arrest will take as long as the time of the questioning would take. There is no need for charging him for something other than failing to attend that appointment.. The arrest can last days or even weeks, as long as it takes police questioning him.
@Q
Is he “lawyered up”. No idea…but it’s FANATASTIC term.
I’ve heard the term “helping police with their enquiries”, but I never knew you could be arrested for “not attending a police interview”. I suppose it’s logical really.
“If you’re being asked to go voluntarily, you can refuse. But the police may then decide to arrest you, in which case you have to go”.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/advice/factfile_az/police_basics
Like Bleb posted “arrested a man on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder”. That’s different to “arrested for not attending a schedule police interview”.
Again “confusion reigns supreme” again !
So what now ?
Charged (with conspiracy to commit murder).
Cautioned for that offence (failure to attend an schedule meeting with the police ?)
Or released ?
Or extradition to France.
Surely Eric’s statement would cause problems with that. Whilst the crime would be under French law, the arrest was made under English Law ?
He must (as Q says) be “lawyered up” !
I’ll repeat this & ask, how come the police knew about these phone calls in September last year, yet are still saying they are trying to trace the calls ?
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/…al-hillis/comment-page-77/
Sep 29, 2012 – Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and …. The Luger came from a “stay behind” depot hidden in the Col d’Ire region since WW2. ….. Further calls to Romania from Fadwa al Saffar – including from the … “the telephone calls made by Zaid” AND “Mrs Al Hilli’s sister”
As there seems to be some mystery around this arrest, has anyone thought that Zaid may have been arrested for his own safety ?
James.
‘The European Arrest Warrant (EAW) is an arrest warrant valid throughout all member states of the European Union (EU). Once issued, it requires another member state to arrest and transfer a criminal suspect or sentenced person to the issuing state so that the person can be put on trial or complete a detention period.’
Katie
That is a possibility. Lets wait and see for news.
One thing is for sure: He wasnt the killer. So then, if he was involved, then we should hear of another arrest soon, except if the killer would be already dead, too …
Romania and Mollier
http://www.highrec.com/p/Aurelie+Mollier
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/aurelie-mollier/22/646/721?_mSplash=1
Could be off topic but could also fit quite well. Look at her linkedin contacts!!
I am still not convinced that SM was a victim, and if so, i am not so convinced that he was a random victim.
That is the company for Ms. AURELIE MOLLIER was a manager until feb. 2013 (and before) in Romania. Since february 2013 she is back in france still working for ERAI. Wouldnt ERAI perfectly fit into our story? Aviation, defence, military, counterfeit products, ….
http://www.erai.com/
ERAI, Inc. is a privately held global information services organization that monitors, investigates and reports issues affecting the global semiconductor supply chain. Since 1995, ERAI tools and services have assisted buyers and sellers from all sectors of the supply chain in preventing loss by mitigating risk in the material purchasing process. Our unique service enables companies to perform industry specific risk mitigation on suspect counterfeit, high-risk and non-conforming parts, as well as, problematic vendors and customers.As the world’s largest database of non-conforming material, ERAI is leading the fight against the sale of counterfeit and high-risk components and promoting a higher level of awareness via data-sharing, education, training and networking. The evolving global marketplace has made ERAI a necessary service for anyone involved in the electronic supply chain.
http://www.supplymanagement.com/news/2010/rolls-royce-confirms-faulty-part-caused-qantas-flight-explosion/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NMAA/message/37901
There we have “Romanian” Ms. Aurelie Mollier’s company involved and Qantas technicians (Ali al Hilli) and airbus (Saad al Hilli) and perhaps Boeing (Martin) in a counterfeit product scandal of the aviation industry that did cost airbus probably hundreds of millions. Just a guess, perhaps not related …..