The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Insightful as ever as ever BB. @ Bluebird
10 Jul, 2013 – 12:19 pm. The Germans and their SIS have remained very quiet over this one other than information indicating the £800 000 was from SH immediately picked up and run with by EM.
Some well informed commentators, take the view that Germany has taken a leading role in the spy game ever since the Third Reich and subsequent GDR Stazi including infiltration at the highest levels or the CIA and MI6. Rather akin to the relationship between MI6 and UDA, the links between BND and fascist/gladio elements post war, to maintain public fear of Soviet threat, are pretty well established.
Could the death of SM be a myth to cover the actions of a killer. Given the nature of this incident I wouldn’t say it was an impossibility but think its rather unlikely given his personal circumstances. It’s worth bearing in mind though.
Gladio Stay behind:
Luxembourg president Juncker had to resign due to his involvement in Luxembourg secret service SREL conspiracy and surveillance.
A state attorney enrolled the 1980tees Luxembourg terror bombings. SREL, MI6 and CIA were not amused and they suggested to submit paedophilia to that “inconvenient” state attorney to get rid of him. There was a “honeytrap” prepared for him during his Thailand holidays, however, he was clever enough to avoid it. Today this is at court and surveillance and crimes of SREL and Gladio/stay behind activities are being revealed to the public, including the fact that SREL made illegal business in luxury car dealing with cars paid by tax payers.
Juncker is the first “victim”.
http://www.chronicle.lu/categoriesluxembourgathome/item/2279-bommeleer-trial-in-early-stages
Link to the above post.
Today Juncker resigned due to the allegations at court and there will be new elections.
Gladio/stay behind organised terror plots against the own population, they killed their own people using local secret service agents. They are still doing that. Only time will tell. It took 30 years from the bombings to the truth.
So then, 9/11/2031 will be another interesting date ….
What did Eric say? Itll take 10 years? WRONG! Itll take 30 years for the truth coming out.
I hope Marilyn, MZT, as some of you say will resurrect after the re-fit.
Please consider this – isn’t it better that as many blogs, internet sites, newspapers keep this story alive, be it with different ideas, keeping the murders in the public arena, if only for all those that will live with this for the rest of their days …. I refer to the FIVE children that no longer have a father.
Should a tragedy of such proportions strike you, you will want anwsers and you won’t give a fiddlers f*** where they come from.
We must keep the story alive.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9608150/British-family-pictured-smiling-minutes-before-Alps-shooting.html
Really weird but this news story has just popped into my inbox by google alert system and yet it seems to be dated last October.
On another topic, I was at the dentist’s( in Putney oddly!) today and he loves to chat away while one is completely unable to respond. Anyway, he mentioned out of the blue that he had been using zirconium recently in the line of his dentistry work! I immediately thought I must report back to you guys or is it common knowledge that dentists use this stuff?
Jennywren
Zirconium crowns
http://zirconiumcrowns.com/
But please dont tell me that iqbal met sylvain for getting a bit of zirconium for repair of the dental zirconium crown of her mother. Because then i wouldnt believe you ….
@Lynda 4:46PM I, for one, am all with you on keeping the story alive, by however many blogs care to take it up.
My own time on MZT was. I thought, well spent, and not insignificantly, brought on fits of inspiration (for which I am ever grateful). As long as the purpose is a shared one by at least most a group, ie, not let the Chevaline case go to oblivion, aired disagreements are all in a day’s work, as far as I’m concerned. To me, letting conflicting viewpoints battle it out, is just as well. I only become disenchanted when i start suspecting that the motives are not pure. hence my issues with copyrighting summaries of facts – however well put together. Either we do what we do for the greater good (cf. keep the case front and center, in the interest of truth), or we don’t. the reason I draw a line in the sand there is because I have seen to many cases where undercurrents and secret agendas – not known or shared by all – ended up undermining the original purpose of the undertaking.
So, for me, it’s all about the intent. Where i have no reason to believe diverging intents, I can put up with much raucus, and can tolerate all kind of notions and debate styles.
I can’t speak for Tim V, of course, who just doesn’t take it lightly when logic is met with ridicule or is dismissed with off-the-cuff remarks. On this blog he has had his run of debates and engaged in endless bouts with any number of commenters. Possibly his direct style is taken as an affront by some. But to me that’s just a side-effect for thinking things through. Others may not care for too much directness, especially delivered right off the bat, without personal qualifiers to “soften the blow”. some may just see it as stepping beyond some unspoken bounds. Works fine for me, because i am used to all-out debates and make allowances for those who want to get to the point as quickly and efficiently as possible (I don’t do that, obviously. Something that no doubt causes my best works to remain unread, alas…). I assure you Tim V had brutally dissected one of my own favorite “theories” – the [in]famous “extraction” (which is not even my own – straw44berry and Feret were way ahead of me on that, and before them Anders7777, who is no longer among the living, unfortunately). And was happy to do it several times over (though I believe I scored a few hits for my side). But my approach was to take note of said dissection, adjust my probability estimates and, since these remained well above zero (ie, not in the improbable category), filed the theory away under “can’t be ruled out”, with sub-heading “tantalizing”. All suitably normalized due to some wishful thinking on my part.
You should have also seen Tim V and james go at each other over English police practices in connection with the Woolwich case. Off topic? absolutely. Exasperation in action? may be. But they managed to reach a modus vivandi just fine, and who’s to complain, if we got to actually learnt something?.
Anyways, as you already know (assuming you are THE Lynda) couch (chair?) psychologizing of groups – at length (ouch!) – is one of my hobby horses. mercifully, here people put up with it, since they are kindness incarnate. For which they will all go to heaven – when the time comes – guaranteed.
In closing, Lynda, do feel free to stick around , at least until such times as the web site repairs are completed (the author of this blog, Craig, has his own, urgent repairs going on, those on his physical rather than cyber being, for which we all wish him the best recovery possible. He has many fans and well wishers, being a rather brave soul).
Couldn’t have put it better myself (!!!!!) Marlin
10 Jul, 2013 – 7:43 pm LOL Thank you for bearing with my multiple faults and indiscretions.
jennywren, regarding that google alert –
Sounds similar to what Google provided Tim V in his search – an old link showing up near the top, as if it was something new.
What we are seeing, I believe, is evidence of some recent tweaks to Google’s search engine that is going ever further in an attempt to match the searcher’s known interests. IOW, there will be increasing deviations from chronological and neutral subject matter organization.
In a way, Google is in the process of revamping the search engine from the very qualities that made Google such a giant in the first place. At the same time, it is putting in place tracking algorithms to more closely mirror the assumed (searcher’s) focus of interest. So an old link pops up out of the blue, right on top, or near the top, whereas far more recent links are relegated to page 2 or lower.
I think that once the word gets out that this is what’s happening (and I believe we are seeing just the beginning of this process) the vaunted search engine’s dominance will start to crack.
There’s an article today in The Guardian about Duck Duck Go’s sizeable increase in user volume – engendered, no doubt by NSA’s revelations. Duck Duck Go does not track and I noticed in running some sample searches huge differences between results of search on this vs. Google.
Elsewhere i read about several other new start ups rushing in to cash on the public’s interest in encrypted and non tracking technology. people apparently are willing to deviate from the “free’ model of e mail boxes and online content in return for privacy. We’ll just have to wait and see where it all goes.
Must be the effect of Allegri’s Miserere.
No problem, Tim V. Glad to oblige.
let’s see if I can get the lucky number of 16,000!
Darn Tim V, you just had to beat me to it!!
You ARE the 16,000 th comment.
With ref. to “Jennywren
10 Jul, 2013 – 5:53 pm” post of Peter Allen’s Telegraph Paris 6:00AM BST 15 Oct 2012 article.
“A British family was pictured “smiling and relaxed” just 33 minutes before a former RAF serviceman reported three of them murdered in the French Alps, it emerged today.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9608150/British-family-pictured-smiling-minutes-before-Alps-shooting.html
I’ll let you all work out the implications of that one. NB this is about six weeks after the event so the investigators must have.
Ha Ha Really? Purely accidental I assure you. Do I win an antique Luger PO8? (Sorry – bad taste)
Tim V, you didn’t finish your sentence.
Interesting items reported in this telegeaph 15 october article (6 weeks after the murder!):
1. Exact time of the photo given – pinned down several times over at 3:15PM, and 33 minutes BEFORE the call. Location at Arnand.
2. Ex RAF man WBM is reported to have made the call – more than a month AFTER WBM said, no, he didn’t.
3. Green 4×4 speeding TOWARDS the scene, as reported by WBM – MAY HAVE been forestry, but no confirmation.
4. Mollier reported as OVERTAKING WBM riding on his bike.
5. No mention of motorcycle;
6. No mention of PD.
Yes, things may have been lost in translation. I would like to find a French original of the same news conference, to check it against the telegraph.
If details were not “lost in translation” then we have a case of serious and visible conflict between EM and the british side, as represented by WBM.
I think that at that time (october 15) they still did not make much of the time of shooting being 3:30PM. later this got pretty firmed up (what with three witnesses who heard the shots!).
Can you remind us Tim V why it was so unlikely that in such a short time the Al Hillis could pile into the car, put on seat belts, strap kids in, get on the road up Combe d”Ire, get to the martinet (how long would it take from Arnand? must be less than 10 minutes?), park car at Martinet, get out with Zainab, presumably to meet SM who had just arrived, only to be shot pronto by the arriving vehicle (assuming it wasn’t there yet, or may be it was?). Tight as hell, that’s for sure.
This while ignoring the builders account. Or, go along with Max’s “cuddly toy” theory of SAH going to the martinet not once but twice! to find the elusive toy. All that just to avoid postulating a meeting. In fact, if we believe the builders (and no reason not to), And we believe the 3:15PM picture (which we all kind of doubt but never mind) it’s either a contradiction OR Max’s scenario – of going there twice – cuddly toy or not.
There is however a third possibility – great for those of us who refuse to throw out the extraction/rendition theory: namely, there were TWO Al Hillis! one group in the BMW, sitting and waiting patiently at the martinet. Another group taking a picture at Arnand either at 3:15Pm or at some other time. With this beguiling scenario, the question is what went wrong with those pictures that they could not be shown to the public?.
I wish we heard from the people’ to whom the police “showed” those pictures. But we never did, did we?
@Bleb and James –
> 2) If SAH was the sole target why kill him in France?
> 2. True. (Or… maybe the killer was on a mileage allowance !)
Good question, except the fact we are still asking these questions provides an answer; the killer got away scot free!
If there were such a thing as “International Assassin Magazine” it would be running a Transborder Assignments Special Edition – Focus on France.
Think about it as if you were writing a list of the advantages of France in this regard. . . . . . .
P.S. I just had to google that there was not in fact an actual IAM – so you all don’t have to pollute your history with the search terms – anyways the top result is in fact:-
http://www.officialplaystationmagazine.co.uk
So don’t be rude to the spotty teen shoving OPM down his trousers in WHSmiths.
@GIP – maybe, but if your killer(s) choose France for “an easy getaway” why stir up an unnecessary hornets nest by killing two other family members and a French national you hadn’t been paid/ordered to kill?
GiP
I must say that the NTSB woman is putting on a good display of how to run an investigation (at long last).
A good understanding of Commercial Aviation.
Daily press conferences given…in full.
And she “may” re open 28 Left in 24 hours.
The “Press” however are just completely “hopeless” at reporting (and making sense of) her briefings. They’re managing to come out with all sorts of “rubbish” DISPITE the “facts” she gives them. Hey ! But that’s what the do.
So what if you “crashed” in France ?
Well if “an Eric” got on the case it would be quite something.
Nothing reported to the “press pack”. Simply “no comment”.
Follwed by “facts” released through “a close friend of the Eric’s”….which turn out “not to be ” facts.
Then “eye witnesses” completely deny they saw the plane…but can give it’s registration, altitude, speed and direction.
Lastly The Press ! They just take these “non facts” …and start filling space (mis quoting the non quoted) !
Whilst the NTSB has been “a shade” shady in the past, this time they may actually be getting somewhere (at least openly).
It is however refreshing to watch…and WOW the speculation !
So…back to Chevaline.
I think we have to take the “first reports” and try to make sense of them.
What do we have ?
The Postman ? Maybe.
The photo of the scene (only one series by the same photographer) taken over “restricted airspace” ! Jesus, when did they get to call the “restrictions” on airspace ! Annecy approach wouldn’t be near there (would it ? I doubt but will check my Jep’s)
So is the “restriction” real ? Or just “The Press” ?
And if it is…. the why is it ? Purely to stop The Press ? Maybe ? Or maybe not ? So is the picture really real ???
The accountant ? He just went on about Airbus galley design !!!
What about SSTL. Well they didn’t say much.
His work mates there ? Nothing.
What about an ex work mate, Gary Aked ?
Well here we get little….but we get a picture.
Anyone else ?
No ?
The brother ? Nada from him either.
Surely it’s not don’t to The Postman !!!
I’m afraid so. And he said he only ever saw Saad at the house.
No Mrs Saad. No kids. Nobody.
Well aint that a daisy !
My book on Chevaline will be called (bagsy the title !) “The Men That Never Were” !
james – problem with the postman – he didn’t ring twice!
If he had, perhaps iqbal would materialize.
To add to the ever growing list of questions that tag at us all, we should not forget that back in october – sometime around the 22-25, there were comments about inability to ID some of the victims, except through DNA. At the time, I took down this paragraph from one of the English papers – the Independent, perhaps, but alas, did not write down the link:
“The two women found dead in the back seat of the car are thought to have been his wife, Ikbal, and her mother. Swedish and Iraqi passports were found on the body of the older woman. French officials insist that her face and that of the male victim were too badly damaged to allow formal identification until DNA tests are performed on samples flown from Britain today.”
At the time, this was one of the items that caused lots of discussion. Why would they have been so disfigured, if shot from the side or the front, even if twice? may be there was no match to the passport pictures? and what kind of bullets would these be and how would they get through the glass, unmolested, if they were of the ‘expanding’ kind?
To my mind, based on my recollection, this problem was never resolved satisfactorily. This, and the fact that the bodies of the Al Hillis had to be embalmed to cross the channel,are just some of the items that prevented me from ever putting to rest the possibility that the dead bodies were not who we were told they were. may be none of them, may be some of them.
Couple that with the invisible Iqbal and the truly invisible Sylvain – the man who isn’t – and what we get is a toxic mixture of facts that don’t fit at all. Against this background we have EM, cast as the bumbling Clouseau, except perhaps he is not bumbling at all. Just doing his best to make sure the case is never solved. And a fine job he is doing in that regard.
then the shadow figures in the UK – BWM and those he works for – and the shadowy Philip Bossy, once Didierjean, who is rolled out to tweak the timeline, so that somehow, somewhere, someone will actually state he made that 3;48PM phone call. Now turned into a “known known” by lars’ definitive summary.
We are all still going on about Chevaline because it has the riveting qualities Twin Peaks – dramatic and surreal at the same time, with interesting characters, squabbling bloggers and detectives who may not be all kosher. Blood may have been shed, but justice seems to matter not. And if blood was not shed, justice is still not served.
I don’t know what happened at the Martinet. What I do know is that were I to come across a photo tomorrow of a Dubai explorer, who looks strangely like Saad, I wouldn’t be surprised.
I would be even less surprised to find out that at least two books on Chevaline will come out in the not too distant future.
As an aside, I know someone else suggested it before me but I would like to copyright all analogies between Chevaline and Twin Peaks series as well as Blow Up, the movie. If anyone makes those comparisons from here on, they must contribute beaucoup bucks to two of my favorite animal charities (hints: there can never be enough Pandas, and, too many people, not enough cats).
Found the link:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/the-horror-and-mystery-of-the-annecy-killings-28789999.html
the details were in other papers too.
@Marlin, 11 Jul, 2013 – 5:12 am
Sorry, M .. Twin Peaks / Chevaline, c’etait moi. Way back when, and you know, it’s still just as weird today.
@Lynda
10 Jul, 2013 – 4:46 pm
Croeso i’r ‘fan arall’ fel petae! If your Welsh isn’t up to scratch I’m sure Google Translate will give you a clue.
I agree entirely, the petty bickering over whose blog is bigger, better, friendlier, bla, bla, bla is unnecessary. I think we are all just curious bystanders who are trying to figure out WTF happened.
I liked MZT’s blog for the attention to detail from the French point of view, and here for the extravagant theorising from a global conspiratorial aspect. However, I do wonder if Marilyn got spooked by something?
Mochyn69, OOps – you get first dibs then! i didn’t see it (hey, I wasn’t everywhere). May be we could take a joint trade mark or something? like -Chevaline-Twin™ ?? has a nice ring, me thinks…
Agree about Blogs duking it out – it’s silly. Not so many people still caring enough to post and continue to speculate. The die-hards must be a self-selecting group of longer-than-normal attention spans. .
Also agree about your perspective. I did find it useful that at MZT they focused on Chevaline. And I also found many enlightening comments here on all kind of matters, near and far. learnt lots about the many unsolved cases out there. Ones I never heard about. Bluebird’s searches and data were always teachable moments, whether relevant to this case or not. Plus lots of really good questions, theories and a willingness to go far afield.
As for the spooking – yes, something must have happened. may be someone(s) were getting too close for comfort – inadvertantly, of course. May even be a small detail or a reference that gave away a bit more than intended, without any of us krealizing of course. .Somehow I doubt it’s just the copyright business. Also, I don’t think it’s anything to do with this blog here, though some may think so. in any case, I hope she brings her thread back up (of course, people could be going on discussing things on a private blog. But, where, oh where is the fun – or the point in that?). If the discussion is really down, I feel bad for the good contributors there – they seem to have become quite bonded and committed to the discussion, whether i agree with all the pistes or not.
(In case you were wondering, and after Lynda posted something) I won’t join the ranks of CM now MZT is ‘down’. A possible resurrect of MZT is to be awaited. If that happens I might hop on there, perhaps might not. It will be certainly not before end august for me to come back online (on MZT), if ever. I was only in for the puzzle, incl ‘logic’, incl ‘cuddly toys’. I took my musings elsewhere, perhaps for a slow death;) To be seen.
Good luck solving this case
– Max
Marlin
10 Jul, 2013 – 11:36 pm You say:
“Tim V, you didn’t finish your sentence.” You’ll have to poor sentence down to Narcolepsy or alcholepsy Marlin. It was late after all! However if you read it again and put the emphasis on the last word, it sort of makes sense. “must HAVE” I.E. worked out the implications. (Oh dear sorry about this!)
My point was, the investigating authorities had had plenty of time (almost 6 weeks) to get their story straight yet they are still perpetuating myths. It’s difficult to find a reason why other than incompetence or perversity.
It uses a definite time of 3.15 for the photo at Arnand and a time of 3.48 for the first phone call, hence the 33 minutes referred to. Despite Didierjean on the scene it repeats that WBM made the call. So leaving aside the timing difficulties for a moment, we have at least TWO incontrovertible subsequent changes to the police story:
1. Didierjean (who becomes Bossy) it was who made the initial call 3.48 call not WBM and
2. The timing of the embossed photo becomes a moveable feast “between 3 and 3.15” which of course is patent nonsense.
My point being after six weeks there is absolutely no excuse for these errors.
Then, as I have repeated many times, the story of the 3.15 photo, which the police put out as RELIABLE FACT has implications that are simply INCOMPATIBLE with events as we understand them, as follows:
1. It doesn’t accord with what appears to be reliable testimony of the builders unless we introduce the “teddy bear hypothesis”
2. If they were at Arnand at 3.15 we have to add time to get family back in car (5mins?) drive at speed with no hold ups back to Martinet (10 mins minimum?) time to park up involving a reverse, turn off engine and be outside long enough to meet and greet SM (5 mins). Then there is the attack itself that must predate the sound of shots to a certain extent and ALL THIS before about 3.30.
I wouldn’t say that was tight. I would say it is quite unrealistic. Please note we have made no account of the fact this family was on holiday. Do you rush around from point A to point B when on holiday. No you take everything at a leisurely pace. You don’t race around narrow forest roads, you drive carefully.
The process involved in taking a photo is an EVENT. It has to be negotiated. It has to be organised especially with very young and the very old in the party. After the photo is taken there is much giggling and mirth. People have to be coaxed back in the car. Seat belts have to be fastened etc before the car can drive off.
And even at Martinet it’s not Starsky and Hutch. It’s a family on holiday. “Who’s getting out?” Explaining why there (if it was SAH’s little secret?). Un belting Zainab. Probably walking round to see her out. Holding her hand. Meeting WBM.
Of course all this is supposition but I say it to introduce reality. Yes of course stuntmen could take a photo at Arnand at 3.15 and get to Martinet by 3.30 – just. But this is a FAMILY and it is quite wrong to project the one onto the other. For all practicable purposes I say it just didn’t happen.
Then after all this, if I have still failed to convince, if this police story is true it inevitably means other elements cannot possible be.
First if their journey was between 3.15 and 3.30 they MUST have passed at least WBM if not SM (unless he had arrived before them). WBM admits to no vehicles passing him other than the SUV and motorbike. Could he have possibly narrated his story later without saying something like “When I saw the car I recognised it from earlier when it passed me”? He refers to SM, the SUV and motorcycle passing him. How could he possibly overlook the main event?
Second if both SAH and SUV overtook him they must have been within seconds of one another. Robin Fillion said nothing followed though I grant you that was for an earlier time.
Third, if they confirm WBM made the first call at 3.48 it is problem enough because he has to arrive much earlier to fit in all the things he does until he meets PD/B. BUT and its a big but, if PD/B makes the first call at 3’48 it means that the latter entered the Combe about 15 mins before EVEN IF we do not delay the call until he has visited the crime scene. (You noticed I expect M’s explanation of the “two calls” to get around this)
So checking our stop watch this places him entering the combe about 3.33! So on this construction of events it places PD/B at the entrance when the shooting is happening so any escape vehicle MUST have also passed PD/B coming up. Yet he swears none did.
So these are the unavoidable problems by the police stories of the 3.15 photo and the 3.48 call. Both blow their credibility to pieces.
Max Please come back when you can I am sure Mzt will be back up shortly ,they are all drinking tea and enjoying a bit of sun.
This case needs you don’t go for good 🙂
A little niggle that I have been having is Paul Ducher I hate to point fingers at anyone but I have wondered if he could be the mystery PD.
He has to fetch the cows in and it would probably take a couple, one in front of cows one behind and possibly one to drive said people to the cows not to sure where they are kept, that makes three.
The photo of the cows showing them all around the journalists shows that they are milkers as opposed to beef .
We have since learned there was a little meet going on by the farm after the event .
On David Icke it was mentioned that his wife worked for one of the cycle clubs as a secretary and they are both keen cyclists so may well have known SM and/or BM .
On another tack there is a treasure stash right by the farm.
Max, for what it’s worth, I liked your way of going about “solving” the case, using logic and probabilities. You seem to be a thorough person and I, for one, am partial in that department. I really hoped that you guys are having your own discussions going on somewhere, rather than become bereft of the avenue, especially so suddenly. In fact, I had a weird dream last night where I was looking for Marilyn’s new board, and came across a weird site where I had solve a puzzle to get the “key” to Marilyn’s site. the dream was especially weird because it straddled the physical and cyber worlds, with the key, an actual old antique key that was in a box on the wall, and the puzzle was one of james’ head scratching riddles.
As for the “cuddly toy” postulate of going to the martinet twice, i never intended to ridicule it or anything. in fact, whether toy or not, going to the Martinet twice is d the only way to reconcile the timings we have: builders testimony, the 3;15PM pictures in Arnand, shots between 3:30 and 3:35 PM (that is, if we accept that the trip could be undertaken in 15 minutes from happily smiling to dead), and even Zainab’s purported statement of “shooting started as soon as they arrived. I think such a path to a solution (two trips to Martinet) HAS to be entertained as an option, for completeness, and we would be remiss not to look at it as a logic option.
That was, in fact, why I asked Tim V to go again over the scenario between the 3 time posts we were given: 3;15, 3:30 and 3:48 PM. I recalled him looking at this earlier and had to agree at the time that it looks feasibly only if we allow time itself to be somehow “stretched”, so that all can fit together, given all the other factors (WBM arriving on the scene, PD/PB etc.).
So the way I look at it this case is more complicated than sudoku because of the probabilities that have to be attached to facts, including timings. Some facts appear a lot more solid than others, and difficult choices have to be made how to weigh the facts. So it gets more like a three dimensional sudoku where probability is one of the axes. but that’s rather challenging so in the meantime t the game I try to follow is the one i believe is taking place between French and british sides. It’s in another sphere, but sits well with the “Twin peaks” look and feel of this whole case. After all, even the conspiratorially minded have to follow “some” rules and can’t throw logic to the winds altogether.
Anyways, am hoping you still get to read this long enough to reconsider your planned disappearance. I’m sure marilyn will being up the comment boards for Chevaline – so much good work has gone into them!
Hmmm, thx for the support. I’ll leave a little ‘gift’
http://thechevalinekillings.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/112636787_fra_333662y_proc.jpg
Cheers,
Max