The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
I think some towing mirrors are readily detachable (ie unhooking elastic). Even if tools are involved, if you know you will be driving without tow for a few days, I think most people would remove them. After all why drive around with extra protrusions at either side?
I wouldn’t read too much into their absence.
Straw…
Now I didn’t know that !
Do you have the link to hand (re Lawson Ware) ?
Both WMB and David Lamble’s companies were “opened” by “Rwl Registrars Limited”.
RWL clearly have done thousands of “off the shelf” companies.
But strange all the same. Well 13000 to 1 “strange”.
http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/evidence-might-be-weak-against-neo-nazi-varg-vikernes/
Black metal musician Varg Vikernes, or Louis Cachet as he has recently changed his name to, was arrested at his home in southwestern France, Tuesday. The arrest was also triggered by the fact his wife, Marie Cachet, 24, purchased four weapons.The police searched the couple’s farm in Salon-la-Tour in Corrèze for firearms and explosives. Vikernes and his wife have three children aged 2, 4 and 6. All were present at the time of the raid.
His SPOUSE Marie Cachet is a member of a SHOOTING CLUB. Her gun licence allows her to own up to four weapons. Five firearms were found, according to several French media.
German “Der Spiegel” writes that the weapons found in the house raid were OLD GUNS from WW2 and earlier, a few of them being carabiners.
Bluebird
Have no agenda here other than following various of interesting threads on a crime which is very odd. Just think that your links between a former Black metal head and this particular crime is way out of the conspiracy-line. Sure you’ll find links and simularities all the time while you hang up to some specific theory. Thats the irony of Google – anything goes. Then we can fill up this blog with neo-nazi, werwolf and nazi-notices appeared in Sweden in 1992.
Thats just my point of view and maybe i’m the only one. I have posted here for a long time ago.
Blue.
“A Norwegian neo-Nazi musician has been released two days after he was arrested in central France on suspicion of “preparing a major terrorist act”……”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23362718
Bluebird
There’s no case:
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10112023
Interpreted: The police interview with Vikernes clears that theres is no allegation of a terrorist act
Bleb, 7:57PM – one may not read too much into the absence of any one item, but a plethora of such “missing” links and/or items is something to pay attention to.
I, for one, never got over the fact that Zeena was “missing” for 8 hours straight. Not one explanation I heard made sense on this. No amount of crime-scene investigation rules or lack thereof ever added up to anything more than an excuse.
So Zeena is just one of many among the “missing” . The entire investigation from the beginning had more holes than a swiss cheese. And while some excuses are better than others in explaining absence ofm facts, bike/car parts or people, it’s in the aggregate that the larger picture becomes clear.
That being said, I understand the frustration of people in having so little to go on at least in so far as the crime itself. So yes, it’s easy to get hung up on one or more details – angle and proximity of shots, unbroken windows, more or fewer tracks, pink spots, missing mirrors and roof racks and, of course, all sort of possible motivations that run the gamut from “ordinary” nutters to neo-nazi werewolvers.
Me, I just look at the post-event behavior of the authorities and find plenty there to support a multi-intelligence services involvement. I wouldn’t even call that a ‘conspiracy” because the oddities of the post-crime “investigations’, or rather lack thereof, speak loud and clear. that part of it is frankly, quite transparent, and I just wish more people cared to look more carefully at those patterns. At least it can firm up the state agency involvement picture if not the details of the crime itself.
Yes, i read this (link below) an hour ago. However, that does that norwegian/french killer not release from being a suspect in other cases. We have had Zaid arrested and released, we have had the Nigerian arrested and released. Whatever, he is a definite neonazi link between Saddam Hussein and european neonazi parties. Still, Chevaline is a copy of the german neonazi killings also called “Bosporus murder” or “Doner Morde”.
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=192664
We know as a matter of fact that neonazis cooperated with Gladio and with CIA and that they had done a lot of terror attacks in europe, by doing the dirty work for intelligence agencies.
Marlin
Agree. It’s frustrating and from what we now about the post-crime investigations as it has been represented in the media and so, that raises many questions. But again I have the feeling that we only now what we’re supposed to.
Bluebird
Yes both Vikernes, Zaid and Nigerian man were arrested and released again. But Vikernes was arrested in a quite different case: racism, terror, Breivik, 22 of July, nazi. Lets keep the antiterror-unit and the Alps murder investigation seperated.
Just watch this video and note the methodological similarities. Although we now live in a different world in which the internet is not so easily controlled and some of the population may be a tad less gullible. Is it any wonder the way in which western governments are focusing on powers to monitor and control this medium and those who use it. There was of course a repeat performance for 9/11 and very likely, Boston too. In comparison, and hypothetically speaking, Chevaline would be small fry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2p-JAwhFkg
One rather insignificant (?) fact from the JFK killing – which the evidence now indicates was a CIA inspired and executed operation, and Oswald an innocent patsy as he in fact claimed – a Mauser 7.65 rifle and bullet casings were found. OK I KNOW it’s not a Luger and its not a pistol but it was the calibre that caught my eye. Is there something in the manual that requires a 7.65?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65%C3%9753mm_Argentine
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/de/mauser-1910-14-34-e.html
“Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade told the press that the weapon found in the Book Depository was a 7.65 Mauser, and this was reported by the media.[79] But investigators later identified the rifle as a 6.5 Italian Mannlicher Carcano.[80] [81] According to Mark Lane:
The strongest element in the case against Lee Harvey Oswald was the Warren Commission’s conclusion that his rifle had been found on the 6th floor of the Book Depository building. Yet Oswald never owned a 7.65 Mauser. When the FBI later reported that Oswald had purchased only a 6.5 Italian Mannlicher-Carcano, the weapon at police headquarters in Dallas miraculously changed its size, its make and its nationality. The Warren Commission concluded that a 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano, not a 7.65 German Mauser, had been discovered by the Dallas deputies.[82]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories#Fabrication_of_evidence
Also of course that the weapon transmuted in the course of the investigation and both were old German designs. The claim is made that it was largely Germans or their agents that ran the CIA at the time btw.
The first Director of the CIA was Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, 1947–1950[edit]
“Rear Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter was appointed as the first Director of Central Intelligence (i.e., full Director of Central Intelligence[clarification needed]). During his tenure, a National Security Council Directive on Office of Special Projects, June 18, 1948, (NSC 10/2) further gave the CIA the authority to carry out covert operations “against hostile foreign states or groups or in support of friendly foreign states or groups but which are so planned and conducted that any US Government responsibility for them is not evident to unauthorized persons.”[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_Central_Intelligence#Roscoe_H._Hillenkoetter.2C_1947.E2.80.931950
German origins presumably but definitely not a spy. However the terms of reference are quite interesting arn’t they?
One small example:
“The article was written by Martin Lee. Mr. Lee argues that after World War II, Nazi spies duped the U.S. into hiring them, thereby protecting themselves and their networks from prosecution.
He cites the example of General Reinhard Gehlen. Gehlen had been chief of Nazi intelligence in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. According to Mr. Lee, Gehlen fooled spymaster Allen Dulles, who later became Director of the CIA, in the following way:
“Gehlen was quickly spirited off to Fort Hunt, Va. The image he projected during 10 months of negotiations at Fort Hunt was, to use a bit of espionage parlance, a “legend” –one that hinged on Gehlen’s false claim that he was never really a Nazi, but was dedicated, above all, to fighting Communism. Those who bit the bait included future CIA director Allen Dulles, who became Gehlen’s biggest supporter among American policy wonks. ” (From the text below)
There’s a bit of a problem here.
Starting more than a decade earlier, Allen Dulles, a leading diplomat and spy, and his brother, John Foster, a Wall Street insider, had created a financial-intelligence apparatus to assist the Nazis. So Dulles had long-standing, friendly relations with Nazis. That being the case, why would Dulles be upset if he ‘learned’ that Gehlen (a top Nazi spy) was a Nazi? (1)
Moreover, Gehlen had not been some cloistered spy. His job had not been simply to coordinate the gathering of information. He had been a key leader of the work of fascist groups in the occupied East, such as the Iron Guard in Romania, the Latvian Vanagis and the Croatian Ustashe. These groups committed the most unimaginably brutal atrocities against ‘Untermenschen’, Jews, ‘gypsies’, Serbs and other Slavs and Orthodox Christians, as well as against anti-Nazis, both Communist and non-Communist, including various Nationalist groups, which resisted the Nazis. Gehlen was a leading war criminal.
Did Allen Dulles know all this? Of course he knew all this. He was a U.S. spymaster with almost three decades experience and he had worked with the Nazi leadership for two decades. Dulles arranged to have Gehlen secretly brought to the U.S. precisely so that the Russians wouldn’t get hold of him and put him on trial for war crimes and hang him.”
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=15727
James 8.13pm
Lawsonware link:-
http://www.lawsonware.com/home.html
The newspaper article I was looking for didnt mention the word ‘together’ I found when I posted this before in November:-
Straw44berry
5 Nov, 2012 – 2:32 pm
Amanda Lamble and daughter Isabella handed over a large bunch of flowers to police officers guarding the house.
Ms Lamble said: “The children are the same age as my two daughters, we often drive down to Spain and we know Annecy and we felt that we needed to pay our respects.”
From here:-
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/flowers-and-tributes-to-family-placed-at-claygate-house-8119812.html
Doesnt this suggest the 2 families drive to Spain and maybe to Annecy TOGETHER?
Amanda Lamble’s husband David Christopher Lamble run a headhunting firm -useful to know to get the right person into secretive positions at EADS or to be cover for UK Intel to check on anyone.
Straw44berry
Re the word ‘together’ not being mentioned – from my interpretation of the article, this mother and daughter felt that they had something in common because of the Annecy and Spain connection and simply decided to place the flowers there out of compassion. I really don’t believe they ‘knew’ them. I too felt a connection with the AH family from the very beginning because we have also camped alongside Lake Annecy and had picnics in the hills above. We also know an Iraqi family who live near Kingston. So if I’d lived a few streets away from the AH Claygate abode, I too would probably have put flowers there myself. Someone I met does a school run in the morning and she drives past there every day. So chances are this is the case with this mother and daughter.
Straw….
“Ms Lamble said: “The children are the same age as my two daughters, we often drive down to Spain and we know Annecy and we felt that we needed to pay our respects.”
In reading this, I can’t tell if they “actually” knew the each other at all.
The only “connection” is that Ms Lamble lives “local” to Claygate and she goes on holiday in Spain….and they drive there.
She also knows of the Annecy area, like many Brit’s do.
Once again, we are back to the question, “Who lived at the Claygate house ?”
We can’t say that we have ANY information at all about Saad Al Hilli. All I have “heard” is “re-hashed” information that has been previously reported in the newspapers (even down to the “Mister Men” book ! Now where have I since heard that said/written ??).
Jennywren.
Like I just wrote above.
BUT you say something interesting. You said
“I too would probably have put flowers there myself. Someone I met does a school run in the morning……”
But it doesn’t even say that ! It doesn’t say “our eldest daughter was in the same class” or even “went to the same school”.
It is just a “local” woman who has been understandably upset by the fact a “local” family has been murdered in such a horrific manner.
That’s what I can’t get my head around.
james, it will interest you to know that in a comment by FB on MZT he mentioned talking to journalists/reporters outside Claygate house, defying phone request from a policewoman to not talk about Saad.
Question to you (and others here who may remember): do you recall a Mathews (sorry, spelling probably wrong) being mentioned in the early days in any of the articles/videos as an acquaintance/friend of Saad? because I only recall a Gary Aked. I would ask FB directly, but thought i should first check with people who may have seen some account somewhere that I didn’t.
James & Jennywren
I think you are, no having read this article you ARE both right:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
It was clear that the murders have touched even those who did not know the family. Yesterday afternoon in Clay-gate Amanda Lamble, and her daughter, Isabella, handed over a large bunch of flowers to police officers guarding the house.
“All families and children have them in their thoughts and parents are trying to help children understand what has happened,” she said.
Marlin
James Mathews is a an engineer friend/work colleague in my head (but maybe incorrectly) from SSTL in Guildford
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19729566
James Mathews is an engineer who became friends with Saad when their daughters attended the same playgroup. He says Saad was “worried” about his house.
“He had spent a lot of time and effort on his house and he was worried after his father had died that he might not be able to stay there.”
Mr Mathews said he was aware of the dispute as Saad had asked him to be a witness if the case came to court.
“He said: ‘I’ve put all my life and all my money into this house and it would be… heartbreaking to have to sell it.’.”
I forgot to add:
James Mathews = FB @MZT
But there is also a James Barnett see here:-
https://www.duedil.com/company/04125692/ams-1087-limited/people
Tim v.
Interesting post. Thanks.. This backs up the known cooperation between CIA/Gladio stay behind networks and neonazi networks in Europe as well as in the USA.
I believe that the word “neonazi” is a wrong expression. We should say “Nationalists” or “Extremist Nationalists”. They did cooperate with right wing extremists in the USA, too (e.g. Timothy McVeign).
Also al Qaida terrorists are very similar “right wing religious nationalist extremists”.
The Luxembourg bombings in the 1980tees, the deadly terror bombs in Italy and Germany and Belgium in the 1980tees and 1990tees were all deposited by neonazi groups who had a close cooperation with CIA and with parts of the German BND, Luxembourg intelligence, Italian intelligence and french right wing extremists. The Palme assassination was performed by a neonazi group, too. Then we have extremist right wing terrorist Breivik and the German “Bosporus murder” neonazi network with a kind of assassination style that was a carbon copy of Chevaline.
The key to al Hilli is Mollier and the key for Mollier are the French metal workers union and neonazi leader Christian Mollier. The key to Saddam Hussein and Iraq are the French metal workers union and the french neonazi party MNR. The key to Iraq is Saddam Hussein. The key to al Hillis is Iraq. The circle is closed. No missing link.
Forget Iran and international politics.
This is more local. Maybe this was for money depths, maybe for betrayal of money or maybe for some European terror financing business gone wrong. Maybe for whistleblowing.
This is for those of you who would like to understand the present by history.
Why do french neonazis and the Baath party have close relations? Why was the Baath party originally a NAZI party? Why did Saddam Hussein support neonazis?
Why do some other Arab politicians support neonazis? Why did the CIA and France support Arab Nazi? Why did the “Odessa network” (CIA/Gladio/Vatican) save and protect the worst German Nazis and then hiding them in Egypt with protection of Egyptian NAZI supporters King Farouk and Nasser? Read here!
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/baath.html
http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/nazis_postwar_egypt.htm
Marlin.
See Straws post.
I think first reports quoted “James” (Fat Bastard) as a friend of Saad’s.
Later he became the “public face” so to speak as this is were we get “most” of the “information” from.
Including the “worry” over the house.
James Barnett, it was reported, had worked with Saad.
Certainly Saad became a partner in AMS1087 in 2007.
However, James had opened (and I assume operated) that company since 2001.
The interesting thing there is in September 2007 James started his “trendy” scooter shop. A very “hip” opportunity indeed.
In October 2007 Saad became “Co Sec” at AMS1087.
Make of that what you will.
But don’t get “hung up” on “aerial photography”.
I seem to recall a few “off the shelf” AMS1000’s also being “in” that field.
Reports from “James B” and “Gary A” with regard their relationship with Saad are few and far between.
Read when a neonazi in Germany worked for Arafat and Abu Nidal, when he supported the 1972 Munich terror and when he was supported by Romanian customs and finally when he worked for CIA.
Fascinating story that reveals about who is working for whom and why.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/how-willi-voss-went-from-abetting-terror-to-working-for-the-cia-a-875374.html
Really worth reading to understand connections and cooperations between intelligence and criminals.
Finally, thanks Gos, i found this piece in English.
DIA/CIA involvement in the german neonazi “Bosporus murder” series.
Read the COMPLETE TEXT IN THE LINK below and tell me whether or not you could feel a “dejavu” with the chevaline event.
Another incredible coincidence happened around the murder of the female police officer Michèle Kiesewetter (Link to wikipedia). The official version claims that the NSU attacked her and her colleague to get their police-weapons, which sounds weird; in the Nazi-underground are enough weapons available. In the parking lot, where the police-officers were attacked, happened in just the same time an observation of members of the Islamic terror-cell “Sauerland-group”, which planned attacks inside Germany (Link to wikipedia). In this observation was involved the US – service “Defense Intelligence Agency” (DIA), which wrote in following leaked memo: „SHOOTING INCIDENT INVOLVING BW OPS OFFICER WITH RIGHT WING OPERATIVES AND REGULAR POLICE PATROL ON THE SCENE.” (Link to Bild.de) On contrary to that account, the German police did not assume”right wing operatives” as attackers, but a (never existing) “phantom of Heilbronn”. The costly hunt for this “phantom” lasted several years and ended in an embarrassing blind alley (Linkto wikipedia). With Kiesewetter´s gun, found in the burned out caravan of NSU, this case will likely be officially closed.
Much more here:
http://911blogger.com/news/2012-02-03/nazi-terror-coming-back-germany
More on CIA/neonazi connections:
Washington Post Explains How the Nazi-Created CIA Protects Us
http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-post-explains-how-the-nazi-created-cia-protects-us/1285
In Paris, as U.S.-French acrimony peaked over the Iraq invasion in 2003, the CIA and French intelligence services were creating the agency’s only multinational operations center and executing worldwide sting operations.”
Blue.
I do get where you’re coming from, but what I can’t get is “Why”.
In the German murders, the victims were “German” with “ethnic” roots. In France there are many of that “profile” that could be attacked.
And so a “clearer” statement made.
The question therefore is “Why (Iraqi) tourists” ?
If an “ambush”, they would have to be damn lucky to find a group on The Combe D’Ire that were “ethnic” in origin.
If they were “followed” then why pick a “British” group ?
Why not a Turkish born Frenchman who runs a small business ?
That would be a “better” profile after all.