Let me be upfront: none of my usual contacts, so far, has any knowledge about the very clinical murders in France of the Iraqi origin British Hilli family. I have seen various internet reports of the links of Mr Hilli to the defence industry and that the French cyclist victim was linked to the nuclear industry. I am not immediately concerned that the other cyclist who raised the alarm was ex-RAF; had that fact been sinister, it would have been hidden or he might not have raised the alarm at all.
In short, I really do not know what is happening here and I don’t think normal hierarchies within British security agencies know either. It may be genuinely random, or not. I am not posting to speculate or to spread knowledge, but because unless I do post, commenters will derail other threads to discuss this. Should I discover anything, I will let you know. But we may well never know; we still don’t really know who killed JFK, or Hilda Murrell. There is always an answer, but it is not always known to the public.
No excuse can justify the failure to identify and help the poor little girl who was still alive in the bottom of the car. Discovering if anybody was alive in the car should have outweighed every other consideration for the emergency services. Protocols for the dead will not help them much, whatever they may achieve for abstract justice. The living are easier to serve well, and this was a gross failure.
Hello all, and Craig!
I have been HOT on this case for the last two days.
I have been archiving info since the DA notice.
I have hoovered up much info since the guillotine came down, far too much to list here.
I believe my due diligence will blow your mind:
As you all know, all is not what it seems.
Start here: page 2 to the end
Heavy stuff, but easy to digest!
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221659&page=2
Anyone else puzzled why the “Swedish mother-in-law” is never named? These people would all have had passports with them, either at the campsite or on their person.
Daily Mail: “Police praised the bravery of the ‘nerves of steel’ shown by the British cyclist who telephoned for help on the day of the shootings, and who has been ‘unable to sleep’ since Wednesday’s attack”
Felix I put this on the Derailed thread by mistake.
8 Sep, 2012 – 7:33 am
Good digging Felix. Keep that spade sharpened.
Footdown sounds like a club for runners but it gives me the creeps.
Seems to have a common purpose feel, combined with the meme of entrepreneurship and ACPO for good measure. I do not like clubs.
See Mike Roe, another senior copper. http://www.footdown.com/about/meet-the-team/mike-roe/
I still keep thinking of the little girls left behind without a Mummy or Daddy.
I was looking to see whether the mother-in-law lived at the address. It is strange that Mr Al Hilli’s wife is not on the electoral roll. There are only entries for him and his brother.
http://www.192.com/all/search/?sk=0bae894a-c7b5-475d-ac99-ff012eef9f14&location=Claygate&looking_for=Hilli
Surrey Police, involved in this case, were considering joining a joint initiative with West Midlands Police to hand over some of their functions to private firms including G4S. This plan was dropped like a hot potato when the G4S Olympics fiasco was revealed but cost £801,500.
Surrey council tax payers are now left with a £160,000 bill. The Home Office and West Midlands police are sharing the remainder, ie over £320,000 each. What a farce and what a waste of public money. Well done St Theresa and the two Chief Constables concerned. The Surrey Chief Constable Mark Rowley who started it off is now at the Met as an Assistant Chief Commissioner having failed to get the job as head of the National Crime Agency. There’s a name to conjure with.
Source Surrey Advertiser 7 Sept and Oct 14 and 21 2011.
@Mary : speaking from personal experience, I wouldn’t perhaps read too much into the strange things you sometimes find on the electoral rolls – on checking out, in the past, my own entry and those of some family members I found all kinds of names of people I’d never heard of and who certainly didn’t live there. Cock-up rather than conspiracy, I should imagine.
@Vague Hague N_
“Not quite sure what your point is.”
It was there in the first line: Saltman is spreading chaff.
“I wouldn’t worry too much about what you call the police/spook liaison outfit. Mr Saltman will have known them as SB throughout his working life. Who cares what they’re called.”
I hope you’re not believing too much of what he’s saying. This guy will know his SB from his SIB, for sure.
“He seems to have been quite a substantial journalist in his day, with all that that entails and fond of uncovering political “scandal”.”
I know.
“He’s not just the usual neighbour that turns up of these occasions.”
I’d expect someone to pop up locally and do the job he’s doing. You’d be surprised how many ‘loyal’ types with MI6 or MI5 records there are around.
However, you’re right.
Saltman worked on the Martin Luther King case, etc.
Anyone else puzzled why the “Swedish mother-in-law” is never named?
The elderly lady in the car is unlikely to be the mother-in-law. The 4-year old daughter Zeena has apparently identified all the occupants of the car, except the elderly lady, whom she did not know.
Click here for some info on Jack Saltman’s family background.
A few Jacks get mentioned there. The one who’s been gobbing off about Saad al-Hilli is, and who produced the documentary on Kurt Waldheim and the mock trial of James Earl Ray (still in jail for the MLK assassination, a crime of which many believe him to be innocent), is described in the article as the son of Solomon Saltman.
If it was an assassination, maybe the female line were the targets for some reason. Just speculating.
Oops – sorry – of course James Earl Ray is not still in jail; he died in 1998. I was getting my wires crossed with Sirhan Sirhan, the Palestinian guy who is still in jail.
@MJ
I now notice that the “mother-in-law” is named in a few select places – eg The Sun and now the Daily Mail
The Scotland Yard Blogspot (all one word)is gathering a nice file of stories and inconsistencies. The latest blogpost there notes the Mother-in-law,as reported,Suhaila Al-Allaf of Hålvägen 6, Tumba, a suburb of Stockholm. Who put the name into the public domain?
N_ However did you find that? Don’t the Jews love their genealogy. So boring and self obsessed. You should have warned us that it was 33125 words!
I found these mentions of a Jack Saltman and some others which were not relevant.
I forgot to ask Manny about his brother Solomon; I had heard vaguely that he had a son who had made a name for himself in television. Sometime later I checked the British Museum catalogue and discovered that Jack Saltman had written the script for a television play on the notorious Waldheim. Returning to Manny – I was beginning to feel more and more like an inexperienced barrister cross-examining a reluctant witness. His replies became crisper and icier. I wished him a Happy New Year, not “reciprocated”, and rang off. Later I drew up a table incorporating the information given by Miss Kalson and Manny and posted it to him, asking for his comments, amendments and additions. My strong suspicion that he wouldn’t reply was justified. I think he was trying to convey to me: “None of you ever had time for us when we needed you. And now, thank God, I don’t need you at all and won’t be bothered with you”.
and
In view of the frequent spy-scares at the time, Izzy was playing with fire. The affair dragged on for some considerable time. In the end, Izzy and my grandfather were partially successful. Izzy was in fact drafted into the 11th Lincolnshire Regiment (as appears in the British Jewry Roll of Honour), but was allowed to serve his time within the confines of the United Kingdom. So he, too, had a “good war”. What a contrast to poor Jack Saltman, who could of course have claimed exemption on similar grounds !
~~~~~
The latter Jack was killed at Ypres in WWI.
Thanks anyway.
The guy who produced the Kurt Waldheim documentary is the same Jack Saltman who lives in Claygate. Son of Solomon Saltman.
He must have made quite a few connections doing the James Earl Ray mock trial documentary.
He also gave evidence at the 1999 civil trial, at which the jury decided that James Earl Ray did not shoot Martin Luther King. The transcript of that trial is here.. That’s definitely the right Jack – he even gives his address in Claygate.
@Mary : speaking from personal experience, I wouldn’t perhaps read too much into the strange things you sometimes find on the electoral rolls
Spot on Joe- if Mr al-Hilli had a Swedish mother in law his wife was very likely a Swedish citizen as well. Swedish citizens resident in the UK have no right to vote in UK general elections- they may only vote in Euro elections and (after they’ve been on this list for 10 years)they also acquire the right to vote in local elections. In all probability therefore, the wife wouldn’t appear on the main electoral roll.
Old Mark. I also have the same rights as his assumed Swedish wife, and I’m on the electoral register, marked with a K.
What was so special about the elderly Swedish victim that nobody dares to name her?
I thought Swedish citizens living in the UK could vote in local elections without there being a years of residence rule, but am ready to stand corrected!
They can also vote in EU elections, but only if they fill in a special form giving up their right to vote in EU elections in their country of citizenship.
Residents in the UK who are citizens of EU member states Ireland, Cyprus or Malta can vote in any UK election they want.
Hilli assassination: If true and a d-notice has been placed, then we can say there is more than meets the eye. Fact that the main so-called trusted papers/websites (BBC, Telegraph guardian etc) are pushing out stories to do with robbery-gone-wrong, brothers involvement or Baath party connections..means we will never be told what actually happened and its simply a cover up job now…the actual killers will never be found..even if they were known, or get to be known, by French/Uk authorities. This is the world we live in…creating perceptions and controlling people via news/media outlets which only push out facts to placate. Sadly I hope not, but this will be a case where in time we will be told the bizarre murder was never solved.
Why were the family at the end of a road that only continued as a trail that only walkers or two wheeled vehicles could use (the mother in law was 74 – ok she could be a fit 74 but a walk seems unlikely – the father did not look like a walker either – I know mention of picnic spot has been made but it doesn’t look like one to me – I think you have to go up a long way from that spot to get nice views of Mont Blanc or the lake). It looks like some sort of an arranged meet-up where the party they were meeting could leave by motorbike knowing they could not be followed by car – either the family’s or anyone following them in a car – especially as there are a lot of trails in that forest! But then why all the family?
Sorry to sound pessimistic but…
The suspicion in this is huge, and there are many curious facts listed above. Investigations may or may not bear fruit, but what will become of it?
Dr Kelly, J.C. De Menezes, even the entire Iraq war and literally countless other events – all despicable crimes, leaving a trail of clues that are diligently followed by a few. The real villains never answer for it. The headlines dry up and so does public interest, leaving it a footnote in history that no longer even needs ‘deleted’ as the mere utterance of it marks you out as a conspiracy nut.
It’s fascinating to follow the clues in this case, but I fear that’s all it is – a game of amateur detective with no real outcome.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying people should quit pulling this apart, and with urgency before the traces are kicked over and the official narrative is settled upon, but is anyone following this with more than merely a sense of outrage – does anyone actually expect any justice (real justice, not the stringing up of a fall-guy) could ever emerge? Does anyone even imagine that it will affect future actions, beyond the culprit’s ‘lessons learned’ in how to erase people with less public fuss while retaining the message that is being sent?
anyone happen to know if Mr al-Hilli was Sunni or Shia?
The important point, so far as Islamic politics is concerned, is that some Muslims claim that if the victim was neither in the safety of (UK) guest hospitality or (Iraqi) home hospitality, murder is more acceptable. This ignores the emphasis the Qur’an constantly places on assisting the traveller.
N.B. US=UK=IS=political Islam in the New World Order.
“anyone happen to know if Mr al-Hilli was Sunni or Shia?”
.
If the family was really from Hilla, then he will have been Shi’a. Probably a Baghdad Shi’a, whose family came from Hilla.
From the Press Conference 3 pm
All four were shot twice in the head.
The search of the Al Hilli home is being carried out by the French with the co-operation of the British police. Is that lawful?
All family members will be questioned including Mr Al Hilli’s brother.
The French prosecutor (a magistrate) is very choosy about the questions he answers. Gets a bit stroppy if he doesn’t like something.
How does he know that the family ‘had a very long trip through France’. Being followed perhaps.
The questions are mostly inaudible to the translator and she says ‘inaudible’ frequently.
‘Excellent co-operation with our British counterparts’.
He doesn’t know if there will be burials. Implication that there will be a cremation?
I just posted on Yahoo about the story being given a D-Notice and someone (a journalist) posted back confirming there had been a d-notice served. His post was removed within 2 minutes.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/alps-shooti…mt-container-b
1. CEZUS Ugine employee and bicyclist found dead at scene.
2. Problem discovered in 1998 with zircaloy cladding produced by CEZUS. Incomplete cladding not revealed until 2000.
[link to http://www.wise-paris.org]
3. Some of the tubes with faulty cladding may have found their way to market.
[link to http://www.wise-paris.org]
4. Did any of the faulty cladding end up in Japan, specifically Fukushima?
5. What did the dead bicyclist know?
The first thing I thought of was Jack Drummond and his family, on aug 4/5 1952, Jack his wife and daughter were murdered at near enough the same place. There has been speculation this years that it was a professional hit. Drummond was a scientist and for years he had been voicing concerns about how dangerous pesticides were.
He was a much respected and decorated scientist, at the time of his death he was “Apparently” working for Boots, and was researching cures for tropical diseases, whatever he was working on, Boots scrapped the project after his murder.
I read the book “the Vitamin Murders” about the killing years ago, a French peasant was set up for the murders. Drummond invented the word vitamin, it was he who first really documented the various nutritional benefits of various foods, and for years he was scathing in condemning pesticides as dangerous to human health, and destroying the nutrition of the food.
Is it just me or was that not one of the most bizarre press conferences ever. Very little new info … lots of no answering … lots of “attitude” and excessive verbage … reducing expectations of any result … magistrate giving the impression of having been bollocked by higher ups and told to cut the flow of info to virtually zilch. He even got worked up about the British giving out too much info!! I know he as been stroppy in the past especially about the reports of a white car but this was something else.
Most reassuring from Hague. NOT.
France Travel Advice
This advice has been reviewed and reissued with an amendment to the Travel Summary (multiple murder near Lake Annecy). The overall level of the advice has not changed; there are no travel restrictions in place in this travel advice for France.
(see travel advice legal disclaimer)
Travel advice for this country
Travel Summary
Safety and security
Local laws and customs
Entry requirements
Health
Natural disasters
General
Travel Summary (back to top)
The multiple murder near Lake Annecy on 5 September is now the subject of a French police investigation. We have no information to suggest that there is a wider threat to British nationals as a result of this tragic incident. We are continuing to monitor the situation closely. If you are in the area, you should follow the advice of the local authorities.
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/europe/france1
It also emerged yesterday that Mr al-Hilli had recently become involved in a bitter legal dispute over an inheritance worth more than €1.2million.
Family friend Zaid Alabdi said: “He told me he had employed lawyers and was involved in a dispute over a lot of money.”
Iraqi-born Mr Alabdi said the al-Hilli family regularly took summer holidays at the same French campsite.
[link to http://www.mirror.co.uk]
It appears he’d been living in fear of his life for quite a few months according to his neighbour.
And as an attempt was made to take the whole family out, it’s more than likely an inheritance issue. Which is what his fear was related to.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9977516
Why just pistol whip the girl then? She was shot in the shoulder. Did they run out of bullets? They could easily have broken the girl’s neck or slit her throat. And of course they also missed the OTHER girl, who would survive to collect her inheritance.
Remember, there is a UK govt D notice out forbidding any UK editor from revealing all the sensitive nuclear etc information on this thread.
The brother is now being set up as a patsy, whilst Mossad or whomever get away with another hit, and no diplomatic incident results.