Drone Murder

by craig on October 24, 2012 10:16 am in Uncategorized

I had a half-formed post in mind to work on this morning, but then I read Glenn Greewald’s latest and concluded that if you are going to devote ten minutes of your day, nothing I could write would be as profitable as your reading him.

I would only add the obvious fact that Blair had already done to New Labour precisely what Obama has done to the Democrats; and that western “democracy” has lost its meaning because the institutionally entrenched parties offer no actual policy choice to voters, but are all neo-conservative.

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  1. Neil Saunders

    24 Oct, 2012 - 10:29 am

    And yet the yelping border collies of the mainstream media seem able to corral the populace into one or other of the large, indistinguishable sheep-pens of party politics, don’t they, Craig?

  2. nothing I could write would be as profitable as your reading him.

    No, no, Craig! (etc)
    But you’re right.
    Read it, fellow sycophants. Read it.

  3. Citizens cannot identify themselves to – or physically surrender to – an IED; or to a drone. Citizens who aspire to resist asassination as an acceptable method of conducting political disputes should not surrender to anyone the authority to deploy IEDs or drones on their behalf. Especially not if his name is POTUS.

  4. Craig, for those who are too busy or exhausted to spent ten minutes I would suggest watching a video by Deek Jackson at

  5. The ‘kill list’ is a wonderful piece of electioneering. It’s like the military industrial complex has a politics branch to act as a communications unit with sod all ability to amend decision making. I’m not too bothered about the US, don’t live there – none of my business, but when the EU is blatantly positioning itself to get access to such mechanisms then it’s really just game over. No one in charge gives a toss any more, no one changes group think, says hang on a mo – i’m not happy with this. Ah, fuck it, the Guv’nor of the Bank of England has just admitted that half a trillion quid was just pissed down the drain and yet it hardly makes news as Jimmy Savile was a necrophiliac. Despair and fury went about 3 years ago, all that is left is booze. Screw it.

  6. The older I get, the more I miss old Saddam Hussein. Back in two thousand and something he proposed an alternative resolution of Iraq War Two: he challenged Boy Bush to a wrestling match. It’s no surprise that Baby Boy turned him down.

  7. It was an excellent article.

    Curiously, Drones seemed to just ‘appear’. Clearly, drones are the product of decades of R&D, and large (public) investment, so they didn’t appear as if by magic. No, they were foisted upon us by the military-media-industrial complex, and none of us can do much about it. Who decided that drones were ok however? Not the public, for sure.

    For me, I see very little substantive difference between a drone and, say, a landmine. Both kill friend and foe alike, and cause great pain and suffering in the communities involved. Of course, the US opted out of the landmine treaty, for reasons that remain unclear (http://www.uscbl.org). It’s genuinely hard to think of any reason at all that a democracy would opt out of a treaty banning landmines. We can be sure that any attempt to make drones illegal, as they should be, will be met with fierce resistance by the US and its proxies, but what troubles me is how thin the pro-drone arguments really are. They aren’t trying anymore. They can’t be bothered, and just trot out PR to fool the un-educated, or indifferent. I’ve yet to hear an argument for drones that doesn’t make me laugh at its absurdity.

    So, of course, such arguments are rote in media land. Indeed, in the current US elections, it’s even worse: they don’t even bother with the absurdities. They just state, declaritive style, that they are killing terrorists. Which is, of course, enough. Greenwald’s article is very good, as usual, but one can’t help get the feeling that US elites are beyond such facts and reason, and have entered a phase that can only really be called fascist. Call it authoritarian, if the ‘f’ word displeases you – but whatever it is, it isn’t democracy.

    Nothign short of making drones illegal is enough, unless – see Nuremeberg principles – there is an actual, immediate theat to a nation-state. But who cares about the Nuremberg principles anymore?

  8. Sorry Mary.

    I was being procvocative and lazy.

    I will read up later and draw my own.conclusion.

  9. This drone policy is disturbing beyond belief. It is the ultimate in cowardice. Somebody sitting in a safe environment thousands of miles away playing with a joystick that is destroying real lives. In the seventies Professor Carlo Cipolla said that ‘man is still a savage but the weapons at his disposal are more sophisticated.’ Today they are, by those standards, even more sophisticated, unbelievably more so. I have one word for anyone who operates one of these deadly joysticks: COWARD.

    But eventually the technology will go global. As I write Noor Khan, who lost realtives to a drone strike, is questioning William Hague about the legality of the UK drone programme. The US and UK will not always be at the leading edge of technology. If countries like Azerbaijan is using drones (supplied by Israel) along the Armenian border, it is clear that there will come a day when those cowards sitting by their US/UK joysticks will be vulnerable too.


  10. “western “democracy” has lost its meaning because the institutionally entrenched parties offer no actual policy choice to voters, but are all neo-conservative.”

    I would actually go further. I would say that not only has western ‘democracy’ lost its meaning, but that there is NO western ‘democracy’ any more. We live in dictatorships of 4-5 years (depending on the country’s election laws). We can vote for a different dictatorship – heavy or light – every 4-5 years & once we have voted, those ‘elected’ (normally by 30% or less of the elctorate) do whatever they want, regardless of any election programme they may have published…we are not represented any more.

  11. “UK support for US drones in Pakistan may be war crime, court is told”

    Lawyers for Pakistani man whose father was killed by drone strike seek to have sharing of UK intelligence declared unlawful


  12. That is very nice of you Jay to say that. Sorry if I sounded snappy. I am concerned about Clark. What can we do to get him back?

  13. Picking off the ‘Taliban’ with UACVs.


  14. Clark.

    The future is unwritten. Work hard do your best and believe for a better future for all our sakes.

    Love everyone!

  15. Arthur Silber has another powerful piece on the whole sorry scenario here http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com.au/

  16. Agreed wrt drones etc.

    Now to this zombie-like idea that somehow ‘western democracy’ used to be more effective, democratic etc and is now in retreat. Please supply evidence.

    I think there is a more compelling explanation. Representative democracy was a revolutionary development for its time, a sea change from various private tyrannies that preceded it. As the franchise was extended to larger and larger sections of society the scale of barbarity and exploitation diminished in proportion. Self-evidently, the effects of democracy are most felt at home, understandably less so abroad since foreigners don’t take part in our elections. Large scale violence and famine are now unthinkable in the west.

    However representative democracy (what is broadly understood by ‘western democracy’) has nearly exhausted its potential for further improvement. Moreover with the emergence of more accessible alternative news channels, notably internet and foreign satellite tv, we are becoming more aware of the unfulfilled promise of representative democracy and of the evils that have always been perpetrated in our name. Our democracy has not changed but our awareness of what goes on has increased. This awareness always grows more acute in times of crisis and need as we are compelled to question more of what we take for granted in good times.

    Our democracy hasn’t retreated. It was crippled from the start since it was always about ‘representation’ and party politics, and now we are slowly coming to terms with it.

  17. I am concerned about Clark. What can we do to get him back?
    Nothing, beyond showing your support, and you and several others of us have. He’ll need time off anyway, I’m guessing. If he’s any sense he won’t be reading this for now. If he is –


  18. The use of drones has been spreading beyond the military for several years. The UK Police have been using unarmed drones for a while. So have demonstrators.

    You can buy one to control with your phone from Selfridges.




  19. Komodo 24 Oct, 2012 – 2:41 pm

    Get drunk. Joining a choir sounds great. But please don’t go fishing – it is a cruel sport. Just imagine ‘fishing’ your dog.

    But I’m just a soggy, dog-loving, fish-friendly lentil eater.

  20. I thought you ate flies and other insects!

    Have you heard that Bettison has ‘resigned’? He says his hands are completely clean!


    Are the walls going to tumble down as these structural cracks get bigger?

  21. But flies taste so good. And anyway I have yet to develop higher brain functions.

    Bettison will get by very nicely on his pension and some consultancy work.

  22. In deference to Phil, strike ‘fishing’. (Except for edible species you are definitely going to eat.) Errr…how about GO SKATEBOARDING ?

  23. My anti-drone drone jammer becomes higher priority.

    O/T -I repeat the screws are turning down on freedom, one thread at a time – John Kiriakou jailed for whistle-blowing on torture:


    Recommend – Buy a cheap short-wave radio to receive UK-Collapse instructions as needed. Frequencies will be 28666kHz & 7166kHZ

  24. I see Selfridges’ drone is wi-fi enabled. It would be no more than poetic justice to jam one and crash it with a BT HomeHub.

  25. Mark Golding – Children of Conflict 24 Oct, 2012 – 4:24 pm
    “Recommend – Buy a cheap short-wave radio to receive UK-Collapse instructions as needed. Frequencies will be 28666kHz & 7166kHZ”

    Ooh, please elaborate Mark. That sounds like some info I should have next to my stockpile of spam.

  26. @Mark

    Sorry my above comment sounds facetious. It isn’t. I am genuinely intrigued by what that means and where you got it.

  27. Like something out of a trashy Sci-fi book from the sixties, Craig-but really happening right now. Amazing how those who think this murderous rubbish is O.K. never seem to realise that what goes around usually comes around, due to the fact that they are terminally psychopathic idiots. And so the Neocon juggernaut thunders onward. A piece from yourself on the scary march of the Neocons would be welcomed by many.

  28. Someone earlier remarked that drones didnt just ‘appear’,that they’ve been planned for years.

    Where else did the gaming market spin-off from?

    Think Google Maps,flight sims on the PC and X-boxes etc were just a product for consumer hobbies?

  29. Clark,

    Your contributions on this site over years have been invaluable and much appreciated by the vast majority.

    Do take some time out if possible and know that you’re in our thoughts.

    Peace bro.

  30. Looks like Tom Watson put the cat amongst the pigeons at question time today.

    wonder if anything will change? Leveson needs to be challenged in his Inquiry about this stuff

  31. Looking at various court cases and politicians’ uttterances (or refusals to utter, for that matter)over the last few months, I get the impression that the masks and gloves are really coming off. What passes as duly constitued authority is basically putting two fingers up at the citizenry.
    Who agrees?

  32. @ 4.24 pm. Wonderful that Mark Golding. Could anybody portray the CIA other than negatively unless it is the CIA itself – and that’s disinformation.

    The plea-bargain aspect of the US legal system is its biggest shortcoming. Admit you’re guilty whether you are or not and you get a lighter sentence. Do not agree to a plea bargain and you’re locked away forever. That is why Theresa May has sent 5 UK Muslims who have never been charged in this country to the United States: so they can plea bargain their way into a guilty verdict, which could not happen over here. Doesn’t it disgust you?

  33. re the Savile case : BBC’s Helen Boaden steadfastly refuses to comment or give any statement about her role. Helen Boaden reportedly gets £354.000 a year (about 14 times average/median UK earnings)and, as she is paid by public funds, is a public servant. WTF ???????

  34. “I am concerned about Clark. What can we do to get him back?”

    Somehow I don’t think he wants to come back – as a moderator. I hope he comes back as a commenter, if/when he feels so inclined.

    Meanwhile, I’d be concerned about the workload on Jon. The number of comments here seems to have increased enormously (?) – even leaving aside the */** and al Hilli threads. And there are still adjustments to the code being requested (including by me on occasion.)

    I think there’s an assumption, by some, that a mod is on duty ~24 hours a day. And that has to stop. The mods are only voluntary after all.

    Just my 2c.

  35. I agree. Moderating here must be a time consuming and mostly thankless task. So let me add my thanks to Clark and Jon.

  36. You can only squeeze so much juice out of a cherry before it turns to mush, Dreolin, I join your concerns.

    Its not that there is a queue of IT savvy contenders for the job, well versed in most aspects of foreign policy, knowledgeable in open source software and encryption matters.

    What trust would we place in a completely new face we’d never knew?
    How would this change the unwritten symbiosis that seem to exist between us collectively, like a life form of its own?

  37. “I have yet to develop higher brain functions.” – you are not paying attention – are you Phil…

  38. Sadly not Ramon Zarate

    24 Oct, 2012 - 6:41 pm

    Sadly just because your right doesn’t stop you being cast as as a nutter. Ask around about who else went along with the Savile affair to keep their careers on track.

    best wishes.,don’t give up,


  39. Mark Golding – Children of Conflict 24 Oct, 2012 – 6:33 pm
    “You are not paying attention – are you Phil”

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at mate. What have I missed?

  40. It was interesting to note that the Pop-up Robin Wilcox appeared on TV to defend the Drones as a spokesperson for the Zionist and so called libertarian and protector of human rights
    The Henry Jackson society .What a Joke ! It is interesting to note the the characters behind the society.http://henryjacksonsociety.org/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Jackson_Society


  41. This is worth a watch.

    Lord of the Drones
    Written by Heathcote Williams; narration and visual montage by Alan Cox. Handsome Dog Productions, London/New York/Moscow: 





  42. A recent study from Stanford concluded that drone attacks are counterproductive for the US in the sense that the killing of muslim civilians in muslim countries creates the conditions for the killing of US civilians by ‘terrorists’ on American soil.

    So how can we explain the US government’s continued justification for their use in a pragmatic sense?

    My only rational explanation is that the US government regards the killing of US civlians on US soil as ‘a price worth paying’ in terms of what are perceived as the implementation of wider US strategic objectives in the region.

    If there is any doubt that the US establishment regards the killing of all civilians as merely a footnote in the pursuit of their long-term aims, then Greenwald’s piece removes all doubt.

  43. Dave Lawton

    You mean this dangerous indivudual? I see he is an expert on Alki Ada too.


    I wonder if he would like some of the same medicine that is being bestowed on the innocents by the USUKIsNATO axis? He has hate in his heart for the brown skinned people.

    Robin Simcox is a Research Fellow at the Henry Jackson Society. Beforehand, he was a Research Fellow at the Centre for Social Cohesion, a think tank studying extremism and terrorism in the UK. He has written for the likes of the Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Times, New Republic, Weekly Standard and the Guardian; and comments in the media for the likes of the BBC, Sky News, al-Jazeera and Fox News. Robin has spoken on a variety of platforms, including the British Parliament, US Special Operations Command and the European Parliament. Robin has an MSc in U.S. Foreign Policy from the Institute for the Study of Americas, University of London, and a BA in History (International) from the University of Leeds, which included a year at the University of Newcastle, Australia.
    His output

  44. Michael Stephenson

    24 Oct, 2012 - 9:19 pm

    Glenn Greenwalds article today is even more chilling:

    Its is a reaction to a Washington Post article on the creation of the “Disposition Matrix” a kind of “Kill List” 2.0:


  45. @ Mary
    “You mean this dangerous indivudual? I see he is an expert on Alki Ada too.”

    Thanks for your interesting comments Mary .

  46. Anybody know who the aide to the former PM was that Tom Watson said today at PMQ’s was connected to an international pedophile ring?

  47. Sorry for O/T: No mention just now on the main BBC news of Tom Watson’s question at today’s PMQs of a paedophile ring liked to the aide of a former Prime Minister. And yet they talk about an erosion of trust in the corporation! You really couldn’t script it.
    It’s also very convenient that CC Bettison has chosen today to resign. Another lying copper. Another generously feathered early retirement.
    The BBC’s piece on Savile tonight was rushed, stressing that the various inquiries should be allowed to take their course. A line is being drawn under this, and it may well be because it doesn’t stop at Savile. Who knows, it might make the Hollie Greig business look like a little local difficulty (except of course to the woman and her family)

  48. The best parallel with drones are the Terminator movies and the dystopic world they present. Given the fact that those building them desire drones to have the ability to “think” independently, that wolrd is a very distinct probability, and sooner than most think.

  49. Speaking of drones, I’m just now reading Daniel Klaidman’s Kill or Capture: The War on Terror and the Soul of the Obama Presidency, it’s far too favorably in my opinion to the Obama administration, but it’s nevertheless very informative. What’s particularly depressing in it is that, if the book is right, the Obama administration backed down on things like closing Guantanamo and trying accused terrorists in normal civilian trials because it saw too much political danger in it, because people in Congress opposed such plans because they believe the American people opposed them.

  50. Lysias @ 10.07

    There are probably more than one.

  51. “Anybody know who the aide to the former PM was…” (Lysias, 10.07 pm)

    However, The Independent understands that Mr Watson’s comments were not aimed at either Sir Edward (Heath) or Sir Peter (Morrison), but at a living person associated with Margaret Thatcher’s administration.


    The name of Leon Brittan has been borne to some on a light and deniable breeze. Allegedly.

  52. According to Wikipedia, Leon Brittan returned to government in August 2010 to act as a trade advisor to the new coalition government. Is he still serving in that capacity?

  53. Like you say Craig, the article says it all.

    How have we got to the posistion. Nothing can be done I fear,

    I am so ashamed that it we behave in this manner.

    Words can’t describe the content of that article.

  54. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    24 Oct, 2012 - 11:29 pm

    “However representative democracy (what is broadly understood by ‘western democracy’) has nearly exhausted its potential for further improvement.”


    Yes, the Great Experiment…. There is support for the notion some devolution is going on in US democracy, but let me ask you; When Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon man were competing for dominance of their environment, did Evolution stop? I suggest it is ongoing in spite of the premature obituary.

  55. Democracy does not have to be representative democracy, or at any rate democracy through elected representatives. Although the highest executive officials were elected in ancient Athens, the rest of the government was either direct democracy (all adult male citizens could attend the Assembly, and in practice an awful lot of them did) or representative through representatives chosen randomly, by lot, from all male citizens above the age of 30.

    I think Western countries should seriously consider adopting at least some of that system.

  56. My money’s on this guy (who claimed to be a Thatch advisor, but isn’t even mentioned in her memoirs) Literally swivel-eyed lunatic. Christopher “Lord” Monckton.


    Image is disturbing.

  57. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    24 Oct, 2012 - 11:58 pm


    Many of the same hijinks occurred in Grecian politics. Plato, observing wealthy candidates campaigning poor districts said:

    “Your vanity shows through every hole in your garments”.

  58. Ben F, Lysias
    Indeed – I have been banging on about it for years now. Representative democracy (parliamentary democracy / parliamentary rule or whatever else they call it) has been superseded, has evolved if you like, in some places. Most notably in Switzerland where they refer to their political system as Direct Democracy. The name is a little misleading since the Athenian democracy is the classical direct democracy. The Swiss system is in fact a representative democracy with direct democracy superimposed as back-up. It is a very effective system of government whatever metric you choose, when compared with the bog-standard ‘regular free elections + free speech’.

  59. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    25 Oct, 2012 - 12:26 am


    Athenian democracy excluded women, and those without military service, from voting. I understand now, that you mean the current dynamic of democracy has reached it’s peak of competence. What, short of Revolution, are the options?. Most I assume would require Amendments to the Constitution (a VERY high bar for our constituents), would they not?

  60. Jon, Clark, Mark G – thanks for your encouraging words on a previous thread. I, too, would like to stop by here more often but have very little time to myself these days. Clark – hope your troubles blow over soon, take care.

  61. Ben F,
    yes – revolutionary change no less but I think as societies democratise revolutions become less violent. E.g. I understand in Germany there is majority support in parliament for the introduction of Initiative & Referendum rights at state level. Progress is blocked by the Christian Democrats but in principle this could change. Other places where Direct Democracy has taken root recently are Uruguay and Venezuela to name but two examples. More info on the web, a good source is Initiative and Referendum Institute Europe (IRI-Europe). As Victor Hugo allegedly said – there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come. I’m feeling optimistic today :-)

  62. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    25 Oct, 2012 - 12:55 am

    Ev; Thank for direct responses to specific questions. It’s refreshing. Be careful about espousing the non-violent path, though. It’s not very appreciated here.

  63. “Disposition Matrix” eh?

    Well,it won’t happen tomorrow but,be in no doubt,soon enough,if this paradigm develops many posters on such sites as this will be in the crosshairs.

    You better believe it.

    Genuinely terrifying.

  64. A friend of mine has just built a hexacopter. Six rotors powered by a lithium battery that will keep it in the air for over 30 minutes carrying 1kg payload, probably about 20 km range. Arduino chip with onboard GPS, accelerometer, gyroscope and barometer controls stability and positioning.
    He uses it for aerial photography but you could give it a GPS position 10 miles away from you and have it release its cargo from a predetermined altitude.
    The mind boggles at the possibilities.
    They’ll ban them.

  65. Your welcome Evgueni –

    “we have to kill their children in order to protect our children” – thank-you for your kindness Craig. – “We have to murder a million to save the world” – clearly it is the same mind – the same set of conditioned thoughts as those who murder by proxy, remotely, detached; a game of death, a game of destruction where the pain is hidden, unseen – isolated by the aether, disconected by the mind.

    Those are the hands of death on the joystick – the ones that know not.

  66. Commesick Commesark

    25 Oct, 2012 - 6:56 am

    Practically speaking, the Savile dossier holding the names (and pics?) of the coprophiliacs,necrophiliacs & like in high places needs to be unearthed. Its powerful enough for lezi Bouden (and such in the upper echelons of the BBC) to have implored upon Peter Rippon to shelve any Newsnight revelations. It reeks of the complete and utter disdain of the chosenites for the goyim, especially the orphaned, mentally ill and even their dead corpses.

  67. We know that the use of drones by the US is counterproductive. So what is their pragmatic justification for continuing with the policy?

    The priorities of the US government appear to be the sublimation of humanitarian considerations with regards to both Pakistani muslim and American civilians, in favour of the overall attainment of geo-strategic imperatives.

    In other words, it would seem the US government regards the killing of civilians on both sides, as a ‘price worth paying’ in achieving these aims.

  68. English Knight.

    It is not about the quantity of “yids and gays“ im parliament, its the quality.

    If us Goyim showed a little more disdain on principles of morality then the said qualities of the quantities you highlight.

    So your point is relevant in terms that are not conducive to your point.

    So worry not.

  69. Re. “Lord” B’Stard Bichard’s own community service:

    1: Directorships

    Non-executive Director, Parker Capital Limited (provides support services to public sector)
    2: Remunerated employment, office, profession etc.

    Adviser, Cronin Management Consultants (consultancy advising Fire Services)

    Adviser, Ten Lifestyle Management Limited (company providing concierge services to public and private sectors)

    Adviser, The Design Council

    Editor, Solace Foundation Imprint (publication concerned with public service issues)

    Probably has to go to the food bank for a meal….

  70. Komodo. Yes I looked him up. Disgusting hypocrite. He has been a place person right enough.

    But never mind all this. Courage mes braves! Raise the union flags! Rejoice!

    THE RECESSION IS OVER. Really? Who says so? Cameron of course.


  71. O/T

    In Craig’s recent BBC interview with Kevin Essler on the Assange business, I felt that Craig’s microphone had been turned down so that his contributions were (acoustically) weaker than those of the other speakers. It seems that this is becoming a standard BBC tactic to discredit uncomfortable opinions. The ruse of aggressive and witless interruption was also evident in Craig’s interview.


  72. Hostages to fortune, eh? If it goes down next quarter, it’ll be a triple-dip recession, lol.

  73. Vronsky, I thought that in the Gavin Esler interview. It is quite clear by the very small number of invitations to participate in TV debates that such an influential commentator as Craig Murray gets, that the emphasis is heavily weighted against justice.

  74. A lesson in not answering a question. Yesterday’s PMQs.

    Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab):
    Can the Prime Minister explain the relationship between Virgin Care donations to the Tory party, the number of Virgin Care shareholders on clinical commissioning group boards and the number of NHS contracts that have been awarded to Virgin Care?

    The Prime Minister:
    All donations to political parties are properly disclosed and properly announced, but the difference, I have to say, between the donations that the Conservative party gets from individuals and businesses, and the trade unions’ donations to the Labour party is that they effectively buy votes at the Labour party’s conference and policies in its manifesto, and they vote for the Labour leader as well. The trade unions pay the money, they get the votes. That is the scandal in funding parties.

    A result. http://eoin-clarke.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/wow-all-300-virgin-doctors-resign-from.html

    Two of the many previous links on the same site about Virgin/Assura

    BBC accept their report of Virgin Court case was “flawed” and now report that Virgin Childcare deal was “unlawful”

    Virgin Care have links to 80+ of the doctors on 21 of the new NHS Bodies created by the Tory NHS Bill.

  75. BBC headlines

    Viable Afghanistan ‘may not work’
    The UK might have to recognise that creating a viable state in Afghanistan is not achievable, an influential group of MPs says.


    The Royal British Legion launches poppy appeal for 2012
    NEW 11 hours ago
    The Royal British Legion has launched this year’s poppy appeal with a target of £42m.

    No irony. Someone said yesterday on Radio 4 Today that the time has come round again for politicians to wear their poppies as a symbol of their own patriotic virility.

  76. I missed this one out.

    Two British deaths in Afghanistan
    25 October 2012 Last updated at 09:12
    A Royal Marine and a female soldier have been killed while on patrol in Afghanistan – the woman is the third who has died since the conflict began.

  77. however nice one tries, in plain words to make it obvious that Craig has not got all the answers, one gets censored for doing so.
    Fine, its his blog and he can lie on it as long as he likes.

    Lashing out at those who posted here for a while will not make the following sock puppets go away, but a sign up policy and a working brief for moderators might just do it.

    Sock puppets below ‘R’us…..

    Golden Oldies, McVities Digestives, Wagon Wheels, Apple Pies, Malted
    Milk, Sock Puppet (!), Tea Cakes, Propaganda class #1, Lemon Puffs, WTC7
    Controlled Demolition, Jim’ll Dick It, War Dance, *** ***, ***War Dance,
    ***Popular Belief, ***Yeah yeah, whatever…, ***Click Me (leading to page
    linked below), ***Crime against humainty, ***dn pǝssǝɯ ǝɹɐ noʎ,
    ***Israel Is Good…., ***In the land of the blind…., smelly pants,
    TwiterYeNot, lies enslave the mind, In 4 a penny in 4 a £, Some
    Truth For You, Nest of Cryptos, Full Spectrum Dominance, Dave and
    Nick suck bankers cock, The bleeding obvious, slapper,
    GoodGrief, DWTSOT, Piss Princess, DownWithThisSortOfThing, Toodledoo,
    and Mark.

  78. Savile dropping like a stone now on the BBC website. They’re clearly desperate to get rid of the story. Given the legs this is growing — pressure on Rippon from above, aide to former Prime Minister — this could do some real damage to the establishment. No wonder the corporation is running away from it. Instead, let’s revisit the Olympics, and how good it was for Britain…

  79. What Nevermind said. And you might also consider turning this into a forum. Which won’t take any more moderation, and it’s easier to access topics. Many of which die prematurely under the present system. Also, use captcha for registration at least.

  80. Thanks Komodo.

  81. O/T

    http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=289096 (some hilarious quotes here)

    Drivin’ that train
    High on cocaine
    Casey Jones you better
    watch your speed
    Trouble ahead
    Trouble behind
    and you know that notion
    just crossed my mind

  82. “What Nevermind said. And you might also consider turning this into a forum. Which won’t take any more moderation, and it’s easier to access topics. Many of which die prematurely under the present system. Also, use captcha for registration at least.”

    Yes, registered email addies should cut out a lot of sock puppets and spam, and make life easier for mods.
    I think there are a number of free forums available?
    http://proboards.com/ comes to mind (because I’ve used it) but there may well be better ones out there, known by others.

    But what happens to Craig’s posts then? Does he carry on posting here and do reactions/comments go on the forum?

  83. “you might also consider turning this into a forum.”


  84. Yes, a bit facile of me, sorry. I think it should be feasible on a standard (eg Runboard) forum for Craig (and maybe mods) to make it impossible for us plebs to start threads, which would only be started by admin (with the possibility of readers’ requests by on-site messaging facility). Then posting could be opened to the general public. The Portrait of Our Leader would remain, and there could additionally be a set of forum rules as a sticky thread. Threads can be locked by admin if they ramble on too much. Going wildly off-topic would be easier to discourage, I think.
    There may be an issue with servers, however. Probably best not to have a US-hosted board…

  85. Oh – and Our Leader’s book ads, of course.

  86. We could call it a blorum.

    *Gone, before I have to apologise*

  87. “Probably best not to have a US-hosted board…”

    Oh shit … Yes.

  88. One more thing – didn’t occur to me, but I think it’s a bonus. Some of us know each other’s email addresses, but by and large we can’t communicate readily with other posters. A message-board for registered users allows this without revealing email addresses. And puts like minds in touch.

  89. Good point ‘Nevermind’ sock-puppetry in teenage forums has lead to murder, suicide or rape.

  90. Michael Stephenson

    25 Oct, 2012 - 1:33 pm

    I wouldn’t use any free hosted forums, since this blog is powered by wordpress, the obvious choice is bbpress hosted on the same server as the blog.

  91. A forum with only Craig starting threads seems like a blog to me.

    private messaging might reinforce any club like feel. I really like the openness here.

    But I agree that registration will help the mods

  92. Know what you’re saying, Phil. I’m not really coming at it from “let’s start a forum” though. There are plenty of fora for people with coincident political views. But I’m thinking that this blog already resembles a forum in the number of comments and side-issues – and blatant irrelevancies – it attracts; perhaps it would work better in forum format. As to there being a “club” issue with messaging, well, yes. It’s possible. But I don’t think it would be a huge problem on the main board. Where alliances are also made, but with less discussion.

    Anyhow, it’s Craig’s blog and I’ve said more than enough on the subject.

  93. ‘My money’s on this guy (who claimed to be a Thatch advisor, but isn’t even mentioned in her memoirs) Literally swivel-eyed lunatic. Christopher “Lord” Monckton.’

    If we’re to look at the Lords for the ‘Thatcher aide’ referred to by Tom Watson yesterday this guy looks to be a better bet-


  94. McAlpine apparently lives in Australia now. I wonder how hard that would make it to prosecute him.

  95. doug scorgie

    25 Oct, 2012 - 4:08 pm

    Keir Starmer was the man in charge of the Crown Prosecution Service when the police submitted their file against Jimmy Savile in 2009.

    I find it incredible that the potential prosecution of a celebrity figure who had personal contacts with highly placed individuals like Mrs Thatcher; Prince Charles; Tony Blair; Ted Heath and many other members of the establishment, was not overseen by the Director of Public Prosecutions himself or that he was not, at least, informed of the details that the police had provided and the reasons for the CPS not prosecuting.

    Mr Starmer is now to investigate the organisation that he was in charge of at the time.

    I note that he has not yet received his knighthood.

  96. Spot on Doug Scorgie. More than 300 ‘victims’ so far identified. How come that chain of Director Generals and Chairman of the Governors (latterly trustees) at the BBC promoted Savile as a their brand leader for over 40 years when there was so much knowledge of the weirdo. It stinks.

    Qs. Was Savile hinself abused as a child? Did his mother know what he was up to? Probably no answers will be forthcoming. I read here that his great niece was abused by him when she was 12. Nobody took any notice of what she reported. The family members were all on his bandwagon presumably.


  97. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    25 Oct, 2012 - 4:27 pm


    Commentators at a blog I frequent communicate via email to discuss visitors not privy to the communique, and were effective at remaining unified in their strategy toward suspected or confirmed trolls.

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