The Disappearance of Craig Murray 134


Ian Cobain’s history of British state involvement in torture, “Cruel Britannia” – appears to have been radically censored between the review copies and publication.

This from Peter Oborne’s review of Cruel Britannia :

Some heroes do emerge from this sordid story. There is Lt Col Nicholas Mercer, the British army lawyer, who warned against the Iraqi atrocities. He was frozen out of the army and is now an Anglican priest. And Craig Murray, the British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was horrified by what he found out and lost his job.

While Nicholas Mercer’s own review has this:

At the same time, the few good men who do speak out know what fate will befall them. Craig Murray was drummed out of the Foreign Office for revealing Foreign Office connivance with torture evidence and Ben Griffin, the former SAS Trooper who spoke out against the UK treatment of prisoners in Afghanistan, is now living under a Government injunction which prevents him from speaking any further. If he breaks the terms of the injunction he will go to jail. In Cruel Britannia you can lose your job or go to jail for revealing UK complicity in torture and rendition. Those who are complicit meanwhile remain untouched and untroubled. The only tap on the shoulder is the sword used to knight them.

Yet the book as put on sale contains not one single mention of me or my evidence, and the book’s chapters on British complicity with torture in the war on terror are extremely short and scanty, given Cobain’s genuine wide knowledge and expertise in the subject.

For a book to be radically changed between the review copies and general release is very unusual. What exactly has happened here?

UPDATE Comment from Ian Cobain below states that I was never in the book. I should be interested in any further comment he has as to why it is so thin on recent torture; there is a great deal of fascinating and directly relevant stuff that I know he knows that is not there.


134 thoughts on “The Disappearance of Craig Murray

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  • Mary

    And a very similar scenario is taking place in Amerika.

    08, 2013

    Share on facebook Share on twitter Share on google More Sharing Services 6

    Social Security Will Soon be Under Attack
    When Wall Street Pulls the Strings

    by DAVE LINDORFF

    The all-out assault on Social Security has begun.

    The set-up for the big battle was the Fiscal Cliff charade. That hyped drama in the last days of December was a moment of truth for the Democratic Party and for President Barack Obama to make it clear whether they were still defenders of the New Deal legacy, or whether they were ready to toss Social Security overboard on behalf of the party’s new constituency: the Wall Street gang.

    The president and the Democrats in House and Senate could have said there would be no deal on the artificial Fiscal Cliff that was created by Congress back in August 2011 unless Congressional Republicans agreed not to hold the nation hostage again this February over the issue of raising the national debt ceiling. Republicans were in a weak position, since if the “cliff” deadline were allowed to pass, the Bush tax cuts would have expired. They would have been put in the position of being unable to pass new legislation restoring tax cuts for the wealthy, while Democrats could have forced them to pass tax cuts for those in the middle and lower classes.

    Instead of doing that, the president and his vice president, former Senator from the über-corporate headquarters state of Delaware, Joe Biden, offered a “compromise” that give tax breaks to the 1% of Americans who earn between $250,000 and $400,000 a year, protected up to $5 million in estate value from inheritance taxes, gave corporations billions of dollars in new tax loopholes, and left the GOP free to hold Congress and the Country hostage in February and March when Congress has to pass a new increase in the debt ceiling.
    /..
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/01/08/when-wall-street-pulls-the-strings/

  • Habbabkuk

    Mary wrote : “At least there is one dissenter in the nasty and cruel ‘Koalition'”

    Mary, could you enlighten us on why you chose to spell coalition with a capital K ?

  • Habbabkuk

    Reading carefully the comments in the various recent threads, there’s obviously a fair amount of sympathy abroad for President Assad. Not, of course, that anyone has the balls to come out and say “President Assad is a good guy”, but the effect is achieved indirectly by loud and indignant condemnations of western and American support for his enemies and their works.

    Let’s tell it how it is. President Assad’s father was a long-lived, bloodthirsty, self-enriching dictator. To compound the offence, he had the cheek to see Syria as so much his own property that he ensured that the management of the country stayed in the family (first his elder son, then the current young Assad. The latter is as nasty a bit od work as his late father.

    So let us drop all this covert sympathy for the Young Tyrant and look forward to his impending removal from power. With any luck, he will be caught before he manages to flee the country and given the Gaddafi treatment.

  • Michael Culver

    Do get better soon Craig Murray,the saner among our countrymen need you .I have asked many and often why there have been no prosecutions against bliar et al,the answer is apparently to be found in the I.C.C. Act where it quite clearly states that those guilty of torture, war crimes and Genocide must be arraigned up to and including the Head of State, which of course in our case means the queen. Yes read it and understand who the sadistic politicians are relying upon to cover their arses. As to the disgusting Kenyan & other horror stories I would suggest that the F.O. Is from now on known as The Fuck’em and Castrate ’em Office. Hitler wanted a thousand year Reich well we have had one for over a thousand years and we have used exactly the same ‘Control’ methods,torture,concentration of wealth and of course endless laws to keep the people in their place.How to break this straight jacket is the real question.v

  • Anon

    With any luck, he will be caught before he manages to flee the country and given the Gaddafi treatment.

    Well Habbabkuk, that pretty much pins down your personality type – in case there was the slightest doubt.

    Personally I would not wish that fate on anyone – not even a mentally ill, potentially dangerous sociopath such as yourself.

    Tortured anyone to death yourself or do you just get your kicks from others doing it for you?

  • Castellio

    Here is a step by step breakdown of the collective actions leading to the occupation of Liberty Square which was the “launch” of the OWS movement.

    The relation of it to Anonymous will become apparent for those who read it. I currently think this a “fairly accurate and comprehensive” picture, if not the entire one.

    This is derived almost entirely from a close reading of a history of the movement written by David Degraw http://ampedstatus.org/a-report-from-the-frontlines-the-long-road-to-occupywallstreet-and-the-origins-of-the-99-movement/

    1. On February 15th, 2010, AmpedStatus.com published the first-part of an extensive six-part series detailing the financial destruction of the US economy. The report is entitled, “The Economic Elite Vs. The People of the United States.” The first sentence reads: “It’s time for 99% of Americans to mobilize and aggressively move on common sense political reforms.”…. The harsh truth is that 99% of the US population no longer has political representation… The US economy, government and tax system are now blatantly rigged against us. http://ampedstatus.org/full-report-the-economic-elite-vs-the-people-of-the-united-states-of-america/

    2. AlterNet.org featured an adapted excerpt from the report. It became one of the most popular reports that they have ever published. In aggregate, across many websites that have published sections of the report, it has received an estimated five million page views. http://www.alternet.org/economy/145667/the_economic_elite_have_engineered_an_extraordinary_coup,_threatening_the_very_existence_of_the_middle_class?page=entire

    3. Soon after the report was released, AmpedStatus formed the 99% Movement based on a general platform put forth in part-six of the report, entitled “How to Fight Back and Win: Common Ground Issues That Must Be Won.”

    4. As the movement began to build over the course of the next ten months, the AmpedStatus.com website was attacked and repeatedly knocked offline. The source of the attacks remains unknown. As AmpedStatus was pushing for a decentralized global rebellion against Wall Street and actively supporting the Egyptian uprising against the IMF and Federal Reserve, the attacks on the site escalated.

    5. When no one else with the needed technical expertise would help us and it became apparent that we would have to shut down our operation, several Anonymous members stepped up and offered to support and defend AmpedStatus.com from further attacks. They assisted in setting up a new hosting account and helped develop a new Independent social network for the 99% Movement.

    6. AmpedStatus then released another extensive report in February, 2011 entitled, Analysis of the Global Insurrection Against Neo-Liberal Economic Domination and the Coming American Rebellion – We Are Egypt http://ampedstatus.org/analysis-of-the-global-insurrection-against-neo-liberal-economic-domination-and-the-coming-american-rebellion-we-are-egypt-revolution-roundup-3/

    7. In previous Revolution Roundups, before we were knocked offline, we featured mass protests by the people of Ireland, Italy, Britain, Austria, Greece, France and Portugal. North African and Middle Eastern nations joined the movement as the people of Egypt, Tunisia, Jordan, Morocco, Gabon, Mauritania, Yemen, Bahrain, Libya, Palestine, Iraq, Sudan and Algeria took to the streets en masse. http://ampedstatus.org/revolution-roundup-2-as-mass-rebellion-spreads-throughout-europe-americans-dance-with-the-stars/

    8. Within the report (#6), there was a section calling for an occupation of Wall Street, in what is referred to as “The Empire State Rebellion.” http://ampedstatus.org/analysis-of-the-global-insurrection-against-neo-liberal-economic-domination-and-the-coming-american-rebellion-we-are-egypt-revolution-roundup-3/#empire

    9. A sub-group within Anonymous then joined with the AmpedStatus 99% Movement and we began a collaborative effort known as A99.

    10. On Mar 12, 2011, Anonymous A99 announced their first operation by posting a video to the AmpedStatus YouTube page. The effort was called “Operation Empire State Rebellion” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D6neBzTnOQ

    11. “We are a decentralized non-violent resistance movement, which seeks to restore the rule of law and fight back against the organized criminal class. One-tenth of one percent of the population has consolidated wealth in unprecedented fashion and launched an all-out economic war against 99.9% of the population. We are not affiliated with either wing of the two-party oligarchy. We seek an end to the corrupted two-party system by ending the campaign finance and lobbying racket. Above all, we aim to break up the global banking cartel centered at the Federal Reserve, International Monetary Fund, Bank of International Settlements and World Bank. … As a first sign of good faith, we demand Ben Bernanke step down as Federal Reserve chairman. Until our demands are met and rule of law is restored, we will engage in a relentless campaign of non-violent, peaceful, civil disobedience.”

    12. Economic news site ZeroHedge quickly picked up the video and featured it on their site with the headline, “Hacker Group Anonymous Brings Peaceful Revolution To America: Will Engage In Civil Disobedience Until Bernanke Steps Down.” The video then went viral and got over 225,000 views. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/hacker-group-anonymous-brings-peaceful-revolution-america-will-engage-civil-disobedience-unt

    13. On March 23rd, Anonymous issued a press release calling for a “US Day of Rage.” The phrase, “A day of rage,” has been a rallying cry used in uprisings spreading throughout the Middle East. A new USDayofRage.org website was launched and their first press release, again quickly picked up by ZeroHedge, called for a day of mass action and pledged their support of A99′s general platform. http://www.scribd.com/doc/51432365/an-open-letter-to-us-citizens

    14. Throughout April and May, members of A99 were organizing and debating future actions. They decided that American Flag Day, June 14th, would be an appropriate time to launch actions. They also set up several new Facebook pages, such as “#OpESR – Operation Empire State Rebellion Amped.” https://www.facebook.com/OpESR

    15. On June 11th, Anonymous A99 released the video “OpESR Communication #2: Ctrl+Alt+Bernanke.” To make their case, they present a list of Federal Reserve actions.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XySGw-g2tyk&feature=related

    16. Once again, the video was posted to the AmpedStatus YouTube and ZeroHedge picked it up. The video went viral attracting over 360,000 views on the AmpedStatus YouTube account alone. It became popular enough to break through and get some coverage from the mainstream corporate media, including MSNBC, Time, Bloomberg and Forbes.

    17. As part of Operation Empire State Rebellion, there was a call for a group of people to occupy Liberty Park, a strategic public space close to Wall Street and the New York Federal Reserve building, until Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke would step down. This Anonymous statement was released: http://ampedstatus.org/activists-to-occupy-financial-districts-liberty-park-until-demands-are-met-operation-empire-state-rebellion-begins/

    18. With only 16 people showing up On June 14th at Liberty Park, and only four prepared to occupy it, this part of the day’s actions were considered by some to be a failure.

    19. Anonymous A99 issued an extensive report detailing the days (June 14th) actions: “OpESR Status Update: Empire State Rebellion Day 1.” In the report, the section on occupying Liberty Park reads: “The most ambitious ground operation launched on Day 1 was in New York City’s Financial District, just a few blocks from Wall Street, at Liberty Park. While this operation was a fail due to lack of participants, we want to thank the event organizer Gary Roland and the three other people who were prepared to occupy the park: David DeGraw, Oren Clark and Kevin Dann. http://ampedstatus.org/opesr-status-update-empire-state-rebellion-day-1/

    20. On the very same day as the launch of the Empire State Rebellion and the failed Liberty Park action, there was a group of activists assembling down the road from Liberty Park. They were preparing to set up camp in what became known as Bloombergville to protest against New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s budget cuts. Gary Roland, after leaving Liberty Park with a feeling of frustration, joined the Bloomberg protests. http://bloombergvillenow.org/

    21. During the Bloomberg protests a group of activists, including Gary Roland, formed a People’s General Assembly, which eventually evolved into the New York City General Assembly (NYCGA), to facilitate an organized non-violent movement. They build a large turnout through grassroots community-based organizing. (not just YouTube hits – off line so to speak) http://www.nycga.net/about//

    22. As the debate among Anonymous A99 was happening about a date for the occupation, Adbusters magazine issued a call for an occupation of Wall Street to start on September 17th. With the NYCGA focused on community-based organizing, Adbusters, Anonymous, AmpedStatus, A99, US Day of Rage, WagingNonViolence and many other sites actively pushed the message online. WeAreThe99Percent.com and OccupyWallSt.org were then Independently launched to directly support the action. Indymedia’s Global Revolution media team provided a livestream video feed to cover the event, which inspired many more people to come and join once it had begun. http://ampedstatus.org/network/members/admin/activity/39873

    23. It was this confluence of decentralized independent groups and thousands of individuals taking it upon themselves to take action that helped make the successful occupation of Liberty Park possible….as one of them said “If you are looking to contact one of our leaders, go to the nearest mirror and peer deeply into it.”

  • Ex Pat

    SRI LANKA

    The British Empire in Ceylon – now Sri Lanka.

    Murder, disappearing people, torturing-to-death, genocide, ethnic cleansing, death-squads, war crimes and crimes against humanity. Gee, is there a pattern here? (No change there, then! Ed.)

    – “When Pigs Fly – and Scold – the British Empire in Sri Lanka,” by Gary Brecher” – ‘the War Nerd’ – 22nd May, 2009 – The Exiled –

    http://exiledonline.com/when-pigs-fly-and-scold-brits-lecturing-sri-lanka/all/1/

    KENYA

    Previously – Kenya – It’s an Empire. Not a sewing circle. The British Empire ran on Torture and Silence about Torture, says the War Nerd.

    The War Nerd – “Gary Brecher” wrote an excellent article based on Caroline Elkins’s book –

    – “Monty Python Burning Kikiyu Skit” by Gary Brecher – 14th April 2011 – The Exiled –

    http://exiledonline.com/wn-day-25-monty-python-burning-kikuyu-skit/

    Who is the War Nerd? “Gary Brecher” – Fresno file clerk and blood and gore ‘War Nerd’? Rumour has it that English professor John Dolan might know. But he’s not telling. So far!

    John Dolan did a fascinating interviewer with British journalist and Oxbridge historian Philip Short. Who may or may not be the “Johnny English of Cambridge”. The only radio interview John Dolan ever did for The Exiled, but it’s a corker!

    Pol Pot, Mao in China, Kuomintang women-torturing warlords and Idy Amin as an “eat more” luncheon host! Did Philip Short have spook connections? In the Kenya story – link above – the War Nerd suggests that _all_ Oxbridge historians do. But judge for yourself!

    – John Dolan Talks Genocide & Monsters with Pol Pot Biographer Philip Short – April 10, 2009, – The Exiled –

    http://exiledonline.com/exiled-radio-host-john-dolan-talks-genocide-monsters-with-pol-pot-biographer-philip-short/

    More

    Needless to say the War Nerd was quite pithy about the Cheney junta’s adventure murdering millions of Afghans and Iraqis. –

    The War Nerd – The Exiled –

    http://exiledonline.com/cat/war-nerd/

    British comedian John Oliver from the Daily Show – on Tea Parties and how a real Empire works –

    “We slaughtered 30 million Indians. Mostly one at a time by bayonetting them. That’s how a real Empire does it.” (paraphrased) –

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=224276&title=tea-party-tyranny

  • macky

    @Anon,

    What you fail to appreciate, is that people like Habbabkuk, are so righteously perfect & beyond Goodness itself, that they can afford to bask in the base enjoyment of torture & murder, without it tarnishing their perfect self-righteousness, not even by one little speck.

  • Mary

    Koalition kracking up is kracking me up. Two Lords a leaping in two days. Excellent.

    Lord Marland stands down as business minister
    Lord Marland previously worked as an insurance executive

    Lord Marland has become the second Tory minister in the House of Lords to stand down in a matter of days.

    No 10 said the business minister had resigned from his position to “focus on his role in trade promotion”.

    A former Conservative Party treasurer, Lord Marland became a peer in 2006 and has held a number of jobs, first in opposition and then in the coalition.

    His decision follows that of Lord Strathclyde to quit as Lords leader after 14 years on the Tory front bench.
    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20950693

  • Habbabkuk

    The part of my comment which Anon and Macky chose to focus on identifies them as supporters of the Young Tyrant.

    Thank you for your free psycho-analysis of my sadistic character, Anon and Macky. But more importantly, any comment on the Assad family’s well-documented, decades-long torture activities?

  • Jives

    Ian Duncan Smith was unemployed once.He joined the Conservative party during this spell.

    Then he got a job for Marconi selling armaments.

    From which he joined a property company from which he was made redundant after 6 months.

    He then joined Jane’s Information Group,selling gun related magazines.

    There seems to have been some doubt over the accuracy of his CV.He didn’t,as he claimed,attend Perugia University.Turns out he’d actually attended Universita per Stranieri-which did not grant degrees at that time…

    A claim he attended Dunchurch College Of Management was also incorrect.He in fact attended a Marconi staff course over some weekends.

    He is a Roman Catholic.

    A curious trajectory,some might say.

  • Habbabkuk

    “Koalition kracking up is kracking me up”.

    A lot of “k”s all of a sudden, Mary. Are you trying to drown the racist tinge implied by your use of “Koalition” earlier on?

    Sir Nicholas Ridley couldn’t have done better (I’m sure you’re old enough to remember him).

  • Habbabkuk

    Don’t be so silly, Jives. And tune down the fake indignation.

    So IDS has had several jobs and attended a number of courses intended to further his education.

    What’s wrong with that, and why do you find it “curious”?

    Would you say that IDS is more “curious” than you, I wonder?

  • Mary

    No. I am enjoying seeing my attempt to wind you up having success. I will tell you one day, if you persist in hanging around here, why I use the word Koalition and not coalition. Stop wasting Craig’s bandwidth btw. I won’t tell you again.

  • Habbabkuk

    Mary : I think you used “Koalition” before you attempted to wind me up. Do I detect a mean little attempt to tar the coalition by using language designed to evoke the Germans (the Third Reich, even)? Wouldn’t surprise me, you committed professional lefties are all little Englanders deep down. 🙂

    Re. wasting bandwidth – what with all those moans and complaints, all that high moral indignation, I think you do slightly more posting than I do. Nicht wahr?

  • exexpat

    Why can’t you just lurk moar Habbabkuk?
    You offer nothing except trolling. why haven’t you been banned from posting here?

  • Ex Pat

    THE LONDON CAGE

    Nicholas Mercer’s review – link above, and below – refers to the London Cage.

    Ian Cobain got an excellent article about it into the Daily Heil, probably to help induce barking mad Reich-wing feelings in the Daily Heil’s mindless xenophobic readership. But it’s the only place anything was published on it, so perhaps we should take what we can get and be grateful for that little bit.

    Where does Ian Cobain’s information come from? Actually from the London Cage’s commanding officer. Who wrote a book on it. A very detailed book!

    Colonel Alexander Scotland terrified the Army Council – the supreme heads of the British Army – by submitting his book for review before it was published. From Ian Cobain’s book. –

    “The War Office and Foreign Office officials, the men from MI5 and the government lawyers who read the manuscript were all in agreement: police must be dispatched at once to raid Scotland’s home, and more men sent to the offices of John Farquharson Ltd, and the proposed publisher, Evans Brothers. Every copy of the manuscript must be seized immediately. All those who knew of its contents must be silenced, if necessary by threat of prosecution and imprisonment under the Official Secrets Act.”

    “This was exactly what happened.”

    From the Daily Mail –

    “Appalled by the embarrassment his manuscript would cause if it ever came out, the War Office and the Foreign Office both declared that it would never see the light of day.”

    “Two years later, however, they were forced to strike a deal with him after he threatened to publish his book abroad. He was told he would never be allowed to recover his original manuscript, but agreement was given to a rewritten version in which every line of incriminating material had been expunged.”

    _One_ original, unedited copy was deposited in the National Archives in Kew where Ian Coban located it.

    You can read the story of the London Cage for yourself through the wonders of Amazon.co.uk’s Look Inside feature. That story is the entire preview! It’s a great story. But judge for yourself! ; ) (*)

    – “Cruel Britannia – A Secret History of Torture,” by Ian Cobain – Amazon.co.uk

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cruel-Britannia-Secret-History-Torture/dp/1846273331

    – “How Britain Tortured Nazi POWs – The horrifying interrogation methods that belie our proud boast that we fought a clean war,” by Ian Cobain – 26th October 2012 The Daily Heil (ER, Mail? Ed.) –

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223831/How-Britain-tortured-Nazi-PoWs-The-horrifying-interrogation-methods-belie-proud-boast-fought-clean-war.html

    Nicholas Mercer’s review –

    http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/nicholas-mercer/cruel-britannia-secret-history-of-torture

    (*) Peter Cook – ‘Biased Judge’ – Youtube –

    Another side of the British establishment that apparently came as a surprise to some, but not apparently to this audience. And hopefully not to you either! ; ) –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyos-M48B8U

  • Ex Pat

    THANK YOU FOR SHILLING !!! ?

    A brief perusal of this thread would appear to support the thesis that there are multiple shills on Craig’s website and that their purpose is a) to discourage and b) to make impossible any useful exchange of information or views. Hence the endless posting and the trivia.

    No change there, then!

    Previously –

    “In my view most (Many? The most frequent?) commentators on Craig Murray’s website are shills. They post and post but always content with zero useful information.

    “You and/or the other apparent shills seem to work to fill the channel with white noise. Rubbish in other words.”

    “I work diametrically oppositely, to throw a very little useful information into the data stream.”

    “Which is usually followed by one or more shills immediately throwing in more rubbish, in order to bury it. The more so if it is in anyway useful. Which process is a useful indicator of effectiveness, or not. If tiresome.”

    “I’m not planning on changing my preference for useful information over white noise and/or shilling – official or voluntary – any time soon.”

    QED.

    From looking back over this thread, where most of the comments have zero to do with the topic and there is nary a moderator in sight and certainly not doing anything useful.

  • Habbabkuk

    @ Ex Pat : it’s an attractive theory. I certainly agree that there are a few shills serving the purpose you outline. But I suspect the majority of the “regulars’ are merely obsessives (some of them very angry, frustrated obsessives) who choose this activity in an attempt to somehow affirm themselves.

    Have you noticed, btw, that the largest threads in terms of reader comments are those which touch on the Middle East, the near East and any event that could be interpreted as a conspiracy. By contrast, Craig’s observations on Africa (to take a recent example) excite no interest at all.

  • macky

    Habbabkuk; “Thank you for your free psycho-analysis of my sadistic character”

    Here’s some more freebie PA, courtesy of Midnight Express;

    “What has upset you? Oh! I know. The bad machine doesn’t know that he’s a bad machine. You still don’t believe it. You still don’t believe you’re a bad machine? To know yourself is to know God, my friend”

  • Habbabkuk

    Thanks, Macky.

    Still nothing to say on torture by the Assad regime (father and son)?

  • macky

    Habbabkuk; “Still nothing to say on torture by the Assad regime (father and son)?”

    Yes, unfortunately Evil exists in this world; and it manifests itself in a myriad of ways, such as advocating death & destruction on a whole Country, or expressing a desire to see somebody tortured to death.

  • Habbabkuk

    So Macky sees Evil – note the capital letter, it’s impressive – in the Syrian opposition (“..advocating death and destruction on a whole Country..”) and in poor little Habbabkuk, but not, apparently, in the Assad dictators (father and son).

    So that’s Macky well exposed 🙂

  • macky

    Habbabkuk; “So that’s Macky well exposed :)”

    Either you are a troll or just plain thick, either way you really are too supid to engage with, more fool me for responding, but don’t expect me to bother again.

    I second Ex Pats verdict on you; “You offer nothing except trolling. why haven’t you been banned from posting here?”

    A very good question indeed !

  • Habbabkuk

    Well, Macky, Ex Pat, et al : your definition of a troll is obviously someone who has the temerity to point out the foolishness, or hypocrisy, or confused thinking, or wilful misrepresentation, or the sly hints which feature largely in many of the comments on this board.

    Understand the following : you have the entire right to spice your comments with any or indeed all of the flaws I itemize above. But since you choose to broadcast those comments to the wide world, then you must be prepared to meet constructive criticism and, even, to be told that you are wrong. Now I know it’s easier to dish it out, as you so enthusiastically do, than to take it, but that’s how it is on a public blog.

    Capeesh?

    (BTW, the remedy is not censorship (how typical of you “democrats” to call for that!) but putting a little more moderation, care, thought and intellectual effort into your comments)

  • thatcrab

    Re Habbabkuks incessant quibbles and jibes:
    I think the reason why they haven’t been blocked, is for so clearly being the kind of professional commenter which is discussed and wondered about. There is no need to wonder about habbabkuk comments, there is just a case to be examined.
    This issue of whether or not to block is, are they managing to be more disruptive than they are being revealing? That almost all of the arguments are personal and rhetorical reveals how uncomfortable they themselves are with the rationales which they are employed to divert away from.
    But I think there is a certain level of diversionary quibbling which an admin has to suspend for practicality no matter how important an example it may be. If Jons desired standards of conduct were being observed better by familiar commenters (myself included) we might make that distinction between unfamiliar or moody comments, and plain irritation to distract easier to call.

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