Of This I Am Proud

by craig on March 15, 2013 8:28 am in Uncategorized

I am proud of the company I was in of fellow Sam Adams winners; but also because in the circumstances I think this was the best speech I have ever made. If you listen from 15 minutes, the enthusiastic and sustained interruption of applause I received from the Oxford Union for my attack on those demonstrating against Julian Assange is remarkable.

It particularly explodes the appalling lies of the Guardian’s shrill hate campaign against Julian Assange, which you will recall covered this event under the headline Julian Assange finds no allies and tough queries in Oxford University talk . It has taken the Oxford Union two months to post this video, and then unlike other newly posted videos it does not appear on the front page of their youtube site.

The students no longer have any autonomy in the the Oxford Union where speakers and videos have to be approved in advance by a solidly and uniformly right wing board of trustees which includes William Hague and Louise Mensch.

It is, however, even at this belated time, a great pleasure to be able again to state and to demonstrate what a vicious little liar Amelia Hill is.

After my point on the Assange demonstration, you could have heard a pin drop for the rest of my talk and I was unsure how the audience were reacting. Unfortunately the video cuts off the peroration, so you will have to take my word for it that the applause was very big and after resuming my seat I had to half stand and acknowledge again. But I had concluded by introducing Julian Assange, so that may have been for him not me – I would be just as pleased.

Let me post this one again so you have the pair of me on consecutive nights in very different moods.

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321 Comments

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  1. Good speech from that Michael Craig bloke.

  2. Of YOU we are proud Craig and of your fellow speakers including Annie, Co Ann Wright and the other fine Americans including the US Ambassador to Greece who resigned at the outset of the Iraq war, John Brady Kiesling. His resignation letter to Colin Powell below.

    The wrong people are, and have been, in power. I compare the stature that you possess, and the others who were there that night, to the squirming of the lying creature that Alex Thomson interviewed on Channel 4 last night, Straw.

    PS Why do they label you Michael Craig on the video?

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOnFreedom/message/759

  3. Craig’s speech on winning the Sam Adams Award for 2005. Transcript.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2006/05/craig_murray_on_2/

  4. The CIA list of tortured confessions is probably the reason so many innocent people have been wasted in Guantanamo Bay – a blight on the planet.

  5. The Sam Adams in whose name the award is given.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_A._Adams

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Adams_Award

    Did you get the candlestick referred to Craig?

  6. Craig’s quote of William Gladstone:

    Remember the rights of the savage, as we call him. Remember that the happiness of his humble home, remember that the sanctity of life in the hill villages of Afghanistan, among the winter snows, is as inviolable in the eye of Almighty God as can be your own.

    Those hill tribes had committed no real offence against us. We, in the pursuit of our political objects, chose to establish military positions in their country. If they resisted, would not you have done the same? … The meaning of the burning of the village is, that the women and the children were driven forth to perish in the snows of winter … Is that not a fact ?” for such, I fear, it must be reckoned to be ?” which does appeal to your hearts as women … which does rouse in you a sentiment of horror and grief, to think that the name of England, under no political necessity, but for a war as frivolous as ever was waged in the history of man, should be associated with consequences such as these?

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/04/the_goebbels_te/

    Look at all the references to “militant compounds” in this list of drone strikes upon Pakistan:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Drone_Strikes_in_Pakistan

  7. We are very proud of it too :)

  8. A new structure is required to organise the secret intelligence agencies and the information of which they are custodians. I have two tentative ideas. One is to interleave an oppositional or adversarial structure into the secret intelligence agencies. The other is separation of data from structure.

    Each member of each secret intelligence agency could be “shadowed” by a member in a new structure, a civilian intelligence disclosure agency. To balance the Official Secrets Act regulating the secret agents, disclosure agents would be bound by a Public Interest Disclosure Act to reveal anything that might affect the interests of the population.

    Encryption technology could be used such that the secret agent and their shadow, disclosure agent would never discover who their opposite number was. The two would have access to the same set of files, but data, such as the names of sources, the nature of threats, would all be hidden behind code-numbers, but revealable through disclosure of an encryption key.

    Working together, members of the disclosure agency would reconstruct the dynamics of the structure of the cases that the secret agencies were building. Any discrepancy or sudden discontinuity, such as formerly trusted a source suddenly being ignored, or a source routinely treated as marginally reliable suddenly gaining undue significance within evaluations, would thus be visible to the disclosure agency. If the secret agencies began to “fix intelligence to match policy”, it would not be possible to conceal this from the disclosure agency.

    Sharing of files between each secret agent and his disclosure agent would ensure that records outside the secret agencies were updated in real-time. Thus, retroactive editing of records would not be protected by a cloak of secrecy.

    It would take a better mind than mine to develop such ideas into something that could actually work. But I am convinced that integrity in intelligence is too important to be left as a matter of personal morality. Some sort of structure is needed to enforce integrity.

  9. Mary linked to the Wikipedia entry for Sam Adams. My quick look through the article’s history revealed that the following link was removed in 2009:

    http://www.clemson.edu/caah/history/facultypages/EdMoise/ob.html

    Removal of sourced material from Wikipedia is classed as “vandalism”. Removal is particularly odd in this case because the link is to an educational source, as preferred by Wikipedia’s policies, and contains many further links that would be of interest with regard to the Vietnam war and Ellsberg’s Pentagon Papers.

  10. ‘Unmitigated Disaster’: Iraq’s Pain Has Only Intensified Since US-Led Invasion in 2003.

    The country of my birth, already so damaged, is now crippled by fear of all-out civil war. But in the people there is hope.

    by Sami Ramadani

    https://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/03/14-0

    Also in The Guardian:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/14/iraq-pain-2003-civil-war

  11. Let’s hope that the $6bn loss reported by JP Morgan seriously affects the pocket of their stooge, Bliar.

    JP Morgan accused of hiding losses by Senate report
    JP Morgan logo JP Morgan lost $6.2bn as a result of the scandal

    Related Stories
    Fed approves most bank capital plans
    UBS banker gets $26m ‘golden hello’
    JP Morgan to cut up to 19,000 jobs

    US bank JPMorgan Chase has been accused of hiding its huge trading losses by a US Senate panel.
    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21795662

    More on the crooks.
    http://m.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/mar/14/jpmorgan-senate-investigation-london-whale

  12. Q. Was Sam Adams’ death natural?

    Samuel Adams, Ex-C.I.A. Officer And Libel Case Figure, Dies at 54
    http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/11/obituaries/samuel-adams-ex-cia-officer-and-libel-case-figure-dies-at-54.html

    Clark Ref the alteration to the Wikipedia page on Sam Adams.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Samuel_A._Adams&action=history

    I was trying to work out who removed it and when. I get a bit lost on that edit/history page. Thanks.

  13. Related to Mary’s JP Morgan comment:

    [even more on the crooks:]

    Senate “Whale” Report Reveals JP Morgan as a Lying, Scheming Rogue Trader (Quelle Surprise!); Naked Capitalism; 3/15/13

  14. We are proud of Craig Murray.

    Hand on heart for Annie Wright.

    At age 66yrs this women has fire, passion and vigor. An intensity demonstrated in 2005 when Annie interrupted a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing, shouting at Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, “Stop the war! Stop the killing!” Wright was uneventfully escorted out of the hearing room.

    Likewise in 2007 Annie was arrested, and later convicted, for disrupting a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing at which general David Petraeus and Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker were testifying.

    http://warisacrime.org/node/29163

  15. Papal Torture – Catholic Big Brother?

    According to lawyer Myriam Bregman: “Bergoglio’s (Pope Francis) own statements proved church officials knew from early on that the junta was torturing and killing its citizens, and yet publicly endorsed the dictators. “The dictatorship could not have operated this way without this key support…”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/washingtons-pope-who-is-francis-i-cardinal-jorge-mario-bergoglio-and-argentinas-dirty-war/5326675

    “Whoever becomes the new pope will find himself in a position of almost limitless power as the earthly head of the Roman Catholic church. He’ll get to see the whole world, albeit behind a sheet of bulletproof glass, and 1.2 billion believers will hang upon his every word until the day he dies. But then again, the winner of Big Brother will probably release a fitness DVD and have a ghostwritten column in New magazine. It’s hard to say which of these we should be more envious of.”

    Stuart Heritage

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/stuart-heritage

  16. Quite telling. From that link Mark.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bergogliovidela-300×168.jpg
    Holy Communion for the Dictators (image right: General Jorge Videla takes communion from priest Jorge Mario Bergoglio)

    I suppose the message is that all sinners are redeemed, just like Murphy O’Connor admitted Bliar to the church. Widdecombe too became a catholic. She voted STRONGLY for Bliar’s Iraq war.

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/ann_widdecombe/maidstone_and_the_weald#votingrecord

    ~~~

    Agent Cameron has been in Brussels speaking up for arming the rabble rebels, along with his mate François Hollande. They salivate and lust for war and never learn any lessons.

  17. Another proponent for the Iraq War was Eric Joyce, MP Falkirk.

    Voting record (from PublicWhip)
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/eric_joyce/falkirk#votingrecord

    How Eric Joyce voted on key issues since 2001:
    Voted moderately for replacing Trident. votes
    Voted a mixture of for and against a smoking ban. votes
    Voted strongly against increasing the rate of VAT. votes
    Voted strongly for introducing ID cards. votes
    Voted moderately for university tuition fees. votes
    Voted against raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year. votes
    Voted strongly for allowing ministers to intervene in inquests. votes
    Voted a mixture of for and against removing hereditary peers from the House of Lords. votes
    Voted moderately for a wholly elected House of Lords. votes
    Voted a mixture of for and against a transparent Parliament. votes
    Voted very strongly for Labour’s anti-terrorism laws. votes
    Voted very strongly for a stricter asylum system. votes
    Voted very strongly for the Iraq war. votes
    Voted very strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war. votes
    Voted strongly for more EU integration. votes
    Voted moderately for the hunting ban. votes
    Voted moderately for laws to stop climate change. votes
    Voted a mixture of for and against a more proportional system for electing MPs. votes
    Voted a mixture of for and against greater autonomy for schools. votes
    Voted very strongly for introducing foundation hospitals. votes
    Voted a mixture of for and against automatic enrolment in occupational pensions. votes
    Voted moderately against encouraging occupational pensions.

    A terrible record one way or another.

    Having given his custom to too many of the 29 subsidized drinking places in the Houses of Parliament, he was arrested after a brawl there last night and is now sleeping it off in a cell in Belgravia police station.

    It is high time that these subsidies were removed.

    I also heard this morning that waiting staff have been sacked so that the members the House of Lords can continue to eat subsidized meals.

    Joyce’s constituents have been badly served by him. He should resign now, not wait until 2015, and seek medical help for his problem(s).

  18. This from the LA Times in 2005:

    “The complaint filed in a court in the Argentine capital on Friday accused Bergoglio, the archbishop of Buenos Aires, of involvement in the abduction of two Jesuit priests by the military dictatorship…”

    http://articles.latimes.com/2005/apr/17/world/fg-cardinal17

  19. Who exactly are these ‘rabble rebels’ you refer to Mary? Perhaps the people of Syria who were subjected to a hail of bullets for attempting a peaceful protest almost two years ago?

    You should be careful with the language in your posts, someone might almost think that you are supporting an authoritarian regime hell bent on suppressing it’s own people.

  20. OT but I’d like to share this.
    Just been listening to BBC radio 5 drive. They did a story about Palestinian men having their sperm smuggled out of Israeli jails so their wives can conceive. They interviewed a Palestinian doctor who seemed to confirm this. The presenters’ main focus was on how the smuggling took place, with talk of plastic bottles and even cups. No sympathy was expressed for the families involved, and no mention of the fact that the majority of the men are held without charge or trial.
    At the end of the item, the woman presenter said “and now for a sad story …..” and went on to explain that some “well-loved” cat had died somewhere.
    Breathtaking insensitivity, or the continuing dehumanisation of Palestinians by the BBC?

  21. CE I expect you already know about this.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/23/us-syria-crisis-saudi-idUSBRE85M07820120623

    and

    Can Free Syrian Army Defeat Assad:

    By early 2013, various rebel groups scored significant gains against retreating government troops in northern and eastern Syria, overrunning military bases, taking over border crossings with Turkey, and capturing roughly half of Aleppo, Syria’s commercial capital.

    However, many of these successes have been the work of Islamist militias, including Al Qaeda-linked groups such as the infamous Al Nusra Front. The FSA itself has largely faltered as an organized insurgent force.

    In fact, a report commissioned by the US State Department in late 2012 painted a bleak picture of the chaotic situation in rebel-held areas of Syria’s north. “There are hundreds of small groups (10-20 fighters) spread all over the area of Aleppo,” says the report, noting that the “rebel violations are becoming a normal daily phenomenon, especially against civilians, including looting public and private factories, storage places, houses and cars.”

    The FSA formal command seems ill-equipped to prevent radical Islamists from stepping into the vacuum left behind by a collapsing regime and a divided Syrian opposition.

    http://middleeast.about.com/od/syria/p/Syrias-Armed-Opposition-Free-Syrian-Army.htm

    etc etc

  22. Yes thanks Mary, I am. However the emergence of Jihadists in the FSA does nothing to excuse the Assad regimes horrific treatment of its own people and that of peaceful protesters over the last two years.

    Again why do you taint all those who are opposed to a corrupt authoritarian dictator as ‘rabble rebels’? Or do you think that this is a price worth paying for an anti-western leader in the ME?

    Why do you support people under oppression all around the world but not in Syria? You do realise, it is possible to be critical of both our government and the Syrian Regime?

  23. Thanks for that 2nd link. Interesting and a plethora of information.

  24. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 6:08 pm

    Is it really so that speakers and videos have to be approved in advance by the Board of Trustees of the Oxford Union? If it is then I’m astonished and wonder for how long that’s been the case. For some reason I’m thinking that a few decades ago the choice of speakers (no videos at that time) would have been up to the student officers of the Union.

  25. Yes thanks Mary- agent Cameron and François Hollande are calling on the EU to partially lift the arms embargo on Syria to allow Britain, France and others to assist the country’s opposition forces.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9933069/Syria-arms-embargo-not-working-David-Cameron-tells-EU.html

    Two hours ago François Hollande assured us he had secured an agreement with FSA ‘terrorists’ to guarantee advanced killing munitions, especially anti-aircraft missiles such as SAM and blow-pipe do not fall into the hands of al-Qaeda, this despite being a breach of international law, a fact Russia has iterated at the Brussels conference.

    The situation is of course different on the ground as we all know. These terrorists against Assad are already armed by Israel and Saudi.

    An aim is to gather evidence of atrocities in Syria by armed militia and present such evidence to the United Nations. This evidence is being compiled by certain NGO’s discreetly and covertly as such work presents a huge risk, to those at grass-roots and their messengers. Some expertise for this data compilation has been based on experience in Iraq and some key Syrian doctors and medical personnel are providing eye witness reports and images.

  26. From Hurriyet, the Turkish newspaper.

    Syrian rebels: Too fragmented, unruly

    ISTANBUL / ALEPPO

    The opposition militants battling Syrian President Bashar al-Assad are a fragmented rabble that refuses to follow orders, according to activists

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/syrian-rebels-too-fragmented-unruly.aspx?pageID=238&nid=29158

    Sept 2012

  27. Mary,

    I’m sure if you’d been through two years of violent civil war against a brutal dictatorship we might find you a touch fragmented and unruly.

    To have the temerity to mock people going through a life or death struggle you can not even begin to understand is behaviour I struggle to comprehend.

    Yes some of your links are informative, but this is a hugely complex issue and the blithe, nasty, throw away quips reveal nothing but meanness and do not paint you in a good light.

  28. The CE
    For the sake of argument, let’s suppose that President Assad really is the brutal dictator you describe, and we just hadn’t noticed how bad he was until last year.
    So what? What has it got to do with us, the West, and in particular, the U.K.?
    The U.K. is corrupt and bankrupt – we’re in no position, morally or financially, to be telling the Syrians how they should run their country.

  29. I cannot watch it because youtube is banned here in Pakistan. :( I will be grateful if anybody could provide it in any other way.

  30. “Amnesty International has warned that Syrian rebels have increasingly resorted to torture and the summary execution of soldiers, suspected informants, pro-government militias and captured or kidnapped civilians.

    “[Rebel fighters] are summarily killing people with a chilling sense of impunity, and the death toll continues to rise as more towns and villages come under the control of armed opposition groups,” Amnesty said.”

    http://rt.com/news/syria-anniversary-conflict-intensify-316/

    95% of ‘Syrian rebels’ not Syrians _ Daoud Khairallah

    http://blogdogcicle.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/95-of-syrian-rebels-not-syrians-daoud.html

  31. Hello A Node,

    I do not think that the Assad regime was always as brutally repressive as it is now, it was probably relatively(for the ME) benign whilst its populace was behaving as instructed. However when faced with a peaceful(yes, I know it’s hard to remember that’s how it started) uprising they were most likely faced with a stark choice, become a brutal dictatorship or relinquish power. I think we can see which way they chose.

    Our government may be bad, but thankfully it is not in the habit of shooting peaceful protesters or involved in widespread, systemic, internal repression, so yes, I thank we should be able to tell countries with abhorrent human rights records, be they Bahrain, Uzbekistan, Iran, Russia, China, or even Syria, that we have concerns over their human rights abuses.

    On the more specific question of the Syrian conflict, do I think we should go in all guns blazing? Of course not, do I think we should be providing arms to the rebels? Probably not, I can only see that being counter-productive, and the rebels are seemingly getting large quantities of weapons from the Gulf States irrespective of our actions . Do I think we should be providing some form of help to a struggling people, fighting against a vile regime, that itself is propped up financially and militarily by both Moscow and Tehran? Quite possibly yes.

    I don’t think there any easy answers, but the Syrian people are the ones caught in the middle of this unimaginable situation and I cannot truly say what is the best way forward to ease their suffering as quickly as possible, but I firmly believe it is nowhere near the simple black and white issue that Mark Golding and Mary would have us believe.

  32. … let’s suppose that President Assad really is the brutal dictator you describe, and we just hadn’t noticed how bad he was until last year.

    A very pertinent thought experiment. Considering that the same bunch of liberators pulled off the rug from under Qaddafi, after having extorted the billions of dollars out of him, for the Pan Am jet crash in Lockerbie. That is post a very dubious trial (dog and pony show) that took the testimony of a known liar (four trials have collapsed/convictions over turned due to the testimony of the same cretin). In addition to the bonus prize of parading the unopened boxes parked in the Libyan warehouses on the TV, along with the carrier bag of the Pakistani Shirt maker that held the plans for an atomic warhead as supplied by A Q Khan, and paraded as the dividend of the “Bush Doctrine” (shoot first and ask questions later, Texas style conflict resolution).

    Libyans are enjoying their liberation, as are Iraqis, Afghans, and currently Syrians are in the process of getting liberated. The Syrian liberators are consisting of a well known local cigarette smuggler who is often referred to as the “rich businessman”, and Eric Prince hired mercenaries who are paraded as the Syrian Army Defectors, and a bunch of doped up Arab looking mercenaries pulled in from various countries all helping the Syrians to free themselves from the Assad regime!!

    Incidentally anyone recollect the Assads visits to No Ten and the photo ops with the world famous liar Blair? Clearly those days Assad was the paragon of democracy and upholder of mom’s apple-pie order, hence the rendered prisoners flown there by the CIA airways. Further anyone recollect the Assad speech rejecting the ambitions of “those setting themselves up as the power brokers”? (that is when he was getting shaken down)

    However, sadly sometimes tribalism trumps logic and reason, and anyone on the shitlist of those in zionistan are copied onto the shitlist of those “commenting” here, too. Hence the almost comical repetition of the news headlines as “opinions and well thought out wisdom”! Isn’t it sad?

  33. A comment

    Agent Cameron has been in Brussels speaking up for arming the rabble rebels, along with his mate François Hollande. They salivate and lust for war and never learn any lessons.
    ~~~
    A link

    CE I expect you already know about this.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/23/us-syria-crisis-saudi-idUSBRE85M07820120623

    and

    Can Free Syrian Army Defeat Assad:

    By early 2013, various rebel groups scored significant gains against retreating government troops in northern and eastern Syria, overrunning military bases, taking over border crossings with Turkey, and capturing roughly half of Aleppo, Syria’s commercial capital.

    However, many of these successes have been the work of Islamist militias, including Al Qaeda-linked groups such as the infamous Al Nusra Front. The FSA itself has largely faltered as an organized insurgent force.

    In fact, a report commissioned by the US State Department in late 2012 painted a bleak picture of the chaotic situation in rebel-held areas of Syria’s north. “There are hundreds of small groups (10-20 fighters) spread all over the area of Aleppo,” says the report, noting that the “rebel violations are becoming a normal daily phenomenon, especially against civilians, including looting public and private factories, storage places, houses and cars.”

    The FSA formal command seems ill-equipped to prevent radical Islamists from stepping into the vacuum left behind by a collapsing regime and a divided Syrian opposition.

    http://middleeast.about.com/od/syria/p/Syrias-Armed-Opposition-Free-Syrian-Army.htm

    etc etc

    ~~~~
    Another link

    From Hurriyet, the Turkish newspaper.

    Syrian rebels: Too fragmented, unruly

    ISTANBUL / ALEPPO

    The opposition militants battling Syrian President Bashar al-Assad are a fragmented rabble that refuses to follow orders, according to activists

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/syrian-rebels-too-fragmented-unruly.aspx?pageID=238&nid=29158

    Sept 2012

    ~~~

    This place gets more like a court of law.

    I have made NO ‘blithe, nasty, throw away quips’.

  34. So we now have three of them ganging up against Mary, what fine fettle this blog is in.
    Any videos of the Islamophobia conference?

  35. Asked what he would say if President Assad said he wanted a safe exit, Mr Cameron replied: “Done.”

    “Anything, anything to get that man out of the country and to have a safe transition in Syria.”

    “Of course, I would favour him facing the full force of international law and justice for what he’s done.”

    Mr Cameron, who was preparing for talks with King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia in Jeddah, made clear Britain would not offer any such haven.

    He added: “I am certainly not offering him an exit plan to Britain but if wants to leave, he could leave, that could be arranged.”

    Mr Cameron ruled out the UK arming Syrian rebels.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/bashar-al-assad-could-be-offered-safe-1420750

  36. Apologies. Next time I disagree with something Mary writes I shouldn’t mention it, lest I be accused of ganging up on someone. There really is some thin skinned people going around here for a public blog.

    I found this comment offensive, unhelpful and overly simplistic – “Agent Cameron has been in Brussels speaking up for arming the rabble rebels, along with his mate François Hollande. They salivate and lust for war and never learn any lessons.” I said so.

    I was told by Craig dissent from the majority view is welcome here.

  37. What I said about Cameron and Hollande is true. Remember Libya, the chaos that spread from it just like the chaos that spread from the occupation of Iraq and the war against Iraq, and now Mali and beyond.

    ~~

    I did not understand that remark of Cameron’s about not arming the rebels, Mark, but now see that it was what he was saying in November.

  38. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 8:56 pm

    “There really is some thin skinned people going around here for a public blog.”

    Yeah, it’s been rubbed raw. Give it some time to heal. I do recall your aligning yourself with the human rasp. Take that into consideration before hitting the submit button.

  39. “The kaleidoscope has been shaken, the pieces are in flux, soon they will settle again. Before they do let us reorder this world around us.” Said the grinning war criminal (Anthony Charles Lynton Blair)

    Kick starting the absurd bums rush for the second helpings of Sykes Picot. Old habits die hard evidently. The theft of the vanquished nations assets somehow is accepted as part of going to war to help spread democracy, liberation, and free beer all around.

    What happened to the vast sums of money found in Iraq, that is apart from the frozen accounts and the UN funds etc? Same holds true for Libya, and currently Syria? Who gets to administer and hold the free money?

    Less said about the indirect embezzlement from the tax funds that various contractors and agents get engaged in. If some of these crooks cashed a cheque these would be prosecuted for fraud, however if they are later paid for the books they author or for the positions they hold, that is a legitimate business transaction.

    Freedom dunchyou love its smell?

    Anyone recollect the Iraqi actress screaming it (FREEDOM) in the Labour conference in the build up to go and disarm Saddam from Nukes and Death Stars and Anti Matter weapons systems that no one had thought of so far? Or the sleeping (whilst on the TV) fat Iraqi woman who was purportedly raped by 150 Iraqi interrogators?

    How did the song go again ……….Sixteen million pound buys lots of mansions and beers and cars mate.

  40. The CE

    You have answered several questions, thank you, but none of them were mine. I’ll try again.

    Let’s suppose that I accept everything you say about Assad’s brutality, his human rights record, when it started, the mistreatment of his people, even that our government is not “involved in widespread, systemic, internal repression”, and thus has a moral right to judge him.

    My question is, “What’s it got to do with us? By what right are we interfering? Who has appointed us world policemen?”

    If Iran judged that the UK was guilty of persecuting British Muslims, would you defend Iran’s right to support an armed uprising in the UK?

  41. Mary & A Node: Plus 1 fot your comments.

    November: “However, sadly sometimes tribalism trumps logic and reason, and anyone on the shitlist of those in zionistan are copied onto the shitlist of those “commenting” here, too. Hence the almost comical repetition of the news headlines as “opinions and well thought out wisdom”! Isn’t it sad?”

    Could you simplify that for me please. Politics is not my natural area. Thank you

  42. The CE:
    “I don’t think there any easy answers, but the Syrian people are the ones caught in the middle of this unimaginable situation and I cannot truly say what is the best way forward to ease their suffering as quickly as possible, but I firmly believe it is nowhere near the simple black and white issue that Mark Golding and Mary would have us believe.”

    Easy armchair waffle CE. You reveal your subconscious in remarks like “the Syrian people are the ones caught in the middle”.
    So if they are ‘caught’ in the ‘middle’, what/who is on the sides or at the periphery. You might answer this while you’re answering A Node. I want to understand what the foundation of your moral high ground is made of?

    And re: your no-easy-answers-cliche, may i suggest, either put-up or shut-up.

  43. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 10:40 pm

    @ A Node

    Sorry to bring this thread down to the nether regions, but I was intrigued by the story you posted about Palestinian prisoners having their sperm smuggled out of jail in order that their women folk light conceive (a story confirmed by a Palestinian doctor, you said).

    I seem to remember reading somewhere that about 99% of sperm died within a minute or so of being deposited in the vagina. If that is so, I shouldn’t have thought that the chances of any sperm surviving transport of possibly hours in glass jars and cups were very high.

    Are you sure that story’s not just…a story?

  44. Quite obvious what happened. Wifie gets pregnant whilst hubbie is in prison, doesn’t want to get stoned to death so persuades somebody to smuggle a sample of hubbie’s jiz out of the nick. “Darling whilst the wicked Zionists were holding you in prison Allah and the miracle of artificial insemination have blessed us with a son… No, I’ve no idea why he looks so much like the milkman.”

  45. Hehe, you might have something there Kempe.
    But it doesnt to take long to find out sperm can last for days in a sterile environment. hbk was just being characteristically obtuse and doubtful.

  46. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 11:17 pm

    The Milkman cometh…(sorry, couldn’t resist :) )

  47. “It would be my greatest sadness to see Zionists (Jews) do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews.”
    ― Albert Einstein

    “Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs… Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home”
    ― Mahatma Gandhi

    “How much longer is the world willing to endure this spectacle of wanton cruelty?”
    ― Bertrand Russell

    “To Alef, the letter
    that begins the alphabets
    of both Arabic and Hebrew-
    two Semitic languages,
    sisters for centuries.

    May we find the language
    that takes us
    to the only home there is –
    one another’s hearts.

    Alef knows
    That a thread
    Of a story
    Stitches together
    A wound.”
    ― Ibtisam Barakat, Tasting the Sky: A Palestinian Childhood

  48. If we dont see further inquistions on the lifespan of smuggled palestinian sperm, take it habkuk got the night off.

  49. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 11:41 pm

    TGIF..Crab

  50. I havent cleared the weekend, but Cheers Ben :)

  51. Recall Craig made these blockbusting speeches just a fortnight after passing out and spending 6 days in hospital with heart problems which aren’t even well controlled yet.

    I wouldn’t bet against that mans spunk in a cup.

  52. halibabacus,

    have you ever deposited any sperms in a vagina or have you just read about it? Please tell us where you collect the snippets of you wisdom.

  53. Kempe,

    are you a milkman by any chance?

  54. A couple of months ago, Belgian MP Laurent Louis spoke out in Parliament about globalist resource-grabbing and false-flag terrorism. Now three brave Australian MPs have told some home truths to their parliament about the Israeli lobby. Meanwhile, here in Britain, David Ward MP has been ordered to have his words vetted by the LibDem Friends of Israel for saying the word “Jews”

    A shouting match broke out in the chambers of the New South Wales (NSW) Legislative Council chambers on Thursday during a motion debate about a ‘Study Mission to Israel’ hosted by the NSW Parliamentary Friends of Israel under the auspices of the NSW Jewish Board Of Deputies, attended by a delegation of NSW Parliamentarians last January 6-10.
    The purpose of the ‘Study Mission’ was “to build an understanding amongst the delegates of the complex and various issues impacting on Israel and other jurisdictions within the Middle East.”(pdf)
    While Legislative Council members who were part of the delegation sang the praises of Israel, Green Legislative Councillor David Shoebridge (video above), Labor Legislative Councillor’s Shaoquett Moselmane, and Lynda Voltz had a few other topics to discuss.

    Video and transcript:
    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/03/chambers-parliamentarians-criticizes.html

  55. Enough spoor chat already yoll.

    Thankee.

  56. Noor-e-Hira, 15 Mar, 7:24 pm, I have uploaded copies of the two speeches to here:

    http://www.killick1.plus.com/uploads/winners.mp4
    http://www.killick1.plus.com/uploads/us-dream.mp4

    Right-click on the link and use “Save target/link as…” to save them to your computer, and then play them in your media player; they are not like YouTube “embedded videos”, and if you save them you can play them many times. They are also lower resolution than YouTube, but they seem to work.

    Other readers,

    Please do not download these videos if you can watch the embedded ones on this page or on YouTube. They are saved on the web-space provided by my ISP, which has strict download limits; if a few people download them my web-space will be blocked and Noor-e-Hira won’t be able to get them.

  57. But Jives every sperm is sacred.
    MP Laurent Louis – another cup runeth over.
    Apologies.
    Well served Clark.

  58. The CE, I didn’t believe it for years, but “we”, i.e. the US, UK and assorted allies who come and go, really are “bad guys”. Not “the bad guys”, but at least as bad as “our enemies”. “We”, or “the West”, or “the international community”, or “the free world”, or whatever term you (or rather the establishment and the corporate media) wish to use; “we” attack, invade, dominate and destroy other countries for the commercial gain of private interests. All the talk of “humanitarian intervention” is just propaganda in support of those same interests.

    US general Wesley Clark, the former supreme commander of allied forces in Europe, once revealed that within weeks of the 9/11 terrorist atrocity the then secretary of defence Donald Rumsfeld described how “we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.”

    http://www.democracynow.org/2007/3/2/gen_wesley_clark_weighs_presidential_bid

    Now read this article by Sami Ramadani:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/14/iraq-pain-2003-civil-war

    The north-western region of Iraq borders Syria and it is where General Petraeus funded the Sahwa “awakening” militias in order to crush resistance in that region. Al-Qaida-type terrorists are also active in the area. They are natural allies of the terrorist al-Nusra Front of Syria. The de facto alliance between the US, Turkey, Israel and militants that has appeared in Syria is being mirrored in Iraq, with the additional ingredient of Saddamist remnants. US pragmatism knows no bounds!

    Follow that up with this one:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/03/military-intervention-syria-disastrous-people

    But what goes unreported in relation to Syria is that democratic opposition organisations, at the receiving end of decades of regime repression and probably representing the will of majority of Syrians, strongly opposed the militarisation of the protests. They argued that militarisation weakened the growing mass movement for radical democratic change, left the door wide open for foreign intervention, threatened the social fabric of Syrian society and helped Israeli forces occupying the Syrian Golan Heights, where Israeli tanks are an hour’s drive away from Damascus. They also draw lessons from the destruction of Iraq and the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi refugees who fled Iraq’s fires to Syria after the US-led invasion.

    Yes, I know that our corporate media constantly repeat that “Assad is killing his own people”, but where is the information coming from? Back at the time of the Iraq war, al-Jazeera was a good alternative news source, but note the following section; it has since been taken over by the Qatari elite:

    However, the media here and in the Arab world, especially the influential al-Jazeera TV, owned by the Qatari ruling family, act as the cheerleaders for the pro-intervention factions of the SNC and the FSA, founded in and logistically backed by Nato member Turkey.

    So do I have any evidence to support this radically different view of Middle Eastern conflict? Well, here is a rational analysis of the conflict in Syria based upon the sex ratios of the dead:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/15/syrian-death-tolls-tell-us

    Benetech’s research nevertheless offers some useful clues about the makeup of the recorded death toll. Only 7.5% are female, making the casualties in Syria overwhelmingly male. Second, the largest segment of the 30% of victims whose ages are included in the records are between the ages of 20 and 30 – who might be classified as males of “military age”.
    […]
    According to Abdulrahman’s conservative estimates, at least two thirds of the dead are armed men – an appreciatively different take on the perception of “civilian slaughter” in Syria created by reporting of the UN’s and other unverified casualty numbers. And the UN itself points out that “the analysis was not able to differentiate clearly between combatants and noncombatants”.

    CE, it is very uncomfortable to come to terms with, but “our” side, the US, UK etc., are the aggressors. “Our” allies in the Middle East are Qatar, Bahrain, and of course Saudi Arabia, which is the country that indoctrinates and arms the extremely violent Islamists.

  59. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Mar, 2013 - 6:58 am

    @ Crab (23h10) :

    “But it doesnt to take long to find out sperm can last for days in a sterile environment. hbk was just being characteristically obtuse and doubtful”

    ” sterile environment” – that’s the point, isn’t it. Surely glass jars or cups wouldn’t provide a sterile environment?

    But this is O/T, so I think I’ll leave it at that.

  60. Yes, good idea, stick to your job……blowing Babble.

  61. If anyone fancies a change from bickering, I would really appreciate some help developing ideas about how to make intelligence agencies serve the greater good; how to harness secrecy like markets can harness greed and competition if they’re well regulated…

  62. In an ideal world, no secrecy would be needed; everyone could just trust everyone else by default. The problem is getting there from where we are now. Those with good intentions need to keep their operational details secret from those less enlightened parties who would sabotage or exploit such information. But in the dark corners created by secrecy, corruption and deception can flourish. Conundrum.

    We’re lacking a tool, or maybe even a tool-kit.

  63. Thanks Clark for that exposition and for the links.

    I see that in the night the comments reached a new low. One of the commenters probably found typing out the word ‘vagina’ exciting. Others joined in and there was even someone casting aspersions on the marital fidelity of the prisoners’ wives. Quite disgusting.

  64. There are many interesting articles on Dissident Voice concerning Syria including this one. There is a good search box on the site.

    U.S. Policy Shift on Syria: Edging Closer to Direct Military Intervention
    by Ben Schreiner / February 28th, 2013

    Though President Obama last year rejected a proposal from the State Department, Pentagon, and CIA to directly arm Syrian rebel fighters, his administration is once again edging closer to directly intervening in the Syrian war.

    As the Washington Post reported Tuesday, “The Obama administration is moving toward a major policy shift on Syria that could provide the rebels with equipment such as body armor, armored vehicles and possible military training and could send humanitarian assistance directly to Syria’s opposition political coalition.”

    /..
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/02/u-s-policy-shift-on-syria-edging-closer-to-direct-military-intervention/

    Obama visits Israel next week. Netanyahu has now formed a coalition with Livni, the Cast Lead war criminal, and a new party Yesh Atid that supports settlement building and a compulsory draft into the military for the ultra Orthodox Israelis.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-15/netanyahu-s-party-signs-deals-for-new-israeli-government.html

    Peres has lined up the first black Miss Israel to be a dinner guest with Obama. She is Ethiopian. Wonder what she thinks about the revelation that Ethiopian women have been dosed with Depo Provera contraceptives by injection.

    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/israel-admits-forcibly-injecting-ethiopian-jews-with-depo-provera/

  65. Clark, i propose we solve the other type of (rather more profound) intelligence and the problem will be solved.

    The Intelligence Which Brings Order and Peace
    3rd Public Talk, September 4th, 1982

    “I do not know if one has asked such a question, surrounded by total disorder. I think one must be very clear about that: there is total disorder outwardly. Every morning you read a newspaper it is something terrible. Aeroplanes that can travel at such astonishing speed from one corner of the earth to the other without having refuelled, carrying great weight of bombs, gasses that can destroy man in a few seconds. To observe all this and to realise what man has come to, and in asking this question you may say that is impossible, it is not at all possible to live in this world utterly, inwardly undisturbed, to have no problems, to live a life utterly not self- centred. How shall we talk about this? Talking, using words, has very little meaning but to find out through the words, through communicating with each other, to find or discover, or come upon a state that is utterly still. That requires intelligence, not a fantasy, not some peculiar daydreaming called meditation, not some form of self-hypnosis, but to come upon it as we said requires intelligence.

    So we have to ask what is intelligence? As we said the other day, to perceive that which is illusory, that which is false, not actual, and to discard it, not merely assert that is false and continue in the same way, but to discard it completely. That is part of intelligence. To see, for example, nationalism, with all its peculiar patriotism, isolation, narrowness, is very destructive in this world, it is a poison in the world, and seeing the truth of it is to discard that which is false. That is intelligence. But to keep on with it, acknowledging it is stupid but keep on, that is essentially part of stupidity and disorder. It creates disorder. So intelligence is, is it not – we are talking over together, I am not saying it is, or it is not, we are investigating very seriously into this question: what is intelligence which alone can bring about in one’s life complete order and peace. And we said that can come about only when there is this extraordinary quality of intelligence. And intelligence is not the clever pursuit of argument, of opposing knowledge, contradictory opinions and through opinions find truth, which is impossible, but to realise that the activity of thought, with all its capacities, with all its subtleties, its extraordinary width of thought, is not intelligence. Intelligence is beyond thought. Please, don’t agree with the speaker. We are looking at it, going into it.”

    For all the time people spend on this board, it is well worth taking out an hour to go into this:
    http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-video/the-intelligence-which-brings-order-and-peace-full-version.php

  66. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Mar, 2013 - 9:50 am

    “One of the commenters probably found typing out the word ‘vagina’ exciting.”

    For heaven’s sake grow up, Mary.

    **********

    La vita è bella, life is good! ( Immaculate Conception for all )

  67. Mary,

    I see that in the night the comments reached a new low.

    He was trying to distract me from asking his friend the CE some awkward questions. Rather than rise to the bait, I sent him and Kempe some uplifting quotes about Palestine. You might try the same when he gets too obnoxious. Then the more horrible he gets, the more he will be helping combat injustice :)

  68. Hilarious stuff. Agent Cameron is speaking to a Conservative conference except Sky News had no sound for a long time. Someone has now put the plug in. Shame.

    Interesting to see the neurolinguistic skills without the sound. The clenched mouth, the hand gestures, the exaggerated emphases. However much he tries to imitate Bliar though, he still cannot speak without notes or with the autocue.

  69. absolutely awesome speeches. If i had been in that room i think my head would have exploded with excitement. 4 of my absolute heroes in one room.. Murray, Machon, Drake & McGoven.. legends each and every one of them.

  70. Grow up?? Et tu!

    I was reminded of a car journey years ago with my niece and her friend, both of primary school age in the back seat. They had just discovered the word and the meaning and were giggling away while singing a song about it.

  71. Villager, I agree entirely that we benefit when we develop our personal internal understanding and agreement, such that we can see ourselves and the world for what they are without imposing illusions and distortions upon the models thereof which we maintain in our minds. I agree that when groups of people engage in this together, it is beneficial to themselves and, to a lesser extent, to those they interact with.

    However, it cannot be forced upon people, and thus there will continue to be some who act on the basis of their illusions and error. Their actions create disorder and conflict, which detracts from the progression towards understanding and peace. In particular, many are drawn towards governing others because of their internal illusions, such that the people who harbour the most destructive thoughts end up in the most powerful positions, from where their illusions are most susceptible to distribution, and their destructive actions become hugely amplified by the power structures over which they have so much influence. I think that this is how such understandings can have been known for thousands of years, and yet still strife and illusion remain widespread.

    This is why I look for ways to structure systems such that the quality of the system can improve independently of the quality of the individuals from which it is composed. Many systems have achieved varying degrees of success in this regard. To take a trivially physical example, all electronic circuits have to be designed to tolerate a broad range of quality in the components (sometimes as broad as 100 to 1), and the gizmos we’re surrounded by would be hopelessly unreliable had electronic engineers not developed such techniques for dealing with variable quality of components.

    Governments and organisations are going to continue to keep secrets. We need some standard method of preventing secrecy from breeding corruption and deception. Wikileaks and the like are a start, but high-risk for their maintainers and worryingly random regarding what gets through and what doesn’t; we have no idea of what hasn’t been leaked. We need a system that will be accepted as a “standard model”, such that any organisation that doesn’t implement it becomes regarded as irresponsible and disreputable.

  72. Thanks for the smile you raised, A Node, the video from the NSWales rep will end up on my FB site, he comes over like a determined termite of truth attacking the liars flagpole.
    It is also a poignant British problem, because many of our own politicians, newbie’s such as Ms. Chloe Smith MP, did go on just such a one-sided trip to Israel, though she failed to make much publicity of it in her local EDP, her seats on a knife edge, too many ex labour voters trusted her young and innocent face and that will change, would not be surprised if she gets moved into a safe seat.

    Clark, thanks for your excellent and factual resume of a powder keg. The Syrian opposition has been flat lined in the media because we are promoting our own type of Syrian opposition, those who agree with an armed uprising and who are in bed with Quatari and Saudi backers. Many of us must feel a mixture of sorrow and anger as to the reality in Iraq, the fear that is played off as normalcy, it is a disaster.

    Clark your intelligence conundrum can be solved with much greater openness, call it Wikiglobal for all its worth. Only when the so called secrets are made public will the need for intelligence services diminish, for that Governments have to loose the ability to shut down and control the internet. Likely? not in our lifetime I guess.
    Chances are that one day people will find a way around these walls and then these regimes will fall with it. That will be the day our secret services should look for other jobs.

    meanwhile they are trying desperately to control the wider public, who are more and more inclined to use dead easy encryption for their emails now, taken up much time discovering coffee morning dates and times. Unless they ask for reform and wider public insight into their work, and now is a good time for accountable sense, their multicultural approach will fail.

    Industrial spying is big business, all spying is big business and to divorce the two would take 70% of impetus out of the need to have secrets. You are asking the swords of Damocles to be turned into toothpicks, Clark, wonders will take a little longer, but you brought it up and it is a great worthwhile exercise.

    But, I have to say this, there is a need to balance my mental with the physical, its easier to chew over ideas and reflect during the physical phase, it somehow helps to clarify and reflect, hence I shall retract for some exaltation involving muck and a fork.

    I yet have to read Sami Ramadani’s piece, he writes well.

  73. Nevermind (when you’ve returned from your muckraking), yes, governments can shut down the Internet within their own country, but they can only partially control it while it is working, and they don’t like shutting it down for long because commerce, and hence their economies, benefit so much from it. We’ve seen this several times now; a popular protest or uprising occurs and the government “pulls the plug”, but their economy plummets and a few days later they switch their patch of Internet back on again. It’s almost amusing to see power defeat itself in this way.

    Only large countries with highly centralised economies like China can afford to permanently and thoroughly fire-wall their entire patch of Internet, and the commercial pressure to keep the information highways open is continuing to increase as commerce finds the Internet increasingly useful.

    “Many of us must feel a mixture of sorrow and anger as to the reality in Iraq, the fear that is played off as normalcy, it is a disaster.”

    Yes, that’s just how I feel about Iraq, and Syria too.

  74. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Mar, 2013 - 12:56 pm

    Mary :

    Where else do you think nature intended sperm to be deposited if not in a vagina, Mary?

    Unless you have some good suggestions, I would have to conclude that although you might not like Habbabkuk you’ve definitely got the hots for Onan.

    ************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  75. Yuk. Just keep repeating it why don’t you.

    You are a very unpleasant individual.

  76. The points you raise Clark on the intelligence services are certainly more valid than kindergarten parturiency befuddlement.

    In the dirty business of armed conflict, intelligence can mean victory or failure. Investigative journalism is key and the WWW is a tool, a conduit to disseminate the truth.

    Whistle-blowing is an art and adroitness can be taught as part of the toolkit you mention in your comment.

    So essential is conscience, I propose a WB seminar as a bolt-on to the skill of reporting. Bradley Manning perceived misconduct, crime and violation. That skill requires insight, awareness and a love for all life.

    The perpetrators have had their day; Iraq sanctions, displacement, holocaust and the murder of innocent children in huge numbers must be the final curtain on a dark era; sine qua non.

    It is time to build another path, a new way; I believe it is our duty, our task – giving something back for that gift of awareness and knowledge most here possess.

    Listen, if Syria falls to these freaks of war WE HAVE LOST our transit to a new direction.

    It cannot be any clearer than your post Clark – “we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.”

    We are but a small band of Craig followers – yet we are crucial, essential and vital.

    That is why ‘it’ is attending, here present. Trying your best for a different way will, without any doubt summon honor and benefit.

  77. “This is why I look for ways to structure systems such that the quality of the system can improve independently of the quality of the individuals from which it is composed.”

    And this is why I keep telling you that the answer is sortition – the permanent elimination of the oligarchic political class. Here’s a good video from Etienne Chouard, encouraging everyone to seek ‘the cause of causes’. You can get English subtitles from the leftmost icon at the bottom right of the screen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN5tdMSXWV8

  78. There is a documentary on RT today regarding the conflict in Syria.This is in three parts,and as usual with RT, I’m unable to work out whether all three are being shown today. The part I saw this morning was rather graphic and quite harrowing to watch, but it needs to be viewed to see exactly what these soulless bastards are doing.Rebel rabble is far too kind!

  79. Thanks Polly. Was it this?

    Syria conflict may spin out of control, 2 years on
    Published time: March 15, 2013 17:16
    Edited time: March 16, 2013 08:32

    http://rt.com/news/syria-anniversary-conflict-intensify-316/

  80. I’m not sure Mary as I didn’t catch the title earlier, but I would assume so. One part of the doc has literally just finished on RT(filmed in 2012). I think it was a different part to the one I saw earlier from the end snippet I just caught.It is saying in the TV listings that a documentary is on again at both 5.30pm and 10.30pm, so I am assuming that these will be parts of the same programme. The TV guide lists these documentaries as being about Russia. Which I wish they wouldn’t, as they rarely are!

  81. “Unless you have some good suggestions, I would have to conclude that although you might not like Habbabkuk you’ve definitely got the hots for Onan.”

    May God save you Habbakuk

  82. LastBlueBell

    16 Mar, 2013 - 4:17 pm

    @Clark

    “However, it cannot be forced upon people, and thus there will continue to be some who act on the basis of their illusions and error.”

    To the foremost I concur wholeheartedly, in regard to the latter I believe it will always be so to one degree or another, even if our different cultures were to harmonize completly, due to the inherent biological variation that nature throws up with each new generation.

    I would say that what we can do is to try and improve the enviroment, conditions and context where our societies and political institutions are allowed to improve in an open ended combinatorial system, through repeated trial and errors. Which I think harmonize well with your perspective,

    “This is why I look for ways to structure systems such that the quality of the system can improve independently of the quality of the individuals from which it is composed.”

    But this requires real accountablity, which in turn is dependent upon openness, public knowledge, interest and transperancy, in stark contrast to the direction in many societies today.

    Another aspect I think is critical to that context as visioned above, is a much better public knowledge and understanding of our human nature. Both our remarkable ability for adaptation, but equally important, that this ability has true hardcoded limitations, and that our brain is riddled with inherent “design” flaws as well as burdened with optimizations for a lifestyle most of us left behind thousands of years ago.

    One interesting line of thought in this aspect I think can be extracted from Nassim Nicholas Taleb’s concept of antifragility.

    http://www.amazon.com/Antifragile-Things-That-Gain-Disorder/dp/1400067820

    There will always exist uncertainty, and highly improbable event will occur, the intelligent way to face this, might very well be to construct systems that are inherently good at handling failures, change and the unexpected. And I think we both have some ideas how you solve this in technical systems and organisations today, i.e. open communications, redundancy, modularisation, decentralisation etc. It is much better to have many smaller simpler dedicated systems, then one huge, highly interconnected and complex system.

    Also just run past this, and found it fascinating in a wider context to the topic as well,

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/03/michael-hoexter-without-an-effective-macroethics-our-civilization-is-doomed.html

  83. MSM CENSORED My Fav Music YouTube – ‘Pink’ live at Wembley

    **All versions showing backdrop video clips have been censored**

    After searching around I managed to find this amateur recording which I’m sure will ‘disappear’ in a bit.

    For your enjoyment – ‘Dear Mr. President’- ‘Pink’ Live at Wembley

    (with back-drop)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuCK2mqTjkE

    If anyone can find a better recording with back-drop I would be most grateful.

    Thank-you

  84. A psychopath and with defective parenting especially lacking in maternal nurture I would say Mark.

    But he loves dogs and paints pictures of them!

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/old-dog-learns-new-tricks-george-w-bush-turns-his-hand-to-painting-pets-8530077.html

  85. And the Wikileaks beat goes on …… http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2013/03/16/national_security_letters_banned/#c_1763633 …. and gets ever louder and more strident in the ever stealthier disguised and SMARTR IntelAIgent Services which have a 5 and a 6 all at sixes and sevens in novel fields of Intellectual Property Supply and Future AIDelivery …… Universal Presentation?

  86. OT: The shit has hit the fan in Cyprus.

    From Ed Harrison at Naked Capitalism

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/03/cyprus-bank-deposit-bail-in.html

    “Europe has hammered out a 10bn euro “bailout” of Cyprus. I put the term bailout in quotes because the key feature of this deal is the bail-in of Cypriot depositors to the tune of 5.8bn euros, about a third of Cyprus’ GDP. This means that depositors went to sleep on Friday night and woke up Saturday to find that their money, deposited safely in Cypriot banks, had been seized and used to “bail out” the country.”

    “Cypriot bank account holders with funds over 100,000 euros will have 9.9% of their account holdings deducted from their accounts when banks open on Tuesday. However, importantly, an additional 6.75% levy is going to hit deposits below that 100,000 euro level. As a bank depositor, given a one-day national holiday to decide what to do with your now shrunken savings, what would you do?”

    In theory this is a one time action but the precedent is set. Any money anyone now has in EU banks is now susceptible to confiscation.

  87. Libya post ‘intervention’…..

    Libya’s militarized youth feed into economic woes

    MAGGIE MICHAEL
    Published: Mar 13, 2013

    FILE – In this Sunday, Feb. 17, 2013 file photo, Libyan gunmen celebrate on the early morning of the second anniversary of the revolution that ousted Moammar Gadhafi, in Benghazi, Libya. More than 18 months since the end of Libya’s civil war, the most attractive job for many of the young is still to join a militia. In fact, just under a tenth of Libya’s labor force may be working as gunmen. State coffers are full of cash from rapidly reviving oil production, but rather than funding reconstruction, much of the money goes to buying off a restive population with state salaries, including to militias, effectively feeding a cycle of lawlessness. (AP Photo/Mohammad Hannon, File)

    BENGHAZI, Libya (AP) – More than 18 months since the end of Libya’s civil war, the most attractive job for many of the young is still to join a militia. In fact, just under a tenth of Libya’s labor force may be working as gunmen.

    Libya’s government coffers are rapidly filling with cash as oil exports return to near pre-war levels, powering a 100 per cent increase in GDP in 2012, according to a report this month by the International Monetary Fund.

    But the economy of this North African oil giant remains in disarray. Unemployment, officially at 15 per cent, is estimated by some as high as 50 per cent. The private sector, decimated under ousted dictator Moammar Gadhafi, still barely functions. Reconstruction investment is largely on hold, and the weak central government is funneling much of its oil wealth into public handouts to quiet discontent, as Gadhafi often did. Other money is lost down the drain of corruption.

    And still other funds end up fueling the growth of militias.

    /..
    http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268778/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=6anxKo2E

  88. Just coming home from a bedroom tax demo in Norwich City centre, collected hundreds of signatures against it.
    And managed to get some real muck raked, rather than thrown at, as is the case with Mary.

    I have to say the fascination of ‘it’ with Mary is becoming more deprived/desperate by the minute, those young dancers can’t be up to much, or the bones are becoming too old.

  89. Well done Nevermind.

    The protests are building.

    Bedroom tax Manchester
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thousands-angry-protesters-march-against-1768559

    and in 52 other places.

    16 March 2013
    Housing benefit change protests held
    Protests have taken place across the country, including Manchester.

    Thousands have been demonstrating in a series of cities against government plans to cut housing benefit for those considered to have too much space.

    Protests against the plan – labelled the “bedroom tax” by Labour – have been held in 52 towns and cities, including Manchester and London.

    Organisers said between 12,000 and 13,000 people turned out.

    /..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21815636

    Will it be the ConDems’ equivalent of Maggie’s Poll Tax

    Bedroom tax backlash: Now even Iain Duncan Smith’s own aide tells of fears it will hit vulnerable

    16 Mar 2013 00:00

    Ministers Owen Paterson and Alistair Burt and deputy chief whip John Randall have also asked what help is available for those struggling.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-iain-duncan-smiths-1766764

    ~~~~

    Protest too against the selling off and cuts at the Whittington Hospital, North London

    Thousands of people protest in north London against proposed NHS hospital cuts
    http://www.london24.com/news/health/thousands_of_people_protest_in_north_london_against_proposed_nhs_hospital_cuts_1_1981664

  90. Protest tomorrow, don’t forget, come rain or shine.

    Between 2-4 p.m.

    Outside the US embassy in London in support of Guantanamo internees who have been on and are on hunger-strike due to abuses of their rights (especially their religious rights). This is important. Guantanamo, as well as being a hellhole of torture, illegally occupies an area of Cuba formerly leased to the US. Dady Chery writes:

    “Cuba stopped accepting lease payments from the US for Guantanamo Bay in 1959 and has demanded again and again that the US leaves. There was originally a 99-year lease, but it expired in 2003. The US’ continued use of Guantanamo as a base is illegal and is meant as a provocation to Cuba.”

  91. Hello Craig, hello Clark, hello UK from Southern California USA.

    I like to help out by posting video transcripts when I can, and I’m sorry I missed this the first time Craig posted it because I was busy on something else and only saw it later. So, lack of transcript was not an American frown. I DO disagree with Craig, though. If I judged your national ideals as hijacked by the actions of your sick government, as you judge mine, y’all might look about as putrid, though poodlier. So, hugs, we’re all in this together. Also would note, my American heroes, warts and all, stood on the shoulders of yours, and I’ll let you do your own wart check.

    Enough ado, with my best wishes here’s a transcript of Craig’s American Dream speech:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zko4nlFLMX0

    Craig Murray | American Dream Debate | Oxford Union

    MOTION: THIS HOUSE STILL DREAMS THE AMERICAN DREAM

    Craig Murray gives his argument in opposition of dreaming the American dream.
    Filmed on Wednesday 24th January 2013

    CRAIG MURRAY: Madam President, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much indeed. I was speaking here last night, having a kind of Groundhog Day problem, but those of you who were here and saw me last night will remember that I said that I’d spoken in this hall on many an occasion, but last night was the first time I’d ever done so sober. And I promised you if you came back again tonight you would see me speak drunk, and I’m glad to say I’m a man of my word.

    [laughter, applause]

    I’ve got nothing in particular to say to you, so I thought I’d just be rude about the proposition.

    [laughter, reaction]

    I should say that the last speaker, I should make a declaration of interest, Ray [McGovern] has been a very good friend of mine for many years and I’ve stayed at his home in Washington. Until tonight I never knew that he had the worst Russian accent in the world! [laughter] And the worst German accent, and even for an Irishman the worst Irish accent [laughter, reaction], which is really quite extraordinary. I’m not going to be rude about the second speaker for the proposition because he was an intellectual and I have no idea what he said.

    [laughter, applause]

    However, the first speaker for the proposition, I did understand at times and I thought he made a very decent summation of what the American dream actually is where he said it’s the idea that every generation will have a standard of living better than the last generation, and the idea that anybody can become president. Well, when we saw George W. Bush, we all thought anybody can become president.

    [laughter, applause]

    At least if their father had also been president and their brother was able to fix the election in Florida, but, um – the trouble with that dream is of course not only is it true that power in the United States is really, as we heard, held by a very, very small and wealthy elite, it’s that the idea is fundamentally flawed, because the idea that every generation would have a standard of living better than the last is fundamentally an idea about consumption and about consumerism and about the idea that human happiness lies in owning a lot of stuff. Because the truth is that infinite economic growth is not possible in a world of finite resources, and the American dream of infinite consumption has led the world into climate change and approaching disaster, and the United States has been the home of climate change denial and of blocking attempts to tackle the problem on the international stage. And that’s the real truth of where the American dream leads us. The American dream leads us into the idea that what you need to do is consume as many of the world’s resources as fast as you can, and to take for yourself as large a personal portion of that consumption as you can, and that the more you consume the more successful you are, until you are so fat and bloated and stupid you end up watching Fox News while eating McDonald’s and generally being entirely unpleasant.

    [laughter, reaction]

    I should say, I should say that it is not necessary to oppose this motion to view the idea that Europeans or British people are any more intelligent. It is not necessary to dislike Americans. It is not necessary to dislike Americans; I only do it as a hobby.

    [laughter, reaction]

    But we have to look at where the American dream has led us, and it has led us into an idea of American exceptionalism. And the truth is, the American dream was only ever founded on the dream for a small number of people, and it always ignored subclasses. The most obvious point being that the American dream involved the near annihilation of the Native American Indians, and the shameful history of land grab, of lies, of massacre, of disease, of starvation that has been the lot of the Native American Indians, in the pursuit of the American dream for a different people, is very true. And I would also say this, because I think I haven’t been controversial enough, that it seems dreadful to me that a key plank of American foreign policy is to repeat what was done to the American Indians and help Israel to do it to the Palestinians in terms of expropriating their land, herding them into camps, and starving them. That is the truth of the American dream today.

    Um, I was once a British diplomat. I was a British ambassador. I saw how the American dream works out in terms of the so-called war on terror. I saw the extraordinary rendition program. I saw intelligence from the CIA got under torture. I used to be in Uzbekistan and I would see the long list of intelligence from the CIA which people had signed up to under torture in which they would confess and give lists of names of Al Qaeda members who under torture people would admit to being themselves members of Al Qaeda and say, “These people are members of Al Qaeda too.” And often the person being tortured had never met any of these people, had no idea who they were. they were simply signing lists to stop being tortured. Occasionally I knew people on the lists, because the Karimov regime, exactly like the Mubarak regime or like many, many other dictatorships of whom the CIA and the United States have cooperated, they wanted to demonize their own opposition by labeling everybody as Al Qaeda. I once saw a CIA list of Al Qaeda members which included a man I knew, a professor, and that gentleman I have had dinner in his home and he was a Jehovah’s Witness. There are not many Jehovah’s Witnesses in Al Qaeda.

    [laughter]

    I am willing to be that Al Qaeda don’t even try and recruit Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    [laughter]

    I’m quite sure that Jehovah’s Witnesses would try and recruit Al Qaeda if they go there –

    [laughter, applause]

    – they’d be knocking on the cave door saying, “Mr. Bin Laden asked me to bring round a copy of the Watchtower.”

    [laughter]

    The truth is that like so much of the narrative o the war on terror, it was an exaggeration of the threat, an exaggeration that pretends that America faces an existential threat from the rest of the world in order to justify the massive control of the military-industrial complex in the United States, and that too is what the American dream has become. The American so-called Dream consists of American exceptionalism. The American so-called Dream consists of not signing Kyoto. The American so-called Dream consists of refusing to join the International Criminal Court. The American so-called Dream consists of the fact that they can extradite people from the United Kingdom to face criminal charges in the United States where that person has no defense before the UK courts and they are extradited to the United States despite the fact they have never been there, let alone having committed a crime in the United States. Ladies and gentlemen, we do not support rampant corruption. We do not support rampant selfishness. We do not support the destruction of international law. And what George Bush did to the United Nations in illegally invading Iraq was just as devastating as what Hitler did to the League of Nations when he invaded Poland, and I ask you to oppose this motion. Thank you.

    [applause]

    Just one more thing, if I gave an American Dream speech I could close my speech this way:

    Ladies and gentlemen, we do not support rampant corruption. We do not support rampant selfishness. We do not support the destruction of international law. And what George Bush did to the United Nations in illegally invading Iraq was just as devastating as what Hitler did to the League of Nations when he invaded Poland, and I ask you to support this motion. Thank you.

    God save the people, God save the planet.

  92. Iain Dung-Can Smith watch

    http://diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/extraordinary-dwp-refuse-point-blank-to.html

    Extraordinary! DWP Refuse Point Blank to engage with Spartacus

    A few weeks ago, Michael Meacher MP (Labour) came to see me in hospital. I had emailed him following his remarkable Atos debate, (the first to see cross party condemnation of ESA or Employment Support Allowance) to point out how much of the failure was the fault of Atos, and how much was actually controlled by the DWP.

    He was astonished and riveted as we talked and suggested there and then we arrange a meeting with Iain Duncan smith. Mr Meacher asked myself, Kaliya Franklin and Tom Greatrex (@tomgreatrexmp) another Labour MP who has opposed Work Capability Assessments (WCAs) )

    The extraordinary account of what happens next should be seen by every last person in the country. The following from Michael Meacher’s blog……

    “DWP Ministers run frit of seeing delegation on Atos HealthcareMarch 15th, 2013

    This week something happened which is without precedent in my 40 years of Parliamentary experience. On an issue of acute public importance where there had already been a Parliamentary debate revealing a total cross-party consensus solidly opposed to government policy, a Departmental minister then refused to see a delegation to discuss the matter further and to consider necessary changes in procedure. This issue, the work capability assessments carried out by Atos Healthcare, has been a top-line matter on the political agenda for many months now. I had therefore written to Iain Duncan Smith on 31 January asking him to receive a delegation from some of the key campaigning and analytical groups (I had, regrettably, to restrict this to three). I heard nothing for more than 5 weeks and therefore put down a Parliamentary Question on the Commons Order Paper asking when he proposed to answer my letter. As a result I got an immediate reply from Mark Hoban, the junior minister dealing with Atos matters, saying “my current diary requirements mean I am unable to accept your invitation at this time”. That is simply civil service-speak for a flat No. But I have taken the matter further.

    I therefore waylaid Hoban in the lobbies after a vote and as soon as he saw me, he said immediately “I’m not seeing you”. I was taken aback at his aggressiveness and said “But you can’t possibly do this , this is a matter of the highest political importance and it’s your responsibility to talk to and listen to key disability organisations about this matter, however contentious it might be”. He simply replied blankly “I’m not seeing you”, and repeated it 3 0r 4 times. I kept on insisting ‘Why not?’ and finally he said “I’m not seeing Spartacus”. Again I was taken aback and asserted that in my view Spartacus had analysed hundreds of cases, prepared a very detailed and thoughtful analysis of the implications arising from these cases, and even if he disagreed strongly for whatever reasons it was his responsibility to meet them. To this he simply kept repeating “I’m not meeting Spartacus”.

    After thinking over this exchange later I decided to apply for an Adjournment debate, not on Atos as such, but on ‘Ministers’ refusal to accept a delegation on Atos Healthcare’. I also went to see the Speaker about what I consider to be the unprecedented and wholly unreasonable and unacceptable behaviour of DWP ministers, and he listened carefully. I am now very pleased to say that I have obtained an Adjournment debate next Thursday, 21st, at 5pm in the Commons chamber. I intend to use this opportunity to bring this whole matter to a head.”

    So whatever happens guys, it looks like we have a date. Next Thursday? 5pm? I’ll bring popcorn if you promise to tell the whole world before then.

  93. Me in Us @ 9 ; 26 pm. Thank you for the transcript of Craig’s American Dream speech: Brilliant Speech, my hearing is F*cked, and i can’t hear all that’s said on some you tube vids.

    Cheers for that, And Peace from Scotland

  94. Hello Scotland! Love you too! Beautiful planet here today, and yours? :-)

  95. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Mar, 2013 - 11:47 pm

    John Goss wrote :

    “Guantanamo, as well as being a hellhole of torture, illegally occupies an area of Cuba formerly leased to the US.”.

    Wrong. The US exercises jurisdiction and control (but not sovereignty) over the Guantanamo base area by virtue of the 1903 treaty (granting a 99 year lease) and the 1934 treaty (granting a permanent- repeat permanent – lease).

    Hence it is incorrect to say that the US is illegally occupying it.

    **************

    La vita è bella, life is good!
    Any challenge under the Vienna convention on treaties is not possible because that convention does not apply to treaties concluded prior to itself.

  96. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Mar, 2013 - 12:04 am

    Splendid news from the government, which I am confident will greatly please the Eminences and other moaning minnies:

    1/ Govt. to close a £100 million National Insurance tax loophole

    2/. Govt likely to announce in the Budget a £1,5 billion childcare scheme to help with nursery costs.

    ************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  97. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Mar, 2013 - 12:17 am

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