The Official Tsarnaev Story Makes No Sense

by craig on April 22, 2013 11:35 am in Uncategorized

There are gaping holes in the official story of the Boston bombings.

We are asked to believe that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was identified by the Russian government as an extremist Dagestani or Chechen Islamist terrorist, and they were so concerned about it that in late 2010 they asked the US government to take action. At that time, the US and Russia did not normally have a security cooperation relationship over the Caucasus, particularly following the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008. For the Russians to ask the Americans for assistance, Tsarnaev must have been high on their list of worries.

In early 2011 the FBI interview Tsarnaev and trawl his papers and computers but apparently – remarkably for somebody allegedly radicalised by internet – the habitually paranoid FBI find nothing of concern.

So far, so weird. But now this gets utterly incredible. In 2012 Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who is of such concern to Russian security, is able to fly to Russia and pass through the airport security checks of the world’s most thoroughly and brutally efficient security services without being picked up. He is then able to proceed to Dagestan – right at the heart of the world’s heaviest military occupation and the world’s most far reaching secret police surveillance – again without being intercepted, and he is able there to go through some form of terror training or further Islamist indoctrination. He then flies out again without any intervention by the Russian security services.

That is the official story and I have no doubt it did not happen. I know Russia and I know the Russian security services. Whatever else they may be, they are extremely well-equipped, experienced and efficient and embedded into a social fabric accustomed to cooperation with their mastery. This scenario is simply impossible in the real world.

We have, by the official account, the involvement of the two Tsarnaev brothers, the FBI and the Russian security services. The FBI have a massive recent record of running agent provocateur operations to entrap gullible Muslims into terrorism. The Russian security services have form on false flag Chechen bombings. Where the truth lies may be difficult to dig out. But the above official version is not true.

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344 Comments

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  1. Notwithstanding the conspiracy theories, given the countless billions spent around the world on ‘Homeland Security’ since 9/11, the Tsarnaev story looks neither good nor credible.

  2. A bit like WMD’s, perhaps?

    “Further, the process of transformation,
    even if it brings revolutionary change, is
    likely to be a long one, absent some
    catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
    new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and
    industrial policy will shape the pace and
    content of transformation as much as the
    requirements of current missions.”

    PNAC (Neocon thinktank instrumental in Gulf 2 and very close to Israeli movers and shakers):
    http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

  3. Unbelievable fakery in the whole thing. Without going into all of the photolinks it can be seen that the site of the blast area was virtually fenced off before the incident and – when the smoke cleared – there suddenly appeared all of these casualties. The most prominent was the guy who lost 2 legs. Amazingly, he not only survived this trauma without treatment for over 30 minutes, but they decided not to put him in an ambulance and instead to wheel him past the press in a wheelchair. No blood loss apparent and his lips and face show nary a sign of trauma. Those interested might care to Google amputee actors, known to be used by the military to authenticate trauma situations during training. http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/04/pictures-that-prove-double-amputee-was-an-actor-at-boston-bombings-2626684.html

  4. unseenfootage

    22 Apr, 2013 - 12:31 pm

    We are informed that the FBI has informants in every mosque in America and even the Imams are compliant. It is quite surprising that the FBI allegedly had no knowledge that Tamerlan had disrupted the Friday sermon with “extremist” rhetoric at a Boston Mosque.

    Even more surprising is that they had to appeal to the public to identify who him and his brother were, when all the while, they had interviewed him at least once according to their admission and on several occasions according to the mother.

  5. I disagree with the mischaracterisation of the Russian ‘invasion’ of Georgia; quite apart from the will of people concerned to remain part of Russia, South Ossetia was only administratively part of Georgia as a bureaucratic convenience, lumped in during the creation of these assorted Soviet Socialist Republics, and Sakhashvilli was a US/Western puppet New Yorker, ‘friend of Miliband’. I wonder where Sakashvilli’s ragbag mercenary army, with overt US, British and Israeli arms and training are nowadays, and what they are up to? Posing as Syrians maybe? It never ceases to amaze how these tooled-up rent-a-jihad, private security, hired killer types so easily jetset around the globe, criss-cross borders and generally gallivant unhindered.

  6. Gideon

    But legs blown off in warfare do not bleed as profusely as you would expect; evidently the arteries somehow close off. Otherwise the very many survivors such as Nelson or Henry Paget, would very quickly bleed to death. To believe the bombings themselves were fake you would have to believe hundreds of eyewitnesses and medical staff were complicit. I do not countenance that.

  7. Cryptonym,

    The Stalin created borders of Soviet republics are indeed highly illogical, as are very many colonial borders. But nonetheless that Russia invaded Georgia is undeniable. You make a claim of justification; quite another question. In fact it was all about superpower politics and the oil and gas pipeline route from Central Asia and the Caspian; the idea that Putin had a deep personal concern for the problems of the people of South Ossetia is risible.

  8. Craig, I agree. And I heard stories from a nurse on the hospital ship in the Falklands about men returning from battle with their arms blown off who were still laughing and joking because of the battle-inspired endorphins (which, by the way, you might not find in a sudden, unexpected explosion). But they were still white as a sheet, which this man clearly is not. For the full ‘real-time’ exposure of the fake photographs see: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1602&sid=131932edfd90a3b3b7140c793aeffe91

  9. How about the fact that there was a bomb drill during the marathon? There were private military contractors at the event (quite well kitted out it seems, even had a radiation survey meter). Also how was Dzhokhar able to stand out of the boat after suffering a massive neck injury? https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/20/article-2311443-1965519A000005DC-483_964x542.jpg

    There is security cam footage that is being withheld that would shed some light on the event too.

    All too convenient i’m afraid, and that’s not even the whole story.

  10. And, by the way, why did they not put him in a stretcher or an ambulance but instead wheel him past the press at the finishing line guided by the phony cowboy?

  11. Oh God..not another conspiracy theory..I thought we had enough with 9-11 !

  12. Forgot to add – to provide hundreds of eyewitnesses. No conspiracy here Frazer, just a healthy regard for the observed facts, without slavish bowing to our political masters who term all critical thinking as ‘conspiracy theory’ to keep the unthinking plebs just that way.

  13. Didn’t think the double amputee in the pics looked exactly on top of the world, myself. If I’d seen him in the street, with or without legs, I would probably asked him if I could help… You might try telling some Bostonians that their relatives were professional false-flag operatives, though. I think their reaction would convince you of the contrary.

    But “why?” is an altogether different question. Theory: the objection that the Chechens should have nothing against the US, as their enemy is Russia, would be called into question if Tsarnaev were involved with Imarat Kavkaz – proscribed by both the US and Russia and allegedly linked to AQ (whatever that is). IK is represented across the region, including Dagestan.

  14. @ Frazer,

    Many who want to discredit the asking of reasonable and logical questions about the official version of a story making national – and/or – international news have a tendency to use the phrase “conspiracy theory” to discredit either the questions being asked or the questioner.
    While some persons make outlandish and unsubstantiated claims through leaps of logic – this want of logical thought – surely cuts both ways. Those supporting the official narrative and those questioning or opposing the official story line can both be flawed by way of being flawed in their logic. This, would be more to the point, once one examines quite clearly and logically a version of a story might through such examination be ascertained to stand or fall, regardless of whichever side of the status quo one is more inclined to be on.
    With the foregoing thoughts in mind, I repeat my line of thinking at present – until someone demolishes my line of reasoning or replaces the view I have formed with something more logical, more consistent with the facts that will project “truth” into the events surrounding the Boston bombing.
    I observe and comment – thus:-
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/boston-suspect-arrested-stripped-naked-so-when-was-he-shot-and-killed/5332316
    A. One brother, in the video is told come out of the car and strip naked – which he does.
    B. He is taken naked into custody and is arrested.
    C. Next, we hear in the mainstream media of a shoot-out and that he is shot dead.
    We have A and B on the video – so by what credible and logical process of reasoning do we ever arrive at “C”?
    So, further, without conjecture.

    A. There are two(2) brothers – and these have been the focal point of attention as the mass media has been reminding us ever since the Boston bombing.
    B. We remove one brother from the equation (i.e. since he is arrested – in custody – no longer a threat). So – we get to:-

    C. That leaves one (1) brother we know to have been shot ( under what circumstances we have yet to ascertain – but he is shot and is still in a serious condition). So, we can all reason that what we saw on the video footage was footage of the one that was killed – not the one shot and placed in a serious condition.

    Surely, if a man is already in custody and alive – then when he is shot – under what circumstances can such a shooting and killing of a man who already had stripped naked be justified homicide?

    Simple questions inviting comments and/or answers from all.
    CB

  15. Komodo

    But accepting for a moment that Tamerlan is a member of a genuine Jihadist group called IK – it would be impossible for him, already on the Russian security services lists to the extent that they had contacted the US authorities about him, to swan in to Russia and travel down to Dagestan to see IK. Just couldn’t happen. I know someone who was picked up arriving at St Petersburg airport because of an allegation that her husband had stolen a car in Kazakhstan eleven years previously – took her six weeks to get out of a very very unpleasant detention.

  16. Blowing up two bombs at the Boston Marathon and killing 3 people and maiming 170 more people makes no sense.

  17. Courtenay

    Wow, that video is extremely troubling – but I find suggestions on the internet it is not one of the Tsarnaevs and an unconnected incident.

  18. Will this make any of the Lemming Folk think outside the box?

    http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/events_n-497×640.jpg

  19. I had a rather chilling thought, even before reading this post. It strikes me that the security services of various countries have much, much more in common with each other than they do their own people, even if these security services are nominally representing enemy states. So Putin’s mob may well have areas of interest with … well, whoever is in charge in the US. You know, business links, social links, a general interest in keeping matters … doublespeak calm. That kind of thing.

    Not a pleasant thought for the evening, for sure.

    Also, the official version is never true. This is becoming, for me, somewhat axiomatic: we are always lied to, and this is just accepted as how things should be. It’s just kinda routine now, maybe it always was.

  20. Craig and Komodo. I do think that you are both off track in discussing the political implications of the supposed patsies. This was a pure FBI set-up with, no doubt, several patsies involved. Somehow it went wrong when the Saudi patsy was dismissed so they changed it to the brothers whom they also had on their list. There is no evidence whatsoever that these two brothers were involved. Putin might have been tempted to play along with the Chechian connection to embarrass the Americans over CIA support, but this whole thing is just a smokescreen for yet another FBI-instigated terror event to test police lockdowns etc. And, Komodo, of course the amputee looked pretty unwell – he is a professional actor.

  21. “somebody allegedly radicalised by internet”

    “accepting for a moment that Tamerlan is a member of a genuine Jihadist group called IK”

    Where does this notion that the brothers were ‘radicalised’ muslims come from and what’s the evidence? According to the BBC:

    “Russian news agency RIA Novosti says “extremist material” was on the YouTube account belonging to Tamerlan.

    “The BBC has been unable to confirm the information about material on the page.

    “Several albums were posted, one of them titled ‘Terrorist’. The album contains two video clips, which are inaccessible, because the account linked to them has been removed”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22219116

  22. Murray sounds like a real fruitcake.

    Murray separated from his first wife, Fiona after starting a relationship with Nadira Alieva, an Uzbek woman whom he met in a lapdancing club in Tashkent.

    On 21 August 2003 he was confronted with 18 charges. These included “hiring dolly birds [pretty young women] for above the usual rate” for the visa department, though he claims that the department had an all-male staff, and granting UK visas in exchange for sex.

  23. Lacked time to look into this and all the material mentioned in it, but coming from Sibel Edmonds it may well deserve very serious attention: http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/04/19/usa-the-creator-sustainer-of-chechen-terrorism/

  24. MJ

    Yes. “Allegedly” and “Accepting for a moment” are intended to indicate the same scepticism.

  25. So they put forward the theory that a young moslem could have been ‘radicalised’ by following jihadi websites etc. , but what about being the subject of ‘anti-terrorist interview’ ?
    The drive towards more and more anti-terrorist action may itself be a
    source of radicalisation.
    What would have happened if the FBI had just skipped their interview?

  26. @ Mryulop. Please fuck off.

  27. @ mryuiop,

    “Murray separated from his first wife, Fiona after starting a relationship with Nadira Alieva, an Uzbek woman whom he met in a lapdancing club in Tashkent.”

    Is that as low as you can go – or is there a lower personal level of personal attack that you can sink to?

    I too must be another “fruit cake” as you term it – having myself gone out clubbing with the boys, and having had a divorce. Is that all it takes to destroy a man by reference to his human history and the errors of judgments that some of us men do make?

    So – as I understand your reasoning -a man is acquitted of charges – but on the same man’s blog – under your jurisdiction – you find him “guilty”.

    Pathetic commentary on your part.

  28. mryuiop: you forgot to mention that Craig was subsequently cleared of all charges.

  29. Mryulop,

    Predictably you fail to mention that Craig Murray was subsequently cleared of all charges.

    Do try and keep up.

  30. As has been said Frazer
    22 Apr, 2013 – 1:06 pm – the US Government created a conspiracy theory regarding 9/11 that was swallowed by world opinion hook line and sinker. It has now been conclusively proved in ALL RESPECTS to be lies yet those who have uncovered the truth (in as far as it is possible) have been labelled “con·spir·a·cist”.

  31. OT – User Blocking Script

    After a bit of fiddling around I have made a very basic user script that allows people to block/ignore other posters. It’s still very rough, but the basic functionality is there. Under each nickname is a button to block/unblock comments. Blocked comments are not visible but the posters username is still in place, but greyed out a bit. If you really want to waggle a loose tooth, you can click on the blocked users icon and their posts will be visible until next page load. It does show all their posts, so the page may scroll down a bit.

    I have added a few visual tweaks, so the comments look a little prettier. I also fixed a css bug so that long nicknames no longer cause comment boxes to drop down a few rows.

    For the paranoid and technically inclined, sorry I was feeling lazy so I have included a call for jquery from google. However it is only called once before being cached (and I don’t believe google can associate the call with this site as it is being called by my external script).

    Feel free to make any suggestions/requests and I will look into it. If people want to improve on it, please go nuts. It’s all very rough and none too pretty, but it gets the job done. I will probably be making some improvements of my own when I have a little more time.

    – Install Instructions

    You can find the script at http://freetexthost.com/u32z3v6lxg
    You just need to copy the entire text (excluding the view count etc) and then follow the browser specific instructions below.

    Firefox Users: First install the add-on ‘Greasemonkey’. Click the small arrow next to the ‘Greasemonkey’ icon on the toolbar and select ‘New User Script’. Now click ‘Use Script from clipboard’. (NOTE, the script must already be copied as in copy/paste when you click ‘New User Script’ or the option to paste will not be visible in the next screen) Close the new window and your done.

    Chrome: Install Install the extension ‘Tampermonkey’. Click the ‘Tampermonkey’ icon in the toolbar and select ‘Add a new script’. In the ‘Editor’ window, remove the 10 example lines of code and copy/paste my script in its place. Now click ‘Save’. Done.

    IE: Bad Luck

  32. Adrian Haburkuk (age 7yrs 5months and tree weecs)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 2:39 pm

    My Dad is too busy with the next crushing entry on the LSE/North Korea thread so I’ll just have to stand in and demollish the tin-hat brigade myself.

    We get so tird of all these constant conspirucy types (Espeshully Mary who is under the quaynt impreshun that prodoosing evidence has got sumthing to do with trying to get the story right).

    Acording to these rather naeeve woolly-hatted intellechewls, every official narrative is always taylored by finanshul and military eleets towards the end of keeping public frigtened and, subdood and willing to axept increasing militarization, internal represhun, privatizashun and indettidness.

    And every time, all they have to contribewt to undurstanding an ishoe is evidence and lodgic. That’s SO predictuble and BORING.

    My Dad says these people will probly soon start to queschun why the media editors have all but ignord the Waco explojun story, while simultaneeusly giving brethless blanket covrage of the events in Boston. Then the rusty cogs of their amater investigashun will creek into life and, Hey Ho, more evidence and lojic landing here for us to clean up.

    I feel so sory for them. When will they realize that much more powerful brains than theirs have dificult and painfull decisjuns to make. They carry the heavy responsibiluty of protekting all of us from our enemies. By diging and poking at every explanashun in the meedia they do the enemy’s work for them.

    These photos clearly show superfishul damage at Waco.

    http://ph.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Ar5GRdYFc38O7N_OoBeW8BZUnMl_;_ylu=X3oDMTBoZXBvYzBnBHNlYwNVSCBTZWFyY2ggMTAw;_ylg=X3oDMTJtazdnZmduBGludGwDcGgEbGFuZwNlbi1waARwc3RhaWQDYzU2OGMyMGQtNmEyNS0zMTQ0LWIwYmYtNzY5ZWM2MzJkY2FkBHBzdGNhdAMxcGhvdG8EcHQDMXBob3Rv?p=waco+fertilizer+explosion+images&fr=ush-globalnews

    (Admit it you’re impressed with the size of my link, aren’t you?)

    My dad says there’s nothing here that a quick lik of paynt would’nt sort out in an afturnoon. Only a mad-man would claim that windows shatured 11 kilomeeters away. And they would be totally irrisponsible if they started to ask about the safty of the 44 other fertilliser plants and thowsands of commershull stockpiles of ammonionimum nitrate scatured threw-out the US. It woud be in such poor tayst to ask what corzes the most trawma, a fertiliser detonashun caused by deeregulation and poor safety culcher or one caused delibritly by terrurists. With this kind of thing people might even ask if they need terurrists at all when they have corparayshuns.

  33. I’m not convinced that the official story is not true.

    Certainly, the Russians wouldn’t want any radical getting up to no good on home turf, but there is value in following suspects to see who they associate with and what they might be planning. If the Russians thought that Tsarnaev was planning on doing harm in the US, they might have allowed it for the PR value and consequent US sympathy. But where is the evidence? There are many explanations for how people can get away with what they do. Incompetence, laziness, indifference, stupidity and corruption help. While plausible speculation is fun and entertaining, you still can’t build a solid case out of it.

  34. Info gathered from elsewhere. Some points that puzzle me.

    Who are all the people in the bombing photos who appear to be members of Craft International (Blackwater type company). Why cannot they be mentioned in tv coverage? See http://imgur.com/a/sUrnA

    Who robbed the 7-11 to attract police to suspects? First we were told it was the suspects now we are told it was some other random armed robbers who happened to turn up at same time. Oh yeah? Did armed robbers kill policeman not suspects?

    Who is/are the Saudi national/nationals that cannot be mentioned either.

    Why did Suspect2 2 wear his white cap back backwards thus ensuring his identification.

    Is the woman in this pic wearing sunglasses standing next to the kid who lost his life the same woman seen in this pic https://i.imgur.com/CbotmNk.jpg
    If so how did she get there uninjured?

    Who was the original suspect they had and then they said they didn’t have? Was he the mysterious Saudi national.

    The FBI hostage rescue team arrived just in the nick of time to prevent the assassination of suspect #2 as assets on scene were about to burn him alive. Those listening on police scanner heard “We have a conflict of plans we need to resolve immediately. We have orders from the top to go for negotiation.” And the kill team was called off just at the very last moment.

    Had the brothers been recruited by “friendly forces”. If so were they double agents? Were they set up?

    Lockdown of Boston.

    Were authorities0 looking for other players? Possibly trying to cover-up/distract/assure desired outcome? – maybe committed 7-11 robbery to draw police attention in direction of suspects?

    If anything like that suspected then lockdown severely restricts their abilities to operate as well.

  35. And – from the official story – what, precisely, is the evidence that these 2 boys were involved in any way?

  36. Is the woman in this pic wearing sunglasses standing next to the kid who lost his life the same woman seen in this pic https://i.imgur.com/CbotmNk.jpg
    If so how did she get there uninjured

    Second pic was http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/thelede/posts/suspect-number-2.JPG

  37. @ Craig
    “Wow, that video is extremely troubling – but I find suggestions on the internet it is not one of the Tsarnaevs and an unconnected incident”
    At this point, I can but comment as follows:-
    1. The person being arrested does look like Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
    2. If the arrest was related to a different and unconnected incident – then that “different incident” would still have coincided with the very period of the bombing, and since Tamerlan Tsarnaev was a suspect, it would be an odd arrest that would have arrested another and not Tamerlan Tsarnaev himself pertaining to another incident occasioned at or around the same time of the bombing.
    3. Surely, the journalist is clearly there in the video speaking directly to his eye witness account of events that pertain directly to the post-bombing search for suspects.
    4. The video appeared on CNN and seems to be projecting to the public the arrest of Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
    See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS8CAUFFSMU – the next video mentions CNN retracting the earlier information announcing that a suspect was arrested:-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJbNdY4c18E
    The retraction would be consistent with an attempt to find a new narrative once independent observers started posting youtube videos that either directly challenged and/or questioned the official mainstream media’s version.
    And here is another mainstream media video of someone ( Tsarnaev ?) on his stomach lying flat on the roadway. Can we now begin to piece the original dead Tsarnaev together and link to the man subsequently ( Tsarnaev ?) lying flat and come up with a credible narrative to make the official sequence of events ever fit logically together?:-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixvDUaMDPko

    Where is the solid case so far built out of the public information that has been disseminated about the brothers?
    CB

  38. Note this from DEBKA (Israeli source note).

    http://www.debka.com/article/22914/The-Tsarnaev-brothers-were-double-agents-who-decoyed-US-into-terror-trap

    Definitely more to this than meets eye.

  39. It has been suggested elsewhere that there is a clue in this article and photos http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2312281/Tamerlan-Tsarnaev-EXCLUSIVE-Family-Boston-Marathon-bombers-widow-Katherine-Russell-puts-Rhode-Island-home-sale-day-police-shot-son-law-dead.html

    If the suggestion is true then it is astonishing. Anyone else notice an extra connection? Possibly it is nonsense so I won’t mention the suggested additional connection. Just wondering if anyone else spots the same thing pointed out elsewhere without prompting.

  40. resident dissident

    22 Apr, 2013 - 3:12 pm

    I think Craig is making the assumption that the FSB are in full control of events in Dagestan and Chechenya when there is much evidence saying otherwise. It would be interesting to know what route Tsarnaev took to arrive in Dagestan for his six month holiday – but even then I think Craig is a little out of date if you don’t think there are ways around security even at the major Russian airports.

    While I have little time for Putin and his colleagues, and I wouldn’t deny that he is above false flag operations, I very much doubt that he would take the risk of setting off bombs at the Boston Marathon or turning a blind eye while someone else does. As a former KGB officer and head he would probably have a pretty good idea of the depth of the FBI investigation would follow – and of the consequences that would follow if his or the FSB’s fingerprints were to be found anywhere near. Lets just say that the sh**storm that would follow would make the Livinenko affair pale into insignificance (and given the effort that has been made by the Russians to recover from that I very much doubt that Putin would have the appetite for a considerably larger repeat performance) and I suspect that Putin would also be extremely wary of the likely damage to his financial interests and those of his friends.

    There is no denying that that Putin is quite capable of despotic behaviour when it suits him – but there perhaps needs to be some recognition that he is far from being the only despot operating in the Caucuses at the present – there is plenty oif evidence that there is plenty of Islamist inspired terrorism as well as the Russian variety. I would recommend Tolstoy’s Hadji Murat if anyone needs evidence that this clash of two despotisms has been going on for rather a long time now.

  41. @CheebaCow
    22 Apr, 2013 – 2:39 pm

    Thank you! I’ve applied that in Firefox.

  42. FFS! How many more times? Debka.com is a disinformation site, renowned in song and story. If it told me the earth went round the sun, I’d be tempted to adopt the hollow-earth theory. Really. Bunch of liars, either with the assistance of Israel or intended to make Israel look even rottener.

  43. doug scorgie

    22 Apr, 2013 - 3:42 pm

    mryuiop
    22 Apr, 2013 – 1:36 pm

    “Blowing up two bombs at the Boston Marathon and killing 3 people and maiming 170 more people makes no sense.”

    It happened Mryuiop so it made sense to someone.

  44. Michael Stephenson

    22 Apr, 2013 - 3:50 pm

    I really suspect that this could be an FBI sting operation that went awry.

    Considering how many potential terrorist they have “stung” using convicts to convince them to turn to terrorism, so they can then be arrested and tried on terrorism charges. 150 since 9/11 IIRC

    Why would they just give these guys the all clear after having already suspected and interviews them? It seems standard procedure is to set them up then bust them.

    Why would this be any different?

  45. Let me throw in a (not The) Muslim perspective.

    First, I grieve for those people who lost family. I grieve for those who lost limbs and must live the rest of their lives recovering. Second, I was so angry that this was allegedly by a Muslim. I wanted so much that Muslims had nothing to do with this and literally cursed (I never curse) when I learned it was by two Muslims. If it was really him, I hope he gets prosecuted to the fullest extent and hope the victims find peace amist the pain.

    I also see some things fishy about this story, mostly about his path towards radicalization.

    1) I find it highly questionable that Tamerlan suddenly became “religious” and “suddenly” went crazy. I grant you, “sudden religious syndrome” can lead to absurdities, but his life didn’t seem particularly pious to begin with. He had none of the outward signs of religiosity — in fact, in many cases had the exact opposite. Dzhokhar’s Russian Facebook page said he was interested in “Money and Power”. Pretty worldly for would-be martyrs.

    Being outgoing and friendly are not exactly questionable qualities.

    2) These two were raised in the US and came to know people here. Just meeting people and knowing what we (Americans) are like would have tempered their minds against radicalism.

    3) The YouTube speakers he was listening to were not “radicals”. His YouTube playlist included Feiz Mohammad. He belongs to the non-political line of Salafiyya (Salafi/Wahabi), who may be upset at US behaviors abroad, but are actively anti-terrorism. Feiz Mohammad is primarily known for his technical theology, not politicism. I dislike Salafiyya/Wahabiyya, but this strain is actively anti-radical.

    4) The Second Chechen war ended about a decade ago and the few remaining seperatists are weak and largely rejected by the Chechen people. Its over. What would his motive even have been? Chechens oppose Russia, not the US — in fact, the US was sympathetic to their cause pre-9/11.

    Again, if its him, I hope he goes to jail forever or gets the chair. But I’m so deeply deeply sad that ever this happened.

  46. Gideon,

    For somebody so keen to encourage google use, you seem quite adverse to doing so yourself.

    How convenient for the spooks that they concocted so quickly a fake history for Mr phoney cowoy, or as he is known in the real world Carlos Arredondo.
    You can read about him via the website of that famous mouthpiece of the US government Michael Moore: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/carlos-arredondo-boston-and-the-worlds-hero

    The guy in the wheel chair is not an actor, his name is Jeff Bauman Jr (perhaps you would like to google that name) he really has just had both of his legs blown off. The reason there may be not as much blood as you might hope is because Carlos has tied up his legs with makeshift tourniquets, and I believe in his right hand he is squeezing off a vein or artery.

    Carlos Arredondo is a hero and it sickens me that people like you are quite happy to drag him through the mud to further your own agenda.

    There is certainly a lot that is very fishy about this whole incident yes, but spreading malicious and false information like this only provides ammunition to those that would insist that we all look the other way and simply accept official explanations, while labelling all detractors loony conspiracy theorists. People like you make their job so much easier and it is tragic that you seem to see yourself as some sort of vanguard for truth when you cannot be bothered to even check! but just regurgitate what you read online. (almost like some unthinking pleb!)

    For other Boston BS hoax de-bunking, the ever trustworthy snopes is your friend…
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/boston.asp
    In particular please see the heading “False Victim”.

    If you cannot verify what you are posting online it might be a better idea to not post at all, or at the very least to not do so with such conviction and apparent veracity. It is not difficult to do, it just takes a little bit of independent thought, and a bit more time.

  47. Komodo,

    I am fully aware of what DEBKA is. You can modify their version of events accordingly…8

  48. Re Waco explosion: astonishing footage here (it’s only 14 seconds):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mpUJ5IIgIY

    There’s an interesting sound. Also, if you’re able to view it frame by frame, the frame immediately prior to the explosion contains an interesting detail.

  49. Dreoilin:

    Is it working ok? =)

  50. Victor Tashkentskiy

    22 Apr, 2013 - 4:11 pm

    Not only he traveled to Russia or troubled region of Dagestan, but also he was able to renew his Russian passport in 2012!!!.
    http://lenta.ru/news/2013/04/22/dagestan/
    Wow, that’s amazing. Russians, like many other former soviet republics, scrutinize applicants for passports or passport renewals so much so that you have to give information almost on all relatives and your life and work history. What is more amazing is that Russian migration services confirm he had submitted all documents and claimed that his previous passport was lost in Boston! Shite is happening all over the place.

  51. Well this may be some sort of complex conspiracy involving unlikely cooperation between the FSB and CIA/FBI or there may be a simpler explanation. He could’ve travelled on false/stolen papers, easy enough to obtain if you know the right people and we don’t know for sure what route he took, only that he left the US in January and turned up in Dagestan in March or May. Plenty of time to take the long way round and sneak in via Georgia or Ajerbaijan; or by boat.

    Always a sound idea to consider the more sensible options before developing improbable conspiracy theories.

  52. Craig:
    “But accepting for a moment that Tamerlan is a member of a genuine Jihadist group called IK – it would be impossible for him, already on the Russian security services lists to the extent that they had contacted the US authorities about him, to swan in to Russia and travel down to Dagestan to see IK. Just couldn’t happen.”

    But if he’d travelled to Dagestan to see his entirely uninvolved friends and relations, it might have been an easier matter. And would it have been necessary to travel to Dagestan at all? As far as I can see the Chechen US diaspora is pretty well centred on Boston. I’d be very surprised if IK were unrepresented there. Though that gets us back to the question of why the FBI didn’t have a line on him. And so on, in circles.

  53. Anon:
    I do. I ignore them completely. What comes out of Debka is guaranteed disinformation. Using it as a source is pointless.

  54. Was this tweet by the younger brother a clue in case something happened to him.

    https://twitter.com/J_tsar/status/290227971292282881

    Met this marine yesterday who said he doesn’t give his name out to “unclassified personnel” he then proceeded to tell me his name quietly

    2:45 PM – 12 Jan 13

    It is surprising his twitter account is still active.

  55. Komodo,
    the suspects’ father says his elder son rang him a day after explosions and told him that FBI officers had called him and told him that he was being suspected. Tamerlane, according to his father, was taking his brother (in his car) to college when he was shot dead. He also says his elder son has received several phone calls from FBI officers previously. I don’t still understand if a man was flagged don’t you notice whether he is piling armors or explosives or not?. Don’t you notice whether he is contacting someone who is teaching him how to make explosives, because according to an FBI officer who gave an interview yesterday “the explosives were difficult to compound, and there are accomplices who helped in this”.

  56. Cheebacow,

    Im on an IPhone so cant test your new feature out alas..

    But thanks very much for your time and effort on this.

    Im sure it will be invaluable on my desktop PC.

    Cheers.

  57. Another photo of person initially described by police as Suspect 1 as he was being arrested. Looks like him certainly. If not him then he has a great story to tell the press. Where is it?

    https://twitter.com/CBS8/status/325148541762801664/photo/1

  58. Uzbek in the UK

    22 Apr, 2013 - 4:44 pm

    Well spotted Mr Murray.

    For a person on Russian FSB (former KGB) security list is virtually impossible to cross Russian border unnoticed and even more impossible to travel to Dagestan which as you well put it – one of the most heavily securitised place in the world. And Tamerlan would have been in Russian FSB list if they raised their concerns with FBI.

    I said again and again that Russia is no better than US and in my opinion is much worse when it comes to their national (Putin and gang’s) interests.

    In my opinion it was carefully planned FSB operation which was aimed at destabilising Chechen nationalist links with western governments. Although foreign radical Islamist fought in Chechen wars, Chechens themselves have rarely expressed their support with international jihhadi movements. With the exception of several Brits who were beheaded in Chechnya there were no cases when Chechens were involved in killing any foreigners. And even in this case it is still argued that this most likely was a work of few foreign radical Islamist who were operating in Chechenya back then.

    For Putin whose dissatisfaction with current quasi criminal Chechen president Ramzan Kadirov is obvious the case of breaking links between west and Chechen nationalist is key in his future plans of regime change in Chechnya.

  59. Uzbek in the UK

    22 Apr, 2013 - 4:49 pm

    Information in the link provided by Victor Tashkentsky is yet another proof that Tamerlan had never been in any FSB lists. Getting any former soviet republics passport is huge pain in the neck and applications are scrutinised by several agencies including FSB. For someone on their security alert list it would be impossible to receive the passport without at least being invited for questioning.

  60. Some “agency” arranged to setup the brothers unaware the brothers were “agents” for someone else?

    What will the younger brother say. Interesting he was terrified of the police but surrendered close to death to the FBI Hostage Rescue Team as soon as it appeared on scene if accounts are true.

  61. Adrian Haburkuk (age 7yrs 5months and tree weecs),
    go tell your dad to take his pills on time. He probably missed the previous one trying to teach you to his own insanity.

  62. What will the younger brother say. Interesting he was terrified of the police but surrendered close to death to the FBI Hostage Rescue Team as soon as it appeared on scene if accounts are true.

    And who was the FBI agent who shouted out to him that he could set his conditions for coming out? Did a frightened 19 year old, preparing to die, for the first time since the nightmare began here a familiar voice?

    But maybe he is guilty as hell. I don’t know but some things just seem very wrong.

  63. And who was the FBI agent who shouted out to him that he could set his conditions for coming out? Did a frightened 19 year old, preparing to die, for the first time since the nightmare began here a familiar voice?

    “hear a familiar voice” I meant obviously.

  64. “What will the younger brother say. Interesting he was terrified of the police but surrendered close to death to the FBI Hostage Rescue Team ”

    I thought he’d tried to commit suicide by shooting himself through the throat and wasn’t going to be saying anything; or did I read that wrong?

  65. Frazer at 13h06 says :

    “Oh God..not another conspiracy theory..I thought we had enough with 9-11 !”.

    I fully agree. I’m sure we haven’t heard all of the story yet (if only because Dzokar hasn’t been interrogated yet), but to immediately start up with speculations like “the legless man was an actor and faking it” is immediately right over the top (and I’m trying to put it kindly).

    PS to Frazer : you’ve forgotten the Al-Hillil thread, I guess; that was a real field day for every soothsayer, amateur detective and conspiracy theorist in the blogosphere.

  66. Kempe,

    Nobody has said definitely that he shot himself in the neck. There is also the photo of him climbing out of the boat. Just before the FBI arrived the police had fired dozens of rounds at the boat followed by flash-bang grenades. The police helicopter overhead could see the suspect under the remains of the tarpaulin cover and told the ground where in the boat to aim the flash-bangs. One hit him right about the head and neck area. On the open channel being broadcast over the internet (they often forgot that in the heat of the moment) it was clear that they were just about to fire incendiary devices into the boat having established it had 20 gallons of fuel on-board according to the owners. Suspect was described as alternatively “motionless” and “flailing about” in boat after multiple flash-bang hits and a boat that looked like a sieve with bullet holes. So they decided setting fire to it would do what was needed.

    Then a miracle occurred and after some strong words (instructions from the top) the FBI Hostage Rescue Team ordered all other agencies “back to the perimeter” and sniper teams off of roofs.

    At one point it was even said “We have a problem. This down link is being broadcast live on the internet”. But too much had already been said.

  67. @ Hab,

    Many who want to discredit the asking of reasonable and logical questions about the official version of a story making national – and/or – international news have a tendency to use the phrase “conspiracy theory” to discredit either the questions being asked or the questioner.

    While some persons make outlandish and unsubstantiated claims:-

    “…like “the legless man was an actor and faking it” is immediately right over the top (and I’m trying to put it kindly).”

    through leaps of logic – this want of logical thought – surely cuts both ways.

    PS. Life is good – and it remains good to question and understand the world around us – surely – Hab?

  68. You believe in Russians blowing up buildings as part of a conspiracy theory but you reject 911? Craig, please let me slap you.

  69. @CheebaCow

    Yes indeed. So far so good! Thanks again.

  70. I find it strange that so many “terror drills” seem to simultaneously occur at terrorist incidents in the last few years.

  71. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 6:29 pm

    A lot of unanswered questions we won’t be privy to. The Elder was supposedly shot, but then we learn (?) he was run over my his brother while on the ground in handcuffs. What was the COD? Was the younger bro a ‘Stockholm’ type. The elder was a control-freak who beat his gf, always angry. He may have been an ideal candidate for radicalization, due to his combatant nature. It seems a good deal of restraint was shown by cops who were under fire from the boat. Someone wanted him alive, because the
    knee-jerk of law enforcement is to saturate the landscape with ordnance (See Christopher Dorner) Why? Ostensibly due to the same wish we all share, to hear some answers as to why the FBI let yet another surveilled person of interest slip out of their grasp.

  72. Provocator_Not

    22 Apr, 2013 - 6:35 pm

    Ben, Unleaded

    “The elder was a control-freak who beat his gf, always angry”.
    – You mean his wife who is a convert from Christianity? As far as I understand she says her husband had no “rogue” changes in her behavior, and she is refusing to give interviews.

  73. Ben,

    No it was very, very clear that the police and other assets wanted him dead – in fact they had only stopped firing things into the boat when they thought they had killed him (with flash-bang hits to head knocking him unconscious for a time but not dead?) I was listening live to the police incident channel as were hundreds of thousand of others. The arrival of the FBI HRT (arriving/departing via Coast Guard helicopter?) was all that saved him suffering the familiar fate. Five minutes later and he would have been dead,

  74. Ben,

    In fact, recall that Fox News and others initially reported live that suspect 2 had been killed in a police shoot out at the boat according to their sources. It was only when he started moving again after some time they realised he was still alive and they had to retract that. He is very lucky to be alive. I didn’t think Superman could have got him out of that alive – but the FBI HRT did.

  75. “The surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings has been charged in his hospital bed, US media report.

    “The complaint against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was sealed, so details of the charges are not known, local channel WCVB said.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22257451

    Well that’s helpful …

  76. Dreoilin & Jives:

    You are very welcome.

  77. Other sources saying he’s been charged with “conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction against persons and property in US resulting in death”.

    and this charge carries the death penalty.

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cfc1ce9e-ab71-11e2-8c63-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2RDZbaGEc

  78. I’m not revealing my own view yet but I’m posting this for the habitual babbler family.

    http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2383138&sid=51cf1c313dcf9001da7e744a34208e98

  79. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 7:48 pm

    Sorry Anon. I seem to be suffering from overload picking up bits of bread trying to find my way home on this. I really am exhausted from the lack of reliable information. They will tell us when they decide it’s in their interests. Ha

  80. Just out of interest, were the accused to have been white, far-right extremists, would there have been the same effort put into finding a conspiracy here?

    I think not.

  81. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 8:03 pm

    Same Circus, different clowns Giles. Boston happened on Patriot’s Day, which is a fav of the Supremacists. There were quite a few incidents, Stateside, which led me to think them responsible. It’s true that the rightwing tends to tamp down the threat from domestic white terror, but the marionettes dance to a dog-whistle tune and the composer comes from the same music school.

  82. “Norwegian Killer Linked to Tea Party and EDL”

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

  83. This petition is important. It is from an organisation based in Massachusetts who are concerned that the Boston marathon event is not used to remove civil liberties, increase surveillance and further remove individual freedom.

    http://act.demandprogress.org/sign/boston_response/?akid=2130.2257080.eMI0Es&rd=1&t=2

  84. “But legs blown off in warfare do not bleed as profusely as you would expect; evidently the arteries somehow close off. Otherwise the very many survivors such as Nelson or Henry Paget, would very quickly bleed to death. To believe the bombings themselves were fake you would have to believe hundreds of eyewitnesses and medical staff were complicit. I do not countenance that.”

    Well not quite!

    You should read this:
    http://www.medicalsci.eu/files/tccc_dorlac_isolated_civilian_penetrating_extremity_j_trauma_2005.pdf

    “Results: Fourteen patients meeting inclusion criteria were identified from over 75,000 trauma emergency center (EC) visits. Average age was 31 years and 93% were males. Gunshot wounds accounted for 50% of the injuries. The exsanguinating wound was in the lower extremity in 10/14 (71%) patients and proximal to the elbow or knee in 12/14 (86%). Ten (71%) had both a major artery and vein injured; one had only a venous injury. Prehospital hemorrhage control was primarily by gauze dressings. Twelve (86%) had “signs of life” in the field, but none had a discernable blood pressure or pulse upon arrival at the EC.
    Prehospital intravenous access was not obtained in 10 patients (71%). Nine patients
    underwent ECT, and nine were initially resuscitated (eight with ECT and one with CPR). Those undergoing operative repair received an average of 26  14 units of packed red blood cells. All patients died, 93% succumbing within 12 hours.”

  85. Article in The Guardian – published eight hours after this one – echoing a lot of what I say with more information from the Russian end.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/22/tamerlan-tsarnaev-dagestan-boston-bombing

    Interesting that the Russian authorities are denying Tamerlan was of interest to them, and denying that he was in Dagestan in 2012

  86. Sorry, correct link:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/norwegian-killer-linked-to-tea-party-and-edl/

    Serious lack of questioning of the “official narrative” in there, chaps. Seems like a willingness to “swallow official line”! Fits with the preferred version, doesn’t it, Sheeple?!

    Let’s just say:

    Muslims responsible = fake/conspiracy.
    Far-right responsible = spot on, Govt, thanks so much!

  87. Yet, Habakkuk, we still do not know who killed the Al Hilli family, or why. Is that thread still going, btw? I drop in occasionally, to say hello to the good people there.
    .
    MAAT, if you read the Methods of that study to which you linked, you will see that the study’s authors deliberately selected those patients who arrived at A and E in cardiac arrest and subsequently died. They did not analyse the ones who arrived at A ad E not in cardiac arrest, nor did they slecet the ones who survived. What they found was that all the patients who arrived at A and E in cardiac arrest from exsanguination due to proximal (thigh,upper arm) penetrating wounds, subsequently died. This is hardly surprising. Cardiac arrest due to hypovolaemic shock in a trauma situation is extremely serious and the prognosis is very poor. They also suggested the possibility that some of the patients might have survived had tourniquets been applied at the correct limb sites in the field.

    Also, the study’s authors state that the the majority of civilian deaths from penetrating wounds of the limbs occur in those who have sustained those wounds to the proximal parts of the limbs (thoughs and upper arms). This is not the same as saying that most peiople who suffer such wounds, die.

    So, in other words, this study does not suggest, or attempt to suggest, that all those civilians injured in the limbs to the extent of becoming amputees, normally die.
    .

    Re. the whole case of these two brothers, though, yes, it grows curiouser and curiouser with each passing hour.

  88. Come on, Sheeple! Had the suspect been named Tray D. Ranged from Oddball, Alabama, would you all be looking for a conspiracy?

  89. If “Tray D. Ranged” and all the aunts and uncles seemed to regularly talk to the FBI or FSB, yes I would think that suspicious.

  90. Ben,

    In case you missed it up-thread what do you make of this tweet by the younger brother?

    https://twitter.com/J_tsar/status/290227971292282881

    His tweets tended to be stream of consciousness type stuff. He also tweeted about the bombing itself at https://twitter.com/J_tsar/status/323950071777472514 – ending with “stay safe people”. The “ain’t no love” bit is a “Jay Z” lyric. He added the “stay safe people.”

    Last year the only thing he seemed to be concerned about was whether the Boston Marathon was a safe place to smoke Marijuana. His opinion seemed to be that would get you busted.

  91. @ Giles,
    You ask:-
    “Come on, Sheeple! Had the suspect been named Tray D. Ranged from Oddball, Alabama, would you all be looking for a conspiracy?”
    However, surely and question is the reverse it is not the lone Amercian oddball – but – otherwise rational, bright and enterprising youngsters who the US government is trying to convince us, for no obvious or so-far evident suddenly become terrorists. You might then ask:-
    “Come on, Sheeple! Since the suspects have Chechen names and came to the United State, you are logically looking for credible connections and explanations because it is the US government releasing information inferring, if not directly alleging Muslim, Islamic terrorist connections – so you want to verify that there was such an Islamic conspiracy as official sources are suggesting –aren’t you?
    So far the official version of events surrounding the Boston bombing actually does leave more questions than credible answers.

  92. MLK’s killer was certainly most suspicious. Lots of acreage in print about that one. Think too of the JFK killing – now that is the most written-about political assasination in the history of the world. Thomas Hamilton/Dunblane, likewise – massive conspiracy theories about links to judges and goodness knows who. Nothing to do with Muslims, Giles. The killers – whichever versions one believes – in these cases were all all white guys and lots of people have linked the killings to govt agencies or similar cabals. So it seems that there is little evidence for what you are suggesting.

  93. CORRECTIONS:-
    @ Giles,
    You ask:-
    “Come on, Sheeple! Had the suspect been named Tray D. Ranged from Oddball, Alabama, would you all be looking for a conspiracy?”
    However, surely the question is the reverse. It is not the lone American oddball – but – otherwise rational, bright and enterprising youngsters who the US government is trying to convince us, for no obvious or so-far evident, suddenly become terrorists. You might then ask:-
    “Come on, Sheeple! Since the suspects have Chechen names and came to the United States, you are logically looking for credible connections and explanations because it is the US government releasing information inferring, if not directly alleging Muslim, Islamic terrorist connections – so you want to verify that there was such an Islamic conspiracy as official sources are suggesting –aren’t you?
    E.g. One brother’s trip back home for six (6) is being touted as not just a trip related to a family reunion, but it is being suggested that the visits relates to preparation for a terrorist attack.
    Well – was it so – or was it not? That is, at least, one of the questions.
    So far the official version of events surrounding the Boston bombing actually does leave more questions than credible answers.

  94. One suspects that the EDL itself may have links with the security services.

  95. @ GILES,

    So far as a lone American killer is concerned – one can ask logical questions about how the shooting took place. Having met and spoken, at lenght, to the ghost writer for James Earl Ray – this is what I had to say:-

    I MET A MAN –OR, WAS IT JAMES EARL RAY WHO KILLED DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING?

    I met a man. His name was Tupper Saussy. He happened to have been the ghost writer for a book by James Earl Ray, entitled “ Tennessee Waltz” published in 1987. The book gives Ray’s account of the events to state that he did not kill Dr. King.

    Saussy’s view, in his long conversations with me, was that James Earl Ray was not Dr. King’s murderer and he explained to me in considerable detail why Ray was not the killer, then gave me a copy of the book which I then read.

    On Thursday, the 3rd April, 2008, I watched a CNN special on the eve of the anniversary of Dr. King’s assassination. The book came back to mind and I asked myself on conclusion of the CNN special – why is CNN trying to confuse the public?

    Before I return to the book’s contents, I would invite the reader to look at the physical location at the Lorraine Motel, where Dr. King was shot, and consider the photographs of the positioning of surrounding buildings, the trajectory of the bullet, and the direction that the witnesses present were all pointing to when the single shot rang out that killed Dr. King. The web site is worth a visit and it is at :-(http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE1/overlooked.html).

    The reasoning at the web site is sound, the pictures are clear and the conclusions can logically be drawn.

    Back to the book. Read Ray’s own story for yourself and draw your own conclusions. The points I would leave you with are these:-

    A. Why would the witnesses present all be pointing in the direction they heard the shot come from, and CNN be leading the unsuspecting public in 2008 towards some alternative belief that they were pointing elsewhere to a window at a rooming house across the street, from where Ray is supposed to have shot Dr. King?
    B. Is there anything to be made of Ray’s reference to an operative or handler called “Raoul”, and if Ray was this perfect sniper shot who assassinated Dr. King – did he simply conveniently drop all his evidence outside the doorway of the rooming house, to link him to the crime?
    C. If, it was Ray’s doing from reference to B above – then why don’t the test bullets fired from the weapon attributed to Ray not ballistically match the bullet taken from Dr. King – so who did fire the weapon that killed Dr. King?

    Conclusion

    A single person cannot be in two places at the same time. There are two (2) vantage points for the location of the sniper who did the shooting (1) a window from the rooming house and (2) the Gattis penthouse ( to which Andrew Young and all other witnesses are pointing at the time of the shooting).

    Again, carefully review the photographic evidence at the web site:- (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE1/overlooked.html).

    Now – you decide – who killed Dr. Martin Luther King?

    When the state is confronted with legitimate challenges against its destructive polices:-

    “…I knew that I could not ever again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greater purveyor of violence in the world: my own government.” Martin Luther King in his “Beyond Vietnam” 1967 speech.
    it has the power to destroy those who dare speak truth to power. The agents of the government of the United States of America did first attempt to destroy the reputation of Dr. Martin Luther, and used its FBI’s COINTELPRO program to try by criminal means to destroy the credence of those who fought for and sought equal rights and justice. When that failed – well – simply stated, the agents of the state just murdered Dr. King.
    Courtenay Barnett – 4th April, 2008

  96. Im fed up suspending my disbelief of news like this. Ive not got conspiracy theorism! Its not my job to figure out conspiracy, its not one of my talents, but ive got a functioning bullshit detector.

    Undisturbed cafe tables, managed media releasing incompatible statements, generic ‘nothing to see hear’ blogophilic activists amongst sound amature investigations.

    I dont need to know the details, the bullshit is everywhere, this latest incident is just the latest weirdspun microcosm of it.

  97. Giles
    22 Apr, 2013 – 7:56 pm

    “Just out of interest, were the accused to have been white, far-right extremists, would there have been the same effort put into finding a conspiracy here?”

    Please explain.

  98. @ Doug,

    Subject to what Giles actually says in reply, he seems to be saying the following:-

    re: “…were the accused to have been white, far-right extremists…”

    A. If White and far-right – just a couple of disgruntled White people angry with their govennment.
    B. Since not White far-rigth, but having Chechen ancestry, there is something assumed to be more sinister.
    C. Enter the “conspiracy theorists” with their “conspiracy theories”.

    I have responded to Giles above; but, this is what I glean he is saying or aiming at.

    Over to you Giles…????

  99. Courtenay, that’s fascinating, about your contact with the ghost writer. Yes, many people think the state killed MLK. The FBI certainly later overtly killed most of the Black Panther and American Indian Movement leaders.

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