Pandering to Racism

by craig on June 26, 2013 1:52 pm in Uncategorized

Here in Ghana people are stunned by the announcement that a bond of £3,000 will have to be submitted by visa applicants to the UK, redeemable on return.

It is unpleasant for a nation to be singled out as comprised of particularly untrustworthy individuals against whom special measures are needed.  Theresa May appears quite deliberately to be singling out countries whose citizens are normally black or brown – India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Ghana and Nigeria.  They are all citizens with extremely close ties to the UK.  For example, all of those countries supplied large numbers of men to British armed forces in two World Wars; with little resulting gratitude.

The true level of Britain’s regard for the Commonwealth is disclosed in all its arrogance; citizenship of the Commonwealth countries with the longest link to the UK will become a positive disadvantage in visa application.  Israeli settlers living in Occupied Palestine on the West Bank, incidentally, will still be allowed to enter the UK without any visa at all, despite membership of neither Commonwealth nor EU.  Paradoxical, isn’t it?

The measure shows the arrogant British disdain for these countries – of which India pre-eminently but also Ghana are fast growing and important trading partners.  Undoubtedly Ghana will retaliate with measures which hurt British businesses; many of my good friends are senior Ghanaian politicians, and they are all furious.  The rhetoric the British employ about transformation from colonial status to a modern partnership of equals is exposed for the tissue of lies it has always been.  This is a straightforward racist measure, aimed at securing the racist vote to the Tories.

Not does it make any sense.  If you are intending to enter the UK under false pretences, and have the intent illegally to settle and start a new life there, then £3,000 is scarcely a deterrent given the substantial economic gains you intend to make over the long period you intend to stay.  It will rather seem a good investment; people will find the money.  The people it will deter are those who never intended to overstay.  The extra cash upfront,  to the businessman for a business trip, for the student coming to study, for the tourist will drive them to go elsewhere, to the UK’s net loss.

More cruelly it will deter decent middle class people from coming to see grandchildren in the holidays, from going to the niece’s wedding,  from going to graduation.  Those things will become the prerogative of the wealthy, those with plenty of cash to spare.

This does nothing to deter illegal immigration.  It merely demonstrates populist racism, demonstrates contempt for some of the UK’s best-disposed friends, and demonstrates that the government thinks the right to travel is only for the rich.  It is contemptible.

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932 Comments

  1. Whoops, sorry, missed that request! Apologies.

  2. Off topic (the topic being our pet troll) –

    http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2012/10/09/theresa-may-speech-in-full

    Can’t say we weren’t warned, anyway. (you may need to locate the sick bag before reading the speech. Contains hypocrisy, double standards, inconsistency, manufactured on premises which certainly contain nuts))

  3. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:12 am

    Life Get’s Tedious, Don’t It? Well it does here sometimes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HlEdMg7d_o

    :)

    ~~~

  4. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version) 27 Jun, 2013 – 11:22 pm
    “I was joking about the Ensure”

    I did think you were joking mate and my response was also written with a smile. The nuance of humour is easily lost on the interweb.

  5. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:23 am

    Imagine how they feel. Shame on you Welby! Note the Yad Vashem visit. He had time in his schedule for that.

    Palestinian Christians missed out on archbishop of Canterbury’s tour
    Christian communities disappointed Justin Welby did not visit them during first trip to Holy Land since taking office

    Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem

    The Guardian, Thursday 27 June 2013 18.09 BST
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/27/palestinian-christians-acrchbishop-canterbury

    [Mod: fixed typo]

  6. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:34 am

    UK adds another drone to its arsenal

    By Chris Cole on 21/06/2013

    The UK Ministry of Defence confirmed that it has signed a £30 million deal with Boeing subsidiary Insitu for the ScanEagle drone.

    ScanEagle is an unarmed surveillance drone that is to be used in a maritime role by the Royal Navy. This latest contract makes the sixth type of unmanned drone that UK forces have in their arsenal with all three services – army, air force and navy – now operating unmanned drones.

    MoD minister Philip Dunne said that the “continued investment in intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance systems is essential to keeping our Armed Forces up-to-date with the latest capabilities.” However the ScanEagle is not being bought, rather it is being rented in a similar way that the UK is leasing the Israeli Hermes 450 drone for use in Afghanistan.

    The contact, which lasts up until 2015, is for a “contractor-owned contractor-operated service” with civilian contractors operating the ScanEagle from onboard ship.

    The ScanEagle is launched from catapult, has a range of around 100km and can stay aloft for up to 24 hours. Below is a video of ScanEagle in operation with the Dutch Navy

    /..
    http://dronewars.net/2013/06/21/uk-adds-another-drone-to-its-arsenal/

  7. Fedup 27 Jun, 2013 – 11:09 pm

    Thanks for the landdestroyer pussy riot link. I (am allegedly working so) read it quickly and the article seems to merely imply the loosest of possible connections between the collective and other, US funded, opposition elements. Hardly damning.

    I think they rock.

    Yes I do think it is wrong to lock up racists for not hiding their racism. If indeed that was your point. Not entirely sure.

  8. From Ms. May’s speech, thanks Komodo, its O/T
    “Taxes cut for people who do the right thing, go out to work, and earn a modest wage.”

    Modest wage seems to be the catch word here, not the going out to work.
    But this is the reality, companies that make millions in profits for the UK are stifled by George Osborne’s banker mates. This is a tragic story of success.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/business/lowestoft_support_firm_s_sale_seals_growth_1_2253950

  9. Flaming June 28 Jun, 2013 – 9:34 am
    “…with civilian contractors operating the ScanEagle from onboard ship.”

    The return of privateering!

  10. Appreciate the ScanEagle link Mary – Keep it up!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=OM4ub4H2El4#at=15

  11. As you say Craig to single out a nation as Ghana is unpleastant and to be regarded as un trustworthy is stereotypicaly retarded yet we do suffer and are reminded daily of stereotypical thoughts and actions daily and occasionly are reminded how retarted we are.

    We are systamatical evolved so to deny some all forms cognitive bias towardas others may be unwise.

    To be sure of…..?presently trust no one including ones’ self use instincts, and try friendly face-ism. But presently everyone has enough reason to be unhappy.

    So as a rule try to help others who seem less fortunate.

  12. UK economic growth is clearly down at at a real 0.7%

    Clearly the poor are going to be hit harder as a continuation of the mass experiment in human despair, which this coalition government has cheated to describe as an economic policy. It is ideologically driven and we see economics of the madhouse. And it is done with the objective of affecting the transference of wealth from the poor to the rich under the pretext of an economic crisis – not reason, it’s a pre-text. The economic crisis which hit this country in 2007 was their economic 9/11.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/tag/uk-austerity

  13. @ Nevermind –

    “The final straw came when the bank that runs our account reduced our overdraft level just after we had posted a record annual profit of more than £1m.”

    And maybe it runs the Turner Group’s account too, and just maybe that deal had a little help. Sharks. Used to be they’d only lend you an umbrella when the sun was shining…now they don’t lend umbrellas at all.

  14. “Dreoilin The link to the nasty Tara McKelvey piece ref Edward Snowden just worked for me.”

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/pandering-to-racism/#comment-415094

    “Mod: link fixed, thanks Dreoilin”

    Not sure who’s clicking on what now, Mary, but if it’s working that’s good.

  15. I think you are right Komodo, that was the preferred method of two of Germany’s largest car producers to get rid of the up and coming modern Borgward in the 1950’s, a very old trick.

    If a bank is approached by a large customer, who just happen to mention pulling out of said bank, unless soandso are not getting anymore credits, then the bank will think twice before ignoring such warning.

  16. UK economic growth is clearly down at at a real 0.7%

    The art (used advisedly) of economics is so open to interpretations, is it not?

    less than 1 percent growth used to be classed as a recession, alas at these times of economic depression (almighty and on going recession) less than one percent growth is considered an achievement that ought to be celebrated! Public services have been withdrawn, pensions are in the process of getting withdrawn, the social safety nets removed, whilst the interests to be paid on the monies borrowed to help the banksters to stay afloat regardless of the “moral hazard” complications, thereof.

    Socialism is good for the rich, and really, really, exceedingly bad for the poor, is the message getting pounded home day and night. The disconnected chancellor verily believes; the eating of a “ten pounds” hamburger is a sign of sacrificing the umpteen quids sitty down dinner, that ought to be celebrated by “we the people” for being so fortunate to have such a diligent chancellor at the helm. Alas poor dickhead, has little clue that “ten pounds” is the sum total of the money that is left for most of the poor to live on for the duration of a week.

    The current state of communication between the governed and the governors is akin to the dialogue of; deaf, dumb and blind, none can see, hear, or understand the plight of the poor, and the jobless who are not “lazy malingerers” but they have no jobs, because there are no jobs to get. 0.7 percent growth is made only possible because we the people are paying the interests on the loans that were borrowed on behalf of the we the people to give to the rich, so that they would not get to be poor, just like us poor, who have always been poor.

  17. Another O/T bit of good news; the guy who invented the business model subsequently honed to perfection by Trafigura & Xstrata croaked earlier this week-

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/10144393/Marc-Rich.html

  18. Mrs May stood with an arm on Mrs Lawrence’s shoulder. Hypocrisy.

    and look at them all in April at a Memorial Service for her son who not lies in a grave in Jamaica away from the stench of Whitehall.

    https://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Teresa+May+Memorial+Anniversary+Service+Stephen+g9vqJAqzcypx.jpg

  19. Don’t know what’s the matter with me today.

    ….who NOW lies in a grave…..

  20. It gets better by the minute:

    US Army blocks personnel’s access to Guardian’s website

    Freedom, Freedom, Freedom, hey:

    In an email to the Herald, Gordon Van Vleet, an Arizona-based spokesman for the Army Network Enterprise Technology Command (NETCOM), said that the U.S. Army is filtering “some access to press coverage and online content about the NSA leaks.”

    “We make every effort to balance the need to preserve information access with operational security,” Van Vleet wrote.

    “There are strict policies and directives in place regarding protecting and handling classified information,” he added.

    Snowden asked to brief Russian parliament on US espionage

    “We invite Edward Snowden to work with us and hope that as soon as he settles his legal status, he will collaborate with our working group and provide us with proof of US intelligence agencies’ access to the servers of Internet firms,” Russia’s Ria Novosti news agency quoted Senator Ruslan Gattarov as saying on Thursday.

    Dunchu just love the smell of Freedom in the morning?

  21. Agent Cameron resembles B.Liar more and more every day. SamCam is a deserted wife these days and he must see little of his children. When he is older, he will realize that he has missed out by giving his political career priority.

    If it’s Friday, it must be Brussels.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-to-push-for-cuts-to-eu-red-tape-at-brussels-summit-as-leaders-pledge-to-tackle-youth-unemployment-8677867.html

    Then it’s Kazakhstan. Take note P Andrew.

    David Cameron urged to raise human rights concerns on Kazakhstan trip
    Human Rights Watch says it is very concerned about deteriorating situation in oil-rich republic
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/28/david-cameron-human-rights-kazakhstan

    When he is finally given the order of the boot, what will life be like for him? Will anyone pay to hear him speak? Probably not. He will find cushy niches in the City if he does not have them already by proxy.

    Tempus fugit Dave!

    ~~~

    The Brooks/Coulson pair have failed in their appeal to have prosecutions dropped.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/28/rebekah-brooks-andy-coulson-phone-hacking

  22. Jon 9.27pm last night.

    No problem,your points noted..

    Im totally cool with the 3 deleted posts-i understand the reasons.

    I also note your advises inre: not rising to the bait-and bait it most surely is-I generally don’t but certain subjects,and the use of those subjects as point scoring,really touch a nerve hence my flare up.

    Apologies and normal service shall be resumed.

    Cheers.

  23. My family and friends in the Ukraine have never in 22 years been able to obtain UK visas. There are two ways it can be done – demonstrate that you have a pukka high-flying career or a large fortune or both in the Ukraine (reasons to go back), or demonstrate affluence by paying for a tourist holiday package that includes visa. Charging a large bond just streamlines the process (of discrimination) and makes it more efficient. Makes the process less corruptible, too.

  24. @ Jives.
    I’m going to ask J** to delete your post. Very bad for the reputation, and it makes a nonsense of all the cash I’ve paid the branding consultancy.

    “‘Komodo dragons are actually very clean animals.

    ‘After they are done feeding, they will spend 10 to 15 minutes lip-licking and rubbing their head in the leaves to clean their mouth.

    ‘The inside of their mouth is also kept extremely clean by the tongue.”

    I’ll never live it down.

  25. Flaming Jane @ 28 Jun, 2013 – 8:01 am re your comment – “Henry VIII Would Be a Modern Day Psychopath”

    An interesting comment and article. Though I don’t know if I would agree, or even if there is enough information to reach a conclusion. A long time ago I got to know an extraordinarily wealthy Iranian in the days of the Shah. I’ll never forget a conversation we had where he made the comment that the rich, and I am talking about the super-rich, shouldn’t pay taxes because they had so many responsibilities. His view was that taxes should be borne solely by peasants since they had nothing to worry about (presumable since they had nothing) and had a much easier life that the rich who had all their wealth to worry about. I thought he was joking, but he wasn’t. Certainly when the Iranian revolution came about, I understood the why of it, though not the form it took.

    Since then I have met a number of people who could be classified as super-rich and, particularly where their money was inherited, and where they are not particularly intelligent, they all share certain characteristics – arrogance, a disbelief in equality of law, a complete lack of ethics, a belief that the rest of us owe them a living and that rules don’t apply to them (and the rules don’t, since the super-rich never pay the same rates of taxes as the rest of us do). The truth is very simple – they are different. They have been flattered by “yes-men” and courtiers all their life, they have never had to earn anything (and wouldn’t know how), they are spoilt rotten. They come to believe that they are entitled to anything they want since everybody panders to their wishes, and that those who oppose them need to be punished. Of course the super-rich have learnt not to publicise these beliefs and indeed to hire spin doctors to present them as wonderful people, giving all the time to charity.

    Henry 8th was unique in that the murder of his wife’s was judicial and open; he is not the first super-rich man to murder his ladies, and he isn’t the last either. The super-rich never had a chance to be normal. By super-rich I don’t mean a few tens of millions – I mean billions. When they throw their weight around, like Henry 8th, they do enormous damage to society and democracy. This is a serious problem, particularly today, when the rich seem to be exercising more and more political power, particularly in partnership with the secret security services. The problem is not so much that they are born psychopaths, but that the money makes them act as if they had been born psychopaths. The first Dollar Billionaire, Andrew Carnegie, said that he who dies rich, dies disgraced – and he was right. It’s time that this was remedied by law and the super-rich taxed back into being just merely rich.

  26. Charging a large bond just streamlines the process (of discrimination) and makes it more efficient. Makes the process less corruptible, too.

    Evidently there is a misunderstanding here. The bond does not equate to an automatic granting of a visa! The bond is an addition to the current controls/restrictions over issuance of the visa.

    =======

    Komodo also your species seems to have cracked the Blood Thinners chemical make up too. Currently big Pharma is busy analyzing the saliva for its properties. Soon you may find replicas of yourself in a stuffed toy departments of the big stores, at this rate.

    ========

    Anyone heard about the South African whites beating a hasty retreat out of the Alamo? (fearing that death of Mandela will unleash a huge wave of violence)

  27. Khazakstan/Cameron…

    He was there last year too. What this link –

    http://www.eurodialogue.org/Kazakhstan-UK-Sign-Accord-on-Transit-to-Afghanstan

    doesn’t make very clear is that the agreement is to transit military kit OUT of Afghanistan as we leave. Other options include burning it, blowing it up, and leaving it for the Taliban to use in restoring the natural imbalance of the place.

    Interesting piece in the Guardian yesterday suggested that Afghanistan is in fact an Indian-Pakistan proxy war (Pashtun vs Tajik, etc) and nothing to do with us at all.A defensible p.o.v.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/26/nato-taliban-india-pakistan

  28. I have spent all week and not listened to any news.

    Just caught the 3pm news on Classic fm.

    Man jailed for raping pensioner, Brady is a nutter and something else….

    Now I know why I avoided the news.

  29. Soon you may find replicas of yourself in a stuffed toy departments of the big stores, at this rate.

    It’s about time someone did something about those bloody meerkats, anyway.

  30. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 3:09 pm

    Snowdens options are even more limited.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/28/19175108-no-one-wants-this-fight-ecuadoreans-divided-over-snowden-asylum?lite

    “Public opinion in Ecuador runs hot and cold on whether the country should extend political asylum to Snowden. While some admire their president for trying to stick it to the United States, others fear economic fallout if Snowden settles in Ecuador.

    One Ecuadorean newspaper this week called the leaker a “hot potato,” while another labeled him “a spy.”

  31. Glenn Greenwald wrote a piece in The Grauniad the other day warning that the smear jobs would be coming at him…and sure enuff here’s the Daily Fail’s attempt…but great to see so many commentators wise to the action and mocking the smear and pathetic excuse for journalism.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2350153/Journalist-helped-Edward-Snowden-expose-NSA-scandal-previously-sued-business-partner-running-Hairy-Jocks-porn-business.html

  32. Former 2nd highest US General James Cartwright under investigation over the Stuxnet leaks.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/28/general-cartwright-investigated-stuxnet-leak

  33. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 3:16 pm

    ‘The inside of their mouth is also kept extremely clean by the tongue.”

    Whose? I think it’s important to know.

  34. Passerby –
    Intriguing question re. SA whites, there.

    What seems to be going on is that barking neocons both in SA and the US are pumping up the hysteria, but the intention is obscure. This site may be more reliable than the NRA fundies who seem to be at the bottom of the stories, but I guarantee nothing:

    http://www.africacheck.org/reports/are-white-afrikaners-really-being-killed-like-flies/

  35. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 3:17 pm

    Jives; Just read that story. Equal treatment under the law must be the public relations message.

  36. Komodoettes very rarely insist on ‘no tongues’, Ben, and I pity you anthropoids whose lingual members are undivided.

    Smugly,
    K.

  37. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 3:25 pm

    Infiltration into Glastonbury. How many of those attending will have a clue about the Occupation, al Naqba and the ongoing oppression. Any protests likely?

    They are so on the defensive that they always have to crow.

    Israeli acts geared up for Glastonbury
    Marcus Dysch, June 27, 201
    Jewish Chronicle

    A collective, one of four Israeli acts playing at Glastonbury this weekend

    Four Israeli groups will perform at Glastonbury this weekend, becoming the first musical acts from the country to appear at the festival.

    A collective, Saz, Ester Rada and 3421 are due to play 10 separate gigs during the five-day event.

    Former JC reporter-turned-Brit-Award-nominee Jessie Ware will also be singing.

    She is due to appear on the John Peel Stage on Sunday afternoon. American-Jewish sister trio Haim are among the headline acts.

    Jeremy Hulsh, chief executive of Tel Aviv-based organisation Oleh! Records, helped arrange the deal for the Israeli acts to appear at the festival.

    He said: “Everyone is really excited. This is a huge first and it is great for the Israeli music scene to have an influence on Glastonbury.

    “The organisers have been really helpful and have given us so many stages to perform on.”

    The busiest Israeli act will be soul singer Ester Rada — she is due to perform on four different stages.

    As a warm-up for Glastonbury, all the groups played at the Tune In Tel Aviv concert in Islington, north London, this week.

    http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/109030/israeli-acts-geared-glastonbury

  38. Flaming June,

    Yes indeed,with the notable exception of Mark Steel last night’s Question Time was full of nauseatingly acquiescent droids.

    Some of the camera shots of the audience reactions were definitely pre-planeed.The “noddy” choreography.Sickening and a total sham.

    Except Mark Steel the reaction over the Snowden and surveillance question was genuinely pathetic yet terrifying.

    These cowardly people are the type who would’ve thanked the SS guards who came to disappear them.

  39. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 3:36 pm

    @ Macky re. the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights
    ______________

    Towards the beginning of this thread you asserted that the UK’s proposed £3000 bond requirement for visitors from a certain number of countries was “contra” the provisions of the UN’s 1948 Universal Declaration of Human rights.

    I was rather puzzled by this claim of yours as it didn’t seem to correspond to my recollection of the Declaration’s provisions. My puzzlement was all the greater because Craig, who knows something about international law, hadn’t mentioned this aspect of the matter in his introductory post, or subsequently.

    As you seem reluctant, in your last post on the matter (28 Jine, 00h25) to provide the article(s) of the Declaration which the UK’s proposed action would be violating, I thought I’d assist you by re-reading the Declaration myself and reporting back.

    Well, you’ll be interested to hear that there is nothing in the text of the Declaration which would lend substance to your assertion.

    The Declaration lays down a long list of rights which states should make available, on a non-discrimatory basis, to their citizens and others present in their territory. There are no trans-national rights present in the Declaration and more specifically, no trans-national rights in respect of migration whether permanent or temporary (eg, visits for personal reasons, study, etc). For most of the rights mentioned in the Declaration there is no need to specify the purely teritorial application (eg, it is obvious that state A cannot guarantee the right to education in state B), but in the one case where there might be possible ambiguity – freedom of movement – the article in question (Art 13a)says :

    “Eeveryone has the right to freedom of movement and residence WITHIN THE BORDERS OF EACH STATE” (emphasis added).

    So, dear Macky, your assertion was incorrect. The UK’s proposed measures are not in violation of the Universal Declaration.
    _________

    As a sort of conclusion to this ‘discussion’ :

    To err is only human and therefore I don’t expect you to apologise or even to admit publicly that your assertion was incorrect. But I would suggest for the future thaat you should perhaps check more carefully the accuracy of what you intend to post on the blog. There are sufficient valid reasons for contesting the UK’s proposed measures without having to manufacture spurious ones.

  40. Jives –Former 2nd highest US General James Cartwright under investigation over the Stuxnet leaks.

    Just shooting the messenger, I think.

    This may be of interest:

    http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5968088

    Congress seems to have no concerns whatever about the legality of Stuxnet, or its obviously provocative intention. What bothers them is that the US was found out.

  41. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 4:05 pm

    More on Marc Rich, aka Marcus Reich, who has died. OldMark put up a Torygraph link earlier.

    Weekend Edition June 28-30, 2013

    Fixers Indicated That Hillary Was a Key Player in the Marc Rich Pardon Deal
    The Clintons and the Rich Women

    by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/28/the-clintons-and-the-rich-women/

    Jeffery St Clair, the author is one of the Counterpunch co-editors.

  42. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 4:14 pm

    Planted ?????

    Whistleblower Snowden ‘May Return To The US’

    Edward Snowden’s father fears his son is being manipulated by others, including WikiLeaks, and may return under certain terms.

    2:14pm UK, Friday 28 June 2013

    Banner in support of Edward Snowden
    Edward Snowden is said to still be in the transit area of Moscow airport

    Edward Snowden’s father has said he is reasonably confident the whistleblower will return to the US if certain conditions are met.

    In an interview with NBC, Mr Snowden’s father also said he plans to make that point in a letter to US Attorney General Eric Holder later today.

    Those conditions could include not detaining Mr Snowden before trial, NBC reported.

    In the interview, Mr Snowden’s father also expressed fears his son is being manipulated by others, including WikiLeaks.

    /..
    http://news.sky.com/story/1109235/whistleblower-snowden-may-return-to-the-us

  43. Ben,

    “Equal treatment under the law must be the public relations message.”

    Indeed.Perish the thought equal treatment under the law was an actualite…

  44. There is astory in the Independent , about the stabbing of a young lad on his holidays in turkey. The comments section, is filled by the comments of an overtly racist thing, pouring its wit and hateful bile without any let or hinderance. This is the kind of incitement to racial hatred that is tolerated, in the name of “free speech”, and “freedom of expression”.

    Are you insane – have you got your eyes and ears wrapped in thick wool?

    Of course it is everything to do with MUSLIMS and their perverted backward stupid cretinous belief system – do your research and stop behaving like a Dhimmi!

    Idiots.

    #
    #
    Dhimmi cretin is what you are if you do not know that these “attacks” are ALL related to the islamo-fascist ideology of HATE!

    Go do the research – and stop being a Dhimmi
    #
    #
    Don’t listen to pelirrojo – either a Dhimmi cretin or a Islamo-fascist infiltrator sent to use deceptions to defend the evil of Islam
    #
    #
    They are all Muslims – they will not say so – but use deception and trickery to plough seeds of doubt and confusion – its all in the teachings of the Koran! …..
    #
    #
    …..English is a description of the ethnic group which inhabits England – and cannot be adopted as an identity for none white
    #
    #
    You don’t know what you are talking about – and if you do not know what our culture is and has always been, then you are not British and have no right to comment on OUR culture – do you understand?

    Note the among the labels: “dhimmi” that is getting used akin to a another racial slur “goy” and the connotations thereof. Whilst masquerading as an “Englishmen”.

    As we all know our run of the mill “bigoted thugs and morons” are hardly pressed to string three words together. To find a constant torrent of racial abuse post on the comments sections, that is even more horrific upon inspecting the profile of this bigot, it clearly points to a hasbara operative* bent on incitement to hatred and shouting down any opinion that is contrary to its perceived mission statement.

    Fact is why on Earth is the independent tolerating such an egregious hateful conduct, and would it have tolerated any such a nonsense if the words; “Muslim” were to be replaced by “Jew”, and “Islam” replaced with “Judaism”?

    * the hateful mongrel goes on record: “Islam is – it is the absolute negation of both Judaism and Christianity -” ergo the clean tracks of a hasbara warrior in full flow.

    ======

    Thanks Komodo for Africa Check link.

  45. Glastonbury before the total corporate takeover

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3gqy93jCK0

  46. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 4:27 pm

    June; He may have been in communication with his father, but I listened to the interview and he sounds mostly speculative. I think he’s negotiating with the Feds to pave a way for his son to surrender establishing terms kind of like a hostage negotiator.

  47. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 5:10 pm

  48. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 5:12 pm

    Thanks for that Ben Franklin. Could not understand the smear on Wikileaks. Just hope he doesn’t end up like Bradley Manning.

  49. Nice sly misrepresentation dear Clown, but what I actually wrote was;

    “to single out people from only certain countries is basic racial profiling, essentially inherent discrimination, and contra to the principle of universal human rights and freedoms, which is what we as a country agreed to abide by when we voted for adoption of “The Universal Declaration” at the UN”

    Note the words “contra to the principle”, which means this can be interpreted as “contra to the spirit of universal human rights and freedoms, which is what we as a country agreed to abide by”, but which cannot be interpreted as “contra to the provisions of the UN’s 1948 Universal Declaration of Human rights; two complete & different things, as you well know.

    Quite a poor attempt really, surely you can do better stitch-ups !

    Anyhow I’m glad that my comment occupied some of your time & effort, in conducting your red-herring “research”, and I wonder if you came across the “Baiai Case”, which the Home Office lost at the Court of Appeal, being told that it needed to examine each application on its own merits rather than a wholesale approach which carries the real risk of unfairness and injustice, this was iro its requirement that all foreign nationals who were subject to immigration control, be compelled to obtain Home Office permission before marrying. I think if this Bond scheme ever gets implemented, it will go exactly the same way.

    Now how about a bit of reciprocation iro that KOWN Post ?

  50. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 5:16 pm

    @ Flaming June (16h05)

    “More on Marc Rich, aka Marcus Reich, who has died.”
    _______________

    Yes, he’s ‘aka Marcus Reich’ especially to those who find it relevant to remind people that he is/was Jewish.

  51. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 5:25 pm

    Russia Today have been showing this video of further beheadings of Assad supporters by the rebels yesterday. One of the victims was a Christian bishop. The beheadings were carried out in the sight of women and children.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ead_1372329728

  52. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 5:39 pm

    The Medialens editors have published this alert today.

    http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/alerts-2013/737-snowden-surveillance-and-the-secret-state.html

    Some responses.

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1372431642.html

    ~~~

    Separately, Garton Ash on GCHQ and NSA. He can’t seem to make up his mind whether surveillance should be carried out by the state or by commercially interested companies. We are not a totalitarian state apparently.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/27/big-brother-public-private-partnership-nsa?commentpage=1

    His pathway
    Spectator>Independent>Guardian

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Garton_Ash

  53. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 5:40 pm

    @ Macky

    Just admit you messed up and stop being so daft.

    Your attempted justification amounts to saying that you can at the same time violate the principles of something but not violate the provisions which are there precisely to give concrete expression and effect to those principles.

    One a more concrete level, it also implies that immigration law and measures designed to ensure that that law is upheld effectively (which is what we’re talking about here) are against the principle or the “spirit” of human rights. In which case, by the way, every state on earth must be in violation of that principle or ‘spirit’, since there is no state which does not have its body of immigration law and measures designed to uphold that law.


  54. Flaming June
    28 Jun, 2013 – 3:25 pm
    Infiltration into Glastonbury. How many of those attending will have a clue about the Occupation, al Naqba and the ongoing oppression?”

    What a strange way of judging other human beings going out to have fun and enjoy themselves. Next they’ll have to pass exams to get tickets, while the Self-Righteous One fights at her keyboard saving all of humanity including us!

    Amazing!

  55. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 5:46 pm

    Post at 17h15

    “Russia Today have been showing this video of further beheadings of Assad supporters by the rebels yesterday.”
    ____________

    I wonder if the poster concerned believes everything put out by Russia Today.

    If ‘yes’, then my condolences. If ‘no’, what is the reason for believing this particular bit of news but not others?

    NB – Russia Today supports President Assad the Son, I’ve been told.

  56. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 5:52 pm

    @ Villager (17h41)

    “Infiltration into Glastonbury. How many of those attending will have a clue about the Occupation, al Naqba and the ongoing oppression?”
    ________________

    Quite agree that this is a somewhat bizarre post. If I didn’t know who posted it I’d say the poster was a little obsessional.

    The solution to making sure that the attendees do leave what I hope will be a very enjoyable festival in full knowledge of the Occupation, al Naqba and the ongoing oppression would, I suggest, consist in the poster and as many good people as he or she can find going along to the venue armed with posters, megaphones and leaflets in sufficient number to meet the likely demand. No violence though, please, because the nasty police might crack open their skulls (it does happen, you know!)

  57. Flaming June,

    Garton-Ash has been bestest of buddies with the spooks for many a year.He does their bidding albeit a tad more subtly than some.

  58. Ignore it.You’d need an aqualung and for its 2nd last sentence anyway-whatever the garble means.

  59. Unionist propaganda frenzy is stepped up in Scotland as Daily Mail is given away in selected areas of the country with purchases of local-newspapers belonging to local-newspaper monopoly (and financially stricken) Johnston Press of ‘Scotsman’ infamy. Needless to say the free ‘Jockified’ edition of the Mail is packed with preposterous scaremongering concerning Independence and character assassination of Scottish National Party figures. The people aren’t buying it, literally.

    Passerby, I noted your post (4:19pm) on the Independent’s comments section which is externalised to the third-party shadowy outfit Disqus. Articles or comments bearing on Palestine, the Israheil conundrum or opportunities to demonise Muslims seemed to be hotlined to Hasbara Towers wherever Disqus is found, and rapid reaction, on-message comments abound.

  60. “Your attempted justification amounts to saying that you can at the same time violate the principles of something but not violate the provisions which are there precisely to give concrete expression and effect to those principles.”

    Of course you can ! Commonly known by the term “lip-service”, especially iro the Law, surely you’ve hear of it?! You can violate a principle you claim to believe in, oh, let’s say non-discrimination on race or religion, yet refuse to employ certain people on a variety of dishonest excuses.

    “since there is no state which does not have its body of immigration law and measures designed to uphold that law.”

    Law is based on all human beings have fundamental rights and freedoms, and EQUALITY in respect of the application of the Law; if an immigration policy uses blanket discrimination against certain groups but not others, then those certain groups are NOT be treated EQUALLY.

    All pretty basic stuff, especially for somebody of your self-acclaimed “intellectual fire-power” !!

  61. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 6:18 pm

    @ Jives

    “You’d need an aqualung and for its 2nd last sentence anyway”
    ____________

    Sound as if you need to exercise a little more, Jives. It’s very good for you and the Revolution, when it comes, will need people in top physical form.

  62. BOOM!

    Macky with a perfectly timed volley takes the point and eases home in a straight sets win.

  63. Is name-calling Clown in the spirit of what the moderator has has been propounding here?

    Be interesting to see how many people voice their observations. Note no rising to the bait by the “Troll” only robust debate.

    Wait till he comes up against Fred next time around.

    OBJECTIVITY IS GOOD, EVEN PARAMOUNT!

    NATURE IS A MARVEL DESPITE THE JUVENILES!

  64. Am back from Accra folks. Knackered, but home in Ramsgate.

  65. “Yes, he’s ‘aka Marcus Reich’ especially to those who find it relevant to remind people that he is/was Jewish.”

    … which does get very tiresome.
    Anyway, anyone who wanted to look up Wikipedia, would get chapter and verse on his background. It’s no secret.

  66. Let us know how your heel is, Craig?

  67. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 6:34 pm

    @ Macky

    “if an immigration policy uses blanket discrimination against certain groups but not others, then those certain groups are NOT be treated EQUALLY.”
    ______________

    In which case, Macky, you would presumably wish to abolish all visa requirements by all states on the grounds that some entrants are required to have a visa and others aren’t?

    You really don’t seem to be listening, do you. Never mind.

  68. Dreoilin,

    Awful! Thanks.

  69. Welcome home Craig.

    And now,for heaven’s sake,put yer feet up for a well deserved break!

  70. I’m sorry to hear that Craig. As Jives said, you probably need a good rest. I’m assuming you have a laptop (which I shouldn’t of course …) but the advantage is that it can be used with one’s feet up on the bed.

    Beannacht ort agus ar do chos!

  71. “Sound as if you need to exercise a little more, Jives. It’s very good for you and the Revolution, when it comes, will need people in top physical form.”

    LOFL! They say part of what makes jokes funny is the ring of truth! (Not a jibe at Jives, just saying)

    Btw Habby it wasn’t just the second sentence. He managed to make all his posts so convoluted as to render them completely unintelligible. I do wonder though why he’s wasting time here instead of taking it to litigation…..or at least starting a petition. One thing’s for sure, given my sharp detective skills, he’s definitely not a lawyer.

    As hard-hitting the new proposal is, it not against the law.

    IF YOU THINK ITS ONLY THE LAW THAT IS AN ASS, THINK AGAIN!

  72. “In which case, Macky, you would presumably wish to abolish all visa requirements by all states on the grounds that some entrants are required to have a visa and others aren’t?”

    How does that follow ?! I thought we were discussing a proposed discriminatory FINANCIAL obstacle to be selectively applied to some people but not others; rather different to the criteria used to decide normal visa requirements; the cash-bond is rather of a different nature & intent altogether !

    As you would say, you really don’t seem to following, do you. Never mind.

  73. technicolour

    28 Jun, 2013 - 6:59 pm

    Macky, Jives & Jon – thanks

  74. “In which case, Macky, you would presumably wish to abolish all visa requirements by all states on the grounds that some entrants are required to have a visa and others aren’t?”

    What a good idea. We could abolish visas and passports and things, abolish borders. The world could be one big happy family without all the us and them. Think of the money we would save. Just let people come and go as they wish, don’t see why not.

  75. Fred, finally a resounding sane rational insight. That in this weird world we live in would be called lateral.

  76. “Unionist propaganda frenzy is stepped up in Scotland as Daily Mail is given away in selected areas of the country with purchases of local-newspapers belonging to local-newspaper monopoly (and financially stricken) Johnston Press of ‘Scotsman’ infamy. Needless to say the free ‘Jockified’ edition of the Mail is packed with preposterous scaremongering concerning Independence and character assassination of Scottish National Party figures. The people aren’t buying it, literally.”

    I think the people have a right to be informed and the SNP is getting quite a reputation for just making it up as they go along.

    How do they stand on Europe this Week? How about NATO?

    They haven’t changed their minds about Trident have they?

  77. Well I must that little tag-team exchange has put the mockers on further debate for a time; numbed, stunned and in disbelief as we are, whilst the paradoxes, inconsistencies, sham arguments and tragically inept sarcasm rattle around and then sink without trace. Habbaduk erects a strawman attributing it to Macky, Villager collapses prostrate before it and Fred is summoned to try embellish it in his inimitable but woeful style, arriving after it has already been put to the flame and is blown to the four winds.

  78. Jon:

    “If you haven’t seen it, I have added some personal thoughts on moderation on the UN thread (if you wish to discuss, please do so there).”

    Maybe i’m misreading your suggestion, but are you actually (as in an action) there to ‘discuss’ on the other thread?

    Still not a peep on sock-puppets. In the spirit of anarchy, and of what Fred said earlier about freedom (what’s in a name?), i’d be very relaxed about people posting a chosen name on any single thread and commit no more continuity. That way there’ll be no way to allow for commenters to dig up useless history although there’ll be a lot more speculation of socks and gloves, suspect.

    Or is it that Sophie Habbercake/Kibo Noh/David are being ignored because of their support to Mary and being anti-Habbabkuk, which of course for all the racist calls here would just be another form of discrimination. My mind is dealing with some difficult questions relating to bias and objectivity, particularly at this gridlock of a crossroads the whole movement of the blog reached. I ask this fundamental question in the spirit of freedom, healthy skepticism and a need to understand how life works here. I hope you don’t mind my asking but thus far even an observation leave alone a comment from you has been rather mystifyingly conspicuous by its absence.

    I can sniff out smelly socks but i can’t read minds.

  79. “I can sniff out smelly socks but i can’t read minds.”

    Oh dear Villager, it sounds like you’ve been sniffing solvents rather than socks !!

  80. Cryptonym, self projection of your herd mentality, perhaps?

    My agreement is profoundly with Fred, someone we all know you long have a bias against. At least i can understand his English with crystal-clear-clarity (goes for Habby too) than your flowery prosaic attempts. And you’re still calling Habby names — get a move on if you respect this blog, and stop disgracing it and yourself.

  81. Not happy with corporate/government surveillance? Here’s a nice page presenting the alternatives to corporate software and services:

    http://prism-break.org/

    Personally, I completed the move to open source operating system (ubuntu) earlier this year. No more windows!

  82. “Villager collapses prostrate ”

    I collapse prostrate to Nature, my ‘God’ and this marvellous blue planet, Earth. Nature made all the races –its a colourful world. But man has made all the Nation-states and religions. They are all in the psychological structure of your head.

    Conspiracy theory?

  83. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 8:55 pm

    The BBC doing the backing up as per usual.

    ‘Several hundred people earlier took to the streets of Pretoria in protest against Mr Obama’s foreign policy.

    However, the BBC’s James Copnall in the city says Mr Obama does have wide support in South Africa.’

    Barack Obama in South Africa amid vigils for Mandela
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-23094361

    ~~

    Welcome home Craig. You will be sorry to be back unless you have already been watching from afar. Shame about your heel.

  84. technicolour

    28 Jun, 2013 - 8:56 pm

    Villager: you are overdoing it on the ‘sock puppets’. Everyone else knows that ‘Sofia’ was a joke.

  85. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:00 pm

    James Copnall has been doing sterling work holding the fort in South Sudan!

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/james-copnall

    His twitter advertises his new book. https://twitter.com/JamesCopnall

    A Poisonous Thorn in Our Hearts: Sudan and South Sudan’s Bitter and Incomplete Divorce – to be released

  86. “it sounds like you’ve been sniffing solvents”

    Santa Maria Novella’s Patchouli or Tabac Tuscana…..not for Little Big Mac plebs like you. Nevertheless thank you for your concerns about my state of being.

    Note: you are trying hard to bring down the standards of this blog — your contribution of juvenile pics helped bring it to rock-bottom. You may be a great student of history–i don’t know, of the past, but you need to grow a few inches taller into the present so can keep up with the pace of real intellects here and the fast moving world.

    And stop playing KoWn’s secretary.

  87. It’s no use Tech, Villager only get habby-clown jokes !

    ““The first man to fuck little Sophie
    Has just won the Kraft-Ebing Trophy,
    Plus ten thousand quid,
    Which, for what the chap did,
    Will be widely denounced as a low fee.”

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/comment-page-3/#comment-414075

    “Ha ha ha Habbakuk

    Brilliant one! Touche! .”

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/comment-page-3/#comment-414079

  88. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:11 pm

    A welcome but rather unusual move from Erdogan in the light of his domestic problems.

    Erdogan to break Gaza’s sea, air blockade
    28/06/2013 – 09:27 AM

    GAZA, (PIC)– Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan is due to arrive to the Gaza strip on a navy ship which is to move to Gaza’s international Mediterranean waters, Turkish diplomatic source revealed.

    Alray news agency quoted a Turkish source as saying that Erdogan “would then board a helicopter to the landing pad of late president Arafat in Gaza’s Ansar security facility.”

    “Turkish PM will break Israel’s sea and air blockade on the Gaza Strip in honor of the Mavi Marmara flotilla nine passengers killed in an Israeli raid, as their hopes for a free Gaza outweighed Israeli apologies and compensation,” the source added.

    The diplomatic source stated that the 18-member Turkish delegation’s visit to Gaza came in line of the Turkish arrangements for Erdogan’s upcoming trip to the Gaza Strip.

    /..
    http://tinyurl.com/pcrfo9w

  89. “A welcome but rather unusual move from Erdogan in the light of his domestic problems.”

    Goodness ! A very bold, indeed brave move ! No wonder the actual date is not confirm, as I wouldn’t put it pass the Israelis to sabotage the trip, or even shoot his helicopter down; then we will see the ME really explode !

  90. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:23 pm

    Oh dear! I put this on the UN thread by mistake following Macky’s links. V droll.

    Reposting.

    Israel’s chief rabbis snub leader of Anglican Church
    Archbishop Justin Welby was to meet Rabbis Shlomo Amar and Yona Metzger during his visit to Israel, but between house arrest and a visit to Spain, he had to make do with Rabbinate officials.
    by Yair Ettinger

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israel-s-chief-rabbis-snub-leader-of-anglican-church.premium-1.532452

    Metzger anyway is under investigation.

    Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger questioned on suspicion of money laundering, bribery
    The chief rabbi is also suspected of theft and breach of trust; three others also also arrested in connection with the case.
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/top-chief-rabbinate-official-questioned-on-suspicion-of-money-laundering-bribery.premium-1.531053

    Bad timing Justin.

  91. Obama and his Satanic trolls and sock puppets should watch this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PJ6r1j2SPQ

  92. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:32 pm

    @ Macky

    I’ll try one last time to take you through it slowly and then, if you still don’t understand, I think I’ll give it a rest. Feel free, of course, to have the last word (chronologically speaking).
    _______

    With specific reference to your latest post (18h58), we were actually discussing not the proposed instrument per se, and even less its financial aspect, but your contention that it contravened the provisions of the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights (or, as you then went on to say, the ‘spirit’ of that Declaration and/or the ‘principle’ of Human Rights). I attempted to show you that you were mistaken in both your basic assertion and your quasi-legal arguments thereafter.

    Can I remind you once again that

    – the Declaration mentions a great number of human rights but it does not mention the freedom to enter the territory of another state (for whatever purpose) as one of them. Where it does mention freedom of movement (Article 13), it does so in the following terms:
    “Everyone has the right of freedom of movement and residence WITHIN THE BORDERS OF EACH STATE” (emphasis added).

    – it is meaningless and misleading to then talk about a violation of the ‘principle’ (or the ‘spirit’) of human rights. The provisions of the Declaration are the ‘concretisation’, the written reflection, the translation into practice of that principle, and the fact that there are no provisions which identify the freedom to enter another state as a human right must be seen as evidence that the drafters of the Declaration did not see the freedom to enter another state as such a human right. You may of course say that they should have done, but that’s another matter.

    – specifically on your latest post, you say :

    “the cash-bond is rather of a different nature & intent altogether !” (to visa requirements).

    Yes, of course it is. A visa is an authorization which all nationals of certain states are required to obtain in order to be able to enter the UK for various purposes, usually for a temporary period. The proposed bond is intended to help ensure that the that the terms and conditions under which the visa has been granted are respected; it is therefore not an authorisation but a modality. It is ‘discriminatory’ to the extent that it will be required not of all nationals of all states whose citizens need a visa in order to enter the UK but only to all nationals of certain of those states. It is therefore no more ‘discriminatory’ than the visa regime itself, which imposes visa requirements on, say, Russian but not Swiss nationals. This is why I asked you if you also objected to the principle and practice of visas. And I would point out that no-one has so far claimed, either before the courts or on this blog, that visa requirements constitute a violation of human rights, either as laid down in the Declaration or even of the ‘principle’ or ‘spirit’ of human rights.

    I rest my case, except to repeat that while you may question whether the bond is the right instrument for achieving the propose sought (in terms of effectiveness, the hard cases to which it might give rise, etc etc) you cannot question it by claiming that it violates human rights.

  93. Flaming June

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:33 pm

    One last reference to Reich from the Telegraph obituary.

    “He made large donations to Israel — where he received several honorary awards, and where he will be buried.” Lovely man. He will join Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch – alias Robert Maxwell, on those sun drenched slopes above the Kidron Valley where Christ was buried.

    One can suppose that Reich’s loot helped to kill and maim some Palestinians, along with the expansion of ‘settlements’. It is an elemental struggle of good against terrible evil.

  94. doug scorgie

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:33 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    27 Jun, 2013 – 10:25 pm

    To Jon:

    “You misunderstand the thrust of my post on the “Oxford 5″, which was not to hint that some other posters were in favour of child abuse/rape but to draw attention to what might seem to be a certain one-sidedness in their concern about children – loud when it’s Muslim Afghan children accidently killed by an American drone but silence when it’s British kids deliberately misused and tortured by Muslims.”

    Are you obsessed with Muslims HB?

    You write above: “…Muslim Afghan children…”

    99% of Afghans are Muslim so why do you need to emphasise “Muslim” when you could have merely said Afghan children?

    “…accidently killed by an American drone…”?

    Could you describe a Jewish child (for example) being accidently killed by a Syrian drone?

    I think your mask is slipping HB.

    The majority of posters here I venture are wholeheartedly abhorred by child murder, torture and sex-abuse, whatever the religion, colour or creed of the abuser; a child is a child.

    A Muslim child abuser is as bad as a Christian or Jewish or Atheist child abuser.

    You seem incapable of seeing that this is the majority consensus among posters on this blog.

  95. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:45 pm

    @ Fred (19h16)

    “What a good idea. We could abolish visas and passports and things, abolish borders. The world could be one big happy family without all the us and them. Think of the money we would save. Just let people come and go as they wish, don’t see why not.”
    ___________

    I think that might be something of a minority viewpoint, Fred, and not only in the UK. I shall consider it to have been an essay (and a rather successful one!) at humour. :)

  96. It seems like Edward Snowden’s situation has gone down rapidly since the bail skipper in the Ecuadorian Embassy became involved. Funny that.

  97. Macky ; Goodness ! A very bold, indeed brave move ! No wonder the actual date is not confirm, as I wouldn’t put it pass the Israelis to sabotage the trip, or even shoot his helicopter down then we will see the ME really explode
    !

    😯

    Someone call the Medic.

  98. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:54 pm

    From Flaming June, just now :

    “One last reference to Reich from the Telegraph obituary.

    “He made large donations to Israel — where he received several honorary awards, and where he will be buried.” Lovely man. He will join Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch – alias Robert Maxwell, on those sun drenched slopes above the Kidron Valley where Christ was buried.

    One can suppose that Reich’s loot helped to kill and maim some Palestinians, along with the expansion of ‘settlements’. It is an elemental struggle of good against terrible evil”
    ______________________

    ? ? ?

  99. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jun, 2013 - 9:58 pm

    @ Doug Scorgie :

    “a child is a child.”
    __________

    Exactly the point I was trying to make, Doug.

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