All Law is Gone: Naked Power Remains

by craig on July 3, 2013 8:39 am in Uncategorized

The forcing down of the Bolivian President’s jet was a clear breach of the Vienna Convention by Spain and Portugal, which closed their airspace to this Head of State while on a diplomatic mission.  It has never been thought necessary to write down in a Treaty that Heads of State enjoy diplomatic immunity while engaged in diplomacy, as their representatives only enjoy diplomatic immunity as cyphers for their Head of State.  But it is a hitherto unchallenged precept of customary international law, indeed arguably the oldest provision of international law.

To the US and its allies, international law is no longer of any consequence.  I can see no evidence that anyone in an official position has even noted the illegality of repeated Israeli air and missile strikes against Syria.  Snowden, Manning and Assange all exposed illegality on a massive scale, and no action whatsoever has been taken against any of the criminals they exposed.  Instead they are being hounded out of all meaningful life and ability to function in society.

I have repeatedly posted, and have been saying in public speeches for ten years, that under the UK/US intelligence sharing agreements the NSA spies on UK citizens and GCHQ spies on US citizens and they swap the information.  As they use a shared technological infrastructure, the division is simply a fiction to get round the law in each country restricting those agencies from spying on their own citizens.

I have also frequently remarked how extraordinary it is that the media keep this “secret”, which they have all known for years.

The Guardian published the truth on 29 June:

At least six European Union countries in addition to Britain have been colluding with the US over the mass harvesting of personal communications data, according to a former contractor to America’s National Security Agency, who said the public should not be “kept in the dark”. This article has been taken down pending an investigation.
Wayne Madsen, a former US navy lieutenant who first worked for the NSA in 1985 and over the next 12 years held several sensitive positions within the agency, names Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain and Italy as having secret deals with the US.
Madsen said the countries had “formal second and third party status” under signal intelligence (sigint) agreements that compels them to hand over data, including mobile phone and internet information to the NSA if requested.
Under international intelligence agreements, confirmed by declassified documents, nations are categorised by the US according to their trust level. The US is first party while the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand enjoy second party relationships. Germany and France have third party relationships.

The strange script which appears there happens when I try to copy and paste from this site which preserved the article before the Guardian censored all the material about the UK/US intelligence sharing agreement from it.

As you can see from the newssniffer site linked above, for many hours there was just a notice stating that the article was “taken down pending investigation”, and then it was replaced on the same URL by the Guardian with a different story which does not mention the whistleblower Wayne Madsen or the intelligence sharing agreements!!

I can give, and I would give on oath, an eye witness guarantee that from my direct personal experience of twenty years as a British diplomat the deleted information from Wayne Madsen was true.






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  1. Putin’s good. He said this in one take without breaking up. No teleprompter either. “If he wants to stay here, there is one condition: He must stop his work aimed at harming our US partners – no matter how strange this may sound coming from me… ”

    It can’t get much better. I doubt Snowden is struck in transit at the Moscow airport, but now the Bolivian President, his Defense Minister and their air crew are trapped in the transit area of the Vienna airport. No evidence of Sacher Tortes and coffee on silver trays either. All hail Obama and Kerry. Takes Ivy League smarts to pull this off. The diplomatic cables should be real-time available to us for real-time laughs.

    It’s the new Library at Alexandria. The sum wisdom and stupidity of the human race. They also need store the billions of spams per day. Who knows what messages Enemies of the State might embed in those.

    We’re reminded we have nothing to fear if we have nothing to hide, and nobody is snooping aunt Maude’s recipe for rhubarb pie. Based on all gubmints’ record for truth-telling, they surely are reading recipes, testing and selling the tastiest to food conglomerates. :)

  2. The media has long been under the sway of the government. Look on the BBC website for the new stories about the dangers of dark nets and the impact they are having on Internet child abuse. This information has been put out there so as to build up public acceptance that anyone not communicating in plain text is up to no good. It also has the subliminal effect of reinforcing why its good for GCHQ to monitor all Internet traffic.

  3. The censoring of the story of Wayne Madsen reminds me of the story of Radio Moscow’s news reader Vladimir Danchev who called Soviet troops in Afghanistan “invaders” and “occupiers”, and was quickly taken off air and treated as a mental patient.

  4. Tech Savage

    3 Jul, 2013 - 9:22 am

    Seems to me the BRICS have become very suspicious of Snowdon’s motives, which seem primarily to be about creating a rift between the US and the EU. What is without doubt is that no one is actually really shocked about PRISM, we’ve known about Echelon for decades, where’s the outrage? All this bluster from Germany and Belgium is to placate the media instilled ‘anger’ of their populations.

    When you strip away the media hype you are actually left with very little that wasn’t already known; the US spies on it’s allies and is collecting data on people, FFS they have been doing that since day one, as have the UK, Russia, China. etc. etc. What do you think those secret services spend all their time doing, just watching each other?

    Wikileaks is a psyop – you can support Assange all you like, the fact is the Wikileaks cables were highly vetted (not one cable regarding the US’s ‘greatest’ ally in the M.E.?) before they fell into the hands of Assange, who then treated them as his personal property for financial gain, for which his controllers duly deployed the sexual allegations to bring him back in – and why he now prefers to live like a parasite off the Ecuadorian people rather than face the music that he partly orchestrated.

  5. Tech Savage

    3 Jul, 2013 - 9:26 am

    “The media has long been under the sway of the government.”

    Yes, just ask Rupert Murdoch.

  6. While your hunch may be correct (nothing surprises me about this story anymore), Wayne Madsen is a true nutcase. I don’t know how the Guardian was snookered into including anything by or about him in a story.

  7. Right-Wing Hippy

    3 Jul, 2013 - 9:27 am

    The strange script which appears there happens when I try to copy and paste from this site

    Paste it into Notepad, then copy from there and paste into WordPress. This will clear the formatting.

  8. Austria said the president of Bolivia was cleared to leave through Spain’s airspace, now story is that’s not true; Spain still blocking.

    Craig, you think the Europeans are having some passive-aggressive fun, having been bullied into forcing Morales’ plane down in Vienna, they’re now messing around and allowing US stew for a few more hours in world outrage?

  9. conjunction

    3 Jul, 2013 - 9:33 am

    What is interesting is the arrogance of this act. Obama often speaks as if he were lord of the universe, or more specificaly as if it were/should be a given that the USA is the benefactor of and main holder of wisdom amongst mankind. His earlier remarks about Snowden were slightly dismissive which made me think it was his playmates who were getting their knickers in a twist. But he must have authorised this.

  10. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 9:46 am

    I was coming back here from your previous post Craig to wish you (and your heel) well and to ask if you could comment on this outrage given your expertise in international law.

    We know that Israel knows no law and now the US acts likewise. Completely out of control and their ‘president’ is a hypocritical and implausible one dimensional chimera fit only for photo opportunities visiting slave houses and prison cells.

  11. It is true. There is no longer any international law.

    This report produced by Yorkshire CND is well-researched history of what goes on at Menwith Hill (and elsewhere).

    The US has at least five major stations in the UK. Parliament never gave permission for these bases but the US in its arrogant bullying manner has done what it does regularly, stolen it from right under our noses.

    Don’t forget that tomorrow there is an Independence from America demonstration outside Menwith Hill, a US communications interception station, near Harrogate. The time has come to speak out and make your presence felt. Salma Yaqoob is one of the speakers. There is excellent food available.

  12. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 9:59 am

    Meanwhile the Evil Empire is lost and going down. Crumbling back to ashes and dust.

    ‘Soon enough, your neighborhood will resemble mine, for the United States is becoming ever more Third World economically and socially, but this, the Italian Market, is hardly a benchmark. We’ll go further, much further. Outside its richest, gated enclaves protected by armed guards and, surely, combat robots and drones, the US will devolve into a society of rooming houses, day laborers and peddlers, not to mention street urchins and part-time prostitutes.’

    Linh Dhin the author keeps a photoblog – The State of the Union -where he closely observes his environment and his fellow citizens

  13. Well, the US doesn’t recognize international law, and neither does the UK. And they fail to recognize international law whilst, amusingly, warning others that they should obey international law, and they use this tactic repeatedly. It’s quite a trick, worthy of Goebells.

    I was intrigued by the Wayne Madsen story. Like everyone else on these boards, I have stumbled upon Mr Madsen, usually during a late night intergoogle. I kind of have him down as a bit of a crank, to be honest, from the outlandish conspiracy breed of crank. I say ‘kind of’ advisedly: so called conspiracy theorists are, of course, being proven correct on the NSA revelations, and I do so hate how often ‘conspiracy’ is bandied about, as a kind of gun-silencer, a smear, by dim-wits liks Oliver Kamm.

    However, even the wildest conspiracy crank, if that’s what he is, can get it right sometimes. I’m glad Craig – who doubtless is aware of Mr Madsen’s reputation – has given us his eye-witness account. The story itself, regardless of its source, didn’t seem all that implausible. I suspect more to come, too.

    And Mr Madsen is far more plausible, now, than the increasingly weird and creepy Obama, bluntly.

  14. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 10:07 am

    For information to those quick off the mark to smear Madsen. The usual CT stuff is hurled in the manner of Kamm, Rentoul and Aaronovitch. It sticks of course like the stuff you tread in on the pavement sometimes.

    On June 30, 2013, The Observer, which is owned by The Guardian, in London published a story sourced from an interview with Madsen that it had found in a blog, alleging connections between the National Security Agency and several European governments. [20] International journalists and security experts pointed out that Madsen was wholly unbelievable. Several called him an “online conspiracy theorist.” [21][22] John Schindler, a professor at the Naval War College and intelligence expert, commented on Twitter that Madsen was “batsh*t crazy, to use the technical term.”[23] The Telegraph, a U.K. competitor, and Forbes both revelled in the controversy with a Telegraph newsblog saying that The Guardian had relied on a “fruitloop who thinks Obama is gay”. [24][25] The article was quickly removed from the parent (Guardian) newspaper’s website pending an investigation, but not before the print edition had gone to press.[26] According to Forbes, The Observer likely took the story down as it was concerned with the reliability of the source rather than the content as no matter how “left field” the source was, the story seems to be largely true and has been a matter of public record for some years.[24]

  15. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 10:18 am

    I used to be jeered at for speaking of the rise of fascism. It is creeping in, invisible to many.

    ‘Understanding the latest leaks is understanding the rise of a new fascism

    20 June 2013

    In his book, ‘Propaganda’, published in 1928, Edward Bernays wrote: “The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organised habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.”

    The American nephew of Sigmund Freud, Bernays invented the term “public relations” as a euphemism for state propaganda. He warned that an enduring threat to the invisible government was the truth-teller and an enlightened public.

    The power of truth-tellers like Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, and Edward Snowden is that they dispel a whole mythology carefully constructed by the corporate cinema, the corporate academy and the corporate media. WikiLeaks is especially dangerous because it provides truth-tellers with a means to get the truth out. This was achieved by ‘Collatoral Murder’, the cockpit video of an US Apache helicopter allegedly leaked by Bradley Manning. The impact of this one video marked Manning and Assange for state vengeance. Here were US airmen murdering journalists and maiming children in a Baghdad street, clearly enjoying it, and describing their atrocity as “nice”. Yet, in one vital sense, they did not get away with it; we are witnesses now, and the rest is up to us.’

  16. Madsen as conspiracy theorist.

    Of course I realise that will make him a hero and a highly credible source to many people around here. Just excuse the rest of us if we have a good laugh.

    Sorry if I have this wrong but I thought Diplomatic Immunity guaranteed free passage and immunity from prosecution to particular individuals. Snowden is not an acredited diplomat so does not have immunity from arrest. Neither does freedom from prosecution mean freedom to commit an offence. There’s nothing in the Vienna Convention that prevents anyone from intervening to stop an offence being committed by a diplomat. (I am fully aware that reference to an offence is going to be controversial but I’m looking at events from “their” point of view.)

    I’m also mystified as to why Snowden has applied for asylum in so many countries which are NATO members. Would they not be treaty bound to arrest and extradite him? If not wouldn’t they be inclined to allow his rendition?

  17. I’ve just tried to raise an Epetition on Telecommunications Interception to the Ministry of Defence which if I recall correctly went something like this.

    “Following the revelations by Edward Snowden and others, we, the British public, call for closure of US bases at Menwith Hill, Alconbury, Croughton, Lakenheath, Mildenhall and elsewhere which are intercepting emails, monitoring social networking sites, listening to telephone conversations and providing coordinates for US drone attacks abroad . . .”

    When I clicked on the link in the confirmation email I got a message saying that it confirmed the email address was correct and it could take up to 7 days before I would know whether it had been approved. I never had this with the last Epetition I raised.

  18. Obama is a liar when he says US forces won’t grab Snowden if he flies over US territory on his way to Cuba.

    Huge US pressure is being put on a number of countries’ governments.

    These include not just Russia but also France, Portugal, and Ecuador.

    Snowden was stitched up into flying to Moscow. He was given an Ecuadorean safe passage (laissez passer), which was then withdrawn!

    The western media churns out the bullshit that Ecuadorean diplomats in London are taking orders from Julian Assange rather than from Quito. What I think happened is that the US exerted pressure on both the foreign ministry in Quito and the Wikilinks hierarchy. Don’t forget that the Ecuadorean currency is the US dollar. The Russian government, through Russia Today, helped Julian Assange, and so did the Ecuadorean government. Now they’re both too chickenshit to follow through. I hope the Ecuadorean government changes its position.

    Snowden will be absolutely nuts if he flies anywhere near US or British airspace, or sails anywhere near their waters.

    Kim Philby avoided going through the English Channel en route to Cuba.

    Bobby Fischer avoided flying to Keflavik airport in Iceland, but chose to fly to a smaller airport less susceptible to US military action.

    With reference to Snowden, Bobby Fischer is the example people should be talking about.

    The list of governments that may help is now very small, and includes Bolivia, Venezuela, and Cuba, possibly in that order, and followed by Ecuador.

    The Bolivian government has been an example to the whole world in not kowtowing to the US and Israel.

    It is very significant that the aircraft carrying president Evo Morales, who was in Russia, was refused permission to enter Portuguese or French airspace. That must surely have been as a result of US pressure.

    In the end, the plane had to refuel in Spain and land in Austria.

    Morales has denied that Snowden was on board the plane.

    I do not know whether Snowden was ever in any area which can be considered to be under Bolivian jurisdiction (e.g. in the presidential car at Sheremetevo airport), but if he was, then I hope he was granted asylum when he was.

    The US government is pulling out all the stops.

    As I understand it, Morales is stuck at Vienna airport.

    I hope he is very careful about what he eats and drinks. Otherwise he may end up like a number of other Latin American leaders.

    I dearly hope that Bolivia has granted Snowden asylum, or if it hasn’t already, that a way will be found for it to do so.

    Morales: “We say and advocate that someone in the world should stand with this young man and protect him. The revelations he has made with courage serve to change the world.

    No doubt we will soon be hearing from all the barrack room lawyers.

  19. The BBC quote Austrian officials as saying Morales’s plane was searched at Vienna airport!

    Meanwhile, let us hope Ecuadorean president Rafael Correa’s U-turn was only temporary.

  20. Wayne Madsen may or may not be a swivel-eyed conspiracist nutjob. But what he said, and what was pulled by the Grauniad, was true. It didn’t even need security sources to back it. It was already in the public domain. A lot of messengers seem to be getting shot these days…

  21. Good post Craig.

    International law is mostly obviated by pro-US sympathies, including shameless cooperation by Australian politicians and political staff, some of whom have been exposed as US informants. On Obama’s reluctant visit to Oz, our current leader of the opposition referred to him in a speech as “.. the President of the world.” – – – I kid you not. You will not find evidence of this gaffe so easily. Not even on the intergoogle. The link below was a very tough find, confirmed by a nobody in the comments section of a completely unrelated article. Too embarrassing? Absolutely.

    “President of the World” in the comments section.

  22. Phone records? Or is it everything?.

    US senators would like to know:

  23. US military and spy bases in Britain

    3 Jul, 2013 - 11:34 am

    Snowden is only saying what everyone interested already knows.

    Meanwhile, things can go into the public domain and then back out. One example is that the US used to pay the UK a lot of money (10 figures, I seem to recall) for the ‘rental’ of its military and spy bases in the UK. The payments were officially published by British government statisticians as a component of invisible exports. (For several years, if it hadn’t been for foreign military and spy bases and Lloyd’s insurance market, British trade would never have been in the black.)

    Nowadays, even the people who run campaigns against the US military presence in Britain know little or nothing about whether payments are still made, let alone how big they are.

  24. @Komodo. It’s everything.

    Which includes:

    ● domestic electrical circuits
    ● face recognition
    ● anything remote-readable or that remote-reads, e.g. in cars and mobile phones

    Capability is far far ahead of what’s admitted.

    When someone at GCHQ or NSA or even poor old MI5 gets your file out, they can call up far more than your emails, internet activity and what numbers you’ve connected to on your phone.

  25. Don’t for a minute believe that the forced landing of Bolivia’s President’s plane was brought about by a genuine belief of the US that Snowden was on board. It just might have been a dry-run test of EU cooperation with US plans to arrest Snowden for this likely contingency.

    Then again, Wikileaks might have tested the waters first by arranging a false report of Snowden’s attempted flight from Moscow. With sufficient false reports making multiple forced landings embarrassingly problematic, they might be able to clear the way for Snowden’s eventual departure.

  26. Live blogging here

    “So, after a stopover of more than 12 hours at Vienna airport, Morales is on his way. But the diplomatic row is set to run.

    “Bolivia’s ambassador to the United Nations in New York said the refusal to let his president’s plane cross over European airspace was an act of aggression that should have consequences, AP reports …

    “French and Spanish officials have reportedly denied that they refused access to their airspace. Bolivia said Spain agreed to allow the plane to refuel in the Canary Islands but only if Bolivian authorities agreed to allow it to be inspected.”

  27. Phone records? Or is it everything?

    According to this ex fbi counter terrorism officer it’s everything:

  28. Now will people believe that the UK DID try to storm the Ecuadorian embassy in London last year, just ahead of Ecuador granting Assange asylum? I was up until 5am that night watching the livestream from the embassy and there were groups of police officers entering through windows round the side of the building. It seems the raid was called off abruptly about 3am because the police withdrew. As Craig told us at the time, he heard from Foreign Office colleagues that it had been planned for 3 weeks because of DIRECT pressure on Cameron and Hague from Washington/Obama. (Everyone remember Cameron and Clegg both booking their holidays at the same time, then Hague cleared off 2 days later? That’s how ‘plausible deniability’ is done.)

    Ecuador’s Foreign Minister announced last night they found a listening device in the London embassy during his visit to Assange last month. They say they are announcing which country it belonged to this morning. Also, that Snowden’s letter to Correa was hacked and leaked to the press before Correa even received it; Ricardo Patino claims his email account was hacked to create all the “increasing tensions in Ecuador over Assange ‘running the show'” stories; and they have tape recordings of Correa’s statements about Snowden’s asylum, which they claim have been mistranslated in the press. I predict a fairly explosive news day comin’ up!!

  29. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 12:28 pm

    ZBC have a tag* in their most read list on their website –

    Snowden suspicion jet ‘can fly home’ !!!!!!!!!!!

    Wow, that’s good of the ‘President of the World’, as another person has called him, this time in Tanzania.

    ‘“Obama is like the president of the world,” said Nuhu Sandari Mohamed, 60, who was out for a stroll along the street named after the president. “The fact that he’s connected to Africa, my children and their children and their children should know.”

    Couples strolled and sat by the water on Barack Obama Drive on Tuesday, as ice cream salesmen pedaled their three-wheel cycles with coolers loaded with treats. For Said Maumba, 28, Mr. Obama’s visit was the best day he had ever had selling frozen treats, like Kreemas for about 31 cents, to the throngs waiting to watch Mr. Obama’s motorcade pass.

    “He’s hugely famous, and a lot of people are obsessed and just want to see a glimpse of him,” Mr. Maumba said.’

    *The tag takes you to

    Snowden case: Bolivia condemns jet ‘aggression’

  30. For the people asking upthread about the full extent of the NSA’s capability to capture all forms of comms in real-time, I have previously posted these two very informative articles about exactly that. The NSA were developing (and had patented) the technology to do “machine-transcription of voice” back in the 1990s. We can presume the technology has only improved since.

    Rixstep 13/6/13: NSA Transcribing Voice 17 Years Ago,00.shtml

    Rixstep 13/6/13: On US Patent 5,937,422 & ‘Semantic Forests’,00.shtml

    Hats off to Assange for understanding the implications for us all when he discovered this NSA patent back in 1999, and for trying to blow the whistle back then (aged 27 by my calculation – how happy he must be to see someone from the next Internet-generation doing the same to such effect a decade or so later. No wonder he’s doing everything in his power to help spirit Snowden out of danger.)

  31. FAO Craig,

    Here is the text without strike through;

    At least six European Union countries in addition to Britain have been colluding with the US over the mass harvesting of personal communications data, according to a former contractor to America’s National Security Agency, who said the public should not be “kept in the dark”.

    Wayne Madsen, a former US navy lieutenant who first worked for the NSA in 1985 and over the next 12 years held several sensitive positions within the agency, names Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain and Italy as having secret deals with the US.

    Madsen said the countries had “formal second and third party status” under signal intelligence (sigint) agreements that compels them to hand over data, including mobile phone and internet information to the NSA if requested.
    Under international intelligence agreements, confirmed by declassified documents, nations are categorised by the US according to their trust level. The US is first party while the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand enjoy second party relationships. Germany and France have third party relationships.

    This article has been taken down pending an investigation.

    Perhaps this could be of some help.

    – – – – –

    This level of disregard for all conventions and treaties is repugnant even the National Socialist of the German Reich did not flout the international laws that US et al are systematically driving horse and coaches through! This is cowboys and red Indians gone wild.

    I am shocked, really truly shocked, this is the kind of stuff that starts all out wars.

  32. I really feel that people are powerless. Its not that revelations that Snowden released that is of any significance, its the actions take by the US government and European governments that have proven that the people are completely and unilaterally powerless to the security establishment we have allowed are government to create. We are now truly living in an Orwellian state, and even now so many people are blind to it.

    Just a few notes: I recommend everyone to read the Indian press as they not only failed to condemn PRISM, but announced that it had helped fight terrorism and they will now be basing their own program on it. I kind of get the impression that a few under hand deals were done between the Indian government after the news broke. The Chinese press also announced a phone monitoring system in Tibet, which surprisingly went unannounced.But both cases hint that both governments programs are nothing in the line of the US program.

    Another interesting point is the Sinovel trade case, were America announced they would prosecute Chine over stealing trade secrets despite now also technically being accused of doing the same.

    And the last point is I looked into the EU-US bugging, I am assuming it was down to the US wanting to pressure the EU not to except the Russian energy deals they were making at the time. Being the Lisbon Treaty which the US felt threatened by had just come into force.

  33. Ecuador’s Foreign Minister announced last night they found a listening device in the London embassy during his visit to Assange last month.

    So I guess that was the “security situation” that got Assange’s 1-year asylum anniversary speech cancelled the following day.

  34. It’s entirely possible that Snowden was being kidnapped from the transit area of the airport and the presidential ‘plane being used as cover for an extraordinary rendition. Doesn’t it just gladden your heart to see that positive action is now being taken by the governments of the free world to ensure that this kind of thing no longer happens and that a blind eye isn’t turned to the comings and goings of potentially suspicious aircraft ? It’s all the more impressive that even a stateless individual with passport and travel documents revoked can initiate such a prompt and well co-ordinated response from disparate organisations operating in different jurisdictions.

  35. Thanks, Craig, for starting this thread as it will allow posters to discuss all aspects of Snowden’s disclosures – e.g., who he really is, and why he did it, others apparently involved and what happened to them, government conspiracies and people who attempt to reveal them, all people are not invariably good and truthful, to get anywhere in effectively exposing our most corrupt, evil world one still has to make terrible compromises, then there are all kinds of surprises, good and bad, along the way, etc.

    Keep up with your efforts, and let’s hope that more posters show your virtues in promoting free expression.

  36. Although unlikely to be actionable, I believe NSA warrantless intercepts and recording of private communications are in breach of international copyright treaties that provide for extradition and prosecution of offenders as already effectively demonstrated in several cases. Will the US Govt provide public assurances that federal officials will not be allowed to engage in further copyright violations?

    Kim Dotcom (alleged copyright violator) has a stab at NZ PM (another copyright violator?)

  37. “Snowden was stitched up into flying to Moscow. ”

    Well it was Wikileaks who facilitated and arranged Snowden’s flight to Moscow, they who issued the suspect non-American-English statement purporting to have come from him and who are allegedly obstructing communication between Edward Snowden and his father. I’d hate to accuse them of exploiting Snowden for their own ends but…

    Interestingly whilst the Austrians claim to have searched the president’s plane the Bolivians deny any search took place; France and Spain also deny blocking the plane from entering their airspace.

    One day we might find out what the hell IS going on.

  38. We need to bear arms.

  39. Reporters Without Borders & WikiLeaks co-sign op-ed calling for EU to protect Snowden,44886.html

  40. Kempe, Wikileaks has been on the defensive ever since the summer of 2010 when it posted the Afghan Log, what Gareth Williams and Gudrun Loftus had put together and given it, without redacting names of those involved – what resulted in his brutal murder, and then hers when she tried to take up his cause. Astrophisicist Steve Rawlings followed them when he tried to determine St. John’s College, Oxford Dr. Sivia’s role in her murder.

    Certainly, Wikileaks did not try to stitch up Snowden by helping him go to Russia as Putin is more aware of what happened and more inclined to help than the Chinese but has nothing to gain by helping to promote the release of his disclosures.

    The Bolivian fiasco just shows what control Washington has over Snowden going almost anywhere now, leaving Obama with the puny, false claim about it not requiring the scrambling of fighters.

  41. @Arbed
    Now will people believe that the UK DID try to storm the Ecuadorian embassy in London last year, just ahead of Ecuador granting Assange asylum?

    I keep an open mind on it. Intimidation may have been a main aim.

    I was up until 5am that night watching the livestream from the embassy and there were groups of police officers entering through windows round the side of the building.

    Sounds like they took that route so as to get into an internal fire escape connecting several of the flats, including the embassy.

    Someone should keep video of stuff like this and post it up publicly.

    Craig told us at the time, he heard from Foreign Office colleagues that it had been planned for 3 weeks because of DIRECT pressure on Cameron and Hague from Washington/Obama.

    I wouldn’t believe every story that Foreign Office officials put out through Craig. They are capable of…well….you know…LYING THEIR SHITTY QUEEN-AND-COUNTRY PANTS OFF.

    And Craig, being mortal, is capable of being misled.

    Ecuador’s Foreign Minister announced last night they found a listening device in the London embassy during his visit to Assange last month.

    Hold the front page! :-)

    “They say they are announcing which country it belonged to this morning.

    Doesn’t seem that they did, though. It is unfortunate that they cannot simply shut their embassy in London, or even close the British embassy in Quito, which would provoke a tit-for-tat closure. While I am not sure whether the Brits were about to storm the embassy last year, I am pretty sure that if Ecuador plays the ‘diplomatic courier’ card, appointing Assange to that role and taking the position that he should then enjoy personal inviolability (which seems very clear under article 27.5-6 of the Vienna Convention, and note that diplomatic couriers, unlike diplomats, do not need to be accredited by a host country), the Brits and their masters from across the Atlantic (whether they much burgers or bagels) will show about as much respect for the Vienna Convention as they have been showing for the Geneva Conventions which are supposed to govern the treatment of POWs.

    I doubt that any hierarchical organisation is going to come out of the latest affair smelling of roses.

    And that includes those who already stink of AIPAC every second of the day, such as all but a handful of US senators. That said, actions such as the release of NSA information and the expulsion of USAID officials from Bolivia are to be welcomed unequivocally.

    One possibility here is the imminent eruption of very big problems with international trade. That was always going to be a feature of the inevitable economic collapse.

  42. Message from the people to Edward Snowden:

    “Thank you, Mr Snowden, for informing us of the activities of the NSA and GCHQ (ie, the USA and UK). You must understand that this information is unsettling to us, even though for many it’s only confirmation of what was suspected.

    We all have lives to lead, mortgages to pay, children to feed. We need to be able to continue with our lives for as long as we can. We don’t want the sack or ostracisation for speaking out (look what happened to you!).

    Thank you again, but,



    “First they came for the whistleblowers…”

  43. @Kempe 1.25pm
    @ Trowbridge 1.51pm

    Good points!

    Trow, have you had a look at the death of John Tiley at Cambridge University yet? He was the top tax law academic in the country. He fell to his death from the roof of a building at the law faculty 4 days ago.

    He backed the introduction of a “general anti-avoidance rule”. Anyone who knows Britain will know that such a thing would be a complete dead letter as far as the big boys are concerned, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t conflicts.

    The police say they aren’t treating the death as suspicious.

    His wife Jillinda says he gave absolutely no indication that anything was wrong. “It just beggars belief”.

    Nonetheless, Jillinda puts queen and country first, and is quoted as speculating “whether her husband had suffered a stroke or had found out about a medical problem.”

    Yes, or perhaps he leaned over too far when admiring the view.

  44. Let’s hear no Russopobhia here, especially conspiracy theories at Putin’s expense, when the Bolivian President plane fiasco is showing what a genius he is, and what criminal assholes are leaders are,

  45. neorefusenik

    3 Jul, 2013 - 2:30 pm

    The NATO/EU satellites have about as much autonomy as the Warsaw pact and they will escape from their hegemon in the same general way. Tensions in the Warsaw Pact were not diplomatic disputes with Soviet Russia but divergent approaches to repressing the population. NATO has nothing to worry about until public outrage starts toppling regimes. The litmus test for a genuinely new regime is a state that either repudiates odious debt or formally denounces NATO per charter Article 13.

    There’s plenty of popular support for both but the subject populations can probably be kept down in the absence of a transmission medium for principled opposition. When the Warsaw Pact was decaying, the transmission medium was the Helsinki Final Act and the charter movements.

    So where might the impetus come from now? Candidates include UNESCO’s culture of peace and the various occupation movements, which interpenetrate – but rights and rule of law are very muted in the occupy movements, presumably because UNESCO wants to subordinate doctrine to organization. UNCTAD’s right to development is another institutional initiative but it gets no traction in the NATO bloc.

    The peace and development initiatives are saying the same thing: austerity is violence and repression is violence just as war is violence; peace and development are just the sum of all human rights. The new charter is out there, offering instant legitimacy to anyone who picks it up.

  46. Excellent post, Craig.

    If, as some commenters are suggesting, there has been a concerted effort to close off NATO airspace to Morales on the hunch that Snowden was on board, this’ll seriously compromise any future attempts the latter may make to reach sanctuary in a Latin American country. It also represents a real upping of the ante by the septics.

    Faced with this sort of pressure, Putin as well may have blinked a couple of days ago in his press conference, in which he asked Snowden to desists from ‘anti American activities’. Interestingly, that still leaves the Chinese standing up to Uncle Sam- and if any country has the wherewithal to stare the US down, it’s them.

    The odds on Snowden taking a return flight to HK soon could be shortening quite a bit today.

  47. N_ said;


    Dropping is an age old favourite of the CIA, and by default the favourite of the satellite franchise of the the said illustrious organization, that even Truman after signing it into existence, became pretty disturbed by its putative “evolution” to the lawless firm that it was heading to become.

    Poor Gabby Rado in sulaymaniyah was dropped also, he had pretty damning evidence of the US B52 carpet bombing the Iraqi forces in that area.

    However remembering Terry Lloyd and his French cameraman Frédéric Nérac also among the list of the murdered for their intent on “whistle blowing”/reporting (unlike the embeds) on the hell on Earth that US created during its invasion of Iraq.

    – – – – –
    Flaming June said;

    I used to be jeered at for speaking of the rise of fascism. It is creeping in, invisible to many.

    Come on girl, we all know, and as Hollywood has taught us all; Fascists always wear jackboots, sport a moustache, clicking their heels at sighting any women, and heilling each other as they sip their Champagne, and talk animatedly and in foreign tongues about world domination. None of the current batch of lunatics, spivs, and carpetbaggers exhibit these traits, do they?

  48. @Neorefusenik


    Hello Kautsky and Lenin (‘injection of consciousness’), Bordiga (‘transmission belt’), or take it back to Chernyshevsky’s ‘Bell’ (Kolokol) later appearing as Lenin’s ‘Spark’ (Iskra). It’s all the same idea.

    I respect your good intentions, but you are looking for a “revolution” to be made by ‘nice’ middle class professionals leading a movement of public opinion.

    Things just don’t happen that way. Not if the word ‘revolution’ is to be used in a genuine sensem that is. Do you really like what’s happened in East-Central Europe? Adverts and ‘how much?’ all over the place, as increasing numbers of people fall through whatever passed for a social safety net.

    Things don’t happen that way

    EITHER in working class revolutions (which with a few exceptions, such as Spain in 1936 and in various places in 1968, are brought about by the fear of starvation),

    OR in the pro-US fake shit which went on in East-Central Europe in 1989 and has been going on in various Arab countries recently.

    The idea of a movement occupying buildings and spaces is great (so the police are preventing access to one building? fine, so go and take the building down the road; we are many; they are few), but unfortunately the notion of ‘occupy’ has been spectacularised (hello ‘Zeitgeist’), as have terms such as ‘Big Brother’ and ‘Room 101’. The ruling class are ahead of us, it has to be said.

    If there’s one thing the CIA know, it’s how to run a ‘colour revolution’.

  49. It should be

    N_ said;

    perhaps he leaned over too far when admiring the view.

  50. Thanks, N.., certainly sounds fishy, and I shall look into it.

    Wonder if he, like Rawlings, was asking too many questions about what was going around Oxbridge.

    It’s clearly open season on any possible trouble.makers, as I well know by narrowly escaping assassination last Thursday night at about 12:40 PM. If I had only stood up when the killer with a beam light, laser pistol shined it into the window next to my bed, I wouldn’t be doing this.

  51. And credit to Craig for his unambiguous witness. Excellent post.

    I remember echelon, spying on each other’s population, being public knowledge decades ago.

    The first wikipedia entry for echelon included:

    “…critics claim the system is also being used for crass commercial theft and a brutal invasion of privacy on a staggering scale.”

    “…one of the many new arrows in the intelligence community’s quiver, along with increasingly sophisticated bugging and interception techniques, satellite tracking, through-clothing scanning, automatic fingerprinting and recognition systems that can recognize genes, odours or retina patterns.”

    “Echelon is a name for one of the largest spy networks in history. It can capture nearly every telephone call, fax and e-mail message sent anywhere in the world. There are estimates that it intercepts up to 3 billion communications everyday. Participating countries: [[United States]], [[United Kingdom|UK]], [[Canada]], [[Australia]], and [[New Zealand]].”

    That was in 2001. None of these lines remain in today’s entry. Which starts with:

    “ECHELON is a name used in global media and in popular culture to describe a signals intelligence (SIGINT) collection and analysis network”

    Comparing historical versions of wikipedia’s echelon entry is possibly watching the slow, choking grip of pr.

  52. @ Conjunction: “Obama often speaks as if .. the USA is the benefactor of and main holder of wisdom amongst mankind.”
    You mean you didn’t know that? :)

  53. Arbed, at 12.27 p.m. I believe it that our police did try to storm the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. Steve Elibank made an FOI request about a memo sent to the government of Ecuador a note (unofficial) on 15 August 2012 from the British Embassy in Quito. It contained the following.

    “We have to reiterate that we consider continued use of diplomatic premises in this way, to be incompatible with the VCDR and not sustainable, and that we have already made clear to you the serious implications for our diplomatic relations.

    You should be aware that there is a legal basis in the UK – the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987 – which would allow us to take action to arrest Mr. Assange in the current premises of the Embassy.

    We very much hope not to get to this point, but if you cannot resolve the issue of Mr. Assange’s presence on your premises, this route is open to us.”

  54. All eyes are on Maduro –

    English summary:

    The route home might take a bit of calculation, I’d guess.

  55. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 4:15 pm

    O/T but this is terrible. It is about the loss of law in Syria and its replacement with Sharia law.

    There are two parts – the shooting in the head twice of a 14 year old boy by one of the rabbles in Aleppo. He had refused to give a free cup of coffee and made a joke about the Prophet returning.

    The second part is filmed in Saraqeb. It is of a flogging, fifty times with an electric cable, for the ring leader of a gang who had tried to steal a taxi driver’s car. The sentence followed a ‘hearing’ in a ‘Sharia court’. The others received forty lashes.

    These people are allies of Messrs Cameron and Hague and the video should be shown to all those MPs and others who express support for these rabbles and for arming them further.

    The boy killed for an off-hand remark about Muhammad – Sharia spreads in Syria

    I am amazed that the BBC have carried this.

  56. They may be fundamentalist terrorist bastards but they’re our fundamentalist terrorist bastards, eh?

  57. AFAICS, no-one has explained that the Graun article was simply a summation of Madsen’s interview with a blog called Privacy Surgeon. Madsen there actually gives the geographical locations of all the British and European interception stations which serve the NSA:


    Green party politician Malte Spitz sued to have German telecoms giant Deutsche Telekom hand over six months of his phone data that he then made available to ZEIT ONLINE. We combined this geolocation data with information relating to his life as a politician, such as Twitter feeds, blog entries and websites, all of which is all freely available on the internet.

    By pushing the play button, you will set off on a trip through Malte Spitz’s life. The speed controller allows you to adjust how fast you travel, the pause button will let you stop at interesting points. In addition, a calendar at the bottom shows when he was in a particular location and can be used to jump to a specific time period. Each column corresponds to one day.

  59. neorefusaniki

    3 Jul, 2013 - 4:50 pm

    You said revolution, not me, N_, and as you point out, there was nothing Marxist about the dissolution of COMECON and the Warsaw Pact, which was merely a nice first step. Human rights is considerably more subversive than Marxism/Leninism and NATO was lucky to get it under control. My question was, can you dust it off to use against the other totalitarian regime, the one that took over where the Soviets left off?

    Sure, CIA knows how to run a putsch, but they wouldn’t dare use human rights to start one. They’re scared of human rights. CIA was very nervous when Carter glommed onto human rights and they pushed back against Germany’s enthusiasm for Helsinki Final Act Point VII. They wanted predictable ‘stability’ as much as the Soviets did. And even now CIA assets like Otpor make a point of telling you that human rights is bullshit.

    So we’re talking apples & oranges.

  60. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 4:52 pm

    Morsi and others are under house arrest and a military coup is under way according to Sky’s Tim Marshall who is a fair and well informed reporter in my opinion.

  61. Another great article Craig. Thanks for all the great links Arbed, John Goss and Passerby.

    A N_ said, its not going be the middle class spurning change, but the young disaffected long term unemployed, the ‘cuts’ generation.

    Those young who persuade themselves that this world of many is still a good bet to raise a family and play society, will get further disaffected.

    Whether they will have the gumption or zest of the Egyptians is questionable. What we are seeing is that any opposition that is forming today, to any of their major policies or politi, is being instantly divided, infiltrated by undercover police who can’t keep it in, and split by their efforts.

    Any change will come rapid, as Tunesia it will be an emotionally moving issue and it will be startling to see.

    All those who still think everything is fine will wake up and hopefully realise that we are approaching the worst, a pseudo democratic, fascist dictatorship.

  62. F.June wrote:

    I am amazed that the BBC have carried this.

    Why? It fits their running mad muslims narrative, never mind the fact the madder they are the more closely allied to UK, US and Israeli hegemonic control aims throughout the region. Do you think the average reader or viewer will connect the perpetrators of these outrages with Hague and Cameron’s pet rebels, kept in cash, weapons and mind-bending ultimately fatal pharmaceuticals at Brit taxpayers expense?

    Religion in adults is of course a clear manifestation of mental disorder, but in no way is this observation limited to the muslim faith alone.

    Quite separately. It also has to be considered that NATO is now very much out of control and a menace to public safety; the EU too, long a political and economic partner to NATO is fully exposed as a subsidiary organisation of the US-run military alliance, a costly gargantuan public relations exercise glossing over naked US control over western Europe.

    There is not an institution, from UK domestic parliament, government and law, to international organisations, culminating in the UN, that is fit for purpose. Extremely aggressive mass de-population (of us too, not just faraway dark-skinned foreigners) whilst populations are still numerous enough to represent a threat to the elites and their demonic agenda, seems an obvious next step, if it is not already underway and well-advanced.

  63. Really does look like a suicide at first glance, given the wife’s attempt to explain it away as at best a physical surprise, and police having no interest in suspecting foul play.

    Looks like he might have been blackmailed or too guilty about something still publicly unknown.

  64. Another point about Madsen. They would say that he’s a maverick, its obvious.
    Exactly because he’s been a maverick does not mean he’s not right for once, but its convenient to call him that, to be expected as it is part of their repertoire to misinform and split opinions, infamy has always had its jealous detractors.

  65. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 5:07 pm

    Craig; Thanks for undertaking the subject. However, I think you are being little hard on Guardian.

    They seem to have followed the NSA disclosures pretty well, as opposed to the other paper receiving the scoop, WaPo. I think the concern arises from Madsens background and it seems having some credibility in a world declaring in near unison that Snowden should be apprehended and tried. Just my two cents.

  66. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 5:09 pm


    ‘having credibility in the face of a world declaring in near unison that Snowden should be apprehended and tried, is extremely essential at this stage of the game. Just my two cents.

  67. Y@Neorefusenik

    You said revolution, not me, N_,”

    Yep – sorry about that. I realised after I’d posted that my use of inverted commas could make it look as if I was (wrongly) quoting you, which I wasn’t trying to do! I should have rewritten, in at least some places replacing the word ‘revolution’ with maybe ‘popular upsurge’, or some term we could both accept as accurately summarising the kind of thing you were talking about. So, apologies for putting words into your mouth here!

    “Human rights is considerably more subversive than Marxism/Leninism and NATO was lucky to get it under control. My question was, can you dust it off to use against the other totalitarian regime, the one that took over where the Soviets left off?”

    This is not the place for me to go on at length about the gulf between Marx and Lenin, but there is an enormous one.

    But the role you give to the subversive power of already-formed ideas (can I say ideologies?)…I don’t agree with that. Ideas that assist with popular movements bringing about radical change have got to come out of people’s experiences and their growing awareness of what those experiences are about. I mean the proletarianised existence of the vast majority, maybe 80% of the population. The culture at the moment is so deeply schizoid; there has to be a massive rejection; it can’t have the truth injected into it, to be nurtured and grow within it, even conflictually. I don’t really want more people to watch the TV news; it wouldn’t be a big step forward. I would say human dignity is a more useful idea than human rights in the usual sense, or the ‘rights of man’ as they used to be called. ‘Human rights’ is a soiled term. If a movement opposed them to the rights of property, things would be a bit better, though.


    Jim Roberts of Reuters quotes Sacha Llorenti Soliz, the Bolivian ambassador to the UN, as also using the charged term “kidnapped” to describe the aeroplane incident. (The Bolivian vice president, Alvaro Garcia, said overnight that Evo Morales had been “kidnapped by imperialiam“.)

    Bolivia’s UN Amb.: “We’re talking about the president on an official trip after an official summit being kidnapped
    — Jim Roberts (@nycjim) July 3, 2013

  69. Better way to describe what happened to the Bolivian President’s plane is that it was HIJACKED!

    Looks like our so-called counter terrorists have turned into the real thing in spades.

  70. who in the world says that Snowden should be apprehended and tried Ben? would it be all those who signed petitions thanking him for disclosing their fascists traits?
    or is it just those who are beginning to realise that their own operations will be highlighted, not just that of the all knowing super-owl US.

    If Snowden is cornered and imprisoned, the real extend of this release will not see the light of day. Snowden knew this, why else disperse the material to journalists such as GG?
    He has a safety lever somewhere and the US, and its best bitch, Putin, sorry, couldn’t resist, know that they can’t get to it. Snowden has not accepted Putins deal, and the material that is out there is being held back by the Guardian and Spiegel, I’m sure of it.

    If he has sent it to the paper in electronic form, it would have been intercepted and the extend of his spying is already known.

    But the US says that they are unsure about the extent of his release of taxpayer paid for information, so he must have sent the lot by post, or handed it over to middle men.

    Still the world is focussing on the person of Snowden, nobody cares a flying fart as to what he actually has released and what the nature of it is.

  71. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 5:51 pm

    “or is it just those who are beginning to realise that their own operations will be highlighted, not just that of the all knowing super-owl US.”

    I think you have the same elements in the UK. Bloggers cover this with snark, or objectivity?

    In the US it’s the Obamabots versus their derogation ‘firebaggers’. The Obots are so highly invested in Obama they don’t want to spoil his Xmas pudding, (his leagacy).

    Then there’s Congress, whose sleepy tenure (or worse, knowingly complicit) are all worried about their careers in politics.

    More disclosures need to be made from the Powerpoint to make some critical mass. All there is is speculation and finger-pointing. We need some real juice to get this Full Monty.

  72. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 5:56 pm

    Trowbridge: HIJACKED is what Samuel Clemons called ‘Lightning’ as the perfect word, as opposed to the near perfect ‘lightning bug’ word.

  73. This is bound to go to the UN after UNASUR.

    Ideally the ALBA countries would break off relations with the US and all of its military allies. That’s what I’d like to see: a derecognition of the US regime, by an increasing number of the world’s countries; formal steps to dissociate from it and to impose sanctions on it as the criminal entity that it is. Let’s recall this is not the first time that Bolivia stands as an example for the world.

    However, this would mean a lot of embassies closing, and I wouldn’t fancy Julian Assange’s chances.

    So…was the plane searched?

    RT are reporting that the Austrian authorities grounded it and ‘decided’ to search it, which I don’t think they have any right to do, under international law, unless permission is given. (I may be mistaken on this point. I thought a presidential plane, carrying a head of state on a diplomatic mission, counted as extra-territorial.) RT are further reporting that Morales did give permission for a search.

    Another point: what terribly poor surveillance they must have at (mafia-controlled) Sheremetevo airport, if there could be any confusion about whether or not Snowden boarded the plane. Are they suggesting that he and his associates wanted to make it look as though he boarded the plane, or may have done, whereas in fact he didn’t? Fiendishly resourceful people, eh, to outwit the FSB, formerly known as the KGB?

    Because how on earth were Russian security unable to confirm that no, Snowden did not board the plane, unless they were deceived?

    Was there a little bit of corridor between the men’s toilet and the door through which Morales’s baggage was moved out to the plane, uncovered by any camera? Were the FSB unable to ascertain whether Snowden had had a case of the runs which required several hours on the pot (maybe they thought it would be indecent to look over the cubicle doors?), or, on the other hand, whether he’d made a quick dash across the corridor to hide among the suitcases before they were taken into the plane’s hold? Or what? As usual, it doesn’t stack up.

    If Russian security thought he might have got onto the plane, they’d have gone looking for him at the airport. Yes, even in the toilets.

    What we do know, and I’m repeating myself here, is that major problems may soon beset world trade.

  74. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 6:08 pm

    N_; They were given permission to search by the Bolivians. It’s a false security, because it’s similar to a search warrant they send out for, while they keep you in custody they prevent anything from being removed, until the warrant arrives. In this case they refused to allow their departure until permission given.

  75. My Goodness, but the Bolivians are steaming… This is the speech their VP, Alvaro Garcia Linero, gave last night, surrounded by the entire Bolivian cabinet (rush translation into English):

    “it is no longer the time of empires, because it is not the time of colonies; today is the time of peoples, today is the time of dignity.”

    Love that line! :)

  76. So are the Germans, Arbed, absolutely fuming.

    has anybody heard of Clarke, he’s not answering my emails, last I knew was that he’s fixing computers, saying that he’s going to be ‘as quick as he can’.

    let us know he’s OK.

  77. @Ben, I wouldn’t be so sure about any aspect of this.

    Certainly if Russian security thought someone might have flown off on a plane, but weren’t sure, and it was important to them, they’d search the airport.

    If Edward Snowden is ‘free’ in the transit area, airside, then presumably he is communicating with people who are following news reports, and he has access to them himself, so I wonder why he hasn’t at any time said publicly “Hey everyone, here I still am in Moscow; I’m not on anyone’s plane!”

    We don’t know whether he is at Sheremetevo or where he is.

    Nor do we know whether he is at liberty, even in the restricted sense of being able to walk around an airport transit area.

    We do know that Obama implied that US forces wouldn’t kidnap Snowden if he flew over US territory on his way to Cuba, and today’s events should make it clear to those to whom it wasn’t already clear that that was a dirty lie by the head of state of a criminal regime which rejoices in sticking two fingers up at international law.

  78. The European Commission could solve many of these problems by granting Snowden asylum in Brussels, and appointing him to the EU-USA Joint Committee to investigate all the problems Anglo-American data-mining is causing US-EU trade relations.

    He certainly is well informed about what has been going on, and by giving him asylum, it would tale his whereabouts, criminality, and safety out of the picture.

  79. Enlarging on my earlier terse comment.

    It is the religions and forms of religions which posit that they and their fellow followers are better, superior, morally or in any number of ways, or more doctrinally correct in their own interpretation of their own ‘big magic book’ than those of of another religion or of no religion, that are particularly dangerous in themselves and dangerous in that they can be used for nefarious indirect ends. The British state (formerly known as England) has always used religious extremists and extremism in this way, from John Knox in 16thC Scotland to protestant settlers in Ireland, to the present Syrian rebels, in a way ‘religifying’ disputes and issues about sovereignty, equality, freedom of conscience and freedom from external influences and control; adding destabilising irrationality and fear to matters which would otherwise be clear cut external interference and rejected overwhelmingly as detrimental and insulting to the populace at large in the target country or region, without the impenetratable religious fog and smokescreen masking such machinations as well as providing a recourse for the weak of mind as well as the calculating and exploitative to fall into predictable and thus controllable lines of (self) division. “Isms and Schisms”.

  80. doug scorgie

    3 Jul, 2013 - 8:07 pm

    3 Jul, 2013 – 10:41 am

    More Troll shite Kempe:

    “Sorry if I have this wrong but I thought Diplomatic Immunity guaranteed free passage and immunity from prosecution to particular individuals. Snowden is not an acredited [sic] diplomat so does not have immunity from arrest.”

    A deliberate misrepresentation of Craig’s post which had nothing to do with diplomatic immunity for Snowden.

  81. The US pretty much have copied Israel’s operation methods. Deny everything, ignore International Law and accuse anyone who disagrees with them as being terrorists… And we support their insane policies.
    And as for what they try to tar Wayne Madsen with, its just the same as they do with all whistle blowers.Blacken their names, make whatever they say sound conspiratorial and keep them as media clowns to continually take the piss out of.
    I’ve read quite a bit of his stuff. He seems to be a very analytical bulldog. Doesn’t let go.I’ve no way of knowing if what he says is true, but quite a few things so far have been.

  82. Craig,

    Its all old news!.

    “EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT Session document”

    11 July 2001

    “This report makes an important point in emphasising that Echelon does exist, but it stops short of drawing political conclusions. It is hypocritical for the European Parliament to criticise the Echelon interception practice while taking part in plans to establish a European Secret Service.”

  83. “NSA/GCHQ – The New Praetorians and the New Cold War”

  84. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 8:34 pm

  85. One little itsy bitsy point is going missing in all the comments so far;

    How did the incompetent US spy apparatus that is so good at spying on anyone who talks on the phone, or types on the internet, somehow get the wrong end of the stick (thinking Snowden is secreted on the plane) and put the word out about Evo’s ride ?

    Also of interest is how quick the toadies jumped into action by denying their air space, and how come Austria was chosen? Also why has Austria shown such a contempt for Bolivia?. Clearly someone is playing the whole bally lot of these bully and coattail hangers thereof for chumps, and wank hands.

    However, no doubt the decision for interdiction of Evo’s ride and subsequent search of it further highlights that this decision ought to have been taken at the highest authority levels. Thus who is the tosser now? This has so far been kept secret.

    Although there could exist the theory that pre-emptive sucker punching poor Evo, has been designed in the way of proving how earnestly US is chasing its fugitive, in a fashion after Wyatt Earp and Doc Halliday. This episode is in fact an attempt to warn anyone who may be entertaining the idea of helping Snowden.

    Finally we didn’t get here into this lawless world today , without the assiduous disregard of the laws, convention, treaties, and morality by zionistan for the last seven decades. The current state of the lawlessness could only have been possible, and so prevalent by the ziofuckwits running amok and making lawlessness so acceptable, and tolerable.

  86. I hope the silver lining to all this is that the South American countries will come together to find a solution to Snowden and present it as a joint solution so that the eventual country is not singled out for persecution. I can imagine that once settled a Russian military plane could render him to his asylum. Belarus is now being mentioned as a possible host.

    I’d love to know the contents of the Correa-Biden call. Could it be that Assange’s safe passage was discussed? Since Correa seems so satisfied with that call.

  87. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 8:50 pm

  88. @Someone (8:25pm)

    A bit slow on the uptake then the EU Parliament: New Zealander Nicky Hager layed out ECHELON in excruciating painstaking detail in his 1996 book Secret Power, focusing mainly on the NZ side of operations, and made it clear too that it targetted diplomatic communications as well served US commercial espionage ends, subverted legitimate governments and made regular enough forays into civilian chatter as to be a grave concern to everyone, everywhere. Duncan Campbell had been plugging away at the subject for at least a decade before that, as well as other closely related subjects from the Zircon and other spy satellites to the useless, ineffectual first version of the UK Data Protection Act. I think Craig Murray pointed in a recent blog post that something like ECHELON dates back to the the 1940s, having roots in US-UK WW2 joint activities and was common knowledge in diplomatic and government particularly for many decades. The current programs are like echelon on stilts and echelon is bottom rung old hat.

  89. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 8:57 pm

    This is not good news….

    “The former NSA contractor Edward Snowden misused his right to digital access and has created problems that outweigh the benefits of public disclosure, the UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon has said.

    Speaking to a gathering of the foreign affairs committee of the Icelandic parliament in Reykjavik on Tuesday, Ban said that in his personal opinion “the Snowden case is something I consider to be misuse.” The UN chief added that the opening up of digital communications should not be “misused in such a way as Snowden did”.

  90. 24 January 2012

    “Google announces privacy changes across products; users can’t opt out”

  91. You apparently know the answer to your own question – i.e. the incompetent American spooks, despite all their machinery to help them out, guessed wrong about Snowden’s whereabouts, like when they guessed that they could get rid of the USSR by simply triggering Palme’s assassination or when the planned to get rid of Castro’s Cuba at JFK’s expense.

    As for Austria’s role, it has been in America’s pocket ever since the departure of the Red Army. Don’t forget that the Mad Austrian aka Josef Fritzl was set up first as Palme’s assassin.

    As for tossers now, I would look along NATO’s covert Gladio line from Stockholm to Vienna. Sweden’s FRA is the biggest eavesdropping asset it has on the continent.

  92. Doug Scorgie

    ….Snowden is not an acredited [sic] diplomat so does not have immunity from arrest

    Thanks for making me laugh, I nearly choked on my apple:

    Although you are being so charitable calling the “illustrious contributor” a troll. An asshat is a more appropriate terminology.

    The point you have picked clearly shows he/she has no fucking clue and has not read Craig’s post (this post is not about an obscure and highly specialist field) , however in its haste bashing the keyboard trying to earn a couple more pennies, seeing as it gets paid for the linage, by hasbara dept.

  93. Cryptonym,

    You can bet that Echelon has been upgraded, it still plays a big part of a greater whole that has many, many parts to it.

  94. Jesus, Ben, that’s weird.

  95. That was to Ben at 8.50pm

  96. I would look along NATO’s covert Gladio line from Stockholm to Vienna. Sweden’s FRA is the biggest eavesdropping asset it has on the continent.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    The mechanics:

    How come US came by the information about Snowden being on the plane? ie Clearly the US assets in Russia should command a high credibility for the US to kick in to action the stop and search procedure. However, the reverse could be also true; a flimsy passing remark has been picked up by the US, and taken to be true.

  97. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 9:38 pm

    Christian Science Monitor

    “Since Morsi’s election, the US has been oddly supportive of Morsi, muted in its criticism even when his government has prosecuted American NGO workers dispatched to Egypt to work on democracy promotion. Though the message of the Obama administration this week has been that “democracy” is about far more than elections, for much of the past year it has given the opposite impression.”

    Weird is exactly right, Dreoilin.

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