Pandering to Racism

by craig on June 26, 2013 1:52 pm in Uncategorized

Here in Ghana people are stunned by the announcement that a bond of £3,000 will have to be submitted by visa applicants to the UK, redeemable on return.

It is unpleasant for a nation to be singled out as comprised of particularly untrustworthy individuals against whom special measures are needed.  Theresa May appears quite deliberately to be singling out countries whose citizens are normally black or brown – India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Ghana and Nigeria.  They are all citizens with extremely close ties to the UK.  For example, all of those countries supplied large numbers of men to British armed forces in two World Wars; with little resulting gratitude.

The true level of Britain’s regard for the Commonwealth is disclosed in all its arrogance; citizenship of the Commonwealth countries with the longest link to the UK will become a positive disadvantage in visa application.  Israeli settlers living in Occupied Palestine on the West Bank, incidentally, will still be allowed to enter the UK without any visa at all, despite membership of neither Commonwealth nor EU.  Paradoxical, isn’t it?

The measure shows the arrogant British disdain for these countries – of which India pre-eminently but also Ghana are fast growing and important trading partners.  Undoubtedly Ghana will retaliate with measures which hurt British businesses; many of my good friends are senior Ghanaian politicians, and they are all furious.  The rhetoric the British employ about transformation from colonial status to a modern partnership of equals is exposed for the tissue of lies it has always been.  This is a straightforward racist measure, aimed at securing the racist vote to the Tories.

Not does it make any sense.  If you are intending to enter the UK under false pretences, and have the intent illegally to settle and start a new life there, then £3,000 is scarcely a deterrent given the substantial economic gains you intend to make over the long period you intend to stay.  It will rather seem a good investment; people will find the money.  The people it will deter are those who never intended to overstay.  The extra cash upfront,  to the businessman for a business trip, for the student coming to study, for the tourist will drive them to go elsewhere, to the UK’s net loss.

More cruelly it will deter decent middle class people from coming to see grandchildren in the holidays, from going to the niece’s wedding,  from going to graduation.  Those things will become the prerogative of the wealthy, those with plenty of cash to spare.

This does nothing to deter illegal immigration.  It merely demonstrates populist racism, demonstrates contempt for some of the UK’s best-disposed friends, and demonstrates that the government thinks the right to travel is only for the rich.  It is contemptible.

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932 Comments

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  1. Sorry for the O/T: “Rebels” make gains in southern Syrian town of Deraa. This is right on the border with Jordan, where 4000 US marines are conducting “exercises” with their hosts. Now, I’m no conspiracy theorist, but…
    Don’t expect the Blind Broadcasting Corporation to ask if there might be a connection. If this keeps up, I would guess that the next move would be Syrian use of the Iskander missiles Russia delivered to them earlier this year. It will be Russia’s decision whether to fire them, of course, maybe near Aleppo in the north (but the Turks ain’t so keen now to help the “rebels” cos they got troubles of their own) or near Deraa itself; maybe a little piece of Jordan…
    You can see where this is going. Dis shit gettin’ REAL, as my analyst once said to me…

  2. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jun, 2013 - 11:05 pm

    ” Dis shit gettin’ REAL”

    Indeed. I sense a fuse is being lit.

  3. well spotted Mike, and when you listen top the BBc you would think they have nothing else to do but to report on Glastonbury,
    what a perfect distraction, massacres in |Syria to the tune of I can get no satisfaction, apocalypse now in reality.
    Dis shit is getting very real indeed, the Saudi’s put their hands in their pockets and made arms dealers smile, Deraa would be the first town to get the arms, for all the reasons you mentioned. Syria is also being supplied, whatever Putin may say, he’s not going to set Syria adrift.

    Add to this powder keg the lightning speed changes in Egypt, by tomorrow this could be civil war with a sectarian flavour.

    I’m appalled at the impotence of the UN and the ease by which its various hands are being corrupted and bend over to suit crooks.

    Time to dig that hole…

  4. Anyway. Great speech by Glenn Greenwald on the Ed Snowden leak, speaking freely amongst friends.

    Very funny too.

    Starts 10.00 mins in, unless you really need to hear the introductions. Scahill’s @ 3.00 mins in is worth a listen though.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Uulv4ve6RJ8#at=1376

  5. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jun, 2013 - 11:48 pm

    If I were a gambler, I would put up several dollahs @ 10-1 that if trollery or other asshattery is not benefitting from this imbroglio, I will eat my three corner hat. Oh, I don’t think I understand that gambling thing….

    Just say I’ll eat my asshat.

  6. @Phil. 10 09pm

    “…I was only hectoring myself.”

    Isn’t it the natural, hard-wired, courageous and admirable male approach to a problem, to want to do something physical about it.

    I’m sure we wouldn’t be having this conversation if our young men of countless generations had not, without thinking, jumped out of their sleep and headed out to meet the big cats while women, entrusted with the future, gathered the young and moved them to safety. Samburu men do just that to this day.

    Bruce Chatwin, in “The Songlines”, had some interesting thoughts in this and much more back in 1986.

    Back to the jobs at hand.

    A “what is really so” narrative has to be one of the crucial issues if we are to course-correct. I’ve a couple of highly effective buddhist friends who have three simple practices.

    Pay attention.

    Tell it as it is.

    Practice compassion.

    Their questions enrage keepers of the Official narrative. But they refuse to treat them as enemies and seem the happier for it.

    No matter how they go about it, defenders of the old paradigm are finding it difficult to maintain once people start to check it out.

    I mean, we are being expected to swallow the notion that it’s somehow OK for national leaders to constantly use lethal, destructive force (in the name of protecting people and bringing democracy) or economic ECT (See Naomi Klein: “The Shock Doctrine”) to maintain the economic status quo.

    Out in the world, despite increasingly colossal fortunes being spent to manufacture the corporate media narratives, these are increasingly perceived as bizzare and not in the individual or society’s interests.

    It can no longer be convincingly argued that so many should be excluded from the earth’s wealth and nurturing capacity while the microscopic few have between 28 and 32 trillion dollars stashed away in tax havens. The rising tide left most of the boats underwater. Now it’s receded it only took the elites craft with it and left the rest of us high and dry.

    Milton Friedman economics is a busted flush, discredited outside the walls of the dominant banking cult but still in vogue with the Lords of the Universe, for obvious reasons.

    More and more people don’t see why their unborn kids should be saddled with the debts of corporate fraudsters. Witness the global spread of Ireland’s Anglo Irish Bank tapes.

    We are expected to accept these kind of swindles?

    Who says?

    Oh. It’s those same banksters, arms producers, generals and their political servants who profited by it all in the first place. Who can be reassured once they really get minds around that?

    Enormous mental and emotional energy is now required by comfortable conformists to stay shut in their cognitive cuckoons, eyes and minds shielded from reality out there when, increasingly , it crashes into lives all around them?

    Citizens are given bank debt, the surveillance state, pre-emptive arrests, etc and kept poor post WOT / Corporate Coup. Just how can that be defended rationally?

    Hence the sense of panic from the those who see it as their noble entitlement to enforce conformity,increasingly scraping their intellectual barrels in a vain and rather desperate attempt attempt to distract, insult and confuse.

    And of course we, who so desperately yearn for change, can forgive ourselves for loosing our cool now and then. Surely a valid response to, for example, blowing up chidren with missiles from a safe office thousands of miles away, or from an F11 thousands of feet up, is visceral disgust.

    Sometimes the language that escapes me offends and alienates. I don’t think it gets me very far, but it sure lets off steam. And Jon’s a dab hand with his zapping stick. Ouch!

    These conversations are important because they are likely to leak out of the blogosphere.

    My wish would be for change to come peacefully through increasing implementation of International Law. I’m not holding my breath on that one.

    I don’t believe the situation can be kept fossilised like this for much longer and ultimately one straw or another will turn up to break this camel’s back.

    So post on brother!
    ……………………………..

    @Ben.

    It’s the time of night to put those pokers away, put yer feet up, and get an ear-full of this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej4tKE43oOw

    Peace.

  7. Good God, Ben!!

    It’s, “Were I a gambler”

    Have you learned nothing from Habby’s lessons?

  8. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 12:08 am

    OK, Kibo. This is War….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9muzyOd4Lh8

  9. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 12:10 am

    “It’s, “Were I a gambler””

    We dun tawlk lak dat down heuah, son. Git yer culture igorance someswheres else. Gotta run now.

  10. A round up of the foreign news, the news that you are not likely to find in any of the fucking medjia you have come to rely on to keep you misinformed and ignorant.

    South Africans burn Obama’s poster

    Demonstrators expressed their opposition to Washington’s support for the Israeli regime, the killing of innocent civilians in U.S. drone strikes, and the continuing operation of the U.S.-run Guantanamo Bay prison.

    Some protesters compared the Obama administration’s support for the Israeli regime to the apartheid in South Africa.

    Moreover, activists from the Free Palestine Organization of South Africa waved Palestinian flags and carried signs that urged Obama to “Stop Funding Israeli Apartheid.”

    For their troubles informing the wider world of what is really happening; US seeks to take Press TV off air in western Afghanistan

    Press TV has learned that the US Consulate in Herat, situated more than 800 kilometers (miles) west of Kabul, has asked the cable television provider in the city to immediately remove Press TV from its platform.

    A senior official from the diplomatic mission has even met the managing director of the cable TV provider in Herat, and offered him three times more than the amount of the money paid by Press TV.

    ~~
    On June 19, Intelsat announced that it will no longer provide services to Iranian channels including Press TV. The decision has been made under the pretext of the company’s abiding by illegal sanctions against the head of the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB).

    ~~
    Press TV has learned that the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) – an agency of the US Treasury Department headed by an Ashkenazi Jew called Adam Szubin – is behind the pressure on Intelsat.

    Meanwhile back in London, there has been a demonstration around Saudi embassy in which the demonstrators have been condemning the detention and torture of women who have been kidnapped and detained whilst demonstrating in protest against the ruling regime of Saudi in the town of Buraydah in central Saudi. This is in addition to the unrest in the western provinces and along some eastern board towns of Saudi.

    Moreover Bahrainy protests are still ongoing, with demonstrations in the township of Sitra south east of the capital Manama . Those attending the protests were openly challenging the ruling regime and maintained; they no longer feared the measures taken against these demonstrators, which includes detention, torture, and disappearances. Further, the demonstrators made clear that they will carry on with their protests until such a time that the ruling regime have not stepped down and remain in Bahrain.

    Egyptian demonstrators have been burning the zionistan flags and have also unfurled a giant banner in front of the defence ministry. The banner read; the pigs and dogs of Mossad, Egyptians are united, and will not fall victim to the US tricks.

    With respect to Syrian front, two polish cargo aircraft, each carrying ninety tonnes of heavy weapons and munitions thereof have landed in Jordan, and their deadly cargo has been injected through the Jordanian border into Syria.

    The weapons transported are being transported from the Kandahar airport in Afghanistan. the bridge head set up in Kandahar through means of air as well as ground deliveries to the Jordanian and Turkish borders, is delivering weapons and ordnance into the hands of the Syrian “rebels” (the heart eating, good terrorists). The cargo is composed of Humvees equipped with rocket launchers and semi heavy weapons, as well as anti armour rockets and munitions.

    This revelation further clarifies the push for arming the “rebels” which in fact is an attempt to farm out the redundant and surplus equipment in Afghanistan theatre, into the Syrian front, in the way of aiding the “rebels” to gain an advantage in the Syrian theatre.

  11. The power of intention wins again Ben. My all time fav ‘Knights in White Satin’ by the Moody Blues. I sang this song in Singapore Brit Club and in Yokahama Japan with the band, ‘London Lights’ aboard HMS London – Cheers for the memory – Syria-the terrorists must move out; they are no longer required. The world has spoken, viva voci people are hand in hand – the terror of Iraq is a constant vision in the minds of Syrian households.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9muzyOd4Lh8

  12. @Ben.12 08pm

    Oh, for that old summer of love! You win.

    ………………..

    @Fedup. 12 23pm

    Thanks for the update.

    Goodnight all.

  13. the Stuxnet computer virus unleashed on Iran’s nuclear facilities is such a huge story, with developments this week. what could be more dangerous than meddling in this way with nuclear reactors? an interesting take here:

    Mondoweiss: Leak inquiry launched over ‘NYT’ story on American-Israeli cyberwar targeting Iran
    by Alex Kane
    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/06/launched-cyberwar-targeting.html

    the criminal behaviour of US/Israel must be stopped. international bodies are so compromised, we need another way to hold them accountable.

  14. Flaming June

    30 Jun, 2013 - 6:54 am

    Good posts from the night owls.

    The ex Goldman Sachs operative returns to London to start work at HQ. He will pick up £874,000 pa.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/a27e08f4-dec4-11e2-b990-00144feab7de.html#axzz2XfyPfpkl

    Merv goes off into the sunset for some me-time instead of doing QE-time.
    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/25/1372194446411/26.06.13-Steve-Bell-on-Me-002.jpg

  15. Flaming June

    30 Jun, 2013 - 7:00 am

    That old D notice thing rearing its ugly head again?

    http://www.newssniffer.co.uk/articles/658994/diff/1/2

  16. Flaming June

    30 Jun, 2013 - 7:09 am

  17. Flaming June, at 7:09am: This is another plank in this fundamentalist government’s plan to privatise the NHS. It’s extremely dangerous. As far as I’m concerned, they can fuck off (and that’s my official public statement on that matter).

    But sadly, most people will do as they’re told.

  18. Here’s RT’s Crosstalk on the Snowden case.

    Some fine moments of verbal slapstick in the second half as the MSM panelist insists that if Snowden had integrity he’s get himself back to the US and “go through the proper channels”.

    http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/whistleblowing-nsa-lies-law-372/

  19. Disturbing:
    “Royal Family granted new right of secrecy
    Special exemptions to be written into Freedom of Information Act”
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/royal-family-granted-new-right-of-secrecy-2179148.html

  20. I can’t see any problem with asking foreigners to meet their own medical expenses with an insurance policy. Oz, for as long as I can remember, has required visitors to have insurance. I don’t really want to ask the obvious .. but .. who is supposed to pay for the very expensive healthcare needs of people? If people are entitled to ‘free’ healthcare, surely they should be entitled to ‘free’ basic food and ‘free’ accomodation. How are these any different?

  21. Agree Suhayl. Yet another stick to beat already demoralized staff. That is the Con Dem agenda

    Mechanisms for collecting the cost of treatment from patients not entitled to NHS care already exist. Hospitals have finance departments for that purpose.

    Some of the ‘foreign patients’ aka ‘migrants’ or even ‘immigrants’, come from countries we have destroyed or pillaged incidentally so we shouldn’t be too hard on them.

    The BiBiCee said this morning that unpaid bills for treatment amount to £24m. They did not say what period was covered. I think they were quoting the Mail!

    A message here this morning from a medic I know.

    ‘Estimated cost of NHS services for foreign patients – 0.05 to 0.2% of total.

    Estimated cost of Health and Social Care Act ‘reforms’, not announced in any election manifesto – £3 billion which is roughly 3% of the total NHS budget.

    Bill for treating road trauma – £several billion. Hospitals can claim up to £1,300 from insurance companies (when I was working), when claims were settled – ie after several years. Few hospitals had the oomph or back up to follow these up. I encouraged the ‘managers’ to go for it.’

    ~~~

    And a ps. Don’t have an accident or get ill in Cornwall. Their services are in chaos. There has already been a scandal about the privatisation of their out of hours GP services with the provider altering statistics and providing poor or non existent care. Now the NHS 111 service there is in limbo –

    NHS Direct pulls out of Cornwall NHS 111 helpline
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-23113571

    and the board members of the trusts are resigning. Imagine working in the system at the moment with this scenario likely to spread round the country,

    Cornwall hospital trust chairman resigns after less than a week
    Royal Cornwall Hospital Mike Higgins said he resigned because he could not unite the hospital trust’s board

    Related Stories
    New interim health chair announced
    Chairman of hospital trust resigns
    Hospitals chief ‘distressed’ at row

    An interim chairman appointed less than a week ago at a hospital trust, after the resignation of the previous chairman, has himself resigned.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-23086746

    ~~

    Jeremy Hunt better head for the hills.

  22. If people are entitled to ‘free’ healthcare, surely they should be entitled to ‘free’ basic food and ‘free’ accomodation. How are these any different?

    Good to be in fucking Australia and waxing lyrical about bollocks as ever. what if the ill “immigrant” were to be struck with Lassa fever, Yellow fever, or any of the other contagions of highly dangerous pathogens? Yeah, hate can have awful consequences and come back to bite the hater on the arse really hard.

    Further, as your kind of Jayne Mansfield supporting fossil would not have time to learn, or begin to understand; the right to food, and the right to shelter, which ought to have been amended to the universal human rights charter, if it were not for the objections and the veto of the “freedom lovin democratic” US efforts in the UN.

    How about a far more simpler solution to your xenophobia? Stop your “governments” fucking around in the far off lands and nicking the chattel and wares of the would be immigrants? These would be “immigrants” lacking any means of supporting themselves in their own countries of origin, up sticks and set off on the road as itinerant labour prepared to do any kind of work. Included to put up with playing punch bag to the bigots and politicians alike. There seems to be a lot of pleasure derived from abusing these immigrants, by certain cretinous elements in every society. Fact that these would be “immigrants” would far rather stay with their own families and circle of friends and enjoy their lives, instead of setting off on journeys in search of jobs and a better life, because their own country has been sucked off dry by the sanctimonious bastards who keep abusing them in the first place.

    Stop meddling in other nations affairs, and let the people of the world have the opportunity of earning a livelihood in their own lands wherever these maybe. Whilst Syrians are getting “helped” to be “free and democratic”, Iraqis are too busy coping with their “freedom an democracy”, same as the Afghans, Yemenies, Libyans, Somalians, ………. there will always be a stream of vulnerable butts to be kicked by the likes of you and your mates, the suck up and kick down wankers who can hardly fight their way out of a fucking paper bag, getting pleasured playing the master race.

  23. Jemand, it depends what kind of society one wants to have. There’s always lots of money for dropping bombs on foreign people, it seems to me. People who live here or who become ill while visiting should be treated, free of charge. We all pay for one another. But whatever, I do not think that health professionals should become border guards. If they want us to start checking ID cards, insurance details, etc,. like in the USA, then the authorities can go to hell as far as I’m concerned.

  24. “If people are entitled to ‘free’ healthcare, surely they should be entitled to ‘free’ basic food and ‘free’ accomodation. How are these any different?”

    No different.

    They are entitled to those as well.

  25. *

    Hospital doctors announce decision to ignore the Ministry of Health directive and to continue treating undocumented migrants

    Prior to the May 6th elections, the minister of health, Loverdos, announced undocumented migrants were to no longer receive any treatment in public hospitals in Greece. In response, hospital doctors issued, through their union body, the following statement

    source in greek

    Doctors: “We will treat undocumented migrants. No to Loverdos’ credentials to the [Nazis of the] Golden Dawn!”

    http://blog.occupiedlondon.org/2012/05/17/hospital-doctors-announce-decision-to-ignore-the-ministry-of-health-directive-and-to-continue-treating-undocumented-migrants/

  26. Thanks, Fedup. Well argued with not a scintilla of sneering, psychotic rage and inane hostility. *hug*

    Suhayl, you said medical care should be “free” and then say “we all pay for one another”. May I suggest that both statements are incorrect. Inasmuch as you acknowledged that it is not indeed “free” but must be paid for and also that the burden of the cost is not equally or universally distributed.

    Furthermore, this issue has nothing to do with dropping bombs, directly, although the misallocation of resources does in fact impact on the quality of social services such as healthcare. When it comes to issues of finance, we can look at all wasteful expenses and say that they have the same financial impacts – ie money is fungible.

    I also think it is an exaggeration to say that health professionals will be required to act as border guards any more than bus conductors are tax collectors. They have a responsibility to account for their services and not simply bill the public for “free” delivery of unprovided services to anonymous or fictitious patients.

    Like I have said previously, if you all want to impose a moral obligation on yourselves to meet the burden of improving the lives of others, then you’d better back up your moral posturing with the means of delivering on your promises. Otherwise, you’re just writing blank cheques that bounce.

    PS – the above exchange is another example of conflating personal preference with observation and extrapolating all sorts of nasty character traits.

  27. Flaming June 30 Jun, 2013 – 10:41 am
    “Jeremy Hunt better head for the hills.”

    Yes he had. The (refreshingly radical?) pensioners group DAGE are so angry that Hunt will not talk to them they are organising a coach trip to visit him at home.

    DAGE broadcast on resonance. They are on at 14:00 today. It’s great radio.

    http://www.resonancefm.com

  28. Cornwall again. Poor man. Hope he has entitlement to NHS care and treatment. If not I hope he had his credit card handy as he was stretchered in, just like in Amerika (and Australia I believe?).

    Prussia Cove cliff fall man airlifted to hospitalA man has been airlifted to hospital after falling from cliffs in Cornwall.

    The man, who is in his 30s, fell about 35ft (11m) at Prussia Cove near Porthleven on Saturday evening.

    Falmouth Coastguard co-ordinated the rescue involving a helicopter from RNAS Culdrose and the Penzance coastguard team.

    The man was flown to Derriford Hospital in Plymouth with serious, but not life-threatening, injuries.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-23117205#

    ~~~

    The next move will be to exclude NHS patients from care if the injuries arise from sport or leisure activities.

  29. So while the government is throwing disabled people out of their homes for having a bedroom too many they have given the security services a 3% above inflation rise in their £1.9 billion budget.

  30. Thanks Phil I will try to catch it later.
    http://resonancefm.com/schedule

    The Lewisham hospital group who have their A&E and maternity services threatened have a ‘Hunt for Hunt’ campaign going, They recently went down to Farnham in Surrey, which is in his constituency, to beard him in his den.

    He picked up the poisoned chalice fron Lansley who now sits on the Front Bench organising the business. Milton, one of Lansley’s ministers, has been made a junior Whip, Burns has gone to Transport and the useless Burstow was kicked out of the government. He has the chutzpah now to concern himself with planned hospital closures in his constituency, afraid that he might lose his seat on the gravy train come 2015. I called him useless but he was not useless to his masters, at whose bidding he aided the imposition of the H&SC Act 2012 on the populace.

    Couldn’t make it up.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/9528849/Paul-Burstow-criticises-dangerous-and-flawed-plans-to-close-hospitals-after-being-sacked-as-a-health-minister.html

  31. Flaming June 30 Jun, 2013 – 12:17 pm
    “They recently went down to Farnham in Surrey, which is in his constituency, to beard him in his den.”

    OK that’s presumably what I heard DAGE talking about. Great stuff.

  32. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 12:42 pm

    Jemand’s posts are convincing and he has had the better of his critics – the post at 11h30 is especially hard-hitting and, I think, unanswerable by any reasonably same person who approaches the matter with an open mind rather with the intent of sumply seeking to find fault in every single thing the UK govt. does.

    While on the subject, I refer to the following, posted at 10h41:

    “Mechanisms for collecting the cost of treatment from patients not entitled to NHS care already exist. Hospitals have finance departments for that purpose.”
    ________

    If that is the case, what is the poster complaining about wrt to these tightening up measures? And secondly, yes, there are finance departments, who seem unable, inter alia, to recover a deal of money from people who’ve had treatment and then buggered off abroad again.

  33. “if you all want to impose a moral obligation on yourselves to meet the burden of improving the lives of others” – we already have this obligation. It’s called ‘humanity’. It’s also, as Suhayl points out, entirely selfish: we all share the benefits.

    Of course, if you’d rather have a system where the efforts of the many increasingly and disproportionately benefit a very rich few (feudalism, I believe it used to be called, or slavery), then you seem to be in tune with government thinking.

    “then you’d better back up your moral posturing with the means of delivering on your promises” – syntactical confusion aside (is ‘posturing’ the same as ‘promising’?) are you really trying to address this to a doctor, among other people?

  34. Why on earth should we pay for these bloody foreigners to get free healthcare when its so much more efficient to bomb them to smithereens in their own lands?

    And its for their own good of course.How else would they receieve Freedom and Democracy??

    I jest,tragically,of course.

  35. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 1:20 pm

    “Cornwall again. Poor man. Hope he has entitlement to NHS care and treatment. If not I hope he had his credit card handy…”

    (post at 12h02 from she whose name one should apparently not mention)
    ____________

    He will most certainly have entitlement if he is lawfully resident in the UK or a bona fide visitor.

    Most govts advise their citizens to take out insurance when travelling abroad to top up medical cover and to ensure that treatment where required is financially affordable.

    Hope this clarifies.

  36. doug scorgie

    30 Jun, 2013 - 1:20 pm

    Phil
    29 Jun, 2013 – 1:09 pm

    “So, what do you think of Left Unity? I am no particular fan of Loach but considering the labour party is lost, is this the only game in town?”

    You could be right Phil but without the financial backing of the unions I fear it will fail.

  37. Well done. As usual, emotional resonance takes precedence over logical coherence – because it feels good.

    An intellectually poor attempt was made to falsely imply that I am advocating a bad system over a good one. If I am going to advocate for any particular system, it would be one that simultaneously delivers high quality health care and is fully paid for. Not one that promises quality and then delivers excuses because of financial problems.

    But the reality is too much to bear for fantasists. You can spend your whole GDP on health care and people will still be sick and dying. How do you explain that? 

    Dream on dreamers, and whinge and whine all you like because you can’t change a basic fact of humanity – we don’t work for “free”.

  38. Flaming June

    30 Jun, 2013 - 1:38 pm

    ‘….we don’t work for “free”.’

    You would be surprised at how many people in the UK work for free, either as volunteers or actually in employment on rock bottom wages. Have you heard of workfare?

  39. “we don’t work for “free”..

    We can. All that is required is evolution in our consciousness. Dollars destroy everything. An RBE will hold back our end of life.

  40. doug scorgie

    30 Jun, 2013 - 1:46 pm

    Flaming June
    29 Jun, 2013 – 5:59 pm

    “I am sending it to my MP, who is a Conservative, with a plea to Cameron not to supply further arms or weaponry to the rebels.”

    Take care Mary:

    “The Malicious Communications Act. That Act, from 1988, says that someone who sends another person material which is grossly offensive or indecent and is sent in order to cause the recipient distress or anxiety is guilty of an offence. The offence can apply to letters, email and other forms of communication.”

    http://www.out-law.com/page-7803

  41. Good luck with your system of volunteer doctors, nurses, anaesthetists, orderlies, cleaners, technicians, administrators, ambulance drivers etc etc. I should imagine service quality will improve with having volunteers too.

    Obviously you will save some money by eliminating the accounts department, obviated by your “free” system of health care for anonymous patients because everything is “free” and service delivery cannot be traced to an end user. I think astronomers call that a ‘black hole’.

  42. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 2:00 pm

    “emotional resonance takes precedence over logical coherence – because it feels good.”

    please demonstrate the ‘illogicality’: please also clear up your syntactical confusion earlier?

    nothing necessarily wrong in ‘feeling good’ by the way – as your like-minded poster, Habbakuk is consistently underlining. Of course, since life is nuanced, it all depends on what makes you ‘feel ood’: I wouldn’t advise it for a psychopath.

    “Not one that promises quality and then delivers excuses because of financial problems” – do you know anything about the appropriation of NHS funding by managers and PFI schemes? I think you cannot. Please read up.

    “But the reality is too much to bear for fantasists. You can spend your whole GDP on health care and people will still be sick and dying. How do you explain that?”

    Is this meant to be logical? People will always get sick and, yes, we will all die. The issue under discussion was the refusal of medical intervention to a certain section of people: the Greek doctors in the link I gave above had a word for them. Incidentally, I admire the conflation of doctors and bus conductors earlier: have met many decent bus conductors who have let poor people on without paying. Less able to do so now, of course, thanks to surveillance by much richer people, who one rarely sees on public transport.

  43. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 2:01 pm

    correction ‘good’.

  44. doug scorgie

    30 Jun, 2013 - 2:03 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    29 Jun, 2013 – 8:50 pm

    “Doug Scorgie. 1.58pm Radonski Caprile is a bad loser.”

    “Thank you for reminding us that the full name of the losing candidate in the recent Presidential election in Venezuela is “Radonski Caprile”.

    Playing games again HB.
    You “forgot” to state that the message you referred to was from Flaming June but implying it was from me.

    My post:
    doug scorgie
    29 Jun, 2013 – 1:58 pm

    The Venezuelan right-wing only accepts democracy if they win:
    “As part of ongoing attempts to prevent President Nicolas Maduro from consolidating his leadership in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, right-wing forces at home and abroad have reissued false claims that he was born in neighboring Colombia.”

    http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/9771
    You have to laugh really.

    June’s post:
    Flaming June
    29 Jun, 2013 – 6:13 pm

    “Doug Scorgie. 1.58pm Radonski Caprile is a bad loser.”

    You’re not as clever as I thought you were HB and you underestimate people on this blog.

  45. Were the parasitic elites not continually fleecing us, there’d be plenty to go around.

    A system which is little more than skimming, numbers and protection rackets should not be expected to provide good outcomes.

  46. Another heart-wrenching, gut-churning glimpse of our Uzbek “friends”

    Indie Article

    Letter to our Dave

  47. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 2:17 pm

    Jemand: George Monbiot’s The Captive State v good on the insane and destructive extortion created by PFI hospital schemes, also Alyson Pollock, Private Eye etc etc etc.

  48. doug scorgie

    30 Jun, 2013 - 2:20 pm

    Nevermind
    29 Jun, 2013 – 11:13 pm

    “I’m appalled at the impotence of the UN and the ease by which its various hands are being corrupted and bend over to suit crooks.”

    I have no doubt that all the senior UN officials have been spied on and blackmailed by the west’s security services. That is how they operate.

  49. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 2:25 pm

    @ Doug Scorgie :

    My sentence read as follows :

    “Thank you for reminding us that the full name of the losing candidate in the recent Presidential election in Venezuela is “Radonski Caprile”.”
    _____________

    From where do you deduce that the “you” in this sentence referred to you and not to Flaming June/Mary?

    As my post quoted the first line of Mary’s, I think most normal readers would probably be able to figure out to whom my comment was addressed. But do please tell us why you think otherwise (if you “could be arsed” to do so, of course).

  50. ‘The issue under discussion was the refusal of medical intervention to a certain section of people’

    Trans- The issue under discussion is whether the delivery of healthcare in the UK should be via a ‘National Heath Service’ (as recommended by Jemand) or via an ‘International Health Service open to all comers(as recommended by FedUP, Technicolour and any other Mrs Jellaby thinkalikes on this thread).

  51. doug scorgie

    30 Jun, 2013 - 2:35 pm

    Flaming June
    30 Jun, 2013 – 7:00 am

    That old D notice thing rearing its ugly head again?

    http://www.newssniffer.co.uk/articles/658994/diff/1/2

    Well spotted Mary

  52. Habby’s post to which Doug refers above is reproduced in full below.

    Thanks, Doug.

    You’ve not only exposed an attempted subterfuge but even more dishonesty in the attempt to cover it up.

    What sort of character does things like this?

    Can we please be rid of it, once and for all!!

    =================================================================================

    “Doug Scorgie. 1.58pm Radonski Caprile is a bad loser.”
    _____________

    Thank you for reminding us that the full name of the losing candidate in the recent Presidential election in Venezuela is “Radonski Caprile”.

    Well, except that it’s actually CaprileS (father’s surname) Radonski (mother’s surname).

    Given the attachment some commenters have to giving Mr Capriles his full name,I am somewhat surprised that they have never referred to the winner, commonly known as Mr Nicolas Maduro, as Mr Nicolas Maduro Moros. Could it be that the part-surname “Radonski” is of particular significance for them?

    ****************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/pandering-to-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-415456

    ====================================================================================

  53. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 2:48 pm

    “International Health Service open to all comers as recommended by…”: I’ve been responding. Much depends on what the government categorise as ’emergency treatment’, but in the meantime it seems a move of intellectual paucity, financial triviality and an appeal to knee-jerk prejudices.

  54. Uzbeks tortured me, says British Embassy man

    Former Foreign Office employee says he has been abandoned, despite refusing to spy on UK

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uzbeks-tortured-me-says-british-embassy-man-8679979.html

  55. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 2:54 pm

    Imagine you are a doctor, and someone arrives with a suppurating eye infection. It might not be a life-threatening emergency: it is, however, agonising, debilitating and easily cured. Are others on this board seriously suggesting that that doctor should refuse to treat them?

  56. Ah, so FJ is Mary. The need for aliases is awful perplexing.

    At least this posters penchant to bombarded us with off topic, offensive, hateful statements makes sense now.

  57. ‘Are others on this board seriously suggesting that that doctor should refuse to treat them?’

    Of course not. If the person presenting with such a condition is an EEA national, reciprocal treatment rights should apply. If the person is from another 1st world country (NZ., Japan etc) their travel insurance should cover the cost of treatment. If the person is from a country known to have a high propensity of its nationals to be visa overstayers, the proposed £3000 bond would be forfeited in whole of in part, to pay for the treatment.

    Enough shroud waving already !

  58. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:15 pm

    ah, ‘make Mary the topic time’. I see.

  59. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:16 pm

    Old mark: thanks. What if they are Somali?

  60. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:16 pm

    Remember when Wikileaks released the US diplomatic cables ’embarassing’ Hillary?

    “Der Spiegel reported that the US had bugged offices and gained access to EU internal computer networks, according to secret documents, the latest in a series of exposures of alleged US spying.

    The magazine quoted from a “top secret” US National Security Agency (NSA) document from September 2010 that it said former NSA contractor Edward Snowden had taken with him, and which its journalists had seen in part.

    Der Spiegel said the document outlines how the NSA bugged offices and spied on EU internal computer networks in Washington and at the UN, listening to conversations and phone calls and gaining access to documents and emails. It said the document explicitly called the EU a target.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/30/us-clarification-us-spying-nsa

  61. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:30 pm

    I didn’t see that Der Spiegel was specifically targeted.

    “The prospects for a new trade pact between the US and the European Union worth hundreds of billions have suffered a severe setback following allegations that Washington bugged key EU offices and intercepted phonecalls and emails from top officials.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/30/nsa-spying-europe-claims-us-eu-trade

  62. Flaming June

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:30 pm

    Thousands and thousands of Egyptians are in Tahrir Square. They do not like Shillary’s stooge, Morsi. 22 million people have signed a petition demanding that he ‘step down’.

    Egypt protest: Thousands stage anti-Morsi rallieshttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23115821

    Bowen has just been on giving his two pennorth. ‘Deteriorating conditions in Eqypt are leading to this unrest. Unemployment is high and the young especially feel discontented at the lack of dialogue.’

    Now when and where else have we been hearing that?

    ~~~

    Cameron pledges to ‘stand together’ with Pakistan on terrorism’. Any Pakistani people surviving Obomber’s drone attacks will probably be able to ‘stand’ too. Now he’s in Kazakhstan on a trade (arms?) mission.

    Perhaps he will pick up some tips from Nazarbayev for success at the polls in 2015.

    ‘On April 3, 2011 he was again elected President of the Republic of Kazakhstan supported by 95.5 per cent of electors.’ Wow! He must be popular.

    No irony in the Guardian headline. B.Liar is on a retainer isn’t he?

    Kazakhstan praises Cameron and Blair for helping improving country’s image
    As he flies into central Asian republic, British PM says he will raise Kazakhstan’s poor human rights record with its president
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/30/kazakhstan-cameron-blair-human-rights

  63. Flaming June

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:36 pm

    ‘The CE’ needs to wake up. Bit slow on the uptake there. And a rather garbled message.

    CE? ? Any of these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE

  64. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:41 pm

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323419604578571601908964678.html?mod=wsj_share_tweet

    “But in the note, Mr. Assange also offered public-relations advice to top Ecuadorean officials about how to handle the crisis. Mr. Assange’s earlier efforts on Mr. Snowden’s behalf had prompted one diplomat to caution that Mr. Assange could be perceived as “running the show” in Ecuador.”

    I’m sure someone seeks to stoke the fire of power for their own purposes. Kerry undoubtedly cited numerous ‘disadvantages’ to giving asylum.

  65. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:44 pm

    “I’m shocked….shocked to see there’s gambling going on here”

    http://www.juancole.com/2013/06/collects-internet-connections.html

  66. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:50 pm

    Herbie; I was half-way through cocktail time last eve and my reply to you could be misunderstood.

    Cheers.

  67. doug scorgie

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:59 pm

    Flaming June
    30 Jun, 2013 – 7:09 am

    Medics recruited to join UK Border Agency.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1109710/nhs-tourism-govt-to-announce-crackdown

    Mary, this is complete bullshit by the government; it is another “knock the foreigners” political ploy.

    I will return to this subject later when I get time.

  68. I made a rather poor joke, Ben, and you were very tolerant in reply.

    Thanks.

  69. Flaming June

    30 Jun, 2013 - 4:38 pm

    An invitation here to join a party to celebrate the 65th birthday of the NHS.

    5th July 2013 2pm
    Trafford General Hospital, Urmston, Manchester M41 5SL

    http://unite.newsweaver.co.uk/1s88loxzbd9voxu9d3q2j0?
    email=true&a=11&p=37346335

    As it says –

    We are celebrating 65 years of our NHS – the greatest social benefit of any government – but our message is serious.

    If we don’t act to save it – we will lose it.

    The coalition government’s pro-privatisation NHS shake up coupled with a multi-billion pound funding squeeze is putting our NHS at grave risk.

    Local communities are losing A&E units, hospital beds, maternity wards, and other NHS services. Waiting queues are growing, rationing is rife and, staff not sacked, are being overstretched to breaking point.

    Picking up the pieces are private companies who are set to make billions of pounds from our health.

    Join us to help celebrate our brilliant

  70. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 4:42 pm

    @ Mary/April Showers/Flaming June/…? :

    No chance that The CE was being gently ironical, I suppose?

    Nah, you wouldn’t know irony if it slapped you in the face :)

  71. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 4:55 pm

    @ Technicolour

    “Old mark: thanks. What if they are Somali?
    _______________

    I think Old Mark has dealt with your question rather well. I hope you’re happy!

    And now let’s cut through your clever-clever stuff and get serious.

    What would you – yes, you, Technicolour – suggest

    1) should be done to prevent illegal immigration

    2) should be done with over-stayers if they’re discovered.

    My questions assume, of course, that you are not in favour of illegal immigration.

  72. “But the reality is too much to bear for fantasists. You can spend your whole GDP on health care and people will still be sick and dying. How do you explain that? ”

    That’s easy, the death rate never changes, it’s one per person, always has been.

    The problem is that the health system isn’t designed to cure people who are ill any more, it is designed to make the shareholders of large drug companies, including the ones sitting in the House of Commons, rich.

    The drug companies invent a new drug then they invent a new disease for it to cure then invent a new drug to counteract the side effects.

    If they just stop handing over so much of our money to rich drug companies there will be plenty left for curing people who are actually ill.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1369125/

  73. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 5:16 pm

    Habbakuk – thanks for the intervention. But I think I’ll wait for Old Mark to actually reply to my question; only polite, you know.

  74. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 5:17 pm

    btw “You didn’t like Mubarak very much (he was an American stooge). And now you don’t seem to like Morsi very much either – apparently he’s an American stooge as well” – absolutely!¬Well spotted!

  75. “I know you’re busy with other ‘scoops’.”

    Yes, like this one perhaps. Dedicated to Flaming June, soon to return as Mary, or perhaps Hotter than July? :

    Cost of updating Parliament toilets to be £100,000

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23117369

  76. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 5:20 pm

  77. Thanks for that from Egypt June, another sucker who has been exposed for taking the piss with the aspirations of young Egyptians. I eminent Egyptian scholars and Professors warn of impending civil war, with sectarian divides further blurring the lines of accountability and lawful judicial discourse.

    Villager’s amourous chit chat with Habby here, their common love to verbalise what their posts produce, is all beginning to look like a happy ending is near, when is the date?

    How about the 4th July, such fitting special day for all global lovers of freedom and democracy via the barrel of a gun, I’m sure people will come. Don’t worry about the beads and wind chimes along the isle, it’ll be fine.

  78. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 6:29 pm

    ‘Villager’s amourous chit chat with Habby here, their common love to verbalise what their posts produce, is all beginning to look like a happy ending is near, when is the date?’

    oh for heaven’s sake.

  79. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 6:36 pm

    @ Technicolour

    Never mind Nevermind, he can’t help it. Too many high altitude flights with defective equipment. Oxygen starvation. Terrible thing, you know.

  80. Fred, the pharmaceuticals industry is very much part of the bigger problem of health care economics. And I think several factors make this so.

    Having said that, modern medicine is remarkably new (~130yrs) and in due course, many of the essential pharmaceuticals developed in the last 50 years will fall in price as patents expire leading to competition.

  81. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 6:39 pm

    I have a happy vision of several people who commonly insult each other on this board ensconced together in a pub and laughing uproariously. Cheeky monkeys 😉

  82. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 6:40 pm

    Did you look up PFI yet, Jemand?

  83. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 6:41 pm

    @ Villager :

    “Hotter than July” !! Precious!!!!! :)

    Alpha plus for that one!

  84. @Jives. 1 19pm

    “…its so much more efficient to bomb them to smithereens in their own lands?”

    Not only pissed off but also off-piste again.

    Surely it is simply an issue of how we frame the action of dropping high explosives and depleted uranium to save lives and improve everything in far off dictatorships.

    Think not of bombs but of “seeds of democracy” and voila, the issue is suddenly resolved!

  85. Flaming June

    30 Jun, 2013 - 7:02 pm

    Is there a collective noun for trolls?

  86. And anyway once those nasty dictators start thinking about alternative currencies, domestic oil revenues, greening deserts and the like, the next thing you know they’ll be independent of the western sphere of influence. Perish the thought.

    Our leaders have difficult decisions to make and sometimes they have to be cruel to be kind. It doesn’t help them when you criticise everything they do.

  87. “Villager’s amourous (sic) ….

    How about the 4th July, such fitting special day (sic) for all global lovers of freedom and democracy via the barrel of a gun, I’m sure people will come.”

    Never-a-mind sounds like you’re a bit lonely and need to come. :-) Sure you’re on the right website here?

    Btw, just a tip (pun intended), under new regulations (which expressly include failed-foreign-petty-politicians) in case you don’t sort out your English, you may not be entitled to your benefits.

    GET TO WORK!

  88. FJ. 7 02pm

    It’s trolls.

  89. On topic.

    Reginald D. hunter on racism (1 06mins)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg6CTFwOalc

  90. Flaming June

    30 Jun, 2013 - 7:38 pm

    Unusual to find words like these from one of the stenographers– to-power.

    The British – supine to the last when it comes to America – are of course silent.

    It’s Alex Thomson on Channel 4 News’ Snowmail who engages in the usual derisory descriptions of Edward Snowden….fugitive…mole…

    ‘Anger grows over claims NSA bugged EU offices

    Astonishing language being fired off by senior European politicians at the USA tonight – not least by the Germans. ‘Abhorrent’, ‘disgusting’, ‘treating us like the enemy’, ‘Cold War tactics’, ‘like the Stasi’ are just some of the accusations being levelled at Washington if it is proven they have indeed been spying on EU offices. Well – they pretty much seem to have been spying on everyone and everything else – if the tip-offs by the still-stranded Mr Snowden are reliable.

    US and EU reaction appears to confirm that the leaks from the fugitive intelligence officer to Der Spiegel magazine are indeed reliable, with the documents to back them up, according to the magazine. The resulting language is the like of which we have not seen being traded across the Atlantic in many a long year.

    The British – supine to the last when it comes to America – are of course silent. Not so the Germans and others. Not so at all.

    For now US President Barack Obama – who has been caught out as a devotee of interfering with people’s communications up to and including diplomats and journalists before now – seems to think the only game in town is apprehending Mr Snowden.

    Pretty soon he is going to have to deal with what the mole has leaked, rather than the simple (and as yet quite ineffective) manhunt for the leaker. Jane Dodge has been digging.’

    ex Medialens

  91. Kibo, consider my last post to you on the UN thread (good omen) as an olive branch. Please understand, my essential quarrel was not with you (by definition) personally but with the lack of attention to the issue in moderation, given the rapidly deteriorating situation at the time on the blog overall. In the spirit of Technicolour’s comment above i’d be quite happy to share a bowl of noohdles with you sometime.

  92. ‘Trollers’ Mary – ‘Fishing’ for interpersonal conflict and shock-value controversy by those predisposed to antagonism.

  93. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 8:59 pm

    Well said Mark. Free speech has it’s limits in the US. You can’t falsely yell ‘FIRE’ in a crowded theater.

  94. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jun, 2013 - 9:04 pm

    June; I saw this morning that Der Spiegel was specifically targeted. This is no Benghazi kerfluffle.

  95. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 9:11 pm

  96. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 9:11 pm

    (sorry)

  97. “Did you look up PFI yet, Jemand?”

    No, sorry. I’m busy having an interesting conversation with my cat.

    Can you look it up and get back to me with the gist of it? 

    Thanks.

  98. technicolour

    30 Jun, 2013 - 9:13 pm

    Ah, Jemand, and I was trying to take your comments as though they were being made by someone who was worth responding too, and/or knew what they were on about. Please accept my apologies. In all seriousness, I do realise that cats are more fun than facts :)

  99. You misunderstand Technicolour. What I mean is that conversing with my cat is more informative and interesting than engaging with you. I thought you would have understood that.

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