I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
Pink
“Some of these factors coalesced in Malaysia becoming a quiet but essential logistical hub for Islamic terrorists, from those with global designs like al-Qaeda to regional groups with more local ambitions like Jemaah Islamiyah. On January 4 and 5, 2000, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi arrived at Kuala Lumpur International Airport and headed directly to Cheras, a suburb of the capital city in neighboring Selangor state”.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LI11Ae01.html
From 2010
@ James 8.31pm
And the “attempt” on the DHL (?) cargo plane (for Life Insurance).
Just to name but two
I posted this earlier today on David Icke:-
Just by coincidence I am currently watching a NatGeo programme ‘Air Crash Investigation’ about Federal Express Flight 705 to SFO in 1994 a cargo plane being hijacked by a Flight Engineer facing termination of employment because of irregularities in reporting of flight hours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705
The hijacker brutally attacked the 3 man crew and injured them all, whilst one of the crew fought the highjacker in the cockpit doorway, the badly injured co-pilot raised the nose of the aircraft and climbed, a DC-10 which ejected the 2 fighting men back down the aircraft away from the cockpit. The co-pilot then flipped the plane over far more than the recommended limit of 60 degrees to an angle of 140 degrees. Any further and he would have suffered from lack of vision. This meant the 2 that were still fighting were doing so on the ceiling of the cabin.
The crew member called for help and the co-pilot who had finally managed to contact air-traffic control in this window, settled the plane down and put it onto auto-pilot, however flying away from their new planned landing in Memphis.
The removed all weapons from the vicinity of the hijacker and the pilot took over controls unaware they werent flying towards the runway at Memphis. He was aware that they would be trying to land severely overloaded, however the switches to dump fuel were out of reach at the engineers position.
Before the flight had taken off the hijacker had twice turned off the Cockpit Voice Recorder but each time the co-pilot spotted it was incorrectly in the off position.
There are certainly enough similarities to MH370 and if the hijacker had only had 2 crew to overcome the plane could have remained in autopilot heading in whatever direction the plane had been on after the aerobatics using the aircraft to attempt to allow the hijacker to be overpowered.
20 years on could an engineer have been on board flight MH370 and been turning off the Transponder, ACARS etc.
As is the pattern with modern airliners the B777 is flown by two pilots and there is no flight engineer. On a passenger flight the captain ought to be able to expect help from the cabin crew or sky marshall (if carried) and even the passengers to subdue anybody trying to make trouble.
So far we really have very few clues as to what happened on board MH 370 and won’t until the aircraft or it’s wreckage is found and the CVR and flight recorder recovered. Until then everything is just idle speculation.
Straw44berry
I think Kempe just answered that.
I can only add that the “flight engineer” on MH307 was likely an “mechanic”.
Also he worked in private aviation, so likely Gulfstreams, Globals, etc….
He “could” have had working knowledge of “comms” (ACARS, SATCOM and so on) and he could have had flight training (pure speculation of course) BUT I doubt he could have taken control of a Triple 7 “bang on” the hand over (one controller to another) and then turned the aircraft “straight down” the horizontal separation.
You have to remember that there were likely “four” controllers that didn’t know which was in control ! AND add in “two” military controllers monitoring that airspace that would think “one” of the “four” had this aircraft under control !
THAT is some doing.
Ben and Co
You’ll Love this Theory Lol
‘Black Hole’ Theory for Missing Malaysia Flight 370? CNN Anchor Actually Asks
“I know it’s preposterous, but is it preposterous, do you think, Mary?” Lemon asked Mary Schiavo, former inspector general of the U.S. Department of Transportation.
Schiavo wasted no time. “It is. A small black hole would suck in our entire universe, so we know it’s not that. The Bermuda Triangle is often weather and ‘Lost’ is a TV show.”
Today (March 20), Australian maritime officials released new DigitalGlobe satellite photos that show potential debris from the missing jet, offering a new focus for the search teams. It bears mentioning that should a real black hole actually materialize anywhere near Earth, the odds of its massive gravitational influence going unnoticed by astronomers around the world are, well, astronomical.
“It is. A small black hole would suck in our entire universe,
WHO Are These People..FFS
http://www.space.com/25161-black-hole-theory-missing-malaysia-jet.html?cmpid=514630_20140321_20475614
Brian Fujisan…
They are American !
Fox News took a several days to realise Malaysia was “mainly Muslim”.
….AND they were actually shocked !
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10714907/Revealed-the-final-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html
Transcript of flight DH370.
…..and it sounds very sloppy to me.
The note confirms it is a Mandarin to English translation.
So that’s English (the original) to Mandarin and back to English.
Maybe that’s why it sounds “sloppy”.
The “media” report that “experts find nothing wrong” with these comms.
No idea who the “experts” are. But they must be crackers.
If (IF) that is the “proper” transcript.
And if (IF) the (a) pilot(s) are not involved.
And if (IF) there was no “catastrophic” failure of the aircraft….
….then I wonder if they were hijacked whilst “on the ground”.
Just (yet another) possibility.
Mind you…. it would seem that ATC at KUL likes to keep pilots guessing !
The weather there can change quite drastically.
Storms can roll in. So you’d think for them (ATC) they be on the ball.
But can anyone tell me what the surface winds direction and speed was at KUL when MH307 was Cleared For Takeoff ???????
I’m f***ed if I know from that transcript !
The Malaysians are being over-maligned regarding wasting time on the original search, rather than shifting sooner to the current location west of Australia. A lone commentator on CNN agrees. They could not have devoted resources until supplied with satellite pics of the two pieces of debris at the southern end of one of two vast arcs.
Now that those have not yet been located, we’re told they probably sunk, so as not to embarrass the West, something no one mentioned re the search based on Chinese satellite pics. Another expert doubts the new pics, because the objects are too large; if the wings broke off and fuel tanks were empty the pieces would not float flat, but vertically like an iceberg with the lightest end above water.
The following timeline is from:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/specialreports/mh370/news/timeline-the-hunt-for/1042818.html
POSTED: 20 Mar 2014 20:43
With bits in [ ] interleaved from The Guardian and Malaysian Airlines. Note that times may not agree and days may be off by one. This will clarify matters or add to total confusion. My point being that Malaysia couldn’t start the Indian Ocean search until around March 15th when experts agreed on the Inmarsat data and a smaller search area until around March 20th when they had satellite pics of debris.
SATURDAY, MARCH 8
— The Boeing 777 takes off from Kuala Lumpur, bound for Beijing, at 12:41am. It vanishes from Malaysian civilian radar at 1:30am, just before passing to Vietnamese air traffic control. It blips on military radars until 2:15am, but that sighting is only identified later as flight MH370.
TUESDAY, MARCH 11
— The search area now includes land on the Malaysian peninsula itself, the waters off its west coast, and an area to the north of Indonesia’s Sumatra island — all far removed from the flight’s scheduled route.
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 12
— Malaysia expands the search zone again to include the Malacca Strait off its west coast and the Andaman Sea north of Indonesia, hundreds of kilometres away.
[Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html
[“Friday, March 21, 05:30 PM MYT: I would like to briefly discuss the processing of the Inmarsat data. The investigations team received the complete raw Inmarsat satellite data which included the six handshakes at approximately 15:00 on Wednesday 12th March. This type of data is not normally used in investigations of this sort. It is only because we have so little other information to go on in this difficult and unprecedented situation that the data is being used.”]
THURSDAY, MARCH 13
— Chinese satellite images of suspected debris in the South China Sea are found to be yet another false lead.
[Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
[“Initial results were received on Thursday 13th March at approximately 13:30, but it was agreed by the US team and the investigations team that further refinement was needed, so the data was again sent back to the US.”]
FRIDAY, MARCH 14
— The hunt spreads west to the Indian Ocean after the White House cites unspecified “new information” that the jet may have flown on after losing contact.
[Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
[“The results were received at approximately 14:30 on Friday 14th March, and presented to the investigations team at a high-level meeting at 21:00 on Friday. The UK AAIB, who had also been processing this data independently, presented their results – which concurred with ours and those of the US team – at that meeting.”]
SATURDAY, MARCH 15
— Satellite data [Inmarsat] now places the jet anywhere on one of two huge arcs — a northern one stretching into Central Asia and a southern one swooping deep into the Indian Ocean. The search in the South China Sea is called off.
[Guardian]
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/18/-sp-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-how-the-search-has-unfolded-day-by-day
[Sat 15 Mar: … the plane’s communications systems had been deliberately turned off and that the jet had seemingly flown on for another six hours after contact was lost… while the transponder and Acars data system were turned off early in the flight, the plane communicated with satellite seven hours after it took off… The satellite communication could only determine that the plane took one of two huge flight corridors following its last confirmed location at 2.15am a week before over the Malacca strait.]
[Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
[“The Prime Minister was briefed on this satellite information at 08:00 Saturday 15th March, and publicly announced it at the press conference at Saturday lunchtime. Search and rescue operations were immediately shifted to the northern and southern corridor.”]
SUNDAY, MARCH 16
— Malaysia announces that the number of countries involved in the search has jumped from 14 to 26.
[Guardian: Mon 18 Mar: While the last signal from the Acars data communication system came earlier, at 1.07am, it was not due to transmit again until 30 minutes later, Hishammuddin, the interim transport minister, told reporters, meaning that could have seemingly been turned off at any point before 1.37am.]
TUESDAY, MARCH 18
— Australian and US surveillance planes begin combing 600,000 square kilometres (230,000 square miles) of the remote Indian Ocean in the southern search corridor.
— The total search area now encompasses an area bigger than Australia, Malaysia says.
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 19
— The massive 26-country search appears bogged down in coordination problems, with some ships and surveillance planes sitting idle pending clearance to enter foreign waters and airspace.
— In a further sign of miscommunication, the Thai air force reveals that its military radar had picked up what appeared to be flight MH370 just minutes after it was diverted.
THURSDAY, MARCH 20
— Australia says satellites have spotted two objects — one estimated at 24 metres (79 feet) long — in the southern Indian Ocean. Officials in both Australia and Malaysia says the imagery is “credible” but caution that it shows nothing definitive yet.
James, I’m in full agreement with you about the manifest, the Lithium batteries are a red herring.
This is well worth a read,do not tell me nothing showed up on their radar the night of MH370 disappearance,the very fact no one is questioning & pestering them stinks to high heaven;
‘Diego Garcia is one of the five control bases for the Global Positioning System, operated by the United States military.
The United States Air Force operates a High Frequency Global Communications System transceiver site located on the south end of the atoll near the GEODSS station. The transceiver is operated remotely from Joint Base Andrews and locally maintained by NCTS FE personnel.
Naval Computer and Telecommunications Station Far East Detachment Diego Garcia operates a detachment in Diego Garcia.
This detachment provides base telephone communications, provides base network services (Local Network Services Center), pier connectivity services, an AN/GSC-39C SHF satellite terminal, operates the Hydroacoustic Data Acquisition System, and performs on-site maintenance for the remotely operated Air Force HF-GCS terminal.
http://pakistanirebel.wordpress.com/2014/03/19/diego-garcia-is-the-key-to-finding-missing-malaysian-airliner-6/
James:-
But can anyone tell me what the surface winds direction and speed was at KUL when MH307 was Cleared For Takeoff ?
Answer:- At 12.30 am on 8/3/14 Windspeed was 2 mph from the ESE.
Source:-
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/WMKK/2014/3/8/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586308/Missing-jet-WAS-carrying-highly-flammable-lithium-batteries-CEO-Malaysian-Airlines-finally-admits-dangerous-cargo.html
What Ahmad Jauhari said four days ago:
When asked at a press conference if there was any dangerous cargo on board, he replied: ‘We had a load of mangosteens headed to China.
‘It was a large quantity – about three to four tonnes of mangosteens,’ he said to laughter from the media.
What he said today:’We carried some lithium-ion small batteries, they are not big batteries and they are basically approved under the ICAO (The International Civil Aviation Organisation) under dangerous goods.’
What he will say next week:
We carried tons of porcelain.
What he will say in 6 years:
Magically, perhaps due to the salt in the water and due to the high pressure 4000 metres below sea level, the porcelain on board transformed into gold.
At least this is technically much more likely than the quick transformation of mangosteen fruits into lithium batteries. The malaysians are true magicians.
Media photos of the flight simulator are photoshopped.
Proof:
Watch the vertical line in the middle on top of that picture where the background of his flat suddenly ends. I almost bet that he didnt have a flight simulator. This is setup due to the script.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/pb452/mh370transcript_zpsd8c71b2e.jpg
Sorry. Wrong picture posted above.
http://therearenosunglasses.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/zaharie-ahmad-shah-flight-simulator.jpg
@straw44berry – I think the point James was making was that the crew should have been told the wind info before take-off and that it should thus be in the transcript. Thus lax procedure.
I’ve not read the transcript yet.
Bleb
Spot on. Hence the “transcripts” have to be a very bad “fake”.
So proof (if proof where needed) how “bad” the MSN “exclusives” actually are.
And how “really bad” the “experts” on “The News” are.
Wonder if CNN have found their “black hole” yet ????
Bleb
I realised that and even if it were translated twice whole parts of the conversation cant disappear. I assume they would also ask about cloud cover and visibility, especially when taking off at night.
James
How easy would it be for the whole flight to be a phantom?
Visibilty was 10km between Midnight and 1am though by 2am it was just 3km
BB, are you sure that’s the right link for the Iranians?
I cannot find the animated photo we had earlier in the week,maybe its been pulled as it was very incriminating.
Here’s the cargo,
03/10/2014 21:55 -0400
A curious story, and one which should be taken with a mine of salt, has surfaced out of the pro-Russian newspaper Iskra, which reports – so far on an entirely unsubstantiated basis – that last Friday, in a mysterious operation under the cover of night, Ukraine’s gold reserves were promptly loaded onboard an unmarked plane, which subsequently took the gold to the US.
From the source:
Tonight, around at 2:00 am, an unregistered transport plane took off took off from Boryspil airport.
According to Boryspil staff, prior to the plane’s appearance, four trucks and two cargo minibuses arrived at the airport all with their license plates missing. Fifteen people in black uniforms, masks and body armor stepped out, some armed with machine guns.
These people loaded the plane with more than forty heavy boxes.
After this, several mysterious men arrived and also entered the plane. The loading was carried out in a hurry. After unloading, the plateless cars immediately left the runway, and the plane took off on an emergency basis.
Airport officials who saw this mysterious “special operation” immediately notified the administration of the airport, which however strongly advised them “not to meddle in other people’s business.”
Later, the editors were called by one of the senior officials of the former Ministry of Income and Fees, who reported that, according to him, tonight on the orders of one of the “new leaders” of Ukraine, all the gold reserves of the Ukraine were taken to the United States.
Indicatively, according to the latest IMF figures, Ukraine’s official gold holdings are just over 40 tons, having doubled in the past decade:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-10/was-price-ukraines-liberation-handover-its-gold-fed
Flown to & reloaded onto MH370 at Diego Garcia ?
Katie
22 Mar, 2014 – 10:20 am
I dont understand your question.
What link?
BB.
Your photo bucket link, sorry I was too eager, I thought it was to show the two Iranians.
Do you still have the animated photo of them ?
Straw
The whole flight ? As in no take off ? Pretty damn difficult I imagine.
At the “hand over” the turn West was made.
He’d be finishing with one controller and calling another.
That’s a pretty good moment to “go west”.
Hello everybody, my name is Donald …. Katie has invited me to comment here, just introducing myself for now, shall get an avatar soon 🙂
Just some thoughts on MH 370
It is entirely possible for the plane to have crashed over its charted course and because its ACARS system is a sealed unit, had it not been damaged, it might have continued to ping the ACK signal whilst under the shallow waters in the area until water finally got into it.
I don’t believe the Vietnamese did a proper and professional search of their areas, their planes and choppers were Russian antiquated things and they would have been at the extreme range of their flight capabilities.
Any signals picked up by miliary radar after the supposed disappearance does not mean it was the actual plane, Primary radar does not identify planes, it only sees them as objects in the sky and at the time the area was filled with other planes flying in all direction.
Donald
You mean the FDR(s) ?
“Primary radar does not identify planes”
Correct. What is done is, take the track the Primary radar track recorded, then “overlay” with the Secondary radar track recorded.
You also take “all” Primary radar tracks recorded. And cross check with “all” Secondary radar tracks recorded. (and of course eliminate “known, unknowns”).
That’ll leave one track….which should have also been “on” the Secondary track recorded (until it ended).
However there maybe an issue already with the primary radar track recorded, which has been published. will wait and see how that turns out. It may just be the “map overlays” that have been used.
No Jamie, I meant that military primary radar is not equipped to pick up the pings from either the ACARS or the Transponder, the old name for the transponder signal is IFF .. “identification Friend or Foe”
All military radar picks up is a return signal from the metallic skin of the plane, they have no way of knowing which plane it is, only its location and usually its size.
You can see all the planes in the area the time by clicking on this link, lots of pictures to search but you will soon understand that it was entirely possible for the military radars of Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia to not be able to tell just which plane was which
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=flightradar24+mh370&client=firefox-a&hs=lXh&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=SYQtU4ebO4OplQXK7oCIBw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg&biw=1360&bih=648#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=e9Y1Jg_-ldTV2M%253A%3BZiZKo-Qn5oIvIM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ftheaviationist.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2014%252F03%252FMH370.png%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ftheaviationist.com%252Ftag%252Fmh370%252Fpage%252F2%252F%3B960%3B634
Donald
Er… yep, that’s what I just said.
You take Secondary (civil and tagged) and compare to Primary.
And it’s James ! Don !
Sorry, your comment of 12:33 was not there when I began writing my reply to you