When Lavrov Was Right 169


When NATO forces attacked Serbia in 1999, killing many civilians, in order to establish the current disastrous mafia statelet of Kosovo, Sergei Lavrov spoke very wisely at the Security Council.  He said:

              Attempts to justify strikes as preventing humanitarian catastrophe were not recognized by international law, he said.  The use of unilateral force would lead to a situation with devastating humanitarian consequences.  No considerations of any kind could serve to justify aggression.  Violations of  law could only be combated on the solid basis of the law.

Attempts to apply other standards to international law and disregard other laws created a dangerous precedent, he said.  The virus of a unilateral approach could spread… the Council alone should decide the means to maintain or restore international security.  NATO’s attempt to enter the twenty-first century in the uniform of an international gendarme set a dangerous precedent.

He was of course absolutely right.  Liberal interventionism and the right to protect were extremely foolish and dangerous doctrines.  When propagated by useful idiots, even at their most high-minded they were never more that a repetition of the old imperialist “civilizing mission” of military attack to eradicate barbarous practices.  In fact they were brutally utilized as an excuse for resource grab and personal enrichment.

The Robert Coopers of this world have been hoist with their own petard, because it was always inevitable that others would use the same excuse in areas where they had power, to do what the US and its satellites were doing where they could.  If you promulgate that might is right, you cannot complain when someone punches you.

But that does not make Russia’s actions in the Ukraine right – rather it makes Lavrov a complete hypocrite.  As Lavrov said to the Security Council,  “the Council alone should decide the means to maintain or restore international security”, and the security council voted by 13 to 1 against the Crimea referendum.  It is beyond argument that the man is massively hypocritical.

The truth is that the western powers and Russia are both vicious in the field of foreign relations and have little real care for ordinary people and their rights. Russian actions in military occupation of Crimea (far beyond keeping an agreed number of troops stationed in agreed bases) are indeed illegitimate and illegal.

Let me add two more hypocrisies in the Russian position.  It is an offence carrying up to 22 years in jail to advocate the secession of any part of Russia.  There is no sign of any referendum on self-determination for the people of Chechnya and Dagestan.  I do not believe that in a genuinely democratic vote, there is any political proposition which would ever get 97% of the vote.  You couldn’t get 97% of any group of people to vote for free ice cream.  Interestingly enough, Putin is claiming in the Crimea precisely the same percentage – 97% – that Hitler claimed in his Plebiscite in Austria to ratify the Anschluss.

The other thing I thought wonderfully ironic is that I saw two representatives of the “international observer group” on Russia Today this morning, one Polish and one Hungarian, and both were from fully paid up genuine fascist organisations.  The Hungarian has been saying it is most unfortunate that the BNP couldn’t make it.

For the other side of this coin – western hypocrisy – see here.

 

 

 

 


169 thoughts on “When Lavrov Was Right

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  • technicolour

    Mods, I should think the above link from Canspeccy is to some kind of far-right propaganda site. Of course, given the mindset of the poster, it might be to a recipe for fairy cakes, but thought you should be warned.

  • Mary

    Apart from the change of Herbie’s name to ‘Erbie, what an offensive and cruel remark above. The loss of a primary sense is no joking matter nor should it be referred to in a throwaway manner like this.

    Erbert

    “I see.”
    ______________________

    You don’t – as usual. Were you born blind or are you just wilfully blind?

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    Herbie

    “Habby

    “I suppose that’s why OSCE observers weren’t allowed in?”

    I’ve corrected you on this previously.

    Please respect the facts.

    OSCE declined their invitation.”
    ________________________

    If that was so, Herbie, what were their reasons? Could it have been that OSCE didn’t want to endorse the holding of an illegal and inconstitutional referendum?
    But you tell us.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    Mary (08h31)

    Come off it, Mary, your false indignation fools no one.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    Herbie

    Have just seen that Resident Dissident answered your point about OSCE.

    Any comments on that response? Don’t be shy now!

  • John Goss

    Technicolour, the link is to Canspeccy’s own blog page. This is an anti-Asian site which could have been put together by the National Front. There is no place for it in an integrated society because it is designed to bring out the worst in feelings of white supremacy.

  • OrwellianUK

    Here Craig, I think you’re overstating the “Intervention” and understating the influence the US/EU/NATO played in toppling the democratically elected (albeit corrupt) government of Yanukovych. The Western Cabals had clearly been undermining both the political and economic situations in Ukraine for years. You call Nuland a fantasist but her IMF vetted guy “Yats” is now in charge in Kiev is he not? Backed up by vicious Neo-Nazis to boot. Remember that billions were spent on this covert campaign. Any country that was subjected to such outside interference would suffer collapse and popular protest against the governments “failures”. The key here is that the US has been practicing these techniques for many decades and has become extremely skilled in manipulating the situations for its own agenda. Iran in 1953 and Venezuela in 2002 and currently are just a couple of examples.

    At the same time, I’m wondering what you would have Putin do in the face of constant Western expansionist policy to turn former Russian Federation nations into Missile bases and IMF basket cases? What would the US do if this were Canada or Mexico? Shock and Awe probably. Certainly the pundits would be screaming about threats to the Sovereignty of the US, but for some reason, the Russians aren’t allowed to do this. A fair comparison to the “Occupation” of Crimea might be the “annexation” of Austria by Hitler. At the time, this was welcomed with fervent nationalism.

    I also can’t understand why you keep singing the praises of that utter failure, the EU. In itself it is becoming an economic basket case as a result of unchecked and debt based growth, depletion of resources, corrupt bureaucracy, and over expansion. How can you possibly imagine that adding another nation to this complete debacle, especially went that nation is saddled in debt and internal division, would do anything other than result in utter disaster for all concerned?

    As happened in the 90’s to a collapsing Soviet Union, the Western Powers wish to turn Ukraine into an IMF debt slave while asset stripping anything of value such as the country’s industry, energy, farming, labour force etc. It’s probably a rock and a hard place, but I would suggest Yanukovych’s decision to reject the EU offer and accept the Russian one, was actually the best choice for the future of his country.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    Resident Dissident

    ““Earlier, Mr Putin told Russia’s parliament that Crimea had “always been part of Russia” and in signing the treaty he was righting a “historical injustice”.”

    The man just cannot stop lying.”
    _______________________

    But what do you expect from a former KGB officer?

    BTW – I asked this question of Excellences some while ago but without answer : are you aware of any other present Head of State or Government whose previous occupation was secret policeman?

    You can take Vlad out of the KGB, but can you take the KGB out of Vlad?

  • Cuthulan

    still ranting against Putin and denying that the Ukraine coup is Neo Nazi!?
    Craig ,You are looking comical.

    CRAIG
    “I don’t underrate the intent, but I should be fascinated to know by what mechanism you think Nuland mobilized tens of thousands of demonstrators – or do you think they were all a neo-Nazi cadre?”
    I think
    Bandolero
    17 Mar, 2014 – 3:33 pm
    explained this very easily ,I am amazed you even asked!?!?!!?
    A lot will just be “useful idiots” ,like yourself!
    FYI
    Minorities can control centralised authorities
    In the 1980’s you could not find a Thatcherite in Scotland, BUT they still ran the country!
    BUT thats centralised authority for you, just an elected dictatorship
    The bigger it is the less democratic it gets!

    QUOTE Macky
    17 Mar, 2014 – 4:47 pm
    “the astonishing statement that the NATO attack on Yugoslavia passed you by, because you didn’t pay much attention as you were too busy with the Sierra Leone situation.”
    Craig,Is this TRUE?!?!If so this explains a lot.
    Then YOU have blood on your hands you centralised authority muppet!
    And your blogs become a futile task of self justification.
    YOU have just demonstrated why centralised authorties cannot and do not work!
    they are also non-democratic.
    Craig if you claim to be an honest good man and YOU still voted FOR WAR AND WAR CRIMES including drug dealing and organ legging,then what sort of person does it take to STOP a centralised authority from committing war crimes?
    .. or will you just ignore that fact that you supportted Neo-Nazis in Eastern Europe AGAIN!!
    http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2010/12/17/crime-minister-us-eu-in-on-kosovo-pms-mafia-plot-report/
    The worlds largest demonstration ,the ANTI-IRAQ WAR demonstration failed to stop the UK centralised authority from committing war crimes!
    http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/burger-eating-war-monkeys-and-thier-track-record/
    BUT you still seem to think centralised authorities are good and even democratic?!?!?!?
    …and take either no resposibility or apologise for “unavoidable attrocities” and collateral damage!

    YOU also ignore that it was the Neo Nazi/NATO snipers shooting innocent protestors and police!
    More blood on your hands? ..but you can just ignore them like you ignored the South and Central American mass murder by western forces 1945 to 2000!
    A Distorted Lens Justifying An Illegitimate Ukrainian Government
    Why does Western media ignore critical information about the snipers that killed Euromaidan protesters in Ukraine?
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-distorted-lens-justifying-an-illegitimate-ukrainian-government/5374043
    FYI
    Here is a breakdown of the vote
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/what-the-western-media-wont-tell-you-crimean-tatars-and-ukrainians-also-voted-to-join-russia/5373989

    If TRUE Democracy reigned in the UK ,USA or even the Ukraine, we would not be in this situation. ….and we would not be relying on YOU to make the right choice for us!!! How undemocratic of YOU!!
    It would be OUR choice!
    and as we(the people) will be doing the fighting and paying the bills ,it is only right and democratic WE get to decide!!

  • Herbie

    Habby

    You claimed that OSCE weren’t invited.

    The fact is they declined their invitation.

    Please, just respect the facts.

    That’s quite important.

  • Peter Bryce

    Just wanted to offer a comment on the voting figures: I do believe the 97% figure, because voting statistics are of the votes cast, not the percentage of the population (or those entitled to vote)in favour. In the Crimea situation it wouldn’t surprise me if 97% of those voting were Russian.
    In this country we refer to the political parties winning 35% “of the vote”, and thats true, but the number of people actually turning out to vote is decreasing by the year. I am a polling clerk (I wont tell you where…)and in every election in the past four years in my area the actual turnout (those voting as opposed to those entitled to vote) is less than 10%. Speaking to other clerks, that’s about par for the course elsewhere too.
    The “secret ballot” is also a bit of a misnomer. We don’t have envelopes for our votes here either, and the see-through ballot boxes I would interpret as a visual attempt at “transparency” in the process, ie an observer can see the vote going into the box, that the box if full or half full etc.
    Almost by definition any measures taken to prevent electoral fraud (short of chopping of a finger each time you vote..)results in a process whereby your vote can be discovered should the authorities wish to. Here your vote could be tracked back through the voter registration number. Your vote isn’t “secret” in the sense of being undiscoverable, its “secret” in the sense that you don’t have to put your hand up while a bunch of thugs “observing” the vote are making notes (which was in fact the “voting method” in the trade unions in the 70’s).

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    Herby

    Strange that you remain silent on Resident Dissident’s response. Does that mean you accept his points? It’s quite important that we should know where you stand.

  • Mary

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    18 Mar, 2014 – 10:46 pm

    ‘Erbert

    “I see.”
    ______________________

    You don’t – as usual. Were you born blind or are you just wilfully blind?

    ~~

    I suggest that the poster who made this horrible remark should make a donation to Guide Dogs for the Blind or the RNIB. Then wash his mouth out.

  • Herbie

    Habby

    My only concern here is that you respect the facts.

    Were the waffling of Res Diss of any merit you wouldn’t need to tell lies in the first place, would you.

  • CanSpeccy

    As I mentioned above, the PC crowd here just lie when there absurd preconceptions are demolished by exposure to reality.

    Thus John Gross asserts, concerning my blog:

    “This is an anti-Asian site which could have been put together by the National Front.”

    Well, I’m not going to tax the moderator here by explaining why that is a lie. But anyone who is rational enough to consider the facts might find interesting my post: In Praise of Diversity.

    The fact is, I am a defender of human diversity and an opponent of genocide whether conducted in the name of anti-racism or the New World Order, or merely, as in Britain to “rub the noses of the right in multi-culturalism.”

  • CanSpeccy

    “there”, I mean, “their,” obviously, but I learnt to read phonetically so I sometimes inadvertently write the same way.

  • technicolour

    Mods: John Goss is quite right; long & tedious history on this blog, sorry to say.

    John: Your last post recognises that soldiers are left traumatised, which does surely show that they are not just unfeeling mechanical parts of a machine. Thanks for engaging.

  • technicolour

    Habbakuk: there is certainly a difference between ‘not being invited’ and ‘declining an invitation’. Why would you bother arguing about it?

  • Cuthulan

    SORRY CRAIG
    APOLOGIES
    On re-reading the comments I realise that you did NOT support the Yugoslavian invasion
    ,but you where distracted and missed it.
    Craig ,can I apologise for any personal slurs aimed at you for supportting the Yugoslavian invasion.
    It was my misunderstanding ,caused by late night posting and lack of time…sorry.

    BUT
    1.It still shows that centralised authorities are bad ideas ,because you missed something as big as the invasion of Yugoslavia?!?! I know the Yugoslavians did not miss it!
    2.What where you and the UK Prime minister doing sticking your noses into other countries matters anyway? It does NOT help!

    Non-intervention is the only decent international political policy!
    I hope you where there as part of a genuine NGO and NOT on the UK taxpayer expenses or USAID or NED etc!
    Going into someone elses country to help can be done BETTER without centralised authority help!
    Just look at the difference between the unexpected Boxing Day Thailand disaster response, from NGO’s with NO government help/interferance because the politions where all on xmas holidays.
    Doctors ,nurses, engineers and rescue workers arrived and helped the survivors!Thailand is now a great place to visit again,if you can avoid the centralised authority inspired violence!
    Compare this to the hurricane Katrina response from the worlds largest and most powerful centralised authority with weeks foreknowledge of where and when the disaster would take place!
    The army was sent in,they blocked NGO doctors etc and the survivors got shot as looters!!New Orleans is still trashed!

    Craig you seem a genuinely decent bloke ,if sometimes misguided.
    You have your own decent causes to promote.Good luck with them,I mean it.
    But I was disappointed with your condecening reply and you also completely avoided responding to any of the points I made!
    This is the behaviour of trolls!
    Though I understand you are very busy and cannot respond to every comment.

    But the REAL problem is not whether tweedle dum is less evil than tweedle dee
    The problem is the political system.
    We complain about an endless list of corrupt rulers ,usually delusionally believing thier corrupt rulers are worse than ours!
    When in fact we should be challenging the system that produces an endless list of corrupt rulers!
    You ARE delusional if you think repeating the system will produce a different result!!
    The repeatedly used system is centralised authorities
    They usually hide under the guise of representative democracy(elected dictatorship) and state capitalism.
    State capitalism has various different meanings, but is usually described as a society wherein the productive forces are controlled and directed by the state in a capitalist manner, even if such a state calls itself socialist. Corporatized state agencies and states that own controlling shares of publicly-listed firms, and thus acting as a capitalist itself, are two examples of state capitalism
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
    This is not a new political idea
    Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.
    Benito Mussolini, fascist dictator of Italy (1922-1943)
    Welcome to 21st century Fascism 2.0 lite version.So its no suprise that the Western representative democraies are backing Neo-Nazis!
    We solve this issue ,we solve the roots of most of the worlds global problems.
    Direct Democracy would be a very good start.
    Unfortunately NO polition will champion this cause ,as it would mean less power and possible jail sentences for most politions!
    Imagine if the USA had pumped 5 billion dollars into the Ukraine promoting Direct Democracy instead of Neo-Nazis ,state capitalsim and elected dictatorship!
    …but Craig maybe this is your chance to shine!
    http://direct-democracy.co.uk/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy
    OR
    do you disagree with Direct Democracy(True Deomcracy) and prefer representative democracy(Elected Dictatorship)?
    But then YOU have to take responsibility for its actions,even when its not your choice of leader!!
    It means accepting leaders like Putin and Cameron and Obama and Bush and Blair etc etc etc
    I not not accept any of them!
    I would like a Direct Democracy Independent Scotland
    As I do not think representative democracy is worth the wealth theft ,police state ,paedophilia and war crimes!
    Hopefully this time I have made my points without offence…have a nice day

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