Deadly Fiasco

by craig on June 13, 2014 11:18 am in Uncategorized

The present problems of Iraq are 100% down to our murderous invasion and occupation. The idea that further western bombing will make things better is so deluded as to beggar belief.

I was surprised to find during my Burnes research that the imperialist powers of Britain and Russia were explicitly exploiting Sunni and Shia divisions to further their conquests of Islamic lands as early as the 1830’s. This has been the major tool of the neo-con Middle Eastern gameplan for some time, spreading disunity and crippling war throughout the Middle East, with the hope that this will benefit the interests of Israel.

The peculiar result has been that in general the West is very actively supporting Sunni armies and miscellaneous forces, but in Iraq is supporting the Shia. ISIS – which is heavily backed by the Saudis, who hate al-Maliki – brings this paradox into sharp relief. The current US and UK strategy is to persuade Saudi Arabia to get ISIS to reconcentrate their efforts against Assad, on the understanding they will be allowed to keep the Sunni areas of Iraq (the old neo-con plan of dividing Iraq is firmly back on the agenda).

The BBC News this morning said that ISIS would not be capable of using the billions of dollars of sophisticated western armaments they have captured. I think you will find the Saudis remedy that one quite quickly. It is quite possible we will see some token airstrikes to kill civilians in Mosul, in order to appease Obama’s domestic backers who are never happy if Americans aren’t killing enough people, but only after agreement has been reached with the Saudis that no serious harm will be done – except to the ordinary people neither Obama, the Saudis or al-Maliki care in the least about.

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  1. This is all very difficult to follow – I have been getting ISIS confused with IISS

  2. In French it’s EIII. To be honest I m not sure if ISIS is right – these names are western constructs anyway, they don’t call themselves that. Like the whole media “Al Qaida in North Chingford” meme.

  3. True. Some notable families in the Hejaz migrated there to escape Russian Imperialism in the Caucuses.

  4. Craig

    You are displaying a very cautious level of cynicism here. The gyroscope of the heart, belief in God itself as sole controller of the universe, cannot be transferred to the sleeve or the T shirt.

    Are you suggesting that USUKIS are in heart-felt solidarity with Sunni Islam and willing to create an Islamic state in Iraq as promised to the Saudi/Qatar backed Al Qaida? Is Al Qaida really a regiment of USUKIS military, fighting for the USUKIS goals of religious freedom and free trade across global borders?

    I have tried pinching myself out of that utopian dream. Surely it is in fact like your hero Burnes in Afghanistan? The imagination of war-weary US generals and internet UK politicians and the custodians of the Holy sites of Mecca and Madina can all indulge for a second in their own hearts’ dreams.

  5. Richard Alan Jones

    13 Jun, 2014 - 12:02 pm

    So let me get this right. We support the Iraq government in the fight against ISIS. We don’t like ISIS, but ISIS is supported by Saudi Arabia who we do like. We don’t like Assad in Syria. We support the fight against him, but ISIS is also fighting against him. We don’t like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government in its fight against ISIS. So some of our friends support our enemies, some enemies are now our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, who we want to lose, but we don’t want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win. If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they could be replaced by people we like even less, and all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists who were not actually there until we went in to drive them out. I think I’ve got it.

  6. Guano

    Your last sentence exceeded the permitted level of craziness and has been deleted

  7. Richard Alan Jones

    Yes, perfect!

  8. lucythediclonius

    13 Jun, 2014 - 12:15 pm

    Nice one Craig I take it that Assad supporting ISIS is completely absurd .

  9. I heard someone say on Fox News that Assad was supporting ISIS and thought I was hallucinating

  10. Thanks, Craig, for another succinct take on dreadful events. Preparing myself for the inevitable rewriting of history according to the Blairites/Neocons which will follow soon in press and Dweeb-Beeb.

  11. lucythediclonius

    13 Jun, 2014 - 12:28 pm

    I saw it from that collection of shills Michael Weiss got together and likewise .

  12. Glad to see you’ve adjusted your ridiculous one million ‘body count’ to “our murderous invasion”.

    Will you accept that the only way to stop Muslim fanatics killing each other in that part of the world is by murderous secular dictatorship? Because like you I didn’t support the Iraq War, but not for wooly minded liberal reasons.

  13. Nobody spreads the kind of freedom delivered to the Iraqi and Libyan peoples like NATO. Freedom, is a bit like wicked, and taking on a meaning close to the antonym of its original meaning.

  14. Anon,

    So a million is ‘ridiculous’ but 650,000+ is OK?

    Is that what youre saying?

    For a disgusting and fake war 1 death is too many.

  15. What about your last sentence, Craig?

  16. @Anon: It was a million about ten years ago, so its going to be far, far higher by now.

    Muslims were living with Muslims reasonably well in Iraq and Iran before the US, with first Margaret Thatcher’s then Tony Blair’s assistance decided to intervene. They intervened to stop a power block developing in the Middle East that would threaten “Western interests”.

    It takes a sick kind of pussy to do it but, all that is needed to create a civil war is to send in a few well hidden agent provocateurs to do appalling things to people… chaos will inevitably ensue. It happened in N. Ireland, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, many other places, and its now happening in Ukraine. People aren’t naturally warlike. Muslims are people, just like the rest of us, and subject to the same response when provoked. The only real question is… why do the sick pussies do this?

  17. 650,000

    I hadn’t heard that one before.

    Maybe 649,000, maybe 651,000. Just pluck a figure from thin air.

    Iraq Body Count has it as 188,000, perhaps a few more now that Muslims are openly executing Muslims in the street.

    When does it end? I reckon IBC will get to 500,000 in five years, which is still 150,000 less than Jives Body Count, the difference being about the same number as some estimate the total, but which is still 500,000 short of Craig Body Count.

    I suppose it all depends on whether you include old people dying and Muslim fundamentalists killing Muslims I suppose. Or if you will do anything to make the West look far worse than it actually is.

  18. The western media have been painting the ongoing daily bloodshed in Iraq as in the neighboring Sunni majority Syria, as “civil war. But in reality, what is currently going on in the Middle East is part of Israel’s Yinon Plan or the so-called “Arab Spring”. It is an Israeli strategic plan to ensure Israeli regional superiority. It insists and stipulates that Israel must reconfigure its geo-political environment through the balkanization of the surrounding Arab states into smaller and weaker states. Israeli strategists viewed Iraq as their biggest strategic challenge from an Arab state. This is why Iraq was outlined as the centerpiece to the balkanization of the Middle East and the Arab World. In Iraq, on the basis of the concepts of the Yinon Plan, Israeli strategists have called for the division of Iraq into a Kurdish state and two Arab states, one for Shia Muslims and the other for Sunni Muslims. The first step towards establishing this was a war between Iraq and Iran, which the Yinon Plan discusses.

    Failing to destroy the Islamic Republic, the US-Israel went after a weakened Iraq and created an autonomous oil-rich pro-Israeli Sunni Iraqi Kurdistan. Currently, western poodle in Saudi Arabia and Qatar are funding the Sunni terrorists who has established Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) in Iraq after defeated by army and Hizbullah in Syria.

  19. Oh my God! It’s now “it was a million about ten years ago”. Just make it up as you go along…

  20. @Anon: 650000 was the number of deaths deduced by a group of medics, and their results were published in The Lancet, probably in 2005. Don’t you believe in science either?

  21. The Lancet study was published in October 2006. The exact figure quoted by the researchers was 654,965. Of course the US and UK governments did all they could to debunk the figures.

  22. Peacewisher has gone from 1 million a few minutes ago to 650,000. That’s 350,000 Iraqis he’s playing around with there. And he lectures me on science.

    No, I don’t believe something just because it’s written in “The Lancet”. The methodology and conclusions were widely discredited anyhow. That’s how science is done you see. Claim is made, and tested. Dealing with something as vague as the total number of deaths caused by the invasion of Iraq, you can pretty much make up whatever number you want, depending on what you are prepared to include. Depending on your politics.

  23. I was thinking aloud, Anon. It was peer-reviewed, if you realise the implications of that… Glad you might now be able to agree that 650000 in 2006 was a reliable figure, and 1 million at that time Was a speculative figure. Many more deaths in the eight years of instability between then and now probably would have taken it over the million mark.

  24. Anon,

    650,000 was the body count in 2006 by The Lancet.

    Why are you defending the indefensible?

  25. Back to the current Iraq situation… I don’t think the US planned this! Maybe the UK did? Maybe Russia did? Maybe the Bankers did? I don’t know any more about this than anyone else but I know there was an agreement struck in 2006 between the US army and the Sunni tribe leaders. Maybe that agreement has just run into the buffers? I haven’t followed it at all, just speculating. Maybe someone on here can enlighten us.

  26. Can you tell me what causes of deaths you are including?

    Actually, scrub that. Can you tell me what cause of death you are not including?

    You see, American soldier shoots an Iraqi civilian. That’s an innocent death caused by the Iraq War. Eleven years later, Muslim fanatic blows up bus load of civilians. Not so sure. Old lady dies of illness that could have been cured in Switzerland. Definitely not.

  27. I think we all know perfectly well what we mean. Look at the violent deaths in Iraq before 2003, and after 2003, right up to present day. The increase over the 2002 level would be those caused by the coalition of the killing. Now let’s move on shall we…

  28. “You see, American soldier shoots an Iraqi civilian. That’s an innocent death caused by the Iraq War.”

    What bollocks Anon. The war in Iraq was illegal. The intention was to steal the oil and mineral resources. So if an American soldier shoots an Iraqi civilian it is not innocent at all.

    You’ve been contributing to this blog long enough to know that. You just like to be contentious, but it makes you look stupid, which you might not be.

  29. On the lighter side, anyone remember “Between Iraq and a Hard Place?”:

  30. “I don’t think the US planned this! Maybe the UK did? Maybe Russia did? Maybe the Bankers did?”

    Follow the money. Whoever is arming these guys and paying their wages is controlling their actions.

    My guess is that the objective in Iraq is to provoke Iran into taking matters into its own hands. Shia muslims in Iraq will be targeted for spectacular carnage. Iran sends in troops to try and stop it. Iran gets denounced for its ‘expansionist’ agenda and then the war starts.

  31. “..except to the ordinary people[serious harm] neither Obama, the Saudis or al-Maliki care in the least about.

    Just in case ‘ordinary people’ connect, coordinate, complement and capitalize in significant weight to bring about a formidable intention to resist and confront, the Pentagon is advancing social tools to discourage such trends:

    Pentagon preparing for mass civil breakdown:

  32. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 2:27 pm


    re Irak casualty figures:

    I thought that you’d comprehensively demolished the pluckers-of-figures-out-of-thin-air a couple of threads ago, but by God, here you are havong to deal with the same group of punch-drunk, broken-down old pugs all over again!

    And of course, just like last time, you’re flooring them all over again!

    Well done!

  33. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 2:34 pm

    Ah yes, the Lancet! The Lancet.

    The house journal where we could read that butter was bad for you but now it isn’t. That stanins could be ingested without fear, but now they can’t.

    Do drink two glasses of red a day. Err, actually, perhaps better not.

    I can see how, with such a record on things medical – things within its remit – the Lancet should be uniquely qualified to pronounce on matters well outside its remit and capabilities.


    There is a saying in a (continental) country which must remain anonymous: the only people more stupid than teachers are doctors.

  34. You know the trolls are losing the argument when they go into tag team mode..

    Habba is so far up Anon’s arse they might meld into one if they’re not careful.

    Still,i guess its a kind of sweet romance.

    And who here would deny them their little love-in?

  35. “Look at the violent deaths in Iraq before 2003, and after 2003, right up to present day.”

    So we are agreed that it takes a brutal secular dictatorship to keep a lid on Islamist violence, rather than Islam being some innately peaceful, innocent and harmless religion that takes only America and the West to to turn it into a violent rage? Because to my mind, to get to the kind of ridiculous figures you and Craig have cited here, that must be exactly what you believe.

    Peacewisher, I accept that the US-led invasion killed a lot of innocent people and that BLiar should be tortured on a lampost or whatever it is you want, but what I can’t tolerate is the kind of lefty wankery displayed by you and others here that wilfully exaggerates the numbers killed for political reasons – namely that you fucking detest this country and will say anything to make it look worse than it actually is.

    The vast majority of deaths in Iraq have been caused by fanatical Muslims killing each other and other Muslims. If you are opposed to the Iraq War as I was then you have to accept that tyrants like Saddam, Assad and Gaddafi are probably best left where they are.

    There is no lovely left-liberal outcome of Muslims loving each other and prospering if only America would stay out of their affairs.

  36. Tell that to a doctor the next time youre in need of urgent medical care Habbabkuk.

    But you wont will you because not only are you a fool and hypocrite but youre a coward as well.

    Now go and change your string vest.

    That strange yellowish colour is disgusting,not to mention the smell.

  37. Habbabkuk

    We had all this with the Dresden ‘body count’. I informed Dross he was exaggerating the numbers killed by a factor of ten, backed up by German studies, and what was I told?

    That I didn’t care that ten times less were killed.

    Even Clark had to interject on that one!

  38. Anon: You know nothing abut me and we seem to agree on a number of things so why are you getting so nasty? It is war that I detest not this or that country or politician. But any external politician that deliberately engineers what happens on the ground in a country for the purpose of creating war (or civil war) will not be my best friend. There has to be a better way.

    PS Body counts will always be a matter of dispute… Total for Guernica still varies from about 200 to about 4000.

  39. “..punch-drunk, broken-down old pugs.” remember the ‘pug’ is really an extraterrestrial in disguise (a Remoolian). Take the piss and you will be taken to be deneuralyzed… (not so sure if this will have any effect).

  40. “The vast majority of deaths in Iraq have been caused by fanatical Muslims killing each other and other Muslims”

    Dat’s right. All dem bombs an’ missiles, dey was jus’ candy floss.

    Have you turned your forensic mind to the holocaust at all? Plenty to get your teeth into there!

  41. Anon with the green avatar, not the red one!

    John’s surname is Goss as you well know. Do not attempt your smear of referring to him as ‘Gross’.


    John You might be interested in hearing John Pilger on RT with Sophie Shevardnadze at 6.30

    In case it is a different programme to the one broadcast at lunchtime, here is the transcript of that.

  42. I think ISIS final gamble will be to turn towards Iran, Saudi’s big bugbear, Turning Maliki upside down with all oil; rights up in the air, will not be enopugh for these warmongers.

    But I’m sure all the rich Oligarchs,millionares, settling warmongers/criminals, banks and usual multinational tax evaders will be very pleased if we help them in their immense task undermining the country with a comprehensive tax boycott.

    Would that stop these mind blowing ravages? demonstrations in London do very little.

  43. So here are five straightforward lessons — none acceptable in what passes for discussion and debate in this country — that could be drawn from that last half century of every kind of American warfare:

    1. No matter how you define American-style war or its goals, it doesn’t work. Ever.

    2. No matter how you pose the problems of our world, it doesn’t solve them. Never.

    3. No matter how often you cite the use of military force to “stabilize” or “protect” or “liberate” countries or regions, it is a destabilizing force.

    4. No matter how regularly you praise the American way of war and its “warriors,” the US military is incapable of winning its wars.

    5. No matter how often American presidents claim that the US military is “the finest fighting force in history,” the evidence is in: it isn’t.

    Don’t Walk Away From War
    June 12, 2014
    by Tom Engelhardt

  44. @Richard Alan Jones – LOL! Sorry we don’t have a recommend button.

    @ assorted trolls. There have been a number of well-researched estimates of the number of excess deaths in the Iraq War, the Lancet’s being one of them, utilising recognised methodologies, with excess deaths* from 500,000 – 1 million and other damage including wounded, displaced, homeless and psychologically maimed in the several millions – do you not recognise that this is a terrible crime and that is why so many people are horrified at the prospect of our lovely armed forces “helping out” again?

    * excess deaths = deaths that wouldn’t have happened if Iraq hadn’t been invaded.


    13 Jun, 2014 - 3:37 pm

    The anal-gazing over how many deaths is a purposeful diversion. Blame whomever you wish, but the death toll is the Butcher’s Bill that should be recompensed by those most responsible for this and other attempted debacles….



    13 Jun, 2014 - 3:40 pm

    Check out the graph on terrorist attacks in Iraq. BTW; Zawahiri and the Takfiris who eat human hearts find ISIS too extreme.

  47. Proto-warfare often precedes, or leads up to, hot wars, as when a decade of economic sanctions, media demonization, and media-supported lies about ‘weapons of mass destruction’ led up to the Iraq war. Thousands of young American men and women were sent over to kill and be killed, or to be injured or traumatized, to say nothing of the up to a million Iraqis who died as a result of the war. However, Iraq did not possess nuclear or other weapons of mass destruction, so there was no danger of a nuclear conflagration. Matters are much different with respect to Russia and China, both nuclear powers.

    The Wolfowitz doctrine:

    “Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”


    13 Jun, 2014 - 4:13 pm

    The one-percent doctrine of Cheney. “Hey, I think we can increase those odds”

    “The title of Ron Suskind’s riveting new book, “The One Percent Doctrine,” refers to an operating principle that he says Vice President Dick Cheney articulated shortly after 9/11: in Mr. Suskind’s words, “if there was even a 1 percent chance of terrorists getting a weapon of mass destruction — and there has been a small probability of such an occurrence for some time — the United States must now act as if it were a certainty.” He quotes Mr. Cheney saying that it’s not about “our analysis,” it’s about “our response,” and argues that this conviction effectively sidelines the traditional policymaking process of analysis and debate, making suspicion, not evidence, the new threshold for action.”

  49. Don’t see Western bombing happening. It runs counter to the tendencies in the ultimate authority. The UNSC’s current president, Russia’s Churkin, said no one has suggested measures against ISIS. Churkin and Gerard Araud are going to keep the focus on the failed state that US government aggression created in Iraq. UNAMI is talking sense against the US terror hysteria, insisting Baghdad is not at risk.

    What’s more worrisome is the likelihood that with all these emergencies, the Russian presidency might be too busy to promote UNSC reform, which everyone knows is vital to prevent more US crimes against peace. The US strategy is to pit aspiring permanent members against one another, but the real fight is to curtail the veto and end permanent membership altogether. Reform is a long game, and impeding it is one of the prime goals of US confrontation and destabilization. Keep the UNSC reactive and off-balance, that’s the US plan.

  50. On June 13, 2014, UK’s Jewish Chronicle reported that country’s Holocaust Education Trust, an Israeli advocacy group, has cancelled its annual dinner at the Dorchester Hotel as part of world-wide Jewish boycott call to punish Sultan of Brunei.

    “The Holocaust Educational Trust (HET) is a Jewish ultra-Zionist outfit, charged in the UK with Shoa indoctrination and it is interested only in the Shoa of one people and one people only. Visiting Auschwitz with the HET is probably as informative as sightseeing tour in Gaza concentration camp in the company of (Israeli justice minister and former Mossad’s sex-pot) Tzipi Livni,” said Gilad Atzmon, an Israeli-born British citizen.


    13 Jun, 2014 - 4:56 pm

    The ME is a circular firing squad caught in an ambush. It’s a little like the US Civil War; brother against brother, only with greater firepower.

    “Sow the wind. Reap the whirlwind” Hosea 8:7

  52. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:05 pm

    “Habba is so far up Anon’s arse they might meld into one if they’re not careful.”

    Nothing compared to the group sex you regularly indulge in with the likes of Mary, Herbie, Mr Goss, Tony M, Mike and others, Jives!

    And now off to bed with you, you’re only allowed out after midnight. :)

  53. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:10 pm

    “John You might be interested in hearing John Pilger on RT with Sophie Shevardnadze at 6.30″

    Surely you meant Sophie Kibo Noh, Mary?

    Sounds like a perfect fit! LOL

  54. Why Nuclear War? An insight from the command and control Navy machine at Northwood headquarters, Hertfordshire.

    The acute reason for war results from the imminent collapse of the trans-Atlantic financial system. Neither the British monarchy and its power base, the City of London, nor the Bush-Obama continuum and its power base, Wall Street, can tolerate the idea that their system would break down, while Asian and Eurasian countries, China, India, Russia–develop themselves economically(BRICS).

    Preparation IS in place for nuclear war as witnessed by NATO’s nuclear escalation

    By 2020 the F-16 fighter aircraft and Tornados of five NATO countries are to be replaced by F-35 Joint Strike Fighters capable of delivering B61-12 class nuclear bombs (0.3 to 1,200 KTons) modified to improve accuracy and the ability to glide to its targets reducing radioactive fallout. This would apply to countries that were previously considered to be non-nuclear, namely Belgium, the Netherlands, Turkey, Germany, and Italy and in my opinion is a violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and of the Obama Administration’s own promises.

    The failure of American strategy in Syria and Ukraine may lead to a more radical policy, a direct military attack on Russia and China.

    The signs have been ‘on the source’ since 2001 when tactical nuclear weapons were used to bring down the World Trade Center towers and during the 2003 Iraq war to smash Falluga.

    The modernization of tactical nuclear weapons starting with Israel modifying the W54 artillary shell in the 70’s is now a clear sign of the preparation of a USUKIS war against China and Russia. Tests of tactical nukes conducted with South Africa were known and I saw a ‘NOT FOR SOUTH AFRICA EYES’ signal that recognised the joint ISSA testing arrangement

    Increasing the potential of tactical nuclear weapons in Europe is all about the attainment of superiority in these weapons over China and possibly Russia.

    An aggressive NATO war will become possible, and China/Russia/Iran’s ability to retaliate against European territory will be limited and, out of fear of a U.S. strategic counterstrike, would refrain from using nuclear weapons.

    Smart-weapon systems, permeates all aspects of NATO and U.S. doctrines, all of which aim to eliminate air defenses, to destroy command-and-control functions, and thus to eliminate the second-strike capacity. This is the basis of the U.S. missile defense system in Eastern Europe; it is the basis for the “Prompt Global Strike” doctrine, as well as the Air-Sea Battle doctrine against China.

    In the (Strategic Studies Quarterly), the official journal of the U.S. Air Force, the authors Keir Lieber and Daryl Press had already announced the end of the Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) doctrine of NATO in the Spring of 2013, and put forward the theory that nuclear wars are winnable. Various critics of this delusion have pointed out that all these doctrines lead to a race to a first strike on both sides, and massively increase the danger of war.

    Britain and the US decided a decade ago to continue rule as a world empire (the ‘special relationship’) and is the context for the continuous eastward expansion of NATO and the EU, as well as the systematic strategy of encirclement of Russia and China.

  55. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:13 pm


    “@ assorted trolls. There have been a number of…etc, etc..”


    Assorted trolls? Don’t be a bitch, Julian, there are too many bitches here already.


    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:18 pm

    Yes, Mark. Don’t forget low-yield tactical nukes.

    On that note…

    ” Shi’te Muslim Iran is so alarmed by Sunni insurgent gains in Iraq that it may be willing to cooperate with Washington in helping Baghdad fight back, a senior Iranian official told Reuters.

    The idea is being discussed internally among the Islamic Republic’s leadership, the senior Iranian official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity. The official had no word on whether the idea had been raised with any other party.”

  57. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:20 pm

    “The Wolfowitz doctrine:

    “Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union.”

    From the American point of view that sounds eminently rational and sensible to me, Mr Golding.

    When you think about it, why should the Americans welcome the emergence of another rival similar to the late, unlamented Evil Empire?

    I don’t even welcome that prospect, so why should the Americans?

    What’s your problem with that?


    There will now probably follow a stream of abuse from the usual Useful Idiots., but no reasoned argument.


    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:28 pm

    Zarqawi enjoyed his fame. The new guy is more secretive.


    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:31 pm

    Wolfowwitz/Cheney doctrine= self-fulfilling prophecy.

  60. Always worth a read, William Blum’s last but one Anti-Empire Report:

    ” […] in a survey conducted by an independent Russian polling center this past January, and reported in the Washington Post in April, 86 percent of respondents older than 55 expressed regret for the Soviet Union’s collapse; 37 percent of those aged 25 to 39 did so. 7 (Similar poll results have been reported regularly since the demise of the Soviet Union. This is from USA Today in 1999: “When the Berlin Wall crumbled, East Germans imagined a life of freedom where consumer goods were abundant and hardships would fade. Ten years later, a remarkable 51% say they were happier with communism.”)

    Or as the new Russian proverb put it: “Everything the Communists said about Communism was a lie, but everything they said about capitalism turned out to be the truth.”

  61. I’ll be a useless idiot, Habby. A world power with that sort of merciless attitude “everything else is subservient to US being THE BOSS and doing as they please…” would have no right to be a world power. Fortunately, Wolfowitz doesn’t run official US foreign policy. The cold war provided balance for the world because the mad expansionist things in the US and USSR couldn’t get their own way, and they had to negotiate. Would you say the world is a safer place since the demise of the Soviet Union?


    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:43 pm

    “If we don’t fight the terrorists over there, we’ll have to fight them here”


    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:47 pm

    Tony @ 5:37

    A bevy of convenient partners for ‘Yats’ and friends.

  64. Mary 13 Jun, 2014 – 3:11 pm

    Thanks for the Pilger plug. I think it will be the same interview I watched this morning. It followed the RT news, which is the only news reporting Ukraine. This strafing of civilians (20 children killed) in Ukraine reminds me of the prelude to the Iraq War when NATO forces were in their words “maintaining no fly zones” but in reality killing and maiming civilians and imposing crippling sanctions. That was before Blair and Bush engaged in the “Mother of all Battles” – What a sick description from the minds of very sick people.

  65. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:53 pm


    “Would you say the world is a safer place since the demise of the Soviet Union?”

    Irrelevant. Why this obsession with safety anyway – define it; safety from what or from whom?

    But the world is a lot freer (try asking assorted East Europeans, and even a few non-European Communist tyrants got the wind up – cf Castro).

  66. Habbabkuk-Turvey,

    Hilarious irony you,yersel,bemoaning a lack of reasoned argument!

    So you dont lament the passing of the Evil Empire and are happy to cheerlead Team USA.

    Team USA; an out of control monster which spies illegally on everything its citizens-and the wider world-do.Where gun ownership is ubiquitous and nary a week goes by without a major shooting incident-usually in schools.

    Team USA,who since 1945 at least have intervened,usually disastrously,in so many parts of the world-and usually lost but always a trail of massive destruction.

    Team USA, where barely adult former mallrat crewcut steroid droids in underground bunkers in places like Fort Meade press a button to commit deadly extra-judicial drone strikes,commonly on innocent wedding parties,whilst vacuously high 5-ing whilst screaming inane insane mantras such as ‘ my oountry right or wrong dude!’ whilst listening to death metal on 11 and stuffing themselves to belicose ignorant obesity.

    Way to go Habba,way to go…high-5 dude,yeah?

    You are a clumsily nervous flatulent sommelier Habba,dispensing and spilling sour vinegar-like wine from an expensive bottle.Your unclipped yellow-green toenails protrude from under frayed sandals and your stained old string vest is still visible at the top of an ill-fitting and preposterous maroon shirt.

  67. Have you asked assorted Eastern Europeans, Habby. I remember visiting that fine autonomous republic of Yugoslavia in the 1980s. Yes, there were military planes at the airport but otherwise perfectly relaxed. Found it utterly incomprehensible that this magnificent example of a people’s republic could be destroyed in the interests of “freedom”. Or many it was a coincidence that hostilities started about six months after the fall of the USSR?!

  68. many = maybe

  69. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 6:24 pm


    Don’t be so silly, Peacewisher – you know perfectly well which Eastern European countries I was referring to.

    I think I prefer real fools like Jives and Herbie to fake fools like you…. :)

  70. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 6:34 pm


    And, by the way, I also knew Tito- and immediately post-Tito- Yugoslavia and cannot say that I was very impressed.

    Indeed, the Turks from Germany travelling home for the summer holidays in their thousands seemed positively civilised by comparison.

    What did you find so “fine” about the place, Peacewisher?

  71. Rehmat

    Your comments about Israel have “exceeded the permitted level of craziness”.

  72. Peacewisher, me too. I visited Yugoslavia (as it was) united under Tito. I was there in the seventies and a fine country it appeared to be long before the liberation. but I’ve also spoken to people in Romania who were much happier under the Ceausescu regime. Some of course, the mafia in particular, have benefited from the liberation. It has now got all the problems of other liberated countries, unemployment problems, a huge national debt and increasing prices in the shops. There was no national debt under Ceausescuu though it had come at a hard cost. When I reached the border of Georgia and Azerbaijan they were telling me how very often they have no electricity but that was not the case when they were part of the Soviet family. How many more examples does my friend H want? Yes, the Russian Federation, from what I have seen in footage looks much more modern. But for some reason it is still the bogeyman! :)

  73. Obama says that Iraq has to sort its own problems “we can’t do it for them”. Does that mean the Yanks have learnt their lesson. No. I don’t think so either. The US only creates failed states. It does not sort them out. Obama is considering other options to help support the security services. What a cock up NATO countries have made of the world.

  74. Ed Murray is up to speed on the Ch4 ‘News’ propaganda.

    Snowmail…Ayad Allawi and Meghan O’Sullivan…short email to Cathy Newman
    Posted by Ed on June 13, 2014, 6:44 pm

    Ms Newman,
    In tonight’s “Snowmail”(1) you say you will be talking to Ayad Allawi and Meghan O’Sullivan.
    Will you be asking Allawi about his terrorist past in the “Iraqi National Accord”?
    Will you be asking Meghan O’Sullivan, who was instrumental in the illegal invasion of Iraq, who has worked under all manner of warmongering scoundrels (Paul Bremer, Rumsfeld, Powell to name but a few) and who has been a great advocate of America’s most murderous policies in Iraq, about her own personal responsibility for the ensuing chaos and carnage that has brought Iraq to where it is today?
    Or, as indicated in your “Snowmail”, are you really going to go from the sublime to the ridiculous and ask these two lords of chaos what should happen now? Will you explain the perverted logic here?

    Ed Murray.

    (1)Snowmail – ‘Yet with the Iraqi government losing its grip on northern Iraq, the Kurds have been exploiting the chaos by laying the foundations for an independent state in Kurdistan.
    Tonight, our Foreign Correspondent Jonathan Rugman has been inside the strategic oil city of Kirkuk which is now in the hands of Kurdish Peshmerga forces. The city was deserted by Iraqi government forces, and the Kurds spotted an opportunity among all the chaos to take the city that has always sat just beyond their borders.

    And I’ll be speaking to Ayad Allawi – the first prime minister of Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein – and Meghan O’Sullivan, the former US deputy national security adviser who helped reconstruct Iraq after the 2003 invasion. I’ll be asking them both if there’s any hope of Iraq being put back together, and what the implications are for the rest of the world if not.’

  75. Maliki reminds me of another US middle east stooge who thought that democratic elections gave him a 5 year sectarian dictatorship: Muhammad Mursi. IF, as Craig believes, the coup in Egypt was planned by the CIA, it might pay for the CIA to train their stooges more carefully in future.

    But I believe Mursi was set up to fail and stitched up economically, as was Gordon Brown, by those whose mere mention swivels the eyeballs.

    If Craig had written “Obama’s demented bankers” instead of “Obama’s domestic backers” we would all be singing from the same page.

  76. It’s all about whether you want a banker ruled globe or a multi-polar world.

    Sovereign Democracy or Global Dictatorship. The EU itself and the democratic deficit in the US are a fine taster of what we’re in for, should the likes of these come to power worldwide.

    Habby supports a Dictatorship of bankers ruling the globe.

    That’s what the current wars and suffering are all about and indeed why habby and his ilk are unconcerned about the deaths of 500,000 children in furtherance of that objective.

    The ends justify the means.

    The rest is distraction and waffle.

    This book from 1990 explains all you need to know:

    His latest book brings us up to date:

  77. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 7:27 pm

    Mr Goss

    “Peacewisher, me too. I visited Yugoslavia (as it was) united under Tito..ecc, ecc,…”

    Perhaps we were in two different Yugoslavias? Mine was the one with an Adriatic coast and it bordered on Greece, Austria, Bulgaria….

    Anyway, as you too call it a “fine” country, I extend to you the same invitation as I did to Peacewisher – could you explain what you meant by “fine”?


    And on a point of info – and to smash your rose-tinted specs – you say “There was no national debt under Ceausescuu” but you forget to mention the crippling foreign debt the country built up under that old monster. It was servicing the latter that was behind your “though it had come at a hard cost”.


    No point trying to pull the wool over Habbabkuk’s eyes – he knows too much!

  78. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 7:32 pm

    “It’s all about whether you want a banker ruled globe or a multi-polar world.”

    Yes, yes, Herbie, we know – you do keep repeating that silly-clever phrase rather a lot, don’t you.

    Where did you lift it from?

    And where or what is your personal survival kit?

    I think you should share with your friends on here. No good being selfish!

  79. James Perloff, whose books I referred to above, gives a video presentation of his work:

    People need to understand local events in terms of the big picture.

    Habby and his ilk remain committed to murder, slaughter and misery worldwide to further entrench their parasitic lives.

    Disgusting creatures.

  80. Habbabkuk-Turvey,

    Well of course i may be Of The Night ce soir.

    You could say ive got Friday on my mind.

    And lest i be accused of not acknowledging qualities in others permit to say that indeed you do have a certain je ne sais quoi about you…Something Of The Lamp about you ’tis true i openly admit.

    But you should know that sunlamps are very bad for your skin,not too mention the vanity involved.

  81. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 8:44 pm


    Are you drunk?

  82. technicolour

    13 Jun, 2014 - 8:49 pm

    @ Richard Alan Jones. Superb, thanks. I’m repeating it like a mantra.

  83. Habbabkuk-Turvey,

    No im not drunk.I havent had a drink yet but i shall step out in about an hour for a few snifters.

    And well…its that old saw Habba…come the morn i shall be sober whilst you will remain a troll in need of a clean string vest.

  84. You’re really on fire tonight, Mr H.

    If only…

    Obama will be “reluctantly” drawn into bombing Iraq – to “protect” a dictator this time. Of course, there may be some cross-border mission creep, on one side of Iraq or the other. It’s hard to predict where these actions will lead…

    Oh they’re devious alright. Fiendishly inventive, as they desperately try to protect what is left of the American way of life. One more shot for the petrodollar junkie in whatever vein he can find. War on a drip-feed is the only thing that can keep the US going.

  85. Yet another corporate hack who refers this most bloody war as an ‘adventure’. Oh and by the way, ‘things fall apart’!

    Friday 13 Jun 2014
    Jon Snow

    Things fall apart in Iraq – are we to blame?

  86. Another highly disturbing slice of evidence for anon, from the normally pro-US Aljazeera:

    Clue: Iraqi children, cancer, US munitions:

  87. Always remember. These guys play both sides.

    They’re Hedgies.

  88. Jon Snow (that one, yes, but that is just a rumour) allegedly opined:
    “History tells us repeatedly that extreme, violent, neo-fascist religiously fuelled fanaticism has only ever been contained by secular tyrants.”

    Any reasonable person would have assumed that description was being applied by Snow to the Anglo-US-Israeli axis, as their common Zionist ideology epitomises religiously fuelled fanaticism and violent, extreme and neo-fascist are also their proud signature traits, to which the world and their dog can attest earnestly. The cap surely fits most perfectly. I’m not entirely certain that history does tell us any such thing about secular tyrant’s unique, apparently meritable powers too, Jon failed (entirely understandably) to give any examples of this phenomenon. I don’t fancy the ruler in any part of the ex-UK being exchanged for a secular tyrant, however much Jon Snow commends it to his viewer. My objections aren’t principled, just practical, I wouldn’t mind at all, for a time if the US and Israel – but not us – were so ruled, they after all, deserve “exceptional” treatment.

    Many people might wonder why these “Islamist” cadres, the heavily-armed by the West head-choppers and raw heart gourmets, don’t turn their destructive attentions to the Anglo-US-Zionist beachhead vanity state, with its poor lambs trembling in the middle of all the stampeding cattle, the Ashkenazim holiday village on the Med, that multicultural melting-pot exemplar of perfected democracy, assimilation and co-existence, that needs walls to keep out people eager to join in the celebration of human diversity within -but puzzlingly illogically fall upon their own co-religionists striving, women and men, to secure the peaceful secular moderate socialist Arab lands they long desire and which most once almost had. Didn’t that Bin Laden himself read a script telling us that the presence of US troops in ‘sacred’ Saudi Arabia (but not of US puppets ruling there), and the Palestinian people’s desperate plight, were at the root of his and his band of righteous followers’ excitable drives? The obvious answer is of course that these zealot bands’ orders come down to them from the Kosher Nostra super brains ensconced upon the Tel Aviv sun-loungers, however much they try to conceal their murderous actions and motives in pseudo-religious balderdash, celestial gibberish, the effects of sunstroke and a nasty knock on the head. Another factor is that traditional majority Islam as far as I can gather has no hostility to the Jewish faith or Judiasm, or to other religions in general – a candid, pleasing ‘our’s is bonkers, theirs’ are no doubt all bonkers, too, why worry? attitude’ – they might disdain atheists and apostates, as do much of our own religiously inclined who’re still fulminating over the Enlightenment and The Life of Brian.

  89. What a Completely and Utterly Brilliant, Beautiful Day…

    I drove my wife there…and we went for a long walk along The River…

    After….we arrived..and I asked her…to order the drinks..and the food…

    She asks What Do You Want???

    I just want You….so I am not going to lie…

    I said to her later in the day…Well .. You… My Lovely Wife – Bought Me The T-Shirt…What Else Do You Expect Me To Do…But Wear It???

    They Liked it….

    They Had Never Seen anything like it Before…

    Even The Band Went Wow – They Loved My T-Shirt

    My Wife is a Heart of Gold…

    So I wore it all the way home too…

    We have done this kind of thing before…

    O>K> I Did Look a Bit Like a Walking Jukebox..

    They simply couldn’t understand how it worked – and they came laughing and clapping and shouting into my T-Shirt

    They all asked – where The F did you get that from….

    I replied..well we have just got back from a Rock Festival in Spain…

    My wife bought it for me as a Christmas Present around the Year 2007…

    So The Girls asked me…But How Do You Wash It??


  90. I shouldn’t of course write this…particularly on Craig Murray’s website….

    But the cnut he was slagging off…Something About Politics or Something High Up >> Maybe about The Prosecution of ANTHONY CHARLES LYNTON BLAIR et al…

    He don’t half look like You…

    Maybe its these spindly wire specs – and the hair…I think it is his own…

    But…seriously…I can still get away with it..You see – Whilst I Dye It…I Don’t Cut It..and there is No Way I would Trust My Wife with a Pair Of Scissors….

    I Can Still Pull…She never had any problem at all..You see The Competition…I have Just Got To Keep Up With Her For Another 33 Years…

    She Keeps Me Fit.

    She is My Wife.and I am Still In Love With Her…

    The Priest Didn’t Understand.


  91. BrianFujisan

    14 Jun, 2014 - 3:48 am

    Richard Alan Jones

    yep nice one

    Some stuff worth Noting / Remembering – here, from over at Mondoweiss –

    “I sometimes forget what happened to our country. But Belén Fernández has a new book out on Tom Friedman called The Imperial Messenger, and she reminds us of Friedman’s achievement, in an interview in the NY Times Examiner:

    Friedman sells the Iraq war as “the most radical-liberal revolutionary war the U.S. has ever launched” despite making subsequent assessments such as “The neocon strategy may have been necessary to trigger reform in Iraq and the wider Arab world, but it will not be sufficient unless it is followed up by what I call a ‘geo-green’ strategy.” As I point out in my book, it is difficult to determine how many true “geo-greens” would advocate for the tactical contamination of the earth’s soil with depleted uranium munitions; why not introduce a doctrine of neoconservationism?

    Fernández links to Tom Friedman cheerleading the Iraq war in 2003. Wow, I forgot about his stuff! Or thankfully never read it in the first place. The question arises, Did Tom Friedman make any difference with this kind of talk? And I say of course he did, he helped convince the liberal Establishment to go along with this foolish war. Friedman and Ken Pollack and Bill Keller and David Remnick– the pen is mightier than the sword.”

    Also ‘Hostage’ has an excellent Post up including this Link –

  92. Craig wrote – “The present problems of Iraq are 100% down to our murderous invasion and occupation.”

    Are you sure, Craig? That would imply that Muslims are incapable of resolving their differences or, at least, tolerating them in the absence of an enduring solution. Why not 50%, 66.66% or 99.99% instead of 100%?

    The good people of the Quran had 1400 odd years to get their act together, conquered lands in and on the fringe of Europe and been blessed(?) with a powerful energy resource from which even a small fraction of a share represents a massive inflow of wealth.

    What is it about the religion of peace that it cannot even find harmony within itself with all that wealth of experience and resources? I fail to see how the West can be blamed for the schism of Sunni vs Shia.

    So how is it that the wise people of Islam are so unsophisticated that they can be exploited over their differences by Western savages?

    The trouble with some ideas –

  93. Often enough to be reliable, how things look results deterministically from how things are, hidden in plain sight, reality sometimes hoves into view. Whether that is how it is, it’s undeniably how it looks. Anyone who won’t say so is hoping only to keep themselves fooled that bit longer. Who would it serve if such interpretations were intended but unfounded? that the Empire can proceed under cover of critics being labelled Anti-Septic?

    It’s that threadbare Strongman trope, it irks me, it resembles “too poor, too wee, too stupid”, too Other and too inherently fractious, the muddle-headed oiks -it works as well and is suitably condescending for damping upstart pretensions in the slave reservations at home and abroad, having first got them fighting amongst themselves over trifles, divide et impera, the gift that just keeps giving. A bumper bonus for some entitled few to flaunt, and a fortified yoke for the ever obliging herd to labour under.

    Exciting equal opportunity position for suitably mustachioed Secular Tyrant, no experience or training necessary. Uniform supplied. Apply to Channel 4 with your particulars.

  94. Gilad Atzmon explains clearly for the uninitiated what Oded Yinon means. It is often referred to and is pertinent to the current upheavals. Gilad is well informed. He is called a ‘self hating Jew’ of course.

  95. The war criminal seems to be rather silent at the moment. Nothing to say Tony or are you still prostituting yourself to some group of rich 1%ers? You were recently advocating a touch more war war, on Syria this time. Remember?

  96. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Jun, 2014 - 7:52 am


    I love that sinister sounding “..and beyond”

    Yup, there really is a devilishly cunning Jewish plan for world domination!

  97. Our puny pocket politicians speak, mostly stating the bleedin’ obvious. How about Baker referring only to 179 British lives lost? Could not make it up.

    ‘Iraq chaos is Tony Blair’s legacy’: Intervention by ex-PM in 2003 destabilised the country and left it open to extremism, says Home Office minister
    Government ‘rules out’ new Iraqi campaign despite major Jihadist threat
    Al Qaeda militants have seized large areas of northern Iraq
    Norman Baker said Iraq was stable under Saddam ‘in a vile sort of way’

  98. Off out and off topic! but a lovely read for the weekend here from Alan Bennett. His take on our current condition. His look back at Cambridge in the 50s and the public school louts is good. Has anything really changed?

    Fair Play
    Alan Bennett
    Sermon before the University, King’s College Chapel, Cambridge, 1 June.

  99. @Jemand: It wasn’t just the invasion, it was the commercialisation that came afterwards… remember the “pack of cards” of Saddam’s henchmen – and the rival pack of cards featuring neocon archcapitalists

    “Between Iraq and a Hard Place” : Part 2

  100. Gaia Hepburn

    14 Jun, 2014 - 9:55 am

    I usually skip reading the trolls but I would prefer that they be banned. We all know who they are. They serve no honest purpose.

  101. Sofia Kibo Noh

    14 Jun, 2014 - 10:51 am

    Richard Alan Jones
    13 Jun, 2014 – 12:02 pm

    Spot on!
    “So let me get this right. We support the Iraq government in the fight against ISIS. We don’t like ISIS, but ISIS is supported him, but ISIS is also fighting against him. We don’t like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government in its fight against ISIS. So some of our friends support our enemies, some enemies are now our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, who we want to lose, but we don’t want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win. If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they could be replaced by people we like even less, and all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists who were not actually there until we went in to drive them out. I think I’ve got it.”

    Any chance of your take on the contradictiond of the Nuland Gang’s ATO?

    Meanwhile here’s Aleksandr Zmeyevsky the Russian presidential representative for international cooperation against terrorism and organized crime at the UN on Friday. “Taking actions with a foreign blessing and support to suppress a protest movement, using troops and radical nationalists against civilians under the guise of a fight against terrorism, which is what is happening today in Ukraine, is absolutely unacceptable,”

  102. MSM has reported a lot more on Iraq since the Sunnis advanced on Baghdad than ever it did in the run up to the last Iraq war. There is a theme to what is reported and what is not.

    The BBC and Sky have even reported the shooting down of a Ukrainian forces military plane killing all 49 on board. But it only reports on issues where the government’s forces are attacked making it look like the pro-Russian Ukrainians are the aggressors, like the military helicopter shot down a fortnight ago. Remeber these are military targets. It does not report the mass killing of civilians in the towns (including 20 children) which has gone on over the same period. That is not news. Shameful I call it.

  103. Why would you expect any different, John. There has been a propaganda war going on since 9/11. IMHO, we in the UK used to be able to get a slightly balanced picture was because the BBC had some independence, and was competing for audience with Channel 4. When I saw John Pilger at Hay in 2004, for example, the event was sponsored by Channel 4. After Hutton, Channel 4 managed to continue in this vein… otherwise Rory Bremner & Co’s magnificent satires wouldn’t have been aired. The neutering of Channel 4 News was the final straw.

    Can the MSM filterers achieve “news management” on two fronts though?

  104. Roxy Music’s Brian Eno questions Britain’s involvement in Ukraine, Iraq and Palestine – does the UK have a right to expand NATO and will we ever hear back from the Chilcot Inquiry?

    Bianca Jagger exposes the double standards when it comes to dealing with rape in Sri Lanka because of our own governments arms trade deals with the country.

    Interestingly some 30 years ago I achieved UK political asylum for Sri Lankan friend, Sumi, by using company sponsorship. Sumi and his fatherless family fled the country after government forces destroyed their village, murdered and raped many young girls.

  105. Some of the best coverage on Iraq at the moment is from Aljazeera. They were/are neocon regarding Ukraine, but present more objectively on ISIS, Sistani, and all the other players in the region.

  106. Sofia Kibo Noh

    14 Jun, 2014 - 11:52 am

    While the corporate media turns ever more spectacular sommersaults trying to fit observable reality into the Neocon fantasy narrative, the evidence of multiple breaches of international law continues to mount. All symptoms of the same malady.

    More evidence here,

    Time to pile on the pressure for the perpetrators and their foreign backers to answer for their actions in the international courts?

  107. Will we (the people) get a Chilcot Report, Mark? Only if we follow the same tactics as the Hillsborough families, and that means 20 years hard slog. Are you prepared to keep going until 2023?

  108. Regarding news management, John… how can you manage the news when the “goodies” become the “baddies”.

    This seems to be what has happened with ISIS. They were the goodies in the MSM in Syria. Now they’ve gone over the border to Iraq they are rapidly being re-portrayed as the baddies (spoiling peace and democracy in Iraq). If you tell enough lies, then sooner or later they’ll come back to haunt you!

  109. Tony – you could take over the Low Life column at the Spectator, I am not taking the piss. You might have to add some narrative, but otherwise you are there.

    Guano – congratulations on exceeding the permitted level of craziness. Respect to you for that.

    Wonder if Iran is nervous as to whether ISIS is some sort of trap and whether all is not what it appears? I have no grounds for any such suspicion save that things often are not as they appear; apply Occam’s razor test and then conclude the opposite.

    Habba – all fools are welcome: fake or real.

  110. Peacewisher – The Chilcot report has a ‘big black marker’ over implicating text that entangles Blair/Bush within the ‘Iraq lie’ –

    I am committed to expose this deceit before returning; for the innocent new lives so destroyed and left out of giving back love.

  111. “Regarding news management, John… how can you manage the news when the “goodies” become the “baddies”.”

    Yep. There are no goodies and baddies Peacemaker. Anybody involved in war is a baddie. It’s peace we want. The laws are much better under peace.

  112. In case this disappears from Craig’s view in the lower threads. Important. We have heard it all about the state broadcaster now.

    Better Together film ‘made in BBC studio’

  113. Yes, Jon, but news media have to have goodies and baddies. Makes for more exciting news… and keeps their government happy as well if they get it “the right way round”. BBC now seems to have got them definitely as baddies, must be confusing because Iran now “goodies”. LOL!

    Mark… so am I. But no-one is going to listen to a couple of bloggers. Stop the War Coalition, or (better) Amnesty International should be leading this.

  114. Connecting all this with the last thread…. if Iran and US are now on the same side, where does that leave “Bomb Iran” Blair?

  115. Thanks for the pragmatism Peacemaker – looking back we do have a ‘chunkymark’ intention… and Craig.

  116. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Jun, 2014 - 2:30 pm

    Gaia Hepburn

    “I usually skip reading the trolls but I would prefer that they be banned. We all know who they are. They serve no honest purpose”

    I absolutely agree with you, Gaia.

    It is sad to see how this blog of Craig’s, started with the noblest of intentions, has been turned into a kind of mixture between a semi-private chatroom for a few self-important,lonely people and a platform for the vapourings of assorted shills, paid for by God knows whom: the PLO/Hamas shills, the Iran shills, the rasPutin/Russia is better shills, and so on.

    They should be laughed off the blog. I have made a start on this and have been joined by a small number of other posters who have the good of this blog at heart, but as you know, the trolls are legion. Please do what YOU can to help and ask your friends to do likewise! Many thanks.

  117. Mark,
    I understand why chunkymark shouts so much – he wants us to see his anger at the system, he doesn’t want us to be complacent, he wants us to be angry too …. fair enough. But I HATE being shouted at, by anybody, even by someone I agree with, who’s on my side. So I can’t ever last through a full video of him. Pity, cos he’s one of the good guys.

  118. That above was from the troll who contributes NOTHING here except dissent, distortion, distraction, and destruction.×300.jpg

  119. Beyond Iraq and a Hard Place
    Bremner, Bird and Fortune.

    We don’t have satire like this nowadays.

    There are 3 more parts linked on the page.

  120. I missed this but I expect the subject of Iraq came up.

    Rushanara Ali MP,
    Charles Moore,
    George Galloway MP,
    Nigel Evans MP
    Duration: 48 minutes
    First broadcast:Friday 13 June 2014
    Jonathan Dimbleby presents political debate from the Althorp Literary Festival in Northampton with Shadow Education Minister Rushanara Ali MP, Respect MP for Bradford George Galloway, Former Deputy Speaker Nigel Evans MP and the columnist and official biographer for Margaret Thatcher Charles Moore.

    plus Any Answers which was on today

  121. Peacewisher 14 Jun, 2014 – 12:58 pm
    “… so am I. But no-one is going to listen to a couple of bloggers. Stop the War Coalition, or (better) Amnesty International should be leading this.”


    Our desire for others to act on our behalf is learned, stupefying and bound to disappoint.

    Out of interest where do you blog?

  122. Jemand

    I do agree that it is hard to understand, when the Qur’an tells us to worship God alone, the Shi’a worship saints. It is difficult to understand how they believe in the book, understand the Arabic, but refuse to obey its instructions.

    But it’s easy to understand why they do it. If God delegated His power to the prophet SAW, and he delegated it to holy men, and a little bit for the Queen, and a bit for the Royal Mail…and a little bit for the Ayatollah and his brainless hordes of fighters.

    The children of Israel were deceived into worshipping the twinkle dust put into the golden calf. So it follows quite easily that Shi’a can also be deceived.

    In both cases they were not deceived until after they received clear instructions not to do the worship they ended up doing.

    How can Muslims force people to not to do what they have had clear instructions not to do. The US gave Maliki a chance to form a new country in Iraq. They say if you took commonsense down to the market place no one would buy it. Those who have it have no need for it, and those who do not have it would consider it a waste of time.

    Malik has just done what Saddam used to do, buy CIA weaponry. That should have been sufficient warning to him that his neck was on the block. Might come in handy for Daish to use on Assad though.

    When Daish do that, its time for the US to intervene on them.

  123. I guess that shouting is like a dog barking A Node, to alert the pack to danger. It is the artist taxi driver’s signature.

  124. Another one of these female loudmouths from the US State department has just been shown making a accusatory statement about the Ukrainian separatists and blaming them for the downing of a Kiev plane in which 49 died when it crashed. Does she have evidence for her accusations?

    One Marie Harf. ex CIA and she majored in Jewish Studies and Russian and European Studies. On the last elect Obomber election trail.

    That all fits.

    She is from the same department as Psakis.

  125. doug scorgie

    14 Jun, 2014 - 7:55 pm

    Now the fucking Pope tells of his doubts over Scottish independence.

    The West Central and Highlands being Catholic and the rest being Protestant.

    Divide and rule:

    “Pope voices fears over Scottish independence”

    “The Pontiff argues that the break-up of Yugoslavia was justified but questions whether “things are quite as clear” for other independence movements, including that in Scotland”

    What a complete tosser!

  126. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Jun, 2014 - 8:13 pm

    “That above was from the troll who contributes NOTHING here except dissent, distortion, distraction, and destruction.”

    Which is a bit rich coming from the bitch who mindlessly cuts and pastes away the whole day and never ever responds to perfectly reasonable and pertinent questions.

    Ni discussion, no reasoning, no thought, no follow through.

    An ostrich bitch.

  127. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Jun, 2014 - 8:17 pm

    More from the bitch:

    “Another one of these female loudmouths from the US State department……One Marie Harf. ex CIA and she majored in Jewish Studies and Russian and European Studies.”

    Why don’t you come into the open and say it, Mary – SHE’S A ….JOOOOOOOO!!


    Habbabkuk against sly anti-Jewishness, racism and sexism

  128. “Does she have evidence for her accusations?”

    I don’t believe anybody is actually denying it.

    RT are reporting the plane was shot down with a missile and the pro Russian Ukrainian forces are confirming it.

  129. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Jun, 2014 - 8:24 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “The Pontiff argues that the break-up of Yugoslavia was justified but questions whether “things are quite as clear” for other independence movements, including that in Scotland”

    Sounds quite reasonable to me as a point for discussion, Doug. What exactly are you objecting to?

    And please state whether or not you think that the Holy Father is allowed to have a view and to express it, Doug.


    “Now the fucking Pope tells of his doubts over Scottish independence……What a complete tosser!”

    Whatever the Holy Father’s view is, Doug, I suspect he manages to express it slightly more elegantly than you do. But he is, of course, an educated man.


    Lq vita è bella, life is good!

    “Now the fucking Pope tells of his doubts over Scottish independence.

  130. Apparently some guy walked into a Glasgow Ladbrokes today and put £400k on No. That is, by some accounts, the largest ever political bet placed in the UK. He has undoubtedly landed himself £290,000, tax free. I see Ladbrokes are no longer accepting bets over £137.50 on the Scotch bottling it.


    14 Jun, 2014 - 8:40 pm

    Even the ex Hitler Youth/Pope was lightly beginning to clean the house of pedophiles. Frankie? Meh.

    While it may be understandable that Bergoglio was unwilling to risk his life during the “Dirty War,” which would have been threatened had he vigorously spoken out against the military dictatorship’s human rights abuses, it is far less understandable why, for the longest time, he has remained virtually indifferent to those who suffered at the hands of sexually abusive clergy in Argentina.

    The Washington Post’s Nick Miroff recently reported on the case of Father Julio Cesar Grassi, an Argentine priest who, in 2009 was convicted of sexual abuse, and is now free on appeal. According to Miroff, “in the years after Grassi’s conviction, Bergoglio … has declined to meet with the victim of the priest’s crimes or the victims of other predations by clergy under his leadership. He did not offer personal apologies or financial restitution, even in cases in which the crimes were denounced by other members of the church and the offending priests were sent to jail.”

    There is no evidence, Miroff reported, that Bergoglio “played a role in covering up abuse cases.” However, “during most of the 14 years that Bergoglio served as archbishop of Buenos Aires, [prominent] rights advocates say, he did not take decisive action to protect children or act swiftly when molestation charges surfaced; nor did he extend apologies to the victims of abusive priests after their misconduct came to light.”

    Ernesto Moreau, a member of Argentina’s U.N.-affiliated Permanent Assembly for Human Rights and a lawyer who has represented victims in a clergy sexual-abuse case told the Associated Press that “Bergoglio has been the strongest man in the Argentine church since the beginning of this century, [and yet] the leadership of the church has never done anything to remove these people from these places, and neither has it done anything to relieve the pain of the victims.”

  132. 400k on No vote?

    Never knew Salmond was a gambler :-)

  133. Well, if the authoritarians and elites are agin it, it’s most likely good for the peeps.

    This is The Reformation all over again.

    People are increasingly seeing the elites for the decadent destructive lying thieving parasites they are.

    New forms of communication sidestepping the elite’s mass media, rationalism, individual thinking and of course the pampleteers on their blogs.

    The Holy Father.

    Are you an adult child, habby.

  134. What is it you have against the Pope, Herbie? Washing and kissing the feet of convicts too elitist for you?


    14 Jun, 2014 - 9:11 pm

    “Washing and kissing the feet of convicts too elitist for you?”

    Sandpaper and varnish won’t cure the dry rot and wormy woodiness.

  136. Get back to the peace pipe, Ben. You’re not making any sense!

  137. Bush and Blair: ‘Let’s go to bed.’ ‘Let’s go to war.’

  138. The bet story is as are most of them, a stunt, it never happened outside the made reality of the mainstream media, the Daily Record (circulation: the plughole) once again blunders, they should, but no doubt will not apologise for misleading the public, but misleading the public is what they do, it is their core function, it has Daily Sport levels of credibility and merely fabricates filler between the Arnold Clark adverts and idolising New Labour nonentities, crooks and thieves. The innumerate “Anon” has doubled the amount from 200k to 400k, and it didn’t happen “today” as you claim, or yesterday, or last week when the story was last printed in the Record, and probably didn’t happen in June 2013 either, though it was a year ago when the press release on the William Hill website was dated, which the Record lifted last week, in their desperation to please Miliband D.

    Comments on the article suggest the whole thing is fishy tale from start to finish, a publicity stunt by William Hill, I’ve never been inside a betting shop in my life, but insiders suggest in the real world such things do not, could not happen as described.

  139. “Man bets £400,000 on Scotland saying ‘no'”

    4 days ago.

    William Hill though, not Ladbrokes.

  140. Tony M,


    Although i made a joke of it earlier i immediately sensed the ‘story’ reeks of shite.

    Nowt new there with regard to the abysmal Daily Record.

    File under pish.

  141. Mary aka Habbabkuk's Bitch

    14 Jun, 2014 - 9:46 pm

    Anon Scotch is whisky. Scots are the people.


    In come the trolls two by two just like Noah’s menagerie.

  142. Mary aka Habbabkuk's Bitch

    14 Jun, 2014 - 9:50 pm

    Is there some schizophrenia present or are there more than one Habbabkuks?

    These on Squonk yesterday which I thought were really sweet.

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella! { You forgot to mention far fewer butterflies. } – Jun 13, 9:02 PM The General Discussion…

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella! { Mary Just to tell you that I do like reading your posts about animals and nature generally…. } – Jun 13, 9:01 PM The General Discussion

  143. ” Scotch is whisky. ”

    or eggs, tape, mist, pie, broth or a Corner.

  144. Mary aka Habbabkuk's Bitch

    14 Jun, 2014 - 9:57 pm

    So what has Petro got in mind? Doesn’t he know the saying You reap what you sow?

    14 June 2014
    Ukraine’s Poroshenko vows response to Luhansk plane downing

    Ukraine’s new president Petro Poroshenko is taking on a poisoned inheritance

  145. Mary

    Beyond Iraq and a Hard Place

    The situation is awful and can only be mourned.

  146. Aahhh. The problem isn’t that there is too much war in the world, it’s that there isn’t enough ……

    “The world just hasn’t had that much warfare lately, at least not by historical standards. Some of the recent headlines about Iraq or South Sudan make our world sound like a very bloody place, but today’s casualties pale in light of the tens of millions of people killed in the two world wars in the first half of the 20th century. Even the Vietnam War had many more deaths than any recent war involving an affluent country.”

    …. and apparently war is good for us …..

    “It may seem repugnant to find a positive side to war in this regard, but a look at American history suggests we cannot dismiss the idea so easily. Fundamental innovations such as nuclear power, the computer and the modern aircraft were all pushed along by an American government eager to defeat the Axis powers or, later, to win the Cold War. The Internet was initially designed to help this country withstand a nuclear exchange, and Silicon Valley had its origins with military contracting, not today’s entrepreneurial social media start-ups. “

    OK. Right.

  147. Calling Scots “Scotch” elicits just the sort of precious whinging reaction one hopes for when using the term, the only surprise this time being that it comes from a Surreyite.

  148. This is the way the world ends, not with a bang, but a whimper.

  149. Mary aka Habbabkuk's Bitch

    14 Jun, 2014 - 10:29 pm

    As you say Jay, there is no peace for any of us anywhere in this still beautiful world that we inhabit.

    But in spite of the seriousness of the present situation on many fronts, Agent Cameron found time to wish the footballing millionaires well for tonight. He is so like BLiar now, it’s laughable.

    He has a namesake LOL

    Cameron the lion, who lives at Bristol Zoo, has chosen an England victory tonight having had three boxes of meat to choose from, England, Italy and the draw.

    Remember that clever octopus?

  150. Excellent post – Craig.

    I came against this interesting website:

    Pure speculation but wasn’t this the time of Adam Werrity and Liam Fox?

    What have we started?

    Can we not ban Habbabkuk? He’s gone too far this time.

  151. Resident Dissident

    14 Jun, 2014 - 10:41 pm


    Those objecting to the use of Scotch clearly never read the preface to AJP Taylor’s English History 1914-1945

    “Some inhabitants of Scotland now call themselves Scots and their affairs Scottish. They are entitled to do so. The English word for both is Scotch, just as we call les français the French and Deutschland Germany. Being English, I use it.”

  152. As expected.

    Tony Blair rejects ‘bizarre’ claims that invasion of Iraq caused the crisis
    ‘We have to liberate ourselves from the notion that “we” caused this’, argues former prime minister in website essay

    The Observer, Saturday 14 June 2014 22.16 BST

    The article refers to his ‘essay’ on his Faith Foundation website but I cannot see it there.

  153. Resident Dissident

    14 Jun, 2014 - 10:53 pm

    “I came against this interesting website:”

    Nah – I don’t think so

    “Can we not ban Habbabkuk? He’s gone too far this time.”

    I think Habba can point to at least 10 insults for everyone he gives out in return – but strangely enough never a call for the banning of those giving out the most insults. Mary for example has yet to even provide an explanation for her “something of the Talmud comment” about Peter Mandelson a few weeks back.

  154. R2D2 How strange that you should know about that slime. You are not the author of it by any chance are you?

    PS Michel Chossudovsky knows of it too

  155. Give it a week, it’ll be some other paper, and 600k. Osborne’s robots really need to get a grip on inflation, this quantatitive-easing lark is getting out of hand, can’t the comeback-kid clunking-fist Brown come back and do one last favour for humanity?

    You can’t make this stuff up, but they do, surprisingly often. The Telegraph hack’s article doesn’t say Ladbrokes, but William Hill, as did the Daily Record one -I wish you, or they would make up their minds which bookmaker and stick with it, the bookie’s runner spokesmuppet named in both articles is the same, one Graham Sharpe, and he seems pleased and confident in his well-vetted and hauntingly familiar statement, that they – William Hill – will be keeping any money wagered (less the chancellor’s take) -it doesn’t sound like there’ll be much spectral jam tomorrow for this phantom anonymous punter. Here we have more of Blair’s toxic legacies, along with Iraq: divisive happy-clappy ‘faith’ schools, vampire banks and now record levels of gambling and parasitic back-street bookies spreading like a nasty rash. Casino Loyal, where once mighty engines forged the modern world, our fate turns now on George Osbourne getting a full-house at the bingo.

    The newspapers have entered the silly-season Olympics with a series of spectacular flops.

  156. Resident – I wouldn’t believe too much on rational wiki…

    A moment’s internet research would be wise.

  157. The interesting thing is just how media popular the past few popes have become.

    They’re now biggin’em up.

    Ratso’s visit to Westminster was an absolute disgrace. All that curtseying and crawling from the political and media class. It was very creepy, as if a bigger boss had come to town.

    Big shift from not so long ago.

    And this Pope Francis, Assisi, the Jesuit, who didn’t go along with Liberation Theology during the fascist days in South America, and now he’s kissing ugly people, disabled people, poor people and gods knows what else.

    I mean, if people can’t see all this nonsense for the media charade it is, then it’s not surprising they’re always on their knees.

  158. If true, it is outrageous. I am told that on the BBC ‘News’ it was announced that BLiar is coming on Marr tomorrow morning. The blurb only mentions John Reid and Sajid Javid.

    Perhaps the likes of BLiar’s mate has been leaned on and James Harding too, Director News and Current Affairs and Zionist supporter.

    Apologists for Israel take top posts at BBC

  159. Herbie Did you know that Patten Chairman of the BBC Trust was seconded to organize the Ratzinger visit. Wasn’t it excruciating and each minute of it was covered by the BBC. It must have cost a fortune.

    Pope visit declared ‘overwhelming success’ by Lord Patten
    The Pope’s visit to Britain has been an “overwhelming success”, according to the Government’s organiser.

  160. Yes, Mary

    Patten is a famous English Roman Catholic. Earlier in his career this was pointed out at every available opportunity, for some reason.

    But yes, it was very weird and creepy. Ratso looked like Klaus Kinski in Nosferatu with his pointy red shoes and dark eyes.

    However, this was a very political moment.

    Interesting perhaps to look at how much they were hit in media, across the Western world over the child abuse scandals.

    Not so much of that now in media internationally, but if you look locally you’ll see there is much yet to resolve.

    Looks to me like they were hit with the child abuse stuff to change their mind about something.

    Must have worked.

    The media campaign is over, and they’re rehabilitated and being crept to again.

    I’d love to see a mass media campaign against Councils and their care of children. Seems we only ever get that in incidental form, and no overall narrative is ever constructed.

  161. Its all just Roman theatre and PR.

    Ratzy was told to do one cos he wasnt telegenic.

    Beergoggler was fixed in as the new,ahem,touchy feely geezer.

    The rest is guff.

  162. Mary – if you really want to read Blair’s full demented denial

  163. Resident Dissident

    15 Jun, 2014 - 1:07 am

    “R2D2 How strange that you should know about that slime”

    “Resident – I wouldn’t believe too much on rational wiki…

    A moment’s internet research would be wise.”

    That’s where a moment’s internet research into Global Research led me – and everything it said appeared to be revealing and well sourced – I note its healthy skepticism towards the usual conspiracy theories. Of course Mary calling it “slime” would be a another argument in its favour.

  164. Resident Dissident

    15 Jun, 2014 - 1:15 am

    “Mary – if you really want to read Blair’s full demented denial”

    Of course she does – she hangs on his every word don’t you know – she’s Dorking equivalent of the old ladies in Clochmerle who monitored the public urinals so as confirm how they offended public decency.

  165. Blair’s ‘demented denial’ in part from his diatribe:

    Once the regime changes, then out come pouring all the tensions – tribal, ethnic and of course above all religious; and the rebuilding of the country, with functioning institutions and systems of Government, becomes incredibly hard. The extremism de-stabilises the country, hinders the attempts at development, the sectarian divisions become even more acute and the result is the mess we see all over the region.

    So after invading Iraq, what measures where put in place to rebuild ‘with functioning institutions and systems of Iraq’s Government’?

    (Leaving aside the dictum ‘if you break it you own it’ for the moment.)

    1) Appoint a total cretin like Bremer who banned the Baathist party and disbanded the Army, 400,000 immediately without income and not happy campers (not Blair’s fault, poodle factor – even the Brits used Japanese soldiers for security after Japan’s surrender)
    2) Bremer the cretin again, ignoring the socialist economy, tries to privatise infrastructure and natural resources.
    2) In the meantime, stand by and watch while the nation’s treasures are looted.
    3) Allow the sectarian divisions to deepen by allowing/encouraging ethnic cleansing of Sunnis
    4) With Sunni political grievances largely unanswered, (exclusion and discrimination against Baathist party members for example irrespective of culpability under Saddam) create the circumstances for extremist groups to flock to Iraq.
    5) Spend the next 8 years fighting the extremists with ‘collateral damage’ among civilians reaching appalling levels, likely hundreds of thousands. Such extremist in such numbers having never existed before, especially in Iraq.
    6) When the ethnic cleansing was practically complete, tell the world it was the ‘surge’ that did it, ignore the underlying cauldron of hatred created among even moderate Sunnis
    7) Engineer the accession of a Sunni hater like Maliki to power.
    8) Prop up Maliki and help him smash even Shia rivals.
    9) Allow/turn a blind eye to torture centres, Abu Ghraib etc
    10) When it all goes belly up, withdraw, blame the Yanks, blame now the events in Syria creating ISIS ignoring the support of same by Saudi Arabia, who not incidently wanted to smash Saddam in the first place etc etc

    Tony Blair is one sick poodle.

  166. There appears to be conflagrations everywhere. LIbya is still screwed, we must recall, who knows what’s happening in Ukraine, and Iraq, well, that sad basket case of a country is screwed for a generation, probably more. And yet, there is talk of more of the same. These neocons really can’t learn a single thing. Obama has, true to his usual tactic, said something reasonable, then belied it instantly, perhaps under pressure from the militant wing of neocons. Air strikes already on the cards. I also read something about a tactical alliance with Iran, through the looking glass stuff there. And apparently Bliar will be on our screens soon, doubtless telling us what we must do. Prick. What he should do is STFU, but he won’t.

    “The BBC News this morning said that ISIS would not be capable of using the billions of dollars of sophisticated western armaments they have captured.”

    Ah, the beardy goat-molesting terrorist ignoramus meme. Well, they seem to have taken time of from goat-troubling, and defeated the Iraqi army, so I think the bbc might have got this one wrong, as usual. The amount of misinformation floating around, I just don’t bother these days. Blogs tell you more than well-funded media outlets, well some of them.


    15 Jun, 2014 - 2:03 am

    umm. yes. Ukraine seems to be slightly out-of-focus. mebbe someone can bring it back to the foreground. The rope-a-dope strategem seems to be a winner. Look over here, no here. So it goes. No one seems that interested, yet.

  168. Sofia Kibo Noh

    15 Jun, 2014 - 2:33 am

    Dad was in high spirits at 8 13pm when he was showing RD how grown-ups do debates and stuff.

    ”Which is a bit rich coming from the bitch who mindlessly cuts and pastes away the whole day and never ever responds to perfectly reasonable and pertinent questions.

    Ni discussion, no reasoning, no thought, no follow through.

    An ostrich bitch.”

    Who could take issue with such a calm and reasoned explanation?

    Impressed with his own brilliance he drained the last bottle and just managed to shake RD from his stupor before taking a well earned kip.

    So, the US wants to provoke a war with Russia over Ukraine.

    While there’s no doubt people will die in large numbers, what are the chances of success if they get their war?

    I feel there must be a pattern somewhere here if only I could make it out.

    “Lebanon: US wanted a new Middle-East.  Fail.

    Iraq: US wanted to built a client-state.  Fail.

    Afghanistan: US wanted to eliminate the Taliban.  Fail.

    Pakistan: US wanted to eliminate the Taliban. Fail.

    Syria: US wanted to regime-change Assad. Fail.

    Egypt: US wanted to create a client state. Fail.

    Libya: US wanted to create a client state. Fail.

    Chechnia: US wanted to subvert Russia and control the Caucaus. Fail.

    Georgia: US wanted to subvert Russia and control the Caucasus. Fail.

    KSA: US wanted an alliance with KSA over Syria. Fail

    Qatar: US wanted Qatari support over oil prices and Russia. Fail.

    Yemen: US wanted to destroy al-Qaeda. Fail.

    Somalia: 20 years ago the US wanted to take Somalia under control. Fail.”


  169. BrianFujisan

    15 Jun, 2014 - 2:58 am

    Well said Sofia

    here too, is Abby reminding us of cia crimes over the years…just Some of an Endless List –

    Abby Martin goes over some of the Most outrageous CIA opperations around the world…

  170. IF you can lose your head when some of the British public about you,
    Were losing their loved ones in Iraq and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself to fuck it up when some men doubted you to do that,
    But make no allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting for post prime ministership millions,
    Or being told the truth about yourself, but still deal in lies,
    Or being hated, give way to self-righteousness,
    And yet always wanting to look good, and talking gobbledygook.

    If you can dream of being Bush’s poodle – and make those dreams your master;
    If you can think of cheating- and getting Goldsmith to retract his opinion on unlawful war;
    If you can meet with Disaster and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors Bush and Cheney just the same with fawning sycophancy;
    If you can bear to hear the truth that others have spoken about you being a war criminal;
    Twisted as you were by false concoctions of WMD at 45 minutes notice to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, GWOT and the lies on WMD, broken,
    And stoop and build ‘em up with worn-out tools of even more self righteousness

    If you can bullshit political crowds and lose your virtue,
    Or walk with Kings of Wall Street and other US filthy rich – and lose the common touch,
    if all your foes and some loving friends are hurting you,
    If very few men count with you, excepting neo-cons, dictators and other warmongers;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of lies and further obfuscation run,
    Yours is not the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And – which is more – you’ll be Tony Blair, that bastard one!

    (Hat tip to Rudyard Kipling)

  171. On June 13, Bangkok-based geopolitical analyst and writer Tony Cartalucci in an article, entitled NATO’s Terror Hordes in Iraq a Pretext for Syria Invasion has cleared some of the fog surrounding the evildoers behind the so-called “ISIL Islamists”.

    “In actuality, ISIS is the product of a joint NATO-GCC conspiracy stretching back as far as 2007 where US-Saudi policymakers sought to ignite a region-wide sectarian war to purge the Middle East of Iran’s arch of influence stretching from its borders, across Syria and Iraq, and as far west as Lebanon and the coast of the Mediterranean. ISIS has been harbored, trained, armed, and extensively funded by a coalition of NATO and Persian Gulf states within Turkey’s (NATO territory) borders and has launched invasions into northern Syria with, at times, both Turkish artillery and air cover,” says Cartalucci.

    “The alleged territorial holdings of ISIS cross over both Syrian and Iraqi borders meaning that any campaign to eradicate them from Iraqi territory can easily spill over into Syria’s borders. And that is exactly the point. With ISIS having ravaged Mosul, Iraq near the Turkish border and moving south in a terror blitzkrieg now threatening the Iraqi capital of Baghdad itself, the Iraqi government is allegedly considering calling for US and/or NATO assistance to break the terror wave,” adds Cartalucci.

    The Jewish-controlled Western media is capitalizing on ISIS’ notorious brutality, including mass beheadings and hundreds of thousands of civilians fleeing before them, is part of anti-Muslim campaign to pave the way for the so-called “humanitarian intervention” in both Syria and Iraq to further Balkanize the Middle East for the evil interests of Israel.

  172. Ah dear, Tony Bliar has waded in, as we knew he would. I almost feel sorry for the guy, he’s evidently in need of professional help. His ‘contribution’, however, is from the standard neocon play book. We did nothing wrong. Everything is as it should be. Nobody made a mistake, nobody resigns and nobody gets fired. Go back to bed, world.

    I’ve yet to see a single neocon change his\her mind about the invasion. The facts speak for themselves, but still every neocon sticks by their position. I’ve no explanation for this, other than perhaps they have been advised to hold the line by their expensive lawyers. Or, they are scared of retribution …

    Personally I think The Guardian should stop giving Bliar air-time, but that’s not going to happen.

  173. The BBC have put Blair at the top of their home page.

    LATEST:Blair: ‘We didn’t cause Iraq crisis’
    The 2003 invasion of Iraq is not to blame for the current crisis in the country, which is the “predictable” result of western inaction in Syria, Tony Blair says.
    US deploys warship amid Iraq crisis UK offers £3m for Iraq aid effort Iraq crisis: Reporters’ round-up Deal over Bush-Blair Iraq documents MPs’ vote halts UK action over Syria

    The accompanying photo, taken in 2006, has the pair in quizzical mode with Bush slightly out of focus. Is that supposed to imply that he’s the Wicked Witch and the clear eyed and staring BLiar the Goody Two Shoes?

  174. From an interview with the late Clarissa Dickson Wright.

    ‘It’s not just her own private life up for grabs. Clarissa’s time at the Bar overlapped with that of several prominent New Labourites, and she’ll discusses their escapades with equal gusto: ‘Cherie Blair was clever but desperately needy and always jumping on Derry Irvine.’ I wince. ‘Actually, Derry Irvine was quite a sexy guy back then,’ says Clarissa. ‘He radiated intelligence.’ And then there’s Tony Blair. ‘He was a few years younger than me but I remember him well. He was very glib, a chancer and, you know, he wasn’t really respected by anyone of my generation. Everybody used to say, it’s just as well he’s going into politics because he’ll never succeed at the Bar. We used to call him Miranda.’ Because he was wet? ‘No, no, he wasn’t called Miranda because he was wet, ducky!’ Clarissa guffaws impatiently. ‘Remember that scene in The Tempest when Miranda sees the sailors? Well then. He got on conspicuously well with all the male junior clerks. Everybody knew it.’ But he’s married now, I say. ‘So are a lot of people.’’

    Perhaps Resident Dissident in his little swipe at me above, and referring to Clochemerle, was subconsciously thinking of the stories that circulated about Blair’s activities in his early years in such a place in London

  175. We have to liberate ourselves from the notion that ‘we’ have caused this, might think Tony Blair is not a war criminal.


    Mary I think Bush being out of focus in that pic simply reflected the need for Tony to look more intelligent and stern while in the company of a cowboy idiot.

    Better suggestion than Blair’s: To recover some moral authority towards the ME, either Tony Blair surrenders to the ICC with handwritten confession OR he be allowed to exercise the courage of his ‘use force’ convictions and is parachuted into Mosul as the advance party of further (Coalition of Unrepresentative Swill) military action.

  176. BLiar is of course the Quartet Peace Envoy which is a great irony in the light of his recent outpourings for more war.

    Has he ever left his luxury hotel suite in Jerusalem and been into a Palestinian home and spoken with the members of the family? Would he have ever met this gentleman? Probably not.

    ‘ON RADIO 4 TODAY, SUNDAY, 15 JUNE 2014 AT 11.15 AM
    Raja Shehadeh
    Kirsty Young’s castaway this week is the Palestinian author and human rights activist, Raja Shehadeh.

    Born in Ramallah in the West Bank, his life and writing has been dominated by displacement, struggle and a search for justice. His father was murdered in 1985 and aside from chronicling the unhappy history of his family and his homeland, he’s also co-founded the Palestinian human rights organisation Al-Haq – which monitors and documents violations by all sides in the Middle East conflict, publishing reports and detailed legal analysis on its findings.

    Amid the heavy weight of his work he somehow finds time to nurture a glorious garden growing grapevines and pomegranates.

    He says of his work, “When you write your thoughts and feelings and emotions … then you can move on to new ones. Otherwise, they will keep rotating in your mind and you will go in circles”.’

    The use of the word ‘conflict’ irritates. There is an Occupier oppressing the Occupied. Just like the word ‘intervention’ is used by the corporate media instead of ‘offensive war and invasion’.

  177. Quite so Peter Kemp but he is protected in many ways and by many people.

    I liked your version of ‘If’.

    Thatcher liked to quote it. So did old Dan Maskell in his commentating at that relic of the British Empire, the All England Croquet and Lawn Tennis Club, where the poem is displayed on a plaque over the entrance to Centre Court.

  178. The Marr blurb is still not saying BLiar is on.

    ’15/06/2014 9am
    Image for 15/06/2014Not currently available on BBC iPlayer
    Duration: 1 hour

    Andrew Marr is joined by key political personalities and cultural figures to discuss topical politics, current affairs and the arts. His guests include culture secretary Sajid Javid, former home secretary and member of the Better Together campaign John Reid, and actress Kathleen Turner. Victoria Newton, editor of the Sun on Sunday, and Mark Kermode, author and film critic, review the newspapers.’

  179. Protected he is, Mary, more’s the pity. (O Tempora, O Mores, O Shit we can forgive Cicero for leaving out Tony Blair)

    Having said that, some Shakespeare in a predictive context springs to mind:

    Nothing in his life
    Became him like the leaving it.

  180. I just cant get excited about a sporting event that a government has spent millions funding yet people live in squalor and deprivation. Where drugs are rife and life expectation is very low.

    But enough of the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, the World Cup has started.

  181. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Jun, 2014 - 8:57 am

    From Jives (the Creature of the Night)

    “Although i made a joke of it earlier i immediately sensed the ‘story’ reeks of shite.”

    Yeah, sure, Jonathan.

    First you believe the story and get very excited.

    Then you read some bit of shite from far away Califiorniay and change your mind.

    And finally you tell us you “immediately sensed” the story was untrue.

    Funny way of showing it, eh, Jives?

    Grown up persons aren’t afraid to admit they make mistakes, Jonathan.


    La vita é bella, life is good!

  182. What the swill of the corporate media omits in its reporting on Ukraine.

    ‘At Chernobyl, a compendium of more than 5,000 studies has yielded an estimated death toll of more than 1,000,000 people.

    The radiation effects on youngsters in downwind Belarus and Ukraine have been horrific. According to Mangano, some 80 percent of the “Children of Chernobyl” born downwind since the accident have been harmed by a wide range of impacts ranging from birth defects and thyroid cancer to long-term heart, respiratory and mental illnesses. The findings mean that just one in five young downwinders can be termed healthy.

    Physicians for Social Responsibility and the German chapter of the International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War have warned of parallel problems near Fukushima.’

    Fukushima’s Children are Dying

    There is another time bomb waiting to explode in Iraq following the use of depleted uranium tipped ammunition on a large scale. It’s in the dust and the air when the desert storms arise and now in the thyroids and lungs of the children and of the women of childbearing age and in their husbands’ zoosperm to terrible effect.

    In fact all of us are vulnerable as the winds carry the evil poison around the planet.

  183. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Jun, 2014 - 9:08 am


    “Habbabkuk (La vita è bella! { Mary Just to tell you that I do like reading your posts about animals and nature generally…. } – Jun 13, 9:01 PM The General Discussion”

    No schizophrenia anywhere, Mary. Your writings about nature and animals are evocative, sometimes moving and welcome (except when you’re trying to make a narrow political point – which isn’t usually the case). Perhaps you just go into off the wall mode when you write about politics, society and so on. Or perhaps you’re less of a pain in real life than you are in this virtual world – I’m informed that this is often the case. Opinions welcome.

  184. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Jun, 2014 - 9:20 am

    Resident Dissident

    ““I came against this interesting website:”

    Nah – I don’t think so

    I just wanted to thank you for posting that source – I wasn’t aware of the existence of this thing called “rationalwiki”.

    Anyway, as readers will know, I have long harboured doubts (to remain polite)about this “Global Research” outfit – these doubts triggered by its excessively pretentious title and then by the fact that it was often given as a source by sundry crazies on CM.

    I am pleased to note that my doubts about “Global Research” and its leader (its one and only leader, it seems) “Professor” Michel Chussodovski are amply confirmed by what I read on “rationalwiki”.

    I must go there (to “rationalwiki” more often and the said sundry crazies should go to “Global Research” less.

  185. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Jun, 2014 - 9:33 am

    I loved that pastiche by “Peter Kemp” at 03h44 this morning. A rival to our resident pasticher, the Celtic trans-gender leprechaun, has emerged and that’s good because competition is good.

    More generally, I note that this last night was “enriched” by a peculiarly large number of Eminences and others. They couldn’t all have beeen doing the night shift like Jives, could they. Was there a full moon last night by any chance?

  186. Peter Kemp. 3 44am

    Great reworking of “IF”.

    May Bliar have a long life, always aware of the harm he’s inflicted and the contempt in which he’s held by millions and always looking over his shoulder for the citizen’s arrest that succeeds.

    My bet is when he finally goes to meet Old Nick the street partys will dwarf Thatcher’s.

    In the meantime my wish is for him to answer in court for his crimes before being sent to Fallujah for an extended sentence of community service. That way, he’ll have to look into the eyes of some of the people whose lives he has blighted.

    Brian. 2 58am

    Thanks for the clip. Abby just scratches the surface with her list of shame.

    Maybe she should run a series. My favourites would be the thirty plus attempts to assassinate Castro. These included exploding wetsuits, exploding cigars, exploding clamshells, powder in his shoes to make his hair fall out, (so that Cubans would rise up chanting “No vamos a ser gobernados por un hombre que se parece a William Hague!”) and trying to make it appear as if Armaggedon had come…. with Jesus descending from Heaven.

    Too bad they blackmailed Mr Bean and the Wily Coyote and forced them to think up dumb schemes for them.

  187. BLiar was speaking from somewhere hot in a garden with palm trees in the background and an ornate wall behind him. He spoke at 15 to the dozen with those damnable hand gestures evident. I feel, having heard and seen the paramount psychopath this morning, that with luck he is hanging himself.

    An appalling apecimen of our species.

    Marr of course has memory loss.

    ‘On April 9, 2003, as Baghdad superficially fell to the illegal US-UK invasion, Marr lauded Blair’s great triumph on the main BBC evening news:

    “Frankly, the main mood [in Downing Street] is of unbridled relief. I’ve been watching ministers wander around with smiles like split watermelons.”

    Marr delivered this news with his own watermelon smile. He continued:

    “Well, I think this does one thing – it draws a line under what, before the war, had been a period of… well, a faint air of pointlessness, almost, was hanging over Downing Street. There were all these slightly tawdry arguments and scandals. That is now history. Mr Blair is well aware that all his critics out there in the party and beyond aren’t going to thank him – because they’re only human – for being right when they’ve been wrong. And he knows that there might be trouble ahead, as I said. But I think this is very, very important for him. It gives him a new freedom and a new self-confidence. He confronted many critics.

    “I don’t think anybody after this is going to be able to say of Tony Blair that he’s somebody who is driven by the drift of public opinion, or focus groups, or opinion polls. He took all of those on. He said that they would be able to take Baghdad without a bloodbath, and that in the end the Iraqis would be celebrating. And on both of those points he has been proved conclusively right. And it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man and a stronger prime minister as a result.” (Marr, BBC 1, News At Ten, April 9, 2003)’

    and of course we won’t mention Aaronovitch and Cohen’s part in the propaganda for that bloody war.

  188. Resident Dissident

    15 Jun, 2014 - 10:00 am

    Mary many thanks for demonstrating my point so quickly.

  189. Considering all the garbage from the neocon rational wiki as opposed to the real investigative journalism of GlobalResearch it does not surprise me that it has attracted followers like Resident Dissident and Habbabkuk. I came across this doing a search.

    If you want your brain full of it read on. It’s produced by idiots for idiots. And they take the bait.

  190. @

    I would prefer not to have my character and personality discussed by somebody who is a stranger and who is not a friend nor who knows me.

    Off out to breathe some clean (and hopefully not radioactive) air after that BLiar fest

  191. In the meantime my wish is for him to answer in court for his crimes before being sent to Fallujah for an extended sentence of community service. That way, he’ll have to look into the eyes of some of the people whose lives he has blighted.

    Indeed Mary, but even extended for 10K years of CS, Bliar will never have atoned for what he did.

    As for our own Little Johnny Howard, “Ratty” to his mates, more or less the same but I really regret that history cheated us, Howard was not with Bush when that Iraqi threw his shoes at a press conference, Bush ducking and Howard (“Deputy Sheriff”) might have copped it right in the middle of his bushy eyebrows. More than half of Australia and all of New Zealand would have ROFL. (As it was I think most of the ME had a victory in the humiliation of GWB that day, a humiliation not fully appreciated in the West within the Islamic/cultural context of feet/shoe throwing.)

  192. Meantime Maliki appears to have disgraced himself yet again, driving whatever remaining Sunnis in the Iraqi army or security services into the arms of extremists:

    Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has announced that the troops will face the death penalty if they fail to fight the advancing Sunni militants in the country.

  193. Sofia
    “My bet is when he finally goes to meet Old Nick the street partys will dwarf Thatcher’s.”

    1/ They have been on first name terms for a very long time
    2/ Thatcher was coining in the millions for Mark because she believed in the stuff. Blair has to have all this money in order to mix with the gangster/ruler class whose games he played, in order to watch his back.

    We eat the daily political garbage given to us by the lying neo-cons like hungry pigs. So we really have to sympathise with Blair for having been taken in by the stuff. Free food is usually contaminated and eventually makes your balls drop off. Or whatever is the female equivalent, maybe puts balls on?

    Either way, I don’t agree with you that Blair is a true blue neo-con like MaggOTy. I am coming to the conclusion that USUKIS have set up ISIS together with their best religious mates in Iran. Daish like dosh, so plenty of dosh in the bank in Mosul for them. Plenty of tools of the trade, Humvees. Shi’a Honey trap.
    ISIS are off CIA Qaida message. So they are probably going to be reminded by USUKISIRAN who’s boss.

    By talking like this I can actually see directly behind my back with one eye and straight in front with the other. Great. I’m not going to give up my swivel-eye spectacles for anyone.

    The sentence of mine that Craig was forced by his masters to delete above went thus: ‘Everyone is entitled to their moment of idealism, but the world is actually controlled by Zionist banksters, so that moment of hope for peace and reconciliation is always eluding us.’

    As to Obama being tired, repeat of the 9/11 face on Bush?

  194. RD Why don’t you get one of those spiritualists in and get them to put you in contact with the late departed and much missed Clarissa to confirm what she said. Alternately you could read her biography which contains the same information.

    This is an extract of it ‘Confessions of One Fat Lady’ which contains the same information.

    And as I said to Anon the other day, do one, why don’t you.


    Have just come inside as it’s raining and who should be on with Andrew Neil’s Sunday Politics but Mark Urban giving it large on Iraq and all the dangers facing the Western world. It is always the same cast of warmongers but on different programmes of the propahanda machine.

    Then followed another excerpt of the BLiar interview for extra emphasis, followed by Mark Lyall Brown, ex Brown FCO minister, James Rubin, Amanpour’s husband and neocon ex Bush Ambassador to Iraq, Afghanistan and the UN, and a Ms Rahman from the Kurdistan Regional Government. The latter has extensive assistance from Israel.

  195. Mary

    Thanks for your mention of Chernobyl re Ukraine.
    Grass in Wales remained contaminated for years. Iraqis under Saddam remained oblivious to the concept of radiation from our weaponry until recently.

    Re: Fukushima, the pollution if affecting the US West Coast marine life and must be affecting the whole of Japan as well.

    I believe there is a cultural difference between Japan, where a disgraced leader will commit suicide and China where there will be a massive cover-up. Japanese engineers must have asked the question what would happen if a wave flooded the cooling pumps and whoever in power ignored the question is now too ashamed to take action over the radiation.

    The Chinese are not so disabled by a culture of shame. They would have taken action, and covered-the scandal up, in my opinion.

    The UK culture is more akin to the Japanese, bottling it up, than the Chinese, covering it up. This Tory governments only strategy for UK energy is to build nuclear power stations. It’s not a good idea, even if it’s the Chinese who’re going to build them.

    The insanity of fracking in the UK and the risk of polluting our water, demonstrates that ‘Nuclear’ and ‘Tory’ don’t mix, because the Tories always shunt the risks aside with their dreams of profits. UK Energy strategy is going to have to change after the Tories are kicked out at the election-FAST.

  196. Peter Kemp

    How can a Zombie talk about a death penalty. He should tell them they will be re-incarnated like him as walking dead.

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