Deadly Fiasco

by craig on June 13, 2014 11:18 am in Uncategorized

The present problems of Iraq are 100% down to our murderous invasion and occupation. The idea that further western bombing will make things better is so deluded as to beggar belief.

I was surprised to find during my Burnes research that the imperialist powers of Britain and Russia were explicitly exploiting Sunni and Shia divisions to further their conquests of Islamic lands as early as the 1830’s. This has been the major tool of the neo-con Middle Eastern gameplan for some time, spreading disunity and crippling war throughout the Middle East, with the hope that this will benefit the interests of Israel.

The peculiar result has been that in general the West is very actively supporting Sunni armies and miscellaneous forces, but in Iraq is supporting the Shia. ISIS – which is heavily backed by the Saudis, who hate al-Maliki – brings this paradox into sharp relief. The current US and UK strategy is to persuade Saudi Arabia to get ISIS to reconcentrate their efforts against Assad, on the understanding they will be allowed to keep the Sunni areas of Iraq (the old neo-con plan of dividing Iraq is firmly back on the agenda).

The BBC News this morning said that ISIS would not be capable of using the billions of dollars of sophisticated western armaments they have captured. I think you will find the Saudis remedy that one quite quickly. It is quite possible we will see some token airstrikes to kill civilians in Mosul, in order to appease Obama’s domestic backers who are never happy if Americans aren’t killing enough people, but only after agreement has been reached with the Saudis that no serious harm will be done – except to the ordinary people neither Obama, the Saudis or al-Maliki care in the least about.

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  1. This is all very difficult to follow – I have been getting ISIS confused with IISS

  2. In French it’s EIII. To be honest I m not sure if ISIS is right – these names are western constructs anyway, they don’t call themselves that. Like the whole media “Al Qaida in North Chingford” meme.

  3. True. Some notable families in the Hejaz migrated there to escape Russian Imperialism in the Caucuses.

  4. Craig

    You are displaying a very cautious level of cynicism here. The gyroscope of the heart, belief in God itself as sole controller of the universe, cannot be transferred to the sleeve or the T shirt.

    Are you suggesting that USUKIS are in heart-felt solidarity with Sunni Islam and willing to create an Islamic state in Iraq as promised to the Saudi/Qatar backed Al Qaida? Is Al Qaida really a regiment of USUKIS military, fighting for the USUKIS goals of religious freedom and free trade across global borders?

    I have tried pinching myself out of that utopian dream. Surely it is in fact like your hero Burnes in Afghanistan? The imagination of war-weary US generals and internet UK politicians and the custodians of the Holy sites of Mecca and Madina can all indulge for a second in their own hearts’ dreams.

  5. Richard Alan Jones

    13 Jun, 2014 - 12:02 pm

    So let me get this right. We support the Iraq government in the fight against ISIS. We don’t like ISIS, but ISIS is supported by Saudi Arabia who we do like. We don’t like Assad in Syria. We support the fight against him, but ISIS is also fighting against him. We don’t like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government in its fight against ISIS. So some of our friends support our enemies, some enemies are now our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, who we want to lose, but we don’t want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win. If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they could be replaced by people we like even less, and all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists who were not actually there until we went in to drive them out. I think I’ve got it.

  6. Guano

    Your last sentence exceeded the permitted level of craziness and has been deleted

  7. Richard Alan Jones

    Yes, perfect!

  8. lucythediclonius

    13 Jun, 2014 - 12:15 pm

    Nice one Craig I take it that Assad supporting ISIS is completely absurd .

  9. I heard someone say on Fox News that Assad was supporting ISIS and thought I was hallucinating

  10. Thanks, Craig, for another succinct take on dreadful events. Preparing myself for the inevitable rewriting of history according to the Blairites/Neocons which will follow soon in press and Dweeb-Beeb.

  11. lucythediclonius

    13 Jun, 2014 - 12:28 pm

    I saw it from that collection of shills Michael Weiss got together and likewise .

  12. Glad to see you’ve adjusted your ridiculous one million ‘body count’ to “our murderous invasion”.

    Will you accept that the only way to stop Muslim fanatics killing each other in that part of the world is by murderous secular dictatorship? Because like you I didn’t support the Iraq War, but not for wooly minded liberal reasons.

  13. Nobody spreads the kind of freedom delivered to the Iraqi and Libyan peoples like NATO. Freedom, is a bit like wicked, and taking on a meaning close to the antonym of its original meaning.

  14. Anon,

    So a million is ‘ridiculous’ but 650,000+ is OK?

    Is that what youre saying?

    For a disgusting and fake war 1 death is too many.

  15. What about your last sentence, Craig?

  16. @Anon: It was a million about ten years ago, so its going to be far, far higher by now.

    Muslims were living with Muslims reasonably well in Iraq and Iran before the US, with first Margaret Thatcher’s then Tony Blair’s assistance decided to intervene. They intervened to stop a power block developing in the Middle East that would threaten “Western interests”.

    It takes a sick kind of pussy to do it but, all that is needed to create a civil war is to send in a few well hidden agent provocateurs to do appalling things to people… chaos will inevitably ensue. It happened in N. Ireland, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, many other places, and its now happening in Ukraine. People aren’t naturally warlike. Muslims are people, just like the rest of us, and subject to the same response when provoked. The only real question is… why do the sick pussies do this?

  17. 650,000

    I hadn’t heard that one before.

    Maybe 649,000, maybe 651,000. Just pluck a figure from thin air.

    Iraq Body Count has it as 188,000, perhaps a few more now that Muslims are openly executing Muslims in the street.

    When does it end? I reckon IBC will get to 500,000 in five years, which is still 150,000 less than Jives Body Count, the difference being about the same number as some estimate the total, but which is still 500,000 short of Craig Body Count.

    I suppose it all depends on whether you include old people dying and Muslim fundamentalists killing Muslims I suppose. Or if you will do anything to make the West look far worse than it actually is.

  18. The western media have been painting the ongoing daily bloodshed in Iraq as in the neighboring Sunni majority Syria, as “civil war. But in reality, what is currently going on in the Middle East is part of Israel’s Yinon Plan or the so-called “Arab Spring”. It is an Israeli strategic plan to ensure Israeli regional superiority. It insists and stipulates that Israel must reconfigure its geo-political environment through the balkanization of the surrounding Arab states into smaller and weaker states. Israeli strategists viewed Iraq as their biggest strategic challenge from an Arab state. This is why Iraq was outlined as the centerpiece to the balkanization of the Middle East and the Arab World. In Iraq, on the basis of the concepts of the Yinon Plan, Israeli strategists have called for the division of Iraq into a Kurdish state and two Arab states, one for Shia Muslims and the other for Sunni Muslims. The first step towards establishing this was a war between Iraq and Iran, which the Yinon Plan discusses.

    Failing to destroy the Islamic Republic, the US-Israel went after a weakened Iraq and created an autonomous oil-rich pro-Israeli Sunni Iraqi Kurdistan. Currently, western poodle in Saudi Arabia and Qatar are funding the Sunni terrorists who has established Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) in Iraq after defeated by army and Hizbullah in Syria.

  19. Oh my God! It’s now “it was a million about ten years ago”. Just make it up as you go along…

  20. @Anon: 650000 was the number of deaths deduced by a group of medics, and their results were published in The Lancet, probably in 2005. Don’t you believe in science either?

  21. The Lancet study was published in October 2006. The exact figure quoted by the researchers was 654,965. Of course the US and UK governments did all they could to debunk the figures.

  22. Peacewisher has gone from 1 million a few minutes ago to 650,000. That’s 350,000 Iraqis he’s playing around with there. And he lectures me on science.

    No, I don’t believe something just because it’s written in “The Lancet”. The methodology and conclusions were widely discredited anyhow. That’s how science is done you see. Claim is made, and tested. Dealing with something as vague as the total number of deaths caused by the invasion of Iraq, you can pretty much make up whatever number you want, depending on what you are prepared to include. Depending on your politics.

  23. I was thinking aloud, Anon. It was peer-reviewed, if you realise the implications of that… Glad you might now be able to agree that 650000 in 2006 was a reliable figure, and 1 million at that time Was a speculative figure. Many more deaths in the eight years of instability between then and now probably would have taken it over the million mark.

  24. Anon,

    650,000 was the body count in 2006 by The Lancet.

    Why are you defending the indefensible?

  25. Back to the current Iraq situation… I don’t think the US planned this! Maybe the UK did? Maybe Russia did? Maybe the Bankers did? I don’t know any more about this than anyone else but I know there was an agreement struck in 2006 between the US army and the Sunni tribe leaders. Maybe that agreement has just run into the buffers? I haven’t followed it at all, just speculating. Maybe someone on here can enlighten us.

  26. Can you tell me what causes of deaths you are including?

    Actually, scrub that. Can you tell me what cause of death you are not including?

    You see, American soldier shoots an Iraqi civilian. That’s an innocent death caused by the Iraq War. Eleven years later, Muslim fanatic blows up bus load of civilians. Not so sure. Old lady dies of illness that could have been cured in Switzerland. Definitely not.

  27. I think we all know perfectly well what we mean. Look at the violent deaths in Iraq before 2003, and after 2003, right up to present day. The increase over the 2002 level would be those caused by the coalition of the killing. Now let’s move on shall we…

  28. “You see, American soldier shoots an Iraqi civilian. That’s an innocent death caused by the Iraq War.”

    What bollocks Anon. The war in Iraq was illegal. The intention was to steal the oil and mineral resources. So if an American soldier shoots an Iraqi civilian it is not innocent at all.

    You’ve been contributing to this blog long enough to know that. You just like to be contentious, but it makes you look stupid, which you might not be.

  29. On the lighter side, anyone remember “Between Iraq and a Hard Place?”:

  30. “I don’t think the US planned this! Maybe the UK did? Maybe Russia did? Maybe the Bankers did?”

    Follow the money. Whoever is arming these guys and paying their wages is controlling their actions.

    My guess is that the objective in Iraq is to provoke Iran into taking matters into its own hands. Shia muslims in Iraq will be targeted for spectacular carnage. Iran sends in troops to try and stop it. Iran gets denounced for its ‘expansionist’ agenda and then the war starts.

  31. “..except to the ordinary people[serious harm] neither Obama, the Saudis or al-Maliki care in the least about.

    Just in case ‘ordinary people’ connect, coordinate, complement and capitalize in significant weight to bring about a formidable intention to resist and confront, the Pentagon is advancing social tools to discourage such trends:

    Pentagon preparing for mass civil breakdown:

  32. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 2:27 pm


    re Irak casualty figures:

    I thought that you’d comprehensively demolished the pluckers-of-figures-out-of-thin-air a couple of threads ago, but by God, here you are havong to deal with the same group of punch-drunk, broken-down old pugs all over again!

    And of course, just like last time, you’re flooring them all over again!

    Well done!

  33. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 2:34 pm

    Ah yes, the Lancet! The Lancet.

    The house journal where we could read that butter was bad for you but now it isn’t. That stanins could be ingested without fear, but now they can’t.

    Do drink two glasses of red a day. Err, actually, perhaps better not.

    I can see how, with such a record on things medical – things within its remit – the Lancet should be uniquely qualified to pronounce on matters well outside its remit and capabilities.


    There is a saying in a (continental) country which must remain anonymous: the only people more stupid than teachers are doctors.

  34. You know the trolls are losing the argument when they go into tag team mode..

    Habba is so far up Anon’s arse they might meld into one if they’re not careful.

    Still,i guess its a kind of sweet romance.

    And who here would deny them their little love-in?

  35. “Look at the violent deaths in Iraq before 2003, and after 2003, right up to present day.”

    So we are agreed that it takes a brutal secular dictatorship to keep a lid on Islamist violence, rather than Islam being some innately peaceful, innocent and harmless religion that takes only America and the West to to turn it into a violent rage? Because to my mind, to get to the kind of ridiculous figures you and Craig have cited here, that must be exactly what you believe.

    Peacewisher, I accept that the US-led invasion killed a lot of innocent people and that BLiar should be tortured on a lampost or whatever it is you want, but what I can’t tolerate is the kind of lefty wankery displayed by you and others here that wilfully exaggerates the numbers killed for political reasons – namely that you fucking detest this country and will say anything to make it look worse than it actually is.

    The vast majority of deaths in Iraq have been caused by fanatical Muslims killing each other and other Muslims. If you are opposed to the Iraq War as I was then you have to accept that tyrants like Saddam, Assad and Gaddafi are probably best left where they are.

    There is no lovely left-liberal outcome of Muslims loving each other and prospering if only America would stay out of their affairs.

  36. Tell that to a doctor the next time youre in need of urgent medical care Habbabkuk.

    But you wont will you because not only are you a fool and hypocrite but youre a coward as well.

    Now go and change your string vest.

    That strange yellowish colour is disgusting,not to mention the smell.

  37. Habbabkuk

    We had all this with the Dresden ‘body count’. I informed Dross he was exaggerating the numbers killed by a factor of ten, backed up by German studies, and what was I told?

    That I didn’t care that ten times less were killed.

    Even Clark had to interject on that one!

  38. Anon: You know nothing abut me and we seem to agree on a number of things so why are you getting so nasty? It is war that I detest not this or that country or politician. But any external politician that deliberately engineers what happens on the ground in a country for the purpose of creating war (or civil war) will not be my best friend. There has to be a better way.

    PS Body counts will always be a matter of dispute… Total for Guernica still varies from about 200 to about 4000.

  39. “..punch-drunk, broken-down old pugs.” remember the ‘pug’ is really an extraterrestrial in disguise (a Remoolian). Take the piss and you will be taken to be deneuralyzed… (not so sure if this will have any effect).

  40. “The vast majority of deaths in Iraq have been caused by fanatical Muslims killing each other and other Muslims”

    Dat’s right. All dem bombs an’ missiles, dey was jus’ candy floss.

    Have you turned your forensic mind to the holocaust at all? Plenty to get your teeth into there!

  41. Anon with the green avatar, not the red one!

    John’s surname is Goss as you well know. Do not attempt your smear of referring to him as ‘Gross’.


    John You might be interested in hearing John Pilger on RT with Sophie Shevardnadze at 6.30

    In case it is a different programme to the one broadcast at lunchtime, here is the transcript of that.

  42. I think ISIS final gamble will be to turn towards Iran, Saudi’s big bugbear, Turning Maliki upside down with all oil; rights up in the air, will not be enopugh for these warmongers.

    But I’m sure all the rich Oligarchs,millionares, settling warmongers/criminals, banks and usual multinational tax evaders will be very pleased if we help them in their immense task undermining the country with a comprehensive tax boycott.

    Would that stop these mind blowing ravages? demonstrations in London do very little.

  43. So here are five straightforward lessons — none acceptable in what passes for discussion and debate in this country — that could be drawn from that last half century of every kind of American warfare:

    1. No matter how you define American-style war or its goals, it doesn’t work. Ever.

    2. No matter how you pose the problems of our world, it doesn’t solve them. Never.

    3. No matter how often you cite the use of military force to “stabilize” or “protect” or “liberate” countries or regions, it is a destabilizing force.

    4. No matter how regularly you praise the American way of war and its “warriors,” the US military is incapable of winning its wars.

    5. No matter how often American presidents claim that the US military is “the finest fighting force in history,” the evidence is in: it isn’t.

    Don’t Walk Away From War
    June 12, 2014
    by Tom Engelhardt

  44. @Richard Alan Jones – LOL! Sorry we don’t have a recommend button.

    @ assorted trolls. There have been a number of well-researched estimates of the number of excess deaths in the Iraq War, the Lancet’s being one of them, utilising recognised methodologies, with excess deaths* from 500,000 – 1 million and other damage including wounded, displaced, homeless and psychologically maimed in the several millions – do you not recognise that this is a terrible crime and that is why so many people are horrified at the prospect of our lovely armed forces “helping out” again?

    * excess deaths = deaths that wouldn’t have happened if Iraq hadn’t been invaded.


    13 Jun, 2014 - 3:37 pm

    The anal-gazing over how many deaths is a purposeful diversion. Blame whomever you wish, but the death toll is the Butcher’s Bill that should be recompensed by those most responsible for this and other attempted debacles….



    13 Jun, 2014 - 3:40 pm

    Check out the graph on terrorist attacks in Iraq. BTW; Zawahiri and the Takfiris who eat human hearts find ISIS too extreme.

  47. Proto-warfare often precedes, or leads up to, hot wars, as when a decade of economic sanctions, media demonization, and media-supported lies about ‘weapons of mass destruction’ led up to the Iraq war. Thousands of young American men and women were sent over to kill and be killed, or to be injured or traumatized, to say nothing of the up to a million Iraqis who died as a result of the war. However, Iraq did not possess nuclear or other weapons of mass destruction, so there was no danger of a nuclear conflagration. Matters are much different with respect to Russia and China, both nuclear powers.

    The Wolfowitz doctrine:

    “Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”


    13 Jun, 2014 - 4:13 pm

    The one-percent doctrine of Cheney. “Hey, I think we can increase those odds”

    “The title of Ron Suskind’s riveting new book, “The One Percent Doctrine,” refers to an operating principle that he says Vice President Dick Cheney articulated shortly after 9/11: in Mr. Suskind’s words, “if there was even a 1 percent chance of terrorists getting a weapon of mass destruction — and there has been a small probability of such an occurrence for some time — the United States must now act as if it were a certainty.” He quotes Mr. Cheney saying that it’s not about “our analysis,” it’s about “our response,” and argues that this conviction effectively sidelines the traditional policymaking process of analysis and debate, making suspicion, not evidence, the new threshold for action.”

  49. Don’t see Western bombing happening. It runs counter to the tendencies in the ultimate authority. The UNSC’s current president, Russia’s Churkin, said no one has suggested measures against ISIS. Churkin and Gerard Araud are going to keep the focus on the failed state that US government aggression created in Iraq. UNAMI is talking sense against the US terror hysteria, insisting Baghdad is not at risk.

    What’s more worrisome is the likelihood that with all these emergencies, the Russian presidency might be too busy to promote UNSC reform, which everyone knows is vital to prevent more US crimes against peace. The US strategy is to pit aspiring permanent members against one another, but the real fight is to curtail the veto and end permanent membership altogether. Reform is a long game, and impeding it is one of the prime goals of US confrontation and destabilization. Keep the UNSC reactive and off-balance, that’s the US plan.

  50. On June 13, 2014, UK’s Jewish Chronicle reported that country’s Holocaust Education Trust, an Israeli advocacy group, has cancelled its annual dinner at the Dorchester Hotel as part of world-wide Jewish boycott call to punish Sultan of Brunei.

    “The Holocaust Educational Trust (HET) is a Jewish ultra-Zionist outfit, charged in the UK with Shoa indoctrination and it is interested only in the Shoa of one people and one people only. Visiting Auschwitz with the HET is probably as informative as sightseeing tour in Gaza concentration camp in the company of (Israeli justice minister and former Mossad’s sex-pot) Tzipi Livni,” said Gilad Atzmon, an Israeli-born British citizen.


    13 Jun, 2014 - 4:56 pm

    The ME is a circular firing squad caught in an ambush. It’s a little like the US Civil War; brother against brother, only with greater firepower.

    “Sow the wind. Reap the whirlwind” Hosea 8:7

  52. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:05 pm

    “Habba is so far up Anon’s arse they might meld into one if they’re not careful.”

    Nothing compared to the group sex you regularly indulge in with the likes of Mary, Herbie, Mr Goss, Tony M, Mike and others, Jives!

    And now off to bed with you, you’re only allowed out after midnight. :)

  53. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:10 pm

    “John You might be interested in hearing John Pilger on RT with Sophie Shevardnadze at 6.30”

    Surely you meant Sophie Kibo Noh, Mary?

    Sounds like a perfect fit! LOL

  54. Why Nuclear War? An insight from the command and control Navy machine at Northwood headquarters, Hertfordshire.

    The acute reason for war results from the imminent collapse of the trans-Atlantic financial system. Neither the British monarchy and its power base, the City of London, nor the Bush-Obama continuum and its power base, Wall Street, can tolerate the idea that their system would break down, while Asian and Eurasian countries, China, India, Russia–develop themselves economically(BRICS).

    Preparation IS in place for nuclear war as witnessed by NATO’s nuclear escalation

    By 2020 the F-16 fighter aircraft and Tornados of five NATO countries are to be replaced by F-35 Joint Strike Fighters capable of delivering B61-12 class nuclear bombs (0.3 to 1,200 KTons) modified to improve accuracy and the ability to glide to its targets reducing radioactive fallout. This would apply to countries that were previously considered to be non-nuclear, namely Belgium, the Netherlands, Turkey, Germany, and Italy and in my opinion is a violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and of the Obama Administration’s own promises.

    The failure of American strategy in Syria and Ukraine may lead to a more radical policy, a direct military attack on Russia and China.

    The signs have been ‘on the source’ since 2001 when tactical nuclear weapons were used to bring down the World Trade Center towers and during the 2003 Iraq war to smash Falluga.

    The modernization of tactical nuclear weapons starting with Israel modifying the W54 artillary shell in the 70’s is now a clear sign of the preparation of a USUKIS war against China and Russia. Tests of tactical nukes conducted with South Africa were known and I saw a ‘NOT FOR SOUTH AFRICA EYES’ signal that recognised the joint ISSA testing arrangement

    Increasing the potential of tactical nuclear weapons in Europe is all about the attainment of superiority in these weapons over China and possibly Russia.

    An aggressive NATO war will become possible, and China/Russia/Iran’s ability to retaliate against European territory will be limited and, out of fear of a U.S. strategic counterstrike, would refrain from using nuclear weapons.

    Smart-weapon systems, permeates all aspects of NATO and U.S. doctrines, all of which aim to eliminate air defenses, to destroy command-and-control functions, and thus to eliminate the second-strike capacity. This is the basis of the U.S. missile defense system in Eastern Europe; it is the basis for the “Prompt Global Strike” doctrine, as well as the Air-Sea Battle doctrine against China.

    In the (Strategic Studies Quarterly), the official journal of the U.S. Air Force, the authors Keir Lieber and Daryl Press had already announced the end of the Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) doctrine of NATO in the Spring of 2013, and put forward the theory that nuclear wars are winnable. Various critics of this delusion have pointed out that all these doctrines lead to a race to a first strike on both sides, and massively increase the danger of war.

    Britain and the US decided a decade ago to continue rule as a world empire (the ‘special relationship’) and is the context for the continuous eastward expansion of NATO and the EU, as well as the systematic strategy of encirclement of Russia and China.

  55. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:13 pm


    “@ assorted trolls. There have been a number of…etc, etc..”


    Assorted trolls? Don’t be a bitch, Julian, there are too many bitches here already.


    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:18 pm

    Yes, Mark. Don’t forget low-yield tactical nukes.

    On that note…

    ” Shi’te Muslim Iran is so alarmed by Sunni insurgent gains in Iraq that it may be willing to cooperate with Washington in helping Baghdad fight back, a senior Iranian official told Reuters.

    The idea is being discussed internally among the Islamic Republic’s leadership, the senior Iranian official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity. The official had no word on whether the idea had been raised with any other party.”

  57. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:20 pm

    “The Wolfowitz doctrine:

    “Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union.”

    From the American point of view that sounds eminently rational and sensible to me, Mr Golding.

    When you think about it, why should the Americans welcome the emergence of another rival similar to the late, unlamented Evil Empire?

    I don’t even welcome that prospect, so why should the Americans?

    What’s your problem with that?


    There will now probably follow a stream of abuse from the usual Useful Idiots., but no reasoned argument.


    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:28 pm

    Zarqawi enjoyed his fame. The new guy is more secretive.


    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:31 pm

    Wolfowwitz/Cheney doctrine= self-fulfilling prophecy.

  60. Always worth a read, William Blum’s last but one Anti-Empire Report:

    ” […] in a survey conducted by an independent Russian polling center this past January, and reported in the Washington Post in April, 86 percent of respondents older than 55 expressed regret for the Soviet Union’s collapse; 37 percent of those aged 25 to 39 did so. 7 (Similar poll results have been reported regularly since the demise of the Soviet Union. This is from USA Today in 1999: “When the Berlin Wall crumbled, East Germans imagined a life of freedom where consumer goods were abundant and hardships would fade. Ten years later, a remarkable 51% say they were happier with communism.”)

    Or as the new Russian proverb put it: “Everything the Communists said about Communism was a lie, but everything they said about capitalism turned out to be the truth.”

  61. I’ll be a useless idiot, Habby. A world power with that sort of merciless attitude “everything else is subservient to US being THE BOSS and doing as they please…” would have no right to be a world power. Fortunately, Wolfowitz doesn’t run official US foreign policy. The cold war provided balance for the world because the mad expansionist things in the US and USSR couldn’t get their own way, and they had to negotiate. Would you say the world is a safer place since the demise of the Soviet Union?


    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:43 pm

    “If we don’t fight the terrorists over there, we’ll have to fight them here”


    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:47 pm

    Tony @ 5:37

    A bevy of convenient partners for ‘Yats’ and friends.

  64. Mary 13 Jun, 2014 – 3:11 pm

    Thanks for the Pilger plug. I think it will be the same interview I watched this morning. It followed the RT news, which is the only news reporting Ukraine. This strafing of civilians (20 children killed) in Ukraine reminds me of the prelude to the Iraq War when NATO forces were in their words “maintaining no fly zones” but in reality killing and maiming civilians and imposing crippling sanctions. That was before Blair and Bush engaged in the “Mother of all Battles” – What a sick description from the minds of very sick people.

  65. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 5:53 pm


    “Would you say the world is a safer place since the demise of the Soviet Union?”

    Irrelevant. Why this obsession with safety anyway – define it; safety from what or from whom?

    But the world is a lot freer (try asking assorted East Europeans, and even a few non-European Communist tyrants got the wind up – cf Castro).

  66. Habbabkuk-Turvey,

    Hilarious irony you,yersel,bemoaning a lack of reasoned argument!

    So you dont lament the passing of the Evil Empire and are happy to cheerlead Team USA.

    Team USA; an out of control monster which spies illegally on everything its citizens-and the wider world-do.Where gun ownership is ubiquitous and nary a week goes by without a major shooting incident-usually in schools.

    Team USA,who since 1945 at least have intervened,usually disastrously,in so many parts of the world-and usually lost but always a trail of massive destruction.

    Team USA, where barely adult former mallrat crewcut steroid droids in underground bunkers in places like Fort Meade press a button to commit deadly extra-judicial drone strikes,commonly on innocent wedding parties,whilst vacuously high 5-ing whilst screaming inane insane mantras such as ‘ my oountry right or wrong dude!’ whilst listening to death metal on 11 and stuffing themselves to belicose ignorant obesity.

    Way to go Habba,way to go…high-5 dude,yeah?

    You are a clumsily nervous flatulent sommelier Habba,dispensing and spilling sour vinegar-like wine from an expensive bottle.Your unclipped yellow-green toenails protrude from under frayed sandals and your stained old string vest is still visible at the top of an ill-fitting and preposterous maroon shirt.

  67. Have you asked assorted Eastern Europeans, Habby. I remember visiting that fine autonomous republic of Yugoslavia in the 1980s. Yes, there were military planes at the airport but otherwise perfectly relaxed. Found it utterly incomprehensible that this magnificent example of a people’s republic could be destroyed in the interests of “freedom”. Or many it was a coincidence that hostilities started about six months after the fall of the USSR?!

  68. many = maybe

  69. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 6:24 pm


    Don’t be so silly, Peacewisher – you know perfectly well which Eastern European countries I was referring to.

    I think I prefer real fools like Jives and Herbie to fake fools like you…. :)

  70. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 6:34 pm


    And, by the way, I also knew Tito- and immediately post-Tito- Yugoslavia and cannot say that I was very impressed.

    Indeed, the Turks from Germany travelling home for the summer holidays in their thousands seemed positively civilised by comparison.

    What did you find so “fine” about the place, Peacewisher?

  71. Rehmat

    Your comments about Israel have “exceeded the permitted level of craziness”.

  72. Peacewisher, me too. I visited Yugoslavia (as it was) united under Tito. I was there in the seventies and a fine country it appeared to be long before the liberation. but I’ve also spoken to people in Romania who were much happier under the Ceausescu regime. Some of course, the mafia in particular, have benefited from the liberation. It has now got all the problems of other liberated countries, unemployment problems, a huge national debt and increasing prices in the shops. There was no national debt under Ceausescuu though it had come at a hard cost. When I reached the border of Georgia and Azerbaijan they were telling me how very often they have no electricity but that was not the case when they were part of the Soviet family. How many more examples does my friend H want? Yes, the Russian Federation, from what I have seen in footage looks much more modern. But for some reason it is still the bogeyman! :)

  73. Obama says that Iraq has to sort its own problems “we can’t do it for them”. Does that mean the Yanks have learnt their lesson. No. I don’t think so either. The US only creates failed states. It does not sort them out. Obama is considering other options to help support the security services. What a cock up NATO countries have made of the world.

  74. Ed Murray is up to speed on the Ch4 ‘News’ propaganda.

    Snowmail…Ayad Allawi and Meghan O’Sullivan…short email to Cathy Newman
    Posted by Ed on June 13, 2014, 6:44 pm

    Ms Newman,
    In tonight’s “Snowmail”(1) you say you will be talking to Ayad Allawi and Meghan O’Sullivan.
    Will you be asking Allawi about his terrorist past in the “Iraqi National Accord”?
    Will you be asking Meghan O’Sullivan, who was instrumental in the illegal invasion of Iraq, who has worked under all manner of warmongering scoundrels (Paul Bremer, Rumsfeld, Powell to name but a few) and who has been a great advocate of America’s most murderous policies in Iraq, about her own personal responsibility for the ensuing chaos and carnage that has brought Iraq to where it is today?
    Or, as indicated in your “Snowmail”, are you really going to go from the sublime to the ridiculous and ask these two lords of chaos what should happen now? Will you explain the perverted logic here?

    Ed Murray.

    (1)Snowmail – ‘Yet with the Iraqi government losing its grip on northern Iraq, the Kurds have been exploiting the chaos by laying the foundations for an independent state in Kurdistan.
    Tonight, our Foreign Correspondent Jonathan Rugman has been inside the strategic oil city of Kirkuk which is now in the hands of Kurdish Peshmerga forces. The city was deserted by Iraqi government forces, and the Kurds spotted an opportunity among all the chaos to take the city that has always sat just beyond their borders.

    And I’ll be speaking to Ayad Allawi – the first prime minister of Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein – and Meghan O’Sullivan, the former US deputy national security adviser who helped reconstruct Iraq after the 2003 invasion. I’ll be asking them both if there’s any hope of Iraq being put back together, and what the implications are for the rest of the world if not.’

  75. Maliki reminds me of another US middle east stooge who thought that democratic elections gave him a 5 year sectarian dictatorship: Muhammad Mursi. IF, as Craig believes, the coup in Egypt was planned by the CIA, it might pay for the CIA to train their stooges more carefully in future.

    But I believe Mursi was set up to fail and stitched up economically, as was Gordon Brown, by those whose mere mention swivels the eyeballs.

    If Craig had written “Obama’s demented bankers” instead of “Obama’s domestic backers” we would all be singing from the same page.

  76. It’s all about whether you want a banker ruled globe or a multi-polar world.

    Sovereign Democracy or Global Dictatorship. The EU itself and the democratic deficit in the US are a fine taster of what we’re in for, should the likes of these come to power worldwide.

    Habby supports a Dictatorship of bankers ruling the globe.

    That’s what the current wars and suffering are all about and indeed why habby and his ilk are unconcerned about the deaths of 500,000 children in furtherance of that objective.

    The ends justify the means.

    The rest is distraction and waffle.

    This book from 1990 explains all you need to know:

    His latest book brings us up to date:

  77. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 7:27 pm

    Mr Goss

    “Peacewisher, me too. I visited Yugoslavia (as it was) united under Tito..ecc, ecc,…”

    Perhaps we were in two different Yugoslavias? Mine was the one with an Adriatic coast and it bordered on Greece, Austria, Bulgaria….

    Anyway, as you too call it a “fine” country, I extend to you the same invitation as I did to Peacewisher – could you explain what you meant by “fine”?


    And on a point of info – and to smash your rose-tinted specs – you say “There was no national debt under Ceausescuu” but you forget to mention the crippling foreign debt the country built up under that old monster. It was servicing the latter that was behind your “though it had come at a hard cost”.


    No point trying to pull the wool over Habbabkuk’s eyes – he knows too much!

  78. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 7:32 pm

    “It’s all about whether you want a banker ruled globe or a multi-polar world.”

    Yes, yes, Herbie, we know – you do keep repeating that silly-clever phrase rather a lot, don’t you.

    Where did you lift it from?

    And where or what is your personal survival kit?

    I think you should share with your friends on here. No good being selfish!

  79. James Perloff, whose books I referred to above, gives a video presentation of his work:

    People need to understand local events in terms of the big picture.

    Habby and his ilk remain committed to murder, slaughter and misery worldwide to further entrench their parasitic lives.

    Disgusting creatures.

  80. Habbabkuk-Turvey,

    Well of course i may be Of The Night ce soir.

    You could say ive got Friday on my mind.

    And lest i be accused of not acknowledging qualities in others permit to say that indeed you do have a certain je ne sais quoi about you…Something Of The Lamp about you ’tis true i openly admit.

    But you should know that sunlamps are very bad for your skin,not too mention the vanity involved.

  81. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Jun, 2014 - 8:44 pm


    Are you drunk?

  82. technicolour

    13 Jun, 2014 - 8:49 pm

    @ Richard Alan Jones. Superb, thanks. I’m repeating it like a mantra.

  83. Habbabkuk-Turvey,

    No im not drunk.I havent had a drink yet but i shall step out in about an hour for a few snifters.

    And well…its that old saw Habba…come the morn i shall be sober whilst you will remain a troll in need of a clean string vest.

  84. You’re really on fire tonight, Mr H.

    If only…

    Obama will be “reluctantly” drawn into bombing Iraq – to “protect” a dictator this time. Of course, there may be some cross-border mission creep, on one side of Iraq or the other. It’s hard to predict where these actions will lead…

    Oh they’re devious alright. Fiendishly inventive, as they desperately try to protect what is left of the American way of life. One more shot for the petrodollar junkie in whatever vein he can find. War on a drip-feed is the only thing that can keep the US going.

  85. Yet another corporate hack who refers this most bloody war as an ‘adventure’. Oh and by the way, ‘things fall apart’!

    Friday 13 Jun 2014
    Jon Snow

    Things fall apart in Iraq – are we to blame?

  86. Another highly disturbing slice of evidence for anon, from the normally pro-US Aljazeera:

    Clue: Iraqi children, cancer, US munitions:

  87. Always remember. These guys play both sides.

    They’re Hedgies.

  88. Jon Snow (that one, yes, but that is just a rumour) allegedly opined:
    “History tells us repeatedly that extreme, violent, neo-fascist religiously fuelled fanaticism has only ever been contained by secular tyrants.”

    Any reasonable person would have assumed that description was being applied by Snow to the Anglo-US-Israeli axis, as their common Zionist ideology epitomises religiously fuelled fanaticism and violent, extreme and neo-fascist are also their proud signature traits, to which the world and their dog can attest earnestly. The cap surely fits most perfectly. I’m not entirely certain that history does tell us any such thing about secular tyrant’s unique, apparently meritable powers too, Jon failed (entirely understandably) to give any examples of this phenomenon. I don’t fancy the ruler in any part of the ex-UK being exchanged for a secular tyrant, however much Jon Snow commends it to his viewer. My objections aren’t principled, just practical, I wouldn’t mind at all, for a time if the US and Israel – but not us – were so ruled, they after all, deserve “exceptional” treatment.

    Many people might wonder why these “Islamist” cadres, the heavily-armed by the West head-choppers and raw heart gourmets, don’t turn their destructive attentions to the Anglo-US-Zionist beachhead vanity state, with its poor lambs trembling in the middle of all the stampeding cattle, the Ashkenazim holiday village on the Med, that multicultural melting-pot exemplar of perfected democracy, assimilation and co-existence, that needs walls to keep out people eager to join in the celebration of human diversity within -but puzzlingly illogically fall upon their own co-religionists striving, women and men, to secure the peaceful secular moderate socialist Arab lands they long desire and which most once almost had. Didn’t that Bin Laden himself read a script telling us that the presence of US troops in ‘sacred’ Saudi Arabia (but not of US puppets ruling there), and the Palestinian people’s desperate plight, were at the root of his and his band of righteous followers’ excitable drives? The obvious answer is of course that these zealot bands’ orders come down to them from the Kosher Nostra super brains ensconced upon the Tel Aviv sun-loungers, however much they try to conceal their murderous actions and motives in pseudo-religious balderdash, celestial gibberish, the effects of sunstroke and a nasty knock on the head. Another factor is that traditional majority Islam as far as I can gather has no hostility to the Jewish faith or Judiasm, or to other religions in general – a candid, pleasing ‘our’s is bonkers, theirs’ are no doubt all bonkers, too, why worry? attitude’ – they might disdain atheists and apostates, as do much of our own religiously inclined who’re still fulminating over the Enlightenment and The Life of Brian.

  89. What a Completely and Utterly Brilliant, Beautiful Day…

    I drove my wife there…and we went for a long walk along The River…

    After….we arrived..and I asked her…to order the drinks..and the food…

    She asks What Do You Want???

    I just want You….so I am not going to lie…

    I said to her later in the day…Well .. You… My Lovely Wife – Bought Me The T-Shirt…What Else Do You Expect Me To Do…But Wear It???

    They Liked it….

    They Had Never Seen anything like it Before…

    Even The Band Went Wow – They Loved My T-Shirt

    My Wife is a Heart of Gold…

    So I wore it all the way home too…

    We have done this kind of thing before…

    O>K> I Did Look a Bit Like a Walking Jukebox..

    They simply couldn’t understand how it worked – and they came laughing and clapping and shouting into my T-Shirt

    They all asked – where The F did you get that from….

    I replied..well we have just got back from a Rock Festival in Spain…

    My wife bought it for me as a Christmas Present around the Year 2007…

    So The Girls asked me…But How Do You Wash It??


  90. I shouldn’t of course write this…particularly on Craig Murray’s website….

    But the cnut he was slagging off…Something About Politics or Something High Up >> Maybe about The Prosecution of ANTHONY CHARLES LYNTON BLAIR et al…

    He don’t half look like You…

    Maybe its these spindly wire specs – and the hair…I think it is his own…

    But…seriously…I can still get away with it..You see – Whilst I Dye It…I Don’t Cut It..and there is No Way I would Trust My Wife with a Pair Of Scissors….

    I Can Still Pull…She never had any problem at all..You see The Competition…I have Just Got To Keep Up With Her For Another 33 Years…

    She Keeps Me Fit.

    She is My Wife.and I am Still In Love With Her…

    The Priest Didn’t Understand.


  91. BrianFujisan

    14 Jun, 2014 - 3:48 am

    Richard Alan Jones

    yep nice one

    Some stuff worth Noting / Remembering – here, from over at Mondoweiss –

    “I sometimes forget what happened to our country. But Belén Fernández has a new book out on Tom Friedman called The Imperial Messenger, and she reminds us of Friedman’s achievement, in an interview in the NY Times Examiner:

    Friedman sells the Iraq war as “the most radical-liberal revolutionary war the U.S. has ever launched” despite making subsequent assessments such as “The neocon strategy may have been necessary to trigger reform in Iraq and the wider Arab world, but it will not be sufficient unless it is followed up by what I call a ‘geo-green’ strategy.” As I point out in my book, it is difficult to determine how many true “geo-greens” would advocate for the tactical contamination of the earth’s soil with depleted uranium munitions; why not introduce a doctrine of neoconservationism?

    Fernández links to Tom Friedman cheerleading the Iraq war in 2003. Wow, I forgot about his stuff! Or thankfully never read it in the first place. The question arises, Did Tom Friedman make any difference with this kind of talk? And I say of course he did, he helped convince the liberal Establishment to go along with this foolish war. Friedman and Ken Pollack and Bill Keller and David Remnick– the pen is mightier than the sword.”

    Also ‘Hostage’ has an excellent Post up including this Link –

  92. Craig wrote – “The present problems of Iraq are 100% down to our murderous invasion and occupation.”

    Are you sure, Craig? That would imply that Muslims are incapable of resolving their differences or, at least, tolerating them in the absence of an enduring solution. Why not 50%, 66.66% or 99.99% instead of 100%?

    The good people of the Quran had 1400 odd years to get their act together, conquered lands in and on the fringe of Europe and been blessed(?) with a powerful energy resource from which even a small fraction of a share represents a massive inflow of wealth.

    What is it about the religion of peace that it cannot even find harmony within itself with all that wealth of experience and resources? I fail to see how the West can be blamed for the schism of Sunni vs Shia.

    So how is it that the wise people of Islam are so unsophisticated that they can be exploited over their differences by Western savages?

    The trouble with some ideas –

  93. Often enough to be reliable, how things look results deterministically from how things are, hidden in plain sight, reality sometimes hoves into view. Whether that is how it is, it’s undeniably how it looks. Anyone who won’t say so is hoping only to keep themselves fooled that bit longer. Who would it serve if such interpretations were intended but unfounded? that the Empire can proceed under cover of critics being labelled Anti-Septic?

    It’s that threadbare Strongman trope, it irks me, it resembles “too poor, too wee, too stupid”, too Other and too inherently fractious, the muddle-headed oiks -it works as well and is suitably condescending for damping upstart pretensions in the slave reservations at home and abroad, having first got them fighting amongst themselves over trifles, divide et impera, the gift that just keeps giving. A bumper bonus for some entitled few to flaunt, and a fortified yoke for the ever obliging herd to labour under.

    Exciting equal opportunity position for suitably mustachioed Secular Tyrant, no experience or training necessary. Uniform supplied. Apply to Channel 4 with your particulars.

  94. Gilad Atzmon explains clearly for the uninitiated what Oded Yinon means. It is often referred to and is pertinent to the current upheavals. Gilad is well informed. He is called a ‘self hating Jew’ of course.

  95. The war criminal seems to be rather silent at the moment. Nothing to say Tony or are you still prostituting yourself to some group of rich 1%ers? You were recently advocating a touch more war war, on Syria this time. Remember?

  96. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Jun, 2014 - 7:52 am


    I love that sinister sounding “..and beyond”

    Yup, there really is a devilishly cunning Jewish plan for world domination!

  97. Our puny pocket politicians speak, mostly stating the bleedin’ obvious. How about Baker referring only to 179 British lives lost? Could not make it up.

    ‘Iraq chaos is Tony Blair’s legacy’: Intervention by ex-PM in 2003 destabilised the country and left it open to extremism, says Home Office minister
    Government ‘rules out’ new Iraqi campaign despite major Jihadist threat
    Al Qaeda militants have seized large areas of northern Iraq
    Norman Baker said Iraq was stable under Saddam ‘in a vile sort of way’

  98. Off out and off topic! but a lovely read for the weekend here from Alan Bennett. His take on our current condition. His look back at Cambridge in the 50s and the public school louts is good. Has anything really changed?

    Fair Play
    Alan Bennett
    Sermon before the University, King’s College Chapel, Cambridge, 1 June.

  99. @Jemand: It wasn’t just the invasion, it was the commercialisation that came afterwards… remember the “pack of cards” of Saddam’s henchmen – and the rival pack of cards featuring neocon archcapitalists

    “Between Iraq and a Hard Place” : Part 2

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