The overruling of a European Court judgement to assert individual privacy, and the anti-democratic rushing of emergency legislation through parliament where no emergency exists, are the antithesis of liberalism. So of course is the jettisoning of all the Lib Dem manifesto pledges on civil liberties.
It is not news that Nick Clegg has become the poster boy for a politics utterly devoid of principle, organised purely around the desire of individual politicians for wealth and power. But even with all that background, I found Clegg’s enthusiastic ratcheting up of the fear factor over the “need” to protect us from virtually non-existent threats, utterly reprehensible.
At his press conference with Cameron, Clegg actually quoted the non-existent “liquid bomb plot to bring down multiple planes” as the reason these powers were needed. He even made a direct claim that telephone intercepts had been instrumental in “foiling” the “liquid bomb plot”. That is utterly untrue. The three men eventually convicted had indeed been under judge approved surveillance for a year. In that year, they made no reference to a plan to bring down airplanes, because there was no such plan. The only “evidence” of a plan to bring down multiple airplanes came from a Pakistani torture chamber. There never was a single liquid bomb. 90% of those arrested in the investigation were released without charge or found not guilty.
The three found guilty had done little more than boast and fantasise about being jihadis. That is not to say they were nice people. They may even have done some harm, though if Clegg were in any sense a Liberal he would not be supportive of imprisoning people in case they one day do some harm. But they had never made a liquid bomb or made a plan to bring down multiple airlines.
The point is, that while any ordinary member of the public could be forgiven for believing in the Liquid Bomb Plot, given all the lies of the mainstream media, Clegg has to be aware that he is spreading deliberate lies and propaganda to justify this “emergency legislation”.
Still more ludicrous was the failure to address the elephant in the room – Snowden’s revelation that the NSA and GCHQ indulge in vast mass surveillance, of the communications of millions of people in the UK, with absolutely no regard for the legal framework anyway.
In the last few weeks there has been a concerted effort to ratchet up the fear of the extremely remote possibility of a terrorist attack. We have seen, as first lead on the news bulletins and front page headlines, the jailing of two young men for “terrorism” for fighting in Syria, when there was no evidence of any kind that they had any intention of committing any violence in the UK. We have the absolute nonsense of the mobile phone in airports charade. We had days of the ludicrous argument that ISIS success in Iraq will cause terrorist attacks in the UK. Now we have the urgent need for this “emergency legislation”.
Why is the fear ratchet being screwed right up just now? What is this leading up to?
@John: Russia has broken International Law once, many countries have broken International Law numerous times since the break up of the Soviet Union, and shed lots of blood (notably absent during the change of ruling power in Crimea) so I’m not having a go… just stating a fact.
OK, let’s forget common law, for our current purposes.
For statutory law to be passed it starts as a Bill…
“A Bill is a proposal for a new law, or a proposal to change an existing law that is presented for debate before Parliament. Bills are introduced in either the House of Commons or House of Lords for examination, discussion and amendment. When both Houses have agreed on the content of a Bill it is then presented to the reigning monarch for approval (known as Royal Assent). Once Royal Assent is given a Bill becomes an Act of Parliament and is law. ”
I remember following the progress of RIP through its various stages in 2000, and al the controversy it caused along the way. But how does this “due process” of law-making fit with the current Cameron/Clegg shenanigans?
Tucked away in Paragraph 43 of the notes on the emergency surveillance laws being rushed through parliament are the purposes for which communications data can be looked at.
Along with interests of national security, and in preventing crime, there is this: “For the purpose of assessing or collecting any tax, duty, levy or other imposition, contribution or charge payable to a government department.”
@KJH: Thank you for this.
How can this proposed legislation already have “cross party support” when it contains a paragraph such as this? Perhaps because they haven’t all read it yet, let alone consulted with their constituents? Isn’t this abuse of democracy?
Statute could be synonymous with shenanigans, Peacewisher. That’s the point of using Admiralty Law to regulate drivers through licensing and fees for registration of the vehicle.
That’s why they use the word ‘vessel’ for automobile and roads then become ‘waterways’. Our precious legislators (lawyers) established this ingenious systems of controls.
I do realise it might seem an almost impossible task..and I may well be useless at it..how could I know..I (just me – I am not part of any conspiracy) sure I have friends in the real world..You Know where you go out and meet people..and My Wife has Done That tonight…with our Son and Daughter) I know I write drunken bollocks…but I never fell out of love with her..and she didn’t with me….I have only spoken too her twice on the phone since we parted…for reasons that we had no control over…we never betrayed each other…and after all this time…she has confided in me…well a bit..we both have our own Families…Both Boy and Girl (Hers are a few Years Older Than Ours)
So My Wife Saw Me Writing To My Ex..She Already Knew…I had spoken to her on the phone in 1999 and in May 2014….But Those Two Phone Converastions Were The Only Ones..since My Ex..phoned me Up in Manchester and My New Girlfriend answered The Phone…
She Looks at Me Today….
Well Of Course…
She Could Hardly say Anything Else…
So Do You Want To Go and See Her…
There is a Train That Will Take You There…
I Looked at My Wife….
Its Not My Fault.
What am I supposed to Do???
So I asked My Lancashire Girlfriend…well I told her..she said you must be fuckin completely insane to talk to your ex….when….Your wife is so nice..She was really worried about me..cos she knows we other each other so…and then their is our Spanish Girlfriend…who (I really know this – just loves us both so much)
Please Pray For Her To Get Better
My Ex-Girlfriend (Nearly My Wife)
I just Love Her So…
I just want The Love To Flow….
I mean wtf are we doing here?..if not to be nice to each other and take The Evil Bastards To Court..a Court of Law…Starting with on our side…Scottish Actually…
ANTHONY CHARLES LYNTON BLAIR
He Kids are Older Than Mine..and Both are Top Lawyers
Don’t You Want To Take any Responsibilty
To Take on This EVIL Yourself..
And Confront It???
You would be Surprised…
Tony
@Ben: the laws on use of roads seem fair, whether or not its origin is in Maritime Law. Obviously plenty of debate etc. with MPs and constituents to make sure they got it right… 1931, I think.
It seems to me that in recent times laws are brought in without such public consultation. Use of the word “Emergency” is presumably used to get it through with minimum “fuss”. Wonder what the normal trigger point would be for Emergency legislation.
Personally, I think it is an extremely good idea to tell the truth…and if you don’t and you for example..well say the well You Know Like innocent Sweethearts,,,and you know…and after a year together..you really do not expect this…so you ..well what is the alternative…of course you are still in love with her..cos she never betrayed you..and you never betrayed her,,==but now you are with another…for another year too..and she gave me all her love..just so sweet,,,I mean what do you do..I thought she was betraying me..but probably wasn’t…There is absolutely No Way You Can Hide The Scratches On Your Back…
She Pretended Not To Notice..She Just Got Me Suited and Booted and Sent Me On My Way.
Yorkshire Girls are Something Else..
We Cried Together at her Council House in Buttershaw, She Liked Hawkwind Too…when John Lennon Died and Princess Diane Got Married…But 9 Months Later..I had Scratches Down My Back…
I only did it once.
She did have two kids that weren’t mine
I am not perfect…The morning after I would turn up at work..and they kust looked at me..just hoping..and I was covered with love bites all over my neck…
But its Tony..No Way…???
Not in the same league guys.
Tony
Question Time’s ‘passionate highlander’ is the William Wallace of the Better Together campaign”
Two words: sheep dip
I never thought of the 7/7 bombings as being anything but 4 Yorkshire Muslims who had gone off the rails killing ordinary civilians because of Tony Blair’s policies, the way the BBC and other MSM channels and news outlets presented it. Tony Gosling, who sometimes contributes here, has made me rethink.
http://rt.com/op-edge/172048-london-bombings-police-state/
@fedup, the thing to remember is, the government doesn’t give a rat’s ass what its subject population thinks, but it’s acutely sensitive to treaty bodies, charter bodies, special procedures, arbitral panels, and case law in independent courts. So by looking at those reviews (the original documents, not media accounts) you can often map changes in government doctrine or conduct point-by-point to coordinated pressure from those bodies. The impetus from the international community is intently suppressed.
[closed captions for the passive-aggressive provided by Ben]
two more: organophosphate-related neuropsychological-impairment
Where do we find secret decoder ring for how scared the State is about treaties and such?
What Americans need to Realise..We in England Really We Do Not Need Your Help..well O.K. a bit,,Can You Please Start Being Polite and Nice..My Wife and Kids Just Come Home…It was a Life Reggae and Ska Night..I Didn’t fancy it cos I wanted to talk to my Ex_Girlfriend One of The Other Loves of My Life…Is That O.K.? I just love her so..and No I couldn;t be so impolite…I just want all your Love to Flow To Her..She ain’t so good at the moment..Her Doctor Told Her..She just had asthma. For the First tine since 1999 ( we used to make love to each other in 1979)…So O>K. Facebook was O.K…we found each other again…we have rather obscure/different names – my wife asked me what she looks like now,,,and to be honest..I was just completely amazed…But I have told my wife….Yes I will show you the Time Stamped Photograoh…Of Her Son and Daughter on Her Son’s 30th Birthday…
Which Girl is My Ex?
Her or Her Daughter?
I did say that She Still Looks Exactly The Same since the last time I saw her in 1981 just before I met You…
These Angels Are Something Else – So Pray For Susan…She Was My First When I Was 3 Years Old…Girls are Something Else..Not Like Boys, I notice The Difference. I think they are on my side…but I can see that finger…
Oh Come On…
I’m a Good Boy.
And They Know I am.
All The Girls Love My Wife and Me.
I make sort of friends with my boy friends…but always think they want to make friends with my wife…sure I may be a bit paranoid…but she is an incredibly Nice Girl..My Wife,,
Tony
Take torture. In specific response to Human Rights Committee review (proceedings on video and embargoed Conclusions and Recommendations circulating in draft, last I looked), you can see the outward signs of a panicked struggle inside the US government to rejig its official superior-order defense so that it gets you off the hook and hooks somebody, anybody, else. Everybody knows they’ll need a scapegoat. JSOC’s choice for scapegoat is CIA. CIA’s choice is DoJ. DoJ’s choice is POTUS. They’ll need to pick individual virgins to throw into the volcano to atone for what’s now officially defined as a crime against humanity. It won’t get decided until after the Committee Against Torture piles on in the fall.
If I believed you were interested and not just sneering and sniping, there’s more to be said, but on like Crypto-cat, not here. But you can just sit and wait for the leaks.
Ref Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
11 Jul, 2014 – 11:14 pm
Mary re Question Time
How many more times are you going to preface or end a useless bit of information about a BBC programme (in this case, who was on it) by saying “I did not listen” or “Glad I missed it”?
Again the old question : what is the point??
We might just conceivably be interested in hearing your views about something which may have been said, but why should we be interested to learn that you didn’t listen to a programme?
******************
As I said before, button up a little. Just a little!
~~~
The link to QT was put up specifically for those interested, like many here, in the outcome of the Scottish referendum, the involvement of the BBC in the Better Together campaign and for general information.
As I have said before, fuck off a lot. Just a lot! You ghastly creature, that is if you are a living being.
What a very strange little piece from the psychopath.
No context. No links. He was obviously rattled.
‘Latest News
Statement from the Office of Tony Blair
Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 in Office of Tony Blair
The story is nonsense and we have told them so. Tony Blair is not a formal advisor to Sisi he has simply said that it is vital for Egypt, the region and the world that the new President and his Government succeed in reforming their country and taking it to a better future and that the international community supports them in doing so. He has said this publically on a number of occasions and also stated he would be happy to help galvanise that support if he can.
This is nothing to do with ‘business opportunities’ and we have absolutely no idea what correspondence the Guardian is referring to. Let me be very clear – neither Tony Blair, nor any of his organisations have any commercial interest in Egypt, nor are they seeking business in Egypt, nor have they ever discussed doing business in Egypt. This is simply incorrect.
What is true and we have made categorically clear is that there is no commercial interest in, and absolutely no intention to make money from, Egypt.’
http://www.tonyblairoffice.org/news/entry/statement-from-the-office-of-tony-blair/
blair, blair, blair, blair, blair, blair, blair, blair, blair.
That’s how many times, the name appeared in the link above. He obviously likes to see his name in print.
“By the way RD, whenever you get turned over in an argument, which is most of the time, you resort to attacking those who roll you on your back.”
Oh you mean with comments like this:
“Stop watching MSM or reading comments by ESLO/Resident Dissident.”
“RD, As you know I do not agree with torture whether it is the Eastern Liberation forces or Pro Kiev forces or your friends in Guantanamo and US Supermax prisons,”
John Goss
You interested in 7/7? Google: Martin ‘Abdullah’ McDaid, a former member of the SBS turned Islam convert, who worked in the bookshop in Beeston with the other alleged perps. Reportedly, he ‘did most of the talking, most of the ranting and raving; and as an ex-Marine, he knew about matters military’.
In an in interview with the Mirror he described himself:
‘I’m an ex-anti-terrorist operator. I spent one and a half years with the Special Forces – with the Special Boat Service.’
UK special forces guy becomes radical convert to Islam? How plausible is that? Perhaps he was a member of the First Battalion, Queens Own Spooky Patsy-makers
“That’s how many times, the name appeared in the link above. He obviously likes to see his name in print.”
But clearly not as many times as Mary does.
I am waiting for the first theory supporting the view that Brasil’s defeat to Germany was a false flag operation.
For those who still harbour any illusions about Mr Galloway
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/mps-paid-%C2%A3150000-six-months-journalism-work-george-galloway-equaling-his-mp-salary-four-months
John Goss
11 Jul, 2014 – 7:19 pm
“We will kill hundreds of them for each of ours” Was that Poroshenko, Hitler or Netenyahoo?
Whether they support them or not, Ukrainians know just what US / EU have brought back to life in Ukraine. Shame on them.
Great to see you back aboard, all cylinders firing.
Peacewisher
“Well…. this was considered a “best answer” on Yahoo Answer:
“…
Common law is a mechanism to bind people to a set of mores and traditions that statutory law is a mechanism to dictate to people how they will behave in that society whether or not it accords with their attitudes and preferences and whether or not it represents the common or majority view.
Common law is a true expression of a democratic and fair government, Statute law is an expression of authoritarian and dictatorial government.”
Anyone like to disagree with that final sentence?”
____________________
The perils of stopping thinking at the reading of Wikipedia. In summary:
1/. re the 1st para : the elements of common law go back many centuries (to medieval times). If, therefore, it “reflects the common attitudes and preferences agreed by or acceptable to that society”, then it reflects those of the centuries in which it arose, ie medieval times, in which it could hardly be said that democracy flourished. Representative democracy is relatively recent.
2/. re your question to the 2nd para : in the light of what I’ve just said, it is not possible to agree with the claim in that para.
Peacewisher
“I remember following the progress of RIP through its various stages in 2000, and al the controversy it caused along the way. But how does this “due process” of law-making fit with the current Cameron/Clegg shenanigans?”
____________________
I agree that “rushing through” a bill us an undesirable phenomenon and should not happen except in the most time-critical circumstances*. It often results in defective legislation with unforeseen consequences or outcomes. My own opinion is that the current bill does not merit “rushing through”.
However, “rushing through” does not mean that due process is not observed. It is, but all the stages of Parliamentary procedure are simply time-compressed.
“Rushing through” is obviously facilitated when govt and opposition agree on the thrust and contents of the bill in question (you will have noticed that recourse is not being made to the guillotine procedure).
___________
* an example I can think of off-hand was when an immigration bill was rushed through at the time of the expulsion of Asians from certain Eastern African countries.
Mary
“The link to QT was put up specifically for those interested, like many here, in the outcome of the Scottish referendum, the involvement of the BBC in the Better Together campaign and for general information.”
________________
“For general information”. Do you not think that this information is available in seconds for anyone interested?
You will keep posting this sort of “general information” on here. I’m beginning to suspect that you just feel impelled to keep posting throughout the day and that anything will do.
BTW, thanks for the “fuck off a lot” – much appreciated! 1
Thanks, Habby.
You are suggesting that modern laws are superior to medieval ones… I’m wondering what grounds you are basing that on.
I’d be with you about representative democracy if/when it is representative. How can Emergency Legislation be representative… almost by definition it is potentially “authoritarian and dictatorial”, which may be where/why the author of the Yahoo answer chooses to use such dramatic terminology..
The Emergency Powers Act that allows the government of the day to become dictators apparently came into being in early 1964 (!) In response, the BBC made a programme called “The War Game” which was banned, but many of us have seen at private showings over the years. This provided a scenario of what would happen if the government exerted these powers. Was there wide consultation? If even a BBC film was banned, I suggest not. I am also going to be cheeky enough to say that this legislation appeared whilst the Profumo Scandal was still having its effects, which would also be a time when the public had become suspicious of the morality of people in government.
I wonder if the BBC will make an update version of “The War Game”… can’t see it somehow.
Thanks Craig.
“In the last few weeks there has been a concerted effort to ratchet up the fear of the extremely remote possibility of a terrorist attack.”
Compare the phoney fear-creation program in the UK with the real fear-creation being done across the globe by the UK’s pets.
Was Inna Kukuruza a terrorist?
Do the geniuses who do these things really think Russian society will see the re-emergence of fascism in Europe without being gripped by deep and visceral fear and revulsion? That’s the kind of fear that mobilises the kind of grim and remorseless resistence that defeated both Hitler and Napoleon.
The best that the Gladio merchants can hope for is brief windows of opportunity to pass a few more repressive laws in a desperate attempt to protect them from their own populations and laws.
“Why is the fear ratchet being screwed right up just now?” Maybe because they know more and more people are finding them out and their fear level has reached their undergarments.
Our school master is making out that he is in charge here, always ready to intersperse a large news dissemination and discussion blog with his cyber stalking ways.
As a not so learned person he must have had problems at his last few establishment posts to be marched here to do pentence to his erstwhile paymasters.
He’s probably on a fat pension now and is ending his dubious existence in the shadow of paedophile inquieries tackling abuse during his hay days in education and a largely ignored massaker on Palestinians, a cyclical requirement of zionists that like to manufacture outrage to improve their drooping popularity figures by creasting fear and loathing en masse. You are an apolopgist for zionist murder and mayhem socket, thats sad and not clever.
Fuck off a lot is too nice, how about fuck off and die?
Rushed through? No of course not!
Troll: “My own opinion is that the current bill does not merit “rushing through”.” LOL
~~~~
Emergency data law: does UK need rushed ‘anti-terror’ bill?
The government plans to rush through emergency data law
Critics say new emergency data law breaches human rights – so why is the government ‘railroading’ it through?
LAST UPDATED AT 10:42 ON Thu 10 Jul 2014
Emergency surveillance bill a ‘stitch-up’ says Tom Watson
The government is set to announce plans to rush through emergency legislation that will force phone and internet companies to keep records of users’ online activities as well as customers’ calls and text messages.
Critics say that the bill presents a threat to people’s civil liberties. Below is an overview of what the bill proposes and why it is being pushed through so swiftly.
/..
http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/59392/emergency-data-law-does-uk-need-rushed-anti-terror-bill