The overruling of a European Court judgement to assert individual privacy, and the anti-democratic rushing of emergency legislation through parliament where no emergency exists, are the antithesis of liberalism. So of course is the jettisoning of all the Lib Dem manifesto pledges on civil liberties.
It is not news that Nick Clegg has become the poster boy for a politics utterly devoid of principle, organised purely around the desire of individual politicians for wealth and power. But even with all that background, I found Clegg’s enthusiastic ratcheting up of the fear factor over the “need” to protect us from virtually non-existent threats, utterly reprehensible.
At his press conference with Cameron, Clegg actually quoted the non-existent “liquid bomb plot to bring down multiple planes” as the reason these powers were needed. He even made a direct claim that telephone intercepts had been instrumental in “foiling” the “liquid bomb plot”. That is utterly untrue. The three men eventually convicted had indeed been under judge approved surveillance for a year. In that year, they made no reference to a plan to bring down airplanes, because there was no such plan. The only “evidence” of a plan to bring down multiple airplanes came from a Pakistani torture chamber. There never was a single liquid bomb. 90% of those arrested in the investigation were released without charge or found not guilty.
The three found guilty had done little more than boast and fantasise about being jihadis. That is not to say they were nice people. They may even have done some harm, though if Clegg were in any sense a Liberal he would not be supportive of imprisoning people in case they one day do some harm. But they had never made a liquid bomb or made a plan to bring down multiple airlines.
The point is, that while any ordinary member of the public could be forgiven for believing in the Liquid Bomb Plot, given all the lies of the mainstream media, Clegg has to be aware that he is spreading deliberate lies and propaganda to justify this “emergency legislation”.
Still more ludicrous was the failure to address the elephant in the room – Snowden’s revelation that the NSA and GCHQ indulge in vast mass surveillance, of the communications of millions of people in the UK, with absolutely no regard for the legal framework anyway.
In the last few weeks there has been a concerted effort to ratchet up the fear of the extremely remote possibility of a terrorist attack. We have seen, as first lead on the news bulletins and front page headlines, the jailing of two young men for “terrorism” for fighting in Syria, when there was no evidence of any kind that they had any intention of committing any violence in the UK. We have the absolute nonsense of the mobile phone in airports charade. We had days of the ludicrous argument that ISIS success in Iraq will cause terrorist attacks in the UK. Now we have the urgent need for this “emergency legislation”.
Why is the fear ratchet being screwed right up just now? What is this leading up to?
@Habby regarding “rushing through”.
I see where you are coming from but in this case due process is about consultation, and that necessarily takes time.
I know you like to tease all of us but can also detect your own unease in this matter – on the one hand this is reassuring but on the other hand worrying, in that you (like many of us, I suppose) don’t see it necessary to be any more than just “uneasy”, as if that will make a difference to those in government. Would the 1964 Act have been used for purposes of control if the conservatives had won the 1964 election, for example? I’m much too young to know about those times but maybe someone can shed a little light…
Please don’t feed the trolls.
I wanted to know what he thought about it, Mary. Not as a troll, but as a person.
Fed up at 9.23 pm on 11 July: My comment was not taken from any public open source. While it was inspired by a friend sending me a copy of his letter to his MP, I amended and added a lot to that text. I’m happy for others to use or draw on my letter to Tessa Jowell in emailing their MP.
On Phil’s points (passim) about the system being broken and the need to join the revolution, I don’t disagree but like him I’m stuck with our current clapped-out vehicle. The revolution has not yet rolled off the production line, nor has Phil provided the design specifications or addresses where I can buy into his brave new world. Most people here seem to agree with Craig’s explanation why the proposed legislation is so objectionable; and are adding to his analysis or developing related themes. That all forms part of the zeitgeist, though I’m sure that neither I nor Mary would regard writing to MPs as anything more than a rather minor contribution to public debate on this and other issues.
So, my stand is against the Russell Brand/ Phil principled apathists and on the side of the more activist* – admittedly with some fascist leanings – Plato: “One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” (Source: The Pessimist’s Handbook,2008 p 110. Please add visual illustration of Phil as John Cleese looking down on the hoi polloi who have the temerity to comment on Craig’s blogs).
* Activists are all proto-fascists, but in healthy societies these tendencies are kept in check by there being no legal obstacles to anyone being an activist. That’s why it’s important to prevent or dismantle this latest Home Office obstacle to freedom from state-registered snoopers and clypes.
“You are suggesting that modern laws are superior to medieval ones… I’m wondering what grounds you are basing that on.”
How about modern laws apply to everyone while medieval laws only applied to the upper classes?
The common man, the vast majority, were effectively slaves. Had no free will and no self determination. No freedom of movement. Could not even get married without the permission of the lord. They had no rights whatsoever.
“You are suggesting that modern laws are superior to medieval ones… I’m wondering what grounds you are basing that on.”
The laws on slavery, sending children up chimneys and bear baiting come to mind.
Liberalism is just a useless slogan.
Ok… but those laws reflected the culture of the time, for those who did have a say. We don’t agree with child labour or cruelty to animals, but those were the norms of the day.
The norms of the day in 2014 are based on (representative) democracy. The impending legislation is another step towards undermining such common norms through further distorting the “representative” bit.
Do you have a better one, Arsalan?
Slightly off-topic, but it is somewhat bizarre that the only mm outlet that properly covered yesterday’s demonstration in London was the Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2689465/Hundreds-pro-Palestinian-demonstrators-bring-London-traffic-standstill-protest-outside-Israeli-embassy.html
Perhaps their motives were not as we would wish?
(i.e. get the water cannon ready, Boris!)
The day that happens Peacewisher (finding out what he thinks) it will rain blue ink. Excuse me but I have reason to be prejudiced in this matter.
OK, Mary. We all have our prejudices 🙂
“Along with interests of national security, and in preventing crime, there is this: “For the purpose of assessing or collecting any tax, duty, levy or other imposition, contribution or charge payable to a government department””
This provision is not new. It’s to be found in the
Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_Investigatory_Powers_Act_2000
The herd of stampeding elephants in the room, Craig, and intelligence services flexing new muscles and field testing IT Virtual Power Control. Or are y’all here of the opinion that established and Establishment spooky default services are as cowed cuckolds and mindlessly status quo dependent rather than rapid and even rabidly active and extremely stealthy revolutionary independent special operation forces?
And whoever would one ask to know, and for it to be, however plausibly, implausibly denied, for as is being increasingly recognised and discussed here, is the System rattled by something way beyond both its practical and virtually remote command and control.
We are now looking to Germany to make some kind of stand against this kind of US led fear-bombing of us.
Imagine the UK out of the EU, and we would be left on this island with US drones; “Cameron, Clegg and Milliband.
Dan Huil
11 Jul, 2014 – 4:00 pm
Agreed you hit pay dirt to Craig’s questions:
Why is the fear ratchet being screwed right up just now? What is this leading up to?
The Daily Wail harbinger is here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2446636/Scotland-likely-suffer-catastrophic-terror-attack-achieves-independence.html
Security at Faslane has been reinforced since my recent post:
scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/faslane-vulnerable-to-terrorists-1-1098140
Another 2007 Glasgow airport attack is too obvious. Scotland £24 billion oil and gas reserve pipelines are the perfect target…
@Mary
“The absence of liberalism aka the presence of fascism.”
Not much liberalism here in Mary’s comments from the last three threads alone. Strangely enough those leaping to Mary’s defence when anyone expresses the slightest criticism tend to ignore the bile she dispenses so liberally.
“As I have said before, fuck off a lot. Just a lot! You ghastly creature, that is if you are a living being.”
“Please don’t feed the trolls.”
“Too many books, many unreadable and not enough hours in the day or months in the year to read them anyway. Stick to what you are doing Craig. Much more worthwhile.”
““For Heaven’s sake button up just a little!” Take your own advice why don’t you.”
“Did he have Edwina on his lap when they watched it together? What an unlikely pairing that was.”
“Sicko Anon is on to his usual form”
“How disgusting to say that anyone can ‘get off’ on the killing of innocents including little children. Beyond words. Suggest a mouthwash.”
“More useless information. Telling us what we already know except they say ‘may have’ rather than ‘have’.”
“The empty words from the mouth of the psychopath.”
“He (i.e.the former Archbishop of Canterbury) should have been a rabbi.”
MJ
At 7.24pm on 11/7 you posted that Alex. Salmond is an idiot. I asked you to elaborate, you have not done so. Why should anyone listen to your anti-SNP rants, which have no substance to support them?
“MJ
At 7.24pm on 11/7 you posted that Alex. Salmond is an idiot. I asked you to elaborate, you have not done so. Why should anyone listen to your anti-SNP rants, which have no substance to support them?”
I have been unable to locate either of those posts.
All true R2D2. How long did that silly little exercise take you?
Most have no context and one of them was written by your best mate, the troll aka Habbabkuk. Check before you make any more slurs.
Get a life and contribute something worthwhile here for a change.
“Great to see you back aboard, all cylinders firing.”
I needed the break Sofia. Looking forward to the next. Great cartoon by the way. No need for words.
KOWN, will take a look. Thanks for the lead.
The Dimblebores have both been in Scotland. Senior on Question Time and Junior on Any Questions from Pollokshields.
The AQ panel is Jim Murphy – Better Together and Labour Friend of Israel, Nicola Sturgeon, deputy first minister MSP, chair of the Westminster Defence Select Committee Rory Stewart Con MP and a journalist on The Scotsman and Sunday Post, Lesley Riddoch.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b048nsnh
Any Answers is usually a more bearable programme to listen it. It follows the AQ repeat which is being broadcast on Radio 4 at the moment. A question on the public sector strike follows one on Gaza.
A local authority in Surrey has been found out in placing cameras within a council owned property on suspicion of drug dealing and handling by the residents. Dummy cameras were placed outside and the real cameras were disguised in plastic cable shielding in the building.
A local, aged 27 and described as a ‘mobile marketer’ ie a mobile phone salesman, interviewed about the spying said: …I don’t think we’re over monitored. I’m not worried because I’m not doing anything I shouldn’t be’.
Oh dear! The poor lad’s brain has been fried by his mobiles.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/guildford-borough-council-illegally-installed-7378049
They making the final preparations for the totalitarian police state. The banking crash is imminent and they plan to steal everyone’s money to pay for it. They hope to brutally repress any rebellion. My guess is that too many are awake now and they’ll have real problems getting enough idiots to put their lives on the line to keep the scum in power.
“Get a life and contribute something worthwhile here for a change.”
You just don’t get it do you?
BTW the quote you attribute to Habba was you quoting him. Please note the second set of inverted commas. The slurs are all your own liberal handiwork.
“MJ
At 7.24pm on 11/7 you posted that Alex. Salmond is an idiot. I asked you to elaborate, you have not done so”
Don’t think that was me. A while back however on another thread I suggested Alex Salmond showed weakness when he did not stand up to Donald Trump and that this did not augur well for future dealings with more powerful operators such as NATO and the oil companies. I said that at the time however so no further elaboration is required I would have thought.
At 7.24pm on 11/7 I responded to a suggestion that the yes campaign was winning by drawing attention to the opinion polls. Is that really an anti-SNP rant? No-one asked me to elaborate. The polls speak for themselves.
So now London is threatening Scotland with devastating cyber attacks if it votes Yes in the referendum, as only it, the USA, India, China, and Russia have the capability to do so, and it would have the most likely motive for doing so then.
Think a more devastating attack is more likely before the vote to make sure nothing is necessary after it.
Sorry, my error, it was 2nd July at 7.31 on the Public Servce topic. But it WAS YOU.
I asked you to elaborate on your assertion that Alex Salmond was an idiot. Surely you remember making that remark.
An answer now would be welcome.
Peacewisher
“Thanks, Habby.
You are suggesting that modern laws are superior to medieval ones… I’m wondering what grounds you are basing that on.”
__________________
No, I’m saying that statute law is more modern and a response to the contemporary situation as opposed to life 700 years ago. Nothing to do with being “superior”.
************
I have the sneaking suspicion that you’re not seeking to learn but merely trying to wind me up. Or just slow on the uptake? Whichever it is, if you decide to put any more “questions” I’ll leave it to someone else – perhaps an Eminence – to answer. 🙂