Born Kneeling 1248

What comes out to me from the “Black Spider letter” correspondence of Prince Charles published today is how utterly obsequious Tony Blair and New Labour ministers were to him. No sign whatsoever of radicalism from the former “People’s Party” as they fell over to ingratiate themselves with the heir to the throne. I rather enjoyed Charles quite sharp tone to Blair.

I am fundamentally opposed to the existence of the monarchy. It will hopefully be replaced by a better system, but no human system is perfect. Given that we have a monarchy at present, you will perhaps be surprised to learn that I do not see anything wrong in Charles’ letters, which put forward views which are much what we would have expected him to hold. Of course there is interaction between the monarchy and government, and of course we should get rid of this hereditary element. But Charles’ lobbying is hugely less damaging and pernicious than the corporate lobbying I witnessed throughout my Whitehall career. At least Charles is not lobbying them for corporate advantage and giving large political donations at the same time.

While in my view he did nothing wrong in writing the letters, he and government are both very wrong in arguing they should be private. It is when it is secret that such attempts to wield influence between two branches of government – and monarchy is a branch of government – can be most simply perverted to ill ends. That such publication will not occur again because government has legislated to keep it secret, is an example of the privileged arrogance that prevents this from being a genuine democracy.

Altogether not that big a story and it gives Rusbridger and the Guardian the chance to pose as radical. I find the fact that what is published is so anodyne and unobjectionable rather suspicious – what has not been published? Rusbridger is of course the editor who complied enthusiastically with a GCHQ instruction to smash the Snowden hard drives. The existence of other copies does not justify this any more than it justifies book-burning.

By coincidence, a very worthwhile article by Michael Gillard that had been excised from the net has recently been republished, setting out how Rusbridger in 2002 conspired with Andy Hayman of the Met to bury an investigation into police corruption, including the burglary of the Stephen Lawrence inquiry. By a further coincidence I was having a pint with Laurie Flynn in Sandy Bell’s four days ago.

Hayman went on to be the promoter of the stream of lies about the murder of Jean Charles De Menezes and the publicist of numerous fake terrorist plots, before having to resign in a scandal involving nubile police officers at public expense in tropical islands.

Rusbridger and his extraordinary wig go on and on as a pretend opposition outlet, their reputation much dented by recent hysterical unionist output which exceeds the Daily Express. But Rusbridger’s continued usefulness to the establishment is not in doubt. The pose of publishing the most harmless of Prince Charles’ letters does little to help a threadbare disguise.

1,248 thoughts on “Born Kneeling

1 2 3 42
  • fedup

    Don’t fall for the dog and pony show!

    This is a sales promotion to make Charles more cuddly and less eccentric. Although that poor chap has had the longest apprenticeship going, cuz mummy is still not prepared to give up running the firm. That is despite the example set by the other monarchs in Europe. Evidently al Saud principles are pretty much the standard in Buck palace.

  • Wasp_Box

    Yes, quite.

    Charles comes across as the person you would expect him to be. Why there was this “secrecy nonsense” is a bit surprising. It seems to me that the money they spent on supporting the “Prince’s right to privacy” would have been better spent on getting people decent homes (something tells me that the large-eared fellow would probably agree).

  • vronsky

    Prince Charlie is ok by me. He seems to have a reasonable and informed view on most things. Except he should get himself a job instead of living on benefits.

    He’s a bloody foreigner too, now that I think about it – Greek or German or some fucking ghastly thing. Think I’ll vote UKIP.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    I have never met Prince Charles…but I once saw The Queen Mother…And I won’t Mention Princess Diane…But Compared To The Politicians, Bankers and Wankers We Have currently Got in Control…well…just another form of Monarchy init…except The British Monarchy Were Brought To Account and came to such a kind of Balance…that Even Now..The “Peasants” Love Them…

    Now I aren’t Going To Argue with History..and The Place We Currently are At…

    But FFS

    So I got a bit Angry after a completely Beautiful Day

    Look – I can’t Help It.. I Care..

    Everything The “Elite” Think They Know is Based on Political Ideology, Religion, Arts and Faith. It is Not Based on Physical Science & Technology….

    Sure The Planet Earth Has Limits Re Exponential Population Growth..But These Religious Lunatics in Control..On The One Side We Have Them Saying Go Forth and Multiply and Fill The Earth..and On The Other Side We Have Lets Kill all The Fckers.

    Its a Really Crap Way To Try and Run a Planet…

    There are Far Better Ways…and I Keep Trying To Dckin Tel You…But You Won’t Believe Me…

    How Can I Take Any Of You Morons Seriously..when you don’t understand even the basics…like 9/11…

    Oh Come on..Are You All Such Mindless Zombies…And You Guys are in Control..?

    You are as Bad as The Management of The English Cricket Team…

    Jesus..You are So Shiit…

    Well..I didn’t vote for any of you useless [email protected]

    Yes I am Offensive..Cos You are Rubbish.


  • Mary

    When I put up s link to the Guardian ‘revelations’ on the previous thread, the same thought had crossed my mind about Rusbridger and the Snowden hard drives. All of Rusbridger’s credibility, if in fact it ever existed, has gone.

  • rescue me

    The current alternative to the monarchy is President Blair / Cameron / insert failed politician’s name here. Is it really that bad?

  • Tom Welsh

    Ever read Edmund Burke? His complaint, towards the end of the 18th century, was that the delicate balance of the British constitution was being disturbed: the King had too much power. Burke was right about that, and it got him in hot water. Nevertheless, wiser heads recognized that he was right – and even the King conceded the accuracy of his diagnosis.

    If Burke could be brought back to life today, he would be shocked and appalled at the state of the British constitution. Of the three elements that should be in perfect balance, the monarchy and the House of Lords have been completely removed from the picture. The House of Commons rules supreme – and it is wholly controlled by the Prime Minister. Like it or lump it, David Cameron is now the UK’s elected dictator for another five years. The MPs might just as well stay in their constituencies conducting surgeries, or indeed go and disport themselves in Hawaii or the West Indies.

    What would Burke say to all this? He would recommend that the House of Lords be reconstituted, comprising only hereditary peers and bishops. Also that the monarch be given back a suitable share of power and decision-making discretion. Today, the nation is in a state of advanced decay because the constitution has been allowed to decay. One man rules supreme, just as the monarch did in the days before Parliament. As a result, we are continually fighting costly, illegal, immoral foreign wars, and subject to pernicious corporate and foreign influences.

  • Republicofscotland

    Royalty pffft.. unelected and unaccountable.

    Now at least with Prime or First Minister if they’re not up to the task, we can get shot of them.

    I would like to think that an independent Scotland would kick the Saxe Coburg-Gotha Windsors into touch after old Lizzie kicks the bucket.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Hi Craig,

    Sorry, it was a bit longer than a text message..and I do Respect You and your website…would just a link be O.K….

    I just thought what the guy wrote was brilliant.

    I had never heard of him..and I do realise that his credentials would instantly turn off most of your supporters and fan club.

    “John Chuckman is former chief economist for a large Canadian oil company.”

    Like a Red Flag To a Bull..but what he wrote I replied…

    “I had never heard of John Chuckman, but this is one of the best analyses of modern historic and current world events I have ever read. Go to the top of the class Sir. So far as I can see you got 10/10.

    Full Marks.

    Now, how about writing about some possible solutions?”

    How is Cameron…and Nadira?

    My Lad is fine…27…still lives at home..and everything I wrote is true….

    Sorry if you don’t like it.


  • Rusbridger's wig

    Arf! Arf arf arf! Arf arf arf arf! Arf! Rrrr… Arf arf! Arf arf! Arf arf arf arf! Arf arf! Arf! Arf! Arf arf arf arf!

  • Robert Crawford

    Craig Murray.

    The contents of Prince Charles letters is neutral, and nothing to write home about.

    On the other hand, what Cameron and co intend to do with our Human Rights has to be stopped.

    Thanks to Mark Golding for detailing how diabolical Cameron’s intentions are.

    Why do we buy newspapers when they are not being straight with us?

    As far as the cops are concerned, I have my own long running dispute with them.

    I will say it again,” I do not have as much as a parking ticket to my name”. However, I seem to be to them, Public Enemy Number One.

    My Freedom of Information Request/Subject Access Request, have been refused in the past and, recently, refused again. And I am not a Prince or a big newspaper.

    A democracy?

  • Giyane


    What kind of pfffft was that exactly? Notice no troll comments in the presence of royalty. Was that a Pfftocopy of habba’s bum irreverentially left for the Queen in the MI5 office or the Pffft! I give Habbachat when he craps in my front garden.

    Both Babybugger and Nonce1 have been banned from commenting about establishment figures after squelching their toes in it last time.


  • Tony_0pmoc

    Tom Welsh,

    You write so simply and brilliantly, but I am a simple man, and although my Scottis Grandfather Taught Music, and My Niece is an accomplished Musician, and I can’t play for Toffee..well maybe Iron Man..better than Tony Blair..I am rubbish at Music…though I have loved music since Birth..I just do not have that natural talent…which sometimes I see in a Child…

    It’s a Gift

    And the Thing About The British Monarchy…

    well you obviously know your history chapter and verse..I was more interested in physics,chemistry,maths,biology,general science, photography and girls…

    I was totally crap at girls..cos I was so shy…but I saw the potential there…

    So then I turn up at this pub 40 years later…

    And the Just So Good..and He is Only 12 Years Old…

    So I think His Dad Must Be Jimi Page or Someone Really Famous…

    He Says No My Dad Fcked Off When I was a Kid…

    So His New Dad – Asked Me..I said..O.K…and did it and it worked…

    The Kid is So Talented…

    He went to School With My Son & Daughter…

    Never Recognised in School For His Musical Talent

    Never Was Even Asked To Appear at The School’s Final Event

    What Was It????

    Wrong Colour…

    No it was Because He was Playing Pubs when He Was 12 Years Old…

    So When He Finished School…

    The Americans invited Him…

    Come and Play Here in New York

    He always Said My Daughter Was a Naughty Girl..But I Never Believed Him.

    That is Hereditary.

    I Met His Mum.

    If you are that good you rise above those ….

    It’s Not About Money..It’s About Respect..If you are THAT Good..You do Not want to Control anyone else…you are just attractive..the best want to play with you…and ask..well how???


  • RobG

    Robert Crawford, do you wanna take a bet?

    This new Tory government will be gone within a year (it might even be gone by the end of the summer).

    There’s going to be massive civil unrest in England and Wales.

    People are no longer going to put up with this bollocks.

    With just 34% of the vote, and just about all the MSM behind them, Cameron still has to do ‘events’ with select audiences.

    If this piece of shite actually walked on the streets of Britain, he knows that he would be quite literally torn to pieces.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

    “There’s going to be massive civil unrest in England and Wales.2

    Will you return from France to play your part, RobG?

    Or will you just be shouting from the touchline? 🙂

  • fedup

    Thousands of northerners demand to break away from south of England and join ‘New Scotland’

    There is hope for us yet.


    With just 34% of the vote, and just about all the MSM behind them, Cameron still has to do ‘events’ with select audiences.

    If this piece of shite actually walked on the streets of Britain, he knows that he would be quite literally torn to pieces.

    Just take a look at the elected reps house; barricaded and inside a metal detector ring, manned by police at hand to search interrogate and monitor any citizen who dares to show up there.

    these bastards living in their gated communities, paid for by the tax payers blood and sweat are not cutting back on their security but beefing it up, all the while turning the police into a paramilitary Blackshirts insurance companies enforcers.

    Read the corporate media and their rush to rubbish the human rights act, no need to let any law get in the way, they have means to rewrite any law that slightly hinders them.

    turning the Bobbies into Rambos is all part of the path of keeping the plebs in check these bastards in gubimnet know what a mess they have made of this place.

  • Mary

    Where are they now?

    Lord Blair Commissioner at the Met when Jean Charles was murdered.

    Commissioner of controversy
    Death of Jean Charles de Menezes tops list of scandals that have dogged British policing’s most senior officer

    A. At this moment, sitting on the sofa on Sky News reviewing the papers.

    His register of interests on the Lords website

    Register of Interests

    2: Remunerated employment, office, profession etc.
    Speaking, writing and broadcasting – various sources
    JLA Speaking Services (fees over £1000)
    Visiting Fellow, Institute of Public Safety, Crime and Justice, University of Northampton

    His other niches

    Public life

    Trustee Woolf Institute 2011-
    Trustee Shakespeare’s Globe 2010-
    Trustee Longford Trust 2010-
    Chair Thames Valley Partnership 2009-

  • Mary

    Hayman. Nothing recent on the net.

    This about his extravagant entertaining of NoTW journalists inc Coulson on a Met credit card.

    Phone hacking: Police chief Andy Hayman paid for champagne dinners with News of the World journalists
    The senior Scotland Yard officer accused of failing to fully investigate the phone hacking scandal enjoyed champagne dinners with News of the World journalists paid for using his Metropolitan Police corporate credit card.
    July 2011

    ‘News of the World phone hacking affair

    Hayman was in charge of the initial inquiry into phone hacking by the News of the World. In April 2010 The Guardian reported that he “subsequently left the police to work for News International as a columnist.”[16] He has contributed to The Times,[17] owned by NI, and there has “written in defence of the police investigation and maintained there were ‘perhaps a handful’ of hacking victims.”

    Hayman appeared before the Home Affairs Select Committee on 12 July 2011 when he confirmed that he had received hospitality from people he was investigating in relation to a criminal offence, although he regarded this as normal and operational matters were not discussed.[19] During this hearing, Select Committee member Lorraine Fullbrook said that the public saw him as a “dodgy geezer” for the financial and sexual allegations surrounding his resignation from the police, for his “cosying up to the executives of News International” and for “the disaster” of his enquiry into the phone hacking scandal. Simon Hoggart wrote of Hayman’s appearance that:

    He must be given his own sitcom, a blend of Life On Mars and Minder, starring Hayman as Del Boy. [. . .] Put it this way: I wouldn’t let him sell me a cheap Rolex, if I wanted to know the time.’


    He is probably having a nice life on his large police pension.

  • John Goss

    “If Burke could be brought back to life today, he would be shocked and appalled at the state of the British constitution.”

    Tom Welsh, Burke was a political theorist who moved with the tide of public opinion. You might call him a pragmatist. He defended the monarchy with his “Reflections on the French Revolution” because he saw republicanism as something to be feared. Thomas Paine very meticulously dismantled Burke’s arguments in his “Rights of Man”. But, of course, both would be critical of the current state of English and British Politics. Incidentally both had Quaker backgrounds, and George III with his first and secret marriage to Hannah Lightfoot, the fair Quaker, would have entertained both opinions. Apparently his children with Hannah used to play with the establishment children.

    What is worse today is that the establishment institutions provide through indoctrination the material for future exploiters of the general public in this country in a “survival of the fittest” mentality. It’s all here. Well some of it. I do not believe Burke or Paine would have approved of educating children to be deliberately desensitised to state murder and other state crimes.

  • Mary

    I’m with this comment on Medialens ref P Charles’ letters.

    ‘Actually, John, it’s more simply the principle that he sits at the head of a deeply undemocratic, feudal and rampantly privileged institution, that he supports this wicked warmongering state, promotes its arms sales to other murdering, despot states, and peddles all sorts of hypocritical eco views while raking it in as a corporate-grasping, environment-destroying landowner. Apart from that, I’ve nothing against Mr Windsor the human being.’

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Mary, – and all you lot, who have been posting here for years….

    Well I don’t know who any of you are cos I have never met any of you so far as I know…but I am not lying – sure I can be incredibly boring..and I stutter when I am drunk…but so far as I know, I am still fit and healthy, and my wife a few years younger than me is too…She is nearly 60 too..and my Ex who I love too.

    We meet lots of lovely people through going out and seeing bands play live….

    All ages…within the last few years we have been to Birthday Parties of People we have met through our interest in live performance…mainly music from 18-80 years old ..and in the last 12 months have been to 4 weddings…occasional funeral too..but that’s just life (and death)..

    I would love to meet you Girl

    Mary, You are Just so full of Passion and Brilliant Research.

    It is not your fault that people fall out with you…who were once your friends…

    I have that problem too…but I never – well hardly ever talk religion or politics with my friends…

    But they do…and a couple of my mates have been best friends for over 15 years…

    Its good to talk to them both..and try and get them back together by inviting them to the same place at the same time…

    I said to one of them…it doesn’t matter if you are left or right…

    What is important is whether or not you are a cunt or not.

    That kind of cuts through the “posh” ice.

    and hopefully brings them back together and talk.

    My wife and I love both these guys.

    We think its ridiculous to fall out over political beliefs…when they were both so close.


1 2 3 42

Comments are closed.