The SNP’s New MPs 180


There is a good and balanced article in the Guardian on the SNP MPs by Carole Cadwalladr. Thank goodness Severin Carrell and Libby Brooks must have been unavailable. I am struck that of those she chose to interview, Tommy Sheppard (my MP), Mhairi Black, Chris Law, Michelle Thomson, John Nicolson, Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh are all people I am on first name terms with and almost all of whom I have shared platforms with. It is quite a small community (though until the selection panel I hadn’t seen John Nicolson for 30 years).

Cadwalladr’s worry that the MPs will become seduced by Westminster has worried me too. But I don’t think it will happen. These are exceptionally strong characters and there is a self-reinforcing group of them, and they have a very active base of supporters with eagle eyes.

Naturally Cadwalladr’s article relays as fact ludicrous Labour claims that the SNP in Scotland does not implement progressive social policies (ignoring no tuition fees, free prescriptions, free geriatric personal care, land reform etc). Given it’s lack of control of fiscal and benefits policy, they could hardly do more. But the general tone of the Cadwalladr article is so far away from the simplistic “SNP evil” line which we normally see from the Guardian, that I shall hope for a while that the departure of the Blair-worshipping clown Rusbridger and his wig may see the paper return to some kind of journalistic values.


180 thoughts on “The SNP’s New MPs

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  • Resident Dissident

    Silly argument Mr Goss – evolution rather than God determines what bits we are given. Surely there has to be some proven damage before you start interfering in what people do to their own or their children’s bodies – otherwise why not ban shaving, hair cuts, ear and other piercing, cutting toe nails, hair dye etc. etc. With FGM I think the case is pretty well proven – with circumcision (whatever the religion – it was and still is practiced in Christianity as well as Judiasm and Islam).

  • Resident Dissident

    “36% of those who voted, and 24% of those eligible to vote put an X beside the psychos who are now the government (and just about the entire MSM were pushing these arseholes). Hardly a ringing endorsement, old chap”

    I didn’t say it was.

  • lysias

    Some Christians may allow their children to be circumcised. I was circumcised myself. But such Christian parents were persuaded by medical claims, not by anything religious. I don’t think it’s accurate to say that circumcision is “practiced in Christianity”. That language is at the least misleading.

  • Resident Dissident

    I don’t think it’s accurate to say that circumcision is “practiced in Christianity”.

    Still is in the Coptic Church and other churches in Africa – and used to be practiced much more widely in the earlier Christian churches. There is very little on which the Christian religion is able to take the moral high ground vis a vis other religions when you delve back into its past history.

  • Clark

    Lysias, 8:53 pm:

    “Exaro News seems not to permit cutting and pasting from their articles…”

    Disable Javascript (eg. use Firefox with NoScript). Get back control of your own computer (a bit).

  • lysias

    Mention of the Coptic Church raises the interesting issue of the origins of circumcision. It was apparently first practiced in ancient (pre-Roman, pre-Alexander, pharaonic) Egypt. Odd that it became such a sacred matter in Judaism, when one considers how anti-Egyptian much of the Old Testament is.

    And to blame contemporary Christianity for circumcision is like blaming it for slavery today. Christianity has changed.

  • John Goss

    “Silly argument Mr Goss – evolution rather than God determines what bits we are given.

    ————————————–
    A lot of religions, religious sects, and even some evolutionists might not agree with you. My understanding is that this “instruction” to (I think it was Moses but may have gone back to Abraham, and it may well have been due to sand and other foreign bodies causing trauma in a very hot country.

    “Surely there has to be some proven damage before you start interfering in what people do to their own or their children’s bodies – otherwise why not ban shaving, hair cuts, ear and other piercing, cutting toe nails, hair dye etc. etc. With FGM I think the case is pretty well proven – with circumcision (whatever the religion – it was and still is practiced in Christianity as well as Judiasm and Islam).”

    And so we should stop doing all this if society was amenable. There is far too much vanity in the world, to which even I have to adhere. 🙂 You start shaving, the body says “Hey I need to produce more hair.” You can work the rest out.

  • lysias

    “Surely there has to be some proven damage before you start interfering in what people do to their own or their children’s bodies – otherwise why not ban shaving, hair cuts, ear and other piercing, cutting toe nails, hair dye etc. etc. With FGM I think the case is pretty well proven – with circumcision (whatever the religion – it was and still is practiced in Christianity as well as Judiasm and Islam).”

    Doesn’t the reduction in sexual pleasure resulting from circumcision amount to a damage that requires justification?

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Cut your garbage there is circumscision in Islam as well.

    Also in the C of E in the not too distant past.

    I’m afraid you have been thoroughly outed.

    Could be. But I’m getting a whiff of agent provocateur, too.

  • John Goss

    “A bit unfair to assign Jeremy to political oblivion I would say. Please remind us how Left Unity did in the last election.”

    So, RD, first name terms. How well do you know Jeremy? Have you met? Does he approve of your right-wing New Labour views?

    As to Left Unity it took a while to get to launched. It may fizzle out, and that would be a pity, but it is an attempt to unite the left (the meaning of which I suspect you have no idea).

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Craig, can you please stop mentioning people I personally know..but anyway I ain’t going to talk much Nationalism Left VS Right stuff much..But O.K. I know I am already probably pre-deleted but what the hell – its your blog…I have absolutely no problem with Clark or any of you correcting my spelling mistakes so long as you don’t delete some really crucial words in the sentence I am writing which completely changes the entire meaning of what I had written.

    This was at Cambridge Rock Festival – the first time we went there in 2007 – held near an American Airbase…Incidentally..we had no idea who the band were headlining the Saturday Night…we had never heard of them…but personally knew two of the musicians..who play down our local pub…and some of their fans…They come up to us cos we know him..and its as if I personally know Robert Plant…or Neil Young as just a mate…I says no mate..he’s completely normal…well for a musician – a bit up his own arese – but so what the fuck…that comes with the territory..and he looks me in the face..What ..You Reall Know Him..well I have a chat and a beer with him at half time…what’s the big Deal???And The Kid Thinks He is God…and I just don’t get it..what him..don’t stupid – that’s just Harry…and You Bought his Image…Its just Rock & Roll..

    Don’t you Understand..or even Start To understand the World Geopoliticial Game

    Yes..Its a bit like 3D Chess…which is very hard to visualise – let alone play.

    The Americans think they have got it covered…with all Their Military Bases All Over The World (including England) and They Spell It Out To Us…

    “We are in Control”

    Yeh sure mate..why the fck have you just taken away my food..which I was cooking in the open..with no threat to anyone??

    That is all My wife and I have to eat…and you have not only just taken it from us..but you have to live with us for the next 4 days..and I am seriously going to wind the fck out of you…as we get hungry….

    We had him tears…

    Tony

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Anyhoo, looks like the trolls have led us a merry dance away from endorsement of SNP MP’s.

    Remounting the topic….
    Cameron’s bring-back-hunting Bill’s up soon. And that would be torn apart for fun if the SNP voted against. Their first test, I think. Tricky decision, as they’re pledged not to vote on English-only matters. Is that what it is?

  • nevermind

    “Lysias – can you stop ranting on about the Jews for a minute? If Janner’s a paedophile then he’s a paedophile. There’s no need to keep shoehorning your hatred of Jews into the matter.”

    Far from it, yours very ignoramus of all mighty cocks man valor,

    His community and life in public the contacts he kept, Jews, Christians and catholics, had inklings and dismissed the anxious calls, the warning signs. He has abused his own tribe and is now doing an Ernest Saunders. They have been quiet, but how much longer before they speak out in support of their own children.
    Was it gods will for Janner to abuse their children?

    Unless there are conclusive scans the man should be going to court, as should his apologists in the community who effectively assisted in the abuse by being silent.

    you and your side kick non dom anon should get a blog, rather than spam Craigs, in order to divert, a person you confess, profusely, to know and support.

    In my view you are hard sodden a…holes who don’t give a flying fuck about Craig. You write to divert, you denigrate new posters and act the diminutives you really are, sad little eejits.

  • OldMark

    ‘It wasn’t invented when you were 15. Carlsberg Special, maybe?’

    The market leader in the 60s & 70s for all ages who wanted bang for their buck alcohol wise was surely Whitbread Gold Label-

    http://www.camra.org.uk/barley-wine

    in pubs the bottled version (around a third of a pint) was better value when spread over 2 pints than a double whisky- it also improved the flavour of most of the keg beers which were popular back then.

  • John Goss

    “In my view you are hard sodden a…holes who don’t give a flying fuck about Craig. You write to divert, you denigrate new posters and act the diminutives you really are, sad little eejits.”

    I endorse without the profanities.

    But Nevermind accept it. They are here and Craig tolerates them because everybody is entitled to his or her point of view.

  • glenn

    RD: “Surely there has to be some proven damage before you start interfering in what people do to their own or their children’s bodies…

    Interfering. Allowing a person to become mature enough to make a decision of what bits of him might be chopped off – that’s “interfering”.

    Children have no rights as people, and parents can do what they like to their bodies? Fascinating concept. I’m all for circumcision – or any other unnecessary mutilation of the body up to a point – if the person is an adult giving informed consent. It appears you disagree, and regard children as property, with no say over irreversible decisions perpetrated upon them.

    If some religious freak decided their children should all have their little fingers and toes surgically removed, that would be fine too?

  • glenn

    Habbabkuk: “(Whereas they say that circumcised males tend to be better cocksmen – not that I’d know, of course 🙂 ) “

    Oh come on. Who is likely to say something as weak as this, and why might they say it?

    I hope you’re enjoying your holiday, but watch out for the Sun – it can be a bit strong at this time of year.

  • KingOfWelshNoir

    Glenn, well said.

    A full account of the psychological reasons someone might claim circumcised men make ‘better cocksmen’ is contained in Aesop’s fable, The Fox that lost its Tail.

  • Resident Dissident

    “If some religious freak decided their children should all have their little fingers and toes surgically removed, that would be fine too?!

    No – that would clearly be proven damage. And I never said parents can do what they want to childrens bodies. Please read what I actually said rather than making wild assumptions.

  • nevermind

    John Goss, I’m well aware of the dichotomy this acceptance creates and I’m sorry that my profanities, in a world lead by psychopathic liars and ruthless warmongers doing the most obscene things, should have rattled your cage.

  • Clark

    Resident Dissident, OK, what about ear-lobes? Those can be cut off with no further harm, though I suppose they’re visible so it could lead to prejudicial reactions from strangers (though I suppose such reactions could be legislated against). Does this mean that for parentally-enforced permanent body modification to be acceptable, it’d have to be some part near the genitals? Feet are generally in socks; how about permanent scarring to the feet? It could be done under anesthetic. Should there be some limit upon number or extent of modifications?

  • OldMark

    Re the circumcision debate none of the contributions so far have mentioned the fact that the 2 religions which require it of males- Judaism & Islam, were founded in arid regions where sandstorms are not unknown. After such events, the sand gets literally everywhere. Clearly the removal of the foreskin is a prophylactic against penile discomfort and irritation which may arise after sandstorm events, so it isn’t surprising that the elders of both religions decided to rule in favour of the procedure.

  • glenn

    RD: ok, so you demand the burden of proven damage (to who’s satisfaction?) must be met, before you’ll allow that perpetrating some unnecessary mutilation on a child is wrong.

    You might type “circumcision disasters” into a search engine, and find there’s some definite damage that can occur – as will be in case in all types of surgical procedure.

    Here’s the first one in many results:

    http://www.senslip.com/circumcision-disasters.html

    Try telling the owner of a botched circumcision job that it was for the best. An Iraqi friend had his son “done” as an infant, it became infected and there were some difficulties. I asked him at the time whether he’d obtained informed consent from the infant boy.

    Somehow I doubt that he did. But that’s not an issue as far as you’re concerned, and the occasional casualty is a price worth paying.

    KoWN: Thanks – I really must read Aesop’s fables in their entirety sometime.

  • Dave Hansell

    “Galloway”?

    Seriously?

    The blokes an establishment ringer. A complete fraud.

    “Wrong on both counts.”

    It really is gratifying to see the principles of The Enlightenment put into practice. Where conclusions are substantiated with empirical and hard evidence rather than be stated as such because the writer thinks this is so therefore by definition it must be so.

    Well done that man. You must be really proud. I know everyone else is, because I’ve just said it and ergo it must be so.

    To paraphrase – Genital mutilation of young boys is not particularly repugnent.

    “Care to tell us why”? Hab.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

    Dave Hansell

    “To paraphrase – Genital mutilation of young boys is not particularly repugnent.

    “Care to tell us why?”

    ______________________

    A tell-tale sign of belonging to the Egregiousness of Excellences is reversing the burden of proof so to speak..

    Since it was Daniel who first said that male circumcision was repugnant, it is for him to say why (if requested and possibly even if not).

  • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

    “Doesn’t the reduction in sexual pleasure resulting from circumcision”

    ________________________

    I hope the Transatlantic Sage is not generalising from the particular (aka his personal experience).

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Perhaps one of the religious authorities on here could help me with the following. There is, I believe, “scriptural” authority for the circumcision of Jewish male babies. Is there anything in the Koran about FGM or is it something which has developed through custom and practice an perhaps related to the (subordinate) position of women under Islam?

  • Dave Hansell

    Consistent to a fault with the misinterpretations Hab.

    You of all people should know what people are like. They jump to their own conclusions in the absence of anything more concrete.

    If you wish to spurn the opportunity which was offered to stop people jumping to conclusions by putting and defending your apparrant position that is entirely your call.

    Sometimes there is just no helping some people.

  • Daniel

    “The bloke’s [Galloway] an establishment ringer. A complete fraud.”

    On what basis?

  • Resident Dissident

    Glenn/Clark

    I have said we should rule out legislation against circumcision if it can be proven that it results in damage to children – but that should really be the test rather than idiots trying to prove ridiculous political and religious points. There has to be some threshold where the State steps in and takes over from parents who always have the prime responsibility for their children. Yes parents can do all sorts of mental and physical damage to their kids – but there has to be some threshold where the State stays out of things and leaves the parents to get on with things unless you really want some kind of Brave New World.

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