47 thoughts on “British Values

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  • Mary

    I didna listen. Cannot abide his strangulated voice. No doubt the commentariat, having moved on from the SU24, will enlarge upon Gideon’s pronouncements at length.

  • Uzbek in the UK

    “Imagine there’s no countries…”

    Unfortunately current state of world affairs contradict this great imaginary world many MWF wish to live in. Getting rid of nuclear deterrent capabilities in times when some others (outside of EU) increase their military budgets by 2-5 times in the last 4 years is little bit of pink glasses attitude.

  • tris

    But Trident allows him and his friends to mix with the top table lot.

    Building affordable housing for oinks wouldn’t have any appreciable effect on Osborne, his friends or family.

    Why would he bother?

  • glenn_uk

    I love the way cuts to the NHS and welfare budgets are announced on the BBC as “savings”, while all spending is “investment”. Investment and savings – what’s not to love?

  • eddie-g

    The first challenge here is trusting Osborne and his maths.

    Doubling of the housing budget from 1bn to 2bn annually – for five years – I make that an extra 5bn.

    That 5bn apparently gets you 400,000 additional new homes. Which means in Osborne’s Britain, the marginal cost of a new home is 12.5mm. (if he meant another 400,000 homes each year, that amounts to a modest marginal cost of 2.5mm.)

    So as usual, either Osborne’s maths is garbage, or Osborne’s Britain is a dystopian plutocracy. Perhaps both.

  • AAMVN

    Houses/homes could be built very economically if only there was the political will. All the main parties make noises about a housing crisis but none want to cause a drop in house prices and take the fallout.

    This is yet another disaster that can be laid at Thatcher’s door. Trident is another. The low wage low skill economy a third. There are many more.

    175BN would transform Britain if invested in infrastructure, jobs, housing and the NHS.

    As for all those who would lose their jobs it’d by cheaper to retire them early on a pension = 50% of their current salary – or a lump sum payment. Assuming 15000 jobs [a high estimate IMO] at 1 million pounds each [ a high estimate of the cost per of compensating them] = 1.5BN. Chickenfeed if there is 175BN to be saved.

    There will be a Herculean effort to stifle all discussion of Trident’s replacement that might actually involve not replacing it with a useless, and highly dangerous, white elephant.

  • Mary

    All fine apart from the Opik contribution.
    https://www.rt.com/shows/going-underground/323420-paris-isis-daesh-uk/

    Afshin Rattansi goes underground with John Pilger. Award winning journalist and author, John Pilger talks to us about how Washington, London and Paris gave birth to ISIS-Daesh. Plus we examine the media’s role in spreading disinformation ahead of a vote in Parliament for UK bombing of Syria. Afshin looks at the Autumn Statement and why in a time of high alert we are cutting the police force and buying drones. Also we look at which companies are benefitting from the budget. Plus Afshin is joined once again by former MP and broadcaster, Lembit Opik, to look at the weeks news from a cyber sinking feeling over Trident to budget boosts for the BBC.

    I love him and admire him greatly. He speaks for me.

  • fedup

    increase their military budgets by 2-5 times in the last 4 years is little bit of pink glasses attitude.

    UIUK cease and desist mutilating the English language at once before one has been compelled to take out an injunction on you in keeping you away from a UK format keyboard!!

    It is “ROSE TINTED GLASSES”!!!!!

    In line with mutilation of a perfectly serviceable language there is a weird statistics galore 2 to five times of ten pence is 20 to fifty pence and still does not buy much in the way of modern weapons system!!! Who are you referring to, and how much is their budget and in comparison to US or UK or France.

    Just because you want to claim asylum to stay here does not mean that hundreds and thousands of families have to forego having a shelter over their head. Trident is not a weapon systems it is a sweetener and bribe payment for subsidising the crazy sums of money US is allocating to killing industry!

  • Republicofscotland

    It looks like Trident will be renewed, we can’t in all honesty even use them, we’d be charged with crimes against humanity, no, possessing Trident is all about the old empirical mindset of projecting power, how can one of the Permanent Members of the Security Council, not, have nukes.

    The question asked is, how much is too much when it comes to Trident the answer, there is no upper limit, these are the kind of mad egotistical men that the British public voted into power.

    It is however very disappointing that the majority of Labour MP’s, abstained on the Trident vote yesterday, most didnt even bother to show for the debate including life long CND member Jeremy Corbyn along with Ian Murray.

    George Osborne today smiled, as he announced that Britain would spent 2% on defence, when infact very few of NATO’s members come anywhere near the 2% spend recommendation.

    Osborne had to be cajouled by the House of Lords, (shameful that a decadent unelected undemocratic body had to do that) or rather shaken to waken him to the fact he’d have a very short career in politics if he cut Tax Credits, he’d be despised even more than Thatcher if he carried out the shameful act.

    Osborne must truly be the worst Chancer of the Exchequer in living memory and then some. He’s very good at filling his neocon buddies pockets, whilst turning a blind eye their corporate tax dodging to the tune of billions of pounds.

    Yet when Osborne comes under pressure he regularly quotes the OBR, which his Treasury department has in its pocket.

    A prime example of this came today when Osborne used projection figures from his compliant OBR to say Scotland would’ve been bankrupt today if it has said yes to independence.

    You won’t hear Osborne mention this.

    As of Q1 2015 UK government debt amounted to £1.56 trillion, or 81.58% of total GDP, at which time the annual cost of servicing (paying the interest) the public debt amounted to around £43bn (which is roughly 3% of GDP or 8% of UK government tax income).

    On 23 February 2013 Moody’s downgraded UK credit rating from Aaa to Aa1.

  • fedup

    I think it doesn’t unfortunately give an automatic UN security council seat, less vulnerable to spider-security attacks tho’

    It is a lot more useful although it comes under the classification of chemical weapons, nonetheless affordable and seems to have a relatively long shelf life!!!!

    ============

    Craig it will be a good idea to explore what are “our values” and go on record with these, won’t you agree? As it seems along with our “unwritten constitution” that evidently itself is a constitution things can get a bit fuzzy and dependent on the occasion can be changed as per requirements and exigencies facing our dear leaders and great leaders*

    *(whom will not let go of the throne and have used super glue to remain attached to the said throne, unlike the other Monarchs in Europe whom have stepped aside to let the youngster have a go at wearing uniforms and awarding themselves medals and stuff).

  • giyane

    In Stoke on Trent a line of 2 story houses were gutted and re-furbished at a cost of £180 K each. They are actually selling at £80 K. Sloshing money around the housing market benefits builders but it doesn’t mean people on low incomes can buy anything. If private individuals had bought them and taken a grant of £20 K per house then £80 K per house would have been saved from the slosh fund for big builders and used for buying cheap houses and putting them into good condition.

    Anyone with a drop of sense could have told you in 2008 that the way out of the recession was to invest in grants to improve our appalling old housing. As always Tory nihilistic thinking scratches the backs of the rich and destroys the chances of the many.

    Cameron has been put in power because Miliband started to criticise Israel. he brings with him the failed policies of Mrs Thatcher, the failed policies of Tony Blair and the failed policies of the failed LibDems who brought I tuition fees for power. By the time Jeremy Corbyn gets a chance to get into power, it will be impossible to bring this country back to solvency because only Tory scum will have been to university.

    British values means opening your mind to the outside world, not bombing it and sponsoring terror. Trading with other countries on fair terms. Using thrift to keep cost down, not sploshing money around for the already rich to devour.

  • giyane

    RoS

    I thought Russia’s cruise missiles launched on Syria had put paid to any UK hopes of defending ourselves from hostile attacks by air.

  • fred

    “That throws a rather lurid light on what could be done with the £175 billion admitted cost of Trident, if we lived in a society with less crazed values.”

    Defence spending would be around 2% of GDP with or without Trident.

    I’d rather they spend the money on weapons they aren’t going to use.

  • Republicofscotland

    RoS

    “I thought Russia’s cruise missiles launched on Syria had put paid to any UK hopes of defending ourselves from hostile attacks by air.”

    _________

    Giyane not quite sure why you addressed me with the above comment but I’ll try and answer anyway.

    I think Russia’s ICBM’s could reach the UK, but I find the thought of Ryssia attacking us directly very small indeed.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_ballistic_missile

  • Habbabkuk ( combat cant))

    Craig

    Did you find anything to be pleased about in the Chancellor’s statement?

  • Habbabkuk ( drones away!)

    Allow me to repeat a little bit of context I was obliged to furnish a couple of threads ago in response to one of Mary’s usual rants.

    It was pointed pout by Mary that the PM intends £185 billion to be spent on defence over 10 years. That is £18,5 billion every year.

    I pointed out that the UK’s annual spend on health (mainly OUR NHS) and social security is around £130 billion and £110 billion respectively.

    People might care to reflect on those figures a little before going into little orgasms of rage about defence spending in general and nuclear weapons spending in particular.

  • Habbabkuk ( drones away!)

    “George Osborne claims that by doubling the housing budget to £2billion per year, 400,000 new homes can be built over the next five years.”
    ___________________-

    The way this has been presented by our host gives the impression – deliberately or inadvertently – that the govt is going to put £2 billion on the table every year and that those £2 billion will be spent on building houses.

    I very much doubt if that is what the Chancellor meant, much less said.

    I wonder if our host – or anyone else for that matter* – would like to present this matter rather more accurately?

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    * if they can bear to tear themselves away from Trident for a few minutes, that is.

  • Habbabkuk ( drones away!)

    “Did you find anything to be pleased about in the Chancellor’s statement?”
    ____________________

    Of course, others may answer if they wish. 🙂

  • Habbabkuk ( drones away!)

    Giyane

    “…because only Tory scum will have been to university.”

    ___________________

    I believe you went to a private school and then to Oxford (not the cheapest of universities).

    Did you go on scholarships or did your parents pay?

    If the latter, wouldn’t that make you a sort of pre-Tory scum (or, if you prefer, a Tory pre-scum)?

  • fred

    “Thr NATO 2% spend it utter nonsense and Osborne knows it. Very few countries reach that mark.”

    Britain’s defence spending has historically been above 2% in peacetime, this year’s spending is about as low as it has been in over a hundred years.

    Without Trident we would have to spend a lot more on conventional weapons for the same level of security.

  • Republicofscotland

    “It was pointed pout by Mary that the PM intends £185 billion to be spent on defence over 10 years. That is £18,5 billion every year.

    I pointed out that the UK’s annual spend on health (mainly OUR NHS) and social security is around £130 billion and £110 billion respectively.”

    ______________

    Yes but the NHS is a useful and much loved institution, and deserves every penny it receives. It is one of the flag ship institutions set up by a British government, possibly based on the Highlands and Islands Medical Service something we can still be proud of.

    Defence, on the otherhand has to be increased, why? Well the same institution that had the foresight to set up the NHS, also exudes war like tendencies to a fault. Westminster has been for decades now swanning around the globe causing untold mayhem, in the name of the empire.

    Westminster and its negative regressive warmongering policies often combined with USA’s (just as bad if not worse) has created so many enemies around the world that military spending is high on the agenda.

  • Techno

    400,000 houses? With net immigration running at 330,000 a year, that will only cover two years immigration, without including the baby boom that is going on as well.

    Giyane: “As always Tory nihilistic thinking scratches the backs of the rich and destroys the chances of the many.”

    I didn’t see Labour doing anything about it when they were in power, in fact most of the house price madness took place during their 13 years in power, 1997 to 2010, particularly the boom in “Buy to Let”.

  • Habbabkuk ( drones away!)

    RiSy

    “I pointed out that the UK’s annual spend on health (mainly OUR NHS) and social security is around £130 billion and £110 billion respectively.”

    ______________

    Yes but the NHS is a useful and much loved institution, and deserves every penny it receives.”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That’s pretty feeble, isn’t it. Defence has its uses as well (as Britain found out just in time in 1939/40) and as for “deserving”, well, that’s an un-orvabke statement especially if the flio side of it is that something else is less deserving.

    Gamma minus, I’m afraid.

  • Republicofscotland

    “Britain’s defence spending has historically been above 2% in peacetime, this year’s spending is about as low as it has been in over a hundred years.

    Without Trident we would have to spend a lot more on conventional weapons for the same level of security.”

    ——————

    No need to tell me Fred I posted the figures when you see more than half haven’t reached the figure of 2% ever, the you realise it’s all BS.

    Trident doesn’t protect us Fred from a terrorist attack or any other attack for that matter, it’s only a deterrent, against a nuclear attack which is very unlikely.

    China, Iran, North Korea or any other country that the media and government tell you they’ll launch, because they’re mad men is propaganda BS.

    As mad as you want the ayatollahs or Kim Jong-un’s of this world to be they’re not that mad, they know pushing the big red button would be the last thing they’d do.

    No a conventional fighting force is the way forward, renewing Trident is a prerequisite for Westminster to line the pockets of US part manufactures.

  • Republicofscotland

    “That’s pretty feeble, isn’t it. Defence has its uses as well (as Britain found out just in time in 1939/40) and as for “deserving”, well, that’s an un-orvabke statement especially if the flio side of it is that something else is less deserving.

    Gamma minus, I’m afraid”

    —————-

    Oh I don’t know David Cameron has often professed that NATO has our back. Recently the imaginary Russian sub story arose again and Dave the Rave, proclaimed from the finials of St Stephen’s Tower, (now droopy chops tower) that French subs and nimrods would cover us, until we had our own.

    If that’s the case and the self proclaimed world police aka NATO, are covering each others backs then I see no reason to spend megabucks on defence.

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