I think you can measure the death of democracy by the sheer audacity of the propaganda that government can get away with. Michael Fallon today on the Marr programme churned out the “70,000 moderate rebels” lie with a smooth bland face, and mentioned only the Free Syrian Army when pressed on who they were exactly. This is dishonesty on an epic scale.
But the really breathtaking one was to follow. Fallon claimed that the UK had killed hundreds of ISIL militants by bombing in Iraq and caused not one single civilian casualty. This risible claim had appeared in the Daily Mail last week, which is to be expected. But that a government minister can state such an absolutely ludicrous lie before a major BBC journalist without being seriously pushed on the matter, really does say a great deal about what kind of “democracy” the UK now is.
As does the fact that a substantial number of MPs of the official “opposition” have spent the weekend actively colluding with government ministers to forward the government’s militarist agenda.
I am proud to say that Scotland seems largely immune from the prevalent jingoism. The idea that bombing Raqqa will prevent terrorist attacks in Europe is plainly so nonsensical, that it is hard to know whether people like Fallon have actually managed to convince themselves of it or not. What this all will do, of course, is reinforce the military/security state that the UK has become.
I have no doubt that the Iraq War was one factor in making the people of Scotland realise that the UK is not an entity that matches their aspirations for the way a state should behave. Splitting the UK is a process. This incomprehensible Westminster bloodlust for bombing will drive the division wider. As will the whole ambience of the Etonian government and the peculiar social behaviour of its inner group, as even our coy media is hinting at in its coverage of the Shapps/Clarke group.
I can sense Independence coming close with every new morning.
But that a government minister can state such an absolutely ludicrous lie before a major BBC journalist without being seriously pushed on the matter, really does say a great deal about what kind of “democracy” the UK now is.
Sadly Andrew Marr has proven time after time to be a pet journalist of the British establishment. Apparently he even held a book launch at Number 10 Downing Street!
You will see those names of the vested interests in war on this list dated 9 November 2015
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/475540/daos_approved_orgs.pdf
14 pages… Company/address/DAOS Approval No/Scope of Approval/Issue status/ etc
DAOS* Approved Organizations
Military Aviation Authority
*Design Approved Organisation Scheme
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/design-approved-organization-scheme-daos
The UK has its share of warmongers but these two Americans take the biscuit The two amigos McCain and Graham here’s a sample.
Defense One: How are you planning on getting the Arab countries to put up 90 percent of the ground forces you’re calling for if we can’t even get them to put up in the air coalition?
Graham: Well, they’re not —
McCain: — If Bashar Assad is also the target, that’s the key to it … they fear Bashar al-Assad, who is backed by the Iranians, as much as they do ISIS.
Defense One: Sen. Graham, so if we promise them they can also target Assad, they’ll get in?
McCain: We would also target Assad. Assad right now is killing the people we armed and trained and equipped.
Graham: I can only tell you what they tell us. I’m not joking. The king of Saudi Arabia’s chief advisor said, ‘You can have our army.’ The emir of Qatar says, ‘I’ll pay for the war.’ They want to do two things: they want to stop ISIL before they come in and take their countries over or disrupt their way of life, and they also want to make sure Damascus doesn’t fall into the hands of the Iranians. I’m down for both.
Defense One: But am I correctly understand that you’re calling for the U.S. committing U.S. military force against Assad as well?
Graham: Eventually.http://www.defenseone.com/politics/2015/11/campaign-trail-new-hampshire-two-amigos-lindsey-graham-and-john-mccain/124019/?oref=d-river
I hope you got your moon specs back Phil.
You are amazing, Phil.
What are you smoking?
With the anti-democratic policies of the west since the false flag event of 9/11 it looks like Hitler will win the war about eighty years after he died. He won the battle of ideas; it is just the few persisting freedoms he needs to demolish.
Some mackerel and a salmon fillet ATM. You’re all to quick to discount anything politicians say yet you are willing to believe freelance journalists. HA MUGS!!!!!!
Sorry am I thick or what, we had Obama and McCain waving $500 MILLION in the air in nearby Turkey and could not attract more than 50 moderates from Syria. And we have had Cameron instead telling Parliament there are about 70,000 moderates ?! Hearing the spin on the Beeb you could be forgiven for thinking Fallon has met all their wives too !!
This ability to lie brazenly to millions can only come from Satan. Anybody who votes for what is obviously a cunning ploy to attack assad,after the original al-ghouta false flag failure, will be voting for Satan, including AoC Wellby. It appears bibi came to London to inject some urgency into this Oded-Yinon business?!
Spot on, Mick McNulty. I have been trying to get into Indy Comments tonight. Put in my details-nothing. Apparently locked out. Democracy in action, no doubt.
“It appears bibi came to London to inject some urgency into this Oded-Yinon business”
That’s mainly why Erdogan’s in US/Israeli bad books.
His plans for greater Turkey in northern Syria, pincering and neutering Kurdish dreams, doesn’t quite fit with Oded Yinon.
And, given recent events, were he to meet with an unfortunacy, who’d ya blame.
Clever, eh.
These people are going to be put on trial…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abel1iDVroE
@Harry Law, thanks for catching Graham and McCain red-handed breaking 59 Stat. 1544 Article 6(a), a federal crime with no statute of limitations in universal jurisdiction. Clearly it will take a war to shit these domestic enemies out and make them pay. Syria probably won’t do the trick, but another war is sure to come along under the CIA regime. The only question is, how badly will the US need to be beaten before it gives up the war criminals and aggressors in its command structure? Pretty badly, I’m afraid.
Well, let’s get it over with.
Fallon knows that his career will be entirely unaffected by his lies. The lies initially came from the PM, and the PM will just talk some nonsense about ‘national security’ and ‘official advice’ if he’s ever called on his imaginary moderate army; Fallon is merely quoting approvingly. He’ll probably get a promotion, just like Jeremy Hunt.
Good to see Corbyn on the front foot here. I personally don’t have an issue with a conscience vote, as military action isn’t really a left-right, party issue. But part of me would like to see Jezza lay down the law here, and challenge his shadow cabinet to resign. Remember when Bliar did the same? Several people had to resign on principle, after all. There is some talk that Jezza can’t enforce a 3-line whip, as it’s a cabinet decision. I’m somewhat sceptical about this rule, do they take a show of hands in cabinet? I’d bet strongly that no such thing occurred under Blair, and that Blair just routinely enforced 3-line whip, without discussing the matter in cabinet. Still, let’s assume he can’t enforce the 3-line whip, he’s still actually doing some opposing, never would have happened under the 3-stooges.
I note also that the odious Chukka has come out strongly for military action, even before seeing the ‘details’ of Cameron’s plan. This clever fool hopes to one day lead the country, what a sorry day that would be.
In the interests of care for those of us who are a bit slow at cottoning on in this wonderful world of digital interaction, please can I ask for either Phil and Philw to adopt a different name. It’s confoosin’
Rob G
How many arrests yesterday?
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/11/cameron-overreaches-with-70000-claim-nobody-believes/#comment-564253
” My point is Islam hasn’t impinged on our way of life over the centuries ”
So by your reckoning they won’t in the years to come. Bless.
Actually it wasn’t for want of trying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests
See also Battle of Vienna, 1683.
” As for Muslims fighting amongst themselves, it cannot be helped ”
So you’re quite happy for them to carry on slaughtering each other? It doesn’t bother you at all?
Netanyahu is opening up in the UAE where there are no diplomatic relations between the two. Mr Pushy sees some commercial opportunity and is determined not to be left out.
Israel to open ‘permanent mission’ in UAE
Nov 28, 2015
A view of the headquarters of Abu Dhabi-based International Renewable Energy Association Agency (IRENA), in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) (file photo)
Israel is set to open a “permanent mission” in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) despite the ostensible, traditional Arab-Israeli conflict.
On Friday, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Emmanuel Nahshon said Tel Aviv will “soon” open the mission in Abu Dhabi, which is to operate as part of the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) based in the Arab city, the Associated Press reported.
The development comes even as the UAE apparently does not recognizes Israel or have diplomatic relations with it.
IRENA, which has 144 members, has tried to justify the move by saying it is sanctioned by its charter, which permits its members, including Israel, to represent themselves in the Emirati capital.
It has also claimed, “The work of member missions is confined to engagement with the agency… and bears no implication on the relation between the member of IRENA and the host country.”
An Israeli delegation visited Abu Dhabi last week and “inquired into office space” at the agency’s headquarters at Masdar City outside Abdu Dhabi, said Timothy Hurst, a spokesman for the agency.
Among Arab nations, only Egypt and Jordan host diplomatic Israeli missions.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/28/439437/UAE-Israel-Abu-Dhabi-International-Renewable-Energy-Agency-Netanyahu
RobG@9;11 Fallon told Andrew Marr that General Idriss was leading the Free Syrian Army in the North. General Idriss was sacked by the FSA in early 2014. http://12160.info/photo/john-mccain-with-general-salim-idris-former-head-of-the-free Does Fallon know what he is talking about?
Well, clearly not.
Why Be Ordinary?
29 Nov, 2015 – 9:31 pm
Rob G
“How many arrests yesterday?”
LOL WBO!
” I am proud to say that Scotland seems largely immune from the prevalent jingoism. The idea that bombing Raqqa will prevent terrorist attacks in Europe is plainly so nonsensical, that it is hard to know whether people like Fallon have actually managed to convince themselves of it or not. What this all will do, of course, is reinforce the military/security state that the UK has become.”
well said Craig.
Phil
We Had a Terrorist Attack – in Glasgow – if you recall… Did we rush off and Bomb Children 2 days later.
Re independce
Good luck to the Campers…Can’t be too far from Craig’s Pop doon and say hullo –
“Some are permanent,” said Williams. “I’m a carer, so I’m going two days on two days off, some are doing weekdays, some will be here for weekends. There will always be someone here and as it grows there will be more people to rotate and have a bigger presence at different times.”
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/camp-holyrood#.cbRdlboa8
The very good Conflicts Forum has the real reason for the rise of the Caliphate,
recently declassified 2012 US Defence Intelligence Agency report on the rise of ISIS in Syria, had explicitly warned of the possibility of “an Islamic State” being declared “through a union with other terrorist organisations in Iraq and Syria”, there was almost silence in the mainstream media. No one wanted to touch the ‘live wire’ of possible US collusion with Caliphate forces.
But it was clear enough what the American General was saying: the jihadification of the Syrian conflict had been a ‘wilful’ policy decision, and that since Al-Qaida and the ISIS embryo were the only movements capable of establishing such a Caliphate across Syria and Iraq, then it plainly followed that the US Administration, and its allies, tacitly accepted this outcome, in the interests of weakening, or of overthrowing, the Syrian state.http://www.conflictsforum.org/2015/obama-and-the-legacy-of-the-dark-side/
Not bombing children but don’t let facts get in the way of your argument………
An interesting comment by monteverdi1610 on a Guardian article today
http://12160.info/photo/john-mccain-with-general-salim-idris-former-head-of-the-free
Michael Fallon the Defence Secretary when asked on Andrew Marr’s BBC show this morning about those ‘ moderate rebels ‘ referred to one General Idris who he claimed was a Free Syrian Army Commander in the North . Those of us with a keen interest in middle eastern affairs know he was sacked from the FSA in 2014 and is believed to have de-camped to ISIS .
[ see above ]
I can’t believe a well -briefed Defence Secretary would not be aware of this and conclude he simply resorted to lying to the British Public .
@Why be ordinary?
29 Nov, 2015 – 9:31 pm
Yes, we all live in a pseudo paradise that people like you are paid to promote.
Neo-liberalism: endless conflict and war and terrorism; and in 2008, as a direct result of neo-con policies, the world economy was trashed by a bunch of spivs who should have been put in jail; but they weren’t put in jail (except in Iceland), and were bailed-out with eye-watering amounts of tax payer’s money.
These vermin were allowed to get away with it, and now think that they rule the world.
These vermin have another think coming, and will be held to account for their crimes.
All wars are fuelled by lies. The more stupid the general population the more inane the lies.
Here we have Michael Morell (former Deputy Director of the CIA) explaining that the US did not seek to degrade ISIS oil assets out of a fear of causing environmental damage
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-29/former-cia-deputy-director-gives-stunning-reason-why-obama-has-not-attacked-isis-oil
This kind of stuff tells you all you need to know regarding the contempt in which the general population is held.
Whilst I wouldn’t normally approve of such behavior – in times like these – you have got to go with what you’ve got.
Jeremy Corbyn might save us yet.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12023823/Jeremy-Corbyn-on-verge-of-whipping-MPs-to-block-Syrian-air-strikes.html
“Jeremy Corbyn on verge of whipping MPs to block Syrian air strikes
Three senior allies of the Labour leader tell The Telegraph he is ready to order MPs to oppose bombing despite threat of resignations”
He’s the boss. Democratically elected by a huge majority.
“If you don’t do what you are told – you will be sacked.”
Try getting a job in the real world Ex-MP.
Tony
Not bombing children but don’t let facts get in the way of your argument………
EVEN IF.. – i Doubt it – But FACT is, This would only be possible for a very short time…………….BUT STILL ILLEGAL. Fact
Ruth, not well briefed?
Would it be more likely that there are other age related reasons for Fallon’s loss of memory on this straight fact?
Has he been chosen to do the blundering blustering buffoon who goes for it heads down?
Fallon vs. 70.000 unicorns, head on…..
That Tele article is rather interesting. They actually have a poll asking ‘Should Corbyn Resign?”, which is sort of quite funny. I’ve no idea why Corbyn should even consider resigning, he’s doing a pretty good job in the circumstances.
“Speaking to the BBC, Lord Falconer, the shadow justice secretary who supports air strikes, appeared to suggest that resignations will only be “avoided” if MPs are offered a free vote.”
Old Lordy Falconer can, with the greatest respect, fuck off back to the House of Lords and shut up for eternity. Shouldn’t even be in the shadow cabinet, the troughing nobody. It appears Jezza is ‘bringing it’, and will force the issue with a 3-line whip. Brave, as they would say in Yes Minister. Clearly the power struggle is on in earnest, and one which Jezza knows fine well he may lose. May as well lose over principle, I guess. If they force Jezza out, UKIP will get more votes than Labour.