Wow 205

I think you can measure the death of democracy by the sheer audacity of the propaganda that government can get away with. Michael Fallon today on the Marr programme churned out the “70,000 moderate rebels” lie with a smooth bland face, and mentioned only the Free Syrian Army when pressed on who they were exactly. This is dishonesty on an epic scale.

But the really breathtaking one was to follow. Fallon claimed that the UK had killed hundreds of ISIL militants by bombing in Iraq and caused not one single civilian casualty. This risible claim had appeared in the Daily Mail last week, which is to be expected. But that a government minister can state such an absolutely ludicrous lie before a major BBC journalist without being seriously pushed on the matter, really does say a great deal about what kind of “democracy” the UK now is.

As does the fact that a substantial number of MPs of the official “opposition” have spent the weekend actively colluding with government ministers to forward the government’s militarist agenda.

I am proud to say that Scotland seems largely immune from the prevalent jingoism. The idea that bombing Raqqa will prevent terrorist attacks in Europe is plainly so nonsensical, that it is hard to know whether people like Fallon have actually managed to convince themselves of it or not. What this all will do, of course, is reinforce the military/security state that the UK has become.

I have no doubt that the Iraq War was one factor in making the people of Scotland realise that the UK is not an entity that matches their aspirations for the way a state should behave. Splitting the UK is a process. This incomprehensible Westminster bloodlust for bombing will drive the division wider. As will the whole ambience of the Etonian government and the peculiar social behaviour of its inner group, as even our coy media is hinting at in its coverage of the Shapps/Clarke group.

I can sense Independence coming close with every new morning.

205 thoughts on “Wow

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  • Suhayl Saadi

    Shocking, yet very much to be expected.

    Those “70,000” lovely moderate troops can be deployed within 45 minutes, no doubt.

    Perhaps they have included lollipop ladies and hospital cleaners in the total – after all, they wear uniforms and use their hands, don’t they?

    I believe that ‘we’ will be attacking Damascus soon.

  • TonyF12

    Well said, Craig.

    The only well argued material of integrity in the Marr show came from Jeremy Corbyn. It is becoming increasing obvious how up to its neck NATO is in the ISIL “Crisis”. It is a fabrication uniquely to enable regime change in Syria. None of the strategists cares a monkey’s about civilians whether in Damascus or Paris – it is all about getting rid of Assad with no other agenda. For Turkey it is also a nice little earner supplying arms, selling oil, and some cover to keep beating up on the Kurds.

    Cameron and May are always banging on about the evils of radicalisation. What better examples of ‘radicalisation’ than the SUN newspaper and FOX NEWS on tv? We are bombarded daily with extreme misrepresentation of the truth to achieve an objective to do mindless harm to others.

    Fallon comes over as a disingenuous fool and should know better. Close your eyes and remember the rhetoric which authorised our illegal interventions in Iraq and Libya.

  • Rose

    Craig – you articulate exactly what I feel about the whole sorry mess and the abysmal depths of what passes for public discourse. And I am entirely sympathetic to what decent Scots must feel about wanting to have no more of what is laughingly referred to as government in this country. The hypocrisy and deceit you have revealed in your latest posts are are staggering.

    But what about the rest of us? We can’t all move to Scotland and apart from signing petitions, attending rallies and trying to raise awareness within our our own little circles, all we can do it seems is to wring our hands and weep.

    We need voices like yours to speak for us all.

  • Tom Welsh

    It was a “moderate” rebel who appeared on Youtube cutting out and eating the heart of one of his dead enemies (presumably a Syrian soldier who had been trying to defend his country). It was also a group of “moderate” rebels who put up a barrage of machine-gun fire at the helpless Russian pilot dangling from his parachute, apparently killing him in the air – a war crime.

    The only answer to such rabid nonsense is the suggestion made by a Russian source that the Russian armed forces will respect the status of the “moderate” rebels by using only their moderate weapons on them.

  • Mary

    Lord Byron.

    “As falls the dew on quenchless sands, blood only serves to wash ambition’s hands.”


    “The king-times are fast finishing. There will be blood shed like water, and tears like mist; but the peoples will conquer in the end. I shall not live to see it, but I foresee it.”

  • Phil

    Do you proof that UK air strikes have killed civilians in Iraq? Or are you just making things up to suit your argument???

  • Porkfright

    Quite disgusting. This is the Fallon whose picture and message appeared in my email inbox somehow to tell me that Corbyn was a serious danger to everything British. I do not watch Despicable Marr on any account-but will try getting it on catch-up after reading this.

  • Porkfright

    Phil-It is surely difficult if not impossible to believe that UK bombing of ISIL in Iraq has not caused one civilian death. Unless of course special “Magic Bombs” had been used, which disappear into thin air on detecting a civilian when they are at an altitude of ten feet from target. Perhaps Mr. Fallon would tell us if this is the case.

  • Mary

    A quick search would have answered your question Phil.


    Syria air strikes: ‘At least five children killed’ in Raqqa school as …The Independent-26 Nov 2015
    At least five children have been killed in an air strike on a school in Isis’ Syrian stronghold of Raqqa, activists report.

    It was said this morning that ISIL are holding hostages in Raqqa.

    An ancient city established in the 1st century on the banks of the mighty Euphrates, once beautiful, now rubble.

  • Phil

    This isn’t WW2 carpet bombing where you drop thousands of bombs remotely near a target in the hope one might get close. These are precise pieces of equipment, laser guided or GPS aided. To suggest that these must have missed the target at some point is simply wrong IMO.

  • Phil

    But Fallon said British air strikes had not killed any Civilians, not coalition. You quoted Raqqa, we cant bomb in syria yet……

  • TonyF12

    “As a question, what would be your solution to Syria and how would you stop ISIS???”

    How often do we hear this question as a repost to someone who thinks bombing Syria is a bad idea? The first burden is on those proposing bombing to convince us their logic makes sense.

    For a start we should stop pretending NATO and its allies have any primary interest in neutralising ISIL when we enable, fund and arm ISIL and other loathsome rebel groups. As far as NATO is concerned ISIL satisfies a strategic need in the cause of enabling the removal of Assad. Stories like the atrocity in Paris radicalise the public into sanctioning bombing. If Paris isn’t enough, sure enough there will be another atrocity somewhere in Europe probably. If we really wanted to shut ISIL down we would hit its funding, its arms supplies, its international support structure and its communications. We do not, and we choose to do nothing but to seek justification to bomb Syria. Instead our politicians keep up the neo-WMD Blairite argument that bombing Syria into the Stone Age will do the trick and … er … magically achieve regime change as an added benefit.

  • Phil

    Everything you’ve said is opinion, you have no evidence to back up what you’ve said. All i got from that is that you don’t like NATO and don’t like WMD.

  • Porkfright

    Of course it’s opinion, Phil. Whatever the truth is-we shall probably never know. We simply have to trust those in charge. After all-they don’t have any “Previous”, do they?

  • Phil

    I don’t think we should be scared of acting because of the past. Intervention in Iraq was a mistake, not intervening in Germany before WW2 was a mistake. The past can back both sides. It should be solely based on what the issue is now and what should be done now.

  • TonyF12

    I love the concept of NATO which was constructed to keep us safe from a rerun of the Second World War – and it used to do a very good job.

    What does an alliance defending the countries of the North Atlantic have to do with marching round the Middle East forcibly changing regimes and leaving chaos in its wake? Quick answer – nothing.

    What is Turkey doing in any North Atlantic alliance? It is some distance from any shores of the North Atlantic. The only purpose it serves is as a staging post for aggression in the region.

    My reference to WMD was a less than fond reminiscence of Tony Blair’s and Colin Powell’s theatrical fiasco of lies justifying regime change by force in Iraq.

    If you believe these observations are just opinion, then that is fine. Blair’s and Powell’s lies about Iraq were not presented as opinion, they were presented as incontrovertible facts when they both knew they were black lies. We invaded Iraq because we knew they had no WMD to fight back. We have not invaded Syria because we know they are well armed and able to put up a fight. History is simply repeating itself like a Hollywood sequel.

  • nevermind

    @Phil, NATO supporter who likes WMD’s, one presumes.

    Your argument is a tad naive, even a laser guided bomb which precludes setting up a laser at the target, will not be set up minutes before the target is chosen, but days before, by special forces involved in targeting and working on ‘information received’. They do not go back and check whether there are civilians around as the bombs fall.

    Laser guided bombing is done from great height, ideally in cloudless conditions.

    Fallon is a puppet of the right wingers and arms concerns who are driving this ‘recreational bombing’ and the fascist move to use ministers as ‘call boys and girls’ is just too dumm to be true. And in the voice of Neill Kinnock standing behind a podium….

    You could not make this up, grown up politicians, who all have families, friends and constituencies to protect, are running around Westminster like polecats in a wildfire, ringing up MP’s, cajoling and arm twisting them over the weekend to support their, hallo Mr. Fallon, INDISCRIMINATE bombing of innocent civilians and some immoderate terrorists….

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Phil, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that it is our allies who are arming, funding and supporting all the Jihadist groups in Syria and Iraq. The GCC is basically the main supporter. Our own special forces have been in surrounding countries training some of the groups. Turkey – NATO memebr – has been instrumental. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE…

    Unless we shut down all of this, ISIS and all the otehrs will continue.

    there does need to be a politcal and military soilution but those solutions would need to involve the GCC absoluetly ending any links with their paramilitary and military instrumnets. We are putting zero pressure on any of these state and para-state actors. And that is because they all serve our strategic interests.

    It’s not a case of ‘please don’t attack ISIS’, it is a case of:

    1) Attacking ISIS means first dealing with the GCC. Otherwise we will be entering, and contributing to, a quagmire, which is what ISIS et al would like to happen.

    2) There is considerable concern that – as with Libya and the supposed ‘no-fly zone’ – once we are in there, our agenda will change to destroying the regime and the infrastructure of Syrian state. In other words, there is concern that our leaders are lying to us about their true intentions. that has happened before, now, twice, over wars – Iraq and Libya. they already arelying to us about this mythical “70,000” ‘modertae’ troops – there is no evince for that figure. Perhaps you would do well to question it yourself. The onus ought not ot be on us to provide hard evince – the onus must be on those who want to take this country to war.

  • Loony

    ISIS is a creation of the US, and is supported by a number of states including Turkey. This is not opinion. It is fact.

    ISIS are dangerous and should be destroyed, and their creators and sponsors should be held to account. The latter will not happen, and to even suggest that it should marks one as a deranged fantasist.

    The real aim is to foster a wider war, preferably a war against Russia. The lunatics truly have taken over the asylum.

  • craig Post author


    You are presuming that the UK can have 100% success in identifying, in a built up area in hostile territory, precisely the identity of a single individual at the moment their aircraft is in place, even when that individual is in a building. You then are predicating not only that the missiles themselves have 100 per cent accuracy to within three feet, but that nobody else is or will approach within a twenty metre radius of the individual.

    It is absolutely plainly an impossibility. Unlikely to happen once, let alone be repeatable hundreds of times with 100% success.

    Bombing Raqqa is not going to douse terrorism. It is adding petrol to flame.

    It is rather for you to prove by what mechanism killing someone in Syria would have stopped French people, born in France, from killing people with weapons obtained in Belgium.

    I have a theory that if we leave the Islamic world alone, it might eventually leave us alone. That talking ends terrorism more effectively than bombing. Your method has been tried repeatedly and proven disastrous.

  • Phil

    Not really a NATO supporter. Do i like WMD’s no, of course not. But thats another argument. We would be targeting ISIS positions no, such as bases and a like. How many innocent civilians would be mingling with ISIS fighters.

    IMO this is a war and should be treated like one. There are risks yes, but if steps are taken to minimise them we should begin air strikes.

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