The Surveillance State Should Be Targeted on Cows 330


British citizens are now watched by Big Brother more closely than any other people in the world. All activity by British people on the web or on the phone is now monitored and stored. The British government employs more secret police – GCHQ, MI5, MI6 and SO15 – per head of population than Russia. Let me repeat that. The British have more secret police per head of population than Russia. British people are watched on closed circuit television more often than any other people in the world. Under the Prevent programme, “radicals” like me can only speak in universities under monitoring so intense and conditions so onerous that organisers give up, as I can personally witness.

The Prevent strategy provides for informants in every governmental institution who report any expressions of dissent. The UK has effective levels of surveillance – and a far higher volume of intelligence reports on their own citizens – than were ever achieved by the Stasi in Eastern Germany.

But of course, it is all “essential” to protect the citizens from the “threat” of Islamic terrorism, which is a fundamental threat to our existence, right?

So how big a threat is Islamic terrorism?

Since 2000, 57 people have been killed in the UK by Islamic terrorism.
Since 2000, 74 people have been killed in the UK by cattle.
So cows are actually a more potent threat to our personal society that terrorism.

Or more seriously – since 2000, 15,612 people have been murdered in the UK. Of whom only 57 were murdered by terrorists. You have in fact almost a 300 times greater chance of being murdered by someone else than by a terrorist. Indeed you have over 200 times a greater chance of being murdered by your partner, a family member or a close friend, than a terrorist.

The surveillance state has fundamentally changed society in response to a “threat” which is statistically miniscule.

It has greatly increased the power of the state, at a time when the state is both facilitating and protecting the greatest growth in wealth inequality in human history.

That is not a coincidence.


330 thoughts on “The Surveillance State Should Be Targeted on Cows

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  • BrianFujisan

    I think Craig Is Correct Aboot Coo’s….. The Fucking Beasts tried to kill me one time ,,But But I was Once able to out Run the beastsI

    • fred

      I have no doubt you asked for it. Unlike terrorists coos are no threat if you don’t go near them, they won’t follow you onto a tube train or plane. Coos are wonderful peaceful placid creatures unless you go into their world and rile them.

      Apart from the military coos that is, you have to watch out for the military coos.

      • fedup

        Fred give over mate, when was the last time any of the sons of the bitches “tayrrreesssit” followed anyone on board a plane? And don’t you go an cite the “Underpants Bomber ala Chertoff” or that gormless idiot patsy Richard Reed the “shoe bomber” who was grinning like a Cheshire cat as he was being given the treatment of the “most dangerous man on the planet Earth, nay the Milky Way nay the whole of the universe and other parts unknown”!!!!

        Coos peaceful? The last time I was having me sandwich and a pack of crisps in the quiet of the field, the swine crept up on me and you could see they were not exactly intent on being friendly and wholesome, unless they were undercover military coos and I didn’t notice that !!!

        • fred

          I expect if someone wandered into your home uninvited and started having a picnic on your living room carpet you wouldn’t be too happy about it either.

          Leave coos alone they’ll leave you alone, unlike terrorists.

          • Ba\'al Zevul

            Agree
            A herd of young stirks will follow you around en masse, closing the range as they do. They’re insatiably curious, and may think you have some cattle nuts concealed about your person. It can be intimidating, but don’t increase the confusion by running. Advisory (strong): stay out of their field. Cows with calves should NEVER be approached. If you have a dog with you, that goes double, with flashing lights, a Government health warning and a requirement for accident insurance, not just for the dog.

            And shut the gate after you, please.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          Fedup – has it ever occurred to you that whether Richard Reed was a patsy or not, his action demonstrated that there are people out there willing to try and blow up on airliner in mid-flight?

          To deny that and/or to make fun of it is simply moronic.

          • fedup (Snitchsmeller Pursuivant)

            Of course it has, see as we speak there the likes of you, who are busy playing “where do you live”* and then write up reports to CC to every SIS they can find in the phone book, on the internet!

            There are cretins everywhere, but that somehow dose not mean that your paranoid delusions are correct and there is “tayyyyrrrreesit” under every park bench/bed/sofa/airline seat, therefore the pervasive state of “terror” is only a product of your unhinged fears and contradictions.

            * I recollect playing”where do you live” and when it thought it had managed to get my postal code was so gratified that even thanked me for it!!!! ROFL

      • BrianFujisan

        I didn’t Ask for it Fred…was young and just passing through a field…I just had No idea that they could charge. maybe i was even wearing a wrong color. or there might have been young among then… can’t recall as it was Zillions of moons ago

    • Paul Barbara

      My brush with coos was on a short camping trip to Devon; I found a farm near Torcross, and asked permission to set my one-man tent up on one of their fields. They gave me permission, so I set up my tent and repaired to the village for a drink. Drinking rough cider and Guiness (not mixed) I got quite plastered, and made my way back to my tent (I found it OK). Off to sleep I went, only to be woken some time later in a groggy state, to find the tent shaking. I poked my head out, and there were several coos nudging up against the tent. I shooed them away, and back to sleep I went.
      A more menacing encounter was with a pig in Shoreham, Kent. I was working on a farm, and had gone as often into the village for drinkies. On the way back, I thought I would take a short cut through another farmers field. Suddenly I heard something charging towards me, and saw a huge pig. I waved my arms, to try to frighten it away, but it kept charging. Luckily there was a half-brick or rock about the same size on the ground; I picked it up and threw it, hitting the pig on the snout. That stopped it, and it retreated. I later learned how dangerous pig’s bites were, and didn’t try that shortcut again.

  • Petraco

    The surveillance state is reality, and yes the situation is worse in Britain than in most other capitalist democracies.

    The overriding question is: what is this surveillance for? Is it just that police and “security” organisations will always expand their powers until stopped, so the failure lies in the shortcoming of judicial and government organs? Or is it that the British establishment, government and ruling class actively fear rebellion from the lower ranks and need the information to disrupt and contain that pressure?

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      “Or is it that the British establishment, government and ruling class actively fear rebellion from the lower ranks and need the information to disrupt and contain that pressure?”
      _______________________________

      In a sense, the above could be construed as a stab at answering my question(s) of a day or so ago, ie, what PRACTICAL effects could greater surveillance have on the life of the ordinary citizen and if there are demonstrable practical effects, can it be shown that these are negative.

      I should like the contributor to set out in a little more detail what, in his opinion, the expression “to disrupt and contain that pressure” could actually mean in practice.

      As an introduction to that explanation, the contributor might also care to spell out exactly what he means by “rebellion” and the form he thinks (or perhaps hopes?) that that “rebellion” might take.

      Thank you.

      • Jim

        Habbs, if undercover police are willing to go to the lengths of infiltrating slightly anti-establishment groups, forming sexual relationships with women in those groups, and then abandoning them with devastating consequences, it’s not exactly beyond the bounds of possibility that they would also misuse the access they have to CCTV for their own nefarious purposes.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          Fair point, Jim, but needs completing.

          What sort of misuse and nefarious purposes – and how, in practice – occur to you?

          • Jim

            Well just off the top of my head, the threat of prosecution from trumped up charges, consequent job loss etc. Those threats don’t sound ‘dramatic’ but their dampening effect on possible mass dissent could be very real. As you say, there are no polls on this, but it seems a logical thing to postulate. Certainly far from being beyond the bounds of possibility.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          Jim

          Come on, be serious. Trumped up charges could be brought – indeed have been – whether CCTV exists or not.

          Not that they’re an everyday occurrence, I’d say. In fact, I’d say there is less risk of someone being done on a trumped up charge than of being killed by a cow.

          You must really avoid the sort of mindless paranoia and kick-against -everything thinking which afflict so many on this blog.

          • glenn_uk

            Would you illustrate your conclusion with reference to some figures, please? Far better than mere assertion, I’m sure you’d agree.

            Thank you.

          • Jim

            Tell those women who had their lives ruined by those absolute cnuts that they were being paranoid Habbs. Paid for by taxpayers and still untouched. I don’t think I’ve had my mind bent too much by the blog! ? A little bit, but that’s only because of my own deficiencies and inconsistencies. Well anyway, it’s not a stretch by any means to imagine that if those, er…types, are capable of such behaviour, that they are still at it. Of course they are, it’s obvious to a blind man.

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            Yes, Jim, and the operations you refer to had nothing to do with CCTV or increased internet surveillance, which are supposed to be the subject of this thread and on which I put my questions as to practical effects and whether any practical effects which might be identified would automatically be negative ones.

          • Jim

            It’s the mindset and motivations of the people with access to increased levels of CCTV data that are important Habbs, that’s what I was illustrating. It’s increased weaponry in their armoury. There’s no ‘proof’ that the dampening of dissent is occurring, no polls, but gut feeling is not to be dismissed so lightly. It’s an agree to disagree on this one I think!

          • Jim

            And come to think of it (I’m a bit slow) if the dissent-stifling effect was happening, and the large-scale public dissent wasn’t happening because of it, then the trumped up charges (or public ‘naming and shaming’ with all its consequences for instance) wouldn’t be needed. The mere threat would be enough to have the necessary effect.

          • Habbakuk (flush out the liars and haters)

            @ Jim, (19h50)

            You’re right, but speculation about mindsets and motivations and expressions of gut feeling us very subjective, isn’t it? I suppose it comes down in the end to whether you think the state is there – ultimately – for the public good (despite it’s frequent errors and injustices) or whether you see it as some sort of conspiracy against the public good designed to oppress “the people” (whoever they are…).

            Anyway, keep posting on various subjects – good to hear a sane voice here.

          • Jim

            I’m somewhere in the middle I suppose Habbs. We’re relatively lucky in this country compared to many places in the world, but when you hear of hideous cases like the one I mentioned, it makes you realise just what sort of very unpleasant forces are out there keeping tabs on even relatively minor expressions of dissent. And it doesn’t take much imagination to see that mass expressions of such dissent will be likely to incur that much more attention. What better control tool than the ones we’ve been discussing? As you say though, without data it’s unproven and subjective stuff. Time for bed!

  • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

    Where’s our friend “Monteverdi” these days? I’m concerned for him.

  • giyane

    Mark Golding

    Just having ones emails or browsing history tracked and information given to people you know is intended to create a sense of powerlessness/omnipotence of the spyer.

    People dismiss it as a small thing, as people dismiss lying. The fact that the state and its licenced subsidiaries do this all the time means that we are all being subjected to mild torture. Do not try to resist.

    On the other hand this is likely to cause rebellion in other areas. The appearance of Government ministers or President Obama to wish us not to leave the EU may get an unexpected backlash.

    Out of bounds,. hopefully Craig is having a lie-in this is my main reason for voting out of Europe having always previously been a great supporter:

    http://www.voltairenet.org/spip.php?page=recherche&lang=en&recherche=german+plan+for+Syria

    Terror in Syria not going to be brought under control until Germany has the result it wants.

    • bevin

      You are right about the effect that the sense of being under constant and total surveillance must have in suppressing movements of rebellion, before they have begun.
      This, one presumes, is why the right wing joined with the rest of society in lamenting the existence the Stasi and other secret police forces with spies working undercover and monitoring of all communications through the mail or telephone. We might say that it is curious that the Tories only worry about spying in other countries, while they promote it here. We might say that were it not that the Empire screams otherwise and that secret policing, surveillance and dirty tricks of every kind were central to Britain’s government of, for example, India.
      One can’t help wondering whether, given present surveillance capabilities any of the much vaunted citizens movements in eastern Europe would not have been nipped in the bud. Certainly they would have taken much longer to fructify.
      As I pointed out to the nitpicker of Cheltenham, when he first made the silly enquiry to which he refers above, it really is so obvious that surveillance by the state is oppressive and dangerous to freedom that it is difficult to believe that anyone could, sincerely, doubt it. Putting aside the “if you have nothing to hide you won’t worry” nonsense, (which presumes a complete innocence and obedience to not just laws but principles of justice on the part of the state) it is axiomatic that we have the right of privacy.
      “An Englishman’s home is his castle” it is said. And nobody has a right to poke his nose into that castle, peer through its windows or smuggle in agents under false pretences.

      But there is another and more sinister aspect to the Panopticon system which is that the data collected is constantly analysed, by social scientists, with a view to discovering how best to manipulate opinion, to anticipate popular reactions to state policies and, in conjunction with a programme of removing threatening individuals ( and the means of doing so surreptitiously range from assassination, disappearances, framing charges and imprisoning right through a gamut of poisonings (it is widely believed in certain circles that Chavez was the victim of biological agents introduced by an assassin. And we know from the Church Commission that Fidel Castro was the target of several assassination attempts) and accidents (fill in this blank) to our old friend ‘suicide’ (cue Lord Hutton).
      To return to the point: we already know how subtly the advertising agencies can direct public opinion on the basis of very incomplete samplings of data. Given the massive and comprehensive collection of data now within the grasp of GCHQ employees and secret police, not mandated to disrupt popular deliberation and change the subject in discussions and debates, the threat to democracy take a quantum leap. The ‘packaging’ and presentation of government actions can be much more sophisticated and designed to deceive voters.

      As Bentham intended the Panopticon is designed to prevent democracy and to reserve to Big Brother the ability to rule ternally.
      Those who read Orwell’s 1984 as a partisan attack on the Soviet Union were always idiots but now their excuse for taking the easy way are dissolved: it is time to re-read the book and understand it for its real target which was the society we still live in, evolved, certainly since 1948, but in the direction which leads to the totalitarian dystopia prophesied.
      (And now, I gather, we are at war with eurasia again. We have always been at war with eurasia. And will be until they adopt our values, which are the universal values of justice and right reason. Only Putinbots would disagree and we know where they live. Or lived.)

      • Jim

        Jesus Christ, the irony of a lecture on nineteen eighty four from you. A few days ago you were a veritable black-pyjama’d O’Brien.

      • Rose

        Agree that 1984 is essential reading for today (Wonder if it’s still on the English A level syllabus?)

        I picked up my old Penguin paperback copy the other night to read again, but only got as far as p10 where Winston is recording his diary for April 4th:

        “Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean ………….then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a helicopter hovering over it, there was a middle-aged woman….sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in her arms, little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her …………putting her arms around him and comforting him although she was blue with fright herself ….as if she thought her arms could keep the bullets off him ”

        There follows a harrowing account which made me put the book down in despair. When I first read it in 1959, it would not have occurred to me that in 2016 we could be so close to that horrific scenario. Is sending vulnerable people, many of them children back to uncertain futures in war-torn countries such a big step from killing them directly?

  • Demetrius

    For various reasons for the last sixty years I have assumed that them out there are not so much watching, but listening to me. Not that it has done them much good because the quiet life is one that appeals to me. BTW you forgot the vinegar in your grocery order.

  • fedup (Snitchsmeller Pursuivant)

    The crowning turd of the current policies of hatred against Muslims. A gift that never stops giving, in a series of airliner ejections of the Muslim passengers, the ejections continue unabated, with the addition of thorough body searches, ie really up close and personal security perverts enjoying touching people up and getting paid for it. Talk about mixing pleasure with work*.

    This is the statement of the south West Arilines to the suspected bomber Muslim passenger;

    “Why would you speak in Arabic on the airplane?” the employee asked him. “It’s dangerous. You know the environment around the airport. You understand what’s going on in this country.”

    The degrees of freedom in the original “freedom lands” is so much so that one can only speak in any other language so long as it is “English”. The Muslim victim who had attended a dinner and speech at the UN during which he had also been applauded for the pertinent question that he had put to the guest speaker one Ban Ki Moon. Was on the phone recanting the trip to his uncle, and a female passenger “being a Good German circa 1936” reports him to the staff whom in turn turf the chap out and hand him over to the security staff at the airport. Can anyone imagine if the tables were turned and it was one of the “master race” who had been kicked off the airplane and molested rough fashion?

    .Full story here, not that anyone ever reads the links, but ho hum

    *(H…kuk eat your heart out)

    • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

      Since I just finished reading a new book about the internment of Japanese in the U.S. during World War Two, Infamy by Richard Reeves, I am reminded of how Japanese and Japanese-Americans were treated in that conflict. (Also happened in Canada, by the way.) Reeves has said he wrote the book because of the attitudes he saw developing towards Muslims and because he wanted to prevent the same sort of things that happened to the Japanese happening to the Muslims.

      Fred Korematsu, the defendant in the criminal case in which the U.S. Supreme Court delivered its infamous decision upholding the internment of the Japanese, spent the last years of his life arguing that Muslims should not be treated as the Japanese had been. (His so-called “crime” was violating the internment order, He died in 2005, and thus lived to see 9/11 and the reactions to it.)

      • glenn_uk

        The Japanese weren’t exactly laying on their famous tea ceremony for our POWs in their charge on a daily basis, you might note. Strikes me there’s more than enough blame to go around.

        • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

          True, but the U.S. is supposed to obey its Constitution and to live up to its ideals. Shocking that the administration of FDR, of all people, should not have, and that so many supposed liberals should have supported the internment policy.

          Bear also in mind that there is a strong case to be made for the view that FDR deliberately provoked Japan into attacking so that he could use their attack as a back door for getting into the European war.

        • fedup (Snitchsmeller Pursuivant)

          You best watch this

          As you will notice there are huge discrepancies, ie why the same treatment was not afforded to the German Americans or Italian American?

          • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

            Reeves discusses that. The numbers of German-Americans and Italian-Americans were just too large, and they were too well integrated with the rest of the white population. There were many German-Americans and Italian-Americans in the U.S. military. Most notably Eisenhower, but Nimitz also comes to mind.

          • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

            Tooey Spaatz was commander of the U.S. Army Air Force during the war. (After the war, he became the first commander of the U.S. Air Force once it became a separate service independent of the Army.)

      • fedup (Snitchsmeller Pursuivant)

        Thanks lysias will take note of the book, I am sure I will find it interesting. It is a seldom discussed dark chapter of the history in US. However having said that, Salem is never too far away, is it? The witch trials are now far more sophisticated and the witch smellers and witch finders have evolved to use science instead or wreathing and twisting on the ground and pointing to the witches/”tayyrrrressits” and denouncing them.

  • fedup (Snitchsmeller Pursuivant)

    “Israelis treat Palestinians in a way that is very like that in which Jews were treated during Germany in the 1930s”.

    How dare the Swedish minister dare to think out and tell the truth about zionistan? Off with his head, where will we end up? If people just started telling the truth willy-nilly fashion?

    The minister evidently had made the comments back in 2009 before becoming a a minister. Also among his other sins were, he has been caught Nazi saluting* and then some .

    *The reporter and photographer had asked him how high is a horse and as he was showing them how high a horse could be, he was snapped and there you have the Nazi swine clearly saluting his Nazi Arab mates and the Mofti of Jerusalem and some other historical relic that will be soon unearthed to further prove the world of total danger that is facing the “master race”.

    • Node

      “Israelis treat Palestinians in a way that is very like that in which Jews were treated during Germany in the 1930s.”

      “Israelis treat Palestinians in a way that is worse than that in which Jews were treated during Germany in the 1930s”.

  • Jermynstreetjim

    (bevin @ 14.36 p.m., 18th April): Further footnote suggesting/positing, that our perniciously appointed and prurient instruments of panoptican purview, may now even be rendered obsolete, courtesy of the imposition of new Commercial Surveillance Software……. ! ‘Surveillance has long been theorized as a way to control the surveilled—namely, by getting them to police themselves out of fear of being watched. But these technologies encode control directly alongside surveillance: a creditor can control their property even without controlling the debtor’s behavior. The kill switch pre-empts the Panopticon and renders it superfluous. And this groundbreaking improvement in social control is now installed in millions of automobiles across the country, waiting for a subprime lender to call for its assistance.’ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/04/rental-company-control/478365/

    • bevin

      Thank you for your hints. I, however, cannot respond further as I am out of town for a day or two.

  • Rob King

    The situation is a little bit different. For every cow that kills someone there aren’t 10 cows who knew about it and wanted to do it, and 10 times that number of cows who would cover up daisy’s murdering of me. So, in general, cows don’t want me dead. However, a significant (though still minority) population in the UK do want me dead. How many? A few thousand? A few tens of thousands? It’s rational to fear these people. It was Craig Murray himself who pointed this out to me in a talk some years back (every terrorists requires a considerable support network) so I’m surprised that he seems to have forgotten it.
    Also–the figure of nearly 16K murders seems somewhat inflated. The murder rate in the UK has been declining from about 800/year since 2000 to about 500/year more recently.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Road fatalities would have made a more spectacular comparison. And as a fair proportion of motor vehicle drivers want cyclists dead, cycle fatalities would have answered your point adequately.

  • Paul Barbara

    @ Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit April 18, 2016 at 13:23
    ‘Good to see that Dilma is gone.
    Her cow-towing to NSA surveillance, especially getting rid of Eduardo Campos, was just too much for Brazilians otherwise on the take.’

    So you like the roll-back of the Left in Latin America? Back to the ‘good old days’ of Juntas, Death Squads, rape, torture, disappearance?

    The US has no Democracy, it’s ‘elections’ are rigged and gerrymandered, or outright stolen by illegal Supreme Court intervention, ‘hanging chads’, Diebold, voter disenfranchisement.
    Do you suppose Brazil has a straight system? Money rules, and now the people who remember life under the military dictatorship of ’64-’85 are becoming thinner on the ground, and the youngsters’ minds are filled with soap operas, football and wall-to-wall ‘entertainment’, the US sees it’s chance to get it’s puppets back in the saddle. Same with Venezuela (after the murder of Hugo Chavez).
    The Empire has already succeeded in Honduras, Haiti and Colombia, and arguably Mexico, in going back to the ‘good old days’.
    Roll on the Day of Judgement; it will come.

  • Paul Barbara

    @ Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit April 18, 2016 at 13:56
    ‘Wonder if that big earthquake off Ecuador has cauased it to having second thoughts about harboring Julian Assange, and kicking out USAID last year?’
    and
    @ lysias (DON’T FEED THE TROLLS)
    April 18, 2016 at 15:54
    ‘Manta, the site of the air base that the U.S. was kicked out of by Correa in 2009, was one of the areas hardest hit by the earthquake.’

    I hadn’t heard about this; but yes, I’m sure you’re both right in your implied cause of the ‘earthquake’.
    Courtesy of HAARP and it’s successors, I would guess. Just like Haiti, China, and Iran.
    And of course we have ‘Owning the Weather by 2025’, ‘Chemtrails’ and all that, in conjunction with HAARP.
    Unbelievable weather patterns, prolonged droughts (California etc.), and like the MSM, the Weather bureaus stay shtum, as do the ‘Climate Campaigners’.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Rubbish. It was a super laser fired, failing a US submarine which had run aground, space. Rather like 9/11 was God’s punishment for American homosexuals, implemented by the Rothschilds, and in fact slightly less probable, so almost certainly true. Out of the blue, just like that, in a place that has never had an earthquake before, or any reason to have one. Wooooo.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes_in_Ecuador

      PS, here’s the map of the epicentre:

      https://www.unicefusa.org/sites/default/files/PDC_EQ_7_8_Ecuador_Shaking_Intensity_16APR16.jpg

      ‘*’ marks the spot where the space laser was focussed. It delivered enough energy to unstick a reverse fault extending 20Km down, without anyone noticing anything. If only I could demonstrate to you the utter bollocks on bollocks you have just posted. My only hope is that you too might have sarcastic intent, in which case I beg you to make this clearer.

    • Habbakuk (flush out the liars and haters)

      I got caught in quite a downpour yesterday. I think it was the CIA trying some destabilisation.

  • Silvio

    Russ Baker is an investigative reporter in the USA. Some of his investigative reporting went into producing his book The Bush Dynasty, America’s Invisible Government, and the Hidden History of the Last Fifty Years – recommended reading for anyone still left wondering how a tongue tied, inarticulate and under-educated doofus like GW Bush managed to end up President of the USA.

    Baker also runs a web site, WhoWhatWhy, where he and other authors and investigative journalists post their work. Over the last three years the web site has carried many articles concerning the anomalies and unanswered questions surrounding the April 2013 Boston Bombing incident. Here for your perusal is his most recent post on the topic.

    The Boston Bombing Anniversary: A Legacy of Unanswered Questions

    The Boston Marathon Bombing is one of the most astonishing stories of the new millennium, a smaller but no less problematic 9/11, where, again, so much doesn’t add up. And, again, the FBI appears to have played its long-running role as a coverup vehicle — protecting those who apparently have more hold over the Bureau than either Congress or the temporary occupant of the White House.

    In the days after the bombing, WhoWhatWhy risked ridicule, marginalization, and worse, to honor the best instincts of journalism. Virtually alone among American news organizations — indeed, news media the world over, which just promoted the problem-riddled official version of events — we kept our heads down, ignored the brickbats and, with few people and limited resources, pressed onward.

    The result was the more than 70 stories we published on our site. We hope, if you are not familiar with them, you will take the time to educate yourself about this mass-murder mystery that touches on so many of the central issues of our day.

    It is profoundly important that we keep the spotlight on events like these, where so much of the official narrative does not add up.

    Continued at: http://whowhatwhy.org/2016/04/17/boston-bombing-anniversary-legacy-unanswered-questions/

  • Habbakuk (flush out the liars and haters)

    “Israelis treat Palestinians in a way that is worse than that in which Jews were treated during Germany in the 1930s”.
    ___________________________

    The above is from an Israel-hater called “Node”.

    “Node” has no idea of what he is talking about.

    Since “Node” was the publisher of weekly lists detailing Israeli “genocide” against the Palestinians, I shall return the favour by giving him and others a little list of what happened to the Jews in Germany between 1933 and 1943.

    *************************

    1933 : First official boycott of Jewish shops, lawyers and doctors. Demands for the removal of Jewish pupils and students from schools and universities.

    1934 : Aryan origin gradually becomes the pre-requisite of professional life in many spheres.

    1935 : Promulgation of the Nuremburg Laws for the protection of German blood and German honour (15 September).
    National Law of Citizenship. First decree of the National Law of Citizenship: definition of the term “Jew” and of the “Mischling” (mixed-blood) status. The Aryan paragraph becomes a precondition of every official appointment. First decree of the National Law for the protection of German blood and German honour: marriages between Jews and second-generation Mischlinge prohibited (14 November).

    1937 : Intensification of the Aryanisation process, by which Jewish owners lose their businesses without any legal justification (Spring).

    1938 : Decree concerning the registration of all Jewish wealth exceeding 5.000 Reichsmarks (26 April).
    Destruction of the Munich synagogue (9 June).
    Third decree of the National Law of Citizenship: the registration and marking of all remaining Jewish entreprises (14 June).
    Destruction of the Nuremberg synagogue (10 August).
    Second decree of the law concerning the change of first names and surnames: the introduction of the compulsory prefixes of Sarah and Israel , to come into force on 1.1.1939 (17 August).
    Passports for Jews are only valid if they have the red letter J stamped in them ((5 October).
    “Crystal Night” pogrom takes place throughout Germany: destruction of synagoges, shops and flats. More than 20.000 Jews imprisoned (9-10 November).
    Decrees concerning the elimination of German Jews from the economy. Jews have to pay a collective fine of 1.25 billion marks for all destruction caused by the Nazis in the course of the pogrom (12 November).
    Expulsion of all Jewish pupils from schools (15 November).
    Decree concerning the compulsory Aryanisation of all Jewish entreprises and shops (3 December).

    1939 : Confiscation of all Jewish valuables (30 April).
    Law concerning Jewish tenancies. Legal preparation for the concentration of Jewish families in “Jewish houses”.
    Jews forbidden to be out of doors after 8pm in winter and 9pm in summer (1 September).
    Confiscation of all wireless sets owned by Jews (23 September).

    1940 : First deportations of Jews from Germany, mainly from the province of Pomerania (12-13 February).
    Deportation of Jews from Baden, the Saar and Alsace-Lorraine (22 October).

    1941 : Employment of German Jews as compulsory labour (7 March).
    Decree compelling Jews to wear the yellow star from 19 September (1 September). Further limitation of Jewish freedom of movement.
    Beginning of the general deportation of German Jews (17-18 September).

    1942 : Ban on Jews using public transport ( 24 April).
    Drastic reduction of food rations for Jews in the Reich – including exclusion of various categories of food, eg fruit (18 September).

    1943 : Start of deportation of Jews employed in the Bermin armaments industry (27 February).

    *************************

    It would be good if people – including Craig – were to dissociate themselves from the hateful claims made by “Node”.

    • glenn_uk

      So you’re saying the Israelis can only be viewed favourably by reference to the behaviour of the German Nazis?

      That’s a pretty low bar, if we’re being honest.

      However – let’s look at a couple of the items you mentioned above, some caught my eye.

      Bans on Jews using public transport

      Why, I just entered a quick search, and found this with no effort:

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/20/israeli-scheme-to-ban-palestinians-from-buses-tantamount-to-apartheid

      Drastic reduction of food rations for Jews in the Reich

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/apr/16/israel

      Israel’s policy was summed up by Dov Weisglass, an adviser to Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister, earlier this year. ‘The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger,’ he said. The hunger pangs are supposed to encourage the Palestinians to force Hamas to change its attitude towards Israel or force Hamas out of government.

      I don’t think we need even discuss deportation of Jews, and compare it with the deportation of Palestinians to the refugee camps for the last 70 years.


      Habbabkuk – you’ve opened yourself to a load of whoop-ass with your comparisons above, with all due respect, you might want to stop comparing German Nazis with Israeli Nazis, because any serious examination might prove more than a little embarrassing for Israeli Zionist apologists around here.

      • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

        Patrisse Cullors, one of the founders of Black Lives Matter, was quite clear that Israel is an apartheid state after her visit to Israel and Palestine:

        Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said apartheid is what immediately struck her about what she saw on the ground.

        “This is an apartheid state. We can’t deny that and if we do deny it we are apart of the Zionist violence. There are two different systems here in occupied Palestine. Two completely different systems. Folks are unable to go to parts of their own country. Folks are barred from their own country.”

      • Habbakuk (flush out the liars and haters)

        Glenn

        You may perhaps have noticed that it was not I but “Node” who was comparing Israeli treatment of the Palestinians to Nazi treatment of the Jews in the 1930s.

        My post was a response to that.

      • Habbakuk (flush out the liars and haters)

        Glenn

        Further to yours and my response – on the two examples you give.

        Transport : the link you give reveals this was a pilot project envisaged for 2015. Was it broadened subsequently and is it in general application now? Secondly: if it is now in general application, it would apply to the transport of Palestinians working in Israel proper but living in the Occupied Territories; in Germany the ban on using public transport applied within the Reich. Thirdly, it would have been applied for security reasons (suicide bombers,, etc) – this comment is for those who will immediately shout “Apartheid!”.

        Rationing : German rations (for civilians – and with certain exceptions, eg heavy industrial workers), were already less than generous and compared unfavorably with those in Britain. Reducing them substantially, and excluding certain categories of foodstuffs such as fruit, was designed to add slow starvation to the horrors already suffered by those German Jews still alive in the Reich. The link you provide dates from 2006 and refers to Gaza and not the Occupied Territories and Israel proper: is there evidence that the Palestinians in Gaza are starving? I think not.

        ***********************

        The problem with people like you, Glenn, is not that you point to Israeli misdeeds in the Occupied Territories and Gaza – that’s fair enough – but that you appear to buy in to dingbat assertions made by haters like “Node”, who claim that the treatment of Palestinians by Israel is worse than the treatment of the German Jews by the Nazis in the 1930s.

        You must know that this is false but you seem strangely reluctant to admit it. Your failure to do so – and claims like the one made by our friend “Node” – devalues what you have to say about Israel/Palestine in the eyes of most people.

        • glenn_uk

          Again, Habbabkuk, you’re illustrating that the comparison with German Nazis is quite fair – it’s just a question of degree!

          Seriously, I’d leave that one alone if I were you, it doesn’t suit your obvious purpose (which – for the benefit of newcomers – is to defend Israel’s behaviour no matter what it does, even to the point of denying the existence of Palestinians at all).

          You mentioned rationing, just to take one. I did a search on “malnutrition in Gaza” – this is the first result:

          http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/chronic-malnutrition-in-gaza-blamed-on-israel-1019521.html

          Are you claiming you knew nothing about this? You don’t know how to do simple searches, or are you hoping a simple denial will do the trick?

          *
          “…but that you appear to buy in to dingbat assertions made by haters like “Node”, who claim that the treatment of Palestinians by Israel is worse than the treatment of the German Jews by the Nazis in the 1930s.

          Nope, and I’d made that rather clear in the previous couple of posts. Your best defence, however, is to point out Israel is not quite as bad. And that’s a pretty poor defence (admittedly, of the indefensible).

          • Habbabkuk (it's the big picture that counts)

            OK, Glenn, let’s cut through the crap.

            1/. For about the fifth time: it was the hater “Node” who was making the comparison between Israeli treatment of Palestinians and Nazi treatment of the German Jews pre-war – to the detriment of the Israelis. O merely offered a few details of what the Nazi treatment of German Jews consisted of.

            2/. Here’s a question for you: do you agree with “Node” that the treatment of Palestinians by Israel is worse than the treatment of the German Jews by the Nazis in the 1930s.”?

            (The original post by someone or other said that the treatments were the same. The hater “Node” modified that assertion to say that the Israeli treatment is worse).

    • bevin

      This is actually a useful list.
      A very similar one might be made of the escalating racist measures undertaken by the Zionists against Palestinians from, to choose a not entirely arbitrary date, 1938 to the present.
      What would be common to both lists is the ideology of ‘racism shared by the supporters of Naziism in the 1930s and, its philosophical cousin, Revisionist Zionist Fascism in its current manifestation.

      The reality is that while Habbahasbara is pirouetting on the graves of long dead victims of an atrocious crime, Node is angrily denouncing the current commission of crimes and does so in the hope of putting an end to such appalling practices as “mowing the grass” in Gaza.

      I’m with Node, and so I suspect, are the shades of the victims of fascism who died in the 1930s (and 1940s) at the hands of people who, to be painfully honest, shared many of the attitudes (including a taste for robust lynchings) of Habbawhatever and his crocodile tear ducts.

  • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

    I think everyone agrees that genocide was committed by Germany against the Jews during World War Two. But when the comparison that is made is between Israeli treatment of Palestinians today and German treatment of Jews in the 1930’s, what is the point of bringing up that genocide during World War Two?

    • Habbakuk (flush out the liars and haters)

      Actually, if you look carefully, my post illustrates the treatment of German Jews from 1933 to 1943 and does not go into the genocide question.

      That in order to give the lie to “Node”s evil claim that “Israelis treat Palestinians in a way that is worse than that in which Jews were treated during Germany in the 1930s” (you may notice that Node uses the word “treat” and not “genocide”).

      And now stop trying to divert and distract.

    • Loony

      If “we” is defined as the US/UK then the answer to your question is yes.

      You appear to have discovered nothing more than evidence that Russia intends to defend itself. I know that those who believe themselves to be the rulers of the world are unable to grasp that anyone would dare defy them, After all the blood and treasure expended on “shock and awe” – what an enormous shock it must be to find a population that does not cravenly cower before the hegemonic power. Not only do they dare defy you they also pose a credible threat to your continued existence should you not mind your own business and leave other people alone.

      The UK/US has already falsified itheirhistory so completely that the only thing that needs to be criminalized is anyone telling the truth. Just in case you consider this hyperbole ask yourself whether the cults of no-platforming, trans-phobia, hate speech, micro aggression, and safe spaces all came about by spontaneous popular demand or whether there is some other explanation,

      • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

        I am reminded of the French rhyme: Cet animal est très méchant:/
        Quand on l’attaque, il se défend.

      • Jim

        Eh? The ‘cults of no-platforming and safe spaces’ not the domain of the right but the aggressive ultra-intolerant far left! They’re so intransigent that even Germaine Greer and Peter Tatchell are beyond the pale in their eyes. If you want to paint a picture of an insane topsy turvy worldview just take a look in the mirror. Putin is God, Peter Tatchell is the devil, Bevin’s at his little shrine, giving lectures on the dangers of totalitarianism. My brain hurts.

        • Jim

          And when it comes to Putins instruments of state control, everything is suddenly tickety boo for you? Our CCCV proliferation is the epitome of evil, but Vlads little devices are just fine and dandy?

        • bevin

          “My brain hurts” no harm done then.
          This nonsense about, my “shrine” is an indication of just how small the brain in question is.

    • Habbakuk (flush out the liars and haters)

      No, Resident Dissident – that would merely be Russia “defending itself”. 🙂

      • Loony

        What a peculiar comment.

        Very recently you appeared to be suggesting that the wide scale deployment of CCTV was appropriate. Now, a state that would appear to be acting in close accord with your own expressed views, draws your sarcasm.

        Is your consistent principal inconsistency?

    • fedup

      It is already in place in UK, but we are British and as our “unwritten constitution” dictates we don’t do truth of that order! But you won’t know that, will you? Or hope that none of the “cattle” will; know it too!

      Also your shitty little strip of land has provided/supplied “voice scanning”* software to the insurance companies to “sus out false claims” this has been in operation now for a good few years. But there again you won’t know about that too.

      Your obsession with Russia and how nasty it is** does not colour your already biased and wonky vision does it?

      * whether it works or not is not the case/issue, but it is a damn good excuse for the insurance companies to stop paying out and harassing their beleaguered clients by calling them liars and cheats.

      ** cuz Russians went and stopped a perfectly good plan to plunder the Syrian resources by the “master race”/”the chose ones”. hence those Russians have made it onto the never ending and ever growing shit list of the zionist supremacists scrotes.

      • Resident Dissident

        For those that read this before the mods get to it – my crime was calling Fedup Shitty McShitface and advising him to take the tablets – all of which was a response in kind and a topical play on Fedup’s words in the previous post.

  • Paul Barbara

    @ Ba’al Zevul April 18, 2016 at 20:21
    You don’t have to beg, Ba’al, just ask. This is not conclusive proof, but it may help you to understand at least the possibility of large-scale weather modification and artificial earthquakes. It does not operate by lasers, but by focussed radio waves of massive wattage and specific wavelengths, which can be sent from the ground to bounce off the ionosphere back to a target on earth (or likely now by the space plane, as HAARP seems to have been superseded).
    A very small radio frequency transmitter being used to probe the earth for oil set off an accidental local earthquake; that led to the beginning of the Military project to create earthquakes to order.
    Here is a good video of how it works: ‘Angels Still Don’t Play This HAARP’ Dr. Nick Begich:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLZcaItj70U He also wrote at least one book on the subject.
    Regarding large-scale weather modification for military and political ends, see:
    ‘Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025’
    http://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf

    Also, ‘Was HAARP A Factor In The Fukushima Earthquake?’:
    http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/was-haarp-a-factor-in-the-fukushima-earthquake/
    Though earthquakes are not his forte, it is an excellent source for the Geoengineering of the weather being foisted onto the world in secret. He is particularly strong on what is going on in the States, especially California, but also the Arctic region.

    Now I have sent you this info, I hope you will actually check it out, rather than dismissing it out of hand.

    • fedup

      Paul HARRP has generated a lot of nonsense as ever the policy is to smother the truth. The best method is to make it sound ridiculous and stupid. I accept that Raytheon have umpteen thousand patents that have registered but are not available during any searches. However the notion of weather modification is another subject and it is already widely practised. So far as Earthquakes go, have you studied the structure of the hurtling rock in the directions unknown that we are sitting on?

      Electronics somehow cannot tickle it that much and if it did, don’t you think by now the Yanks had used to make it into planet US?

      I am busy writing up a nice little case in example in how to hide the truth by making it sound absurd, let me finish the research and then I will publish it in the forum.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Yeah, yeah. Whatever.

      What I generally do first, though, is check the sources. From his own biography I learn that his (only) doctorate is an honorary one, and not even in a physical science… Begich received Doctor of Medicine (Medicina Alternitiva), honoris causa, for independent work in health and political science, from The Open International University for Complementary Medicines, Colombo, Sri Lanka, in November 1994.

      http://www.earthpulse.com/src/category.asp?catid=13

      Without wishing to denigrate alternative medicine in any way, I’d suggest that the university, incorporated in Kazakhstan, is perhaps not at the forefront of radio frequency research-

      http://ointunialtmed.net/

      A quick and horrified scan of the same site adequately demonstrated the man’s scientific illiteracy. I wouldn’t be too impressed by the doctorate, then.

      I have earned qualifications, and extensive practical experience in, both electronics and geology.

      Two of the links are utter bollocks, and the Australian military one discusses ways of modifying the weather, principally by cloud seeding (with chemicals on which water drops can nucleate. There is an interesting discussion on using microwave energy to disperse fog, requiring huge power levels, at frequencies many tens of times that of HAARP. It goes into an ecstasy of detail on ionospheric modification, which is what HAARP probably does, in order to disrupt what I may call mid-frequency radio communication – possibly even SHF satellite-earth links.

      But we’re not talking about weather, or ionosphere modification, are we? We’re talking about a bloody huge earthquake, and the brutal facts of physics. Or at least I am…

      • Habbabkuk (it's the big picture that counts)

        Baal is right to always check the sources. That is what I do – with results that are usually embarrassing to the original poster.

        Baal – although I suppose he and I are poles apart on most things – is still streets ahead of the Dingbats and Haters when it comes to making his point.

        Indeed, he is one of the few who makes points rather than engaging in outdoor personal therapy.

  • glenn_uk

    Habbabkuk 10:21: “2/. Here’s a question for you: do you agree with “Node” that the treatment of Palestinians by Israel is worse than the treatment of the German Jews by the Nazis in the 1930s.”?

    No.

  • YouKnowMyName

    Encryption is proving deadly for some:

    A Chinese man has been sentenced to death for selling 150,000 classified documents that revealed key secrets about military and government data encryption to an unidentified foreign spy agency, state broadcaster CCTV said today.
    Huang Yu, a former computer technician at a Chinese research firm specializing in encryption, received US$700,000 for providing the documents between 2002 and 2011, CCTV said.

    but that’s sort of what ‘surveillance state wizard’ GCHQ is supposed to do, steal other states’ data, not UK citizens. . .

    • YouKnowMyName

      on the “DON’T FEED THE TROLLS” sub-monicker-heading,

      on the basis that some of the ‘trolls’ might be the new underpaid GCHQ script-kiddies in Manchester,we should remind the readership that being a state-intelligence ‘TROLL’ is hard. Even tho’ the TROLL identities are pre-defined, plausible and interlinked, the ten-identities-per-workstation operator crowd still have some of the problems of real-life, and perhaps of cows even?

      consider this quote, (nice diagram at the link too):

      “Psychologically, the essence of all undercover operations is the same,” 2006 paper . Officers “knowingly and purposefully develop relationships that they will eventually betray” with both the people they’re targeting and the people they meet in the context of their assumed identities. “Many undercover officers find this dual betrayal a difficult road to walk, adding to the stressors already inherent in undercover work.”

      Aw, bless, poor TROLLs

  • bevin

    Further to Node’s point, here is a report on the current (2016) situation in Palestine.
    http://www.palestinechronicle.com/logic-murder-israel-culture-impunity-full-view-entire-world/

    One lesson that we can learn from the behaviour of our ancestors in the 1930s is that when murders are committed with impunity it can be guaranteed that they will be multiplied in the future: the ground for Auschwitz was prepared in the mildness of the reaction to Crystal Night, the racist decrees and the open persecution of Jews.

    What we are seeing in Palestine now are the precursors of even greater crimes: the impunity with which bands of “settlers” carry out expeditions of arson and child murder is an earnest of massacres to come. It does Node great credit that he raises the alarm in order to warn decent people of the necessity of expressing their disgust and impatience at these calculated acts of terror.

  • Paul Barbara

    @ Ba’al Zevul April 19, 2016 at 09:09
    ‘Yeah, yeah. Whatever.
    What I generally do first, though, is check the sources. From his own biography I learn that his (only) doctorate is an honorary one, and not even in a physical science… Begich received Doctor of Medicine (Medicina Alternitiva), honoris causa, for independent work in health and political science, from The Open International University for Complementary Medicines, Colombo, Sri Lanka, in November 1994….’

    Does Dr. Begich lie about what his credentials are, or where they are from?
    It would seem to me that the Indian subcontinent and Far East would be THE places to go for alternative and complementary medicine instruction.

    ‘.. Without wishing to denigrate alternative medicine in any way, I’d suggest that the university, incorporated in Kazakhstan, is perhaps not at the forefront of radio frequency research…’

    Does he say or imply that to be the case?

    ‘…A quick and horrified scan of the same site adequately demonstrated the man’s scientific illiteracy. I wouldn’t be too impressed by the doctorate, then.
    I have earned qualifications, and extensive practical experience in, both electronics and geology.
    Two of the links are utter bollocks…’

    Could you please specify the specific articles or whatever that ‘..adequately demonstrated the man’s scientific illiteracy..’, and which two links are ‘..utter bollocks..’?

    ‘..But we’re not talking about weather, or ionosphere modification, are we? We’re talking about a bloody huge earthquake, and the brutal facts of physics. Or at least I am…’

    Are you disputing the fact that sound and radio frequencies can cause earthquakes and avalanches, or that a large group of people marching in step cannot cause dangerous vibrations and even collapse?
    http://www.livescience.com/34608-break-stride-frequency-of-vibration.html
    ‘In April 1831, a brigade of soldiers marched in step across England’s Broughton Suspension Bridge. According to accounts of the time, the bridge broke apart beneath the soldiers, throwing dozens of men into the water.
    After this happened, the British Army reportedly sent new orders: Soldiers crossing a long bridge must “break stride,” or not march in unison, to stop such a situation from occurring again.
    Structures like bridges and buildings, although they appear to be solid and immovable, have a natural frequency of vibration within them. A force that’s applied to an object at the same frequency as the object’s natural frequency will amplify the vibration of the object in an occurrence called mechanical resonance.
    Sometimes your car shakes hard when you hit a certain speed, and a girl on a swing can go higher with little effort just by swinging her legs. The same principle of mechanical resonance that makes these incidents happen also works when people walk in lockstep across a bridge.
    If soldiers march in unison across the structure, they apply a force at the frequency of their step.
    If their frequency is closely matched to the bridge’s frequency, the soldiers’ rhythmic marching will amplify the vibrational frequency of the bridge. If the mechanical resonance is strong enough, the bridge can vibrate until it collapses from the movement.
    A potent reminder of this was seen in June 2000, when London’s Millennium Bridge opened to great fanfare. As crowds packed the bridge, their footfalls made the bridge vibrate slightly. “Many pedestrians fell spontaneously into step with the bridge’s vibrations, inadvertently amplifying them,” according to a 2005 report in Nature.
    Though engineers insist the Millennium Bridge was never in danger of collapse, the bridge was closed for about a year while construction crews installed energy-dissipating dampers to minimize the vibration caused by pedestrians.’

    Shouting can and has caused avalanches; some women (and probably men) have shattered glasses just by singing at certain pitches.
    Rocks have resonant frequencies too; a tiny relative power can set up resonances within rocks, just like they can in engineered structures like bridges.

    • Clark

      “Structures like bridges and buildings, although they appear to be solid and immovable…” etc.

      Unless they were the former Twin Towers or Building 7, in which case they were so solid and immoveable that, according to Paul Barbara, only explosives could have brought them down.

      Just make it up as you go along, why don’t you? Argue in whichever direction you like, so long as the blame falls upon “approved enemies”. Us sheeple are all thick compared to you so we’ll never notice inconsistencies like the above.

    • Clark

      See, what can be achieved depends entirely upon who is claimed to have done it.

      If Saudi terrorists are claimed to have flown aircraft into buildings, the buildings cannot collapse from that, even if the aircraft were remote controlled by Mossad.

      However, if there is an earthquake, probably the US caused it by bouncing a puny radio beam thousands of miles off the upper atmosphere.

      Obvious.

  • Jim Fuller

    The U.S. is gaining on the Brits in this respect and before long will surpass them. Our police state will be more rigid than their police state. We’re Number One!

  • Tony_0pmoc

    That looked like genuine technical problem – or maybe GCHQ are overloaded at the mo. I do not normally post duplicates, but in this case I do not think my original will appear..

    Ba’al Zevul, You Wrote “Why do we – unspecified – deplore Israel and not IS?”

    a) Who’s we?

    b) Can you please tell me who does not deplore IS?

    I will tell you who does not deplore IS…and that is the people who are Responsible for the Creation and Support of IS.

    The Governments, and Private Companies of

    The USA, The UK, France, Israel,Turkey, Saudi Arabia…and a few others.

    I bet you didn’t know that….and you are even older than me???

    You don’t believe me do you?

    I won’t bore you with The Evidence.

    Tony

    • Paul Barbara

      Right on, Tony. And the US and UK ‘deplore’ IS so much, that two British planes and at least one American helicopter have been shot down in Iraq by government or loyal forces whilst airdropping or supplying arms to IS.
      The fact that within a few weeks of starting their air campaign, Russia took out masses of oil trucks and facilities, sitting duck targets which had somehow been overlooked by the Yanks and ‘Coalition’ air forces for over a year.

  • Dave Lawton

    Ba’al Zevul
    Yeah, yeah. Whatever.
    “But we’re not talking about weather, or ionosphere modification, are we? We’re talking about a bloody huge earthquake, and the brutal facts of physics. Or at least I am…”

    Have you ever had accsess to NATO research papers.It`s worth a look.
    Also explain this.When Concorde was in operation it was causing damage to houses
    in Devon and Cornwall due to a sonic boom. Yet logs show it was over South Africa at the time.
    How could that happen?You won`t find the information on the web for the because it was suppressed.

    • Clark

      Since we “won`t find the information on the web […] because it was suppressed”, either you tell us the physical process involved, or your assertion remains untestable and therefore has to be dismissed.

      • Ba'al Zevul

        Exactly, Clark. Even better would be papers from peer-reviewed journals, but, as you know, all scientists are working for the Rothschilds… BTW, Habbabreak 2 works very well. Even defeats a tinfoil hat, I found…

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Have I ever had access to NATO research papers? Be more specific. It’s quite possible. The title of one supporting what you over-dignify as a case would be helpful. If Concorde wasnt over the West Country when a sonic boom was experienced there, it seems eminently possible to me that what caused the boom was another supersonic aircraft, such as are operated by NATO daily. Are we talking about October 2006, or some other boom? Feel free to tell us wtf you are banging on about. Perhaps you are equating the local, sequential, effects of a travelling atmospheric compression wave on structures well above ground with the widespread, fundamental movement of the earth’s crust experienced in an earthqualke zone? Or are you saying that as Concorde wasn’t there it must have been an earthquake? IGS recorded no earth movement, and while you don’t trust IGS, I do.

      Further reading – anything you can find on Ockham’s Razor.

      • Dave Lawton

        Ba’al Zevul @13:18

        “If Concorde wasnt over the West Country when a sonic boom was experienced there, it seems eminently possible to me that what caused the boom was another supersonic aircraft”

        It was about the 1976.Concorde was over South Africa at the time.It was not another supersonic
        aircraft.That was checked. The sonic wave travelled down a acoustic channel in the upper atmosphere and popped out of a hole over Devon and Cornwall causing damage.As I have said
        this information was suppressed. The investigation was done by H.H.Wills Physics Lab Bristol University.

      • Dave Lawton

        @Clark

        “Devon and Cornwall were on Concorde’s flight path, weren’t they? And rules were introduced so that Concorde would remain subsonic over land. You might find something linked from here:”

        It has nothing to with it being over land or not it is about the acoustic channel in the upper atmosphere and the hole to that channel over Devon and Cornwall. Also the Ministry of Transport at the time was trying to get flights the the US so information about this was suppressed It was a real phenomena a bit like a Mirage but acoustic.

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