The Surveillance State Should Be Targeted on Cows 330

British citizens are now watched by Big Brother more closely than any other people in the world. All activity by British people on the web or on the phone is now monitored and stored. The British government employs more secret police – GCHQ, MI5, MI6 and SO15 – per head of population than Russia. Let me repeat that. The British have more secret police per head of population than Russia. British people are watched on closed circuit television more often than any other people in the world. Under the Prevent programme, “radicals” like me can only speak in universities under monitoring so intense and conditions so onerous that organisers give up, as I can personally witness.

The Prevent strategy provides for informants in every governmental institution who report any expressions of dissent. The UK has effective levels of surveillance – and a far higher volume of intelligence reports on their own citizens – than were ever achieved by the Stasi in Eastern Germany.

But of course, it is all “essential” to protect the citizens from the “threat” of Islamic terrorism, which is a fundamental threat to our existence, right?

So how big a threat is Islamic terrorism?

Since 2000, 57 people have been killed in the UK by Islamic terrorism.
Since 2000, 74 people have been killed in the UK by cattle.
So cows are actually a more potent threat to our personal society that terrorism.

Or more seriously – since 2000, 15,612 people have been murdered in the UK. Of whom only 57 were murdered by terrorists. You have in fact almost a 300 times greater chance of being murdered by someone else than by a terrorist. Indeed you have over 200 times a greater chance of being murdered by your partner, a family member or a close friend, than a terrorist.

The surveillance state has fundamentally changed society in response to a “threat” which is statistically miniscule.

It has greatly increased the power of the state, at a time when the state is both facilitating and protecting the greatest growth in wealth inequality in human history.

That is not a coincidence.

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330 thoughts on “The Surveillance State Should Be Targeted on Cows

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  • giyane


    The pugnacious little troll fedup with the small balls obsession was the first to criticise me for daring to dislike the racket of Prevent which pays imams to recruit young UK Muslims for the USUKIS terrorist fisheries.
    They are not quite as fresh as the wild ones who get brainwashed in Muslim countries, but those of us in the know are concerned about ‘food security’, the possibility that the Syrian army might defeat Al Qaida and Daesh and restore the Muslim countries to legitimate rule.

    Come on pug-face have a good chew.

    • fedup

      Butt hurt giyane moans;

      “The pugnacious little troll fedup with the small balls obsession was the first to criticise me for daring to dislike the racket of Prevent which pays imams to recruit young UK Muslims for the USUKIS terrorist fisheries.”

      Small balls would not have hurt so much giyane/Brother Mohamed* for you to start dissembling the history as you go along. all you have ever done pretend to be a “Muslim” and attack them in any which way that you can alongside your pal anon the proven racist tosser.

      Evidently they (Muslims) give you jobs, and you earn your living from the backs of the Muslims (food security!!! My foot) but nonetheless you have to date; have not had one good word about any of the Muslims. I challenged you to show me a single line of praise for Muslims in your numerous “offerings” to this board and you have singularly failed to do so.

      Funnier thing is now that your cover is blown you and the rest of the troop of monkeys are chasing after me and leave your “contributions” after each comment of mine. The butt hurt massive obviously is too much for the lot of you, which is really side-splitting funny!!

      BTW you better start reading “Prevent” cuz you have not got a foggiest of ideas what you are spewing.
      See how good I am to you, even provide you with the links!

      Now back to your huddle to come up with a new line and the hassle of inventing a new persona!

      * I met a “Brother Mohamed” who was giving the verse and chapter of Quran and was more Muslim than any of the other born Muslims, not convinced I did a bit of checking and “Brother Mohamed” turned out to be an interloping zionist Jew from Gateshead.

  • tfs

    On a slightly related note:

    The New York Times has gone all Conspiracy Theorist on us all.

    Man, them pesky 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists are everywhere……nothing to see, move along.

    Next you’ll be telling me that on the day of 9/11 the government was carrying out wargames and one of the scenarios was planes being hijacked and flown into towers. You might also say ‘shome mistake surely’ that on 7/7, the government was carrying a test of terroists attacking the exact trains as were bombed on that day.

  • Resident Dissident

    “Let me repeat that. The British have more secret police per head of population than Russia.”

    Absolute garbage – what can be stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, but estimates are that the FSB has c200,000 employees and that does not count the border forces (which are part of the FSB), the overseas spies (which are a separate agency), nor all the sleepers who were recruited into the KGB and still retain their ranks so that they can be called up at any time.

  • Loony

    Here is a terrorist

    Of particular interest is that this terrorist was handed his ticket to the UK by the British Ambassador to Ukraine.

    CCTV was involved in the assembly of the prosecution case, although it should be noted that he pleased guilty anyway. Also of note is the fact that even with CCTV the police originally arrested the wrong person.

    Given the time taken to apprehend this terrorist and given his activities pending arrest it is only thanks to the incompetence of the terrorist that many more people were not killed and/or injured.

    Is it not illegal to render assistance to terrorists? Would furnishing them with travel documents not constitute such assistance?

    • Jim

      No, now you’re being silly. You undermine important issues by veering into conspiraloon territory. Can’t you eschew the hyperbole and keep to the serious points you raise about the potential and real abuse of surveillance proliferation.

      • Loony

        What “conspiraloon territory” are you referring to?

        The facts regarding the Lapshyn case are in the public domain, they are undisputed, and are recorded in official UK state documents and records.

        Surely the serious point is that in this instance CCTV did not deter the perpetrator and did not allow the Police to apprehend the perpetrator until he had ample time to carry out a number of attacks. Given his actions and his alleged intelligence it can be reasonably assumed that he never supposed that he would escape without detection.

        Given the paucity of foreign born right wing racially motivated terrorists in the UK the raw odds of such individuals being in personal contact with senior FCO officials must be staggering. I highlight this fact because it is so unusual. I draw no conclusions, hence I am not “veering into conspiraloon terrotory”

        • Jim

          Sorry Loony, you’re saying you draw no conclusions, but the obvious conclusion you’re implying is that this was a State sponsored action. Which in my book is definitely veering into the aforementioned territory!

          • Loony

            I guess my comment was a little too oblique as your obvious conclusion was not the conclusion I had in mind.

            You have people arguing for universal surveillance the benefits of which are questionable at best. On the other hand you have the opportunity and the resources to engage in more targeted activities. It is my assumption that British Ambassadors do not just hand airline tickets to anyone they feel like. I would expect there to be a range of advisers briefing them on those that they engage with.

            As Lapshyn had previously detonated a bomb in his Mothers flat even fairly cursory background checks should have raised certain flags.

            More generally it is well known that Ukraine is home to a significant number of people holding views similar to those held by Lapshyn. It is, after all, official UK government policy to support these people in the Ukraine.This leads to a conclusion namely that the UK is actively involved in creating conditions in which extremists can thrive.

            If concern for public safety was a paramount concern then the UK government would desist from policies which are known to create the conditions in which extremism can thrive. The fact that they do not so is informative as to their true concern for public safety. This in turn leads to the further conclusion that whatever the true reasons for expanding the national security state concern for public safety is not the paramount reason.

          • Jim

            Well we’ll have to agree to disagree then. Where you see the nefarious arm of the British state being involved in the racist murder of an 82 year old man, I see the organs of the British state succeeding in the foiling of a horrendous bomb attack on a Mosque. You see the ambassador being complicit in a murderous State action, and I see fuck-up and fallibility.

        • Jim

          And your important earlier point to Habby regarding the dissent-stifling potential of mass CCTV proliferation is the important one -people’s fear of job-loss or prosecution etc. Not the failure of a camera to stop a violent white supremacist go about his business.

    • Mark Golding

      A real terrorist… Thanks Loony. What is interesting to me at the time(July 2013) is the response of the media in Ukraine which somehow equated to a diametrically opposed British media take if this bomber was Asian. Low key, outright denial or ‘footnoting’ of Lapshyn’s case was the exception rather than the rule in Ukrainian media space. Almost all major publications and TV channels commented extensively on the case, but their reports evidenced distortion, a psychological defense mechanism employed by most of Ukrainian society to evade self-analysis or confronting uncomfortable truths ie by using deception.

      Accordingly a conclusion was reached that Lapshyn could not have committed those crimes and that he must have been framed.

      Intriguingly I know our own home-grown London underground bombers were set-up with a prearranged game plan. Curious…

  • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

    Don’t think the absurdity of it all has been captured by the thread, as the 57 civilians killed in London in July 2005 were the result of the police state working so hard in Operation Crevice that it persuaded the Asnar government in Madrid, seeking re-election, to forget about the Islamic terrorism in Spain, resulting in nearly 200 people being killed there in the March 2004 train bombing and the end of his government, and then the suspects in England finally got the message, and did their assigned dirty work that MI8’s Matthew Gould wanted, catching the securocrats so by surprise that they resorted to killing that poor Brazilian in response.

    • Resident Dissident

      Keeping taking the tablets – I’m afraid this a whole different league of imagination compared with mine of seeing the same two goons following 3 of us including one child around Moscow.

      • fedup

        Will you fucking lay off the tablet crap!!! It is getting a bit wearing every time you lot ie the zionist supremacist shills, run out of options then out comes the meds and the tablets, just in the way of having said the last word*!!!!!

        Taking the piss out of mentally ill and infirm might be your favourite pastime, but it is not everyone’s cup of tea.


        * this is the neurosis of the zionists that means always must have the last word. Mel Brooks take a great pleasure lampooning this particular attribute.

  • Republicofscotland

    “But of course, it is all “essential” to protect the citizens from the “threat” of Islamic terrorism, which is a fundamental threat to our existence, right?
    So how big a threat is Islamic terrorism?
    Since 2000, 57 people have been killed in the UK by Islamic terrorism.”


    Propaganda, and a form of Strategy of Tension, in my opinion are used to frighten the public into believing that, there’s a terrorist with a bomb on every street corner. That inturn allows governments not just Westminster, to beef up surveillance and data collection laws, Big Brother is definitely watching and listening, but not with the publics interests at heart.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      Do you have any evidence (surveys, opinion pills and the like) for believing that the public is in fact frightened by (1) the presence of CCTV and (2) by internet surveillance powers?

      • Republicofscotland


        Good afternoon, if I had any “opinion pills” as you suggest, I’d send you some, and then maybe we’d get an honest opinion from you. ?

  • Resident Dissident

    It is worth noting that the threat from terrorists is taken even more seriously in Russia – security checks are the norm before entering airports, the Metro, shopping centres and many other places. Of course you will hear very little here attacking the logic of such checks. There are of course also plenty of CCTV cameras throughout central Moscow – which of course can conveniently be turned off when Nemtsov is gunned downed just outside the Kremlin walls – but they will of course be seen as good CCTV cameras above and beyond criticism.

    Of course the danger from cows in Russia is so much less since those grazing outside are often chained up so as to prevent theft.

  • Rob Royston

    Have all these 57 deaths been proven in courts of law to have been caused by Islamic Terrorism or did we just get told that it was so?

  • bevin

    “Sorry Loony, you’re saying you draw no conclusions, but the obvious conclusion you’re implying is that this was a State sponsored action. Which in my book is definitely veering into the aforementioned (conspiraloon) territory!”

    So this is how the “my government can do no wrong, (in sharp contradistinction to those foreign governments of which I am instructed to disapprove)” mind set works.

    Jim tells us that, when the evidence points towards a conclusion suggestive of government misdeeds, the evidence must be wrong and we must examine our heads because we are “entering conspiraloon territory.”

    Behind the evident irrationality of this mental procedure is the principle of Big Brother’s inability to do wrong.

    In reality there is not the slightest doubt that the imperialist governments are massively involved in promoting, terrorism; that they recruit, arm, train and offer every kind of support to terrorists. And that, indeed, they boast about doing so and have done so.

    So that what is at issue is not whether, for example, the UK government organises terrorists, because we know that it does and that it has long done so (in Syria for example, Libya and Yemen), but how many freelance terrorist attacks there are. And whether such and such attack in London or Paris or New York or Madrid was state sponsored, or merely carried out by people at one time indoctrinated and armed by the state or was action taken by individuals unconnected with any states.

    The ultimate “conspiraloon” is the person who cannot countenance the notion that his government can do wrong. And that any evidence that it does must be fabricated.

      • bevin

        Remarkable how your mind works: PC Roberts writes an article about the wave of reactionary coups taking place in Latin America- Honduras, Paraguay, Argentina, Venezuela, Ecuador, Brazil- and you light upon his warning, that this is the sort of interference that gives rise to Pol Pot and a school of leaders whose first thought is to insulate their country from imperialist influences, even if, as in the Cambodian nightmare, it involves the massacre of millions.

        And you conclude not just that Roberts is defending Pol Pot and those massacres but that anyone who agrees with Roberts’ views on Latin America is also implicated in them.

        Not that you’re serious: perish the thought! It is all a game that trolls play: a game which involves learning to twist the brain in such a way that it always produces a conclusion acceptable to Big Brother. It’s no wonder that trolls are all for mass surveillance: without it you’d be reduced to telling Big Brother how much you revere him. With the Police State Panopticon you can count on his knowing all, and realising what a grateful, dutiful little brother every troll is .

        As to Shrines to Pol Pot- how often do I have to point out that Pol Pot would have been tried and punished decades ago, when his victims, with the help of the Vietnamese Armed Forces, rose up against him and drove him out of the country? And that it was Reagan and Thatcher, and their satellites in the UN, who insisted on keeping a chair in the General Assembly for his spokesman. Who denounced Vietnam for aggression and re-armed the remnants of his forces. Protected bases on the Thai border which they built for him and warned the Cambodians against attacking.
        Then they actually assisted Mr Pot et al in carrying out raids into Cambodian territory, killing and torturing villagers found to be assisting the government.

        Much more than a mere domestic shrine, it was. And from beginning to end every action of the western governments was defended by those who share your reverence for Big Brothers.
        It can easily be shown, in fact, that the US government played a part in the earliest foundation of the Khmer Rouge because it opposed Prince Sihanouk’s ‘neutralist’ government of which the US very much disapproved.
        And, as to massacres, check it out: the US bombed Cambodia in a manner redolent of its campaigns in Korea, “everything that flies on everything that moves” under the guidance of Kissinger, a criminal whose misdeeds dwarf those of Pot and his gang. And, of course, as Cambodians were being bombed back into the Stone Age, every fan of government, every disciple of Big Brother, reached for his pen or gathered up his keyboard not just to defend the massacres but to denounce anyone lamenting them as communists, useful idiots or agents of Russia, enemies of democracy.
        Yes, Jim, there have always been people like you who defend every tyrant and object to every affront to authority.
        As to black pyjamas they are the garb of peasants all over south east Asia. It is an honour to be thought to be in solidarity with them.

        • Jim

          A long winded denial of Roberts’ evident enthusiasm for ‘measures’ that are necessary for the success of the revolution. Pull the other one Bevin, it’s got bells on. No-ones denying the facts of the Western imperialist agenda or their horrific consequences all over the world, not just Latin America, stop pretending I’m an apologist for it. I’m pointing out that you are an apologist for Roberts and his ‘ill-advised’ opinion piece, to quote the magisterial Davis.

    • Jim

      And by the way, my agreement of the dangers of the proliferation of CCTV and its misuse by State organs is now ‘on the record’.

    • Resident Dissident

      “So this is how the “my government can do no wrong, (in sharp contradistinction to those foreign governments of which I am instructed to disapprove)” mind set works.”

      Why the techniques of putting your own words in inverted commas in order to disparage? This is a technique which I have observed and noted before from Mr Goss. Is it training or an indication of schizophrenia? Either way the mods should deal with as I didn’t think putting words into the mouths of others was allowed.

      • bevin

        Another profound observation.
        Do you really believe that “the mods” should interfere?
        Do you not realise that you are, as always, lamenting here what you see as too much freedom? That you are calling not just for surveillance but for censorship-before publication?
        Truly there are no boundaries to the ambitions of the authoritarian personality. Or, I suspect, the inability to understand the implications of the controls for which you call.

        • Resident Dissident

          Do you really believe that “the mods” should interfere?

          No – but it would be nice to have an explanation or even an apology for your technique of putting words into others mouths don’t you think?

    • Abdussattar Chhipa

      That reflex of funny-hat patriotism is always feigned. It’s just a smokescreen permitting statists to retreat from the facts. Notice how they never explain why facts like those below are false.

      They don’t care how stupid they sound as long as they can stay safely away from the facts.

  • Je

    Leaning on Wikipedia, I get

    MI6 3200
    Mi5 3961
    SO15 1500
    GCHQ 6132
    Total 14793

    UK population 64.1 million
    1 per 4333 people

    Russian FSB 200-300,000
    population 144.2 million
    Take the lower figure 200,000 for FSB
    1 per 721

    I make it six to nine times as many in Russia

    • Resident Dissident

      But Je you forget that Wikipedia is controlled by the Western Security services and only sources like RT may be considered reliable.

      One thing that I find slightly counterfactual is that this website is blocked in Russia but not in the UK.

      • Darth

        Our server logs show incoming traffic from Russia and accessing the website via Russian proxies seems to work fine. What evidence do you have that this site is blocked in Russia?

        • Resident Dissident

          About half a dozen attempts while in Moscow recently – all of them made from Public Wifi – no problems in accessing the BBC or FT, but experienced the same with the Guardian and Independent.

          • Darth

            Generally if this website is not accessible from a public wifi (wherever it is in the world) then it is trying to run the connection through a proxy server which breaks the secure https. This could be for innocent reasons or could be a man in the middle recording traffic. Perhaps what you saw was not evidence of the website being blocked but signs the wifi was shady?

            Also a google search finds no evidence anyone has ever been blocked from the Guardian website in Russia before.

          • Resident Dissident

            So the Wifi on the Moscow Metro and in Gum are both shady – thanks for the confirmation!

            As for the Guardian being blocked perhaps this had something to do with the Panama story which Russian sources reported as coming a number of days in advance.

          • Darth

            Well if it was really shady then they’d just generate fake certs and you’d be none the wiser. Just don’t connect to kgb-honeyspot-1 next time you are in Moscow 🙂 Anyway there are apparently fake cell base stations, let alone wifi, all over London. See

            Mass snooping fake mobile towers ‘uncovered in UK’

            Met Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe told Sky News: “We’re not going to talk about it, because the only people who benefit are the other side, and I see no reason in giving away that sort of thing.”

            Using a vpn when on any public wifi is sensible if practical.

          • Darth

            Incidentally, the Russian Yandex search engine has accessed the site 523 times in the last 24 hours. That puts it only a bit behind google and bing and ahead of twitterbot, applebot and yahoo bot.

    • Herbie

      The UK is hardly on a par with Russia.

      How do the numbers work out when you compare with something actually comparable like the US?

    • fedup

      What about the other 759 agencies that are snooping on the citizens of the UK? There are lies then there are stats!

  • Paul Barbara

    Heartened by the great majority of comments; thing to remember with ‘terrorism’ is ‘Cui bono?’.
    Where to start? Guess I’ll try Loony April 16, 2016 at 20:20
    ‘Could there be a reason why you choose not to illustrate the example of CCTV with an example more grounded in the real world?
    Take for example the atrocity of the London tube and bus bombings. Images of the perpetrators of this act were repeatedly captured on CCTV and yet CCTV neither deterred them from their actions nor enabled the security services to prevent their actions.’
    ‘…Images of the perpetrators of this act were repeatedly captured on CCTV…’??
    Are you not aware that NOT ONE CCTV picture of ANY of the so-called ‘Muslim Terrorists’ on the London Underground on 7/7 were shown? And before I get swamped with ‘Oh yes there was’, there was one picture of one of them coming out of a chemist shop (Boots, I believe) supposedly on the day, but it was Kings Cross main line station. Considering how many times it is blasted out on the Underground PAS about all the CCTV coverage on the Underground is a
    bout ‘keeping us safe’ (as any London Underground user will be well aware of), does not that seem strange? And the THREE CCTV cameras on the blown-up bus, which had been thoroughly serviced the previous weekend, were said to be not working?
    Very similar to the non-existant CCTV of any of the so-called highjackers boarding the ‘Terror Planes’, or of the undercover police officer openly trying to incite the peaceful demonstrators at a London demo to pull apart the metal barriers and throw them at the police (George Galloway brought that up in Parliament, by the way).
    @ Anon1 April 17, 2016 at 07:35
    ‘I know you think we deserve these attacks, Glenn. I get that. Gunning tourists down on a beach in Tunisia. Blowing up a bus or train full commuters. Opening fire into a crowded rock concert. It’s what you do when you’re pissed off about the Iraq War.
    I just don’t know how Belgium fits into your justification for Islamic extremism, or the constant stream of head-choppings, suicide bombings and other such acts of barbarity which are reported from around the world on a daily basis, to such an extent that we are barely moved by them any more. It’s nowt to do with Islam, though, is it, Glenn. Can’t have that.
    Yes I’ve been here long enough to know that you must find a way of blaming ourselves for all these things, Glenn. Excusing Islamic fascism by any means possible is what you do. You’re on the left! ?’
    Belgium? Scene of some of the worst Gladio terrorist attacks? Anon 1, are you aware of the Gladio program, of the ‘Operation Northwoods’ declassified plans, of declassified info on the Mossadegh (Iran) and Arbenz (Guatemala) ‘Regime Changes’? That the ‘Gulf of Tonkin Incident’ never occurred? Of the Pearl Harbour planning signed off by FDR? The Selous Scouts’ ‘pseudo-terrorism? Algerian military putting on false beards, and committing mass atrocities on Algerian civilians, claiming to be Muslim insurgents?
    Check out ‘Operation Gladio’:
    Silvio has good info, so I’ll quote him in full:
    Silvio April 17, 2016 at 04:03
    ‘Nothing like a good “two fer one” deal to get a shopper motivated to pull out the credit card and spend, spend, spend like there is no tomorrow. USA directly and/or indirectly funds and supports the ISIS terrorists, ostensibly only in order to overthrow evil dictator of the day Assad, but at the same time it doesn’t really give a sh!t if some of the same terrorists filter back into Europe to create some Operation Gladio and Strategy of Tension type terroristic mayhem in its NATO allies’ backyards. If it is desirable to have the populace turn to the state to ask for greater security and to willingly give up their civil rights for greater safety and protection, some random acts of terrorism can be good motivators.
    “You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.” Convicted and jailed Gladio terrorist Vincenzo Vinciguerra:
    The West’s Terrorist “Catch and Release” Program
    By Tony Cartalucci
    For fisheries around the world, the concept of “catch and release” allows anglers to enjoy the fishing experience while preserving the numbers and health of fish populations. The concept of “catch and release” for Western security and intelligence agencies appears very similar – to maintain the illusion of counterterrorism operations, while maintaining the numbers and health of terrorist organizations around the world.
    Answering “to what end” the West is allowing terrorists to successfully carry out attacks against Western targets, the answer is quite simple. It allows for the expansion of power and control at home while justifying endless and profitable wars abroad.
    The creation and perpetuation of terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda and ISIS by the West and its allies serve another, admitted purpose. In the 1980′s it was admitted that Al Qaeda was created to wage proxy war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. In 2011, the US and its NATO and Persian Gulf allies used terrorists linked to Al Qaeda in Libya and Syria in an attempt to overthrow their respective governments.
    Today, ISIS serves both as an armed proxy waging full-scale war on the governments of Syria, Iraq, and more indirectly Iran and Russia, as well as a means to threaten and coerce nations around the world.

    Given the extent of historical ‘False Flag’ attacks, do you really believe our modern ‘Leaders’ are not using the same tactics? ‘If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’; an old adage that springs to mind. Just like ‘Divide and Rule’; old as the hills, but still works like clockwork (Sunni/Shia; Catholic/Protestant; ‘Communist’/’Free World’ and Islamists/’Free World’) just a sec while I spew up!); ‘General Public’/’Benefit Scroungers’; ‘General Public’/Immigrants; ‘If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’!

    @ Roderick Russell April 17, 2016 at 00:11
    Re Craig’s comment – “The surveillance state has fundamentally changed society”.
    The surveillance state is about control; it is about subverting the democracy from within. It has changed society from being more or less a democracy into that very dangerous thing – a totalitarian state disguised as a democracy. Continuous snooping means that these secret police agencies (MI5, MI6, QCHQ, etc.) end up knowing everybody’s secrets, and this information can be used to control us – MPs, Ministers, Judges, Journalists, or those who appoint them. Literally anybody of political influence.
    There are very few people (and even fewer politicians) who don’t have some cobweb in their closet that they can be blackmailed on. And if blackmail isn’t sufficient, then, as I write about, they can be subjected to as Stasi-style persecution designed, in the words of GCHQ, to to achieve “Physiological”, “Cognitive” and “Affective Stress” in their target victims using methods designed, again in GCHQ’s own words, to “Disrupt”, Destroy”, “Diffuse” and “Discredit” their victims.
    Yes, the Spy agencies have fundamentally changed society. They have taken our democracy away from us.’

    Spot on there, Rod. I’ve been a target of ‘Stasi-style persecution designed, in the words of GCHQ, to to achieve “Physiological”, “Cognitive” and “Affective Stress” in their target victims using methods designed, again in GCHQ’s own words, to “Disrupt”, Destroy”, “Diffuse” and “Discredit” their victims….’ for over twenty years, and ongoing.

    @ lysias April 16, 2016 at 23:39
    ‘Why should we be worried about Russian espionage, now that Russia is no longer Communist, and indeed is more Christian these days than the countries of the West?’

    Whilst many of our Western ‘Leaders’ (puppets forced upon us by the Corporations and Banksters) claim to be ‘Christian’, they are of course no such thing. Many are Luciferian, like their ‘Puppet Masters’.
    I have never been a ‘Communist’, and have been shunned by many ‘Communists’ with whom I had common cause (Human Rights in Latin America etc.), but I greatly respect and admire Putin (who certainly is no angel, but who like JFK was/is the best by far of a rotten lot).
    Brought up as a Catholic, I now regard the Vatican as a cesspit; the last decent Pope, JPI, was murdered after 33 days, the night before/early morning of the day he was to announce a massive ‘New broom’ cleansing of the Vatican Augean Stables. I now classify myself as a ‘non-denominational Christian’.

    @ Mark Golding April 17, 2016 at 08:55
    ‘These ‘criminal activities’ Ruth are mostly a cabal of ‘zombies’ who have ‘crossed’ a line between life and death. It is possible to go back but it could take a billion years in human terms. Personally I would not want to squander that amount of time and that huge amount of energy to convert and transform back to matter.’

    My take on it is they are ‘human’, but have ‘sold their souls’ in a Faustian pact with the ‘Lord of this World’, as Jesus reffered to the Devil on at least three occassions.
    A part of this is, if they were not sociopaths before, they have to become one (‘Cremation of Care’ ‘Ceremony’ at Bohemian Grove). And Aaron Russo’s account of what Nick Rockefeller told him when he tried to recruit Russo into the CFR is hugely instructive of what ‘THEY’ have planned for humanity, and of his own sociopathy (‘Why do you care about these people? Look after yourself, you’re family’):
    see ‘Aaron Russo – Historic Interview’:

    @susan April 17, 2016 at 01:59
    Speaking during a virtual appearance in Vancouver last week, Edward Snowden identified the real reasons for surveillance:
    1. Diplomatic manipulation,
    2. Economic espionage,
    3. Social control

    Spot on.

    @ Anon1 April 16, 2016 at 21:32

    ‘…You can make a low-end estimate if you like. The fact remains that dozens of terrorist plots have been foiled that had they taken place would put the UK on an “Advise against all travel” list….’

    Do you read the Guardian? How about this:
    ‘Fake terror plots, paid informants: the tactics of FBI ‘entrapment’ questioned:

    Hasn’t it occurred to you that the UK, Europe and other countries are highly likely to be doing exactly the same things, and for the same reasons?

    • Resident Dissident

      “Heartened by the great majority of comments; thing to remember with ‘terrorism’ is ‘Cui bono?’.”

      To which the answer is that as well as the terrorists we can now add Paul Barbara as it allows him to relieve a lot of personal tension by releasing a big load of conspiratorial diarrhoea.

      You must be feeling very relieved now Paul after that last dump.

      • bevin

        Talking of schizophrenia, RD, can you see any contradiction between the insolence with which you attack Mr Barbara and the prissy little whine that you appended, mere minutes before, to my comment?

        • Resident Dissident

          Don’t worry Bevin you’ll soon collapse under the weight of your own internal contradictions and especially the one about not interfering in the affairs of other countries (unless of course they are a western democracy).

        • Resident Dissident

          Insolence does of course suggest a certain hierarchy – the old Leninists are of course rather keen on hierarchy.

  • Republicofscotland

    Why would Saudi Arabia feel aggrieved at being blamed for producing the 9/1q bombers, when all official outlets in the USA, have already concluded that, this was the case

    “Saudi Arabia appears to be blackmailing the US, saying it would sell off American assets worth a 12-digit figure sum in dollars if Congress passes a bill allowing the Saudi government to be held responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks.”

    • Paul Barbara

      The Saudi ‘link’ is like the attack on the ‘USS Liberty’; the ‘Perps’ are held together by mutual responsibility with the authors of the plan. In short, a total ‘Red Herring’, brought out and touched up to ‘muddy the waters’ ‘cos too many people (from the PTB’s point of view; from those of us that know the truth, it’s still far too few people) are, if not sussing out the real perps, at least getting highly suspicious.

    • CanSpeccy

      The Saudis can’t denying the identity of the supposed 9/11 hijackers. What they fear is that the government of SA will be held responsible for 9/11, whereas responsibility actually lies with the Bush/Cheney administration.

      Saudi participation in 9/11 was surely either to assist in a US false flag terrorism op, or because the US exploited a Saudi-originated terrorist op to serve its own ends.

      Either way, the US now threatens to place direct blame for 9/11 on the Saudis, thereby diverting blame from the Bush/Cheney Administration while further damaging SA’s already abysmally low moral standing in the world.

      Since the Saudis cannot successfully wage war on the US, they are threatening the US with financial mayhem and perpetually low oil prices that will totally destroy the US oil fracking industry.

      • Resident Dissident

        “Either way, the US now threatens to place direct blame for 9/11 on the Saudis,”


  • Republicofscotland

    “London Mayor Boris Johnson believes any US support for the anti-Brexit campaign would be “bizarre” and hypocritical, given the US “wouldn’t dream” of diluting their own authority.”

    “It is expected that US president Barack Obama will use his April 21 visit to Downing Street to recommend the UK stay within the European bloc.
    However, Conservative MP and Brexit campaigner Johnson has criticized the suggestion, saying that Obama advocating an anti-Brexit vote in the June 23 referendum would be “hypocrisy.”

    Oh Boris, you don’t know the meaning of hypocrisy, its as bizarre, as say David Cameron prompting Barack Obama, to ask Scotland to remain in the Union, or, David Cameron hawking himself around Europe asking EU foreign ministers and heads of state to say publicly Scotland would be kicked out of the EU, if they gained independence.

    The 51st better do as Obama and the US say or the “Special Friendship” might be so special afterall. Oh, and they’ll charge us more for servicing their over priced and over here, obsolete nuclear weapons.

  • Republicofscotland

    Zionist, and former head of the BBC Danny Cohen, surfaces again.

    “Cohen, a prominent figure in London’s J**ish community, joins a chorus of Zionist lobbyists within Labour who claim that the party is tolerating “anti-Semitic” behaviour.

    On 21 March Michael Levy threatened to resign from Labour unless Corbyn makes a speech denouncing “anti-Semitism” immediately.

    Levy is a staunch Zionist and was principal fundraiser for war crimes suspect Tony Blair’s New Labour Party.

    In the Zionist lexicon, any criticism of Israel or of any public figure who happens to be J**ish is defined as “anti-Semitic”, irrespective of the merits of the criticism.

    Jeremy Corbyn is a longstanding campaigner for justice for the Palestinian people. His landslide victory in the Labour Party’s leadership election in September 2015 was a humiliating defeat for the Zionist lobby, in the form of the Labour Friends of Israel group, which up to that moment had been in complete control of Labour’s leadership. It is this, rather than any “anti-Semitism” in Labour, that is rattling the likes of Cohen and Levy.”

      • Republicofscotland


        Your second point first, if I may, yes Sandra White is indeed standing again, I for one thoroughly oppose anti-semitism, no matter what party they represent,.

        With regards to your second point, I cannot say definitely that, anti-semitism lurks within the Labour ranks. I do however know that Jeremy Corbyn is a life long supporter of the Palestinian people, in the shape of peace and justice. That may upset some within the Labour ranks, especially those Labour, Friends of Israel.

        • Resident Dissident

          It speaks volumes that Sandra White can get on the candidates list after a police warning and apologising to Nicola Sturgeon for promoting anti-Semitism but that our own Craig is barred don’t you think.

          I am glad that you can see a boundary between anti-Semitism and anti Zionism, although a little more definition might be helpful. Although there are many who complain about others not knowing the difference they always seem to have a marked reluctance to explain where the boundary lies or to pull up those who cross it.

          • Republicofscotland

            Well RD, apparently the offending article was tweeted in error, and Sandra White has apologised, according to your link. I see a petition has been started to have her removed, though it hasn’t reached it goal yet. I would save it hasn’t really stirred the publics imagination yet.

            RD says a “little more definition” here goes. I’m sure you’ll correct me if I stray off the path.

            Zionism, in my opinion is a creation mainly by athestic J**ws, conjured up by Theodore Herzel, who thought J**ws were a nation and not a religious group. The argument unfolded, that Europe was predominantly anti-semitic, and that J**ws had to remove themselves from Europe, and find and create their own nation state.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          I’m told Mr Corbyn has also been a life-long supporter of the UK leaving the Common Market/EC/EU.

          Until now, that is…. 🙂

          • Republicofscotland


            Yes, so I hear, but what has one thing to do with the other, unless of course you’re claiming the EU, is anti-semitic? Surely not? ?

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            No. I’m suggesting that just as Mr Corbyn’s position on the merits of EU membership appears to have suddenly changed, so might his position of support for the Palestinian side in the ME conflict.

            Apologies for having been too subtle for some.

          • Republicofscotland


            I thought a wiley old fox such as yourself, would’ve understood that politicians change their opinions, as often as Israeli’s change Palestinian houses into illegal settlements.

            No need to be subtle, I prefer frankness, though, I fear that moral ethos is, well beyond you. ?

  • Republicofscotland

    Here’s one for the establishment boys and girls, it keeps them happy.

    Russia is selling billions of dollars in weapons to both Armenia and Azerbaijan, to fuel the bloody conflict in Nagorno Karabakh.

    Anything the West can do, so can the East, Putin isn’t any better than Western hypocrites, not by a long shot.

    • Mark Golding

      No better in a perfect world Ros – Billions of dollars are up for grabs in exchange for slingshots and Putin used the barter leverage to negotiate the recent ceasefire. Had those green-backs gone to the West the ball-game would be an inferno, a massacre with Azerbaijan morphing into a Libyan rubric IS (Islamism contrived) terror tramping ground with ‘The Increment’ reporting back to agent Cameron to boot.

      I guess not.

  • Paul Barbara

    @ Republicofscotland April 17, 2016 at 15:46
    ‘Why would Saudi Arabia feel aggrieved at being blamed for producing the 9/1q bombers, when all official outlets in the USA, have already concluded that, this was the case
    “Saudi Arabia appears to be blackmailing the US, saying it would sell off American assets worth a 12-digit figure sum in dollars if Congress passes a bill allowing the Saudi government to be held responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks.”

    Probably for the same reason OBL was; they, and he, were being framed.
    ‘Hijackers Passports were Issued by CIA – US Consulate Whistleblower’:

    ‘…15 of the 19 did not qualify for a visa, yet they were granted one anyway.
    10 of the individuals entered through the very agency Mr. Springmann once headed and then spent so much energy trying to expose.
    Springmann went public (after internal efforts failed) to expose the State Dept/CIA conduiting terrorists into the USA. It occurs to me that there probably really will be a reinvestigation of 911 and that those involved could actually be taken to trial and brought to justice. I can feel my country beginning to implode because when the you know what really hits the fan, I do not think that the world will forgive us.
    He wasn’t small change in the State Dept.
    Springman formerly headed the American visa bureau in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. The BBC quotes Springmann talking about the frustrations he encountered while trying to keep the visa issuance above the board:

    “In Saudi Arabia I was repeatedly ordered by high level State Dept officials to issue visas to unqualified applicants. These were, essentially, people who had no ties either to Saudi Arabia or to their own country. I complained bitterly at the time there. I returned to the US, I complained to the State Dept here, to the General Accounting Office, to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security and to the Inspector General’s office. I was met with silence.”
    – BBC News Source: “former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah is Michael Springman”. ……’

    • Republicofscotland

      Paul Barbara.

      Thank you for that info, Paul, I’m pleased to say I’m already clued up as they say, as to the real perpetrators, of the 9/11 event…cue the establishments boys, and girls falling over themselves looking for a direct explanation. ?

      My point I made, in my 15.46pm comment:

      “Why would Saudi Arabia feel aggrieved at being blamed for producing the 9/1q bombers, when all official outlets in the USA, have already concluded that, this was the case”

      Was a rhetorical question

  • Republicofscotland

    I wonder what the establishment boys and girls make of this?

    “Haaretz reported last week that the Israeli Supreme Court decided to uphold the denial of a Freedom of Information request to make public documents about Israeli ‘defense’ exports to Rwanda at the time of the 1994 genocide in that country.

    In 2014, attorney Eitay Mack and Prof. Yair Auron submitted a request to the Defense Ministry under the Freedom of Information Law, asking for details of Israeli arms exports to Rwanda between 1990 and 1995. In 1994, hundreds of thousands of Tutsi minority Rwandans were slaughtered by the Hutu majority during Rwanda’s civil war.

    Israel’s Defense Ministry refused the request, saying this information “was not to be divulged.”

    Mack and Auron appealed to the Supreme Court who unanimously rejected their appeal. The Court held that; “We found that under the circumstances the disclosure of the information sought does not advance the public interest claimed by the appellants to the extent that it takes preference and precedence over the claims of harm to state security and international relations.”

    Re link, Haaretz, with held the story, unless I subscribed, which I’m not prepared to do.

  • Republicofscotland

    “Islamic State and other terrorist groups do not represent an existential threat to Europe, unlike Moscow and perceived aggression on its part, claimed foreign minister Witold Waszczykowski.”



    Says I completely dumbstruck, if that is indeed the case, then why hasn’t someone in authority, told this to Barack Obama, David Cameron, and Francois Hollande, and the most of all why hasn’t anyone in a ministerial position, or any security service, informed the MSM, who’ve pushed the “terrorist agenda” non-stop for years now.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      I suspect the Polish Foreign Minister is making that point from a specifically Polish perspective, on the basis of (1) Poland’s geographical position and previous Russian behaviour, (2) Poland is accepting no Syrian, Iraki or Afghanistani refugees and (3) Poland has no resident Moslem communities to provide a breeding ground for potential terrorists.

      • Republicofscotland


        So you suspect, you’re not sure, thank you.

        As for your assertation that Poland has no resident Muslim communities.

        This from Wiki:

        “Currently the total number of Muslims in Poland is estimated at around 31,000, most of whom are Sunni.”

        More than enough to provide a breeding ground, wouldn’t you say?

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          No, not enough. Muchh easier to keep an eye on than the millions of Muslims in the various countries of Western Europe.

          Wouldn’t you agree?

          • Republicofscotland


            I’m afraid I can’t quite agree.

            It all rather depends on, the nature of the group, are they radical, ( I suppose in your eyes they’re all salivating radicals) or are they to a greater extent benign.

  • Silvio

    I think the following article makes a good point (embedded links to sources in the original):

    The 9/11 Commission: A Victim of Cheney’s Torture Program

    In the run up to the Iraq war – and for several years thereafter – the program of torture carried out by the Bush administration was specifically specifically aimed at establishing a false justification for war. Dick Cheney is the guy who pushed for torture, pressured the Justice Department lawyers to write memos saying torture was legal, and made the pitch to Congress justifying torture. (The former director of the CIA said Cheney oversaw American torture policies).

    The type of torture used by the U.S. on the Guantanamo suspects is of a special type. Senator Levin revealed that the the U.S. used Communist torture techniques specifically aimed at creating false confessions (see this, this, this and this).

    According to NBC News:

    Much of the 9/11 Commission Report was based upon the testimony of people who were tortured

    At least four of the people whose interrogation figured in the 9/11 Commission Report have claimed that they told interrogators information as a way to stop being “tortured.”

    One of the Commission’s main sources of information was tortured until he agreed to sign a confession that he was not even allowed to read

    The 9/11 Commission itself doubted the accuracy of the torture confessions, and yet kept their doubts to themselves

    In fact, the 9/11 Commission Report was largely based on third-hand accounts of what tortured detainees said, with two of the three parties in the communication being government employees.

    As the 9/11 Commission Report itself states:

    Chapters 5 and 7 rely heavily on information obtained from captured al Qaeda members. A number of these “detainees” have firsthand knowledge of the 9/11 plot. Assessing the truth of statements by these witnesses-sworn enemies of the United States-is challenging. Our access to them has been limited to the review of intelligence reports based on communications received from the locations where the actual interrogations take place. We submitted questions for use in the interrogations, but had no control over whether, when, or how questions of particular interest would be asked. Nor were we allowed to talk to the interrogators so that we could better judge the credibility of the detainees and clarify ambiguities in the reporting.

    More at:

    I understand Craig witnessed at first hand, while serving as an ambassador in Uzbekistan, the unreliability of testimony obtained by torture (along with the willingness of the British and US governments to accept it, because it supported the narrative that they were propagating at the time).

  • Paul Barbara

    @ CanSpeccy April 17, 2016 at 16:35
    ‘….Since the Saudis cannot successfully wage war on the US, they are threatening the US with financial mayhem and perpetually low oil prices that will totally destroy the US oil fracking industry.’
    I believe the Saudis are taking their orders from the US re the rock-bottom oil prices: again, the old question ‘Cui bono?.
    Look at the damage it has done to the Russian, Venezuelan and Iranian oil industries.
    Sure, it hits some US and Western interests, and indeed Saudi interests, but not so devastatingly as it hits their ‘enemies’.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      They would do the same to us if they could, Barbara.

      Preferable to a shooting war, surely……..or perhaps you disagree?

      • Alan

        “They would do the same to us if they could”

        Down your way, on Salisbury Plain, the people of Imber did their duty to support WW2, by evacuating their village.

        Just like you, those schmucks thought they could trust the British Government, Habbabkuk. Don’t worry, they will do the same to you if they can get away with it.

        • Alan

          Meanwhile Habbabkuk, up my way, a really smart guy named Thomas Paine was born in Thetford. He knew the British Government only too well.

          These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like Hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated.

          “Sunshine Patriot”? Surely that means you, Habbabkuk?

  • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

    Alte Kamaraden…..

    Where have “Macky”, “Monteverdi”, “N_”, “Passerby” and “Chris Roberts” or was it “Rogers” – anyway, the Hong Kong exile) disappeared to?

    I especially miss Mack’s elegant smileys and exclamations marks.

      • Node

        ” Home invasions and abductions of children and other youngsters

        Israeli troops frequently invade Palestinian homes (often at dead of night) and abductions of Palestinian minors are commonplace. Israeli soldiers often vandalise the interiors of Palestinian homes being raided and frequently terrorise children and other minors with threats. Youngsters abducted by Israeli soldiers are often blindfolded and their wrists tied behind their backs. Many children are illegally taken to prison in Israel, where more terror is practised against them, such as solitary confinement and shackling in painful positions for long periods. The majority of these children are detained inside Israel in violation of Article 76 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

        This inhumane treatment of children prompted an Investigation and Report by UNICEF in February 2013. The report found that each year approximately 700 Palestinian children aged 12 to 17, mainly boys, are arrested, interrogated and held captive by Israeli army, police and security agents. The majority are charged with throwing stones, an offence that carries a maximum penalty of ten years’ imprisonment, or 20 years if thrown at a moving vehicle (six months maximum for a juvenile, 12-13 years). The usual process, as described in the UNICEF Report, is for the child to be aggressively awakened in the middle of the night by armed soldiers, and forcibly brought to an interrogation centre, tied and blindfolded, sleep-deprived and brought to a state of extreme fear. The transfer can take up to an entire day. Interrogation takes place in a police station (without a lawyer or family member present) using a mix of intimidation and threats. Child prisoners have been threatened with death, physical violence, solitary confinement and sexual assault, against themselves or a family member. Most children confess at the end of such interrogation. Some children have been held in solitary confinement, for a period ranging from two days up to one month before the court hearing. Children are generally brought before a military court in leg chains and shackles, wearing prison uniform. Most see their lawyers for the first time when they are brought to the court. UNICEF found that the practices described are in violation of international law.”

        • Jim

          Sounds like Northern Ireland during the early ’70s. Cue the Wolfe Tones: “Armoured cars and tanks and guns, came to take away our sons, but every man must stand behind the men behind the wire…”

      • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

        Do you mean on her new hunting ground (the Lifeboat news or whatever it’s called)?

    • fedup

      Passerby is busy making oodles of money and has not the time to sail his boat never mind to afford the time to comment here, unlike yourself who is on the board 24/7/52.

      BTW you have not been playing where do you live game, Resident Snitch?

      Although I must point out; you are even crap at snitching and that is why you need to CC every other spy agency you can find. Somebody is going to pay attention to your sick musings!

      Now go write up some more reports and send through.

  • Rose

    Well the buggers are certainly working hard today. Perhaps Surveillance and Patrol Inc pay double time on Sundays.

  • Paul Barbara

    @ Republicofscotland April 17, 2016 at 16:29
    ‘Here’s one for the establishment boys and girls, it keeps them happy.
    Russia is selling billions of dollars in weapons to both Armenia and Azerbaijan, to fuel the bloody conflict in Nagorno Karabakh.
    Anything the West can do, so can the East, Putin isn’t any better than Western hypocrites, not by a long shot.

    A good point, one which I was unaware of, but I’m sure the Russkis have a strong self-interest in calming the situation, rather than exacerbating the conflict, and will have brought very powerful diplomacy to bear in creating a solution; unlike the West, who unashamedly sell arms to all parties in many conflicts, with the express purpose of making money and enjoying the spectacle of ‘others’ slaughtering each other; fewer ‘useless eaters’, they would say. Russia has strategic interests in both Azerbaijan and Armenia, and their interests are not served by the conflict.
    And a very good reply, by Mark:

    @ Mark Golding April 17, 2016 at 18:05
    ‘No better in a perfect world Ros – Billions of dollars are up for grabs in exchange for slingshots and Putin used the barter leverage to negotiate the recent ceasefire. Had those green-backs gone to the West the ball-game would be an inferno, a massacre with Azerbaijan morphing into a Libyan rubric IS (Islamism contrived) terror tramping ground with ‘The Increment’ reporting back to agent Cameron to boot.
    I guess not.’

    By the way, here is something I was aware of, but many won’t be:
    ”A deep-rooted hatred of the British’: How Israelis ‘armed junta’ in Falklands conflict..

    Probably not a topic much discussed in the various UK-based ‘Friends of Israel’ associations, I imagine.

    • giyane

      Oh so those exocets and other junta weapons were going to be pointed at Whitehall then?
      If they were, they missed.

  • Paul Barbara

    A slight amendment to Craig’s title of this thread has popped into my noggin: ‘The Surveillance State Should Be Targeted on Cows on Broomsticks’; unfortunately, of course, most of them work in tandem with the PTB (like their counterparts, the Freemasons – check out the links between the ‘Craft’ and the ‘Square’).

  • Mark Golding

    Modern torture is a subtle business, the aim being to elicit compliance without (curiously)unnerving the interrogator or (surprisingly) causing extreme pain which may only make the victim senseless or comatose (and vomit).

    Modern torture methods in Britain (Castlereagh: Ballykerry: Other[secret]):

    Isolation: Victim becomes dependent on interrogator. Interrogator develops social support. Victim is ‘broken down’ with self concern.

    Monopolisation of perception: Intense white light in small white room, restrictive movement, ‘white’ food – Eliminates competing stimuli.

    Induced debilitation, exhaustion: induced illness, exposure, sleep deprivation, starvation – Weakens ability to resist.

    Threats: death, rape, family threats, mysterious changes of treatment, endless isolation – Cultivates anxiety & despair.

    Indulgences: rewards, tantilising, promises – Provides positive motivation for compliance – Hinders adjustment to deprivation.

    Omnipotence: severe confrontations demonstrating complete control of over victims fate – suggests futility of resistance.

    Enforcement: enforcing trivial demands – develops habit of compliance.

    Degradation: filthy surroundings, no toilet, insults & taunts, denial of privacy – reduces prisoner to animal level concerns, self esteem.

    • Resident Dissident

      Hardly modern torture – if Mr Golding bothers to read Koestler or Solzhenitsyn he will find out that nearly all the techniques have been practicised for sometime by Mr Putin’s long time employer.

    • Jim

      Hi Mark, I agree with Res Dis that they are hardly new techniques, but am genuinely interested in any more detailed info you could post on their use in Northern Ireland by the Brits. I’m getting tired of people insinuating I’m some apologist for British or ‘Western’ state power.

      • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

        Don’t let the Dingbats and Obsessives on here get you down, Jim.

        Nothing other 150% loyalty to their strange ideas will exempt you from their criticism.

        They have thin skins, you see, and were not used to be being contradicted, exposed and mocked.

        As an example, pls refer to Barbara’s offering at 21h44 (above) – observe how he manages to slip in a quick reference to the Freemasons, one of his obsessions! Irrelevant, stupid, but the main thing is he managed to splatter it into the thread. 🙂

      • Mark Golding

        Hardly new I agree Jim albeit ‘present day’ and the thrust of the index shown in my post was an emphasis on compliance rather than the excessive pain of smashed teeth, pulled fingernails, burns and boiling:

        which Craig’s undeniable evidence proves was witnessed by the CIA in Uzbekistan and censored by British authorities. I know a ‘watered down’ list of these ‘present day’ techniques will be used in an attempt to mitigate MI6 complicity in any consequential trial in a court of law; an abominable attempt to justify ‘intelligence gathering’ in the face of what will be described as terrorist mass murder.

        • Jim

          The link puts me in mind of the sweet and cuddly Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, erstwhile protégé of the charming Vlad. The world is such a lovely place!

  • Tony_0pmoc

    He gets in Time Magazine and many others…He tells them his name…but basically he hasn’t got time for you…and he does it for months..He is an unpaid English volunteer…

    And then The French Arrest him and smash the place to fck…and all the tents on fire…

    He phones home and he speaks to his Mum..”I am in jail..they have arrested me…they have accused me of being a member of some organization,,who I have never heard of.”

    “Don’t be Ridiculous”

    They let him out after 3 days.

    What a lovely boy. We know his Mum.

    That’s Calais for you.


    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      Yes, that’s Calais for you.

      Perhaps the little Fecker should keep his charity work for the UK and not stick his nose into other people’s affairs.

      There are enough French charity workers and volonteers in Calais without needing imports from the UK.

      Sorry to appear unsympathetic, Tony, but I know you like telling it – and hearing it – as it is, don’t you.

      Au revoir et à bientôt!

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